4 weeks to winter

Gas pipelines to Germany blown up by UK/US to stop negotiations.

You know, fucking off is still a viable option for you, wookie.

So why not give it a try?

Temp London Saturday 17 / 7 deg

The rains have started in ukraine meaning everything becomes mud

Leopard / Abram tanks are heavier which means they will sink in the mud.

The russians built their tanks with this situation in mind, their tanks are lighter – they won’t sink.

Iranian drones (?) are being used to strike targets across Ukraine.

There is talk of ukraine building a dirty bomb and blowing up plutonium to spread radioactivity across Russia (?)

Counter strike nukes used near Western borders to spread radioactivity deep into western Europe, will happen when the winds blow west.

Wookie’s work in Ukraine. A mass grave of murdered civilians in Bucha.

Similar atrocities are turning up in the newly liberated regions.

wookiemeister said:

The rains have started in ukraine meaning everything becomes mud

Leopard / Abram tanks are heavier which means they will sink in the mud.

The russians built their tanks with this situation in mind, their tanks are lighter – they won’t sink.

Iranian drones (?) are being used to strike targets across Ukraine.

There is talk of ukraine building a dirty bomb and blowing up plutonium to spread radioactivity across Russia (?)

Counter strike nukes used near Western borders to spread radioactivity deep into western Europe, will happen when the winds blow west.

Sweetie, Ukraine don’t own or operate a single NATO tank. They don’t need to now. They have just been re-supplied with Russian tanks (and other vehicles) thanks to the Russian troops packing their daks and leaving all their equipment behind them. The last 2-3 weeks Russia have supplied more equipment and ammo to Ukraine than NATO has done in the last 6 months.

Recent round-up of wookie’s rapes, tortures and murders in Ukraine:

UN investigator outlines evidence of Russian war crimes in liberated areas of Ukraine

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/un-investigator-outlines-evidence-of-russian-war-crimes-in-liberated-areas-of-ukraine

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

The rains have started in ukraine meaning everything becomes mud

Leopard / Abram tanks are heavier which means they will sink in the mud.

The russians built their tanks with this situation in mind, their tanks are lighter – they won’t sink.

Iranian drones (?) are being used to strike targets across Ukraine.

There is talk of ukraine building a dirty bomb and blowing up plutonium to spread radioactivity across Russia (?)

Counter strike nukes used near Western borders to spread radioactivity deep into western Europe, will happen when the winds blow west.

Sweetie, Ukraine don’t own or operate a single NATO tank. They don’t need to now. They have just been re-supplied with Russian tanks (and other vehicles) thanks to the Russian troops packing their daks and leaving all their equipment behind them. The last 2-3 weeks Russia have supplied more equipment and ammo to Ukraine than NATO has done in the last 6 months.

Get educated party pants

We are being lied to.

Wookiemeister raped and tortured children in Ukraine:

Russian troops raped and tortured children in Ukraine, U.N. panel says

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-troops-raped-tortured-children-ukraine-un-panel-says-rcna49168

So just how fucked up are you, wookie?

Have a look in the mirror at your smirking fucking war criminal face.

wookiemeister said:

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

The rains have started in ukraine meaning everything becomes mud

Leopard / Abram tanks are heavier which means they will sink in the mud.

The russians built their tanks with this situation in mind, their tanks are lighter – they won’t sink.

Iranian drones (?) are being used to strike targets across Ukraine.

There is talk of ukraine building a dirty bomb and blowing up plutonium to spread radioactivity across Russia (?)

Counter strike nukes used near Western borders to spread radioactivity deep into western Europe, will happen when the winds blow west.

Sweetie, Ukraine don’t own or operate a single NATO tank. They don’t need to now. They have just been re-supplied with Russian tanks (and other vehicles) thanks to the Russian troops packing their daks and leaving all their equipment behind them. The last 2-3 weeks Russia have supplied more equipment and ammo to Ukraine than NATO has done in the last 6 months.

Get educated party pants

We are being lied to.

Cunt, I am educated, arrogant and drunk. So go fuck yourslef.

Gulf war 1991

Saddam has been supplied with vast arsenals of weapons. Thatcher sends David mellor to Iraq to sell weapons to boost flagging economy. Britain has been hit with a decade of stagflation, new taxes ( VAT). Saddam is supplied with equipment to build chemical weapons. Saddam is the good guy – he is fighting Iran. Iran and Iraq fight a war with chemical weapons and long range missiles. Things take a turn when the Americans no longer need him and need a new enemy and a new war. They tell Kuwait to step up oil production affecting Saddam’s repayments. 150,000 Iraqi troops are massed on the border – this occupies perhaps 1 inch high columns in the paper – I know, I saw it.

Gulf war 1991 starts , American forces are ordered out of Iraq so Saddam can pay his bills. For the next ten years Iraq is systematically bombed. The RAF runs out of targets and just start bombing random walking around the hills ( shepherds).

2003 America attacks Iraq again and stays bombing. It’s admitted that the american attacks killed at least 500,000 children. Depleted uranium still haunts iraq to this day. The American gov is still there.

I’m not threatening to kill you, wookie.

I’m threatening to reveal the name, address and face of the man who wanks over the atrocities of his hero, Putin.

You do that of your own choice, and you should be proud to be revealed as that man.

Bubblecar said:

I’m not threatening to kill you, wookie.

I’m threatening to reveal the name, address and face of the man who wanks over the atrocities of his hero, Putin.

You do that of your own choice, and you should be proud to be revealed as that man.

Its called “doxing”

As I said bubbles I don’t care one way or the other.

Very often I’ve found it’s been some hidden hand that’s guided me out of danger or helped someone who is in a tight spot – I put my trust in that power whatever it is ( people trying to hurt me always seem to suffer some crazy shit – whether they learn from the experience I have no idea).

wookiemeister said:

Bubblecar said:

I’m not threatening to kill you, wookie.

I’m threatening to reveal the name, address and face of the man who wanks over the atrocities of his hero, Putin.

You do that of your own choice, and you should be proud to be revealed as that man.

Its called “doxing”

As I said bubbles I don’t care one way or the other.

Very often I’ve found it’s been some hidden hand that’s guided me out of danger or helped someone who is in a tight spot – I put my trust in that power whatever it is ( people trying to hurt me always seem to suffer some crazy shit – whether they learn from the experience I have no idea).

Aye, “doxing” is sometimes a valuable public service.

You “don’t care one way or another” so let’s get you identified.

At any rate

The rains are falling across ukraine

This changes the equation, major ground based operations will effectively cease.

One opinion I’ve heard is that the russians on the front where most activity is happening are simply hunkering down and waiting for the rains to fall and the mud to stop further advance.

Once the temperatures fall the ground hardens and all those new recruits being gathered now will be used to bolster and perhaps be part of an advance west.

Generally the russians are going after the productive parts of ukraine – the agricultural parts that are useful.

Bubblecar said:

wookiemeister said:

Bubblecar said:

I’m not threatening to kill you, wookie.

I’m threatening to reveal the name, address and face of the man who wanks over the atrocities of his hero, Putin.

You do that of your own choice, and you should be proud to be revealed as that man.

Its called “doxing”

As I said bubbles I don’t care one way or the other.

Very often I’ve found it’s been some hidden hand that’s guided me out of danger or helped someone who is in a tight spot – I put my trust in that power whatever it is ( people trying to hurt me always seem to suffer some crazy shit – whether they learn from the experience I have no idea).

Aye, “doxing” is sometimes a valuable public service.

You “don’t care one way or another” so let’s get you identified.

Well

Don’t blame me for what happens next

Shrugs shoulders , its out of my hands now.

wookiemeister said:

Bubblecar said:

wookiemeister said:

Its called “doxing”

As I said bubbles I don’t care one way or the other.

Very often I’ve found it’s been some hidden hand that’s guided me out of danger or helped someone who is in a tight spot – I put my trust in that power whatever it is ( people trying to hurt me always seem to suffer some crazy shit – whether they learn from the experience I have no idea).

Aye, “doxing” is sometimes a valuable public service.

You “don’t care one way or another” so let’s get you identified.

Well

Don’t blame me for what happens next

Shrugs shoulders , its out of my hands now.

Oooh, now I have to be on the lookout for poisoned umbrellas :)

It would be funny, if you weren’t wanking over the corpses of innocent people.

wookiemeister said:

At any rate

The rains are falling across ukraine

This changes the equation, major ground based operations will effectively cease.

One opinion I’ve heard is that the russians on the front where most activity is happening are simply hunkering down and waiting for the rains to fall and the mud to stop further advance.

Once the temperatures fall the ground hardens and all those new recruits being gathered now will be used to bolster and perhaps be part of an advance west.

Generally the russians are going after the productive parts of ukraine – the agricultural parts that are useful.

All other nations have learned to negotiate peaceful trade agreements.

Russian troops launched a missile attack on a line of civilian cars on the way out of the regional center, according to Zaporizhzhia Oblast Governor Oleksandr Starukh.

National Police Chief Ihor Klymenko said an 11-year-old girl and a 14-year-old boy are among those killed in Russia’s attack earlier on Sept. 30. Klymenko said 30 people were killed, and 88 people were injured, including a three-year-old girl.

Obviously a Ukraine false flag operation, as Russia doesn’t have any missiles left accurate enough to hit anything smaller than an apartment building.

Dark Orange said:

Russian troops launched a missile attack on a line of civilian cars on the way out of the regional center, according to Zaporizhzhia Oblast Governor Oleksandr Starukh.

National Police Chief Ihor Klymenko said an 11-year-old girl and a 14-year-old boy are among those killed in Russia’s attack earlier on Sept. 30. Klymenko said 30 people were killed, and 88 people were injured, including a three-year-old girl.

Obviously a Ukraine false flag operation, as Russia doesn’t have any missiles left accurate enough to hit anything smaller than an apartment building.

The Ukrainians attacked a railway with missiles

Unfortunately for them someone took pictures that showed the serial numbers of the missile – Ukrainian and shot from uko lines.

Another false flag attack I’m afraid.

From 2019

In any economic analysis of Nord Stream 2 the first question to be considered is the actual cost of the project. Over the last couple of years, a variety of publications have provided widely differing cost projections. The recent data suggest that Nord Stream 2 capital investment will reach €9,5-10 billion.

Ive heard there was still millions of dollars of Russian gas left in the pipe when it was blown up.

wookiemeister said:

Dark Orange said:

Russian troops launched a missile attack on a line of civilian cars on the way out of the regional center, according to Zaporizhzhia Oblast Governor Oleksandr Starukh.

National Police Chief Ihor Klymenko said an 11-year-old girl and a 14-year-old boy are among those killed in Russia’s attack earlier on Sept. 30. Klymenko said 30 people were killed, and 88 people were injured, including a three-year-old girl.

Obviously a Ukraine false flag operation, as Russia doesn’t have any missiles left accurate enough to hit anything smaller than an apartment building.

The Ukrainians attacked a railway with missiles

Unfortunately for them someone took pictures that showed the serial numbers of the missile – Ukrainian and shot from uko lines.

Another false flag attack I’m afraid.

Do you actually believe that? I thought you were more intelligent.

Australia doesn’t escape

Russian hypersonic slam into the few powerstations/ switchyards/ water treatment plants. They don’t bother hitting the military targets because there’s nothing we have that can do them damage and within a few days anarchy reigns – no regular food, the hospitals go dark. Within a few months millions are dead from tribal fighting. The satellites flying over see the RAAF has gone dark, no fuel for the aircraft. They occasionally blow up anything we might fix. No supplies arrive from overseas because ships and aircraft can’t get to the island – the yanks decide to cut off the gangrenous limb and turn a blind eye.

Another scenario is America does fire off its missiles. Salvos of missiles glass major cities across the globe.

The nuclear winter sets in. Europe gets cold European population numbers at best 5 million. Total population of earth perhaps 50 million.

The great filter strikes again

https://www.timeturk.com/en/russian-ruble-continues-to-gain-value-against-greenback/news-61958

wookiemeister said:

Australia doesn’t escape

Russian hypersonic slam into the few powerstations/ switchyards/ water treatment plants. They don’t bother hitting the military targets because there’s nothing we have that can do them damage and within a few days anarchy reigns – no regular food, the hospitals go dark. Within a few months millions are dead from tribal fighting. The satellites flying over see the RAAF has gone dark, no fuel for the aircraft. They occasionally blow up anything we might fix. No supplies arrive from overseas because ships and aircraft can’t get to the island – the yanks decide to cut off the gangrenous limb and turn a blind eye.

Another scenario is America does fire off its missiles. Salvos of missiles glass major cities across the globe.

The nuclear winter sets in. Europe gets cold European population numbers at best 5 million. Total population of earth perhaps 50 million.

When your crazy predictions fail to come to pass do you even ponder what an idiot you are?

Witty Rejoinder said:

wookiemeister said:

Australia doesn’t escape

Russian hypersonic slam into the few powerstations/ switchyards/ water treatment plants. They don’t bother hitting the military targets because there’s nothing we have that can do them damage and within a few days anarchy reigns – no regular food, the hospitals go dark. Within a few months millions are dead from tribal fighting. The satellites flying over see the RAAF has gone dark, no fuel for the aircraft. They occasionally blow up anything we might fix. No supplies arrive from overseas because ships and aircraft can’t get to the island – the yanks decide to cut off the gangrenous limb and turn a blind eye.

Another scenario is America does fire off its missiles. Salvos of missiles glass major cities across the globe.

The nuclear winter sets in. Europe gets cold European population numbers at best 5 million. Total population of earth perhaps 50 million.

When your crazy predictions fail to come to pass do you even ponder what an idiot you are?

Human thought thinks about what happens next

Australia has been providing weapons to kill russians

It would be quite normal to assume that Russia retaliates in some way.

I’m drawing a worse case scenario for being involved in a war on the other side of the world.

In recent history few people in Australia knew how bad Gallipoli was going, it took Murdoch’s relative to return to Australia to tell people how bad things were. The british army confiscated his notes before he sailed – No doubt classified information. On the voyage back a new journal/ essay is written – when lands everyone finds out.

Nowadays that same journalist would be labelled Ottoman empire disinformation and most likely thrown into jail.

Krasny liman

Russian forces retreat to prevent encirclement by uko forces

Given the fighting you’d assume this place has been turned into matchsticks.

Other thoughts

Maybe we should step up security on infrastructure in Australia given the sabotage of major pipelines in Europe. What would happen the few oil refineries in Australia were knocked out of action by a well placed bomb ?

No more fuel

Petrol prices rocket

Energy prices rocket

Given recent history: you’d analyse any strange uptick on Australian energy stock. It’s been noted that weird buying patterns emerged before some major event unfolded. If you see the weird uptick you increase security around critical infrastructure and scour the sites to find sabotage.

More distant voices that will never be heard. :(

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1576189432063221760

Ukrainian authorities found a civilian convoy with about 20 people dead in their cars near Kupiansk, according to Kharkiv Oblast Governor Oleh Syniehubov.

According to news website Suspilne, there were six cars in the convoy; the vehicles were found riddled with bullet holes and burned.

Ukraine’s Security Service says 10 out of the 20 dead are children.

wookiemeister said:

Other thoughts

Maybe we should step up security on infrastructure in Australia given the sabotage of major pipelines in Europe. What would happen the few oil refineries in Australia were knocked out of action by a well placed bomb ?

Australia has only two oil refineries.

In case you hadn’t noticed, oil refineries in this country have been getting ‘knocked out of action’ at a steady rate over the years. Altona and Kwinana were both closed in 2021.

This is being done by the oil companies, who really don’t want to have any refineries in Australia. The ultimate goal is to have none, and all end-product supplies to be sent here by tanker.

So, just wait a couple more years, and interference with Australian oil refineries simply won’t be a problem any more.

Dark Orange said:

More distant voices that will never be heard. :(

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1576189432063221760

Ukrainian authorities found a civilian convoy with about 20 people dead in their cars near Kupiansk, according to Kharkiv Oblast Governor Oleh Syniehubov.

According to news website Suspilne, there were six cars in the convoy; the vehicles were found riddled with bullet holes and burned.

Ukraine’s Security Service says 10 out of the 20 dead are children.

Awful.

:(

Michael V said:

Dark Orange said:

More distant voices that will never be heard. :(

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1576189432063221760

Ukrainian authorities found a civilian convoy with about 20 people dead in their cars near Kupiansk, according to Kharkiv Oblast Governor Oleh Syniehubov.

According to news website Suspilne, there were six cars in the convoy; the vehicles were found riddled with bullet holes and burned.

Ukraine’s Security Service says 10 out of the 20 dead are children.

Awful.

:(

The perpetrators of these atrocities need to be held to account.

Dark Orange said:

More distant voices that will never be heard. :(

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1576189432063221760

Ukrainian authorities found a civilian convoy with about 20 people dead in their cars near Kupiansk, according to Kharkiv Oblast Governor Oleh Syniehubov.

According to news website Suspilne, there were six cars in the convoy; the vehicles were found riddled with bullet holes and burned.

Ukraine’s Security Service says 10 out of the 20 dead are children.

When I hear anything from the SBU these days immediately classify it as propaganda

Most likely : uko false flag attack – they’ve been doing it for quite some time.

Remember all the accusations of Saddam’s army killing babies in the Kuwaiti hospitals ?

Its why I tend to look at how the actual battle field is shaping up.

Ive noticed that it’s all gone quiet about the sea harpoon missiles they were talking about a few months ago.

Seems to me as I’ve said before

Once the winter comes all the foliage falls to the ground and any cover disappears, the ground hardens and the tanks roll forward. Maybe they are sending more anti tank weapons to ukraine ?

4 weeks 1 day to winter

London: lowest temp this coming week 8 deg C

Lowest temp this week kiev : 7 deg C

raining all week, rainy season setting in

Makes me wonder, the russians chose to invade as the ground was drying out, have taken as much territory as possible then settled down for a hiatus for the rain.

Looking at the weather in ukraine, average temps only fall below 0 deg in December. You’d have to assume a Russian offensive would happen sometime late November. You’d see large troop movements forming around that time.

wookiemeister said:

Ive noticed that it’s all gone quiet about the sea harpoon missiles they were talking about a few months ago.

Seems to me as I’ve said before

Once the winter comes all the foliage falls to the ground and any cover disappears, the ground hardens and the tanks roll forward. Maybe they are sending more anti tank weapons to ukraine ?

I think the Russians are handing over a substantial number of their tanks. Perhaps Russia wants to give Ukraine a fair chance to win the war.

wookiemeister said:

Looking at the weather in ukraine, average temps only fall below 0 deg in December. You’d have to assume a Russian offensive would happen sometime late November. You’d see large troop movements forming around that time.

Then no doubt you would have wave after wave of poorly trained and equipped Russian recruits charging into the way of modern weaponry. But to look on the bright side all the fallen Russian soldiers would help fertilise the ground for following Ukrainian crops. Who said the Russians were not thoughtful.

PermeateFree said:

wookiemeister said:

Ive noticed that it’s all gone quiet about the sea harpoon missiles they were talking about a few months ago.

Seems to me as I’ve said before

Once the winter comes all the foliage falls to the ground and any cover disappears, the ground hardens and the tanks roll forward. Maybe they are sending more anti tank weapons to ukraine ?

I think the Russians are handing over a substantial number of their tanks. Perhaps Russia wants to give Ukraine a fair chance to win the war.

Be ironic if the Russian tanks ran out of fuel.

Tamb said:

PermeateFree said:

wookiemeister said:

Ive noticed that it’s all gone quiet about the sea harpoon missiles they were talking about a few months ago.

Seems to me as I’ve said before

Once the winter comes all the foliage falls to the ground and any cover disappears, the ground hardens and the tanks roll forward. Maybe they are sending more anti tank weapons to ukraine ?

I think the Russians are handing over a substantial number of their tanks. Perhaps Russia wants to give Ukraine a fair chance to win the war.

Be ironic if the Russian tanks ran out of fuel.

so what we’re saying is it’s a secret plan to dump rubble over the fertile plains of East Poland and obstruct productivity

Wookie was raving the other day about Russian tanks being lighter than Western tanks, so Western tanks would be more apt to get stuck in Ukrainian mud.

Apart from plenty of evidence earlier this year that the Russians are quit adept at getting their T-72s and T-90s well and truly bogged in mud, i went anc checked a few things.

1. T-72 tank: 44.5 tonnes. Leopard II tank: 55.15 tonnes

OK, several tonnes heavier. But:

2. Ground pressure, T-72 and T-90: 0.9 kg per sq cm. Leopard II: 0.83 kg/sq cm.

So, even though it’s heavier the Leopard II has a lighter footprint on the ground than the Russian tanks. This means that it’s slightly less likely to get bogged.

3. T-72 /T-90 crew: 3 . Leopard II crew:4

This is because the Russian tanks use an auto-loader for the main gun. The Leopard II has a crew member doing the loading. This is not as it might seem. It’s been demonstrated that a properly trained and efficient gunner/loader combination can load and fire faster than an auto-loader. A good gunner/loader team can often learnt to anticipate the tank commander’s orders and be ready to engage more quickly.

This is one reason why no NATO-supplied tanks have been put into the field by Ukraine yet. It takes AT LEAST several months to train a properly co-ordinated tank crew, especially on a type of tank that’s new to them. As the weeks go by, we might expect that some Western tanks will indeed appear.

4. Ammunition stowage: T-72/T-90: 22 rounds. Leopard II: 27.

Not a lot of difference there, but if you’ve fired your 22 rounds, then you have to bug out fast to replenish. However, if you’ve been trading shot-for-shot, then those Leopards might still have 5 rounds or so to fire off at your backside as you try to depart.

The Leopard II has its ammunition stowed in armoured lockers with blow-out panels to disperse blast. T-72s/T-90s have their 22 rounds in a carousel arrangement around the crew, with no such armour/blow-out provisions. This contributes to the spectacular turret blow-offs we’ve seen in past months when Russian tanks are hit.

Overall, the Russian and Western tanks are fairly equivalent. But, minor differences that seem insignificant in quiet times might become critical differences under the strain of battle.

We’ll see what coming months might demonstrate.

captain_spalding said:

Wookie was raving the other day about Russian tanks being lighter than Western tanks, so Western tanks would be more apt to get stuck in Ukrainian mud.

Apart from plenty of evidence earlier this year that the Russians are quit adept at getting their T-72s and T-90s well and truly bogged in mud, i went anc checked a few things.

1. T-72 tank: 44.5 tonnes. Leopard II tank: 55.15 tonnes

OK, several tonnes heavier. But:

2. Ground pressure, T-72 and T-90: 0.9 kg per sq cm. Leopard II: 0.83 kg/sq cm.

So, even though it’s heavier the Leopard II has a lighter footprint on the ground than the Russian tanks. This means that it’s slightly less likely to get bogged.

3. T-72 /T-90 crew: 3 . Leopard II crew:4

This is because the Russian tanks use an auto-loader for the main gun. The Leopard II has a crew member doing the loading. This is not as it might seem. It’s been demonstrated that a properly trained and efficient gunner/loader combination can load and fire faster than an auto-loader. A good gunner/loader team can often learnt to anticipate the tank commander’s orders and be ready to engage more quickly.

This is one reason why no NATO-supplied tanks have been put into the field by Ukraine yet. It takes AT LEAST several months to train a properly co-ordinated tank crew, especially on a type of tank that’s new to them. As the weeks go by, we might expect that some Western tanks will indeed appear.

4. Ammunition stowage: T-72/T-90: 22 rounds. Leopard II: 27.

Not a lot of difference there, but if you’ve fired your 22 rounds, then you have to bug out fast to replenish. However, if you’ve been trading shot-for-shot, then those Leopards might still have 5 rounds or so to fire off at your backside as you try to depart.

The Leopard II has its ammunition stowed in armoured lockers with blow-out panels to disperse blast. T-72s/T-90s have their 22 rounds in a carousel arrangement around the crew, with no such armour/blow-out provisions. This contributes to the spectacular turret blow-offs we’ve seen in past months when Russian tanks are hit.

Overall, the Russian and Western tanks are fairly equivalent. But, minor differences that seem insignificant in quiet times might become critical differences under the strain of battle.

We’ll see what coming months might demonstrate.

So far as I know, Ukraine does not have any Western tanks. Yet. They have asked for them several times but the West have been reluctant to go that far. So the Wookie theory about Western tanks getting stuck in the mud and ice while Russian tanks outflank them is just a daydream. Ukraine use tanks based on a modified Russian/Soviet type. A local development of the T-80 mostly, plus whatever they can lay their hands on in terms of T-72 and T-90. There is talk of Eastern European countries that still use Soviet style tanks getting replacement NATO tanks and sending all their old tanks to Ukraine, but this is still short of directly supplying them with western tanks.

party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

Wookie was raving the other day about Russian tanks being lighter than Western tanks, so Western tanks would be more apt to get stuck in Ukrainian mud.

Apart from plenty of evidence earlier this year that the Russians are quit adept at getting their T-72s and T-90s well and truly bogged in mud, i went anc checked a few things.

1. T-72 tank: 44.5 tonnes. Leopard II tank: 55.15 tonnes

OK, several tonnes heavier. But:

2. Ground pressure, T-72 and T-90: 0.9 kg per sq cm. Leopard II: 0.83 kg/sq cm.

So, even though it’s heavier the Leopard II has a lighter footprint on the ground than the Russian tanks. This means that it’s slightly less likely to get bogged.

3. T-72 /T-90 crew: 3 . Leopard II crew:4

This is because the Russian tanks use an auto-loader for the main gun. The Leopard II has a crew member doing the loading. This is not as it might seem. It’s been demonstrated that a properly trained and efficient gunner/loader combination can load and fire faster than an auto-loader. A good gunner/loader team can often learnt to anticipate the tank commander’s orders and be ready to engage more quickly.

This is one reason why no NATO-supplied tanks have been put into the field by Ukraine yet. It takes AT LEAST several months to train a properly co-ordinated tank crew, especially on a type of tank that’s new to them. As the weeks go by, we might expect that some Western tanks will indeed appear.

4. Ammunition stowage: T-72/T-90: 22 rounds. Leopard II: 27.

Not a lot of difference there, but if you’ve fired your 22 rounds, then you have to bug out fast to replenish. However, if you’ve been trading shot-for-shot, then those Leopards might still have 5 rounds or so to fire off at your backside as you try to depart.

The Leopard II has its ammunition stowed in armoured lockers with blow-out panels to disperse blast. T-72s/T-90s have their 22 rounds in a carousel arrangement around the crew, with no such armour/blow-out provisions. This contributes to the spectacular turret blow-offs we’ve seen in past months when Russian tanks are hit.

Overall, the Russian and Western tanks are fairly equivalent. But, minor differences that seem insignificant in quiet times might become critical differences under the strain of battle.

We’ll see what coming months might demonstrate.

So far as I know, Ukraine does not have any Western tanks. Yet. They have asked for them several times but the West have been reluctant to go that far. So the Wookie theory about Western tanks getting stuck in the mud and ice while Russian tanks outflank them is just a daydream. Ukraine use tanks based on a modified Russian/Soviet type. A local development of the T-80 mostly, plus whatever they can lay their hands on in terms of T-72 and T-90. There is talk of Eastern European countries that still use Soviet style tanks getting replacement NATO tanks and sending all their old tanks to Ukraine, but this is still short of directly supplying them with western tanks.

Leopard 2

2A6: 62.3 tonnes (68.7 short tons)
2A7V: 66.5 tonnes (73.3 short tons)

wookiemeister said:

party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

Wookie was raving the other day about Russian tanks being lighter than Western tanks, so Western tanks would be more apt to get stuck in Ukrainian mud.

Apart from plenty of evidence earlier this year that the Russians are quit adept at getting their T-72s and T-90s well and truly bogged in mud, i went anc checked a few things.

1. T-72 tank: 44.5 tonnes. Leopard II tank: 55.15 tonnes

OK, several tonnes heavier. But:

2. Ground pressure, T-72 and T-90: 0.9 kg per sq cm. Leopard II: 0.83 kg/sq cm.

So, even though it’s heavier the Leopard II has a lighter footprint on the ground than the Russian tanks. This means that it’s slightly less likely to get bogged.

3. T-72 /T-90 crew: 3 . Leopard II crew:4

This is because the Russian tanks use an auto-loader for the main gun. The Leopard II has a crew member doing the loading. This is not as it might seem. It’s been demonstrated that a properly trained and efficient gunner/loader combination can load and fire faster than an auto-loader. A good gunner/loader team can often learnt to anticipate the tank commander’s orders and be ready to engage more quickly.

This is one reason why no NATO-supplied tanks have been put into the field by Ukraine yet. It takes AT LEAST several months to train a properly co-ordinated tank crew, especially on a type of tank that’s new to them. As the weeks go by, we might expect that some Western tanks will indeed appear.

4. Ammunition stowage: T-72/T-90: 22 rounds. Leopard II: 27.

Not a lot of difference there, but if you’ve fired your 22 rounds, then you have to bug out fast to replenish. However, if you’ve been trading shot-for-shot, then those Leopards might still have 5 rounds or so to fire off at your backside as you try to depart.

The Leopard II has its ammunition stowed in armoured lockers with blow-out panels to disperse blast. T-72s/T-90s have their 22 rounds in a carousel arrangement around the crew, with no such armour/blow-out provisions. This contributes to the spectacular turret blow-offs we’ve seen in past months when Russian tanks are hit.

Overall, the Russian and Western tanks are fairly equivalent. But, minor differences that seem insignificant in quiet times might become critical differences under the strain of battle.

We’ll see what coming months might demonstrate.

So far as I know, Ukraine does not have any Western tanks. Yet. They have asked for them several times but the West have been reluctant to go that far. So the Wookie theory about Western tanks getting stuck in the mud and ice while Russian tanks outflank them is just a daydream. Ukraine use tanks based on a modified Russian/Soviet type. A local development of the T-80 mostly, plus whatever they can lay their hands on in terms of T-72 and T-90. There is talk of Eastern European countries that still use Soviet style tanks getting replacement NATO tanks and sending all their old tanks to Ukraine, but this is still short of directly supplying them with western tanks.

Leopard 2

2A6: 62.3 tonnes (68.7 short tons)
2A7V: 66.5 tonnes (73.3 short tons)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_2

Abram’s

M1: 60 short tons (54 t)
M1A1: 63 short tons (57 t)
M1A1 SA: 67.6 short tons (61.3 t)
M1A2 SEP v2: 71.2 short tons (64.6 t)
M1A2 SEP v3: 73.6 short tons (66.8 t)

The heavier a tank the more maintenance it requires and the more fuel it drinks

If America has gone as far as to blow up a ten billion dollar gas pipeline ( not including the cost of nordstream 1) – we can assume America and Germany will be committing their latest tanks on the eastern front crewed by NATO.

Ukraine becomes a live fire zone between NATO and Russia. NATO infrastructure as well as Russian infrastructure is regularly blown up. Europe has rolling blackouts, missiles regularly strike what’s left of the power infrastructure.

You are missing the point. Ukraine does not have any of these tanks, neither Leopard 2, nor Abrams, nor Challenger, nor Leclerc, nor even M60.

Their weights and dimensions are irrelevant to the war in Ukraine. Because none of them are in Ukraine.

party_pants said:

You are missing the point. Ukraine does not have any of these tanks, neither Leopard 2, nor Abrams, nor Challenger, nor Leclerc, nor even M60.

Their weights and dimensions are irrelevant to the war in Ukraine. Because none of them are in Ukraine.

or in Russia.

party_pants said:

You are missing the point. Ukraine does not have any of these tanks, neither Leopard 2, nor Abrams, nor Challenger, nor Leclerc, nor even M60.

Their weights and dimensions are irrelevant to the war in Ukraine. Because none of them are in Ukraine.

The point is that wookie’s fantasies of hugely overweight Western tanks being hopelessly mired in the mud while featherweight Russian tanks whizz around them like ‘Injuns’ around a stranded wagon train, picking off the Western tanks with impunity, is entirely exploded.

Apart from the fact that there are no Western tanks available to Ukraine, and that NATO apparently has no plans to provide any, so there are/will be no Western tanks in the fight, even if there were such tanks in the theatre, not only would they be no more likely to get bogged than the Russian tanks, but there’s slightly less likelihood of them getting stuck.

Unlike the way so many Russian tanks were seen to do in the earlier part of this war. And no doubt will again in the current season.

And there’s every chance that they could outshoot the Russian tanks, and be less likely to send their turrets soaring into the air in spectacular explosions because they have better survivability built in.

Putin Is Terrified Russians Have Only One Week Left To Stop War Or Face Defeat

roughbarked said:

Putin Is Terrified Russians Have Only One Week Left To Stop War Or Face Defeat

How Many Tanks Does Russia Have Left Now?

dv said:

Iraq never had any serious weapons or viable troops to speak of.

Actually speaking of Iraq

Iraq never did have any WMDs in the end , nice to see you finally agree with me that Iraq was invaded on a false pretence – right ?

Witty Rejoinder said:

wookiemeister said:

Australia doesn’t escape

Russian hypersonic slam into the few powerstations/ switchyards/ water treatment plants. They don’t bother hitting the military targets because there’s nothing we have that can do them damage and within a few days anarchy reigns – no regular food, the hospitals go dark. Within a few months millions are dead from tribal fighting. The satellites flying over see the RAAF has gone dark, no fuel for the aircraft. They occasionally blow up anything we might fix. No supplies arrive from overseas because ships and aircraft can’t get to the island – the yanks decide to cut off the gangrenous limb and turn a blind eye.

Another scenario is America does fire off its missiles. Salvos of missiles glass major cities across the globe.

The nuclear winter sets in. Europe gets cold European population numbers at best 5 million. Total population of earth perhaps 50 million.

When your crazy predictions fail to come to pass do you even ponder what an idiot you are?

The future is fluid

wookiemeister said:

dv said:

Iraq never had any serious weapons or viable troops to speak of.

Actually speaking of Iraq

Iraq never did have any WMDs in the end , nice to see you finally agree with me that Iraq was invaded on a false pretence – right ?

so there really are no Nazis in Ukraine then

SCIENCE said:

wookiemeister said:

dv said:

Iraq never had any serious weapons or viable troops to speak of.

Actually speaking of Iraq

Iraq never did have any WMDs in the end , nice to see you finally agree with me that Iraq was invaded on a false pretence – right ?

so there really are no Nazis in Ukraine then

Saddam’s Republican Guard was fairly well trained, well-motivated, and well-equipped. While the majority of Iraqi forces were no match for the Coalition forces, the Guard could have put up a reasonably good stoush. In the interest of avoiding more casualties than were necessary (for both sides), Coalition forces tried hard to avoid confronting the Guard, but did run up against them at the Karbala Gap, where the Guard did perform quite well.

SCIENCE said:

so there really are no Nazis in Ukraine then

The ‘Nazis’ claim is definitely a WMD scenario.

The difference is that, had the Russian plans unfolded as intended, a whole lot of ‘proof’ would have been promptly unearthed all over Ukraine, and proudly displayed by the Russians as justification for their invasion.

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

so there really are no Nazis in Ukraine then

The ‘Nazis’ claim is definitely a WMD scenario.

The difference is that, had the Russian plans unfolded as intended, a whole lot of ‘proof’ would have been promptly unearthed all over Ukraine, and proudly displayed by the Russians as justification for their invasion.

maybe they should have hit UK / IT / SE / US etc instead

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

so there really are no Nazis in Ukraine then

The ‘Nazis’ claim is definitely a WMD scenario.

The difference is that, had the Russian plans unfolded as intended, a whole lot of ‘proof’ would have been promptly unearthed all over Ukraine, and proudly displayed by the Russians as justification for their invasion.

What, were they going to stitch gold stars on the coats of all those in mass graves?

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

so there really are no Nazis in Ukraine then

The ‘Nazis’ claim is definitely a WMD scenario.

The difference is that, had the Russian plans unfolded as intended, a whole lot of ‘proof’ would have been promptly unearthed all over Ukraine, and proudly displayed by the Russians as justification for their invasion.

What, were they going to stitch gold stars on the coats of all those in mass graves?

Well, they did initially try to blame the (WW2) Nazis for the Katyn massacre.

And you can be sure that there would have been plenty of ‘Ukrainian’ documents produced to show just how Nazified the Ukes had become. And a lot of ‘reliable witnesses’ to testify to the excesses of the ‘Ukrainian Nazis’.

captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

The ‘Nazis’ claim is definitely a WMD scenario.

The difference is that, had the Russian plans unfolded as intended, a whole lot of ‘proof’ would have been promptly unearthed all over Ukraine, and proudly displayed by the Russians as justification for their invasion.

What, were they going to stitch gold stars on the coats of all those in mass graves?

Well, they did initially try to blame the (WW2) Nazis for the Katyn massacre.

And you can be sure that there would have been plenty of ‘Ukrainian’ documents produced to show just how Nazified the Ukes had become. And a lot of ‘reliable witnesses’ to testify to the excesses of the ‘Ukrainian Nazis’.

It is generally a good thing that the Ukranians wouldn’t have a bar of that.

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

wookiemeister said:

Iraq never had any serious weapons or viable troops to speak of.

Actually speaking of Iraq

Iraq never did have any WMDs in the end , nice to see you finally agree with me that Iraq was invaded on a false pretence – right ?

so there really are no Nazis in Ukraine then

Saddam’s Republican Guard was fairly well trained, well-motivated, and well-equipped. While the majority of Iraqi forces were no match for the Coalition forces, the Guard could have put up a reasonably good stoush. In the interest of avoiding more casualties than were necessary (for both sides), Coalition forces tried hard to avoid confronting the Guard, but did run up against them at the Karbala Gap, where the Guard did perform quite well.

Didn’t the US keep them out of the fight with 24/7 artillery barrage?

Dark Orange said:

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

so there really are no Nazis in Ukraine then

Saddam’s Republican Guard was fairly well trained, well-motivated, and well-equipped. While the majority of Iraqi forces were no match for the Coalition forces, the Guard could have put up a reasonably good stoush. In the interest of avoiding more casualties than were necessary (for both sides), Coalition forces tried hard to avoid confronting the Guard, but did run up against them at the Karbala Gap, where the Guard did perform quite well.

Didn’t the US keep them out of the fight with 24/7 artillery barrage?

so Russia really are just playing the same role as the USSA did back then

SCIENCE said:

Dark Orange said:

captain_spalding said:

Saddam’s Republican Guard was fairly well trained, well-motivated, and well-equipped. While the majority of Iraqi forces were no match for the Coalition forces, the Guard could have put up a reasonably good stoush. In the interest of avoiding more casualties than were necessary (for both sides), Coalition forces tried hard to avoid confronting the Guard, but did run up against them at the Karbala Gap, where the Guard did perform quite well.

Didn’t the US keep them out of the fight with 24/7 artillery barrage?

so Russia really are just playing the same role as the USSA did back then

The invasion of Iraq should not have happened. Certainly not for the reasons that were given.

But, just because the US did something stupid/wrong/for the wrong reasons, Russia (or any other country) is not entitled to say that it gives them a license to do something stupid/wrong/unjustified.

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

Dark Orange said:

Didn’t the US keep them out of the fight with 24/7 artillery barrage?

so Russia really are just playing the same role as the USSA did back then

The invasion of Iraq should not have happened. Certainly not for the reasons that were given.

But, just because the US did something stupid/wrong/for the wrong reasons, Russia (or any other country) is not entitled to say that it gives them a license to do something stupid/wrong/unjustified.

Welcome to planet Earth

Cymek said:

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

so Russia really are just playing the same role as the USSA did back then

The invasion of Iraq should not have happened. Certainly not for the reasons that were given.

But, just because the US did something stupid/wrong/for the wrong reasons, Russia (or any other country) is not entitled to say that it gives them a license to do something stupid/wrong/unjustified.

Welcome to planet Earth

Possibly some Russian are doing a bad job of fighting as they see a Russian loss is the only way of getting rid of the Vlad.

Cymek said:

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

so Russia really are just playing the same role as the USSA did back then

The invasion of Iraq should not have happened. Certainly not for the reasons that were given.

But, just because the US did something stupid/wrong/for the wrong reasons, Russia (or any other country) is not entitled to say that it gives them a license to do something stupid/wrong/unjustified.

Welcome to planet Earth

I never said that they wouldn’t presume that it gives them a license.

captain_spalding said:

Cymek said:

captain_spalding said:

The invasion of Iraq should not have happened. Certainly not for the reasons that were given.

But, just because the US did something stupid/wrong/for the wrong reasons, Russia (or any other country) is not entitled to say that it gives them a license to do something stupid/wrong/unjustified.

Welcome to planet Earth

I never said that they wouldn’t presume that it gives them a license.

No more that humans tend to do many stupid ill informed things.

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

Dark Orange said:

Didn’t the US keep them out of the fight with 24/7 artillery barrage?

so Russia really are just playing the same role as the USSA did back then

The invasion of Iraq should not have happened. Certainly not for the reasons that were given.

But, just because the US did something stupid/wrong/for the wrong reasons, Russia (or any other country) is not entitled to say that it gives them a license to do something stupid/wrong/unjustified.

Totally agree.

Michael V said:

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

so Russia really are just playing the same role as the USSA did back then

The invasion of Iraq should not have happened. Certainly not for the reasons that were given.

But, just because the US did something stupid/wrong/for the wrong reasons, Russia (or any other country) is not entitled to say that it gives them a license to do something stupid/wrong/unjustified.

Totally agree.

I imagine for those that make the decision to invade don’t suffer the consequences of dying, having family killed, entire infrastructure of their civilisation destroyed so don’t overly care.
Worse is they lose an election of get deposed (maybe being jailed or killed)

Cymek said:

captain_spalding said:

Cymek said:

Welcome to planet Earth

I never said that they wouldn’t presume that it gives them a license.

No more that humans tend to do many stupid ill informed things.

oh don’t get us wrong we think starting wars for bad reasons is fucked up, we’re just saying that if Russia does it they should be called out more, and if USSA did it then they should be called out more

SCIENCE said:

wookiemeister said:

dv said:

Iraq never had any serious weapons or viable troops to speak of.

Actually speaking of Iraq

Iraq never did have any WMDs in the end , nice to see you finally agree with me that Iraq was invaded on a false pretence – right ?

so there really are no Nazis in Ukraine then

Let Google be your guide

Until the invasion in march various news organisations and journalists have been complaining about nazism in ukraine for years.

Just google nazi ukraine and then click on images

wookiemeister said:

SCIENCE said:

wookiemeister said:

Iraq never had any serious weapons or viable troops to speak of.

Actually speaking of Iraq

Iraq never did have any WMDs in the end , nice to see you finally agree with me that Iraq was invaded on a false pretence – right ?

so there really are no Nazis in Ukraine then

Let Google be your guide

Until the invasion in march various news organisations and journalists have been complaining about nazism in ukraine for years.

Just google nazi ukraine and then click on images

Yup. And Zelensky fixed the problem.
(By sending in Nazis, ironically enough)

For what it’s worth Australia should lead the way and commit 30,000 troops to fighting the russian army on the eastern front.

It will be tough but worth it

If 30,000 don’t come back we can make a nice memorial for them and talk about how Australia has been forged in blood and steel. Hell, we could probably get John Howard to make a speech.

I suppose there were technically nazis in Ukraine in March.

wookiemeister said:

Let Google be your guide

Until the invasion in march various news organisations and journalists have been complaining about nazism in ukraine for years.

Just google nazi ukraine and then click on images

‘various news organisations and journalists’ complain just as loudly about neo-Nazis in Russia.

Just google ‘Nazi Russia’.

Ukraine has right-wing ratbags. The US has right-wing ratbags. France has right-wing ratbags. The UK has right-wing ratbags. Australia has right-wing ratbags. All of whom can be called ‘Nazis’.

They’re like rats. Everyone has them, or has them not far away.

If having Nazis is justification for invasion, then it’s a wonder that a lot more countries don’t get invaded. By countries who probably have Nazis of their own.

Until it can be explained how the ‘Nazi’ Ukrainian state came to be headed by a Jew, i’ll take claims of Ukraine being dominated by Nazis with a big grain of salt. Leopards don’t change their sports, Nazis don’t change their hate.

Dark Orange said:

wookiemeister said:

SCIENCE said:

so there really are no Nazis in Ukraine then

Let Google be your guide

Until the invasion in march various news organisations and journalists have been complaining about nazism in ukraine for years.

Just google nazi ukraine and then click on images

Yup. And Zelensky fixed the problem.
(By sending in Nazis, ironically enough)

I’m of the mind now that Australis needs to double down and introduce a $50,000 tax – no exception for everyone to launch a war on Russia. People can just take a loan. A every citizen with no exception takes a loan or just pays out right the 50,000. We need to teach those rissians a lesson.

captain_spalding said:

wookiemeister said:

Let Google be your guide

Until the invasion in march various news organisations and journalists have been complaining about nazism in ukraine for years.

Just google nazi ukraine and then click on images

‘various news organisations and journalists’ complain just as loudly about neo-Nazis in Russia.

Just google ‘Nazi Russia’.

Ukraine has right-wing ratbags. The US has right-wing ratbags. France has right-wing ratbags. The UK has right-wing ratbags. Australia has right-wing ratbags. All of whom can be called ‘Nazis’.

They’re like rats. Everyone has them, or has them not far away.

If having Nazis is justification for invasion, then it’s a wonder that a lot more countries don’t get invaded. By countries who probably have Nazis of their own.

Until it can be explained how the ‘Nazi’ Ukrainian state came to be headed by a Jew, i’ll take claims of Ukraine being dominated by Nazis with a big grain of salt. Leopards don’t change their sports, Nazis don’t change their hate.

Leopards don’t change their spots.

And possibly not their sports, either. Once a volleyball-playing leopard, always a volleyball-playing leopard.

Dark Orange said:

I suppose there were technically nazis in Ukraine in March.

Yeah I’ve seen that before

Nasty piece of work

captain_spalding said:

wookiemeister said:

Let Google be your guide

Until the invasion in march various news organisations and journalists have been complaining about nazism in ukraine for years.

Just google nazi ukraine and then click on images

‘various news organisations and journalists’ complain just as loudly about neo-Nazis in Russia.

Just google ‘Nazi Russia’.

Ukraine has right-wing ratbags. The US has right-wing ratbags. France has right-wing ratbags. The UK has right-wing ratbags. Australia has right-wing ratbags. All of whom can be called ‘Nazis’.

They’re like rats. Everyone has them, or has them not far away.

If having Nazis is justification for invasion, then it’s a wonder that a lot more countries don’t get invaded. By countries who probably have Nazis of their own.

Until it can be explained how the ‘Nazi’ Ukrainian state came to be headed by a Jew, i’ll take claims of Ukraine being dominated by Nazis with a big grain of salt. Leopards don’t change their sports, Nazis don’t change their hate.

Yes and aren’t the Russian soldiers acting exactly like the Nazis did in WWII with mass graves of tortured and dead civilians including children

Cymek said:

Yes and aren’t the Russian soldiers acting exactly like the Nazis did in WWII with mass graves of tortured and dead civilians including children

If you change a few proper nouns, and a few directions of advances and retreats, the story of the German invasion of 1941 would serve adequately to describe Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

wookiemeister said:

Dark Orange said:

I suppose there were technically nazis in Ukraine in March.

Yeah I’ve seen that before

Nasty piece of work

Lots of people in power who are just as bad as Nazis but don’t act like them out rightly but are still despicable human beings

captain_spalding said:

Cymek said:

Yes and aren’t the Russian soldiers acting exactly like the Nazis did in WWII with mass graves of tortured and dead civilians including children

If you change a few proper nouns, and a few directions of advances and retreats, the story of the German invasion of 1941 would serve adequately to describe Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

Pretty much

Ok

If we could just tax EVERY citizen in Australia 50,000 I’m getting 1.3 trillion or there about. The new 200,000 immigrants can hand over the money before arriving.

You could tax 50,000 every say 3 years.

The tax could be used to build thousands of bushmasters every month.

New artillery shell and ammunition factories could be built

The real way of making sure everyone pays is by not allowing anyone out of the country if they haven’t paid.

If they are on centrelink, you revoke the centrelink payment until they have taken a private loan .

If you are a large family on benefits you’ll be hit hard but so be it.

You could have full employment

Young and old would be working 24/7 to make bombs and bullets to achieve final victory

captain_spalding said:

captain_spalding said:

wookiemeister said:

Let Google be your guide

Until the invasion in march various news organisations and journalists have been complaining about nazism in ukraine for years.

Just google nazi ukraine and then click on images

‘various news organisations and journalists’ complain just as loudly about neo-Nazis in Russia.

Just google ‘Nazi Russia’.

Ukraine has right-wing ratbags. The US has right-wing ratbags. France has right-wing ratbags. The UK has right-wing ratbags. Australia has right-wing ratbags. All of whom can be called ‘Nazis’.

They’re like rats. Everyone has them, or has them not far away.

If having Nazis is justification for invasion, then it’s a wonder that a lot more countries don’t get invaded. By countries who probably have Nazis of their own.

Until it can be explained how the ‘Nazi’ Ukrainian state came to be headed by a Jew, i’ll take claims of Ukraine being dominated by Nazis with a big grain of salt. Leopards don’t change their sports, Nazis don’t change their hate.

Leopards don’t change their spots.

And possibly not their sports, either. Once a volleyball-playing leopard, always a volleyball-playing leopard.

I visited the nazis maybe 1998 (?)

From what they told me they were expanding into the eastern states, I was quite surprised. They did mention they were getting into Russia , opening up franchises/ supporter base.

I didn’t go alone ( for obvious reasons)

We were discussing the previous 3 hours as we walked back to my kombi ( I decided to park this away from the venue for obvious reasons). “They just threw their lives away on this stuff”, “yeah – hey ! Did you see that picture of that bloke in the SS uniform with a bald head “? Yeah ! , we both doubled over pissing ourselves. From various comments / conversations it was obvious that british intelligence obviously sent people over to them to practice being a spy – letting then get their training wheels. Australian intelligence would turn up periodically turn up to ask them what they’d been up to. I’ve got a funny feeling that they used to subscribe to their magazine, the communists made mention of this too.

maybe instead they could just send all the Nazis to an agreed arena, the Great Ocean Garbage Patch perhaps, and they can fight each other to the death

Darth Putin
@DarthPutinKGB

Day 221 of my 3 day war. I played my gas card so early Europe stocked up for winter and I mobilized so late that my conscripts will freeze in it.

Dark Orange said:

Darth Putin
@DarthPutinKGB

Day 221 of my 3 day war. I played my gas card so early Europe stocked up for winter and I mobilized so late that my conscripts will freeze in it.

There it is

Kiev 13 deg to 9 deg
Rain stopped
Soil getting wet

London 17 rain next week

wookiemeister said:

Kiev 13 deg to 9 deg
Rain stopped
Soil getting wet

London 17 rain next week

Yep, it’s just getting tougher and tougher for the Russians

dv said:

wookiemeister said:

Kiev 13 deg to 9 deg
Rain stopped
Soil getting wet

London 17 rain next week

Yep, it’s just getting tougher and tougher for the Russians

If you are mounting an offensive driving through mud it gets hard.

The russians are on hunkering down for the winter and will use the airforce/ missiles/ artillery to pick away at uko lines / infrastructure

Moment police ‘with no search warrant’ swooped on house of gender-critical Catholic mother and arrested her in front of her four children over ‘series of anonymous posts on internet chat board’

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11282263/Moment-police-swoop-house-devout-catholic-mother-malicious-online-posts.html

In the future police will run the gas chambers

wookiemeister said:

Moment police ‘with no search warrant’ swooped on house of gender-critical Catholic mother and arrested her in front of her four children over ‘series of anonymous posts on internet chat board’

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11282263/Moment-police-swoop-house-devout-catholic-mother-malicious-online-posts.html

In the future police will run the gas chambers

Ahh I sew she’s got trouble in the past complaining about children being mutilated and castrated

When will this woman learn ?

Weather kiev 13 / 3 deg next week sunny this week, cloudy next

Bad weather impedes Ukrainian advances and impedes bombardment by Russian airforce.

Weather london 18/ 8 next week, some rain.

As the weather cools European states will be using more power. I’ve heard Germany has/ will be cutting power to other countries.

No retaliation for nordstream infrastructure bombing by NATO. maybe the russians are just biding their time.

As weather cools demonstrations will start and be concentrated around capitals – Germany has already said no dissent will allowed, police and army will be deployed to streets.

Its a waiting game now. No mention of the Russian gains elsewhere.

wookiemeister said:

No retaliation for nordstream infrastructure bombing by NATO. maybe the russians are just biding their time.

As weather cools demonstrations will start and be concentrated around capitals – Germany has already said no dissent will allowed, police and army will be deployed to streets.

Its a waiting game now. No mention of the Russian gains elsewhere.

Russian has the most to gain by blowing up the pipeline.

Cymek said:

wookiemeister said:

No retaliation for nordstream infrastructure bombing by NATO. maybe the russians are just biding their time.

As weather cools demonstrations will start and be concentrated around capitals – Germany has already said no dissent will allowed, police and army will be deployed to streets.

Its a waiting game now. No mention of the Russian gains elsewhere.

Russian has the most to gain by blowing up the pipeline.

Blowing up 20 billion Euros of pipelinec( in total) doesn’t compute I’m afraid. If you believe that – that’s fine too.

The eastern front seems to have settled though on going Russian attacks using artillery, missiles and drones are on going.

wookiemeister said:

Cymek said:

wookiemeister said:

No retaliation for nordstream infrastructure bombing by NATO. maybe the russians are just biding their time.

As weather cools demonstrations will start and be concentrated around capitals – Germany has already said no dissent will allowed, police and army will be deployed to streets.

Its a waiting game now. No mention of the Russian gains elsewhere.

Russian has the most to gain by blowing up the pipeline.

Blowing up 20 billion Euros of pipelinec( in total) doesn’t compute I’m afraid. If you believe that – that’s fine too.

The eastern front seems to have settled though on going Russian attacks using artillery, missiles and drones are on going.

What’s the RT line about increasing criticism of Russia’s recent troubles from commentators in the Russian mainstream media?

wookiemeister said:

Weather kiev 13 / 3 deg next week sunny this week, cloudy next

Bad weather impedes Ukrainian advances and impedes bombardment by Russian airforce.

Weather london 18/ 8 next week, some rain.

As the weather cools European states will be using more power. I’ve heard Germany has/ will be cutting power to other countries.

At least the ukes have access to winter clothing.

Ukrainian service of Radio Liberty reports mass graves found in Lyman containing entire families.

This is not going to be pretty.

Dark Orange said:

Ukrainian service of Radio Liberty reports mass graves found in Lyman containing entire families.

This is not going to be pretty.

Hasn’t been pretty at all. This whole special operation.

Car bomb used to destroy section of bridge to Crimea.

Special military operation is changed to counter terrorism operation.

wookiemeister said:

Car bomb used to destroy section of bridge to Crimea.

Special military operation is changed to counter terrorism operation.

Of course this will be made to seem as if the russians blew up their own bridge

This is a matter of waiting for the weather to turn now

Crimean Bridge explosion just ‘the beginning,’ Ukraine says

wookiemeister said:

Crimean Bridge explosion just ‘the beginning,’ Ukraine says

They are probably looking for you right now.

There was very little blow back when Russia annexed Crimea.

Peak Warming Man said:

There was very little blow back when Russia annexed Crimea.

Certainly the Light Brigade wasn’t informed.

Peak Warming Man said:

There was very little blow back when Russia annexed Crimea.

I wouldn’t put it like that. There were extensive militaryz economic and diplomatic sanctions, they got kicked out the G7. The sanctions pushed Russia into a recession that’s lasted 8 years now.

A certain DJT spent most of his presidency trying to undo the sanctions and get Russia back in the G7 but to the credit of Congressional Republicans they weren’t having any of it.

Peak Warming Man said:

There was very little blow back when Russia annexed Crimea.

____

Very much like Anschluss

At the risk of sounding somewhat wookie, i was thinking about that bridge damage.

Given that the explosion appears to come from the outer side of the road bridge, and that the road bridge has been destroyed at two separated points, and given that a photo on another site points out that there was one or two small boats in the area, i begin to wonder…

…about glide-bomb units.

For instance, a GBU-12 Paveway II

A 500 lb. bomb with a nose-mounted laser seeker and fins for guidance. They’re the most commonly-used GBUs. Used with a laser target designator (basically, shine the laser light on the target), they have a very high hit rate. You could easily have a couple of blokes in a small boat with target designators, and the launching aircraft could let the bombs go from 15 km away.

captain_spalding said:

At the risk of sounding somewhat wookie, i was thinking about that bridge damage.

Given that the explosion appears to come from the outer side of the road bridge, and that the road bridge has been destroyed at two separated points, and given that a photo on another site points out that there was one or two small boats in the area, i begin to wonder…

…about glide-bomb units.

For instance, a GBU-12 Paveway II

A 500 lb. bomb with a nose-mounted laser seeker and fins for guidance. They’re the most commonly-used GBUs. Used with a laser target designator (basically, shine the laser light on the target), they have a very high hit rate. You could easily have a couple of blokes in a small boat with target designators, and the launching aircraft could let the bombs go from 15 km away.

Would that make as big a kablooey as what the video shows?

Also, how hard would it be for someone on a small boat to keep a laser designator on target?

Kingy said:

captain_spalding said:

At the risk of sounding somewhat wookie, i was thinking about that bridge damage.

Given that the explosion appears to come from the outer side of the road bridge, and that the road bridge has been destroyed at two separated points, and given that a photo on another site points out that there was one or two small boats in the area, i begin to wonder…

…about glide-bomb units.

For instance, a GBU-12 Paveway II

A 500 lb. bomb with a nose-mounted laser seeker and fins for guidance. They’re the most commonly-used GBUs. Used with a laser target designator (basically, shine the laser light on the target), they have a very high hit rate. You could easily have a couple of blokes in a small boat with target designators, and the launching aircraft could let the bombs go from 15 km away.

Would that make as big a kablooey as what the video shows?

Also, how hard would it be for someone on a small boat to keep a laser designator on target?

the explosion looks like there was fuel involved somewhere.

ChrispenEvan said:

Kingy said:

captain_spalding said:

At the risk of sounding somewhat wookie, i was thinking about that bridge damage.

Given that the explosion appears to come from the outer side of the road bridge, and that the road bridge has been destroyed at two separated points, and given that a photo on another site points out that there was one or two small boats in the area, i begin to wonder…

…about glide-bomb units.

For instance, a GBU-12 Paveway II

A 500 lb. bomb with a nose-mounted laser seeker and fins for guidance. They’re the most commonly-used GBUs. Used with a laser target designator (basically, shine the laser light on the target), they have a very high hit rate. You could easily have a couple of blokes in a small boat with target designators, and the launching aircraft could let the bombs go from 15 km away.

Would that make as big a kablooey as what the video shows?

Also, how hard would it be for someone on a small boat to keep a laser designator on target?

the explosion looks like there was fuel involved somewhere.

Yeah, it looked like a fertiliser truck bomb to me, but I’m no expert.

It’s also possible that the shock dislodged the second span of bridge one section further along.

I don’t know enough about munitions or warfare generally to comment on the likely methods used in the destruction of this bridge

dv said:

I don’t know enough about munitions or warfare generally to comment on the likely methods used in the destruction of this bridge

just remember, every explosion you see in movies is wrong.

ChrispenEvan said:

dv said:

I don’t know enough about munitions or warfare generally to comment on the likely methods used in the destruction of this bridge

just remember, every explosion you see in movies is wrong.

But some of them are real explosions

dv said:

ChrispenEvan said:

dv said:

I don’t know enough about munitions or warfare generally to comment on the likely methods used in the destruction of this bridge

just remember, every explosion you see in movies is wrong.

But some of them are real explosions

yes, but not real in the sense of what type of explosive they are supposed to represent.

captain_spalding said:

At the risk of sounding somewhat wookie, i was thinking about that bridge damage.

Given that the explosion appears to come from the outer side of the road bridge, and that the road bridge has been destroyed at two separated points, and given that a photo on another site points out that there was one or two small boats in the area, i begin to wonder…

…about glide-bomb units.

For instance, a GBU-12 Paveway II

A 500 lb. bomb with a nose-mounted laser seeker and fins for guidance. They’re the most commonly-used GBUs. Used with a laser target designator (basically, shine the laser light on the target), they have a very high hit rate. You could easily have a couple of blokes in a small boat with target designators, and the launching aircraft could let the bombs go from 15 km away.

I think you are on the money here, the Ukes are making the smug responses suggesting they were behind it although a pretty ballsy move for an air strike.

Dark Orange said:

captain_spalding said:

At the risk of sounding somewhat wookie, i was thinking about that bridge damage.

Given that the explosion appears to come from the outer side of the road bridge, and that the road bridge has been destroyed at two separated points, and given that a photo on another site points out that there was one or two small boats in the area, i begin to wonder…

…about glide-bomb units.

For instance, a GBU-12 Paveway II

A 500 lb. bomb with a nose-mounted laser seeker and fins for guidance. They’re the most commonly-used GBUs. Used with a laser target designator (basically, shine the laser light on the target), they have a very high hit rate. You could easily have a couple of blokes in a small boat with target designators, and the launching aircraft could let the bombs go from 15 km away.

I think you are on the money here, the Ukes are making the smug responses suggesting they were behind it although a pretty ballsy move for an air strike.

…and this video shows two distinct sections of bridge damaged.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1578638102083424257

Dark Orange said:

Dark Orange said:

captain_spalding said:

At the risk of sounding somewhat wookie, i was thinking about that bridge damage.

Given that the explosion appears to come from the outer side of the road bridge, and that the road bridge has been destroyed at two separated points, and given that a photo on another site points out that there was one or two small boats in the area, i begin to wonder…

…about glide-bomb units.

For instance, a GBU-12 Paveway II

A 500 lb. bomb with a nose-mounted laser seeker and fins for guidance. They’re the most commonly-used GBUs. Used with a laser target designator (basically, shine the laser light on the target), they have a very high hit rate. You could easily have a couple of blokes in a small boat with target designators, and the launching aircraft could let the bombs go from 15 km away.

I think you are on the money here, the Ukes are making the smug responses suggesting they were behind it although a pretty ballsy move for an air strike.

…and this video shows two distinct sections of bridge damaged.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1578638102083424257

Could be US airforce strike ( like nordstream)

PermeateFree said:

wookiemeister said:

Crimean Bridge explosion just ‘the beginning,’ Ukraine says

They are probably looking for you right now.

They might well be – I don’t think they will like what they will find

Anyway , the SBU probably isn’t allowed to operate legally in Australia – way too much paperwork.

There’s a Ukrainian kill list out there on some page “dugina” was on it, she got blown up in a car bomb , I’ve got a funny feeling rand Paul is on it as well.

I’m fairly sure I’m safe till Monday( at least) I think the reason I took my present job was to help a lady with one leg who’s all fucked up. Once that’s done I suppose I’ll be doing something else.

I know these are sad days in wookieworld but I don’t want you to be too despondent. There are still plenty of tyrants to fixate on. Kim Jong Un, Idriss Deby, MBS.

Most of them have not been daft enough to attempt an invasion they couldn’t complete and so one can still maintain the illusion that they are strong or wise rulers in some sense, if you like.

dv said:

I know these are sad days in wookieworld but I don’t want you to be too despondent. There are still plenty of tyrants to fixate on. Kim Jong Un, Idriss Deby, MBS.

Most of them have not been daft enough to attempt an invasion they couldn’t complete and so one can still maintain the illusion that they are strong or wise rulers in some sense, if you like.

Its a matter of waiting for winter now

Its going to be interesting to see what things look like in say, march

wookiemeister said:

dv said:

I know these are sad days in wookieworld but I don’t want you to be too despondent. There are still plenty of tyrants to fixate on. Kim Jong Un, Idriss Deby, MBS.

Most of them have not been daft enough to attempt an invasion they couldn’t complete and so one can still maintain the illusion that they are strong or wise rulers in some sense, if you like.

Its a matter of waiting for winter now

Its going to be interesting to see what things look like in say, march

interesting = lot of misery and suffering I expect

i’d be happy if the news was cancelled sometime, nothing that interesting was happening

wookiemeister said:

Dark Orange said:

Dark Orange said:

I think you are on the money here, the Ukes are making the smug responses suggesting they were behind it although a pretty ballsy move for an air strike.

…and this video shows two distinct sections of bridge damaged.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1578638102083424257

Could be US airforce strike ( like nordstream)

Could be RU.

“Now seriously. FSB/PMC try to eliminate leadership of Defense Ministry/GHQ. Before personnel change, FSB is in knockdown — missed Putin’s bridge explosion. Defense Ministry can now blame FSB for the future South loss. Isn’t it obvious who made an explosion? Truck arrived from RF.”

wookiemeister said:

Dark Orange said:

Dark Orange said:

I think you are on the money here, the Ukes are making the smug responses suggesting they were behind it although a pretty ballsy move for an air strike.

…and this video shows two distinct sections of bridge damaged.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1578638102083424257

Could be US airforce strike ( like nordstream)

Could be RU.

“Now seriously. FSB/PMC try to eliminate leadership of Defense Ministry/GHQ. Before personnel change, FSB is in knockdown — missed Putin’s bridge explosion. Defense Ministry can now blame FSB for the future South loss. Isn’t it obvious who made an explosion? Truck arrived from RF.”

Could be Russian conscripts, sick of all this.

Weather ukraine

Sporadic rain lasting a few days on the trot

Ive noticed that in some places it’s getting down to 2 deg over night.

Daytime temperatures are noticeably falling in Europe

Further thoughts

If heating is not going to be available in Europe this winter I wonder if you’ll see an outbreak of more colds and flus this winter ?

High inflation striking in winter coupled with less spending on food.

Not to mention the invasion from the south of thousands of asylum seekers

Britain is already seeing up to 1000 asylum seekers a day, all needing gov handouts.

Maybe Europe will evolve into a guns and butter Republic ?

Europe currently importing 1 million barrels a day of oil

What if the russians turn off the supply before winter driving up inflation in Europe even higher ?

https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1578634825417650176

Dark Orange said:

https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1578634825417650176

I reckon it will take Russia between a few weeks and month to repair the bridge, but I’d say the logistics issue it will create in the interim will be far reaching. I’ve read a heap of conflicting opinions on what caused the explosion, I doubt we’ll ever find out for sure though…

diddly-squat said:

Dark Orange said:

https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1578634825417650176

I reckon it will take Russia between a few weeks and month to repair the bridge, but I’d say the logistics issue it will create in the interim will be far reaching. I’ve read a heap of conflicting opinions on what caused the explosion, I doubt we’ll ever find out for sure though…

The railway will be working within days / already working

Its how diesel / other supplies get to the front

OPEC cuts oil production

wookiemeister said:

diddly-squat said:

Dark Orange said:

https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1578634825417650176

I reckon it will take Russia between a few weeks and month to repair the bridge, but I’d say the logistics issue it will create in the interim will be far reaching. I’ve read a heap of conflicting opinions on what caused the explosion, I doubt we’ll ever find out for sure though…

The railway will be working within days / already working

Its how diesel / other supplies get to the front

It depends on how much damage was done to the basic structure of the rail bridge from a prolonged diesel fuel fire (900 deg C – 1200 deg C).

It being Russia, they may well just say ‘screw it, patch up the rails, send the trains across’, and hope for the best (or that you can blame someone else).

If they’d rather not take chances on having their trains plunge headlong into the Kerch Strait, it might take quite a while.

wookiemeister said:

OPEC cuts oil production

Last week’s news.

Starlink communications system disrupted

Russia is building a new ground-based laser facility for interfering with satellites orbiting overhead, according to a recent report in The Space Review. The basic idea would be to dazzle the optical sensors of other nations’ spy satellites by flooding them with laser light.

they are getting desperate now. as are their supporters.

party_pants said:

they are getting desperate now. as are their supporters.

Supply is going to be important to both sides in the next several weeks. Then, when the season of rain and mud limits movement and action on both sides, then both sides will try to re-organise, re-supply, and build stocks of ammunition and equipment for the next campaign season.

Which side best takes advantage of that opportunity will be the one that comes out in front in the months ahead.

It’s hardly a coincidence that Ukrainian advances and attacks seem to be targetting supply control points and access routes.

party_pants said:

they are getting desperate now. as are their supporters.

Probably one of the major factors is the uptick in internal dissent in Russia. People are looking to a future beyond Putin.