At the doctors today there were signs on the seats in the waitiing room. The proclaimed that the problem was more about neither side of government being sympathetic to the rising costs in relation to the medicare freeze. Went on to say the same about how neither government has been supporting the suppply of new GP’s.

roughbarked said:

At the doctors today there were signs on the seats in the waitiing room. The proclaimed that the problem was more about neither side of government being sympathetic to the rising costs in relation to the medicare freeze. Went on to say the same about how neither government has been supporting the suppply of new GP’s.

Does make you think the rorting was to have the income they think they deserve by making up numerous Captain Tuttle’s to bill

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

At the doctors today there were signs on the seats in the waitiing room. The proclaimed that the problem was more about neither side of government being sympathetic to the rising costs in relation to the medicare freeze. Went on to say the same about how neither government has been supporting the suppply of new GP’s.

Does make you think the rorting was to have the income they think they deserve by making up numerous Captain Tuttle’s to bill

I daresay. Otherwise they would have to exlain to their customers why they were charging extra on top of the meducare rebate.

Which is also what was said on these notices I read this morning.

maybe doctors are just greedy bastards and should get back to work

SCIENCE said:

maybe doctors are just greedy bastards and should get back to work

That’s what Scomo said.

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

At the doctors today there were signs on the seats in the waitiing room. The proclaimed that the problem was more about neither side of government being sympathetic to the rising costs in relation to the medicare freeze. Went on to say the same about how neither government has been supporting the suppply of new GP’s.

Does make you think the rorting was to have the income they think they deserve by making up numerous Captain Tuttle’s to bill

I daresay. Otherwise they would have to exlain to their customers why they were charging extra on top of the meducare rebate.

Which is also what was said on these notices I read this morning.

Basically, the notices started with “why are we charging you a fee?”

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

At the doctors today there were signs on the seats in the waitiing room. The proclaimed that the problem was more about neither side of government being sympathetic to the rising costs in relation to the medicare freeze. Went on to say the same about how neither government has been supporting the suppply of new GP’s.

Does make you think the rorting was to have the income they think they deserve by making up numerous Captain Tuttle’s to bill

Nice one Cymek.

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

Does make you think the rorting was to have the income they think they deserve by making up numerous Captain Tuttle’s to bill

I daresay. Otherwise they would have to exlain to their customers why they were charging extra on top of the meducare rebate.

Which is also what was said on these notices I read this morning.

Basically, the notices started with “why are we charging you a fee?”

My local doctor started doing it earlier this month, the Medicare rebate doesn’t keep up with what they think they should get

We should also note that the AMA has a quiet policy of discouraging the expansion of, reduction of qualifications for, and cost of doctor training programmes in Australian universities.

This ensures a limited supply of Australian-trained doctors, for whom there’s a higher rate of demand, and who can also command higher recompense.

Peak Warming Man said:

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

At the doctors today there were signs on the seats in the waitiing room. The proclaimed that the problem was more about neither side of government being sympathetic to the rising costs in relation to the medicare freeze. Went on to say the same about how neither government has been supporting the suppply of new GP’s.

Does make you think the rorting was to have the income they think they deserve by making up numerous Captain Tuttle’s to bill

Nice one Cymek.

I wasn’t referring to those that were deliberately rorting. I was pointing to the overcharging on the medicare docket. I daresay that because the medicare freeze meant they had to charge higher prices to medicare so that the customers didn’t feel out of pocket.

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

I daresay. Otherwise they would have to exlain to their customers why they were charging extra on top of the meducare rebate.

Which is also what was said on these notices I read this morning.

Basically, the notices started with “why are we charging you a fee?”

My local doctor started doing it earlier this month, the Medicare rebate doesn’t keep up with what they think they should get

It isn’t about what they think they should get. It is about keeping up with rising costs. Also the fact that the average income was rising far higher than the medicare rebate which was frozen.

captain_spalding said:

We should also note that the AMA has a quiet policy of discouraging the expansion of, reduction of qualifications for, and cost of doctor training programmes in Australian universities.

This ensures a limited supply of Australian-trained doctors, for whom there’s a higher rate of demand, and who can also command higher recompense.

That looks to be something that also needs to be addressed.

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

Basically, the notices started with “why are we charging you a fee?”

My local doctor started doing it earlier this month, the Medicare rebate doesn’t keep up with what they think they should get

It isn’t about what they think they should get. It is about keeping up with rising costs. Also the fact that the average income was rising far higher than the medicare rebate which was frozen.

What’s a fair salary for a doctor, if they are a GP that’s basically a prescription pad and trundles patients in and out in 10 minutes is that being a doctor.
Hear stories of doctors who dismiss patient concerns and turns out as something serious down the track.

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

maybe doctors are just greedy bastards and should get back to work

That’s what Scomo said.

In all fairness, I think that ensuring GP services is one of the most important things that the government does, and it’s reasonable that the MBS schedule keep pace.

In 2003, the basic consultation fee (item 23) was $30.20.
In 2009, $33.55.
In 2014, $37.05.
In 2022, it’s $39.10.

It scarcely budged through 9 years of conservative government.

Just to keep up with inflation, to be worth as much as it was worth in 2003, it would need to be $46, but in reality it needs to increase faster than that. A lot of the doctor’s costs are going to beat inflation: wages and office rental particularly.

It would probably be better to make sure it keeps pace with nominal GDP per capita.

I think in reality for everyone to receive top notch medical care and the providers paid properly the health budget would need to massively increase
Do away with military spending and give it to health as well as its normal budget, not likely

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

My local doctor started doing it earlier this month, the Medicare rebate doesn’t keep up with what they think they should get

It isn’t about what they think they should get. It is about keeping up with rising costs. Also the fact that the average income was rising far higher than the medicare rebate which was frozen.

What’s a fair salary for a doctor, if they are a GP that’s basically a prescription pad and trundles patients in and out in 10 minutes is that being a doctor.
Hear stories of doctors who dismiss patient concerns and turns out as something serious down the track.

Mine did a mental health test and wrote a submission to a psychiatrist all within 20 minutes.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

maybe doctors are just greedy bastards and should get back to work

That’s what Scomo said.

In all fairness, I think that ensuring GP services is one of the most important things that the government does, and it’s reasonable that the MBS schedule keep pace.

In 2003, the basic consultation fee (item 23) was $30.20.
In 2009, $33.55.
In 2014, $37.05.
In 2022, it’s $39.10.

It scarcely budged through 9 years of conservative government.

Just to keep up with inflation, to be worth as much as it was worth in 2003, it would need to be $46, but in reality it needs to increase faster than that. A lot of the doctor’s costs are going to beat inflation: wages and office rental particularly.

It would probably be better to make sure it keeps pace with nominal GDP per capita.

As usual, dv comes up with the factual evidence.

Cymek said:

I think in reality for everyone to receive top notch medical care and the providers paid properly the health budget would need to massively increase
Do away with military spending and give it to health as well as its normal budget, not likely

To just factor it in, is all they have to do.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

That’s what Scomo said.

In all fairness, I think that ensuring GP services is one of the most important things that the government does, and it’s reasonable that the MBS schedule keep pace.

In 2003, the basic consultation fee (item 23) was $30.20.
In 2009, $33.55.
In 2014, $37.05.
In 2022, it’s $39.10.

It scarcely budged through 9 years of conservative government.

Just to keep up with inflation, to be worth as much as it was worth in 2003, it would need to be $46, but in reality it needs to increase faster than that. A lot of the doctor’s costs are going to beat inflation: wages and office rental particularly.

It would probably be better to make sure it keeps pace with nominal GDP per capita.

As usual, dv comes up with the factual evidence.

Fair enough

roughbarked said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

That’s what Scomo said.

In all fairness, I think that ensuring GP services is one of the most important things that the government does, and it’s reasonable that the MBS schedule keep pace.

In 2003, the basic consultation fee (item 23) was $30.20.
In 2009, $33.55.
In 2014, $37.05.
In 2022, it’s $39.10.

It scarcely budged through 9 years of conservative government.

Just to keep up with inflation, to be worth as much as it was worth in 2003, it would need to be $46, but in reality it needs to increase faster than that. A lot of the doctor’s costs are going to beat inflation: wages and office rental particularly.

It would probably be better to make sure it keeps pace with nominal GDP per capita.

As usual, dv comes up with the factual evidence.

¿ office rental, like the offices that are now empty thanks to homeworking ?

… surely supply and demand …

SCIENCE said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

In all fairness, I think that ensuring GP services is one of the most important things that the government does, and it’s reasonable that the MBS schedule keep pace.

In 2003, the basic consultation fee (item 23) was $30.20.
In 2009, $33.55.
In 2014, $37.05.
In 2022, it’s $39.10.

It scarcely budged through 9 years of conservative government.

Just to keep up with inflation, to be worth as much as it was worth in 2003, it would need to be $46, but in reality it needs to increase faster than that. A lot of the doctor’s costs are going to beat inflation: wages and office rental particularly.

It would probably be better to make sure it keeps pace with nominal GDP per capita.

As usual, dv comes up with the factual evidence.

¿ office rental, like the offices that are now empty thanks to homeworking ?

… surely supply and demand …

My GP only worked from home when he had covid.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

maybe doctors are just greedy bastards and should get back to work

That’s what Scomo said.

In all fairness, I think that ensuring GP services is one of the most important things that the government does, and it’s reasonable that the MBS schedule keep pace.

In 2003, the basic consultation fee (item 23) was $30.20.
In 2009, $33.55.
In 2014, $37.05.
In 2022, it’s $39.10.

It scarcely budged through 9 years of conservative government.

Just to keep up with inflation, to be worth as much as it was worth in 2003, it would need to be $46, but in reality it needs to increase faster than that. A lot of the doctor’s costs are going to beat inflation: wages and office rental particularly.

It would probably be better to make sure it keeps pace with nominal GDP per capita.

As many of you will know, I was a bulk billing optometrist for the bulk of my career. This meant I was paid 85% of schedule fee for a consultation. Optometrists were different from medicos in that we were not allowed to charge above schedule fee, so that 15% meant guaranteed payment and you didn’t have to chase people up for payments. We were also not allowed to charge a “gap”. I think that is still the case. You have to charge the full fee and the patient claims the rebate (or you can now do that for them electronically). Anyway, from the time I started practising in 1981, the annual increase in schedule fees for optometry was never CPI. Always less. So we got further and further behind. Then there was a full freeze on increases for the GFC. Which lasted much longer than the Labor government of the time had intended, because…change of government. And then, for good measure, our schedule fees were decreased. At that point they very kindly allowed us to charge above schedule fee, and that is when I said…right, I simply can’t run my practice in negative money and I started charging the old schedule fee to the patient. We had a lot of explaining to do. But it was that or go bankrupt. In the meantime of course, my staff costs increased by the minimum wage increase every year, although we could control the rent because the building was owned by our self managed super fund. So the rent was frozen for many, many years. I don’t know if the falling behind was the same for doctors, but I think it was similar. They did have the option of charging more than schedule fee for consultations though, and around here very few bulkbilled except for pensioners etc.

buffy said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

That’s what Scomo said.

In all fairness, I think that ensuring GP services is one of the most important things that the government does, and it’s reasonable that the MBS schedule keep pace.

In 2003, the basic consultation fee (item 23) was $30.20.
In 2009, $33.55.
In 2014, $37.05.
In 2022, it’s $39.10.

It scarcely budged through 9 years of conservative government.

Just to keep up with inflation, to be worth as much as it was worth in 2003, it would need to be $46, but in reality it needs to increase faster than that. A lot of the doctor’s costs are going to beat inflation: wages and office rental particularly.

It would probably be better to make sure it keeps pace with nominal GDP per capita.

As many of you will know, I was a bulk billing optometrist for the bulk of my career. This meant I was paid 85% of schedule fee for a consultation. Optometrists were different from medicos in that we were not allowed to charge above schedule fee, so that 15% meant guaranteed payment and you didn’t have to chase people up for payments. We were also not allowed to charge a “gap”. I think that is still the case. You have to charge the full fee and the patient claims the rebate (or you can now do that for them electronically). Anyway, from the time I started practising in 1981, the annual increase in schedule fees for optometry was never CPI. Always less. So we got further and further behind. Then there was a full freeze on increases for the GFC. Which lasted much longer than the Labor government of the time had intended, because…change of government. And then, for good measure, our schedule fees were decreased. At that point they very kindly allowed us to charge above schedule fee, and that is when I said…right, I simply can’t run my practice in negative money and I started charging the old schedule fee to the patient. We had a lot of explaining to do. But it was that or go bankrupt. In the meantime of course, my staff costs increased by the minimum wage increase every year, although we could control the rent because the building was owned by our self managed super fund. So the rent was frozen for many, many years. I don’t know if the falling behind was the same for doctors, but I think it was similar. They did have the option of charging more than schedule fee for consultations though, and around here very few bulkbilled except for pensioners etc.

I get bulk billed since I got the pension card. Had to pay and get the medicare rebate before that.
However, the notice I read today said that pension/concession card hplers would als be charged an extra fee. Though this had obviously not come into play yet, as the girl at the desk said I had been bulk billed.

Cymek said:

I think in reality for everyone to receive top notch medical care and the providers paid properly the health budget would need to massively increase
Do away with military spending and give it to health as well as its normal budget, not likely

The government could always print more money…moar to go around.

Call it QE or something…

I thought this thread was going to be about this…

Medicare fraud to be investigated, but $8 billion rorts claims ‘way out of whack’: health minster

Health Minister Mark Butler says claims of billions of dollars being rorted each year from the Medicare system are being taken seriously.

Mr Butler said an investigation would be carried out following reports from the ABC and Nine newspapers that 

up to $8 billion was being rorted from the system

.

The media reports alleged some practitioners were ripping off Medicare and charging for services that weren’t delivered, with some doctors reportedly billing dead people and falsifying medical records…

“It’s way out of whack with any other figure that’s ever been provided to government, including by the National Audit Office that only did a review of the program a couple of years ago, but I’m taking it seriously,” he told ABC Radio on Tuesday.

“We want to make sure that we do everything we can as a government to ensure that every dollar is spent wisely.”

Peak body the Australian Medical Association said the allegations of Medicare rorting were a slur on the profession.

The association’s president Steve Robson said the vast majority of GPs did the right thing by their patients and indicated the $8 billion figure was “grossly inflated”.

Ian said:

I thought this thread was going to be about this…

Medicare fraud to be investigated, but $8 billion rorts claims ‘way out of whack’: health minster

Health Minister Mark Butler says claims of billions of dollars being rorted each year from the Medicare system are being taken seriously.

Mr Butler said an investigation would be carried out following reports from the ABC and Nine newspapers that 

up to $8 billion was being rorted from the system

.

The media reports alleged some practitioners were ripping off Medicare and charging for services that weren’t delivered, with some doctors reportedly billing dead people and falsifying medical records…

“It’s way out of whack with any other figure that’s ever been provided to government, including by the National Audit Office that only did a review of the program a couple of years ago, but I’m taking it seriously,” he told ABC Radio on Tuesday.

“We want to make sure that we do everything we can as a government to ensure that every dollar is spent wisely.”

Peak body the Australian Medical Association said the allegations of Medicare rorting were a slur on the profession.

The association’s president Steve Robson said the vast majority of GPs did the right thing by their patients and indicated the $8 billion figure was “grossly inflated”.

That’s what I was talking about.
False claims to boost income to what it should be due to the rebate not increasing in value

Obv I don’t approve of fraud and abuse of the Medicare system, regardless of the slide in MBS schedule fees.

poikilotherm said:

Cymek said:

I think in reality for everyone to receive top notch medical care and the providers paid properly the health budget would need to massively increase
Do away with military spending and give it to health as well as its normal budget, not likely

The government could always print more money…moar to go around.

Call it QE or something…

MMT all the way!

The other aspect is that poor information can lead to misallocation of funds. If the Govt thinks 90% of visits are bulk-billed but it is really only 50%, that’s a problem.

—-

Systemic rorting of Medicare is artificially inflating official statistics to indicate almost nine out of 10 patients are bulk-billed by their doctor and don’t pay any out-of-pocket costs.

A joint investigation into Medicare by ABC’s 7.30, The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age has found errors and illegal practices by health practitioners are distorting the national figures.

Some experts are convinced that the bulk-billing rate is far lower: about four to six in every 10 visits to GPs.

—-

dv said:

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

maybe doctors are just greedy bastards and should get back to work

That’s what Scomo said.

In all fairness, I think that ensuring GP services is one of the most important things that the government does, and it’s reasonable that the MBS schedule keep pace.

In 2003, the basic consultation fee (item 23) was $30.20.
In 2009, $33.55.
In 2014, $37.05.
In 2022, it’s $39.10.

It scarcely budged through 9 years of conservative government.

Just to keep up with inflation, to be worth as much as it was worth in 2003, it would need to be $46, but in reality it needs to increase faster than that. A lot of the doctor’s costs are going to beat inflation: wages and office rental particularly.

It would probably be better to make sure it keeps pace with nominal GDP per capita.

Agreed.

The strange thing is that in the later years of the Scummo government the proportion of bulk billed services was said to be increasing.

This suggests to me that doctors were given a nod and a wink that if they were a little “creative” with their billing, no-one was going to look into it too much.

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

That’s what Scomo said.

In all fairness, I think that ensuring GP services is one of the most important things that the government does, and it’s reasonable that the MBS schedule keep pace.

In 2003, the basic consultation fee (item 23) was $30.20.
In 2009, $33.55.
In 2014, $37.05.
In 2022, it’s $39.10.

It scarcely budged through 9 years of conservative government.

Just to keep up with inflation, to be worth as much as it was worth in 2003, it would need to be $46, but in reality it needs to increase faster than that. A lot of the doctor’s costs are going to beat inflation: wages and office rental particularly.

It would probably be better to make sure it keeps pace with nominal GDP per capita.

Agreed.

The strange thing is that in the later years of the Scummo government the proportion of bulk billed services was said to be increasing.

This suggests to me that doctors were given a nod and a wink that if they were a little “creative” with their billing, no-one was going to look into it too much.

corruption is as corruption does

dv said:

The other aspect is that poor information can lead to misallocation of funds. If the Govt thinks 90% of visits are bulk-billed but it is really only 50%, that’s a problem.

—-

Systemic rorting of Medicare is artificially inflating official statistics to indicate almost nine out of 10 patients are bulk-billed by their doctor and don’t pay any out-of-pocket costs.

A joint investigation into Medicare by ABC’s 7.30, The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age has found errors and illegal practices by health practitioners are distorting the national figures.

Some experts are convinced that the bulk-billing rate is far lower: about four to six in every 10 visits to GPs.

—-

I wonder if a bulk billing is happening and then a top up amount is being paid by the patient. It was strictly forbidden to us as optometrists, but I don’t know what the deal was/is with doctors.

buffy said:

dv said:

The other aspect is that poor information can lead to misallocation of funds. If the Govt thinks 90% of visits are bulk-billed but it is really only 50%, that’s a problem.

—-

Systemic rorting of Medicare is artificially inflating official statistics to indicate almost nine out of 10 patients are bulk-billed by their doctor and don’t pay any out-of-pocket costs.

A joint investigation into Medicare by ABC’s 7.30, The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age has found errors and illegal practices by health practitioners are distorting the national figures.

Some experts are convinced that the bulk-billing rate is far lower: about four to six in every 10 visits to GPs.

—-

I wonder if a bulk billing is happening and then a top up amount is being paid by the patient. It was strictly forbidden to us as optometrists, but I don’t know what the deal was/is with doctors.

FWIW a text I received yesterday from my local medical centre.

Spiny Norman said:

buffy said:

dv said:

The other aspect is that poor information can lead to misallocation of funds. If the Govt thinks 90% of visits are bulk-billed but it is really only 50%, that’s a problem.

—-

Systemic rorting of Medicare is artificially inflating official statistics to indicate almost nine out of 10 patients are bulk-billed by their doctor and don’t pay any out-of-pocket costs.

A joint investigation into Medicare by ABC’s 7.30, The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age has found errors and illegal practices by health practitioners are distorting the national figures.

Some experts are convinced that the bulk-billing rate is far lower: about four to six in every 10 visits to GPs.

—-

I wonder if a bulk billing is happening and then a top up amount is being paid by the patient. It was strictly forbidden to us as optometrists, but I don’t know what the deal was/is with doctors.

FWIW a text I received yesterday from my local medical centre.

This happened a number of years ago and then a few practices returned to bulk billing, I’m assuming had a lot more patients as a result and most other practices followed.

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

In all fairness, I think that ensuring GP services is one of the most important things that the government does, and it’s reasonable that the MBS schedule keep pace.

In 2003, the basic consultation fee (item 23) was $30.20.
In 2009, $33.55.
In 2014, $37.05.
In 2022, it’s $39.10.

It scarcely budged through 9 years of conservative government.

Just to keep up with inflation, to be worth as much as it was worth in 2003, it would need to be $46, but in reality it needs to increase faster than that. A lot of the doctor’s costs are going to beat inflation: wages and office rental particularly.

It would probably be better to make sure it keeps pace with nominal GDP per capita.

Agreed.

The strange thing is that in the later years of the Scummo government the proportion of bulk billed services was said to be increasing.

This suggests to me that doctors were given a nod and a wink that if they were a little “creative” with their billing, no-one was going to look into it too much.

corruption is as corruption does

So how do teachers make a little bit on the side?

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Agreed.

The strange thing is that in the later years of the Scummo government the proportion of bulk billed services was said to be increasing.

This suggests to me that doctors were given a nod and a wink that if they were a little “creative” with their billing, no-one was going to look into it too much.

corruption is as corruption does

So how do teachers make a little bit on the side?

there’s no rule that they can’t tutor students not in their school class

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Agreed.

The strange thing is that in the later years of the Scummo government the proportion of bulk billed services was said to be increasing.

This suggests to me that doctors were given a nod and a wink that if they were a little “creative” with their billing, no-one was going to look into it too much.

corruption is as corruption does

So how do teachers make a little bit on the side?

Listening to the news today, I’d say by making lesson plans and selling them to other teachers.

buffy said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

corruption is as corruption does

So how do teachers make a little bit on the side?

Listening to the news today, I’d say by making lesson plans and selling them to other teachers.

coaching

SCIENCE said:

maybe doctors are just greedy bastards and should get back to work

yep, knew it, they aren’t just lazy greedy bastards, they’re communists as well

The Medicare rebate isn’t keeping pace with rising costs.

Doctors have to either charge more, or fit more patients in per hour cutting down doctor-patient time.

What annoys me, what really annoys me, is that waiting times in the waiting room for the pre-booked doctor visits with doctors who charge more are longer than waiting times for bulk billing when there is no booking. Typically twice as long.

If a doctor makes a booking for a particular time, they must make themselves available at that time.

SCIENCE said:

SCIENCE said:

maybe doctors are just greedy bastards and should get back to work

yep, knew it, they aren’t just lazy greedy bastards, they’re communists as well

So “competent, caring” GPs are “leaving the business” because of some crap in the media?

Seriously?

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

SCIENCE said:

maybe doctors are just greedy bastards and should get back to work

yep, knew it, they aren’t just lazy greedy bastards, they’re communists as well

So “competent, caring” GPs are “leaving the business” because of some crap in the media?

Seriously?

well we suppose as per Free Market Theoretics if there are threats to decrease the real price of a good or service, even if it’s a competent and caring service, then there will consequently be threats to decrease the real supply of that good or service

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

yep, knew it, they aren’t just lazy greedy bastards, they’re communists as well

So “competent, caring” GPs are “leaving the business” because of some crap in the media?

Seriously?

well we suppose as per Free Market Theoretics if there are threats to decrease the real price of a good or service, even if it’s a competent and caring service, then there will consequently be threats to decrease the real supply of that good or service

The retraining for the doctors leaving the business will be very simple. “Do you want fries with that”?

anyway we found the problem

well good to know that there are certain doctors providing low value care and rejecting the lights

we wonder how this arsehole seems to know so much about that stuff, takes one

SCIENCE said:

anyway we found the problem

well good to know that there are certain doctors providing low value care and rejecting the lights

we wonder how this arsehole seems to know so much about that stuff, takes one

Wait, are you talking about the UV lights we shine in our duodenums to prevent covid?

Tamb said:

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

So “competent, caring” GPs are “leaving the business” because of some crap in the media?

Seriously?

well we suppose as per Free Market Theoretics if there are threats to decrease the real price of a good or service, even if it’s a competent and caring service, then there will consequently be threats to decrease the real supply of that good or service

The retraining for the doctors leaving the business will be very simple. “Do you want fries with that”?

That or they’ll go into science teaching.

dv said:

SCIENCE said:

anyway we found the problem

well good to know that there are certain doctors providing low value care and rejecting the lights

we wonder how this arsehole seems to know so much about that stuff, takes one

Wait, are you talking about the UV lights we shine in our duodenums to prevent covid?

where there’s a market there’s an innovation waiting to happen

… if we just change that wavelength from 570 nm to 470 nm …

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tamb said:

SCIENCE said:

well we suppose as per Free Market Theoretics if there are threats to decrease the real price of a good or service, even if it’s a competent and caring service, then there will consequently be threats to decrease the real supply of that good or service

The retraining for the doctors leaving the business will be very simple. “Do you want fries with that”?

That or they’ll go into science teaching.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tamb said:

SCIENCE said:

well we suppose as per Free Market Theoretics if there are threats to decrease the real price of a good or service, even if it’s a competent and caring service, then there will consequently be threats to decrease the real supply of that good or service

The retraining for the doctors leaving the business will be very simple. “Do you want fries with that”?

That or they’ll go into science teaching.

I would assume most GPs leaving the profession are retiring.
For mine, the main issue is that most of them don’t bulk bill, which is bad for the community, and I suspect the reason for this is that the MBS Schedule payment is so low that it is just not worth it.

dv said:

SCIENCE said:

anyway we found the problem

well good to know that there are certain doctors providing low value care and rejecting the lights

we wonder how this arsehole seems to know so much about that stuff, takes one

Wait, are you talking about the UV lights we shine in our duodenums to prevent covid?

That was certainly a bum steer.

ChrispenEvan said:

dv said:

SCIENCE said:

Tamb said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Musical Handel

anyway we found the problem

well good to know that there are certain doctors providing low value care and rejecting the lights

we wonder how this arsehole seems to know so much about that stuff, takes one

Wait, are you talking about the UV lights we shine in our duodenums to prevent covid?

That was certainly a bum steer.

¿ and so it goes full circle … who doesn’t love handles ?

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tamb said:

The retraining for the doctors leaving the business will be very simple. “Do you want fries with that”?

That or they’ll go into science teaching.

I would assume most GPs leaving the profession are retiring.
For mine, the main issue is that most of them don’t bulk bill, which is bad for the community, and I suspect the reason for this is that the MBS Schedule payment is so low that it is just not worth it.

Nods. The problem with low numbers of GP’s us that they aren’t signing up for it because there’s no money in it for them.

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tamb said:

The retraining for the doctors leaving the business will be very simple. “Do you want fries with that”?

That or they’ll go into science teaching.

Good point :)

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

That or they’ll go into science teaching.

Good point :)

They are already pre-qualified for politics.

Tamb said:

They are already pre-qualified for politics.

here’s another one of those bastard lazy greedy communist goodfornothing GPs they’re talking about

roughbarked said:

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

That or they’ll go into science teaching.

I would assume most GPs leaving the profession are retiring.
For mine, the main issue is that most of them don’t bulk bill, which is bad for the community, and I suspect the reason for this is that the MBS Schedule payment is so low that it is just not worth it.

Nods. The problem with low numbers of GP’s us that they aren’t signing up for it because there’s no money in it for them.

Based on a salary survey in Australia, a full-time General Practitioner on average earns between $200,000 and $350,000 per annum. However, by working more shifts in the evenings, weekends, completing procedures and managing chronic disease patients, earnings could increase to $500,000+.

https://www.medicalrecruitment.com.au/doctors/gp-salary-guide-australia?source=google.com

They’re not exactly living in a box on the road.

sibeen said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

I would assume most GPs leaving the profession are retiring.
For mine, the main issue is that most of them don’t bulk bill, which is bad for the community, and I suspect the reason for this is that the MBS Schedule payment is so low that it is just not worth it.

Nods. The problem with low numbers of GP’s us that they aren’t signing up for it because there’s no money in it for them.

Based on a salary survey in Australia, a full-time General Practitioner on average earns between $200,000 and $350,000 per annum. However, by working more shifts in the evenings, weekends, completing procedures and managing chronic disease patients, earnings could increase to $500,000+.

https://www.medicalrecruitment.com.au/doctors/gp-salary-guide-australia?source=google.com

They’re not exactly living in a box on the road.

That’s not the point. Bulk billing, specifically, doesn’t pay well enough for it to be worth it for most of them, so they don’t do bulk bulling.

dv said:

sibeen said:

roughbarked said:

Nods. The problem with low numbers of GP’s us that they aren’t signing up for it because there’s no money in it for them.

Based on a salary survey in Australia, a full-time General Practitioner on average earns between $200,000 and $350,000 per annum. However, by working more shifts in the evenings, weekends, completing procedures and managing chronic disease patients, earnings could increase to $500,000+.

https://www.medicalrecruitment.com.au/doctors/gp-salary-guide-australia?source=google.com

They’re not exactly living in a box on the road.

That’s not the point. Bulk billing, specifically, doesn’t pay well enough for it to be worth it for most of them, so they don’t do bulk bulling.

also, we thought a lot of their clinics literally were boxes on the road, with all the attendant costs, so consuming most of that perceived higher level income

sibeen said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

I would assume most GPs leaving the profession are retiring.
For mine, the main issue is that most of them don’t bulk bill, which is bad for the community, and I suspect the reason for this is that the MBS Schedule payment is so low that it is just not worth it.

Nods. The problem with low numbers of GP’s us that they aren’t signing up for it because there’s no money in it for them.

Based on a salary survey in Australia, a full-time General Practitioner on average earns between $200,000 and $350,000 per annum. However, by working more shifts in the evenings, weekends, completing procedures and managing chronic disease patients, earnings could increase to $500,000+.

https://www.medicalrecruitment.com.au/doctors/gp-salary-guide-australia?source=google.com

They’re not exactly living in a box on the road.

Well considering that their particular shoebox did take longer to build than that tof he average electrician, who over his lifetime will earn more.

dv said:

sibeen said:

roughbarked said:

Nods. The problem with low numbers of GP’s us that they aren’t signing up for it because there’s no money in it for them.

Based on a salary survey in Australia, a full-time General Practitioner on average earns between $200,000 and $350,000 per annum. However, by working more shifts in the evenings, weekends, completing procedures and managing chronic disease patients, earnings could increase to $500,000+.

https://www.medicalrecruitment.com.au/doctors/gp-salary-guide-australia?source=google.com

They’re not exactly living in a box on the road.

That’s not the point. Bulk billing, specifically, doesn’t pay well enough for it to be worth it for most of them, so they don’t do bulk bulling.

Tthis is it.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

sibeen said:

Based on a salary survey in Australia, a full-time General Practitioner on average earns between $200,000 and $350,000 per annum. However, by working more shifts in the evenings, weekends, completing procedures and managing chronic disease patients, earnings could increase to $500,000+.

https://www.medicalrecruitment.com.au/doctors/gp-salary-guide-australia?source=google.com

They’re not exactly living in a box on the road.

That’s not the point. Bulk billing, specifically, doesn’t pay well enough for it to be worth it for most of them, so they don’t do bulk bulling.

Tthis is it.

But we are told that the % bulk billed has been increasing, and certainly the local doctors we go to went back to bulk billing for everyone fairly recently (a year or 3 ago)

Which brings me back to my original suggestion that the rorting may have been OK with the previous gov, as a way of hiding costs.

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

That’s not the point. Bulk billing, specifically, doesn’t pay well enough for it to be worth it for most of them, so they don’t do bulk bulling.

Tthis is it.

But we are told that the % bulk billed has been increasing, and certainly the local doctors we go to went back to bulk billing for everyone fairly recently (a year or 3 ago)

Which brings me back to my original suggestion that the rorting may have been OK with the previous gov, as a way of hiding costs.

Indeed on the latter, I’d be inclined to agree.

The big excess of bulk billing was also the Coalition way of dealing with the pandemic.

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

That’s not the point. Bulk billing, specifically, doesn’t pay well enough for it to be worth it for most of them, so they don’t do bulk bulling.

Tthis is it.

But we are told that the % bulk billed has been increasing, and certainly the local doctors we go to went back to bulk billing for everyone fairly recently (a year or 3 ago)

Which brings me back to my original suggestion that the rorting may have been OK with the previous gov, as a way of hiding costs.

That might be so.

But in this area, Perth’s northside, going by the Healthdirect website, about 25% of medical practices are bulkbillers.

sibeen said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

I would assume most GPs leaving the profession are retiring.
For mine, the main issue is that most of them don’t bulk bill, which is bad for the community, and I suspect the reason for this is that the MBS Schedule payment is so low that it is just not worth it.

Nods. The problem with low numbers of GP’s us that they aren’t signing up for it because there’s no money in it for them.

Based on a salary survey in Australia, a full-time General Practitioner on average earns between $200,000 and $350,000 per annum. However, by working more shifts in the evenings, weekends, completing procedures and managing chronic disease patients, earnings could increase to $500,000+.

https://www.medicalrecruitment.com.au/doctors/gp-salary-guide-australia?source=google.com

They’re not exactly living in a box on the road.

The problem is the invoicing mechanism. Bulk billing a patient places restrictions on what else you can do to cover the gap the between bulk billing fee and actual cost to see a patient, so what Drs do is not bulk bill in favour of billing the client the fee required to keep the practice finically viable.

roughbarked said:

sibeen said:

roughbarked said:

Nods. The problem with low numbers of GP’s us that they aren’t signing up for it because there’s no money in it for them.

Based on a salary survey in Australia, a full-time General Practitioner on average earns between $200,000 and $350,000 per annum. However, by working more shifts in the evenings, weekends, completing procedures and managing chronic disease patients, earnings could increase to $500,000+.

https://www.medicalrecruitment.com.au/doctors/gp-salary-guide-australia?source=google.com

They’re not exactly living in a box on the road.

Well considering that their particular shoebox did take longer to build than that tof he average electrician, who over his lifetime will earn more.

Rubbish.

sibeen said:

roughbarked said:

sibeen said:

Based on a salary survey in Australia, a full-time General Practitioner on average earns between $200,000 and $350,000 per annum. However, by working more shifts in the evenings, weekends, completing procedures and managing chronic disease patients, earnings could increase to $500,000+.

https://www.medicalrecruitment.com.au/doctors/gp-salary-guide-australia?source=google.com

They’re not exactly living in a box on the road.

Well considering that their particular shoebox did take longer to build than that tof he average electrician, who over his lifetime will earn more.

Rubbish.

The fact finder said so. I’m neither an electrician nor aGP.

sibeen said:

roughbarked said:

sibeen said:

Based on a salary survey in Australia, a full-time General Practitioner on average earns between $200,000 and $350,000 per annum. However, by working more shifts in the evenings, weekends, completing procedures and managing chronic disease patients, earnings could increase to $500,000+.

https://www.medicalrecruitment.com.au/doctors/gp-salary-guide-australia?source=google.com

They’re not exactly living in a box on the road.

Well considering that their particular shoebox did take longer to build than that tof he average electrician, who over his lifetime will earn more.

Rubbish.

agreed.. the earning potential of your average PAYE employed GP far exceeds the earning potential of your average PAYE electrician (or I’d wager, your average PAYE employed electrical engineer)

well

Medicare expert Dr Margaret Faux says the cosmetic surgery industry was the worst offender for inappropriate Medicare claims

roughbarked said:

sibeen said:

roughbarked said:

Well considering that their particular shoebox did take longer to build than that tof he average electrician, who over his lifetime will earn more.

Rubbish.

The fact finder said so. I’m neither an electrician nor aGP.

The internet tells me that the average base income for an electrician in Australia is $47.95/hour.

You need to work pretty long hours to get $300,000/year at that rate.

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

sibeen said:

Rubbish.

The fact finder said so. I’m neither an electrician nor aGP.

The internet tells me that the average base income for an electrician in Australia is $47.95/hour.

You need to work pretty long hours to get $300,000/year at that rate.

and yet other places quote rates of double that

Electricians were second only to boilermakers in our 2018 list of the top ten earning trades, and were comfortably ahead of plumbers in third place.

News.com.au contacted the ABS to see if tradies really are earning more than doctors. And we were shocked to find that in many cases, they are.

When we asked the (very helpful) people at the ABS about how much the average Australian GP earns we were taken to the detailed depths of the site.

Morning punters and correctors.
It’s Wednesday as you all, well most of you, know and we still haven’t got the inundation that the BOM dart throwers predicted for this week.

SCIENCE said:

well

Medicare expert Dr Margaret Faux says the cosmetic surgery industry was the worst offender for inappropriate Medicare claims

That is what she said.

Peak Warming Man said:

Morning punters and correctors.
It’s Wednesday as you all, well most of you, know and we still haven’t got the inundation that the BOM dart throwers predicted for this week.

It is called the Bureau now.

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

The fact finder said so. I’m neither an electrician nor aGP.

The internet tells me that the average base income for an electrician in Australia is $47.95/hour.

You need to work pretty long hours to get $300,000/year at that rate.

and yet other places quote rates of double that

and at the link from roughbarked, they quote rates of half that other

lol

as in, electricians at $100/h and GPs at $150000/y, in which case

SCIENCE said:

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

The internet tells me that the average base income for an electrician in Australia is $47.95/hour.

You need to work pretty long hours to get $300,000/year at that rate.

and yet other places quote rates of double that

and at the link from roughbarked, they quote rates of half that other

lol

as in, electricians at $100/h and GPs at $150000/y, in which case

Traderisk.com.au states that:

41% of trades workers earn between $50,000 to $75,000 32% earn between 75,000 – $100,000 Only 18% earn less than $50,000 9% earn $100,00 or more

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

SCIENCE said:

and yet other places quote rates of double that

and at the link from roughbarked, they quote rates of half that other

lol

as in, electricians at $100/h and GPs at $150000/y, in which case

Traderisk.com.au states that:

41% of trades workers earn between $50,000 to $75,000 32% earn between 75,000 – $100,000 Only 18% earn less than $50,000 9% earn $100,00 or more

so the numbers are so variable that the bullshit artists get away with claiming whatever they like damn

SCIENCE said:

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

and at the link from roughbarked, they quote rates of half that other

lol

as in, electricians at $100/h and GPs at $150000/y, in which case

Traderisk.com.au states that:

41% of trades workers earn between $50,000 to $75,000 32% earn between 75,000 – $100,000 Only 18% earn less than $50,000 9% earn $100,00 or more

so the numbers are so variable that the bullshit artists get away with claiming whatever they like damn

yes.

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

roughbarked said:

Traderisk.com.au states that:

41% of trades workers earn between $50,000 to $75,000 32% earn between 75,000 – $100,000 Only 18% earn less than $50,000 9% earn $100,00 or more

so the numbers are so variable that the bullshit artists get away with claiming whatever they like damn

yes.

Not really.

I’m pretty sure that more than 9% of doctor get more than $100,000/year.

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

so the numbers are so variable that the bullshit artists get away with claiming whatever they like damn

yes.

Not really.

I’m pretty sure that more than 9% of doctor get more than $100,000/year.

I do recall a fact check on the ABC that detailed it all and it came down to that over the lifetime the tradies could come out on top. It wasn’t necessarily about the $ per hour. There are a lot of other factors iinvolved.

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

yes.

Not really.

I’m pretty sure that more than 9% of doctor get more than $100,000/year.

I do recall a fact check on the ABC that detailed it all and it came down to that over the lifetime the tradies could come out on top. It wasn’t necessarily about the $ per hour. There are a lot of other factors iinvolved.

I call shenanigans on that

diddly-squat said:

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Not really.

I’m pretty sure that more than 9% of doctor get more than $100,000/year.

I do recall a fact check on the ABC that detailed it all and it came down to that over the lifetime the tradies could come out on top. It wasn’t necessarily about the $ per hour. There are a lot of other factors iinvolved.

I call shenanigans on that

I’m still trying to fiind it but I do remember reading it.

I always knew that after I became a doctor, I would dump whoever I was with and find someone better. That’s the dream of becoming a doctor.

Arts said:

I always knew that after I became a doctor, I would dump whoever I was with and find someone better. That’s the dream of becoming a doctor.

Could you please extrapolate on that?
Not if you don’t want to though. ;)

roughbarked said:

diddly-squat said:

roughbarked said:

I do recall a fact check on the ABC that detailed it all and it came down to that over the lifetime the tradies could come out on top. It wasn’t necessarily about the $ per hour. There are a lot of other factors iinvolved.

I call shenanigans on that

I’m still trying to fiind it but I do remember reading it.

Trouble is, the ABC doesn’t keep everything up forever. So I really should screen shot anything I ever want again?

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

I always knew that after I became a doctor, I would dump whoever I was with and find someone better. That’s the dream of becoming a doctor.

Could you please extrapolate on that?
Not if you don’t want to though. ;)

it’s a quote from Seinfeld.

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

I always knew that after I became a doctor, I would dump whoever I was with and find someone better. That’s the dream of becoming a doctor.

Could you please extrapolate on that?
Not if you don’t want to though. ;)

it’s a quote from Seinfeld.

Never watched it.

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

Could you please extrapolate on that?
Not if you don’t want to though. ;)

it’s a quote from Seinfeld.

Never watched it.

That’s my excuse.

Peak Warming Man said:

Morning punters and correctors.
It’s Wednesday as you all, well most of you, know and we still haven’t got the inundation that the BOM dart throwers predicted for this week.

SCIENCE said:

Without any context that means SFA.

What’s with aspen medical?

sibeen said:

SCIENCE said:

Without any context that means SFA.

What’s with aspen medical?

context: https://tokyo3.org/forums/holiday/topics/16308/

but d’n‘o’, you’ll have to ask Dr Kate Miller about all that

Doctors alone aren’t the probem, the system is