Famous glaciers will disappear by 2050 because of global warming, UNESCO says

Glaciers in Yosemite, Yellowstone, the Dolomites and Mount Kilimanjaro will melt by 2050. More will almost entirely disappear by 2100 unless the world drastically reduces carbon emissions, the agency says.
5m ago

Although people and countries are starting to act, realistically it is nowhere near enough to make a serious dent in co2 emissions and climate change. It appears to me we shall be leaving all the heavy lifting to following generations for such lame arguments that we will pay more for electricity and fuel for motor vehicles.

If we were to pay our way and take on some of the responsibility, we should be putting ourselves to much higher costs and inconvenience, simply we do not have time to fudge the figures anymore, things are becoming very serious, which should be obvious to all, yet our greed and standard of living apparently should not be compromised. In other words, we want our cake and eat it too, whilst looking in the opposite direction to where the looming catastrophe is coming from.

PermeateFree said:

Although people and countries are starting to act, realistically it is nowhere near enough to make a serious dent in co2 emissions and climate change. It appears to me we shall be leaving all the heavy lifting to following generations for such lame arguments that we will pay more for electricity and fuel for motor vehicles.

If we were to pay our way and take on some of the responsibility, we should be putting ourselves to much higher costs and inconvenience, simply we do not have time to fudge the figures anymore, things are becoming very serious, which should be obvious to all, yet our greed and standard of living apparently should not be compromised. In other words, we want our cake and eat it too, whilst looking in the opposite direction to where the looming catastrophe is coming from.

I could say you are preaching to the converted as I’ve been doing the best I can for most of my life which is both true and not.
I’m still driving a diesel powered vehicle and I could say that I am bound by restraints which are again both true and not.
I could walk or ride a pushbike to the doctor or the dentist but I’m getting older now and it is 15km to these appointments at the closest. Maybe I should be living in a concrete and brick flat without my extensive garden in town?

Most of the major emitters have serious reduction targets for 2030, so I should think by then we should have a good handle on whether there is a chance of success. CC denialist governments are, by and large, on the out at present.

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

Although people and countries are starting to act, realistically it is nowhere near enough to make a serious dent in co2 emissions and climate change. It appears to me we shall be leaving all the heavy lifting to following generations for such lame arguments that we will pay more for electricity and fuel for motor vehicles.

If we were to pay our way and take on some of the responsibility, we should be putting ourselves to much higher costs and inconvenience, simply we do not have time to fudge the figures anymore, things are becoming very serious, which should be obvious to all, yet our greed and standard of living apparently should not be compromised. In other words, we want our cake and eat it too, whilst looking in the opposite direction to where the looming catastrophe is coming from.

I could say you are preaching to the converted as I’ve been doing the best I can for most of my life which is both true and not.
I’m still driving a diesel powered vehicle and I could say that I am bound by restraints which are again both true and not.
I could walk or ride a pushbike to the doctor or the dentist but I’m getting older now and it is 15km to these appointments at the closest. Maybe I should be living in a concrete and brick flat without my extensive garden in town?

Note, I couldn’t afford an EV even if I could get one. As itis, if I converted my Triton to EV, I’d be stony broke and need to put a wind generator on the ute to be able to get to town and as buffy noted, I rarely get big windy days and if I do, they are usually a headwind on the pushbike.

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

Although people and countries are starting to act, realistically it is nowhere near enough to make a serious dent in co2 emissions and climate change. It appears to me we shall be leaving all the heavy lifting to following generations for such lame arguments that we will pay more for electricity and fuel for motor vehicles.

If we were to pay our way and take on some of the responsibility, we should be putting ourselves to much higher costs and inconvenience, simply we do not have time to fudge the figures anymore, things are becoming very serious, which should be obvious to all, yet our greed and standard of living apparently should not be compromised. In other words, we want our cake and eat it too, whilst looking in the opposite direction to where the looming catastrophe is coming from.

I could say you are preaching to the converted as I’ve been doing the best I can for most of my life which is both true and not.
I’m still driving a diesel powered vehicle and I could say that I am bound by restraints which are again both true and not.
I could walk or ride a pushbike to the doctor or the dentist but I’m getting older now and it is 15km to these appointments at the closest. Maybe I should be living in a concrete and brick flat without my extensive garden in town?

The problems are so large that the actions of ordinary people are not enough. Big things must happen and things changed like laws, restrictions imposed, encouragements and assistance to do the right thing introduced, plus national policies and commitment to do difficult things that many will not like.

dv said:

Most of the major emitters have serious reduction targets for 2030, so I should think by then we should have a good handle on whether there is a chance of success. CC denialist governments are, by and large, on the out at present.

True but as PF has pointed out, the margin is very slim.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Most of the major emitters have serious reduction targets for 2030, so I should think by then we should have a good handle on whether there is a chance of success. CC denialist governments are, by and large, on the out at present.

True but as PF has pointed out, the margin is very slim.

By this stage we are, in effect, choosing between catastrophes.

PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

Although people and countries are starting to act, realistically it is nowhere near enough to make a serious dent in co2 emissions and climate change. It appears to me we shall be leaving all the heavy lifting to following generations for such lame arguments that we will pay more for electricity and fuel for motor vehicles.

If we were to pay our way and take on some of the responsibility, we should be putting ourselves to much higher costs and inconvenience, simply we do not have time to fudge the figures anymore, things are becoming very serious, which should be obvious to all, yet our greed and standard of living apparently should not be compromised. In other words, we want our cake and eat it too, whilst looking in the opposite direction to where the looming catastrophe is coming from.

I could say you are preaching to the converted as I’ve been doing the best I can for most of my life which is both true and not.
I’m still driving a diesel powered vehicle and I could say that I am bound by restraints which are again both true and not.
I could walk or ride a pushbike to the doctor or the dentist but I’m getting older now and it is 15km to these appointments at the closest. Maybe I should be living in a concrete and brick flat without my extensive garden in town?

The problems are so large that the actions of ordinary people are not enough. Big things must happen and things changed like laws, restrictions imposed, encouragements and assistance to do the right thing introduced, plus national policies and commitment to do difficult things that many will not like.

Yes. This has been thus for much of my life. I made difficult choices back in the sixties and seventies. I do wish I had had Elon Musk’s monies. I could have changed the world but I didn’t.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Most of the major emitters have serious reduction targets for 2030, so I should think by then we should have a good handle on whether there is a chance of success. CC denialist governments are, by and large, on the out at present.

True but as PF has pointed out, the margin is very slim.

By this stage we are, in effect, choosing between catastrophes.

And that old shit can Putin has us by the balls. Thank Christ there are some serious cojones to pit against the madness.

dv said:

Most of the major emitters have serious reduction targets for 2030, so I should think by then we should have a good handle on whether there is a chance of success. CC denialist governments are, by and large, on the out at present.

That is just garbage that will have little effect on the direction of climate change, this sort of thing is just ignoring the enormous problem for someone else to solve. It needs the commitment of nations to understand the problem and do things urgently. To not put a fine point on it, climate change is introducing the 6th mass extinction event and we are part of it.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Most of the major emitters have serious reduction targets for 2030, so I should think by then we should have a good handle on whether there is a chance of success. CC denialist governments are, by and large, on the out at present.

That is just garbage that will have little effect on the direction of climate change, this sort of thing is just ignoring the enormous problem for someone else to solve. It needs the commitment of nations to understand the problem and do things urgently. To not put a fine point on it, climate change is introducing the 6th mass extinction event and we are part of it.

2030 is a bridge too far.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Most of the major emitters have serious reduction targets for 2030, so I should think by then we should have a good handle on whether there is a chance of success. CC denialist governments are, by and large, on the out at present.

True but as PF has pointed out, the margin is very slim.

By this stage we are, in effect, choosing between catastrophes.

We have no choice, either do something radical quickly, regardless of expense or go down saying I wish I had done something sooner.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

True but as PF has pointed out, the margin is very slim.

By this stage we are, in effect, choosing between catastrophes.

We have no choice, either do something radical quickly, regardless of expense or go down saying I wish I had done something sooner.

Look at the money we are chucking at PooTin.
We could be spending this anywhere more sensible.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Most of the major emitters have serious reduction targets for 2030, so I should think by then we should have a good handle on whether there is a chance of success. CC denialist governments are, by and large, on the out at present.

That is just garbage that will have little effect on the direction of climate change, this sort of thing is just ignoring the enormous problem for someone else to solve. It needs the commitment of nations to understand the problem and do things urgently. To not put a fine point on it, climate change is introducing the 6th mass extinction event and we are part of it.

Well I mean you can probably just roll it up as part of the general anthropogenic mass extinction event

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Most of the major emitters have serious reduction targets for 2030, so I should think by then we should have a good handle on whether there is a chance of success. CC denialist governments are, by and large, on the out at present.

That is just garbage that will have little effect on the direction of climate change, this sort of thing is just ignoring the enormous problem for someone else to solve. It needs the commitment of nations to understand the problem and do things urgently. To not put a fine point on it, climate change is introducing the 6th mass extinction event and we are part of it.

Well I mean you can probably just roll it up as part of the general anthropogenic mass extinction event

Not like you to back out so easily.

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Most of the major emitters have serious reduction targets for 2030, so I should think by then we should have a good handle on whether there is a chance of success. CC denialist governments are, by and large, on the out at present.

That is just garbage that will have little effect on the direction of climate change, this sort of thing is just ignoring the enormous problem for someone else to solve. It needs the commitment of nations to understand the problem and do things urgently. To not put a fine point on it, climate change is introducing the 6th mass extinction event and we are part of it.

Well I mean you can probably just roll it up as part of the general anthropogenic mass extinction event

And therein lies the attitude that will make what you say, only too true. In other words, getting people to save themselves by reducing their standard of living is hopeless and will never happen until it is actually taken from them.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

That is just garbage that will have little effect on the direction of climate change, this sort of thing is just ignoring the enormous problem for someone else to solve. It needs the commitment of nations to understand the problem and do things urgently. To not put a fine point on it, climate change is introducing the 6th mass extinction event and we are part of it.

Well I mean you can probably just roll it up as part of the general anthropogenic mass extinction event

Not like you to back out so easily.

lol, what’s the point of continuing?

roughbarked said:

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

That is just garbage that will have little effect on the direction of climate change, this sort of thing is just ignoring the enormous problem for someone else to solve. It needs the commitment of nations to understand the problem and do things urgently. To not put a fine point on it, climate change is introducing the 6th mass extinction event and we are part of it.

Well I mean you can probably just roll it up as part of the general anthropogenic mass extinction event

Not like you to back out so easily.

Back out? This extinction event has been going on for tens of thousands of years. It is now beyond doubt that there will be an uptick in the coming century. We are, as we say, choosing the severity at this point.
I find myself more optimistic now than I was, say, 5 years ago. There’s no way we are braking before 2degC but maybe we’ll end up more like 2.5 rather than 4.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

That is just garbage that will have little effect on the direction of climate change, this sort of thing is just ignoring the enormous problem for someone else to solve. It needs the commitment of nations to understand the problem and do things urgently. To not put a fine point on it, climate change is introducing the 6th mass extinction event and we are part of it.

Well I mean you can probably just roll it up as part of the general anthropogenic mass extinction event

And therein lies the attitude that will make what you say, only too true. In other words, getting people to save themselves by reducing their standard of living is hopeless and will never happen until it is actually taken from them.

Well it does seem you are somewhat more pessimistic than I but I suppose we’ll know soon enough, if not too soon.

JudgeMental said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Well I mean you can probably just roll it up as part of the general anthropogenic mass extinction event

Not like you to back out so easily.

lol, what’s the point of continuing?

Well as I was told today by a younger man. “You are OK, you’ll be dead by then”.
Then he went on to thiink about his own children. I could have talked about my grandchildren but waived that thought.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Well I mean you can probably just roll it up as part of the general anthropogenic mass extinction event

Not like you to back out so easily.

Back out? This extinction event has been going on for tens of thousands of years. It is now beyond doubt that there will be an uptick in the coming century. We are, as we say, choosing the severity at this point.
I find myself more optimistic now than I was, say, 5 years ago. There’s no way we are braking before 2degC but maybe we’ll end up more like 2.5 rather than 4.

My brother and I had this argument over Christmas dinner back in 1982. He said don’t worry, we will smooth our way to the end.

roughbarked said:

I could have talked about my grandchildren but waived that thought.

The ability, nay, the propensity to do that seems to be a requisite for elevation among our political leaders and ‘captains of industry’.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Well I mean you can probably just roll it up as part of the general anthropogenic mass extinction event

Not like you to back out so easily.

Back out? This extinction event has been going on for tens of thousands of years. It is now beyond doubt that there will be an uptick in the coming century. We are, as we say, choosing the severity at this point.
I find myself more optimistic now than I was, say, 5 years ago. There’s no way we are braking before 2degC but maybe we’ll end up more like 2.5 rather than 4.

Well you should be as we are currently on the edge of at least 2 tipping points, after which they happen, we have no say on the outcome. One is the melting Permafrost and the massive release of co2 and methane, and the other is the rapidly melting glaciers and rising sea levels. There are several more although currently not as serious as those two.

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

Not like you to back out so easily.

Back out? This extinction event has been going on for tens of thousands of years. It is now beyond doubt that there will be an uptick in the coming century. We are, as we say, choosing the severity at this point.
I find myself more optimistic now than I was, say, 5 years ago. There’s no way we are braking before 2degC but maybe we’ll end up more like 2.5 rather than 4.

Well you should be as we are currently on the edge of at least 2 tipping points, after which they happen, we have no say on the outcome. One is the melting Permafrost and the massive release of co2 and methane, and the other is the rapidly melting glaciers and rising sea levels. There are several more although currently not as serious as those two.

Yeah I am well aware

Even with the massive investments in wind/solar/tidal/CCS/etc, it’s hard to see even a gradual flattening of the increase year on year.

Kingy said:

Even with the massive investments in wind/solar/tidal/CCS/etc, it’s hard to see even a gradual flattening of the increase year on year.

We are really going to have to seriously shorten the food miles on the crap we eat.

Kingy said:

Even with the massive investments in wind/solar/tidal/CCS/etc, it’s hard to see even a gradual flattening of the increase year on year.

It’s probably something else.

Peak Warming Man said:

Kingy said:

Even with the massive investments in wind/solar/tidal/CCS/etc, it’s hard to see even a gradual flattening of the increase year on year.

It’s probably something else.

In all probability, are you sure of that?

Kingy said:

Even with the massive investments in wind/solar/tidal/CCS/etc, it’s hard to see even a gradual flattening of the increase year on year.

It’s not as if humanity is burning fossil fuels at a lesser rate. Western nations may have dropped a bit, but the slack has certainly been taken up by developing and third world nations.

roughbarked said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Kingy said:

Even with the massive investments in wind/solar/tidal/CCS/etc, it’s hard to see even a gradual flattening of the increase year on year.

It’s probably something else.

In all probability, are you sure of that?

With all the talk of burping cudswallop. What are the figures on the exhaled breath farts and burps of the population that eats of the bovine burpers?

sibeen said:

Kingy said:

Even with the massive investments in wind/solar/tidal/CCS/etc, it’s hard to see even a gradual flattening of the increase year on year.

It’s not as if humanity is burning fossil fuels at a lesser rate. Western nations may have dropped a bit, but the slack has certainly been taken up by developing and third world nations.

but, but, they should go without modern conveniences if we have to cut back a little.

sibeen said:

Kingy said:

Even with the massive investments in wind/solar/tidal/CCS/etc, it’s hard to see even a gradual flattening of the increase year on year.

It’s not as if humanity is burning fossil fuels at a lesser rate. Western nations may have dropped a bit, but the slack has certainly been taken up by developing and third world nations.

They whom are caught in the feedback loop.

dv said:

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Back out? This extinction event has been going on for tens of thousands of years. It is now beyond doubt that there will be an uptick in the coming century. We are, as we say, choosing the severity at this point.
I find myself more optimistic now than I was, say, 5 years ago. There’s no way we are braking before 2degC but maybe we’ll end up more like 2.5 rather than 4.

Well you should be as we are currently on the edge of at least 2 tipping points, after which they happen, we have no say on the outcome. One is the melting Permafrost and the massive release of co2 and methane, and the other is the rapidly melting glaciers and rising sea levels. There are several more although currently not as serious as those two.

Yeah I am well aware

Like many Environmental Scientists, Climate Scientists and Scientists generally who have been saying as strongly as they can that we are just around the corner from disaster but have experienced the same dismissive and disregard for what is coming. So, your attitude is not the exception but the rule and you and yours will have to live with it.

JudgeMental said:

sibeen said:

Kingy said:

Even with the massive investments in wind/solar/tidal/CCS/etc, it’s hard to see even a gradual flattening of the increase year on year.

It’s not as if humanity is burning fossil fuels at a lesser rate. Western nations may have dropped a bit, but the slack has certainly been taken up by developing and third world nations.

but, but, they should go without modern conveniences if we have to cut back a little.

What’s wrong with chucking another cardigan on?

I posted this in the Australian Electrical Energy thread about two weeks ago:

BP has issued their Statistical Review of World Energy.

https://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/energy-economics/statistical-review-of-world-energy.html

Energy developments
Primary energy demand increased by 5.8% in 2021, exceeding 2019 levels by 1.3%.
Between 2019 and 2021, renewable energy increased by over 8EJ. Consumption of fossil fuels was broadly unchanged.
Fossil fuels accounted for 82% of primary energy use last year, down from 83% in 2019 and 85% five years ago.

Coal
Coal prices rose dramatically in 2021, with European prices averaging $121/tonne and the Asian marker price averaging $145/t, its highest since 2008.
Coal consumption grew over 6% in 2021 to 160 EJ, slightly above 2019 levels and its highest level since 2014.
China and India accounted for over 70% of the growth in coal demand in 2021, increasing by 3.7 and 2.7 EJ, respectively.
Global production matched consumption with an increase in supply of 440mt. China and India accounted for much of the increase in production, which was largely consumed domestically, as well as Indonesia, supporting higher exports.
Notably, both Europe and North America showed an increase in coal consumption in 2021 after nearly 10 years of back-to-back declines.

roughbarked said:

JudgeMental said:

sibeen said:

It’s not as if humanity is burning fossil fuels at a lesser rate. Western nations may have dropped a bit, but the slack has certainly been taken up by developing and third world nations.

but, but, they should go without modern conveniences if we have to cut back a little.

What’s wrong with chucking another cardigan on?

hmmmm a choice, do i eat or chuck another cardie on?

Greta Thunberg speaks a great deal of sense and is an excellent spokeswoman for the people of her generation who will inherit the mess we will leave behind.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-11-03/greta-thunberg-tells-australia-wake-up-climate-cop27/101608018

Kingy said:

Even with the massive investments in wind/solar/tidal/CCS/etc, it’s hard to see even a gradual flattening of the increase year on year.

On a global scale there haven’t been massive investments yet…

The transition hopefully starts soon

sibeen said:

Kingy said:

Even with the massive investments in wind/solar/tidal/CCS/etc, it’s hard to see even a gradual flattening of the increase year on year.

It’s not as if humanity is burning fossil fuels at a lesser rate. Western nations may have dropped a bit, but the slack has certainly been taken up by developing and third world nations.

Yep. Best we could say is that things have kind of plateaued in terms of emissions.

dv said:

sibeen said:

Kingy said:

Even with the massive investments in wind/solar/tidal/CCS/etc, it’s hard to see even a gradual flattening of the increase year on year.

It’s not as if humanity is burning fossil fuels at a lesser rate. Western nations may have dropped a bit, but the slack has certainly been taken up by developing and third world nations.

Yep. Best we could say is that things have kind of plateaued in terms of emissions.

One thing I’d say…
This is the 2nd time you’ve said this exact thing, Kingy, and I can only think the subtext is that you think a huge amount has been spent on renewables compared to non-renewables, but it just isn’t true.

The New York Times
1 h ·
China’s greenhouse gas emissions rose last year at the fastest pace in a decade. And the country’s addiction to coal is likely to endure for years.
“There is no solution to climate change without reducing China’s coal combustion,” one expert said.

roughbarked said:

Famous glaciers will disappear by 2050 because of global warming, UNESCO says

Glaciers in Yosemite, Yellowstone, the Dolomites and Mount Kilimanjaro will melt by 2050. More will almost entirely disappear by 2100 unless the world drastically reduces carbon emissions, the agency says.
5m ago

I wonder how many people have already been killed by those glaciers?