i’d reckon evolution, notions approximating, can probably be safely generalized to be part of ideology, no small driver of human ideology, very much tied up with progress

perhaps it all starts with being impressed by the good work of the bulb on the shoulders, the impressions generated by the wetware computational apparatus, the mindtools variously gifted you by evolution, and you survived to be here, are descended of relatives that successfully did breed, you’re a winner enjoying the survival bias

on a larger scale there is the group thing, extending up to nearing eight billion humans if you have an attraction for viewing your own kind on those scales, though you hardly have a choice these days given prolific communications over vast distances, at the speed of light fairly much, well the speed of light through the aether and optical fibers, perhaps down a copper wire here and there, few nodes and whatever in there also slowing it down a little

moving on some now, there’s cultural evolution also, which isn’t entirely uninfluenced by notions of biological evolution, it’s certainly influenced by the reality humans did evolve

people can get the notion evolution is their friend from all sorts, nature documentaries for example

it would hardly be adaptive to consider it not your friend, surely, you’d possibly be on the road to becoming a socialist, a communist, or something equally bad or worse even if you for a moment started considering evolution is not your friend, if you braved the psychological conflict at all, to start with, whatever maladaptive

everyone’s an evolutionist these days, everyone wants to evolve and be part of something larger evolving

who’d want devolve

and here we are

on the precipice of nuclear war, polar ice melting (climate change), plague killed tens of millions recently, maimed probably many hundreds of millions, and centralized databases of peoples’ health records being compromised along with open consideration of paying ransoms

growing wealth disparity, economic uncertainty

but every day more are committed to something like evolution, it’s your friend

the present wars (plural) are promoting a high tech arms race, innovations, advancements, progress, evolution is your friend

is it like religion, this ideology

perhaps it’s time to devolve the trajectory some, at least consider the possibility evolution is not (entirely) your friend

these are intelligent designs though

I would expect a very generalised large-brained species like humans, who exhibit such a wide variety of beliefs and behaviours, to eventually split into different strains and evolve in many different directions.

But this will presumably require different interest groups to actually physically separate themselves from the rest, perhaps via space travel.

Bubblecar said:

I would expect a very generalised large-brained species like humans, who exhibit such a wide variety of beliefs and behaviours, to eventually split into different strains and evolve in many different directions.

But this will presumably require different interest groups to actually physically separate themselves from the rest, perhaps via space travel.

or geography but everyone knows that race is merely a sociological construct

SCIENCE said:

these are intelligent designs though

So you are crediting them with intelligence?

SCIENCE said:

Bubblecar said:

I would expect a very generalised large-brained species like humans, who exhibit such a wide variety of beliefs and behaviours, to eventually split into different strains and evolve in many different directions.

But this will presumably require different interest groups to actually physically separate themselves from the rest, perhaps via space travel.

or geography but everyone knows that race is merely a sociological construct

So the STARK reality is that Elon will colonise Mars and take Trump and Putin with him and forever afterwards they’ll be throwing missiles at us to destroy our infrastructure so that they can come back and dominate?

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

Bubblecar said:

I would expect a very generalised large-brained species like humans, who exhibit such a wide variety of beliefs and behaviours, to eventually split into different strains and evolve in many different directions.

But this will presumably require different interest groups to actually physically separate themselves from the rest, perhaps via space travel.

or geography but everyone knows that race is merely a sociological construct

So the STARK reality is that Elon will colonise Mars and take Trump and Putin with him and forever afterwards they’ll be throwing missiles at us to destroy our infrastructure so that they can come back and dominate?

¿may?

Just days after taking control of powerful social media giant Twitter Inc, billionaire Elon Musk has recommended that voters pick Republican candidates for Congress in Tuesday’s US midterm election.

One aspect of long-term evolution that is rarely discussed is the question of how it deals with a predator species that is so “fit” that it actually changes the global ecological balance so that the system as a whole is no longer sustainable.

The answer, it seems to me, is that in such a situation there will be a mass-extinction event, and in any sufficiently diverse ecosystem it is highly probable that the problem species will not survive this event, so evolution can start over, until the next time.

So yes, “evolution is your friend, except where it’s not” sums it up pretty well.

Of course, if the dominant species in question had the power to communicate between species members, and actually change its behaviour to make it sustainable (for longer), then that might change everything.

But whether such a level of intelligence could ever evolve in a real evolutionary system is pretty doubtful I suppose.

The Rev Dodgson said:

One aspect of long-term evolution that is rarely discussed is the question of how it deals with a predator species that is so “fit” that it actually changes the global ecological balance so that the system as a whole is no longer sustainable.

The answer, it seems to me, is that in such a situation there will be a mass-extinction event, and in any sufficiently diverse ecosystem it is highly probable that the problem species will not survive this event, so evolution can start over, until the next time.

So yes, “evolution is your friend, except where it’s not” sums it up pretty well.

Of course, if the dominant species in question had the power to communicate between species members, and actually change its behaviour to make it sustainable (for longer), then that might change everything.

But whether such a level of intelligence could ever evolve in a real evolutionary system is pretty doubtful I suppose.

the global ecological balance has always changed and so the system as a whole has never been sustainable

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

One aspect of long-term evolution that is rarely discussed is the question of how it deals with a predator species that is so “fit” that it actually changes the global ecological balance so that the system as a whole is no longer sustainable.

The answer, it seems to me, is that in such a situation there will be a mass-extinction event, and in any sufficiently diverse ecosystem it is highly probable that the problem species will not survive this event, so evolution can start over, until the next time.

So yes, “evolution is your friend, except where it’s not” sums it up pretty well.

Of course, if the dominant species in question had the power to communicate between species members, and actually change its behaviour to make it sustainable (for longer), then that might change everything.

But whether such a level of intelligence could ever evolve in a real evolutionary system is pretty doubtful I suppose.

the global ecological balance has always changed and so the system as a whole has never been sustainable

Thus earth abides.

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

One aspect of long-term evolution that is rarely discussed is the question of how it deals with a predator species that is so “fit” that it actually changes the global ecological balance so that the system as a whole is no longer sustainable.

The answer, it seems to me, is that in such a situation there will be a mass-extinction event, and in any sufficiently diverse ecosystem it is highly probable that the problem species will not survive this event, so evolution can start over, until the next time.

So yes, “evolution is your friend, except where it’s not” sums it up pretty well.

Of course, if the dominant species in question had the power to communicate between species members, and actually change its behaviour to make it sustainable (for longer), then that might change everything.

But whether such a level of intelligence could ever evolve in a real evolutionary system is pretty doubtful I suppose.

the global ecological balance has always changed and so the system as a whole has never been sustainable

Nonetheless, it has sustained for a few billion years.

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

One aspect of long-term evolution that is rarely discussed is the question of how it deals with a predator species that is so “fit” that it actually changes the global ecological balance so that the system as a whole is no longer sustainable.

The answer, it seems to me, is that in such a situation there will be a mass-extinction event, and in any sufficiently diverse ecosystem it is highly probable that the problem species will not survive this event, so evolution can start over, until the next time.

So yes, “evolution is your friend, except where it’s not” sums it up pretty well.

Of course, if the dominant species in question had the power to communicate between species members, and actually change its behaviour to make it sustainable (for longer), then that might change everything.

But whether such a level of intelligence could ever evolve in a real evolutionary system is pretty doubtful I suppose.

the global ecological balance has always changed and so the system as a whole has never been sustainable

Nonetheless, it has sustained for a few billion years.

so we agree that massive extinction events and large part restarts is part of that sustainability

The Rev Dodgson said:

One aspect of long-term evolution that is rarely discussed is the question of how it deals with a predator species that is so “fit” that it actually changes the global ecological balance so that the system as a whole is no longer sustainable.

The answer, it seems to me, is that in such a situation there will be a mass-extinction event, and in any sufficiently diverse ecosystem it is highly probable that the problem species will not survive this event, so evolution can start over, until the next time.

So yes, “evolution is your friend, except where it’s not” sums it up pretty well.

Of course, if the dominant species in question had the power to communicate between species members, and actually change its behaviour to make it sustainable (for longer), then that might change everything.

But whether such a level of intelligence could ever evolve in a real evolutionary system is pretty doubtful I suppose.

or is’t that when a (free-running) replicator harnesses all the energy it needs to overcome all restraints of geographic barriers(isolation) that there’s automatically a problem, automatically a problem with it being uncontained

and further, down the track, humans will develop the same troubles as an ungrounded, unhinged AI, with the assistance of AI, evolution will be subordinate to nothing, and ‘liberty’ will migrate into that

transition said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

One aspect of long-term evolution that is rarely discussed is the question of how it deals with a predator species that is so “fit” that it actually changes the global ecological balance so that the system as a whole is no longer sustainable.

The answer, it seems to me, is that in such a situation there will be a mass-extinction event, and in any sufficiently diverse ecosystem it is highly probable that the problem species will not survive this event, so evolution can start over, until the next time.

So yes, “evolution is your friend, except where it’s not” sums it up pretty well.

Of course, if the dominant species in question had the power to communicate between species members, and actually change its behaviour to make it sustainable (for longer), then that might change everything.

But whether such a level of intelligence could ever evolve in a real evolutionary system is pretty doubtful I suppose.

or is’t that when a (free-running) replicator harnesses all the energy it needs to overcome all restraints of geographic barriers(isolation) that there’s automatically a problem, automatically a problem with it being uncontained

and further, down the track, humans will develop the same troubles as an ungrounded, unhinged AI, with the assistance of AI, evolution will be subordinate to nothing, and ‘liberty’ will migrate into that

geographic barriers I mean to mean different regional climates etc also

SCIENCE said:

Bubblecar said:

I would expect a very generalised large-brained species like humans, who exhibit such a wide variety of beliefs and behaviours, to eventually split into different strains and evolve in many different directions.

But this will presumably require different interest groups to actually physically separate themselves from the rest, perhaps via space travel.

or geography but everyone knows that race is merely a sociological construct

Given the ease of international travel, and the extent of migration and interethnic marriage, no. Human speciation won’t happen on Earth.

dv said:

SCIENCE said:

Bubblecar said:

I would expect a very generalised large-brained species like humans, who exhibit such a wide variety of beliefs and behaviours, to eventually split into different strains and evolve in many different directions.

But this will presumably require different interest groups to actually physically separate themselves from the rest, perhaps via space travel.

or geography but everyone knows that race is merely a sociological construct

Given the ease of international travel, and the extent of migration and interethnic marriage, no. Human speciation won’t happen on Earth.

Pity, all those COVID-19 lockdowns and travel restrictions could have made an amazing new biological study experience.

From evolutions point of view, intelligence is a dead end, as at least one species that seems to have it can bring about is own destruction in a short period of time from its own existence.

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

Bubblecar said:

I would expect a very generalised large-brained species like humans, who exhibit such a wide variety of beliefs and behaviours, to eventually split into different strains and evolve in many different directions.

But this will presumably require different interest groups to actually physically separate themselves from the rest, perhaps via space travel.

or geography but everyone knows that race is merely a sociological construct

So the STARK reality is that Elon will colonise Mars and take Trump and Putin with him and forever afterwards they’ll be throwing missiles at us to destroy our infrastructure so that they can come back and dominate?

It’s a pity that its likely fuckwits will colonise and develop Mars when it should be a chance for humanity to cooperate and build something better.

Cymek said:

From evolutions point of view, intelligence is a dead end, as at least one species that seems to have it can bring about is own destruction in a short period of time from its own existence.

It’s all delaying the inevitable anyway, what’s a little heat death between friends¿

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

or geography but everyone knows that race is merely a sociological construct

So the STARK reality is that Elon will colonise Mars and take Trump and Putin with him and forever afterwards they’ll be throwing missiles at us to destroy our infrastructure so that they can come back and dominate?

It’s a pity that its likely fuckwits will colonise and develop Mars when it should be a chance for humanity to cooperate and build something better.

Why would Mars only attract fuckwits?

SCIENCE said:

Cymek said:

From evolutions point of view, intelligence is a dead end, as at least one species that seems to have it can bring about is own destruction in a short period of time from its own existence.

It’s all delaying the inevitable anyway, what’s a little heat death between friends¿

I think that current humans perhaps need to be genetically engineered to be more mentally resilient and less aggressive and/or find a way to reset our brains from trauma and destructive learned behaviours

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

Cymek said:

From evolutions point of view, intelligence is a dead end, as at least one species that seems to have it can bring about is own destruction in a short period of time from its own existence.

It’s all delaying the inevitable anyway, what’s a little heat death between friends¿

I think that current humans perhaps need to be genetically engineered to be more mentally resilient and less aggressive and/or find a way to reset our brains from trauma and destructive learned behaviours

Miranda.

Evolution is largely governed by the condition of the environment and how we can adapt to it. We are currently changing the environment and not to our choosing via global warming, and we are physically, economically and sustainably not suited to this changing situation and are very likely to perish unless it can be severely mitigated. In other words, we might have reached the end of our evolutionary development where only time and our urgent action might influence the outcome.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

So the STARK reality is that Elon will colonise Mars and take Trump and Putin with him and forever afterwards they’ll be throwing missiles at us to destroy our infrastructure so that they can come back and dominate?

It’s a pity that its likely fuckwits will colonise and develop Mars when it should be a chance for humanity to cooperate and build something better.

Why would Mars only attract fuckwits?

Well when the moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter aligns with Mars………………

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

So the STARK reality is that Elon will colonise Mars and take Trump and Putin with him and forever afterwards they’ll be throwing missiles at us to destroy our infrastructure so that they can come back and dominate?

It’s a pity that its likely fuckwits will colonise and develop Mars when it should be a chance for humanity to cooperate and build something better.

Why would Mars only attract fuckwits?

The above that Bubblecar said

Cymek said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

It’s a pity that its likely fuckwits will colonise and develop Mars when it should be a chance for humanity to cooperate and build something better.

Why would Mars only attract fuckwits?

The above that Bubblecar said

I suppose it depends on how its done
Is it another space race were it’s competition and resource grab and protect or cooperation which makes more sense

Cymek said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

It’s a pity that its likely fuckwits will colonise and develop Mars when it should be a chance for humanity to cooperate and build something better.

Why would Mars only attract fuckwits?

The above that Bubblecar said

Bubblecar has only commented about speciation in this thread.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Why would Mars only attract fuckwits?

The above that Bubblecar said

Bubblecar has only commented about speciation in this thread.

Sorry. I didn’t see you were responding to group of posts that started with Car. I don’t really understand your contention though.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

The above that Bubblecar said

Bubblecar has only commented about speciation in this thread.

Sorry. I didn’t see you were responding to group of posts that started with Car. I don’t really understand your contention though.

It’s more of a minor whinge

Peak Warming Man said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

It’s a pity that its likely fuckwits will colonise and develop Mars when it should be a chance for humanity to cooperate and build something better.

Why would Mars only attract fuckwits?

Well when the moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter aligns with Mars………………

and Men named Elon are drom Mars.

PermeateFree said:

Evolution is largely governed by the condition of the environment and how we can adapt to it. We are currently changing the environment and not to our choosing via global warming, and we are physically, economically and sustainably not suited to this changing situation and are very likely to perish unless it can be severely mitigated. In other words, we might have reached the end of our evolutionary development where only time and our urgent action might influence the outcome.

+1

evolution is random
conditions change and only the organism
that produces a change that increases the survival probability
will go on to pass on that change … problem is that those small advantages
may take too long to perpetuate to head off the eminent danger and thus end in extinction.

iow, if the conditions change faster than any organism can evolve to deal with it it’s wiped out.

with multiple tipping points having been reached in less than 200 years it don’t look good.

Ogmog said:

PermeateFree said:

Evolution is largely governed by the condition of the environment and how we can adapt to it. We are currently changing the environment and not to our choosing via global warming, and we are physically, economically and sustainably not suited to this changing situation and are very likely to perish unless it can be severely mitigated. In other words, we might have reached the end of our evolutionary development where only time and our urgent action might influence the outcome.

+1

evolution is random
conditions change and only the organism
that produces a change that increases the survival probability
will go on to pass on that change … problem is that those small advantages
may take too long to perpetuate to head off the eminent danger and thus end in extinction.

iow, if the conditions change faster than any organism can evolve to deal with it it’s wiped out.

with multiple tipping points having been reached in less than 200 years it don’t look good.

Does proof exist that evolution can make huge mutations if conditions change drastically enough, decades instead of far longer.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

So the STARK reality is that Elon will colonise Mars and take Trump and Putin with him and forever afterwards they’ll be throwing missiles at us to destroy our infrastructure so that they can come back and dominate?

It’s a pity that its likely fuckwits will colonise and develop Mars when it should be a chance for humanity to cooperate and build something better.

Why would Mars only attract fuckwits?

‘cause only self interested narcissistic rich (fuckwits) can afford it

Cymek said:

Ogmog said:

PermeateFree said:

Evolution is largely governed by the condition of the environment and how we can adapt to it. We are currently changing the environment and not to our choosing via global warming, and we are physically, economically and sustainably not suited to this changing situation and are very likely to perish unless it can be severely mitigated. In other words, we might have reached the end of our evolutionary development where only time and our urgent action might influence the outcome.

+1

evolution is random
conditions change and only the organism
that produces a change that increases the survival probability
will go on to pass on that change … problem is that those small advantages
may take too long to perpetuate to head off the eminent danger and thus end in extinction.

iow, if the conditions change faster than any organism can evolve to deal with it it’s wiped out.

with multiple tipping points having been reached in less than 200 years it don’t look good.

Does proof exist that evolution can make huge mutations if conditions change drastically enough, decades instead of far longer.

Water Dragons in isolated communities in Brisbane have been evolving as we watched.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

So the STARK reality is that Elon will colonise Mars and take Trump and Putin with him and forever afterwards they’ll be throwing missiles at us to destroy our infrastructure so that they can come back and dominate?

It’s a pity that its likely fuckwits will colonise and develop Mars when it should be a chance for humanity to cooperate and build something better.

Why would Mars only attract fuckwits?

if it did then they would quickly die. which in itself might not be a bad thing.

JudgeMental said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

It’s a pity that its likely fuckwits will colonise and develop Mars when it should be a chance for humanity to cooperate and build something better.

Why would Mars only attract fuckwits?

if it did then they would quickly die. which in itself might not be a bad thing.

Musk flies to Mars, gets hit by a car.

JudgeMental said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

It’s a pity that its likely fuckwits will colonise and develop Mars when it should be a chance for humanity to cooperate and build something better.

Why would Mars only attract fuckwits?

if it did then they would quickly die. which in itself might not be a bad thing.

They don’t expect to come back to earth.

(do I hear someone whispering “covid”?)

Evolution tends to create more complex organisms …

… except when it doesn’t.