consider common communications evolved (or devolved) to accommodate the least native intelligence across a population

imagine the situation that the news you watch is made for, or for the equivalent of a four year old to ‘understand’

the math requirements, the English requirements, psychological mindedness, whatever

it’s inclusive, even people with quite progressed dementia wouldn’t feel too alienated, possibly not at all, no doubt TV is a big comfort in old folks homes

so where does it all go, civilization I mean, the trajectory, if the shared thing turns hostile toward native intelligence

clearly some of native intelligence exists courtesy of and develops from an unshared dimension involving experience

I mean how far would native intelligence go, could it even persist and operate, or be conceived of existing, if the unshared dimension were not acknowledged, if there were a cultural hostility toward it

transition said:

consider common communications evolved (or devolved) to accommodate the least native intelligence across a population

imagine the situation that the news you watch is made for, or for the equivalent of a four year old to ‘understand’

the math requirements, the English requirements, psychological mindedness, whatever

it’s inclusive, even people with quite progressed dementia wouldn’t feel too alienated, possibly not at all, no doubt TV is a big comfort in old folks homes

so where does it all go, civilization I mean, the trajectory, if the shared thing turns hostile toward native intelligence

clearly some of native intelligence exists courtesy of and develops from an unshared dimension involving experience

I mean how far would native intelligence go, could it even persist and operate, or be conceived of existing, if the unshared dimension were not acknowledged, if there were a cultural hostility toward it

I’m sorry to hear things are going so badly in your Universe transition.

In the Universe over here communications continue to have a wide range of different intelligence levels, in fact if anything I’d say the range was increasing.

Maybe you should pop over and have a look.

transition said:

consider common communications evolved (or devolved) to accommodate the least native intelligence across a population

imagine the situation that the news you watch is made for, or for the equivalent of a four year old to ‘understand’

the math requirements, the English requirements, psychological mindedness, whatever

it’s inclusive, even people with quite progressed dementia wouldn’t feel too alienated, possibly not at all, no doubt TV is a big comfort in old folks homes

so where does it all go, civilization I mean, the trajectory, if the shared thing turns hostile toward native intelligence

clearly some of native intelligence exists courtesy of and develops from an unshared dimension involving experience

I mean how far would native intelligence go, could it even persist and operate, or be conceived of existing, if the unshared dimension were not acknowledged, if there were a cultural hostility toward it

All the electromagnetic energy of humanity ends up back in the ground.

When a person dies their energy goes back into the ground.

I often wonder what the electrical properties of humanity are, the sum total of all of humanities energy that ever existed.

Compare that to the sum total of every lightning strike on Earth from prehistorical earth up to the present day earth.

4.543 billion years x 1.4 billion flashes per year. A lightning bolt averages around 300 million Volts and about 30,000 Amps

“unshared dimension” – Please use in a sentence.

standards

Woodie said:

“unshared dimension” – Please use in a sentence.

Woodie asked us all to use “unshared dimension” in a sentence.

Happy to oblige.

transition said:

consider common communications evolved (or devolved) to accommodate the least native intelligence across a population

imagine the situation that the news you watch is made for, or for the equivalent of a four year old to ‘understand’

the math requirements, the English requirements, psychological mindedness, whatever

it’s inclusive, even people with quite progressed dementia wouldn’t feel too alienated, possibly not at all, no doubt TV is a big comfort in old folks homes

so where does it all go, civilization I mean, the trajectory, if the shared thing turns hostile toward native intelligence

clearly some of native intelligence exists courtesy of and develops from an unshared dimension involving experience

I mean how far would native intelligence go, could it even persist and operate, or be conceived of existing, if the unshared dimension were not acknowledged, if there were a cultural hostility toward it

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level, that means they never progressed beyond concrete thinking and don’t know how Murdoch is or that he owns 70% of our newspapers.

Government websites in Queensland are written for 3rd Grade level in order to get the information out there.

Woodie said:

“unshared dimension” – Please use in a sentence.

At the cessation of their conversation Shalmalee reflected that Bob had revealed an unshared dimension of his cultural and social capital. She had known he was gay, what she didn’t know was that he was also an awesome Star Trek fan.

ms spock said:

transition said:

consider common communications evolved (or devolved) to accommodate the least native intelligence across a population

imagine the situation that the news you watch is made for, or for the equivalent of a four year old to ‘understand’

the math requirements, the English requirements, psychological mindedness, whatever

it’s inclusive, even people with quite progressed dementia wouldn’t feel too alienated, possibly not at all, no doubt TV is a big comfort in old folks homes

so where does it all go, civilization I mean, the trajectory, if the shared thing turns hostile toward native intelligence

clearly some of native intelligence exists courtesy of and develops from an unshared dimension involving experience

I mean how far would native intelligence go, could it even persist and operate, or be conceived of existing, if the unshared dimension were not acknowledged, if there were a cultural hostility toward it

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level, that means they never progressed beyond concrete thinking and don’t know how Murdoch is or that he owns 70% of our newspapers.

Government websites in Queensland are written for 3rd Grade level in order to get the information out there.

“that means they never progressed beyond concrete thinking”

Does it?

How do you know that?

Is the level of “concrete thinking” even well defined?

And I don’t know how Murdoch is either, or care very much.

ms spock said:

transition said:

consider common communications evolved (or devolved) to accommodate the least native intelligence across a population

imagine the situation that the news you watch is made for, or for the equivalent of a four year old to ‘understand’

the math requirements, the English requirements, psychological mindedness, whatever

it’s inclusive, even people with quite progressed dementia wouldn’t feel too alienated, possibly not at all, no doubt TV is a big comfort in old folks homes

so where does it all go, civilization I mean, the trajectory, if the shared thing turns hostile toward native intelligence

clearly some of native intelligence exists courtesy of and develops from an unshared dimension involving experience

I mean how far would native intelligence go, could it even persist and operate, or be conceived of existing, if the unshared dimension were not acknowledged, if there were a cultural hostility toward it

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level, that means they never progressed beyond concrete thinking and don’t know how Murdoch is or that he owns 70% of our newspapers.

Government websites in Queensland are written for 3rd Grade level in order to get the information out there.

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level

Is there something to back that stat up?

sibeen said:

ms spock said:

transition said:

consider common communications evolved (or devolved) to accommodate the least native intelligence across a population

imagine the situation that the news you watch is made for, or for the equivalent of a four year old to ‘understand’

the math requirements, the English requirements, psychological mindedness, whatever

it’s inclusive, even people with quite progressed dementia wouldn’t feel too alienated, possibly not at all, no doubt TV is a big comfort in old folks homes

so where does it all go, civilization I mean, the trajectory, if the shared thing turns hostile toward native intelligence

clearly some of native intelligence exists courtesy of and develops from an unshared dimension involving experience

I mean how far would native intelligence go, could it even persist and operate, or be conceived of existing, if the unshared dimension were not acknowledged, if there were a cultural hostility toward it

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level, that means they never progressed beyond concrete thinking and don’t know how Murdoch is or that he owns 70% of our newspapers.

Government websites in Queensland are written for 3rd Grade level in order to get the information out there.

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level

Is there something to back that stat up?

From: https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/education/programme-international-assessment-adult-competencies-australia/latest-release

Unfortumately, they don’t equate the literacy levels in the chart with any school reading age, but this does show that Queenslanders are about the Australian average in literacy levels.

don’t know but we just had a chat with someone from overseas who asked wtf our education was here, the high school content is what they do in primary school

sibeen said:

sibeen said:

ms spock said:

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level, that means they never progressed beyond concrete thinking and don’t know how Murdoch is or that he owns 70% of our newspapers.

Government websites in Queensland are written for 3rd Grade level in order to get the information out there.

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level

Is there something to back that stat up?

From: https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/education/programme-international-assessment-adult-competencies-australia/latest-release

Unfortumately, they don’t equate the literacy levels in the chart with any school reading age, but this does show that Queenslanders are about the Australian average in literacy levels.

just for elucidation on Level 3

You should be able to use a range of reading strategies to evaluate and integrate information
and ideas to construct meaning from a range of text types, as well as communicate ideas and
information in writing, using appropriate vocabulary, grammar, punctuation and reasonably
accurate spelling. This level is the Australian adult average for reading. You will have no
problem completing most Certificate IV qualifications

sibeen said:

sibeen said:

ms spock said:

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level, that means they never progressed beyond concrete thinking and don’t know how Murdoch is or that he owns 70% of our newspapers.

Government websites in Queensland are written for 3rd Grade level in order to get the information out there.

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level

Is there something to back that stat up?

From: https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/education/programme-international-assessment-adult-competencies-australia/latest-release

Unfortumately, they don’t equate the literacy levels in the chart with any school reading age, but this does show that Queenslanders are about the Australian average in literacy levels.

This site gives a better breakdown:

https://www.stylemanual.gov.au/accessible-and-inclusive-content/literacy-and-access

sibeen said:

sibeen said:

ms spock said:

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level, that means they never progressed beyond concrete thinking and don’t know how Murdoch is or that he owns 70% of our newspapers.

Government websites in Queensland are written for 3rd Grade level in order to get the information out there.

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level

Is there something to back that stat up?

From: https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/education/programme-international-assessment-adult-competencies-australia/latest-release

Unfortumately, they don’t equate the literacy levels in the chart with any school reading age, but this does show that Queenslanders are about the Australian average in literacy levels.

Google says literacy level 3 is “years 11 and 12”.

ChrispenEvan said:

sibeen said:

sibeen said:

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level

Is there something to back that stat up?

From: https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/education/programme-international-assessment-adult-competencies-australia/latest-release

Unfortumately, they don’t equate the literacy levels in the chart with any school reading age, but this does show that Queenslanders are about the Australian average in literacy levels.

just for elucidation on Level 3

You should be able to use a range of reading strategies to evaluate and integrate information
and ideas to construct meaning from a range of text types, as well as communicate ideas and
information in writing, using appropriate vocabulary, grammar, punctuation and reasonably
accurate spelling. This level is the Australian adult average for reading. You will have no
problem completing most Certificate IV qualifications

Can you explain that like I am 5?

sibeen said:

sibeen said:

ms spock said:

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level, that means they never progressed beyond concrete thinking and don’t know how Murdoch is or that he owns 70% of our newspapers.

Government websites in Queensland are written for 3rd Grade level in order to get the information out there.

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level

Is there something to back that stat up?

From: https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/education/programme-international-assessment-adult-competencies-australia/latest-release

Unfortumately, they don’t equate the literacy levels in the chart with any school reading age, but this does show that Queenslanders are about the Australian average in literacy levels.

I work in literacy, remember. If that is ACSF Reading level 3, then that is about year 9 at school. You should have ASCF Reading level 3 to understand the requirements of a Cert III.

Dark Orange said:

ChrispenEvan said:

sibeen said:

From: https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/education/programme-international-assessment-adult-competencies-australia/latest-release

Unfortumately, they don’t equate the literacy levels in the chart with any school reading age, but this does show that Queenslanders are about the Australian average in literacy levels.

just for elucidation on Level 3

You should be able to use a range of reading strategies to evaluate and integrate information
and ideas to construct meaning from a range of text types, as well as communicate ideas and
information in writing, using appropriate vocabulary, grammar, punctuation and reasonably
accurate spelling. This level is the Australian adult average for reading. You will have no
problem completing most Certificate IV qualifications

Can you explain that like I am 5?

Sorry but my literacy level is so high i find it difficult to use simple words to explain complex concepts.

ChrispenEvan said:

sibeen said:

sibeen said:

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level

Is there something to back that stat up?

From: https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/education/programme-international-assessment-adult-competencies-australia/latest-release

Unfortumately, they don’t equate the literacy levels in the chart with any school reading age, but this does show that Queenslanders are about the Australian average in literacy levels.

just for elucidation on Level 3

You should be able to use a range of reading strategies to evaluate and integrate information
and ideas to construct meaning from a range of text types, as well as communicate ideas and
information in writing, using appropriate vocabulary, grammar, punctuation and reasonably
accurate spelling. This level is the Australian adult average for reading. You will have no
problem completing most Certificate IV qualifications

cert IV will give you a university entrance score of 70

ChrispenEvan said:

Dark Orange said:

ChrispenEvan said:

just for elucidation on Level 3

You should be able to use a range of reading strategies to evaluate and integrate information
and ideas to construct meaning from a range of text types, as well as communicate ideas and
information in writing, using appropriate vocabulary, grammar, punctuation and reasonably
accurate spelling. This level is the Australian adult average for reading. You will have no
problem completing most Certificate IV qualifications

Can you explain that like I am 5?

Sorry but my literacy level is so high i find it difficult to use simple words to explain complex concepts.

Why use a big word when a diminutive utterance would suffice?

Arts said:

ChrispenEvan said:

sibeen said:

From: https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/education/programme-international-assessment-adult-competencies-australia/latest-release

Unfortumately, they don’t equate the literacy levels in the chart with any school reading age, but this does show that Queenslanders are about the Australian average in literacy levels.

just for elucidation on Level 3

You should be able to use a range of reading strategies to evaluate and integrate information
and ideas to construct meaning from a range of text types, as well as communicate ideas and
information in writing, using appropriate vocabulary, grammar, punctuation and reasonably
accurate spelling. This level is the Australian adult average for reading. You will have no
problem completing most Certificate IV qualifications

cert IV will give you a university entrance score of 70

What courses would that get you into?

sibeen said:

Arts said:

ChrispenEvan said:

just for elucidation on Level 3

You should be able to use a range of reading strategies to evaluate and integrate information
and ideas to construct meaning from a range of text types, as well as communicate ideas and
information in writing, using appropriate vocabulary, grammar, punctuation and reasonably
accurate spelling. This level is the Australian adult average for reading. You will have no
problem completing most Certificate IV qualifications

cert IV will give you a university entrance score of 70

What courses would that get you into?

probably arts.

ChrispenEvan said:

sibeen said:

Arts said:

cert IV will give you a university entrance score of 70

What courses would that get you into?

probably arts.

snigger

sibeen said:

Arts said:

ChrispenEvan said:

just for elucidation on Level 3

You should be able to use a range of reading strategies to evaluate and integrate information
and ideas to construct meaning from a range of text types, as well as communicate ideas and
information in writing, using appropriate vocabulary, grammar, punctuation and reasonably
accurate spelling. This level is the Australian adult average for reading. You will have no
problem completing most Certificate IV qualifications

cert IV will give you a university entrance score of 70

What courses would that get you into?

for our university almost all of them apart from Law, Engineering and Vet

Arts said:

sibeen said:

Arts said:

cert IV will give you a university entrance score of 70

What courses would that get you into?

for our university almost all of them apart from Law, Engineering and Vet

Engineering is at the level of law and vet now?

How things change.

Memory from my first week at uni in England; a hand-wriiten notice on the students’ public notice-board:

“6 munfs ago I cudn’t even spell injuneer, and now I are one.”

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

sibeen said:

What courses would that get you into?

for our university almost all of them apart from Law, Engineering and Vet

Engineering is at the level of law and vet now?

How things change.

Memory from my first week at uni in England; a hand-wriiten notice on the students’ public notice-board:

“6 munfs ago I cudn’t even spell injuneer, and now I are one.”

nah, engineering is 80, law is 90 and vet is 98+

Arts said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

for our university almost all of them apart from Law, Engineering and Vet

Engineering is at the level of law and vet now?

How things change.

Memory from my first week at uni in England; a hand-wriiten notice on the students’ public notice-board:

“6 munfs ago I cudn’t even spell injuneer, and now I are one.”

nah, engineering is 80, law is 90 and vet is 98+

they make engineering 80 to make sure only the most dedicated alcoholics do it

Arts said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

for our university almost all of them apart from Law, Engineering and Vet

Engineering is at the level of law and vet now?

How things change.

Memory from my first week at uni in England; a hand-wriiten notice on the students’ public notice-board:

“6 munfs ago I cudn’t even spell injuneer, and now I are one.”

nah, engineering is 80, law is 90 and vet is 98+

OK, still a little way to go then.

What happened to medicine?

Arts said:

Arts said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Engineering is at the level of law and vet now?

How things change.

Memory from my first week at uni in England; a hand-wriiten notice on the students’ public notice-board:

“6 munfs ago I cudn’t even spell injuneer, and now I are one.”

nah, engineering is 80, law is 90 and vet is 98+

they make engineering 80 to make sure only the most dedicated alcoholics do it

I will let sibeen respond to that one :)

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Engineering is at the level of law and vet now?

How things change.

Memory from my first week at uni in England; a hand-wriiten notice on the students’ public notice-board:

“6 munfs ago I cudn’t even spell injuneer, and now I are one.”

nah, engineering is 80, law is 90 and vet is 98+

OK, still a little way to go then.

What happened to medicine?

we don’t do medicine.. I don;‘t know what the other unit that do do medicine have as their entrance score

Arts said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

nah, engineering is 80, law is 90 and vet is 98+

OK, still a little way to go then.

What happened to medicine?

we don’t do medicine.. I don;‘t know what the other unit that do do medicine have as their entrance score

Probably 101.

The Rev Dodgson said:

ms spock said:

transition said:

consider common communications evolved (or devolved) to accommodate the least native intelligence across a population

imagine the situation that the news you watch is made for, or for the equivalent of a four year old to ‘understand’

the math requirements, the English requirements, psychological mindedness, whatever

it’s inclusive, even people with quite progressed dementia wouldn’t feel too alienated, possibly not at all, no doubt TV is a big comfort in old folks homes

so where does it all go, civilization I mean, the trajectory, if the shared thing turns hostile toward native intelligence

clearly some of native intelligence exists courtesy of and develops from an unshared dimension involving experience

I mean how far would native intelligence go, could it even persist and operate, or be conceived of existing, if the unshared dimension were not acknowledged, if there were a cultural hostility toward it

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level, that means they never progressed beyond concrete thinking and don’t know how Murdoch is or that he owns 70% of our newspapers.

Government websites in Queensland are written for 3rd Grade level in order to get the information out there.

“that means they never progressed beyond concrete thinking”

Does it?

How do you know that?

Is the level of “concrete thinking” even well defined?

And I don’t know how Murdoch is either, or care very much.

To be reading, writing and comprehending at a 5th Grade level means you have an intergenerational disadvantage as your children will also not be able to access whole systems of resources within society. 1 in 5 Australian go to bed without eating dinner or go to school without breakfast. This is one of the social justice issues that needs to be defined so that remediies can be put in place. Adults will be missing many meals for many weeks/months before the children start to miss meals. The age of being an adult of missing meals like the adults is about 13 years old. Breakfast and lunch programmes could go someway to addressing these issues of food insecurity and a lack of access to institutional resources.

There’s a lot of research on the challenges.

And the below is the framework.

https://www.verywellmind.com/piagets-stages-of-cognitive-development-2795457

That folks haven’t progressed beyond concrete thinking is the reason why governmental websites are written at a 3rd Grade level.

And this is something that you learning when studying to be a teacher so you can assess and engage to support students to get access to food and extra educational resources.

Even providing food and reading rich environments in pre-school can assist in these situations.

And pregnant woman not missing meals is also an important one to address as well.

There are a myriad of ways that folks are disadvantaged. The discussions around this can open up spaces and inform educational, policy and remedies.

You may not know who Murdoch is or care much but I imagine you might use your critical literacy skills when consuming media in your life. Some folks don’t have these skills.

ms spock said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

ms spock said:

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level, that means they never progressed beyond concrete thinking and don’t know how Murdoch is or that he owns 70% of our newspapers.

Government websites in Queensland are written for 3rd Grade level in order to get the information out there.

“that means they never progressed beyond concrete thinking”

Does it?

How do you know that?

Is the level of “concrete thinking” even well defined?

And I don’t know how Murdoch is either, or care very much.

To be reading, writing and comprehending at a 5th Grade level means you have an intergenerational disadvantage as your children will also not be able to access whole systems of resources within society. 1 in 5 Australian go to bed without eating dinner or go to school without breakfast. This is one of the social justice issues that needs to be defined so that remediies can be put in place. Adults will be missing many meals for many weeks/months before the children start to miss meals. The age of being an adult of missing meals like the adults is about 13 years old. Breakfast and lunch programmes could go someway to addressing these issues of food insecurity and a lack of access to institutional resources.

There’s a lot of research on the challenges.

And the below is the framework.

https://www.verywellmind.com/piagets-stages-of-cognitive-development-2795457

That folks haven’t progressed beyond concrete thinking is the reason why governmental websites are written at a 3rd Grade level.

And this is something that you learning when studying to be a teacher so you can assess and engage to support students to get access to food and extra educational resources.

Even providing food and reading rich environments in pre-school can assist in these situations.

And pregnant woman not missing meals is also an important one to address as well.

There are a myriad of ways that folks are disadvantaged. The discussions around this can open up spaces and inform educational, policy and remedies.

You may not know who Murdoch is or care much but I imagine you might use your critical literacy skills when consuming media in your life. Some folks don’t have these skills.

1 in 5 Australian children go to bed without eating dinner or go to school without breakfast

Sorry going back to bed – so sick -

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Engineering is at the level of law and vet now?

How things change.

Memory from my first week at uni in England; a hand-wriiten notice on the students’ public notice-board:

“6 munfs ago I cudn’t even spell injuneer, and now I are one.”

nah, engineering is 80, law is 90 and vet is 98+

OK, still a little way to go then.

What happened to medicine?

At most universities medicine is now a post-graduate course. Very few unis offers med at an undergraduate level any more.

sibeen said:

ms spock said:

transition said:

consider common communications evolved (or devolved) to accommodate the least native intelligence across a population

imagine the situation that the news you watch is made for, or for the equivalent of a four year old to ‘understand’

the math requirements, the English requirements, psychological mindedness, whatever

it’s inclusive, even people with quite progressed dementia wouldn’t feel too alienated, possibly not at all, no doubt TV is a big comfort in old folks homes

so where does it all go, civilization I mean, the trajectory, if the shared thing turns hostile toward native intelligence

clearly some of native intelligence exists courtesy of and develops from an unshared dimension involving experience

I mean how far would native intelligence go, could it even persist and operate, or be conceived of existing, if the unshared dimension were not acknowledged, if there were a cultural hostility toward it

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level, that means they never progressed beyond concrete thinking and don’t know how Murdoch is or that he owns 70% of our newspapers.

Government websites in Queensland are written for 3rd Grade level in order to get the information out there.

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level

Is there something to back that stat up?

Research – Teachers and Schooling Making A Difference
Productive pedagogies, assessment and performance
By Debra Hayes, Martin Mills

I studied about it in my teaching degree.

sibeen said:

sibeen said:

ms spock said:

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level, that means they never progressed beyond concrete thinking and don’t know how Murdoch is or that he owns 70% of our newspapers.

Government websites in Queensland are written for 3rd Grade level in order to get the information out there.

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level

Is there something to back that stat up?

From: https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/education/programme-international-assessment-adult-competencies-australia/latest-release

Unfortumately, they don’t equate the literacy levels in the chart with any school reading age, but this does show that Queenslanders are about the Australian average in literacy levels.

Which is most concerning.

And given the over crowded primary school curriculum, more and more students arrive at high school without basic reading and writing schools.

Since the early 1990s universities like UOW have been running “bridging courses” which basically get folks up to speed in their literacy schools

SCIENCE said:

don’t know but we just had a chat with someone from overseas who asked wtf our education was here, the high school content is what they do in primary school

It’s just a waste of time, money, teacher’s and student’s lives and resources.

ms spock said:

sibeen said:

sibeen said:

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level

Is there something to back that stat up?

From: https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/education/programme-international-assessment-adult-competencies-australia/latest-release

Unfortumately, they don’t equate the literacy levels in the chart with any school reading age, but this does show that Queenslanders are about the Australian average in literacy levels.

Which is most concerning.

And given the over crowded primary school curriculum, more and more students arrive at high school without basic reading and writing schools.

Since the early 1990s universities like UOW have been running “bridging courses” which basically get folks up to speed in their literacy schools

a lot of those courses are, however, aimed at and designed specifically for ESL students. If you graduate from an Australian high school and have the appropriate tertiary entrance score there is no need for you to complete any bridging course, nor is there any assessment of if it is required once you have commenced your course.

SCIENCE said:

don’t know but we just had a chat with someone from overseas who asked wtf our education was here, the high school content is what they do in primary school

I’m gonna call shenanigans on that.

diddly-squat said:

SCIENCE said:

don’t know but we just had a chat with someone from overseas who asked wtf our education was here, the high school content is what they do in primary school

I’m gonna call shenanigans on that.

I wouldn’t be surprised that someone in the last form of year 6 was doing something that someone, in another country, was doing in the first term of year 7.

diddly-squat said:

ms spock said:

sibeen said:

From: https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/education/programme-international-assessment-adult-competencies-australia/latest-release

Unfortumately, they don’t equate the literacy levels in the chart with any school reading age, but this does show that Queenslanders are about the Australian average in literacy levels.

Which is most concerning.

And given the over crowded primary school curriculum, more and more students arrive at high school without basic reading and writing schools.

Since the early 1990s universities like UOW have been running “bridging courses” which basically get folks up to speed in their literacy schools

a lot of those courses are, however, aimed at and designed specifically for ESL students. If you graduate from an Australian high school and have the appropriate tertiary entrance score there is no need for you to complete any bridging course, nor is there any assessment of if it is required once you have commenced your course.

UOW had a unit to assist students to catch up on their skills they missed out on in High School. It started in the early 90s to address the plummeting literacy and numeracy levels. Lecturers would refer students all the time. It’s happening a lot of other universities as well.

ms spock said:

sibeen said:

ms spock said:

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level, that means they never progressed beyond concrete thinking and don’t know how Murdoch is or that he owns 70% of our newspapers.

Government websites in Queensland are written for 3rd Grade level in order to get the information out there.

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level

Is there something to back that stat up?

Research – Teachers and Schooling Making A Difference
Productive pedagogies, assessment and performance
By Debra Hayes, Martin Mills

I studied about it in my teaching degree.

The ABS disagrees.

Literacy can be a barrier to access for Australian users. Writing to an Australian year 7 level makes content usable for most people.

https://www.stylemanual.gov.au/accessible-and-inclusive-content/literacy-and-access

sibeen said:

diddly-squat said:

SCIENCE said:

don’t know but we just had a chat with someone from overseas who asked wtf our education was here, the high school content is what they do in primary school

I’m gonna call shenanigans on that.

I wouldn’t be surprised that someone in the last form of year 6 was doing something that someone, in another country, was doing in the first term of year 7.

sure.. that’s entirely plausible.. however I don’t get the feeling that was the intent of the comment.

here in WA the school system is broken, I have no doubt that it’s also broken in other states. There is too much in the curriculum, too little time and too many pressures.. from my experience as a high school teacher, a primary school specialist teacher and a tertiary educator, none of the systems work together, none of them prepare you for the next and none of them prepare you to be int he workforce – unless that workforce is to sit in little rows and have prescribed meal times and be given menial tasks.

Students who come from rigid school systems melt down in first year uni.

and don’t even get me started on fucking NAPLAN

diddly-squat said:

SCIENCE said:

don’t know but we just had a chat with someone from overseas who asked wtf our education was here, the high school content is what they do in primary school

I’m gonna call shenanigans on that.

Teachers and Schooling Making A Difference Productive pedagogies, assessment and performance By Debra Hayes, Martin Mills. It is a good read on some of the issues. A lot of research has been done on it. As a teacher in a Year 8 class you could expect to have students at a Grade 2 level right up the way through to Year 8.

This is such an issue you get taught about it in your teaching degree.

ms spock said:

diddly-squat said:

ms spock said:

Which is most concerning.

And given the over crowded primary school curriculum, more and more students arrive at high school without basic reading and writing schools.

Since the early 1990s universities like UOW have been running “bridging courses” which basically get folks up to speed in their literacy schools

a lot of those courses are, however, aimed at and designed specifically for ESL students. If you graduate from an Australian high school and have the appropriate tertiary entrance score there is no need for you to complete any bridging course, nor is there any assessment of if it is required once you have commenced your course.

UOW had a unit to assist students to catch up on their skills they missed out on in High School. It started in the early 90s to address the plummeting literacy and numeracy levels. Lecturers would refer students all the time. It’s happening a lot of other universities as well.

sure, but again, it’s not as though it’s compulsory unit of course work associated with their degree.

Arts said:

here in WA the school system is broken, I have no doubt that it’s also broken in other states. There is too much in the curriculum, too little time and too many pressures.. from my experience as a high school teacher, a primary school specialist teacher and a tertiary educator, none of the systems work together, none of them prepare you for the next and none of them prepare you to be int he workforce – unless that workforce is to sit in little rows and have prescribed meal times and be given menial tasks.

Students who come from rigid school systems melt down in first year uni.

and don’t even get me started on fucking NAPLAN

I would start marauding around the place with homicidal rage…no one would be safe…anywhere.

diddly-squat said:

ms spock said:

diddly-squat said:

a lot of those courses are, however, aimed at and designed specifically for ESL students. If you graduate from an Australian high school and have the appropriate tertiary entrance score there is no need for you to complete any bridging course, nor is there any assessment of if it is required once you have commenced your course.

UOW had a unit to assist students to catch up on their skills they missed out on in High School. It started in the early 90s to address the plummeting literacy and numeracy levels. Lecturers would refer students all the time. It’s happening a lot of other universities as well.

sure, but again, it’s not as though it’s compulsory unit of course work associated with their degree.

Of course you are right students can drop out of their university degree. It does become so after students struggle with basic literacy skills. And it’s a lot more than you would think. I was shocked about this in the early nineties when I did a bit of tutoring at my university. The literacy and numeracy rates are a real worry.

The thing is we don’t fail students who don’t pass the year – so they just get bumped up each year. So once they get behind it’s hard to catch them up. I would do extra tutoring before school, recess and lunchtime – to try to catch students up.

ms spock said:

Arts said:

here in WA the school system is broken, I have no doubt that it’s also broken in other states. There is too much in the curriculum, too little time and too many pressures.. from my experience as a high school teacher, a primary school specialist teacher and a tertiary educator, none of the systems work together, none of them prepare you for the next and none of them prepare you to be int he workforce – unless that workforce is to sit in little rows and have prescribed meal times and be given menial tasks.

Students who come from rigid school systems melt down in first year uni.

and don’t even get me started on fucking NAPLAN

I would start marauding around the place with homicidal rage…no one would be safe…anywhere.

Um…that’s a bit close to current events.

Arts said:

here in WA the school system is broken, I have no doubt that it’s also broken in other states. There is too much in the curriculum, too little time and too many pressures.. from my experience as a high school teacher, a primary school specialist teacher and a tertiary educator, none of the systems work together, none of them prepare you for the next and none of them prepare you to be int he workforce – unless that workforce is to sit in little rows and have prescribed meal times and be given menial tasks.

Students who come from rigid school systems melt down in first year uni.

and don’t even get me started on fucking NAPLAN

I totally agree on each part of the education not talking to the next bit.. the high school I went to was rather experimental at the time, we had classes and spares, no uniforms, called teachers by their first name,, we could smoke on campus for goodness sake.. while not in classes we had no obligation to be on campus either.. it was a lot like a university and as a result a LOT of kids self destructed (like you suggested in the first year of uni).

That all being said, it’s a misnomer to think that the education system is, or even should be, designed to give an individual the skills they need to to start on day one of their first job and know exactly what to do. Work is just the next step in the system, that’s all.

Arts said:

here in WA the school system is broken, I have no doubt that it’s also broken in other states. There is too much in the curriculum, too little time and too many pressures.. from my experience as a high school teacher, a primary school specialist teacher and a tertiary educator, none of the systems work together, none of them prepare you for the next and none of them prepare you to be int he workforce – unless that workforce is to sit in little rows and have prescribed meal times and be given menial tasks.

Students who come from rigid school systems melt down in first year uni.

and don’t even get me started on fucking NAPLAN

also, I’m not a teacher, but I like the concept of NAPLAN.. it’s like a BMI for the education system.

diddly-squat said:

Arts said:

here in WA the school system is broken, I have no doubt that it’s also broken in other states. There is too much in the curriculum, too little time and too many pressures.. from my experience as a high school teacher, a primary school specialist teacher and a tertiary educator, none of the systems work together, none of them prepare you for the next and none of them prepare you to be int he workforce – unless that workforce is to sit in little rows and have prescribed meal times and be given menial tasks.

Students who come from rigid school systems melt down in first year uni.

and don’t even get me started on fucking NAPLAN

I totally agree on each part of the education not talking to the next bit.. the high school I went to was rather experimental at the time, we had classes and spares, no uniforms, called teachers by their first name,, we could smoke on campus for goodness sake.. while not in classes we had no obligation to be on campus either.. it was a lot like a university and as a result a LOT of kids self destructed (like you suggested in the first year of uni).

That all being said, it’s a misnomer to think that the education system is, or even should be, designed to give an individual the skills they need to to start on day one of their first job and know exactly what to do. Work is just the next step in the system, that’s all.

it’s not about knowing exactly what to do, it’s being able to work autonomously and have skills that are transferrable.. high school teaches you to get through high school, university (to some extent) teaches you how to get through university, but barely any of these skills are transferable to real world learning, on a sliding scale

I really like the idea of high school (especially the upper years) doing this transitional type of human behaviours where students can be autonomous, as in your experience.

with very few exceptions, it’s super clear to me the students in first year uni who have been given autonomy earlier in life, and it’s true that this can also spring from the parents… we should not rely on high schools or the educations system to cater to every adult human need… but they should at least compliment each other..

and the kicker is that the mandatory school systems pretend that they are preparing you for adult life.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

OK, still a little way to go then.

What happened to medicine?

we don’t do medicine.. I don;‘t know what the other unit that do do medicine have as their entrance score

Probably 101.

Wah… equates to Medicine 101, does it?

kii said:

ms spock said:

Arts said:

here in WA the school system is broken, I have no doubt that it’s also broken in other states. There is too much in the curriculum, too little time and too many pressures.. from my experience as a high school teacher, a primary school specialist teacher and a tertiary educator, none of the systems work together, none of them prepare you for the next and none of them prepare you to be int he workforce – unless that workforce is to sit in little rows and have prescribed meal times and be given menial tasks.

Students who come from rigid school systems melt down in first year uni.

and don’t even get me started on fucking NAPLAN

I would start marauding around the place with homicidal rage…no one would be safe…anywhere.

Um…that’s a bit close to current events.

So sorry it was a joke in really poor taste.

diddly-squat said:

Arts said:

here in WA the school system is broken, I have no doubt that it’s also broken in other states. There is too much in the curriculum, too little time and too many pressures.. from my experience as a high school teacher, a primary school specialist teacher and a tertiary educator, none of the systems work together, none of them prepare you for the next and none of them prepare you to be int he workforce – unless that workforce is to sit in little rows and have prescribed meal times and be given menial tasks.

Students who come from rigid school systems melt down in first year uni.

and don’t even get me started on fucking NAPLAN

also, I’m not a teacher, but I like the concept of NAPLAN.. it’s like a BMI for the education system.

It doesn’t work that way. It’s just a billion dollar industry like refugees and folks on centrelink. Teachers end up teaching to the test, and so much gets missed out on. More children were arriving at high school without the ability to read properly. You would always a get a few who couldn’t for whatever reason, but the numbers arriving now – you can’t teach at 12 different levels in one class. I could differentiate for 6-8 levels at most but it could take me 15 hours to prepare materials for each learning level.

diddly-squat said:

Arts said:

here in WA the school system is broken, I have no doubt that it’s also broken in other states. There is too much in the curriculum, too little time and too many pressures.. from my experience as a high school teacher, a primary school specialist teacher and a tertiary educator, none of the systems work together, none of them prepare you for the next and none of them prepare you to be int he workforce – unless that workforce is to sit in little rows and have prescribed meal times and be given menial tasks.

Students who come from rigid school systems melt down in first year uni.

and don’t even get me started on fucking NAPLAN

also, I’m not a teacher, but I like the concept of NAPLAN.. it’s like a BMI for the education system.

the concept of it is fine.. the execution is not.. we have a huge and vastly different country and population. All with very different experiences, we don’t even have a national curriculum.. yet we test every student on a national level… it’s flawed. It could be much better, but it’s not executed well.

also one thing that many people do not know about is that you can opt out of NAPLAN…

the only time it becomes an issue is in testing numeracy and literacy in year nine (a requirement for WACE) there is an alternate more localised test one can do from the WA ed dept. but most people don’t know about the opt out for NAPLAN so schools tend to use that L and N score for WACE instead…

Arts said:

and the kicker is that the mandatory school systems pretend that they are preparing you for adult life.

indeed.. at the most cynical level school is really just a state sponsored system that enables parents to work in the economy.

diddly-squat said:

Arts said:

and the kicker is that the mandatory school systems pretend that they are preparing you for adult life.

indeed.. at the most cynical level school is really just a state sponsored system that enables parents to work in the economy.

Poor kids being an adult is so much fun

diddly-squat said:

Arts said:

and the kicker is that the mandatory school systems pretend that they are preparing you for adult life.

indeed.. at the most cynical level school is really just a state sponsored system that enables parents to work in the economy.

for 40 weeks a year…

I suppose that the other weeks they also inject money into the economy by having to pay for holiday programs and child care.

Arts said:

diddly-squat said:

Arts said:

and the kicker is that the mandatory school systems pretend that they are preparing you for adult life.

indeed.. at the most cynical level school is really just a state sponsored system that enables parents to work in the economy.

for 40 weeks a year…

I suppose that the other weeks they also inject money into the economy by having to pay for holiday programs and child care.

that reminds me, I have to book the 5yo into vacation care…

diddly-squat said:

Arts said:

diddly-squat said:

indeed.. at the most cynical level school is really just a state sponsored system that enables parents to work in the economy.

for 40 weeks a year…

I suppose that the other weeks they also inject money into the economy by having to pay for holiday programs and child care.

that reminds me, I have to book the 5yo into vacation care…

Coal mine or textile factory ?

Arts said:

diddly-squat said:

Arts said:

and the kicker is that the mandatory school systems pretend that they are preparing you for adult life.

indeed.. at the most cynical level school is really just a state sponsored system that enables parents to work in the economy.

for 40 weeks a year…

I suppose that the other weeks they also inject money into the economy by having to pay for holiday programs and child care.

+1

ms spock said:

kii said:

ms spock said:

I would start marauding around the place with homicidal rage…no one would be safe…anywhere.

Um…that’s a bit close to current events.

So sorry it was a joke in really poor taste.

That’s okay, we all do it.

kii said:

ms spock said:

kii said:

Um…that’s a bit close to current events.

So sorry it was a joke in really poor taste.

That’s okay, we all do it.

Thanks that is most generous of you!

ms spock said:

kii said:

ms spock said:

So sorry it was a joke in really poor taste.

That’s okay, we all do it.

Thanks that is most generous of you!

that is me all over, generous.

Woodie said:

“unshared dimension” – Please use in a sentence.

presumably there is something of an unshared dimension to your internal life (including highly limited shares as well), optimizations involving that, your relationship with the external world is unlikely to be completely shared (start with that)

diddly-squat said:

sibeen said:

diddly-squat said:

I’m gonna call shenanigans on that.

I wouldn’t be surprised that someone in the last form of year 6 was doing something that someone, in another country, was doing in the first term of year 7.

sure.. that’s entirely plausible.. however I don’t get the feeling that was the intent of the comment.

Let’s be fair even the biggest claimed difference is that Australian geniuses are 3 years behind CHINA dumb shits but this person we talked to claimed to be from the UK so make of that what you will. Certainly it’s very possible for Y6 to carry over into Y7 but even that would on average represent a year of difference.

As y’al’no’ we already think Australian education is literally retarded but legit’ this conversation came up without even being solicited, so make of that whatever you will.

Woodie said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Arts said:

we don’t do medicine.. I don;‘t know what the other unit that do do medicine have as their entrance score

Probably 101.

Wah… equates to Medicine 101, does it?

given the quality of for example the QLD health guidance these days then yeah let’s see, medicine, genius, what

SCIENCE said:

diddly-squat said:

sibeen said:

I wouldn’t be surprised that someone in the last form of year 6 was doing something that someone, in another country, was doing in the first term of year 7.

sure.. that’s entirely plausible.. however I don’t get the feeling that was the intent of the comment.

Let’s be fair even the biggest claimed difference is that Australian geniuses are 3 years behind CHINA dumb shits but this person we talked to claimed to be from the UK so make of that what you will. Certainly it’s very possible for Y6 to carry over into Y7 but even that would on average represent a year of difference.

As y’al’no’ we already think Australian education is literally retarded but legit’ this conversation came up without even being solicited, so make of that whatever you will.

The 2018 PISA scores had the UK at 1511 and Oz at 1497. A bee’s dick between them.

sibeen said:

SCIENCE said:

diddly-squat said:

sure.. that’s entirely plausible.. however I don’t get the feeling that was the intent of the comment.

Let’s be fair even the biggest claimed difference is that Australian geniuses are 3 years behind CHINA dumb shits but this person we talked to claimed to be from the UK so make of that what you will. Certainly it’s very possible for Y6 to carry over into Y7 but even that would on average represent a year of difference.

As y’al’no’ we already think Australian education is literally retarded but legit’ this conversation came up without even being solicited, so make of that whatever you will.

The 2018 PISA scores had the UK at 1511 and Oz at 1497. A bee’s dick between them.

yeah we’re not saying that the students were more skilled at the same tasks in different year levels but we’d have to see the stdev or whatever measure of spread to know if 14 is a big margin or not

certainly if we’re behind and we keep teaching behind then the reasonable expectation would be to stay behind

SCIENCE said:

sibeen said:

SCIENCE said:

Let’s be fair even the biggest claimed difference is that Australian geniuses are 3 years behind CHINA dumb shits but this person we talked to claimed to be from the UK so make of that what you will. Certainly it’s very possible for Y6 to carry over into Y7 but even that would on average represent a year of difference.

As y’al’no’ we already think Australian education is literally retarded but legit’ this conversation came up without even being solicited, so make of that whatever you will.

The 2018 PISA scores had the UK at 1511 and Oz at 1497. A bee’s dick between them.

yeah we’re not saying that the students were more skilled at the same tasks in different year levels but we’d have to see the stdev or whatever measure of spread to know if 14 is a big margin or not

certainly if we’re behind and we keep teaching behind then the reasonable expectation would be to stay behind

China is probably better at motivating its students, they get tanked for it

SCIENCE said:

diddly-squat said:

sibeen said:

I wouldn’t be surprised that someone in the last form of year 6 was doing something that someone, in another country, was doing in the first term of year 7.

sure.. that’s entirely plausible.. however I don’t get the feeling that was the intent of the comment.

Let’s be fair even the biggest claimed difference is that Australian geniuses are 3 years behind CHINA dumb shits but this person we talked to claimed to be from the UK so make of that what you will. Certainly it’s very possible for Y6 to carry over into Y7 but even that would on average represent a year of difference.

As y’al’no’ we already think Australian education is literally retarded but legit’ this conversation came up without even being solicited, so make of that whatever you will.

well I think you are either (1) being wilfully ignorant, or (2), taking the piss.

SCIENCE said:

diddly-squat said:

sibeen said:

I wouldn’t be surprised that someone in the last form of year 6 was doing something that someone, in another country, was doing in the first term of year 7.

sure.. that’s entirely plausible.. however I don’t get the feeling that was the intent of the comment.

Let’s be fair even the biggest claimed difference is that Australian geniuses are 3 years behind CHINA dumb shits but this person we talked to claimed to be from the UK so make of that what you will. Certainly it’s very possible for Y6 to carry over into Y7 but even that would on average represent a year of difference.

As y’al’no’ we already think Australian education is literally retarded but legit’ this conversation came up without even being solicited, so make of that whatever you will.

Oh good, an area where I am expert (albeit a little out of date).

The Year 11/12 courses in the UK are much more focussed, and either “arts” or “science” based, so standards in the particular subjects studied are significantly higher than in Australia.

But at late primary / early secondary level I don’t believe there is a significant difference.

diddly-squat said:

SCIENCE said:

diddly-squat said:

sure.. that’s entirely plausible.. however I don’t get the feeling that was the intent of the comment.

Let’s be fair even the biggest claimed difference is that Australian geniuses are 3 years behind CHINA dumb shits but this person we talked to claimed to be from the UK so make of that what you will. Certainly it’s very possible for Y6 to carry over into Y7 but even that would on average represent a year of difference.

As y’al’no’ we already think Australian education is literally retarded but legit’ this conversation came up without even being solicited, so make of that whatever you will.

well I think you are either (1) being wilfully ignorant, or (2), taking the piss.

what, for reporting events that happened

fine, go believe what you like

SCIENCE said:

diddly-squat said:

SCIENCE said:

Let’s be fair even the biggest claimed difference is that Australian geniuses are 3 years behind CHINA dumb shits but this person we talked to claimed to be from the UK so make of that what you will. Certainly it’s very possible for Y6 to carry over into Y7 but even that would on average represent a year of difference.

As y’al’no’ we already think Australian education is literally retarded but legit’ this conversation came up without even being solicited, so make of that whatever you will.

well I think you are either (1) being wilfully ignorant, or (2), taking the piss.

what, for reporting events that happened

fine, go believe what you like

should mention the OP isn’t about formal education, though it could be in the way it influences more informal education

sibeen said:

ms spock said:

transition said:

consider common communications evolved (or devolved) to accommodate the least native intelligence across a population

imagine the situation that the news you watch is made for, or for the equivalent of a four year old to ‘understand’

the math requirements, the English requirements, psychological mindedness, whatever

it’s inclusive, even people with quite progressed dementia wouldn’t feel too alienated, possibly not at all, no doubt TV is a big comfort in old folks homes

so where does it all go, civilization I mean, the trajectory, if the shared thing turns hostile toward native intelligence

clearly some of native intelligence exists courtesy of and develops from an unshared dimension involving experience

I mean how far would native intelligence go, could it even persist and operate, or be conceived of existing, if the unshared dimension were not acknowledged, if there were a cultural hostility toward it

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level, that means they never progressed beyond concrete thinking and don’t know how Murdoch is or that he owns 70% of our newspapers.

Government websites in Queensland are written for 3rd Grade level in order to get the information out there.

65% of Queenslanders are reading at a 5th Grade Level

Is there something to back that stat up?

Three dead ex-teachers employrd by QLD edu.

transition said:

SCIENCE said:

diddly-squat said:

well I think you are either (1) being wilfully ignorant, or (2), taking the piss.

what, for reporting events that happened

fine, go believe what you like

should mention the OP isn’t about formal education, though it could be in the way it influences more informal education

we don’t distinguish

SCIENCE said:

transition said:

SCIENCE said:

what, for reporting events that happened

fine, go believe what you like

should mention the OP isn’t about formal education, though it could be in the way it influences more informal education

we don’t distinguish

We are all attending the university of life.

SCIENCE said:

transition said:

SCIENCE said:

what, for reporting events that happened

fine, go believe what you like

should mention the OP isn’t about formal education, though it could be in the way it influences more informal education

we don’t distinguish

are you saying something about people there, generalizing of, or your self, you, the I that is you

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

transition said:

should mention the OP isn’t about formal education, though it could be in the way it influences more informal education

we don’t distinguish

We are all attending the university of life.

I only went to the school of hard knocks. never graduated.

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

we don’t distinguish

We are all attending the university of life.

I only went to the school of hard knocks. never graduated.

same same.

transition said:

consider common communications evolved (or devolved) to accommodate the least native intelligence across a population

imagine the situation that the news you watch is made for, or for the equivalent of a four year old to ‘understand’

the math requirements, the English requirements, psychological mindedness, whatever

it’s inclusive, even people with quite progressed dementia wouldn’t feel too alienated, possibly not at all, no doubt TV is a big comfort in old folks homes

so where does it all go, civilization I mean, the trajectory, if the shared thing turns hostile toward native intelligence

clearly some of native intelligence exists courtesy of and develops from an unshared dimension involving experience

I mean how far would native intelligence go, could it even persist and operate, or be conceived of existing, if the unshared dimension were not acknowledged, if there were a cultural hostility toward it

> equivalent of a four year old to ‘understand’

transition, can you dumb your question down for me a bit? (just kidding).

Some chimpanzee communications are considered the equivalent of a four your old understanding.
So think of human communications reducing to a level that chimpanzees can understand.

Or think of the “Eloi” in H.G.Wells “the time machine”, a low intelligence descendent race of humans.

What would still survive would include:

• model-making, a very powerful tool for communicating thoughts.
• the use of smells and gestures in communication.
• social interactions, and all the psychology that goes along with that.
• war.
• grunt language (a beautiful example is in Tim Allen’s “Home Improvement”) where a single grunt with basic gestures communicates as much as ten words.
• sex.
• appreciation of nature.
• selfishness.
• basic tool making – hammer, wedge, lever, knife, fire, spear, sledge, digger, carrier.
• hunting technology – which plants and animals are safe to eat and how to prepare them.
• singing.
• runners for communication.
• horse riding. Assuming human intelligence remains above that of horse sense.

TV is not as useful for dementia patients as you might think, because they can’t follow the plot. They have literally “lost the plot”.

>TV is not as useful for dementia patients as you might think, because they can’t follow the plot. They have literally “lost the plot”.

entertain for a moment, a thought exercise, the idea it has lost the plot

further consider i’m not talking of native intelligence being especially intelligent, not that way, that’s not so much how I mean it if at all, more I mean native as in whatever example’s native intelligence, that it has some, think of it as everyone has an intimate access to the peculiar I, the peculiarities of I, self, in that alone is the possibility of native intelligence

transition said:

>TV is not as useful for dementia patients as you might think, because they can’t follow the plot. They have literally “lost the plot”.

entertain for a moment, a thought exercise, the idea it has lost the plot

further consider i’m not talking of native intelligence being especially intelligent, not that way, that’s not so much how I mean it if at all, more I mean native as in whatever example’s native intelligence, that it has some, think of it as everyone has an intimate access to the peculiar I, the peculiarities of I, self, in that alone is the possibility of native intelligence

> so where does it all go, civilization I mean, the trajectory, if the shared thing turns hostile toward native intelligence.

Or you can look at times in history when countries have turned hostile towards native intelligence. Times when all intellectuals are persecuted.

I can think of three such times off-hand:

• Oliver Cromwell. A religious anti-intellectual revolution.
• The French Revolution.
• China’s cultural revolution.
  There are others that I know very little about – Spanish Inquisition, Iranian revolution.

In every case – war and death.

Let’s look at the trajectory following China’s cultural revolution. May 16, 1966 – October 6, 1976

“The Cultural Revolution, formally known as the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution, was a sociopolitical movement in the People’s Republic of China launched by Mao Zedong in 1966, and lasting until his death”. Deaths of “Hundreds of thousands to millions of civilians, exact number not known”.

Long before the cultural revolution, there were two main religions in China. Confucius is about business ethics. The Tao is a proletariat religion saying to accept what is, that nothing ever changes. I’m trying to introduce the idea of zero agricultural technological improvement in China for an exceedingly long time.

Survivors worked as farm hands, manual labour only. Education was slashed and corrupted.

It lasted until the death of the instigator, Mao.
After that, the intellectuals slowly came out of hiding and things restarted from scratch.

Eventually, the experience of the cultural revolution and “nothing could be worse than that” emboldened the new generation, allowed some of them to be fearless about taking risks. And some of those risks paid off. China is now an intellectual and technological powerhouse. A new city in a month? No problem.

——

A third take on the question raised in the original post is “How could Earth’s human technology be re-established from scratch? Could it? And what trajectory would it take?”

I was totally stuck on the concept of the accurate “screw thread” for a while in the re-establishment of technology. Once you have a screw thread you can make a copy of it, but making an accurate screw thread without using a screw thread is much more difficult. Anyway, eventually I overcame that mental hurdle.

I actually have doubts about whether personal computers based on transistors on silicon chips could ever be re-established. I think about them as somewhat like Roman mosaics, industrialised entertainment. The anti-intellectual movement following the fall of Rome took a long time to overcome. It would have taken much longer to overcome if there was not wisdom that filtered in from the Orient. When it was overcome, the mosaic industry that was so prevalent throughout ancient Roman times was never re-established. Mosaics became a hobby not an industry. Similarly, in a post apocalypse, the making of personal computers with computer chips may become a hobby and never recover as mass production.

Perhaps space flight could never be re-established following an apocalypse. It’s bloody expensive and can only be financed by a military superpower. Without a military need, it would languish.

transition said:

SCIENCE said:

transition said:

should mention the OP isn’t about formal education, though it could be in the way it influences more informal education

we don’t distinguish

are you saying something about people there, generalizing of, or your self, you, the I that is you

well for once as dv would say we(1,0,0) actually mean we(1,0,0) and don’t speak for anyone else at all, in our(1,0,0) view all the formalities are junk, there’s not much more to say