Interesting swing here i.e., legalizing cannabis oils etc. but banning cigarettes.

Smoking, a thing of the past?

The law, introduced by the government headed by Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, would make New Zealand the first country to ban smoking for generations to come.

The Minister of Health aproves
According to The Guardian, Associate Minister of Health Ayesha Verrall declared that “Thousands of people will live longer, healthier lives and the health system will be $5bn better off from not needing to treat the illnesses caused by smoking.”

Smokefree 2025
The law is part of a larger initiative called Smokefree 2025, which aims to reduce smoking to less than 5% within all population groups.

One out of three Maori
According to Al Jazeera, smoking has dropped to 10% among New Zealand’s European-descended population. However, its prevalence in Indigenous groups is much higher: 28% among the Maori and 18% for Pacific people.

Up to 5,000 deaths every year
“Smoking kills approximately 4,500 to 5,000 people every year in New Zealand – that is around 12 to 13 deaths every day,” declared Population Health and Prevention Group Manager Jane Chambers in a statement from the country’s Ministry of Health.

No longer in stores
The Guardian reports that the initiative also reduces the number of legal tobacco sellers from around 6,000 to under 600. As a result, cigarettes would disappear from supermarkets and convenience stores.

Second only to Bhutan
According to Reuters, these measures would make New Zealand’s tobacco trade one of the most restricted in the world, just behind the small Kingdom of Bhutan where cigarette sales are forbidden.

Smoke-free fish and chips
Although New Zealand’s novel approach seems extreme, it’s hardly the only country trying to reduce smoking among its population. England has set itself to be a smoke-free country by 2030 and Scotland by 2034.

Quitting smoking
Canada and Sweden are other nations trying to lower their number of smokers to at least less than 5% of their population.

Black market fears
New Zealand’s latest restrictions on tobacco have received quite a lot of criticism. Imperial Brands, one of the leading tobacco groups in the local market, raised concerns that prohibition might create a black market.

A substantial increase in smuggling
“Evidence indicates that the amount of tobacco products being smuggled into New Zealand has increased substantially in recent years and organised criminal groups are involved in large-scale smuggling”, acknowledged the government in its proposal, as quoted by The Guardian.

Where there’s smoke…
Another concern is how the tobacco ban will affect small businesses in New Zealand.

Store owners are worried
Reuters highlighted that the Dairy and Business Owners Group, a lobby group for convenience stores in New Zealand, stated in 2021 that while it supported the initiative for a smoke-free country, the government’s plan would destroy many businesses.

Many questions remain
The Guardian highlighted that the number of smokers in New Zealand has dropped to 8% of the population, the lowest since there’s data available. However, the number of adults vaping has increased to 8.3%.

Up in smoke?
Will these measures do more harm than good? It’s hard to say at this stage, but surely many will draw comparisons to another well-intentioned crusade against vice: Prohibition in the United States. Only time will tell if New Zealand will have the same problems as the U.S.
—

Will this work or make smoking more appealing to future generations?

Thank god earlier, and on-going experiments, show conclusively that prohibition works.

I don’t think prohibition will work and nor do I support it in principle.

Criminal enterprises be like…

Kids don’t seem to smoke, at least not according to my sprogs. But the allure of nicotine has not abated, and the use of vaping devices seems to be rather popular amongst the younger generation.

sibeen said:

Kids don’t seem to smoke, at least not according to my sprogs. But the allure of nicotine has not abated, and the use of vaping devices seems to be rather popular amongst the younger generation.

Aye, you wouldn’t necessarily say it’s dying out here but the prevalence among young people is low.
Per the Cancer Council, 10% of 18 to 24 yr olds smoke daily, 13.7% smoke “regularly”.

https://www.tobaccoinaustralia.org.au/chapter-1-prevalence/1-4-prevalence-of-smoking-young-adults

someone said:

prohibition

if only there were other recent examples of limitations being applied to items of abuse in the name of protection of the public, such as another thing that relies on rapid oxidation of fuel within tubular structures to deliver particles into human bodies

It is interesting though because if cigarettes were a medication and the carcinogenic properties were discovered it would have been removed from sales years ago or a food product upon discovery.

monkey skipper said:

It is interesting though because if cigarettes were a medication and the carcinogenic properties were discovered it would have been removed from sales years ago or a food product upon discovery.

right but most doctors really have stopped recommending cigarette use

Smoking is most certainly dangerous and unpleasant pastime. It’s good to see that it’s being phased out though as mentioned it won’t really stop anyone from smoking as young person just has to ask an older one to get them a pack of ciggies for them. But it’s better than nothing.

Here’s a good video that shows the danger of long-term smoking. It’s in the last two minutes but it’s worth watching the entire video.
The most radioactive place on Earth

Anyway all that being said, alcohol is by far a greater overall menace to society. I have no idea how to encourage more people to reduce their drinking though. Perhaps have a maximum percentage of alcohol in all type of drinks.

It is not the prohibition that will work in the long term, it is building up a culture and culture that looks down on smoking. Only once it becomes a social taboo and smokers are forced outside to indulge their addiction will smoking rates drop. I think we are already well on the way here in Australia with that, I have seen the difference once smoking inside pubs was banned.

party_pants said:

It is not the prohibition that will work in the long term, it is building up a culture and culture that looks down on smoking. Only once it becomes a social taboo and smokers are forced outside to indulge their addiction will smoking rates drop. I think we are already well on the way here in Australia with that, I have seen the difference once smoking inside pubs was banned.

Much the same was suggested of America’s ‘experiment’ with prohibiting alcohol in the 1920s.

Of course, it produced a wave of ‘you can’t tell me what to do’ resistance, and, while lip-service was paid to it in public, alcohol consumption actually increased throughout the Prohibition years. Even President Coolidge was widely known to imbibe at home.

As well, organised crime could never have taken root as firmly, or grown as large, as it did without Prohibition.

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

It is not the prohibition that will work in the long term, it is building up a culture and culture that looks down on smoking. Only once it becomes a social taboo and smokers are forced outside to indulge their addiction will smoking rates drop. I think we are already well on the way here in Australia with that, I have seen the difference once smoking inside pubs was banned.

Much the same was suggested of America’s ‘experiment’ with prohibiting alcohol in the 1920s.

Of course, it produced a wave of ‘you can’t tell me what to do’ resistance, and, while lip-service was paid to it in public, alcohol consumption actually increased throughout the Prohibition years. Even President Coolidge was widely known to imbibe at home.

As well, organised crime could never have taken root as firmly, or grown as large, as it did without Prohibition.

I think cigarettes will be harder to obtain that illicit alcohol. Making booze is relatively simple and can be done indoors. Growing tobacco is quite another matter and needs a bit of space to generate any large quantity of it, Growing tobacco of a decent quality similar to what you’d buy in the shops is probably even harder.

party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

It is not the prohibition that will work in the long term, it is building up a culture and culture that looks down on smoking. Only once it becomes a social taboo and smokers are forced outside to indulge their addiction will smoking rates drop. I think we are already well on the way here in Australia with that, I have seen the difference once smoking inside pubs was banned.

Much the same was suggested of America’s ‘experiment’ with prohibiting alcohol in the 1920s.

Of course, it produced a wave of ‘you can’t tell me what to do’ resistance, and, while lip-service was paid to it in public, alcohol consumption actually increased throughout the Prohibition years. Even President Coolidge was widely known to imbibe at home.

As well, organised crime could never have taken root as firmly, or grown as large, as it did without Prohibition.

I think cigarettes will be harder to obtain that illicit alcohol. Making booze is relatively simple and can be done indoors. Growing tobacco is quite another matter and needs a bit of space to generate any large quantity of it, Growing tobacco of a decent quality similar to what you’d buy in the shops is probably even harder.

You may be right.

Producing and selling marijuana is illegal, and it’s thus impossible to obtain.

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

Much the same was suggested of America’s ‘experiment’ with prohibiting alcohol in the 1920s.

Of course, it produced a wave of ‘you can’t tell me what to do’ resistance, and, while lip-service was paid to it in public, alcohol consumption actually increased throughout the Prohibition years. Even President Coolidge was widely known to imbibe at home.

As well, organised crime could never have taken root as firmly, or grown as large, as it did without Prohibition.

I think cigarettes will be harder to obtain that illicit alcohol. Making booze is relatively simple and can be done indoors. Growing tobacco is quite another matter and needs a bit of space to generate any large quantity of it, Growing tobacco of a decent quality similar to what you’d buy in the shops is probably even harder.

You may be right.

Producing and selling marijuana is illegal, and it’s thus impossible to obtain.

Pot is easier to grow since you are only after the buds. One plant can produce quite a lot. With tobacco you are after the leaf and you need rather a lot of it if you are smoking the equivalent of a pack a day. I am sure some people will try it, and some no doubt will mage it. But I don’t think enough could be grown illicitly to match the same volumes as what is available commercially. If you make the commercial production and sale of tobacco unprofitable so firm stop selling it and farmers stop growing it, then I don’t think private ad-hoc growers could ever match the same volumes.

You are never going ot get rid of it completely, but you could get it down to only 1 or 2% of the population being smokers.

Any reasonable steps that aim to stop people breathing toxic fumes into their own lungs are a good idea, and this one is worth a try.

But, it needs to be closely monitored and re-assessed, and if it proves to be ineffective, or even worse proves to be having a contrary effect, then the government needs to be ready to abandon it and not dogmatically try to save face.

How to Grow Tobacco (with Pictures)

https://www.wikihow.com/Grow-Tobacco

party_pants said:

It is not the prohibition that will work in the long term, it is building up a culture and culture that looks down on smoking. Only once it becomes a social taboo and smokers are forced outside to indulge their addiction will smoking rates drop. I think we are already well on the way here in Australia with that, I have seen the difference once smoking inside pubs was banned.

I recall when the steps of the GPO in Sydney looked like an ashtray because no one was allowed to smoke inside the building.

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

It is not the prohibition that will work in the long term, it is building up a culture and culture that looks down on smoking. Only once it becomes a social taboo and smokers are forced outside to indulge their addiction will smoking rates drop. I think we are already well on the way here in Australia with that, I have seen the difference once smoking inside pubs was banned.

Much the same was suggested of America’s ‘experiment’ with prohibiting alcohol in the 1920s.

Of course, it produced a wave of ‘you can’t tell me what to do’ resistance, and, while lip-service was paid to it in public, alcohol consumption actually increased throughout the Prohibition years. Even President Coolidge was widely known to imbibe at home.

As well, organised crime could never have taken root as firmly, or grown as large, as it did without Prohibition.

The war on drugs.

party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

I think cigarettes will be harder to obtain that illicit alcohol. Making booze is relatively simple and can be done indoors. Growing tobacco is quite another matter and needs a bit of space to generate any large quantity of it, Growing tobacco of a decent quality similar to what you’d buy in the shops is probably even harder.

You may be right.

Producing and selling marijuana is illegal, and it’s thus impossible to obtain.

Pot is easier to grow since you are only after the buds. One plant can produce quite a lot. With tobacco you are after the leaf and you need rather a lot of it if you are smoking the equivalent of a pack a day. I am sure some people will try it, and some no doubt will mage it. But I don’t think enough could be grown illicitly to match the same volumes as what is available commercially. If you make the commercial production and sale of tobacco unprofitable so firm stop selling it and farmers stop growing it, then I don’t think private ad-hoc growers could ever match the same volumes.

You are never going ot get rid of it completely, but you could get it down to only 1 or 2% of the population being smokers.

It is illegal to grow tobacco in Australia now. Has been for a while. You can get busted as badly for growing tobacco as you can for growing weed.

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

It is not the prohibition that will work in the long term, it is building up a culture and culture that looks down on smoking. Only once it becomes a social taboo and smokers are forced outside to indulge their addiction will smoking rates drop. I think we are already well on the way here in Australia with that, I have seen the difference once smoking inside pubs was banned.

Much the same was suggested of America’s ‘experiment’ with prohibiting alcohol in the 1920s.

Of course, it produced a wave of ‘you can’t tell me what to do’ resistance, and, while lip-service was paid to it in public, alcohol consumption actually increased throughout the Prohibition years. Even President Coolidge was widely known to imbibe at home.

As well, organised crime could never have taken root as firmly, or grown as large, as it did without Prohibition.

The war on drugs.

Classic episode of Yes, Prime Minister. They are in a Middle Eastern country where alcohol is banned so the PM et al keep being called to a secure office for urgent communications.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

Much the same was suggested of America’s ‘experiment’ with prohibiting alcohol in the 1920s.

Of course, it produced a wave of ‘you can’t tell me what to do’ resistance, and, while lip-service was paid to it in public, alcohol consumption actually increased throughout the Prohibition years. Even President Coolidge was widely known to imbibe at home.

As well, organised crime could never have taken root as firmly, or grown as large, as it did without Prohibition.

The war on drugs.

Classic episode of Yes, Prime Minister. They are in a Middle Eastern country where alcohol is banned so the PM et al keep being called to a secure office for urgent communications.

There’s a mister Walker to see you outside Sir, Mr John Walker.

Peak Warming Man said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

The war on drugs.

Classic episode of Yes, Prime Minister. They are in a Middle Eastern country where alcohol is banned so the PM et al keep being called to a secure office for urgent communications.

There’s a mister Walker to see you outside Sir, Mr John Walker.

I recall that as well.

so in summary, rules work but rules don’t work

SCIENCE said:

so in summary, rules work but rules don’t work

No. In summary: culture and social norms work, but laws don’t.

The latter should never get too far ahead of the former.

SCIENCE said:

so in summary, rules work but rules don’t work

There exist those who will say; “rules are only made to be broken”.

party_pants said:

SCIENCE said:

so in summary, rules work but rules don’t work

No. In summary: culture and social norms work, but laws don’t.

The latter should never get too far ahead of the former.

✅

All this talk of banning tobacco conveniently ignores the huge benefits that smoking provides..

When chronically taken, nicotine may result in:

(1) positive reinforcement, (2) negative reinforcement, (3) reduction of body weight, (4) enhancement of performance, and protection against; (5) Parkinson’s disease (6) Tourette’s disease (7) Alzheimers disease, (8) ulcerative colitis (9) sleep apnea

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1859921/

Ian said:

All this talk of banning tobacco conveniently ignores the huge benefits that smoking provides..

When chronically taken, nicotine may result in:

(1) positive reinforcement, (2) negative reinforcement, (3) reduction of body weight, (4) enhancement of performance, and protection against; (5) Parkinson’s disease (6) Tourette’s disease (7) Alzheimers disease, (8) ulcerative colitis (9) sleep apnea

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1859921/

Well there you go and I had thought that the only other use for it was as a deadly but short lived insecticide.

Defund The Poll Ice ¡

SCIENCE said:

Defund The Poll Ice ¡

No. Just change the rules a bit. The Poll ice have to follow the letter of the law.

party_pants said:

It is not the prohibition that will work in the long term, it is building up a culture and culture that looks down on smoking. Only once it becomes a social taboo and smokers are forced outside to indulge their addiction will smoking rates drop. I think we are already well on the way here in Australia with that, I have seen the difference once smoking inside pubs was banned.

Geeze, when I grew up even Fred & Wilma Flintstone smoked.

but seriously,
I remember when we were allowed to smoke in bed in hospitals…
…then you were required to retire to the lounge…
…then to the smoking area…
…then outside…
The day I found myself lighting up beside bins of medical waste
I realized that perhaps someone was trying to tell me something.

Anyway after a few hit or miss attempts at quitting
I quit when I found a reasonable reason for quitting,

party_pants said:

I think cigarettes will be harder to obtain that illicit alcohol. Making booze is relatively simple and can be done indoors. Growing tobacco is quite another matter and needs a bit of space to generate any large quantity of it, Growing tobacco of a decent quality similar to what you’d buy in the shops is probably even harder.

righte-eo

I could grow marijuana in my back yard
…but it would be animal fodder quality.

Ogmog said:

party_pants said:

I think cigarettes will be harder to obtain that illicit alcohol. Making booze is relatively simple and can be done indoors. Growing tobacco is quite another matter and needs a bit of space to generate any large quantity of it, Growing tobacco of a decent quality similar to what you’d buy in the shops is probably even harder.

righte-eo

I could grow marijuana in my back yard
…but it would be animal fodder quality.

You are an animal are you not?

Ogmog said:

party_pants said:

I think cigarettes will be harder to obtain that illicit alcohol. Making booze is relatively simple and can be done indoors. Growing tobacco is quite another matter and needs a bit of space to generate any large quantity of it, Growing tobacco of a decent quality similar to what you’d buy in the shops is probably even harder.

righte-eo

I could grow marijuana in my back yard
…but it would be animal fodder quality.

Growing tasty backyard weed is easy… if not for busts and rip offs

Imagine it’s the year 2124 and you’re the last smoker left in NZ, all the kids offering you cash for durries everytime you pop to the servo.

IME every second milkbar sells foreign cigarette packs under the counter. This NZ law is a nice idea but I can’t see it working as planned.

dv said:

Imagine it’s the year 2124 and you’re the last smoker left in NZ, all the kids offering you cash for durries everytime you pop to the servo.

One difficulty with that scenario is that it’s unlikely the servos would still be stocking the baccy for the nation’s one remaining smoker.

guess society hasn’t changed in 3 Gs ah well

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

Imagine it’s the year 2124 and you’re the last smoker left in NZ, all the kids offering you cash for durries everytime you pop to the servo.

One difficulty with that scenario is that it’s unlikely the servos would still be stocking the baccy for the nation’s one remaining smoker.

It was a jocular conceit.

“On sale everywhere” in Australia and New Zealand. Might have been a bit embarrassing to ask for, though.

“I’ll have a packet of Prince Charming, please.”

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

Imagine it’s the year 2124 and you’re the last smoker left in NZ, all the kids offering you cash for durries everytime you pop to the servo.

One difficulty with that scenario is that it’s unlikely the servos would still be stocking the baccy for the nation’s one remaining smoker.

It was a jocular conceit.

It’‘s an ageist law.

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

Imagine it’s the year 2124 and you’re the last smoker left in NZ, all the kids offering you cash for durries everytime you pop to the servo.

One difficulty with that scenario is that it’s unlikely the servos would still be stocking the baccy for the nation’s one remaining smoker.

It was a jocular conceit.

By way of, understood.

Bubblecar said:

“On sale everywhere” in Australia and New Zealand. Might have been a bit embarrassing to ask for, though.

“I’ll have a packet of Prince Charming, please.”

Looks like Dracula’s stand in.

dv said:

Imagine it’s the year 2124 and you’re the last smoker left in NZ, all the kids offering you cash for durries everytime you pop to the servo.

Richer than three weather girls.

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

Imagine it’s the year 2124 and you’re the last smoker left in NZ, all the kids offering you cash for durries everytime you pop to the servo.

One difficulty with that scenario is that it’s unlikely the servos would still be stocking the baccy for the nation’s one remaining smoker.

It was a jocular conceit.

Are those allowed?

dv said:

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

Imagine it’s the year 2124 and you’re the last smoker left in NZ, all the kids offering you cash for durries everytime you pop to the servo.

One difficulty with that scenario is that it’s unlikely the servos would still be stocking the baccy for the nation’s one remaining smoker.

It was a jocular conceit.

He could be whipping across the Tasman and smuggling.

Tamb said:

Bubblecar said:

“On sale everywhere” in Australia and New Zealand. Might have been a bit embarrassing to ask for, though.

“I’ll have a packet of Prince Charming, please.”

Looks like Dracula’s stand in.

Apparently based on the future (short lived) Edward VIII, later Duke of Windsor.

Bubblecar said:

Tamb said:

Bubblecar said:

“On sale everywhere” in Australia and New Zealand. Might have been a bit embarrassing to ask for, though.

“I’ll have a packet of Prince Charming, please.”

Looks like Dracula’s stand in.

Apparently based on the future (short lived) Edward VIII, later Duke of Windsor.

Well he was prince charming until he himself was charmed.

roughbarked said:

Bubblecar said:

Tamb said:

Looks like Dracula’s stand in.

Apparently based on the future (short lived) Edward VIII, later Duke of Windsor.

Well he was prince charming until he himself was charmed.

When Royals marry Americans there is always trouble.

Marijuana needs to come with a tar filter.

It’s the tar that does the damage.

Has the New Zealand government added up how much income they will lose from legal tobacco. It’s a lot, more than the gross income that the tobacco companies make from tobacco. Enormously more than the net income the tobacco companies make from tobacco.

Illegal tobacco could be a lot more dangerous to health than legal tobacco, because it doesn’t have to pass government health safety inspections.

mollwollfumble said:

Marijuana needs to come with a tar filter.

It’s the tar that does the damage.

Damage to what?

mollwollfumble said:

Marijuana needs to come with a tar filter.

It’s the tar that does the damage.

Has the New Zealand government added up how much income they will lose from legal tobacco. It’s a lot, more than the gross income that the tobacco companies make from tobacco. Enormously more than the net income the tobacco companies make from tobacco.

Illegal tobacco could be a lot more dangerous to health than legal tobacco, because it doesn’t have to pass government health safety inspections.

Actually it is the tar where they get CBD and CBN from.

roughbarked said:

mollwollfumble said:

Marijuana needs to come with a tar filter.

It’s the tar that does the damage.

Has the New Zealand government added up how much income they will lose from legal tobacco. It’s a lot, more than the gross income that the tobacco companies make from tobacco. Enormously more than the net income the tobacco companies make from tobacco.

Illegal tobacco could be a lot more dangerous to health than legal tobacco, because it doesn’t have to pass government health safety inspections.

Actually it is the tar where they get CBD and CBN from.

the oil surely.

Bogsnorkler said:

roughbarked said:

mollwollfumble said:

Marijuana needs to come with a tar filter.

It’s the tar that does the damage.

Has the New Zealand government added up how much income they will lose from legal tobacco. It’s a lot, more than the gross income that the tobacco companies make from tobacco. Enormously more than the net income the tobacco companies make from tobacco.

Illegal tobacco could be a lot more dangerous to health than legal tobacco, because it doesn’t have to pass government health safety inspections.

Actually it is the tar where they get CBD and CBN from.

the oil surely.

Yes but this if unburnt, is the tar mollwoll speaks of yet 60% is left in the roach..

roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

roughbarked said:

Actually it is the tar where they get CBD and CBN from.

the oil surely.

Yes but this if unburnt, is the tar mollwoll speaks of yet 60% is left in the roach..

Despite what people think, it is actually difficult to burn the active constituents in weed.
Most of it remains unburnt.

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

the oil surely.

Yes but this if unburnt, is the tar mollwoll speaks of yet 60% is left in the roach..

Despite what people think, it is actually difficult to burn the active constituents in weed.
Most of it remains unburnt.

they don’t get them from tar. the hemp is soaked in a solvent to get the products out of the biomass. this is then refined.

Bogsnorkler said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

Yes but this if unburnt, is the tar mollwoll speaks of yet 60% is left in the roach..

Despite what people think, it is actually difficult to burn the active constituents in weed.
Most of it remains unburnt.

they don’t get them from tar. the hemp is soaked in a solvent to get the products out of the biomass. this is then refined.

Yes. However, you can put the roaches in alcohol and get back what didn’t burn.

Witty Rejoinder said:

mollwollfumble said:

Marijuana needs to come with a tar filter.

It’s the tar that does the damage.

Damage to what?

Lungs etc. It is similar to the tar in cigarette smoking.

roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

roughbarked said:

Despite what people think, it is actually difficult to burn the active constituents in weed.
Most of it remains unburnt.

they don’t get them from tar. the hemp is soaked in a solvent to get the products out of the biomass. this is then refined.

Yes. However, you can put the roaches in alcohol and get back what didn’t burn.

But that isn’t where, or how, the get CBN or CBD from.

Bogsnorkler said:

roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

they don’t get them from tar. the hemp is soaked in a solvent to get the products out of the biomass. this is then refined.

Yes. However, you can put the roaches in alcohol and get back what didn’t burn.

But that isn’t where, or how, the get CBN or CBD from.

However there is some still present which is what I was saying.

roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

roughbarked said:

Yes. However, you can put the roaches in alcohol and get back what didn’t burn.

But that isn’t where, or how, the get CBN or CBD from.

However there is some still present which is what I was saying.

“Actually it is the tar where they get CBD and CBN from.”

That is what you said. It is wrong.

Bogsnorkler said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

mollwollfumble said:

Marijuana needs to come with a tar filter.

It’s the tar that does the damage.

Damage to what?

Lungs etc. It is similar to the tar in cigarette smoking.

True. But the most controversial aspect of marijuana use is the potential of mental illness AFAICT

Witty Rejoinder said:

Bogsnorkler said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Damage to what?

Lungs etc. It is similar to the tar in cigarette smoking.

True. But the most controversial aspect of marijuana use is the potential of mental illness AFAICT

I think there are pre-existing mental problems that marijuana exacerbates.

Bogsnorkler said:

roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

But that isn’t where, or how, the get CBN or CBD from.

However there is some still present which is what I was saying.

“Actually it is the tar where they get CBD and CBN from.”

That is what you said. It is wrong.

OK chanhe it to: it is in the tar where much of the CBD and CBN still is.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Bogsnorkler said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Damage to what?

Lungs etc. It is similar to the tar in cigarette smoking.

True. But the most controversial aspect of marijuana use is the potential of mental illness AFAICT

Controversial is about what it is, yes.

roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

roughbarked said:

However there is some still present which is what I was saying.

“Actually it is the tar where they get CBD and CBN from.”

That is what you said. It is wrong.

OK chanhe it to: it is in the tar where much of the CBD and CBN still is.

and i doubt there would be SFA in a roach and not worth trying to extract.

Bogsnorkler said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Bogsnorkler said:

Lungs etc. It is similar to the tar in cigarette smoking.

True. But the most controversial aspect of marijuana use is the potential of mental illness AFAICT

I think there are pre-existing mental problems that marijuana exacerbates.

This is the story. It is true that THC can cause exacerbation of pre existing conditions.

Bogsnorkler said:

roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

“Actually it is the tar where they get CBD and CBN from.”

That is what you said. It is wrong.

OK chanhe it to: it is in the tar where much of the CBD and CBN still is.

and i doubt there would be SFA in a roach and not worth trying to extract.

I suppose that would depend upon how desperate they are and probably that they actually had the alcohol required.

Bogsnorkler said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Bogsnorkler said:

Lungs etc. It is similar to the tar in cigarette smoking.

True. But the most controversial aspect of marijuana use is the potential of mental illness AFAICT

I think there are pre-existing mental problems that marijuana exacerbates.

wasn’t there controversy about this? they don’t actually know if the use of marijuana exacerbates the preexisting condition or creates the condition…

Good idea

Who would have thought sucking down hot, poisonous, radioactive fumes linked from everything from heart disease, cancer, aneurysms, blindness etc turned out to be so bad. Cigarettes only real make sense from a purely financial perspective if the victim dies before retirement age / never has to use the medical system.

wookiemeister said:

Good idea

Who would have thought sucking down hot, poisonous, radioactive fumes linked from everything from heart disease, cancer, aneurysms, blindness etc turned out to be so bad. Cigarettes only real make sense from a purely financial perspective if the victim dies before retirement age / never has to use the medical system.

I believe that people who smoke cigarettes put a pretty big strain on the medical system…

Arts said:

Bogsnorkler said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

True. But the most controversial aspect of marijuana use is the potential of mental illness AFAICT

I think there are pre-existing mental problems that marijuana exacerbates.

wasn’t there controversy about this? they don’t actually know if the use of marijuana exacerbates the preexisting condition or creates the condition…

Most of the people with these conditions were sniffing glue and all sorts of other state altering drugs long before they actually smoked some weed.

wookiemeister said:

Good idea

Who would have thought sucking down hot, poisonous, radioactive fumes linked from everything from heart disease, cancer, aneurysms, blindness etc turned out to be so bad. Cigarettes only real make sense from a purely financial perspective if the victim dies before retirement age / never has to use the medical system.

There are certainly negative effects from habitual cannabis use but at least it chills you the fuck out.

Arts said:

wookiemeister said:

Good idea

Who would have thought sucking down hot, poisonous, radioactive fumes linked from everything from heart disease, cancer, aneurysms, blindness etc turned out to be so bad. Cigarettes only real make sense from a purely financial perspective if the victim dies before retirement age / never has to use the medical system.

I believe that people who smoke cigarettes put a pretty big strain on the medical system…

Very much so.

dv said:

wookiemeister said:

Good idea

Who would have thought sucking down hot, poisonous, radioactive fumes linked from everything from heart disease, cancer, aneurysms, blindness etc turned out to be so bad. Cigarettes only real make sense from a purely financial perspective if the victim dies before retirement age / never has to use the medical system.

There are certainly negative effects from habitual cannabis use but at least it chills you the fuck out.

That’s mainly why many use it.

Arts said:

Bogsnorkler said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

True. But the most controversial aspect of marijuana use is the potential of mental illness AFAICT

I think there are pre-existing mental problems that marijuana exacerbates.

wasn’t there controversy about this? they don’t actually know if the use of marijuana exacerbates the preexisting condition or creates the condition…

dunno. i just smoke the shit, get wasted and don’t care. not very often these days.

;-)

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

Bogsnorkler said:

I think there are pre-existing mental problems that marijuana exacerbates.

wasn’t there controversy about this? they don’t actually know if the use of marijuana exacerbates the preexisting condition or creates the condition…

Most of the people with these conditions were sniffing glue and all sorts of other state altering drugs long before they actually smoked some weed.

I think it goes well back before sniffing became a vogue.

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

Bogsnorkler said:

I think there are pre-existing mental problems that marijuana exacerbates.

wasn’t there controversy about this? they don’t actually know if the use of marijuana exacerbates the preexisting condition or creates the condition…

Most of the people with these conditions were sniffing glue and all sorts of other state altering drugs long before they actually smoked some weed.

Ummm no…

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

Bogsnorkler said:

I think there are pre-existing mental problems that marijuana exacerbates.

wasn’t there controversy about this? they don’t actually know if the use of marijuana exacerbates the preexisting condition or creates the condition…

Most of the people with these conditions were sniffing glue and all sorts of other state altering drugs long before they actually smoked some weed.

Ummm no…

In my experience anyone you are working with who’s smoking pot should be supervised/ have a logic check on their work. A large proportion seem to be on other stuff too, prescription stuff for “depression” ( stop taking fucking dangerous drugs and maybe you would have half of the problems on your life ?). All types smoke it another demographics seem to be argumentative types – quick to anger / control emotions.

Maybe they should just legalise MJ for those over 25 , after that age you should have developed some self control ? Prescribed MJ / related products no problem for legitimate reasons, not some 17 year old that wants to get high.

Other people ive met have had their lives destroyed by MJ but whos to say it might have been other drug that would have ravaged their brain.

With any kind of drug I’d say it would be a continuous effort in discipline to not slide into daily user.

Bogsnorkler said:

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

wasn’t there controversy about this? they don’t actually know if the use of marijuana exacerbates the preexisting condition or creates the condition…

Most of the people with these conditions were sniffing glue and all sorts of other state altering drugs long before they actually smoked some weed.

I think it goes well back before sniffing became a vogue.

Highly likely.

Witty Rejoinder said:

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

wasn’t there controversy about this? they don’t actually know if the use of marijuana exacerbates the preexisting condition or creates the condition…

Most of the people with these conditions were sniffing glue and all sorts of other state altering drugs long before they actually smoked some weed.

Ummm no…

The ones I grew up with were. They’d try anything they could get their hands on.

wookiemeister said:

In my experience anyone you are working with who’s smoking pot should be supervised/ have a logic check on their work.

Sfunny, the US had three potsmoking Presidents in a row, and then they broke the streak with DJT.

Maybe it should be made mandatory?

dv said:

wookiemeister said:

In my experience anyone you are working with who’s smoking pot should be supervised/ have a logic check on their work.

Sfunny, the US had three potsmoking Presidents in a row, and then they broke the streak with DJT.

Maybe it should be made mandatory?

That is funny and are you sure DJT never smoked pot?

roughbarked said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

roughbarked said:

Most of the people with these conditions were sniffing glue and all sorts of other state altering drugs long before they actually smoked some weed.

Ummm no…

The ones I grew up with were. They’d try anything they could get their hands on.

really? going back nearly 50 years never knew anyone who was into sniffing. other drugs sure but they were never desperate about it.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

wookiemeister said:

In my experience anyone you are working with who’s smoking pot should be supervised/ have a logic check on their work.

Sfunny, the US had three potsmoking Presidents in a row, and then they broke the streak with DJT.

Maybe it should be made mandatory?

That is funny and are you sure DJT never smoked pot?

(shrugs) it’s widely said by his friends and enemies that he has never drank alcohol nor done any drugs.

Every once in a while I’d get a hankering for Galloway’s, a black, pungent cough syrup. Once or twice a year between say 7 – 11, I’d sneak into the larder and pour myself a few teaspoons – it really hit the spot. It transpired that it used to have morphine in it. Even as a young child I knew that drinking cough syrup all the time would be a fairly stupid thing to do.

Bogsnorkler said:

roughbarked said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Ummm no…

The ones I grew up with were. They’d try anything they could get their hands on.

really? going back nearly 50 years never knew anyone who was into sniffing. other drugs sure but they were never desperate about it.

So you never saw kids breaking open tablets to take the little pill in the middle out?
You never saw anyone sniff pure and simple?

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Sfunny, the US had three potsmoking Presidents in a row, and then they broke the streak with DJT.

Maybe it should be made mandatory?

That is funny and are you sure DJT never smoked pot?

(shrugs) it’s widely said by his friends and enemies that he has never drank alcohol nor done any drugs.

So it is only coke and hamburgers?

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Sfunny, the US had three potsmoking Presidents in a row, and then they broke the streak with DJT.

Maybe it should be made mandatory?

That is funny and are you sure DJT never smoked pot?

(shrugs) it’s widely said by his friends and enemies that he has never drank alcohol nor done any drugs.

He frequently tells people to do neither.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

That is funny and are you sure DJT never smoked pot?

(shrugs) it’s widely said by his friends and enemies that he has never drank alcohol nor done any drugs.

So it is only coke and hamburgers?

Yeah when I say drugs, I mean illegal drugs. He goes through a stack of Adderal.

wookiemeister said:

Every once in a while I’d get a hankering for Galloway’s, a black, pungent cough syrup. Once or twice a year between say 7 – 11, I’d sneak into the larder and pour myself a few teaspoons – it really hit the spot. It transpired that it used to have morphine in it. Even as a young child I knew that drinking cough syrup all the time would be a fairly stupid thing to do.

I met a gang of youths who would all enter the all the chemists up the main drag separately and buy cough mixture until they had lots of bottles and then they’d sneak off and drink it all.

I watched a bloke skull a full bottle of listerine because it said 47% alcohol on the label.

Came home from work one day to the shared house I was living in to see the whole clothesline with banana peels hanging off it. When I asked WTF? He said he was drying them out to smoke. I was gobsmacked that he had disposed of all the fruit in a way that could only suggest that he’d eaten them. Because he hadn’t buried them or put them in the bin.

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

Every once in a while I’d get a hankering for Galloway’s, a black, pungent cough syrup. Once or twice a year between say 7 – 11, I’d sneak into the larder and pour myself a few teaspoons – it really hit the spot. It transpired that it used to have morphine in it. Even as a young child I knew that drinking cough syrup all the time would be a fairly stupid thing to do.

I met a gang of youths who would all enter the all the chemists up the main drag separately and buy cough mixture until they had lots of bottles and then they’d sneak off and drink it all.

I watched a bloke skull a full bottle of listerine because it said 47% alcohol on the label.

I found a young person working at the back around the chemical section. I noticed a metal container with 100 percent ethanol in it. I picked it up as I had my suspicions “ you see this? Never drink it to get drunk – this grade of Ethanol will most likely kill you even small amounts, by the time anyone realises you are dying it will be too late. Never touch this stuff”.

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

Every once in a while I’d get a hankering for Galloway’s, a black, pungent cough syrup. Once or twice a year between say 7 – 11, I’d sneak into the larder and pour myself a few teaspoons – it really hit the spot. It transpired that it used to have morphine in it. Even as a young child I knew that drinking cough syrup all the time would be a fairly stupid thing to do.

I met a gang of youths who would all enter the all the chemists up the main drag separately and buy cough mixture until they had lots of bottles and then they’d sneak off and drink it all.

I watched a bloke skull a full bottle of listerine because it said 47% alcohol on the label.

I found a young person working at the back around the chemical section. I noticed a metal container with 100 percent ethanol in it. I picked it up as I had my suspicions “ you see this? Never drink it to get drunk – this grade of Ethanol will most likely kill you even small amounts, by the time anyone realises you are dying it will be too late. Never touch this stuff”.

They water it down and drink it anyway.
I knew a bloke who was a gun fruit picker when he was sober. As soon as he got paid, he’d get on the grog. He and his missus would drink metho when they couldn’t afford wine.

George Floyd wiped himself on fentanyl, the warning signs are not being able to breath, by the cops got to him he was already marching towards death, unable to breath properly even whilst standing up. In the whole footage he is seen complaining about being able to breath. The coos didn’t realise he’d already taken a fatal dose. Those cops should have immediately left the country – any country with no legal agreements with America. The yanks can’t stop the drugs from coming in.

wookiemeister said:

George Floyd wiped himself on fentanyl, the warning signs are not being able to breath, by the cops got to him he was already marching towards death, unable to breath properly even whilst standing up. In the whole footage he is seen complaining about being able to breath. The coos didn’t realise he’d already taken a fatal dose. Those cops should have immediately left the country – any country with no legal agreements with America. The yanks can’t stop the drugs from coming in.

Don’t they make the fentanyl in the good old US of A?

SCIENCE said:

monkey skipper said:

It is interesting though because if cigarettes were a medication and the carcinogenic properties were discovered it would have been removed from sales years ago or a food product upon discovery.

right but most doctors really have stopped recommending cigarette use

It was an example of how society has overlooked the carcingenic risk and kept a product on a shelf for sale is what I meant.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Sfunny, the US had three potsmoking Presidents in a row, and then they broke the streak with DJT.

Maybe it should be made mandatory?

That is funny and are you sure DJT never smoked pot?

(shrugs) it’s widely said by his friends and enemies that he has never drank alcohol nor done any drugs.

The orange stain’s older brother Fred Jr (Mary Trump’s father) was an alcoholic, dying at a young age from his abuse of alcohol. Mary wrote that her uncle feared that addiction ran in the family, where it was seen as a moral failing. Addiction can present in many forms – alcohol, drugs, food, toxic behaviour, abuse of power etc.

kii said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

That is funny and are you sure DJT never smoked pot?

(shrugs) it’s widely said by his friends and enemies that he has never drank alcohol nor done any drugs.

The orange stain’s older brother Fred Jr (Mary Trump’s father) was an alcoholic, dying at a young age from his abuse of alcohol. Mary wrote that her uncle feared that addiction ran in the family, where it was seen as a moral failing. Addiction can present in many forms – alcohol, drugs, food, toxic behaviour, abuse of power etc.

so what we’re all saying is that if USSA annexes South Africa, then Musk should become president to continue the trend

kii said:

dv said:

roughbarked said:

That is funny and are you sure DJT never smoked pot?

(shrugs) it’s widely said by his friends and enemies that he has never drank alcohol nor done any drugs.

The orange stain’s older brother Fred Jr (Mary Trump’s father) was an alcoholic, dying at a young age from his abuse of alcohol. Mary wrote that her uncle feared that addiction ran in the family, where it was seen as a moral failing. Addiction can present in many forms – alcohol, drugs, food, toxic behaviour, abuse of power etc.

Stupidity?

captain_spalding said:

kii said:

dv said:

(shrugs) it’s widely said by his friends and enemies that he has never drank alcohol nor done any drugs.

The orange stain’s older brother Fred Jr (Mary Trump’s father) was an alcoholic, dying at a young age from his abuse of alcohol. Mary wrote that her uncle feared that addiction ran in the family, where it was seen as a moral failing. Addiction can present in many forms – alcohol, drugs, food, toxic behaviour, abuse of power etc.

Stupidity?

Deep trauma.

The eldest son was relentlessly picked on my Donald’s Dad.