roughbarked said:
High-ranking member of Russian private military contractor Wagner Group seeks asylum in Norway.
>Mr Medvedev, who has been on the run since mid-2022
Managed to avoid falling out of a window for all that time, well done.
14 tanks. FOURTEEN TANKS!!! FOUR…… TEEN TANKS I tells ya!!! FOURTEEN of the bloody thing!!!!
Sheesh…. that’ll have them Ruskies quakin’ in their boots, hey what but.
Woodie said:
14 tanks. FOURTEEN TANKS!!! FOUR…… TEEN TANKS I tells ya!!! FOURTEEN of the bloody thing!!!!Sheesh…. that’ll have them Ruskies quakin’ in their boots, hey what but.
The Challengers have a bit of punch but I doubt the Ukranians have been trained to use them.
Reckon they really need lots of Leopards.
roughbarked said:
Woodie said:
14 tanks. FOURTEEN TANKS!!! FOUR…… TEEN TANKS I tells ya!!! FOURTEEN of the bloody thing!!!!Sheesh…. that’ll have them Ruskies quakin’ in their boots, hey what but.
The Challengers have a bit of punch but I doubt the Ukranians have been trained to use them.
Reckon they really need lots of Leopards.
Not all of those Ukrainians who have been travelling to the UK have been going to see the Tower of London and watch the Changing of the Guard.
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
Woodie said:
14 tanks. FOURTEEN TANKS!!! FOUR…… TEEN TANKS I tells ya!!! FOURTEEN of the bloody thing!!!!Sheesh…. that’ll have them Ruskies quakin’ in their boots, hey what but.
The Challengers have a bit of punch but I doubt the Ukranians have been trained to use them.
Reckon they really need lots of Leopards.
Not all of those Ukrainians who have been travelling to the UK have been going to see the Tower of London and watch the Changing of the Guard.
I guess you may have something there.
Bubblecar said:
roughbarked said:
High-ranking member of Russian private military contractor Wagner Group seeks asylum in Norway.
>Mr Medvedev, who has been on the run since mid-2022
Managed to avoid falling out of a window for all that time, well done.
For this alone, he deserves being mentioned in dispatches.
roughbarked said:
Bubblecar said:
roughbarked said:
High-ranking member of Russian private military contractor Wagner Group seeks asylum in Norway.
>Mr Medvedev, who has been on the run since mid-2022
Managed to avoid falling out of a window for all that time, well done.
For this alone, he deserves being mentioned in dispatches.
They don’t call him ‘Ground-Floor Andrey’ for nothing, y’know.
roughbarked said:
High-ranking member of Russian private military contractor Wagner Group seeks asylum in Norway.
Really.
I hope has some some intel.
dv said:
roughbarked said:
High-ranking member of Russian private military contractor Wagner Group seeks asylum in Norway.Really.
I hope has some some intel.
Smart enough to avoid falling through a sealed window. May mean he has some credibility.
Its raining men
wookiemeister said:
Its raining men
Tall, blonde dark and lean?
https://public.wmo.int/en/media/news/2023-warm-start-breaking-records-across-europe
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/01/16/europe/europe-putin-warm-winter-intl/index.html
Europe’s warm winter is robbing Putin of a trump card
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-17/australian-troops-bound-for-uk-to-train-forces/101865504
Operation Kudu marks shift in Australian support for Ukraine, from material aide to training
Russian Embassy tweets map of European petrol prices.
And in so doing acknowledges that the Donbas and Crimea are not part of Russia…
dv said:
Russian Embassy tweets map of European petrol prices.
And in so doing acknowledges that the Donbas and Crimea are not part of Russia…
Its good that the Russian Embassy has finally cleared up this matter, because Putin remains in a fog and cant see things properly any more.
dv said:
Russian Embassy tweets map of European petrol prices.
And in so doing acknowledges that the Donbas and Crimea are not part of Russia…
Somebody might be going for a window flight after that.
Bubblecar said:
dv said:
Russian Embassy tweets map of European petrol prices.
And in so doing acknowledges that the Donbas and Crimea are not part of Russia…
Somebody might be going for a window flight after that.
Who will go through the window next?
Window deaths climbing in Russia.
Reasons unknown.
:)
Also I think insodoing should be one word. Like notwithstanding and nevertheless.
dv said:
Also I think insodoing should be one word. Like notwithstanding and nevertheless.
That goeswithoutsaying.
Woodie said:
dv said:
Also I think insodoing should be one word. Like notwithstanding and nevertheless.
That goeswithoutsaying.
One day the English language will evolve to consist of one very long word which will mean anything for that moment.
Tau.Neutrino said:
Woodie said:
dv said:
Also I think insodoing should be one word. Like notwithstanding and nevertheless.
That goeswithoutsaying.
One day the English language will evolve to consist of one very long word which will mean anything for that moment.
German already does that.
dv said:
Russian Embassy tweets map of European petrol prices.
And in so doing acknowledges that the Donbas and Crimea are not part of Russia…
I’ll admit being a tad surprised at the price in Norway.
sibeen said:
dv said:
Russian Embassy tweets map of European petrol prices.
And in so doing acknowledges that the Donbas and Crimea are not part of Russia…
I’ll admit being a tad surprised at the price in Norway.
Probably ramping up excises as they promote the transition to all electric.
Witty Rejoinder said:
sibeen said:
dv said:
Russian Embassy tweets map of European petrol prices.
And in so doing acknowledges that the Donbas and Crimea are not part of Russia…
I’ll admit being a tad surprised at the price in Norway.
Probably ramping up excises as they promote the transition to all electric.
The canny bastards pay bugger all for electricity due to all their hydro.
sibeen said:
dv said:
Russian Embassy tweets map of European petrol prices.
And in so doing acknowledges that the Donbas and Crimea are not part of Russia…
I’ll admit being a tad surprised at the price in Norway.
Coulda got Andrei to bring a cuppla truckloads with him when he snuck across the border this week, hey what but.
sibeen said:
dv said:
Russian Embassy tweets map of European petrol prices.
And in so doing acknowledges that the Donbas and Crimea are not part of Russia…
I’ll admit being a tad surprised at the price in Norway.
They might be surprised by our local natural gas prices.
But hey, you don’t get a trillion dollar sovereign wealth fund if you give it away cheap.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-18/ukraine-helicopter-crash-interior-minister-nursery-brovary/101869868
At least 16 people, including Ukraine’s interior minister and other senior officials, were killed on Wednesday when a helicopter crashed in a suburb outside Kyiv, the national police chief said.
Scots go Ukraine, last year:
Concert for Ukraine, Perth Theatre and Concert Hall
Streamed live on Apr 21, 2022
A who’s who of Scotland’s finest traditional musicians and poets will come together with Ukrainian artists in Concert for Ukraine, a fundraising performance in Perth Concert Hall on Wednesday 20 April.
Artists appearing include Duncan Chisholm, Julie Fowlis, Hamish Napier, Oksana Mavrodii, Gary Innes, Karen Matheson, Donald Shaw, Sheena Wellington, Matthew Zajac, Dolina MacLennan, Phil Cunningham, Jonny Hardie, Aileen Ogilvie, Steve Byrne, Blazin’ Fiddles, Mary Ann Kennedy, Gary Innes, Kathleen Jamie, Hamish MacDonald, Gerda Stevenson, Patsy Reid, Jim & Beth Malcolm, Mad Ferret, Rituala, Margaret Bennett, Ross Ainslie and Tim Edey, Eddi Reader, Dougie MacLean, The Vale of Atholl Pipe Band with further guest artists to be announced.
Concert for Ukraine is a powerful display of solidarity through the coming together of so many well-known artists from Scotland’s vibrant trad music scene woven together with poetry and Ukrainian song to show support and raise funds for the people of Ukraine whose country has been so violently attacked. Net proceeds go directly to the Disaster Emergency Committee (DEC), Ukraine Humanitarian Appeal.
All the performers and their technical support have donated their services and Horsecross Arts has waived the hire fee for Perth Concert Hall.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m99GBqe0-Hg
so it turns out that this war was literally 283769-dimensional chess engineered by the USSA MilitaryIndustrialComplex to destabilise AfroEurAsia and rescue a faltering economy by feeding false confidence to Russia and armaments to Ukraine and fossil fuels to everyone needing more supposed energy security damn what a surprise
SCIENCE said:
so it turns out that this war was literally 283769-dimensional chess engineered by the USSA MilitaryIndustrialComplex to destabilise AfroEurAsia and rescue a faltering economy by feeding false confidence to Russia and armaments to Ukraine and fossil fuels to everyone needing more supposed energy security damn what a surprise
Knew you’d get it eventually.
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:so it turns out that this war was literally 283769-dimensional chess engineered by the USSA MilitaryIndustrialComplex to destabilise AfroEurAsia and rescue a faltering economy by feeding false confidence to Russia and armaments to Ukraine and fossil fuels to everyone needing more supposed energy security damn what a surprise
Knew you’d get it eventually.
why the US can sustain long-hall conventional war, because it has the specialists, specialized industry, can scale up for it, make it pay, profits
be glad of that, then all return to civilian life
other thing related civilian life, is civilian culture, when and as required, can be brutal applying indifference to a foe, brutally accurate I might add
Putin’s patriarch’s Breguet watch, the airbrusher covered it with a sleeve but forgot the reflection on the table.
the lesson of a Ukraine that is not allowed to win this war is very simple: get yourself nuclear
oh wait they said
weapons
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/01/western-military-aid-ukraine-russia/672737/
imagine if some neighbouring former Soviet state did this kind of thing it’d be all “they’re innocent scapegoats this is just a brazen power grab” and “at least communism is accountable” bullshit
SCIENCE said:
imagine if some neighbouring former Soviet state did this kind of thing it’d be all “they’re innocent scapegoats this is just a brazen power grab” and “at least communism is accountable” bullshit
Russian communism seems to breed half arsedness were nothing is quite done properly or at all, as no one actually checks no real incentive to do so.
Putin “Order 50 more MIG fighters jets comrade”
Comrade “Yes sir”
Comrade “10 fighter jets fellow comrade and one very expensive yacht
I would be interesting to see the exact figure for Russian military stolen parts and misappropriated money.
I guess Ukraine can be pleased its put a dent in their capability.
Tau.Neutrino said:
I would be interesting to see the exact figure for Russian military stolen parts and misappropriated money.I guess Ukraine can be pleased its put a dent in their capability.
Putin knows that they skim vast sums out of contracts and allocations.
He doesn’t mind because (1) he gets some of it kicked back to him and (2) quite importantly, it’s a perk for his friends. Keeps them on-side, as it’s easier to stick with the arrangements they have with Vlad than to risk having to negotiate a whole new deal with any potential replacements, who might have their own friends to keep happy.
captain_spalding said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
I would be interesting to see the exact figure for Russian military stolen parts and misappropriated money.I guess Ukraine can be pleased its put a dent in their capability.
Putin knows that they skim vast sums out of contracts and allocations.
He doesn’t mind because (1) he gets some of it kicked back to him and (2) quite importantly, it’s a perk for his friends. Keeps them on-side, as it’s easier to stick with the arrangements they have with Vlad than to risk having to negotiate a whole new deal with any potential replacements, who might have their own friends to keep happy.
Tamb said:
captain_spalding said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
I would be interesting to see the exact figure for Russian military stolen parts and misappropriated money.I guess Ukraine can be pleased its put a dent in their capability.
Putin knows that they skim vast sums out of contracts and allocations.
He doesn’t mind because (1) he gets some of it kicked back to him and (2) quite importantly, it’s a perk for his friends. Keeps them on-side, as it’s easier to stick with the arrangements they have with Vlad than to risk having to negotiate a whole new deal with any potential replacements, who might have their own friends to keep happy.
And he knows who to defenestrate.
Never try to alter the deal.
captain_spalding said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
I would be interesting to see the exact figure for Russian military stolen parts and misappropriated money.I guess Ukraine can be pleased its put a dent in their capability.
Putin knows that they skim vast sums out of contracts and allocations.
He doesn’t mind because (1) he gets some of it kicked back to him and (2) quite importantly, it’s a perk for his friends. Keeps them on-side, as it’s easier to stick with the arrangements they have with Vlad than to risk having to negotiate a whole new deal with any potential replacements, who might have their own friends to keep happy.
The window deterrent.
captain_spalding said:
Tamb said:
captain_spalding said:Putin knows that they skim vast sums out of contracts and allocations.
He doesn’t mind because (1) he gets some of it kicked back to him and (2) quite importantly, it’s a perk for his friends. Keeps them on-side, as it’s easier to stick with the arrangements they have with Vlad than to risk having to negotiate a whole new deal with any potential replacements, who might have their own friends to keep happy.
And he knows who to defenestrate.Never try to alter the deal.
Could lando you in trouble
captain_spalding said:
Tamb said:
captain_spalding said:Putin knows that they skim vast sums out of contracts and allocations.
He doesn’t mind because (1) he gets some of it kicked back to him and (2) quite importantly, it’s a perk for his friends. Keeps them on-side, as it’s easier to stick with the arrangements they have with Vlad than to risk having to negotiate a whole new deal with any potential replacements, who might have their own friends to keep happy.
And he knows who to defenestrate.Never try to alter the deal.
https://youtu.be/3nBH0dzotDI
Serbia takes a turn against Putin
Russia Can’t Replace the Energy Market Putin Broke
A network of gas fields and pipelines developed at a cost of hundreds of billions of dollars has been effectively thrown away.
By Julian Lee
29 January 2023 at 19:00 GMT+11
Russia spent almost 50 years building its energy market in Europe. President Vladimir Putin destroyed it in under 50 weeks. Finding a replacement will be almost impossible.
While Russia has found alternative markets for its crude oil, mostly in India, switching sales of refined products and — perhaps even more so — natural gas will take years and come at huge cost. That’s if it’s even possible to create markets as the world turns away from fossil fuels.
When Moscow’s troops invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24, its European energy customers took fright. A market that soaked up nearly 2.5 million barrels a day of crude, another 1 million barrels of refined products and 155 billion cubic meters a year of natural gas has all but disappeared.
Crude flows from Russia to parts of Europe began to dwindle soon after Putin’s troops crossed the border. By Dec. 5, when a European Union ban on seaborne imports of Russian crude came into effect, they were already down to a trickle, with Bulgaria, which secured a temporary exemption, the only remaining market. The flow of refined products is following the same trajectory ahead of similar sanctions that come into effect on Feb. 5.
Russia’s European market for its natural gas has also been lost. A huge network of gas fields and pipelines, developed at a cost of hundreds of billions of dollars since the first gas crossed the border into Austria in 1968, has been thrown away.
It was estimated in 2017 that $100 billion had already been invested in the development of gas reserves on Russia’s Yamal Peninsula, most of which were tied to Europe through pipelines, including those running beneath the Baltic Sea linking Russia to Germany. That figure was expected to double by 2025. Much of that investment now looks redundant.
While Russia may be able to salvage some sort of an energy relationship with Europe after the war ends, which it inevitably will, it’s unlikely that EU countries will ever allow themselves, or need, to be as dependent on Russian gas as they were just a year ago.
Governments and consumers in Europe are at last getting serious about demand restraint and energy efficiency, while the record prices paid for gas and electricity have spurred investment in renewables and the first serious attempts to change the way retail electricity prices are formulated, taking account of the dwindling share of fossil fuels in power generation.
Russia’s oil companies have succeeded in diverting deliveries of crude shunned by traditional European buyers, thanks in very large part to the thirst of Indian refiners for cheap feedstock. But the diversion has come at a huge cost to Russia and its oil industry. Big discounts, which appear to have been as high as $35 a barrel, equivalent to a 40% price cut, have been required to penetrate the Indian market.
By the end of last year, Russian barrels accounted for about one-quarter of India’s crude imports, displacing cargoes from the subcontinent’s traditional Middle Eastern suppliers — Saudi Arabia, Iraq, the United Arab Emirates and Kuwait.
Diverting crude flows to a thirsty market with a big refining sector capable of processing the relatively high-sulfur crude exported by Russia is one thing; diverting refined products into that market is quite another. I’m sure there will be some countries willing to snap up cheap Russian diesel while exporting their own locally produced fuel back to Europe, but they will require discounts big enough to make the trade profitable — another cost to be borne by the Kremlin and its oil companies.
But oil, whether crude or refined products, has a big advantage over natural gas: It can be easily and cheaply transported by sea.
For most of the past 55 years, Russia has looked westward for its gas buyers. Huge pipelines, thousands of kilometers long, linked gas fields, first in Siberia and more recently on the Yamal Peninsula, to buyers in Europe.
In the past decade, Russia has begun to look east for new markets for its gas and the Power of Siberia gas pipeline now carries the fuel to China. But this gas comes from new deposits, more than 1,300 miles east and 600 miles south of the Yamal fields that used to supply Europe, but now sit underused. Russia’s state-owned gas giant Gazprom PJSC put the official cost of Power of Siberia and its associated gas fields at $55 billion. An independent assessment came up with a figure almost twice as large — an investment, it argues, that will never yield a return.
There will be limits to how much more Russian gas Beijing will buy. While its energy needs are vast, it will be wary of repeating the mistakes that some European countries made by becoming too dependent on Moscow. So Russia will need to look elsewhere to replace its lost European markets.
It would like to supply India, another rapidly growing nation with vast and rising energy needs. But piping natural gas to India will be even more difficult than getting it to China. The route would either have to cross some of the highest mountains in the world, or pass through Afghanistan and Pakistan. Either route would cross several other countries, making construction and operation more costly than the a link between two nations with shared borders.
Putin’s war in Ukraine has cost Russia its European energy market. It won’t be easy to replace. Whatever rapprochement Moscow and Europe may eventually reach, Russians will be counting the cost of the war for generations to come.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-01-29/russia-can-t-replace-the-energy-market-putin-broke?
There’s your ‘legacy’, Vlad.
Putin the great economist.
Tau.Neutrino said:
Putin the great economist.
The great strategist.
‘We’ll roll right over them, the peasants will welcome us with open arms, we’ll be at the Polish border in three days, a week at the outside.’
trouble in paradise
Mr Prigozhin has assumed an ever-more-public role in Russian politics since the start of the war in Ukraine a year ago, with his Wagner Group spearheading Russia’s months-long battle for the town of Bakhmut in Ukraine’s Donetsk region.
In a seven-minute audio message published on Monday by his press service, an apparently angry and emotional Mr Prigozhin said he was required to “apologise and obey” in order to secure ammunition for his troops.
SCIENCE said:
trouble in paradise
Mr Prigozhin has assumed an ever-more-public role in Russian politics since the start of the war in Ukraine a year ago, with his Wagner Group spearheading Russia’s months-long battle for the town of Bakhmut in Ukraine’s Donetsk region.
In a seven-minute audio message published on Monday by his press service, an apparently angry and emotional Mr Prigozhin said he was required to “apologise and obey” in order to secure ammunition for his troops.
I suppose tthat’s better than falling out a double glazed window from a great height.
SCIENCE said:
trouble in paradise
Mr Prigozhin has assumed an ever-more-public role in Russian politics since the start of the war in Ukraine a year ago, with his Wagner Group spearheading Russia’s months-long battle for the town of Bakhmut in Ukraine’s Donetsk region.
In a seven-minute audio message published on Monday by his press service, an apparently angry and emotional Mr Prigozhin said he was required to “apologise and obey” in order to secure ammunition for his troops.
Defenestration approaching?
Michael V said:
SCIENCE said:trouble in paradise
Mr Prigozhin has assumed an ever-more-public role in Russian politics since the start of the war in Ukraine a year ago, with his Wagner Group spearheading Russia’s months-long battle for the town of Bakhmut in Ukraine’s Donetsk region.
In a seven-minute audio message published on Monday by his press service, an apparently angry and emotional Mr Prigozhin said he was required to “apologise and obey” in order to secure ammunition for his troops.
Defenestration approaching?
probably waiting for a window of opportunity…
Over the ring of air raid sirens, US President Biden’s visit to Ukraine sends thunderous message of western unity to Putin
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-21/biden-visit-to-ukraine-sends-message-of-unity/102001392
Western allies take note: if you want to beat Putin in Ukraine, target his wicked little helper in Belarus
Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/07/belarus-ukraine-alexander-lukashenko-vladimir-putin
“worth”
Volodymyr Zelenskyy says Ukrainian forces killed more than 1,100 enemy soldiers near Bakhmut in less than a week
Moscow says its forces have killed more than 220 Ukrainian soldiers over the past 24 hours
but what’s that in SI anyway
I see that the Russians have resorted to the old second war trick, the Taran. Which was a ramming technique.
roughbarked said:
I see that the Russians have resorted to the old second war trick, the Taran. Which was a ramming technique.
roughbarked said:
roughbarked said:
I see that the Russians have resorted to the old second war trick, the Taran. Which was a ramming technique.
A reaper drone costs around $32 million.
Ukraine short of skilled troops and munitions as losses, pessimism grow
By Isabelle Khurshudyan, Paul Sonne and Karen DeYoung
March 13, 2023 at 5:33 p.m. EDT
DNIPROPETROVSK REGION, Ukraine — The quality of Ukraine’s military force, once considered a substantial advantage over Russia, has been degraded by a year of casualties that have taken many of the most experienced fighters off the battlefield, leading some Ukrainian officials to question Kyiv’s readiness to mount a much-anticipated spring offensive.
U.S. and European officials have estimated that as many as 120,000 Ukrainian soldiers have been killed or wounded since the start of Russia’s invasion early last year, compared with about 200,000 on the Russian side, which has a much larger military and roughly triple the population from which to draw conscripts. Ukraine keeps its running casualty numbers secret, even from its staunchest Western supporters.
Statistics aside, an influx of inexperienced draftees, brought in to plug the losses, has changed the profile of the Ukrainian force, which is also suffering from basic shortages of ammunition, including artillery shells and mortar bombs, according to military personnel in the field.
“The most valuable thing in war is combat experience,” said a battalion commander in the 46th Air Assault Brigade, who is being identified only by his call sign, Kupol, in keeping with Ukrainian military protocol. “A soldier who has survived six months of combat and a soldier who came from a firing range are two different soldiers. It’s heaven and earth.”
“And there are only a few soldiers with combat experience,” Kupol added. “Unfortunately, they are all already dead or wounded.”
Such grim assessments have spread a palpable, if mostly unspoken, pessimism from the front lines to the corridors of power in Kyiv, the capital. An inability by Ukraine to execute a much-hyped counteroffensive would fuel new criticism that the United States and its European allies waited too long, until the force had already deteriorated, to deepen training programs and provide armored fighting vehicles, including Bradleys and Leopard battle tanks.
The situation on the battlefield now may not reflect a full picture of Ukraine’s forces, because Kyiv is training troops for the coming counteroffensive separately and deliberately holding them back from current fighting, including the defense of Bakhmut, a U.S. official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to be candid.
Andriy Yermak, head of Ukraine’s presidential office, said the state of the Ukrainian force does not diminish his optimism about a coming counteroffensive. “I don’t think we’ve exhausted our potential,” Yermak said. “I think that in any war, there comes a time when you have to prepare new personnel, which is what is happening right now.”
And the situation for Russia may be worse. During a NATO meeting last month, U.K. Defense Minister Ben Wallace said that 97 percent of Russia’s army was already deployed in Ukraine and that Moscow was suffering “First World War levels of attrition.”
Kupol said he was speaking out in hopes of securing better training for Ukrainian forces from Washington and that he hopes Ukrainian troops being held back for a coming counteroffensive will have more success than the inexperienced soldiers now manning the front under his command.
“There’s always belief in a miracle,” he said. “Either it will be a massacre and corpses or it’s going to be a professional counteroffensive. There are two options. There will be a counteroffensive either way.”
How much increased Western military aid and training will tip the balance in such a spring offensive remains uncertain, given the scars of attrition that are beginning to show.
One senior Ukrainian government official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to be candid, called the number of tanks promised by the West a “symbolic” amount. Others privately voiced pessimism that promised supplies would even reach the battlefield in time.
“If you have more resources, you more actively attack,” the senior official said. “If you have fewer resources, you defend more. We’re going to defend. That’s why if you ask me personally, I don’t believe in a big counteroffensive for us. I’d like to believe in it, but I’m looking at the resources and asking, ‘With what?’ Maybe we’ll have some localized breakthroughs.”
“We don’t have the people or weapons,” the senior official added. “And you know the ratio: When you’re on the offensive, you lose twice or three times as many people. We can’t afford to lose that many people.”
Such analysis is far less optimistic than the public statements by Ukraine’s political and military leadership.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has described 2023 as “the year of victory” for Ukraine. His military intelligence chief, Kyrylo Budanov, touted the possibility of Ukrainians vacationing this summer in Crimea, the peninsula Russia annexed illegally from Ukraine nine years ago.
“Our president inspires us to win,” Col. Gen. Oleksandr Syrsky, Ukraine’s ground forces commander, said in an interview with The Washington Post. “Generally, we all think the same, and we understand that for us it is of course necessary to win by the end of the year. And it is real. It is real if we are given all the help which we have been promised by our partners.”
On the front lines, however, the mood is dark.
Kupol, who consented to having his photograph taken and said he understood he could face personal blowback for giving a frank assessment, described going to battle with newly drafted soldiers who had never thrown a grenade, who readily abandoned their positions under fire and who lacked confidence in handling firearms.
His unit withdrew from Soledar in eastern Ukraine in the winter after being surrounded by Russian forces who later captured the city. Kupol recalled how hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers in units fighting alongside his battalion simply abandoned their positions, even as fighters for Russia’s Wagner mercenary group pressed ahead.
After a year of war, Kupol, a lieutenant colonel, said his battalion is unrecognizable. Of about 500 soldiers, roughly 100 were killed in action and another 400 wounded, leading to complete turnover. Kupol said he was the sole military professional in the battalion, and he described the struggle of leading a unit composed entirely of inexperienced troops.
“I get 100 new soldiers,” Kupol said. “They don’t give me any time to prepare them. They say, ‘Take them into the battle.’ They just drop everything and run. That’s it. Do you understand why? Because the soldier doesn’t shoot. I ask him why, and he says, ‘I’m afraid of the sound of the shot.’ And for some reason, he has never thrown a grenade. … We need NATO instructors in all our training centers, and our instructors need to be sent over there into the trenches. Because they failed in their task.”
He described severe ammunition shortages, including a lack of simple mortar bombs and grenades for U.S.-made MK 19s.
Ukraine has also faced an acute shortage of artillery shells, which Washington and its allies have scrambled to address, with discussions about how to shore up Ukrainian stocks dominating daily meetings on the war at the White House National Security Council. Washington’s efforts have kept Ukraine fighting, but use rates are very high, and scarcity persists.
“You’re on the front line,” Kupol said. “They’re coming toward you, and there’s nothing to shoot with.”
Kupol said Kyiv needed to focus on better preparing new troops in a systematic way. “It’s like all we do is give interviews and tell people that we’ve already won, just a little bit further away, two weeks, and we’ll win,” he said.
Dmytro, a Ukrainian soldier whom The Post is identifying only by first name for security reasons, described many of the same conditions. Some of the less-experienced troops serving at his position with the 36th Marine Brigade in the Donetsk region “are afraid to leave the trenches,” he said. Shelling is so intense at times, he said, that one soldier will have a panic attack, then “others catch it.”
The first time he saw fellow soldiers very shaken, Dmytro said, he tried to talk them through the reality of the risks. The next time, he said, they “just ran from the position.”
“I don’t blame them,” he said. “They were so confused.”
The challenges stem from steep losses. Gen. Valery Zaluzhny, Ukraine’s commander in chief, said in August that nearly 9,000 of his soldiers had died. In December, Mykhailo Podolyak, an adviser to Zelensky, said the number was up to 13,000. But Western officials have given higher estimates and, in any case, the Ukrainian figures excluded the far larger number of wounded who are no longer able to fight.
A German official, speaking on the condition of anonymity to be candid, said that Berlin estimates Ukrainian casualties, including dead and wounded, are as high as 120,000. “They don’t share the information with us because they don’t trust us,” the official said.
Meanwhile, a Russian offensive has been building since early January, according to Syrsky. Budanov, Ukraine’s military intelligence chief, told The Post last month that Russia had more than 325,000 soldiers in Ukraine, and another 150,000 mobilized troops could soon join the fight. Ukrainian soldiers report being outnumbered and having less ammunition.
The stakes for Ukraine in the coming months are particularly high, as Western countries aiding Kyiv look to see whether Ukrainian forces can once again seize the initiative and reclaim more territory from Russian control.
Russia is also facing ammunition, manpower and motivation problems — and has notched only incremental gains in recent months despite the strained state of Ukraine’s force. As bad as Ukraine’s losses are, Russia’s are worse, the U.S. official said.
“The question is whether Ukraine’s relative advantage is sufficient to attain their objectives, and whether those advantages can be sustained,” said Michael Kofman, a military analyst at Virginia-based CNA. “That depends not just on them, but also on the West.”
Bullet casings on the ground at a firing range in eastern Ukraine. (Alice Martins for The Washington Post)
Despite reports of untrained mobilized Russian fighters being thrown into battle, Syrsky said those now arriving are well-prepared. “We have to live and fight in these realities,” he said. “Of course, it’s problematic for us. … It forces us to be more precise in our firing, more detailed in our reconnaissance, more careful in choosing our positions and more detailed in organizing the interaction between the units. There is no other way.”
Russia’s recent gains — notably around Bakhmut — have not significantly tilted the battlefield, and U.S. military officials have said that even if Russia seizes Bakhmut, it would be of little strategic importance. But given the heavy casualties Ukraine is suffering there, officials in Washington have questioned Kyiv’s refusal to retreat. The United States has been advising Ukraine to retreat from the city since at least January, the U.S. official said.
A Ukrainian official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly, said the battle for Bakhmut was depleting Russian forces there — mainly Wagner fighters who have been Moscow’s most effective of late — and that Ukrainian units defending the city were not slated to be deployed in upcoming offensive operations anyway.
Ukraine has lost many of its junior officers who received U.S. training over the past nine years, eroding a corps of leaders who helped distinguish the Ukrainians from their Russian enemies at the start of the invasion, the Ukrainian official said. Now, the official said, those forces must be replaced. “A lot of them are killed,” the official said.
At the start of the invasion, Ukrainians rushed to volunteer for military duty, but now men across the country who did not sign up have begun to fear being handed draft slips on the street. Ukraine’s internal security service recently shut down Telegram accounts that were helping Ukrainians avoid locations where authorities were distributing summonses.
Initially, the United States focused its training on new weapons systems Washington had decided to provide Kyiv, such as M777 artillery pieces and HIMARS rocket launchers. In January, after nearly a year of all-out war, the United States began training Ukrainian forces in combined-arms warfare. Just one battalion, of about 650 people, has completed the training in Germany so far.
Additional Ukrainian battalions will complete the training by the end of March, and the program will adjust as Ukraine’s needs evolve, said Lt. Col. Garron Garn, a Pentagon spokesman.
Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin “remains laser-focused on ensuring that Ukraine is receiving the training it needs for the current fight,” Garn said. The United States is “working around-the-clock” to fulfill Ukraine’s security needs, in addition to investing billions of dollars to produce and procure artillery ammunition, he said.
“The bottom line is that we are getting the Ukrainians what they need, when they need it,” Garn said. “And as President Biden and Secretary Austin have emphasized repeatedly, we will continue to support Ukraine for as long as it takes.”
Even with new equipment and training, U.S. military officials consider Ukraine’s force insufficient to attack all along the giant front, where Russia has erected substantive defenses, so troops are being trained to probe for weak points that allow them to break through with tanks and armored vehicles.
Russia advances in Bakhmut by sending waves of mercenaries to certain death
Britain is also training Ukrainian recruits, including about 10,000 last year, with another 20,000 expected this year. The European Union has said it will train 30,000 Ukrainians in 2023.
Ukraine has been holding back soldiers for a spring offensive and training them as part of newly assembled assault brigades. Kyiv is also organizing battalions around the new fighting vehicles and tanks that Western nations are providing.
Syrsky said he is focused on holding the line against Russian attacks while his deputies prepare soldiers for the next offensive.
“We need to buy time to prepare reserves,” Syrsky said, referring to the Ukrainian soldiers training abroad with Western weapons. “We know that we have to withstand this attack to prepare the reserves that will take part in future actions properly. … Some people defend, others prepare.”
U.S. officials said they expect Ukraine’s offensive to start in late April or early May, and they are acutely aware of the urgency of supplying Kyiv because a drawn-out war could favor Russia, which has more people, money and weapons manufacturing.
Asked at a recent congressional hearing how much more U.S. aid might be required, Pentagon policy chief Colin Kahl told House lawmakers that he did not know. “We don’t know the course or trajectory of the conflict,” Kahl said. “It could end six months from now, it could end two years from now, three years from now.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/03/13/ukraine-casualties-pessimism-ammunition-shortage/?
It Is Good To Kill More For The Economy Must Grow ¡
roughbarked said:
roughbarked said:
roughbarked said:
I see that the Russians have resorted to the old second war trick, the Taran. Which was a ramming technique.A reaper drone costs around $32 million.
‘Boris, you collided with the drone!’
‘Umm…yeah…i meant to that. Yeah.’
Wagner rocketry industry starts to fold, good news for nonproliferation¡
… wait …
SCIENCE said:
Wagner rocketry industry starts to fold, good news for nonproliferation¡
… wait …
SCIENCE said:
Wagner rocketry industry starts to fold, good news for nonproliferation¡
… wait …
How many nukes would someone need to wreck the planet, diminishing returns I imagine, costly to build and maintain so you’d probably be better off restricted in how many you are allowed.
SCIENCE said:
SCIENCE said:
Wagner rocketry industry starts to fold, good news for nonproliferation¡
… wait …
No Dual Use Possibilities Here
Actually, Virgin got the idea from the military.
Underwing launches of military missiles goes back to the 1950s.
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:SCIENCE said:
Wagner rocketry industry starts to fold, good news for nonproliferation¡
… wait …
No Dual Use Possibilities Here
Actually, Virgin got the idea from the military.
Underwing launches of military missiles goes back to the 1950s.
It’s how the Six Million Man got started.
Well, which is it, is CHINA about to send weapons to Russia as some of them claim, or are they suitably and immediately placed to give Russia the hard word¿
SCIENCE said:
Well, which is it, is CHINA about to send weapons to Russia as some of them claim, or are they suitably and immediately placed to give Russia the hard word¿
Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys Grovel And Beg CHINA For Peace
Why not both?
Michael V said:
SCIENCE said:
Well, which is it, is CHINA about to send weapons to Russia as some of them claim, or are they suitably and immediately placed to give Russia the hard word¿
Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys Grovel And Beg CHINA For Peace
Why not both?
“Stop the war and we’ll resupply you¡“¿
Hmm not sure the propaganda we’ve been reading gave us the impression that it would look quite like this.
SCIENCE said:
Hmm not sure the propaganda we’ve been reading gave us the impression that it would look quite like this.
https://www.reuters.com/graphics/UKRAINE-CRISIS/COUNTEROFFENSIVE/mopakddwbpa/index.html
SCIENCE said:
SCIENCE said:
Hmm not sure the propaganda we’ve been reading gave us the impression that it would look quite like this.
https://www.reuters.com/graphics/UKRAINE-CRISIS/COUNTEROFFENSIVE/mopakddwbpa/index.html
The Maginot Line didn’t help France a whole lot, in the end.
The problem with lines of fortification is that, like any chain, they’re only as strong as their weakest link. And once the line is pierced, the whole lot ceases to be of any use.
The Russians have to defend that whole long line of fortifications. The Ukrainians need only to break through in one place.
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:SCIENCE said:
Hmm not sure the propaganda we’ve been reading gave us the impression that it would look quite like this.
https://www.reuters.com/graphics/UKRAINE-CRISIS/COUNTEROFFENSIVE/mopakddwbpa/index.html
The Maginot Line didn’t help France a whole lot, in the end.
The problem with lines of fortification is that, like any chain, they’re only as strong as their weakest link. And once the line is pierced, the whole lot ceases to be of any use.
The Russians have to defend that whole long line of fortifications. The Ukrainians need only to break through in one place.
The head of Russia’s Wagner mercenary group says he was joking when he said his men would stop bombarding Bakhmut to allow Ukrainian forces on the other side of the frontline to show the city to visiting US journalists.
ABC News:
Yevgeny Prigozhin had better stay away from any high windows for a while.
captain_spalding said:
ABC News:
Yevgeny Prigozhin had better stay away from any high windows for a while.
What Is The Relationship Between Mercenaries And Money
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
ABC News:
Yevgeny Prigozhin had better stay away from any high windows for a while.
What Is The Relationship Between Mercenaries And Money
My family history is replete with mercenary activity.
From Ireland, they would hire themselves out to whoever was looking for ‘staff’ at the time. There’s one stoush in the 18th century when we’re pretty sure our folks were working for both sides, some in this uniform, some in that uniform.
This ‘family line of business’ continued up to…let’s just say ‘within living memory’.
The relationship questioned is simple: they have it, we want it, if we do this, we can get it.
captain_spalding said:
SCIENCE said:captain_spalding said:
ABC News:
Yevgeny Prigozhin had better stay away from any high windows for a while.
What Is The Relationship Between Mercenaries And Money
My family history is replete with mercenary activity.
From Ireland, they would hire themselves out to whoever was looking for ‘staff’ at the time. There’s one stoush in the 18th century when we’re pretty sure our folks were working for both sides, some in this uniform, some in that uniform.
This ‘family line of business’ continued up to…let’s just say ‘within living memory’.
The relationship questioned is simple: they have it, we want it, if we do this, we can get it.
is it legal to do such things now as an Aussie citizen?
party_pants said:
is it legal to do such things now as an Aussie citizen?
It’s a very grey area.
Australian federal law prohibits the recruitment of mercenaries within Australia, and, of course, it’s illegal to engage in mercenary activities within Australia.
If you sign up somewhere overseas, then you’re probably in breach of Australian law, but whether (a) the Aus govt. finds out about it and (b) does anything about it are questions without definite answers.
There’s usually quite a few Australians doing ‘national service’ in the Israeli army, and there’s similarly usually a good representation of Australians within the ranks of the French Foreign Legion. Yet, this kind of thing is usually tolerated by the Aus govt.
I suppose it depends on who you sign on with, how much attention you attract, and what of your activities comes to notice.
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
ABC News:
Yevgeny Prigozhin had better stay away from any high windows for a while.
What Is The Relationship Between Mercenaries And Money
In the past, the Wagner group has claimed that the regular Russian troops are not providing the required logistical support. Prigozhin has previously accused Moscow’s regular armed forces of not giving his men the ammunition they need and sometimes accuses top brass of betrayal.
“Now, with regard to the need in general for shells at the front, what we want. Today we are coming to the point where Wagner is ending,” he told Russian war blogger Semyon Pegov.
“Wagner, in a short period of time, will cease to exist. We will become history, nothing to worry about, things like this happen,” he continued.
Pegov posted the clip on his Telegram channel, Reuters reported.
Prigozhin is known for his combative style in his media interviews. In one such interview, he said on Thursday that he was joking when he said his forces would stop shelling Bakhmut to allow Ukrainian forces to show the city to US journalists.
Prigozhin said this week his troops were suffering heavy casualties due to a lack of support from Moscow.
Wagner has in the past dispatched soldiers to fight in Syria and in conflicts across Africa.
In January, the United States formally designated Wagner as a transnational criminal organisation, freezing its assets in the United States for helping Russia’s military in the Ukraine war.
https://www.wionews.com/world/wagner-group-will-soon-cease-to-exist-founder-tells-war-blogger-587166
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
ABC News:
Yevgeny Prigozhin had better stay away from any high windows for a while.
What Is The Relationship Between Mercenaries And Money
They are happy to risk their lives and slaughter innocents for the folding stuff.
captain_spalding said:
party_pants said:is it legal to do such things now as an Aussie citizen?
It’s a very grey area.
Australian federal law prohibits the recruitment of mercenaries within Australia, and, of course, it’s illegal to engage in mercenary activities within Australia.
If you sign up somewhere overseas, then you’re probably in breach of Australian law, but whether (a) the Aus govt. finds out about it and (b) does anything about it are questions without definite answers.
There’s usually quite a few Australians doing ‘national service’ in the Israeli army, and there’s similarly usually a good representation of Australians within the ranks of the French Foreign Legion. Yet, this kind of thing is usually tolerated by the Aus govt.
I suppose it depends on who you sign on with, how much attention you attract, and what of your activities comes to notice.
You are just not allowed to sign up with any terrorists.
roughbarked said:
SCIENCE said:captain_spalding said:
ABC News:
Yevgeny Prigozhin had better stay away from any high windows for a while.
What Is The Relationship Between Mercenaries And Money
They are happy to risk their lives and slaughter innocents for the folding stuff.
Like any other ‘category’ of people, there’s good and bad. Or, perhaps i should say, the better ones and the worse ones.
Wagner are definitely in the latter category. They take on the kind of people that other outfits won’t have.
This is not to say that ‘other outfits’ are angels. It’s not charity work that they’re engaged in.
But, reputation counts, even in that kind of occupation, and if you want to be in the business, there’s sort of a set of rules, a lore, that is acquired. Like; no heroics, you’re not paid for that; don’t take unnecessary risks; don’t be unreliable; don’t hurt anyone you don’t have to, or destroy what you don’t need to; don’t be mean to the civilians, but don’t trust any of them for second. Stuff like that.
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
SCIENCE said:What Is The Relationship Between Mercenaries And Money
They are happy to risk their lives and slaughter innocents for the folding stuff.
Like any other ‘category’ of people, there’s good and bad. Or, perhaps i should say, the better ones and the worse ones.
Wagner are definitely in the latter category. They take on the kind of people that other outfits won’t have.
This is not to say that ‘other outfits’ are angels. It’s not charity work that they’re engaged in.
But, reputation counts, even in that kind of occupation, and if you want to be in the business, there’s sort of a set of rules, a lore, that is acquired. Like; no heroics, you’re not paid for that; don’t take unnecessary risks; don’t be unreliable; don’t hurt anyone you don’t have to, or destroy what you don’t need to; don’t be mean to the civilians, but don’t trust any of them for second. Stuff like that.
I do know the differences and yes Wagner is one of the worst because they’ve been sent to many conflicts and usually paid by Russia.
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
SCIENCE said:What Is The Relationship Between Mercenaries And Money
They are happy to risk their lives and slaughter innocents for the folding stuff.
Like any other ‘category’ of people, there’s good and bad. Or, perhaps i should say, the better ones and the worse ones.
Wagner are definitely in the latter category. They take on the kind of people that other outfits won’t have.
This is not to say that ‘other outfits’ are angels. It’s not charity work that they’re engaged in.
But, reputation counts, even in that kind of occupation, and if you want to be in the business, there’s sort of a set of rules, a lore, that is acquired. Like; no heroics, you’re not paid for that; don’t take unnecessary risks; don’t be unreliable; don’t hurt anyone you don’t have to, or destroy what you don’t need to; don’t be mean to the civilians, but don’t trust any of them for second. Stuff like that.
Wagner and the Ride of the Walkyries
The Ukranians are down but by no means out
If ever the word tragic could be used in the correct context. It does when the data reaches us of what Putin is doing to both Ukraine and Russia.
SCIENCE said:
Is this real?
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
Is this real?
no
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
Is this real?
no
ChrispenEvan said:
dv said:
SCIENCE said:
Is this real?
no
Oh c’m‘on maybe it was composited.
SCIENCE said:
ChrispenEvan said:
dv said:
Is this real?
no
Oh c’m‘on maybe it was composited.
1 missile, 4 shots of it.
https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-05-02-23/h_04d08e4d94853d1e57c249bf027860da
Russia has suffered 100000 casualties since December 2022.
dv said:
https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-05-02-23/h_04d08e4d94853d1e57c249bf027860daRussia has suffered 100000 casualties since December 2022.
Another 150,000 to go then before they retreat. Someone once mentioned a figure of 250,000 before any major change in policy.
party_pants said:
dv said:
Russia has suffered 100000 casualties since December 2022.
Another 150,000 to go then before they retreat. Someone once mentioned a figure of 250,000 before any major change in policy.
Well hey wasn’t so long ago people did wonder how to solve the problem of having a bunch of bored young males sitting around looking for excitement and committing crime.
SCIENCE said:
party_pants said:
dv said:
Russia has suffered 100000 casualties since December 2022.
Another 150,000 to go then before they retreat. Someone once mentioned a figure of 250,000 before any major change in policy.
Well hey wasn’t so long ago people did wonder how to solve the problem of having a bunch of bored young males sitting around looking for excitement and committing crime.
Bread and circuses.
Football.
SCIENCE said:
party_pants said:
dv said:
Russia has suffered 100000 casualties since December 2022.
Another 150,000 to go then before they retreat. Someone once mentioned a figure of 250,000 before any major change in policy.
Well hey wasn’t so long ago people did wonder how to solve the problem of having a bunch of bored young males sitting around looking for excitement and committing crime.
now they aren’t bored or sitting around.
party_pants said:
dv said:
https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-05-02-23/h_04d08e4d94853d1e57c249bf027860daRussia has suffered 100000 casualties since December 2022.
Another 150,000 to go then before they retreat. Someone once mentioned a figure of 250,000 before any major change in policy.
Well that’s just since Dec 2022. Overall their casualties run over 200000. They are down to the serious dregs so I’m not sure what kind of misfits they’ll be stuffing into a uniform by mid-year.
ChrispenEvan said:
Kingy said:
SCIENCE said:
party_pants said:
Another 150,000 to go then before they retreat. Someone once mentioned a figure of 250,000 before any major change in policy.
Well hey wasn’t so long ago people did wonder how to solve the problem of having a bunch of bored young males sitting around looking for excitement and committing crime.
Bread and circuses.
Football.
now they aren’t bored or sitting around.
Look, the lot of yous may be communists and all but there’s just no way we can afford free education when The Economy Must Grow, only arms dealings can make that happen¡
SCIENCE said:
party_pants said:
dv said:
Russia has suffered 100000 casualties since December 2022.
Another 150,000 to go then before they retreat. Someone once mentioned a figure of 250,000 before any major change in policy.
Well hey wasn’t so long ago people did wonder how to solve the problem of having a bunch of bored young males sitting around looking for excitement and committing crime.
Yuri had a tough start to life including an Adidas tracksuit addiction combined with a lack of education about military history. He was a rough diamond and possibly a blanc at heart, but that experience had given him character and an understanding of how to make the best of what he was given. Your criticism although containing a basis of truth ignores circumstances that in many ways lightens the burden and the criminal intent. Anyone can make a situation appear much worse than what it is, but it takes a more open mind to see the good and brighter side of his character that was indicated and shown in his participation on Afghanistan 2: Defective BMP-2.
ChrispenEvan said:
SCIENCE said:party_pants said:
Another 150,000 to go then before they retreat. Someone once mentioned a figure of 250,000 before any major change in policy.
Well hey wasn’t so long ago people did wonder how to solve the problem of having a bunch of bored young males sitting around looking for excitement and committing crime.
now they aren’t bored or sitting around.
About a quarter million of them are lying around.
dv said:
ChrispenEvan said:
SCIENCE said:
Well hey wasn’t so long ago people did wonder how to solve the problem of having a bunch of bored young males sitting around looking for excitement and committing crime.
now they aren’t bored or sitting around.
About a quarter million of them are lying around.
Ah fuck someone should have told CHINA there was a more definitive way to
https://www.brookings.edu/techstream/the-lying-flat-movement-standing-in-the-way-of-chinas-innovation-drive/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tang_ping
send their message more strongly and convincingly.
Are there any Russian tanks killed counters somewhere ?
Tau.Neutrino said:
Are there any Russian tanks killed counters somewhere ?
Shortened to
Russian tank counters. ?
Tau.Neutrino said:
Are there any Russian tanks killed counters somewhere ?
Suchomimus a youtuber has stats on vehicle kills. depending on what vehicle he is talking about he will have a list of destroyed, captured, abandoned etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeEVm0t2iyw
1:14 mark.
Goalpost¡
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-03/russia-says-ukraine-attacked-kremlin-with-drones/102300250
Totally Legit’
So someone recently said gamers on drones was as good as any fighter pilot but
Ukraine Is Now Using Steam Decks to Control Machine Gun Turrets
in the other hand we thought was getting ‘rupt.
Well it mightn’t be new to all but news from the abc it is.
roughbarked said:
New stuff about the dronesWell it mightn’t be new to all but news from the abc it is.
The ABC were probably taking their time to study it, see where they make some typographical errors.
There’s another news report that one of the drones is claimed to have been packed with 17kg of C4 plastic explosive. there’s a photo of a M-112 charge block with it.
C4 is definitely high explosive, and 17 kg of the stuff is more than enough to do the job.
If the attack was genuine, and it really had been carrying the C4, and it had got through, it could have done some real damage.
The best video example i can quickly find is this one, with 15lb/7kg of C4
https://www.military.com/video/ammunition-and-explosives/explosives/15lbs-of-c4-on-a-bus/763995614001
So, double that, and bit more.
But, that explosion over the Kremlin was nothing like you’d see from 17kg of C4. So, why pack one drone with all the big stuff, and arm the other one with a firecracker? Unless you were someone wh wanted the firecracker to ‘get through’, and the big boy to just lay there and get photographed.
As Wookie would contend, things are going just swimmingly in Putin’s special military operation:
…
Wagner boss threatens to pull out of Bakhmut, slams Russian military
By Robyn Dixon, Mary Ilyushina and David L. Stern
Updated May 5, 2023 at 4:11 p.m. EDT|Published May 5, 2023 at 8:32 a.m. EDT
In a sharp escalation of the rivalry between Russia’s disparate military forces in Ukraine, the head of the Wagner mercenary group announced Friday that he would withdraw his fighters from the still-raging battle for Bakhmut over a lack of ammunition.
Yevgeniy Prigozhin released a statement and video on his Telegram channel demanding that Valery Gerasimov, chief of the General Staff of the Russian armed forces, sign an order indicating when the military would replace Wagner forces in Bakhmut, the eastern Ukrainian city that Russia has been trying to seize since last year. He said he would withdraw his forces on May 10.
“I am withdrawing the Wagner PMC units from Bakhmut because in the absence of ammunition, they are doomed to senseless death,” Prigozhin said, wearing camouflage and a helmet, an automatic weapon slung over his shoulder. He stood with dozens of masked Wagner fighters, some wearing full-face skull masks. Prigozhin did not mention where the video was recorded, but it appeared to be somewhere in Russian-occupied eastern Ukraine.
The bitter public recriminations are just the latest in a long-simmering power struggle between Russia’s battlefield leaders and highlight the difficulties the country faces in increasing military production as it braces for an expected Ukrainian counteroffensive in the coming weeks.
Prigozhin said his forces had no choice but to retreat to rear bases to “lick their wounds,” though it remains to be seen if he will indeed order a withdrawal — a move that would be catastrophic for Russia’s long and bloody campaign to take Bakhmut and would likely tarnish the reputation of Prigozhin, a well-connected oligarch who made a fortune through state contracts before founding the mercenary group.
“Whoever has criticisms, you’re welcome to come to Bakhmut and stand with weapons in your hands instead of our killed comrades,” Prigozhin said, while acknowledging the technical need for a military order for Wagner’s withdrawal.
Pro-Kremlin analyst Sergei Markov predicted that Wagner would not pull out May 10 because of the time required for such a handover. If Prigozhin were to follow through, Markov said, he could face arrest and the potential destruction of Wagner — his formidable private army that has helped extend Russian influence across Africa and the Middle East, and whose fighters are now central to the Kremlin’s war effort in Ukraine.
Withdrawing “would be a great mistake, but a lot of mistakes have been made,” Markov said in an interview. “I imagine the Ministry of Defense would be quite happy if the Wagner Group disappeared. Then the resources of the Wagner Group would be taken by someone else.”
Overnight, Prigozhin’s press service posted an extraordinary video on Telegram in which he stood next to the bodies of dozens of Wagner fighters killed in Bakhmut, then launched into a furious, obscenity-laden tirade accusing Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and Gerasimov of supplying his forces with only 30 percent of the ammunition they needed.
Prigozhin’s main accusation was that military officials, jealous of Wagner’s battlefield successes, were intentionally depriving the group of ammunition to prevent it from conquering the city before Russia’s symbolically important Victory Day on May 9, commemorating the Soviet Union’s role in defeating Nazi Germany in World War II.
His statement Friday went further, asserting that Wagner was getting only 10 percent of required ammunition, not 30 percent.
Prigozhin vowed to make sure that Shoigu and Gerasimov would bear responsibility for tens of thousands of men needlessly killed and wounded in what he called “a heavy, merciless, bloody war.”
“Their unprofessionalism is destroying tens of thousands of Russian guys. This is unforgivable,” he said.
Prigozhin’s outburst may also be an effort to shift the blame for Wagner’s failure to seize Bakhmut before Victory Day, which would have given President Vladimir Putin something to celebrate in his speech from Red Square.
Wagner has been battling to seize Bakhmut since last summer. As its losses have piled up, Prigozhin’s open struggle with Russian military leaders has intensified.
Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov, a Putin ally, defended Prigozhin on Friday in comments on Telegram, saying he “deserves respect for the invaluable contribution” of Wagner forces in eastern Ukraine. Kadyrov also said his fighters were “ready to move in and take the city” if Wagner pulls out of Bakhmut.
Markov said Prigozhin has become so popular that it is difficult for anyone to criticize him.
“Of course, the Defense Ministry is quite jealous of Yevgeniy Prigozhin, and of course they don’t like this success story of Wagner,” Markov said. But he discounted the possibility of a plot to starve Wagner of shells.
“I think the Russian army leaders want to keep reserves in the face of coming attacks from the Ukrainian army, so they’re not giving enough shells not only to Wagner but also to other units of the military.”
Prigozhin’s statement also painted a picture of chaos and miscommunication on the battlefield, claiming that Russian troops that were supposed to support Wagner’s flanks in Bakhmut were ineffective and deployed in lower numbers than officially claimed.
“Instead of tens of thousands, there are tens and seldom hundreds of fighters,” he said.
According to Western intelligence estimates, Wagner deployed about 50,000 fighters in Ukraine, many of them prisoners who were offered pardons in exchange for taking up arms.
U.S. National Security Council spokesman John Kirby said Monday that nearly half of the estimated 20,000 Russian forces killed since December were Wagner fighters struggling to take Bakhmut.
Prigozhin has shared videos of dead Wagner fighters before on Telegram, but his open rage and his snarling vitriol toward Russian military officials was highly unusual.
“These are the guys of the PMC Wagner. They were killed today. Their blood is still fresh,” he said. “Film them all,” he told an assistant, who panned across the bodies laid out in rows.
“Shoigu, Gerasimov,” he shouted, “these are somebody’s fathers and somebody’s sons! And those who don’t give us ammunition will be in hell eating their guts!”
“They came here as volunteers and are dying for you so that you can have a wealthy life and sit in your redwood offices. Keep that in mind,” he continued, glaring furiously into the camera.
Though he has no official military title, Prigozhin is Russia’s most visible battlefield leader, frequently posting videos of himself clad in military gear, meeting his fighters or making announcements on the battlefield as explosions echo in the background.
His willingness to take personal and political risks to support Wagner has endeared him to his men, who see themselves as the most competent elite unit in Ukraine. It also contrasts vividly with Shoigu, Gerasimov and Putin, who are rarely seen near the front lines.
Prigozhin’s statement bluntly pointed at Russian military failures and claimed credit for saving Russia’s military operation.
“A series of failures of the Russian Ministry of Defense in various parts of the front” last year led to an October decision for Wagner to conduct “operation Bakhmut meat grinder” to divert Ukrainian forces, Prigozhin said.
“After these events, the Wagner PMC units fell out of favor with envious military bureaucrats. An artificial ammunition starvation began,” he claimed.
One prominent nationalist military blogger with the handle Zapiski Veterana posted on Telegram that if Wagner did withdraw, it would be “due to stupidity, sabotage and possibly open betrayal on the part of Russian officials.”
The Kremlin has previously tried to play down the conflict between Prigozhin and defense officials, even as the Wagner leader’s criticisms have become more strident.
In January, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said reports of an internal conflict were “the product of information manipulation” that was “organized by our enemies in the information sphere.”
But he appeared to take a subtle dig at Prigozhin, adding, “But sometimes our friends behave in such a way that we don’t need enemies.”
On Friday, Peskov said the Kremlin was aware of Prigozhin’s statement but declined to comment.
Ukrainian officials, meanwhile, said Friday that they were investigating how their military lost control of a Turkish-made Bayraktar drone over central Kyiv on Thursday — setting off air-raid sirens, activating air defenses and drawing small-arms fire in the capital.
Videos showed the drone plummeting in a fiery ball after it was struck by Ukraine’s air defense forces. Initially, it appeared to be a Russian attack — what would have been the second that day, after Russian forces sent more than 20 self-destructing drones to attack Ukraine in the early morning.
Ukraine’s air force revealed hours after the episode that the aircraft was in fact one of its own that had “lost control.” But why the drone went astray is still unclear, Ukrainian air force spokesman Yuriy Ihnat said.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/05/05/yevgeniy-prigozhin-wagner-video-pullout/?
“Prigozhin vowed to make sure that Shoigu and Gerasimov would bear responsibility for tens of thousands of men needlessly killed and wounded in what he called “a heavy, merciless, bloody war.”’
He doesn’t feel that taking people out of prisons and nuthouses, giving them no training, arming them, and shoving them into the front lines places any of the responsibility on him?
captain_spalding said:
“Prigozhin vowed to make sure that Shoigu and Gerasimov would bear responsibility for tens of thousands of men needlessly killed and wounded in what he called “a heavy, merciless, bloody war.”’He doesn’t feel that taking people out of prisons and nuthouses, giving them no training, arming them, and shoving them into the front lines places any of the responsibility on him?
“failure is an orphan”
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:
“Prigozhin vowed to make sure that Shoigu and Gerasimov would bear responsibility for tens of thousands of men needlessly killed and wounded in what he called “a heavy, merciless, bloody war.”’He doesn’t feel that taking people out of prisons and nuthouses, giving them no training, arming them, and shoving them into the front lines places any of the responsibility on him?
“failure is an orphan”
Also, he left ‘pointless’ out of his description of the war.
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:
“Prigozhin vowed to make sure that Shoigu and Gerasimov would bear responsibility for tens of thousands of men needlessly killed and wounded in what he called “a heavy, merciless, bloody war.”’He doesn’t feel that taking people out of prisons and nuthouses, giving them no training, arming them, and shoving them into the front lines places any of the responsibility on him?
“failure is an orphan”
Damn I wish I’d said that.
Russia’s economy can withstand a long war, but not a more intense one
Its defences against Western sanctions can only stretch so far
RUSSIA. Moscow. 16.02.2023
A week after Russia invaded Ukraine last year, Antony Blinken, America’s secretary of state, crowed, “The value of the ruble has plummeted; the Russian stockmarket closed as fear of capital flight rose; interest rates more than doubled; Russia’s credit rating has been cut to junk status.” American authorities clearly hoped that the “massive, unprecedented consequences” they and their allies had imposed on Russia, including “severe and lasting economic costs”, would help impede its war machine. Yet over the following year, despite the repeated tightening of Western sanctions, Russia’s economy recovered its poise. The imf expects it to grow by 0.7% this year—on a par with France, and even as the British and German economies shrink. The hope that the state of Russia’s economy will provide any sort of constraint on the war has faded.
Such despair, however, is as misguided as Mr Blinken’s initial euphoria. By the admission of none other than Vladimir Putin, Russia’s president, “The illegitimate restrictions imposed on the Russian economy in the medium term may indeed have a negative impact on it.” The question is not so much whether Russia can endure an even longer war of attrition (it can), but whether it can support the sort of intensification of the conflict Russia will probably need to transform its prospects on the battlefield. That looks almost impossible.
Russia’s bureaucracy has achieved three feats over the past 14 months. It has found ways to withstand the fusillade of sanctions that Mr Blinken heralded. It has supplied enough men and materiel to propel Russia’s invasion. And all this has been done without a sharp decline in living standards, which might prompt popular unrest. But any attempt to escalate the conflict would inevitably undo these successes.
Russia is having to cope with the broadest array of sanctions ever imposed on a big country, including on individuals associated with the war, on financial transactions involving Russian entities, on exports of certain goods to Russia and on imports of most goods from Russia. Yet this economic assault has yielded disappointing results, in part because there were always big holes in the sanctions regime and in part because Russia has found ways around some of the restrictions that did initially hem it in.
Some of the showiest measures have targeted oligarchs and other cronies of Mr Putin’s regime. World-Check, a data firm, reckons that 2,215 individuals with close ties to the government can no longer travel to some or all Western countries, or gain access to their possessions there, or both. Some wealthy Russians have complained about their lost social standing. A few have left Russia and renounced their citizenship.
Despite the reports of impounded superyachts, however, most oligarchs are still putting caviar on the table. Foreign governments have frozen about $100bn-worth of private Russian assets—only about a quarter of the $400bn that Russian households have abroad. The biggest imposition on many rich Russians relates to their holidays. The French Riviera is off limits; Dubai and Antalya are the main substitutes. Sanctions, perversely, may pave the way for the creation of a new generation of oligarchs. With Western firms leaving the country en masse, there are hundreds of billions of dollars’ worth of assets up for grabs. If the intention behind the measures was to cause discomfort among Mr Putin’s inner circle, there is little sign of it.
Financial sanctions, too, have had a limited effect. After Russia invaded Ukraine, ten Russian lenders were kicked out of swift, which more than 11,000 banks around the world use for cross-border payments. Close to two-thirds of Russia’s banking system can no longer process transactions in euros or dollars.
But Western countries have not cut off Russian banks entirely, as they need to pay for the Russian oil and gas they continue to import. Gazprombank, which processes these payments, remains a member of swift. What is more, new financial pipes are being built to replace Western ones. Average daily transactions using CIPS, China’s alternative to swift, have increased by 50% since the invasion began. This past December 16% of Russia’s exports were paid for in yuan, up from almost none before the war. The narrow gap between the price at which Russian banks sell their customers yuan and the price at which they buy yuan suggests a liquid market. Some international transactions are also settled, with difficulty, in Indian rupees and Emirati dirhams.
Restrictions on exports of certain goods to Russia have also disappointed. America and its allies have banned sales to Russia of thousands of high-tech items, while many Western firms that used to operate in Russia have voluntarily pulled out. Of about 3,000 global firms with a Russian presence tracked by the kse Institute at the Kyiv School of Economics, roughly half have curtailed operations there in some way. Last year the stock of foreign direct investment in Russia fell by a quarter.
Yet Russia continues to import almost as much as it did before the invasion. New trading partners have sprung up to replace the West. China now sells twice as much to Russia as it did in 2019. “Parallel” imports—unauthorised sales from the West to Russia via a third country of everything from fizzy drinks to computer chips—have soared. In 2022 imports from the eu to Armenia mysteriously doubled, even as Armenian exports to Russia tripled. Serbia’s exports of phones to Russia rose from $8,518 in 2021 to $37m in 2022. Shipments of washing machines from Kazakhstan to Russia rose from zero in 2021 to nearly 100,000 units last year.
These arrangements have drawbacks. Russia’s economic hubs are nearer to Brussels than to Beijing. Higher transport costs mean higher prices. People also have less choice than before (one Muscovite complains about the difficulty of finding mortadella). According to a recent survey by Romir, a Russian market-research firm, two-thirds of Russians reckon the quality of the products they buy is deteriorating.
What is more, not all goods can be obtained in sufficient quantities through backchannels. Many Russian-made medications, which depend on imported raw materials, are in short supply. The car industry, meanwhile, is struggling with a shortage of imported semiconductors. Production was down 70% in January-February, compared with the same period a year before.
Yet even if Russia cannot make as many cars any more, it can still import them. After Lada, a Soviet stalwart, the most popular brand in Russia is now Haval, a mid-range Chinese marque. Its monthly sales have increased 331% over the past year.
Russia also seems to be getting hold of the parts it needs to keep its civilian planes airborne, somehow. Hackers have been stealing updates of aircraft software that Russian firms can no longer buy. Crashes, although frequent by Western standards, have not increased.
The impact of sanctions on Russia’s exports has been bigger–but Western countries always shied away from making them too severe for fear of pushing up energy prices for their own consumers to unbearable levels. The eu’s imports of Russian gas have fallen dramatically. Russia has limited capacity to divert the exports to China, since the pipeline linking the two countries is small. Shipping more by sea requires new liquefaction plants which take time to build and need sophisticated tech. Rystad Energy, a consultancy, forecasts that Russia’s gas sales will dwindle to 136bn cubic metres (bcm) in 2023 from 241bcm in 2021.
Oil, however, is more fungible. In December the eu, which in 2021 bought more than 40% of Russia’s crude exports, imposed an import ban. It also forbade its shipping firms, insurers and financiers from facilitating the sale of Russian crude to buyers in other countries unless the price per barrel was below $60. In February a similar package of sanctions came into force on Russia’s refined oil, a smaller but profitable export, much of which also went to Europe before the war.
But Asian buyers have been happy to absorb the oil that Europe is spurning. In March nearly 90% of Russia’s total crude exports went to China and India, estimates Reid I’Anson of Kpler, a data firm, up from a quarter before the war. That month Russia shipped 3.7m barrels a day (b/d) on average, more than it did in 2021. March was also a strong month for sales of refined products such as diesel. A new ecosystem of shadow traders and shippers, largely based in Hong Kong and Dubai, has emerged to help ferry the embargoed barrels to their new destinations, often with the help of Russian lenders and insurers. These new buyers, plus high commodity prices brought about in part by the war, helped push Russia’s current-account surplus to a record $227bn—10% of gdp.
But it is unlikely to see another bumper year. The price of a barrel of Brent, an oil benchmark, has fallen below $85 from an average of $100 in 2022 (see chart 1). Urals, Russia’s main grade, now sells at a steep discount at Russian ports—below $50 on average in January and February, according to the ministry of finance, compared with $76 on average in 2022. Russia would need a price of well over $100 a barrel to balance its budget, analysts estimate. The International Energy Agency, a watchdog, reckons Russia’s oil revenues were 43% lower in March than a year earlier. Economists expect the country’s current-account surplus to fall to 3-4% of gdp this year, in line with the average of the 2010s.
Lower hydrocarbon sales mean lower government revenues. In 2022 the Russian government ran a deficit of about 3trn roubles ($37bn), or 2% of gdp. This year it is planning something similar, but actual spending and taxation data so far this year make that look optimistic. A deficit in the range of at least 10trn roubles, as much as 5% of gdp, looks likelier—high by Russian standards.
All the same, the Russian state has plenty of options to fund itself. Russia’s sovereign-wealth fund still has about $150bn (about 10% of gdp), even after being drained of about $30bn last year. The government could also issue more debt. Last year’s bumper exports have left big Russian energy firms with lots of cash they must stash somewhere. Those firms, which are largely state-owned anyway, could also be hit with a windfall tax, as they were last year. And Russian financial institutions hold sufficient assets to cover 10trn-rouble deficits for 25 years–a huge resource the government might seek to tap in some way. Richard Connolly, an expert on the Russian economy at rusi, a think-tank, says, “The government can always fund itself by taking money from big companies.”
Money, in other words, will not be a severe constraint on the war effort. Demands on the budget for this purpose are in any case modest. Our best guess, based on comparing actual spending figures with what was budgeted before the war, is that Russia’s assault on Ukraine is currently costing it about 5trn roubles a year, or 3% of gdp–less than America spent on the Korean war.
But replacing damaged weapons and spent munitions is not simply a question of money. Russia has churned through military equipment on a vast scale. Estimates of the number of armoured vehicles destroyed during the war, for example, range between 8,000 and 16,000, according to a recent report by the Centre for Strategic and International Studies (csis), a think-tank. Russia has also lost lots of aircraft, drones and artillery systems.
One solution is to fall back on existing stocks, although many of these are old and in poor repair. Another is to redirect weapons intended for export to the front line. Siemon Wezeman of sipri, a Swedish think-tank, reckons Russia’s arms exports plummeted from $50bn in 2021 to $11bn or less last year. He points out that unusual t-90 tanks—perhaps demonstration models, or units originally destined for Algeria—have been spotted on the battlefield in Ukraine.
Russia is also trying to make more weapons. Dmitri Medvedev, deputy chairman of Russia’s security council, recently said the country would produce 1,500 modern tanks in 2023. Officials have also said they want drones to be manufactured en masse in Russia. Some factories are working around the clock. The government is lending lavishly to arms manufacturers, or ordering banks to do so. In January and February production of “finished metal goods” was 20% higher than the year before, according to official statistics.
The problem is that, to manufacture advanced weapons, it needs access to Western-made, high-end “dual-use” components, from engines to microchips, that are hard to obtain because of Western sanctions. Desperately needed parts can always be diverted to their most urgent use. Thus in February the government temporarily stopped accepting applications for biometric passports to save microchips. High-end washing machines are also being imported in large numbers to be stripped of their chips, presumably for use in guided missiles and other military kit. Ukraine’s military intelligence recently reported that every month Russia manages to make around 30 Kh-101s and 20 Kalibrs, its two main types of guided missile, presumably thanks to such ruses.
But the volumes of advanced weaponry produced is nowhere near what Russia needs to replace its depleting stocks. Ukrainian and Western military officials believe that Russia has used most of its stocks of its most accurate guided missiles. Serial numbers found in the wreckage of spent missiles suggest it is now using new ones, made during the war. Insiders say the army is asking for ten times more tanks than Russia’s factories can produce. A lack of software and technical equipment also seems to be preventing Russia’s production of drones from taking off.
What Russia lacks in quality, however, it may partly compensate for in quantity—by gussying up Soviet-era weapons. It is modernising perhaps 90 old tanks a month by equipping them with new electronics and communication systems. It is refurbishing old missiles that are less accurate but difficult to intercept and repurposing nuclear delivery systems to launch them. It is cannibalising civilian planes to repair fighter jets.
Russia is also getting military supplies from allies. Some artillery shells appear to be arriving from China, via Belarus. Russia is also buying (ostensibly civilian) drones from its eastern neighbour, as well as artillery shells from North Korea. It reportedly also traded 60 Su-35 aircraft with Iran in exchange for several thousand kamikaze drones. In short, the quality of Russian weapons is declining, but it has found ways to avoid running out.
More rhetoric than rotors
Finding enough people to keep the war effort going is another challenge. Many have been killed in action; many more have emigrated. In the year to December 2022 the number of employed Russians under the age of 35 fell by 1.3m, according to FinExpertiza, an auditor. Shortages of workers are common. In December the central bank said that half of firms surveyed were struggling to find enough staff. There are 2.5 vacancies for every unemployed person, making the Russian labour market twice as tight as America’s. Wages are growing fast. Specialists, such as IT engineers and lawyers, are especially scarce. At a recent meeting of Russia’s entrepreneurs union, the labour shortage was the main topic of conversation.
The labour shortage makes life difficult for military recruiters, too. The army is now sending conscription and mobilisation notices by email, in addition to physical copies, to make it harder for people to pretend they have not seen them. Draftees are not allowed to leave the country. With enough coercion, though, Russia should have no trouble filling its ranks. The country is not about to run out of young men: before the war there were about 17m of them. But more people on the frontline means fewer people in offices and factories. And the more widespread conscription becomes in big cities like Moscow and Saint Petersburg, the greater the chance of popular unrest.
The government’s third economic achievement has been to maintain living standards. Last year it spent an extra 3% of gdp to stimulate the economy. Aside from higher spending on the military, support is coming in the form of economic aid to civilian companies: direct handouts to firms, subsidised loans, joint investments and so on. Spending on the budget category that subsumes many of these items, “national economy”, rose by 20% in 2022, to 4.3trn roubles. Between January and mid-March it increased by another 45% compared with the same period last year. Banks are being asked to give indebted firms breathing room. In 2022 business failures fell to a seven-year low.
Last year “social” spending also rose, from 6trn to 7trn roubles (4.5% of gdp). However, says Vladimir Milov, a former deputy minister of energy, the federal government accounts for only part of overall social spending. The pension fund—a nominally independent agency recently renamed the Social Fund—is also doling out cash to retirees, mothers, the disabled and more, as are regional governments. Allowances towards constituencies important to Mr Putin, such as families with more than one child, the poor and the elderly, are growing, notes Maria Snegovaya of csis. Outside Moscow, payments to the families of dead conscripts can be enough to buy a flat.
All this may explain why the war has not affected Russian living standards all that much. Consumer prices did rise by 12% last year, in large part because of a depreciation of the rouble in the spring. Average pay at medium-sized and large companies, which include many state-owned entities, rose marginally last year even after accounting for inflation. The value of people’s savings has fallen only slightly, central-bank statistics suggest. Inflation fell back to 3.5% in March.
Overall, the Russian economy has proved resilient. Real gdp fell by only 2-3% last year—far less than the 10-15% decline that many economists had predicted. A “current activity indicator” compiled by Goldman Sachs, a bank, which correlated closely with official gdp numbers before the war, shows that Russia emerged from recession about a year ago. Most forecasters believe the economy will grow this year (see chart 2).
All this suggests that Mr Putin should be able to maintain the war effort for some time to come. Expanding it, however, is another matter. Some on the right are calling for Mr Putin to spend more than a few percentage points of gdp on the invasion. After all, Russia has embraced total war before—including in 1942 and 1943, when it spent an astonishing 60% of its gdp on the military, according to “Accounting for War”, a book by Mark Harrison published in 1996.
But it is hard to see how Mr Putin could do that while maintaining economic stability and preserving living standards. The first problem would be raising money fast. Not all the sovereign-wealth fund’s assets are liquid. Printing money would spur inflation, causing the rouble to lose value and eroding the living standards the government has worked so hard to preserve. Loading up banks with huge amounts of public debt overnight might have a similar effect, stirring doubts about how soundly the economy was being managed. Tax rises or a big shift in public expenditure towards defence would also eat into personal incomes. And any of these measures would undermine the air of calm, control and stability that Mr Putin is at pains to maintain. “Of course, national defence is the top priority,” he said recently, “but in resolving strategic tasks in this area, we should not repeat the mistakes of the past and should not destroy our own economy.”
It’s unclear that spending vastly more money would achieve the desired results anyway. Russia’s economy has become more centralised, but it is not the planned, command-and-control apparatus of the Soviet times. Converting a budgetary bazooka into weapons of a more conventional sort would thus, at best, take time. The effort would exacerbate the bottlenecks that are already constricting Russia’s military output, in machinery subject to sanctions, for example, and in skilled workers. Much would depend on the continued assistance of China, the Gulf states and other countries through which Russian capital and imports flow–and they might be nervous about abetting a big Russian escalation.
Throwing the kitchen sink at Ukraine therefore looks out of the question. “Considering Russia’s existing capabilities and limitations, it will likely opt for a slower-paced attritional campaign in Ukraine,” asserts the csis report. Mr Putin has succeeded in insulating the Russian economy from the worst effects of war and sanctions–but in a way that makes the war hard to win.
https://www.economist.com/briefing/2023/04/23/russias-economy-can-withstand-a-long-war-but-not-a-more-intense-one?
This was recently uploaded by Bubblecar I think and I did think, I wonder should this be streamed to Russia to remind them of how this ‘special operation’ will go down in future history.
Lukashenko offers nuclear weapons for everyone joining Belarus-Russia union
Alexander Lukashenko, Vladimir Putin’s staunchest ally, invites other countries to “join in the Union State of Belarus and Russia” a week after the Kremlin deploys nuclear weapons in his country.
dv said:
All these flags R US.
Russia’s most powerful mercenary, Yevgeny Prigozhin, has said that he asked prosecutors to investigate whether senior Russian defence officials committed any “crime” before or during the war in Ukraine.
He quipped last week that his nickname should be “Putin’s butcher” rather than “Putin’s chef”.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-01/prigozhin-calls-investigation-into-crimes-of-russian-officials/102418986 Link
roughbarked said:
Russia’s most powerful mercenary, Yevgeny Prigozhin, has said that he asked prosecutors to investigate whether senior Russian defence officials committed any “crime” before or during the war in Ukraine.He quipped last week that his nickname should be “Putin’s butcher” rather than “Putin’s chef”.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-01/prigozhin-calls-investigation-into-crimes-of-russian-officials/102418986 Link
Ain’t he a riot?
Seriously though, I mean: The world otherwise has already put out an arrest warrant for Putin. Yet still this shit persists.
36 SydHarbs in the breached Nova Kakhovka dam has spread across more than 600 hectares so far.
roughbarked said:
36 SydHarbs in the breached Nova Kakhovka dam has spread across more than 600 hectares so far.
It’s funny, you read ’600 hectares’, and your mind reacts in Australian terms like oh, 600 hectares is that all, but in Eurpopean/Ukrainian terms, that’s quite an area.
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
36 SydHarbs in the breached Nova Kakhovka dam has spread across more than 600 hectares so far.
It’s funny, you read ’600 hectares’, and your mind reacts in Australian terms like oh, 600 hectares is that all, but in Eurpopean/Ukrainian terms, that’s quite an area.
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
36 SydHarbs in the breached Nova Kakhovka dam has spread across more than 600 hectares so far.
It’s funny, you read ’600 hectares’, and your mind reacts in Australian terms like oh, 600 hectares is that all, but in Eurpopean/Ukrainian terms, that’s quite an area.
If I have my sums right, 36 Sydharbs distributed over 600 hectares gives an average depth of 3 km, which seems a little unlikely.
The Rev Dodgson said:
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
36 SydHarbs in the breached Nova Kakhovka dam has spread across more than 600 hectares so far.
It’s funny, you read ’600 hectares’, and your mind reacts in Australian terms like oh, 600 hectares is that all, but in Eurpopean/Ukrainian terms, that’s quite an area.
If I have my sums right, 36 Sydharbs distributed over 600 hectares gives an average depth of 3 km, which seems a little unlikely.
But 36 sydharbs is a figure used too casually I’d expect. Can’t believe everything I hear on the news.
roughbarked said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
captain_spalding said:It’s funny, you read ’600 hectares’, and your mind reacts in Australian terms like oh, 600 hectares is that all, but in Eurpopean/Ukrainian terms, that’s quite an area.
If I have my sums right, 36 Sydharbs distributed over 600 hectares gives an average depth of 3 km, which seems a little unlikely.
But 36 sydharbs is a figure used too casually I’d expect. Can’t believe everything I hear on the news.
Tamb said:
roughbarked said:
The Rev Dodgson said:If I have my sums right, 36 Sydharbs distributed over 600 hectares gives an average depth of 3 km, which seems a little unlikely.
But 36 sydharbs is a figure used too casually I’d expect. Can’t believe everything I hear on the news.
I’m pretty sure Sydney harbour exists.
But do people actually carry around the volume figure in their heads?
Tamb said:
roughbarked said:
The Rev Dodgson said:If I have my sums right, 36 Sydharbs distributed over 600 hectares gives an average depth of 3 km, which seems a little unlikely.
But 36 sydharbs is a figure used too casually I’d expect. Can’t believe everything I hear on the news.
I’m pretty sure Sydney harbour exists.
Well, i can’t see it from here, so, ontologically, i doubt that you can prove that it does exist.
captain_spalding said:
Tamb said:
roughbarked said:But 36 sydharbs is a figure used too casually I’d expect. Can’t believe everything I hear on the news.
I’m pretty sure Sydney harbour exists.Well, i can’t see it from here, so, ontologically, i doubt that you can prove that it does exist.
Tamb said:
captain_spalding said:
Tamb said:I’m pretty sure Sydney harbour exists.
Well, i can’t see it from here, so, ontologically, i doubt that you can prove that it does exist.
Does the volume vary with the tide?
I daresay.
captain_spalding said:
Tamb said:
roughbarked said:But 36 sydharbs is a figure used too casually I’d expect. Can’t believe everything I hear on the news.
I’m pretty sure Sydney harbour exists.Well, i can’t see it from here, so, ontologically, i doubt that you can prove that it does exist.
It did yesterday afternoon.
The Rev Dodgson said:
captain_spalding said:
Tamb said:I’m pretty sure Sydney harbour exists.
Well, i can’t see it from here, so, ontologically, i doubt that you can prove that it does exist.
It did yesterday afternoon.
So you say. Next, you’ll be telling me that it’s volume varies according to gravitational forces.
Those sanctions must have hit harder than I thought.
Hackers claim to have crippled Russia’s banking system
Pro-Ukrainian hacktivists allegedly took down Infotel, a Russian internet service provider (ISP) crucial for operating a platform that Russian banks use to facilitate the financial system.
https://cybernews.com/cyber-war/infotel-hack-impacts-russian-banks/
captain_spalding said:
Hackers claim to have crippled Russia’s banking systemPro-Ukrainian hacktivists allegedly took down Infotel, a Russian internet service provider (ISP) crucial for operating a platform that Russian banks use to facilitate the financial system.
https://cybernews.com/cyber-war/infotel-hack-impacts-russian-banks/
Excellent.
Not sure if that is how Putin funds all the political unrest and conflict around the parts of the world he has had influence in.
roughbarked said:
captain_spalding said:
Hackers claim to have crippled Russia’s banking systemPro-Ukrainian hacktivists allegedly took down Infotel, a Russian internet service provider (ISP) crucial for operating a platform that Russian banks use to facilitate the financial system.
https://cybernews.com/cyber-war/infotel-hack-impacts-russian-banks/
Excellent.
Not sure if that is how Putin funds all the political unrest and conflict around the parts of the world he has had influence in.
It might, at least, get a few Russians to realise that there can be directly-felt consequences to theconflict.
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
captain_spalding said:
Hackers claim to have crippled Russia’s banking systemPro-Ukrainian hacktivists allegedly took down Infotel, a Russian internet service provider (ISP) crucial for operating a platform that Russian banks use to facilitate the financial system.
https://cybernews.com/cyber-war/infotel-hack-impacts-russian-banks/
Excellent.
Not sure if that is how Putin funds all the political unrest and conflict around the parts of the world he has had influence in.
It might, at least, get a few Russians to realise that there can be directly-felt consequences to theconflict.
Maybe some of them will realise that Putin isn’t as unassailable as he thinks.
Upgrade that comment on the flooding as a result of breaching the dam, to Many Square Kilometres of flooded landscape.
Russian “military expert” says the dam could only have been destroyed by well placed explosives, would have required great care, taken a long time. Then he is reminded of the fact that Russia controlled the area.
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a9qXrMm_460svav1.mp4
captain_spalding said:
Russian “military expert” says the dam could only have been destroyed by well placed explosives, would have required great care, taken a long time. Then he is reminded of the fact that Russia controlled the area.https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a9qXrMm_460svav1.mp4
Ask Barnes Wallis
captain_spalding said:
Will Putin window her?
Oh dear, there’s trouble at the top.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-12/yevgeny-prigozhin-rejects-contract-with-defence-ministry/102467786
Link
https://liveuamap.com/en/2023/11-june-russian-army-have-blown-up-the-dam-at-mokri-yaly
captain_spalding said:
https://liveuamap.com/en/2023/11-june-russian-army-have-blown-up-the-dam-at-mokri-yaly
This becoming ever more so genocide by the day.
roughbarked said:
captain_spalding said:
https://liveuamap.com/en/2023/11-june-russian-army-have-blown-up-the-dam-at-mokri-yaly
This becoming ever more so genocide by the day.
I suppose the Russians claim its taking out power generation infrastructure
Cymek said:
roughbarked said:
captain_spalding said:
https://liveuamap.com/en/2023/11-june-russian-army-have-blown-up-the-dam-at-mokri-yaly
This becoming ever more so genocide by the day.
I suppose the Russians claim its taking out power generation infrastructure
I think it’s more of a ploy to weaken the Ukrainians.
The Russians are probably worried that they can’t beat the Ukes on the battlefield, so they’re doing as much damage as they can on as widespread an area as they can. Blowing up dams is quick way to do this.
They’re possibly hoping that Ukrainian troops and resources will have to be diverted to rescue and care efforts for civilians in the flooded areas. Of course, it also doesn’t help the Ukes’ ability to move their forces around.
captain_spalding said:
Cymek said:
roughbarked said:This becoming ever more so genocide by the day.
I suppose the Russians claim its taking out power generation infrastructure
I think it’s more of a ploy to weaken the Ukrainians.
The Russians are probably worried that they can’t beat the Ukes on the battlefield, so they’re doing as much damage as they can on as widespread an area as they can. Blowing up dams is quick way to do this.
They’re possibly hoping that Ukrainian troops and resources will have to be diverted to rescue and care efforts for civilians in the flooded areas. Of course, it also doesn’t help the Ukes’ ability to move their forces around.
The Russians are trying to make time to both bolster their dwindling stocks of arms and cannon fodder and to sort out their military leadership schemozzle. Backed into a large corner.
We have a Russian man at work
I’ve been trying various activation phrases from movies and tv shows, no obvious reactions so far, must be something quite obscure.
Vladimir Putin says he may try to seize Ukraine lands near Russian border to prevent more strikes
Mr Putin also again threatened to withdraw Russia from the Black Sea grain deal, designed to ease a global food crisis worsened by the invasion.
Vladimir Rogov, a Russian-installed official in part of the southern Zaporizhzhia region that is under Moscow’s control, said Major-General Sergei Goryachev, Chief of Staff of Russia’s 35th Army, had been killed on the Zaporizhzhia front on Monday where Ukrainian forces had been retaking some territory.
roughbarked said:
David Petraeus: This Will Be The Last Nail On The Russian Coffin
Gosh, Gen. Petraeus has changed, man!
Maybe this link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqSAFmm3bWQ
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
David Petraeus: This Will Be The Last Nail On The Russian Coffin
Gosh, Gen. Petraeus has changed, man!
I have an open mind on this and I’m only the messenger.
captain_spalding said:
Maybe this link:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqSAFmm3bWQ
Reading into this.
roughbarked said:
captain_spalding said:
Maybe this link:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqSAFmm3bWQ
Reading into this.
It does look like I fucked up by not doing couple checks.
Sounds like something Russell would explain but there you go.
Russia says it has no grounds to maintain ‘status quo’ on grain export deal; 700,000 Ukrainian children allegedly taken from conflict zones (according to Russia!)
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-03/russia-no-grounds-to-maintain-status-quo-on-grain-deal/102555058
roughbarked said:
roughbarked said:
captain_spalding said:
Maybe this link:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqSAFmm3bWQ
Reading into this.
It does look like I fucked up by not doing couple checks.
Sounds like something Russell would explain but there you go.
If you want to see inside the General Dynamics F-16 fighters which have been promised to Ukraine, and on which Ukrainian pilots are currently training, then this is a good video to watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_HUrfQqUmA
One of the first things you notice is the fabulous ‘view out of the window’. The pilot has an almost unobstructed view right around the sky. The new F-35 has good vision scope, too, but i doubt that it’s quite as good as this.
Another thing to note is the crisp and responsive handling of the aeroplane. It was designed and built as a fighter, to do just this kind of flying, and do it well.
Then there’s the obvious physical strain on the pilot in the turns and twists he has to undertake. He undergoes stresses of up to 7G in the video, meaning that he feels the effects of being 7 times his normal weight. I’ve had 6G in the back seat of a jet trainer, and i can tell you that ‘stress’ is the very word for it, and this bloke does it all the time.
Yes, he gets ‘shot down’ in the exercise, but, as he explains, he’s up against a very experienced pilot in an F-15, which was designed as and still is THE ‘air superiority’ fighter of recent decades. Every plane and every pilot is at risk of being shot down on any mission, so it’s no black mark against plane or pilot, but a valuable lesson.
In short, you can see why the Ukrainians are eager to get F-16s.
captain_spalding said:
If you want to see inside the General Dynamics F-16 fighters which have been promised to Ukraine, and on which Ukrainian pilots are currently training, then this is a good video to watch:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_HUrfQqUmA
One of the first things you notice is the fabulous ‘view out of the window’. The pilot has an almost unobstructed view right around the sky. The new F-35 has good vision scope, too, but i doubt that it’s quite as good as this.
Another thing to note is the crisp and responsive handling of the aeroplane. It was designed and built as a fighter, to do just this kind of flying, and do it well.
Then there’s the obvious physical strain on the pilot in the turns and twists he has to undertake. He undergoes stresses of up to 7G in the video, meaning that he feels the effects of being 7 times his normal weight. I’ve had 6G in the back seat of a jet trainer, and i can tell you that ‘stress’ is the very word for it, and this bloke does it all the time.
Yes, he gets ‘shot down’ in the exercise, but, as he explains, he’s up against a very experienced pilot in an F-15, which was designed as and still is THE ‘air superiority’ fighter of recent decades. Every plane and every pilot is at risk of being shot down on any mission, so it’s no black mark against plane or pilot, but a valuable lesson.
In short, you can see why the Ukrainians are eager to get F-16s.
FWIW the seat in an F-16 is laid back somewhat compared to most other fighters, to help reduce the loss of blood pressure at the top of the body.
I’m not sure who’s going to be flying those F-16’s as it takes many months to get properly trained on any new type of aircraft like that. I doubt very much that there’s any Ukrainians qualified to fly them.
Spiny Norman said:
captain_spalding said:
If you want to see inside the General Dynamics F-16 fighters which have been promised to Ukraine, and on which Ukrainian pilots are currently training, then this is a good video to watch:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_HUrfQqUmA
One of the first things you notice is the fabulous ‘view out of the window’. The pilot has an almost unobstructed view right around the sky. The new F-35 has good vision scope, too, but i doubt that it’s quite as good as this.
Another thing to note is the crisp and responsive handling of the aeroplane. It was designed and built as a fighter, to do just this kind of flying, and do it well.
Then there’s the obvious physical strain on the pilot in the turns and twists he has to undertake. He undergoes stresses of up to 7G in the video, meaning that he feels the effects of being 7 times his normal weight. I’ve had 6G in the back seat of a jet trainer, and i can tell you that ‘stress’ is the very word for it, and this bloke does it all the time.
Yes, he gets ‘shot down’ in the exercise, but, as he explains, he’s up against a very experienced pilot in an F-15, which was designed as and still is THE ‘air superiority’ fighter of recent decades. Every plane and every pilot is at risk of being shot down on any mission, so it’s no black mark against plane or pilot, but a valuable lesson.
In short, you can see why the Ukrainians are eager to get F-16s.
FWIW the seat in an F-16 is laid back somewhat compared to most other fighters, to help reduce the loss of blood pressure at the top of the body.
I’m not sure who’s going to be flying those F-16’s as it takes many months to get properly trained on any new type of aircraft like that. I doubt very much that there’s any Ukrainians qualified to fly them.
There have been reports that the Ukrainians are adapting remarkably quickly to the F-16. But, as the pilots reported on have experience in MiG-29s and Su-27s, that’s not too surprising. Apparently a big hurdle is learning to deal fluently with a cockpit where all the displays are in English.
captain_spalding said:
Spiny Norman said:
captain_spalding said:
If you want to see inside the General Dynamics F-16 fighters which have been promised to Ukraine, and on which Ukrainian pilots are currently training, then this is a good video to watch:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_HUrfQqUmA
One of the first things you notice is the fabulous ‘view out of the window’. The pilot has an almost unobstructed view right around the sky. The new F-35 has good vision scope, too, but i doubt that it’s quite as good as this.
Another thing to note is the crisp and responsive handling of the aeroplane. It was designed and built as a fighter, to do just this kind of flying, and do it well.
Then there’s the obvious physical strain on the pilot in the turns and twists he has to undertake. He undergoes stresses of up to 7G in the video, meaning that he feels the effects of being 7 times his normal weight. I’ve had 6G in the back seat of a jet trainer, and i can tell you that ‘stress’ is the very word for it, and this bloke does it all the time.
Yes, he gets ‘shot down’ in the exercise, but, as he explains, he’s up against a very experienced pilot in an F-15, which was designed as and still is THE ‘air superiority’ fighter of recent decades. Every plane and every pilot is at risk of being shot down on any mission, so it’s no black mark against plane or pilot, but a valuable lesson.
In short, you can see why the Ukrainians are eager to get F-16s.
FWIW the seat in an F-16 is laid back somewhat compared to most other fighters, to help reduce the loss of blood pressure at the top of the body.
I’m not sure who’s going to be flying those F-16’s as it takes many months to get properly trained on any new type of aircraft like that. I doubt very much that there’s any Ukrainians qualified to fly them.
There have been reports that the Ukrainians are adapting remarkably quickly to the F-16. But, as the pilots reported on have experience in MiG-29s and Su-27s, that’s not too surprising. Apparently a big hurdle is learning to deal fluently with a cockpit where all the displays are in English.
Yeah but it’s not that easy sorry. The various systems and sub-systems are all vastly different. Sure they could fly around with little transitional training, but they’d likely still get shot in a gunfight against an experienced opponent in a different fighter. It’s really not as easy as you think when watching YT vids.
An example is about 25 year ago when I was a beta-tester for an Su-27 combat simulation. Literally every time I got into a missile or guns fight with the more experienced members of the club I’d lose.
Spiny Norman said:
Yeah but it’s not that easy sorry. The various systems and sub-systems are all vastly different. Sure they could fly around with little transitional training, but they’d likely still get shot in a gunfight against an experienced opponent in a different fighter. It’s really not as easy as you think when watching YT vids.
An example is about 25 year ago when I was a beta-tester for an Su-27 combat simulation. Literally every time I got into a missile or guns fight with the more experienced members of the club I’d lose.
FWIW when I lived in Auckland in 1998, a good mate of mine was in the NZ Navy. I showed him one of the combat missions we did. It was where I’d launch an anti-ship missile and then try to get away without getting shot-down. The sim could have been coded a bit better as the enemy didn’t really react until they were shot at, instead of doing so as soon as the opposing force was detected.
So anyway I got as close as I dared, due to their CAP fighters, launched the missile and hit the afterburners to get the hell out of there. But the enemy Su-27’s were able to catch me and I got a missile up the exhaust pipes. Fortunately the Su-27’s have a system where it does an auto-eject when it detects that the airframe is badly damaged so it spat me out.
My Navy mate simple said, “what the hell happened just then??”
:)
The older model F-16 is not going to be a match for the latest Su-35 armed with the latest Russian long range missiles. But an F-16 with AIM-120 AAMRAMs is going to be much better than what they currently got. I don’t think there’s a chance in hell of retro-fitting and integrating the AIM-120 onto the MiG-29. There won’t be any dogfighting going on, just stand-ff beyond visual range firing of missiles. The Russian Su-35s are currently capable of taking out Ukrainian aircraft without them even knowing they are being targeted. What they need to do is push the Russian missile carrying fighters back a bit. The Ukrainians are looking for anything that can fire an AIM-120. There is even talk of them buying up some of our old F/A-18s which are currently in storage after being recently retired.
Spiny Norman said:
FWIW when I lived in Auckland in 1998, a good mate of mine was in the NZ Navy. I showed him one of the combat missions we did. It was where I’d launch an anti-ship missile and then try to get away without getting shot-down. The sim could have been coded a bit better as the enemy didn’t really react until they were shot at, instead of doing so as soon as the opposing force was detected.
So anyway I got as close as I dared, due to their CAP fighters, launched the missile and hit the afterburners to get the hell out of there. But the enemy Su-27’s were able to catch me and I got a missile up the exhaust pipes. Fortunately the Su-27’s have a system where it does an auto-eject when it detects that the airframe is badly damaged so it spat me out.
My Navy mate simple said, “what the hell happened just then??” :)
I don’t doubt that he was baffled. It would have been like showing a video/sim of a naval battle to an RNZAF pilot and expecting him to grasp all the nuances.
The RNZN didn’t/doesn’t have any fixed wing aviators, and i think that only about 25% of them have ever seen a gun. It’s more like P&O, but with a less attractive paint scheme.
captain_spalding said:
Spiny Norman said:FWIW when I lived in Auckland in 1998, a good mate of mine was in the NZ Navy. I showed him one of the combat missions we did. It was where I’d launch an anti-ship missile and then try to get away without getting shot-down. The sim could have been coded a bit better as the enemy didn’t really react until they were shot at, instead of doing so as soon as the opposing force was detected.
So anyway I got as close as I dared, due to their CAP fighters, launched the missile and hit the afterburners to get the hell out of there. But the enemy Su-27’s were able to catch me and I got a missile up the exhaust pipes. Fortunately the Su-27’s have a system where it does an auto-eject when it detects that the airframe is badly damaged so it spat me out.
My Navy mate simple said, “what the hell happened just then??” :)
I don’t doubt that he was baffled. It would have been like showing a video/sim of a naval battle to an RNZAF pilot and expecting him to grasp all the nuances.
The RNZN didn’t/doesn’t have any fixed wing aviators, and i think that only about 25% of them have ever seen a gun. It’s more like P&O, but with a less attractive paint scheme.
True, but the air combat happens at more like 1,500 km/h and often 7+ G’s. ;)
You know, it is starting to look like the whole mutiny thing was staged to allow time to move troops to different attacking positions.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-06/wagner-group-yevgeny-prigozhin-belarus-russia/102572646
roughbarked said:
You know, it is starting to look like the whole mutiny thing was staged to allow time to move troops to different attacking positions.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-06/wagner-group-yevgeny-prigozhin-belarus-russia/102572646
Wouldn’t put it past them. A sort-of-plausible excuse to deploy forces demonstrably hostile to Ukraine, and among Russia’s most effective, in a technically ‘neutral’ country.
It might also have been an attempt to get the Ukrainians to jump the gun on making a thrust in strength. Present a picture of an enemy in disarray and disagreement, forces moving away from the combat zone, complaints about poor supply, shortages, poor support.
Tempt the Ukrainians into trying to take advantage of it, and reveal any penetration forces that they may have assembled.
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
You know, it is starting to look like the whole mutiny thing was staged to allow time to move troops to different attacking positions.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-06/wagner-group-yevgeny-prigozhin-belarus-russia/102572646
Wouldn’t put it past them. A sort-of-plausible excuse to deploy forces demonstrably hostile to Ukraine, and among Russia’s most effective, in a technically ‘neutral’ country.
It might also have been an attempt to get the Ukrainians to jump the gun on making a thrust in strength. Present a picture of an enemy in disarray and disagreement, forces moving away from the combat zone, complaints about poor supply, shortages, poor support.
Tempt the Ukrainians into trying to take advantage of it, and reveal any penetration forces that they may have assembled.
This was one of our initial thoughts, seemed a fairly orderly process, and now
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-11/prigozhin-putin-met-after-mutiny-kremlin/102585348
The confirmation of a face-to-face meeting with Mr Putin, who had branded Mr Prigozhin a backstabbing traitor, adds a new twist to the uncertainty surrounding the mercenary chief.
imagine that.
Now look at this totally not deepfaked
image of “Russian military Chief of Staff General Valery Gerasimov appeared in a video for the first time since the rebellion.(Russian defence ministy via AP)”.
Weird:
…
Putin met with Wagner chief Prigozhin after mutiny, Kremlin says
By Mary Ilyushina, Robyn Dixon and Natalia Abbakumova
Updated July 10, 2023 at 4:18 p.m. EDT|Published July 10, 2023 at 7:48 a.m. EDT
Russian President Vladimir Putin met with Wagner Group mercenary boss Yevgeniy Prigozhin and 35 of his commanders on June 29 in Moscow, five days after Prigozhin launched his brief mutiny to oust the country’s top military officials, whom Prigozhin said had botched the invasion of Ukraine.
The meeting was held shortly after Putin vowed to mete out “harsh” punishment against Wagner’s leaders as the Russian president grappled with the greatest challenge of his tenure. Russian elites have criticized Putin’s decision to drop insurgency charges against Prigozhin and the mercenaries after Wagner shot down several Russian aircraft and killed Russian troops.
In a three-hour meeting, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said, Putin “gave his assessment” of the private military company’s fighting record in Ukraine as well as its actions on the day of the mutiny.
“The president listened to the commanders’ explanations and offered them options for further employment options and combat application,” Peskov told reporters in a conference call Monday.
“The commanders presented their version of what had happened,” he said. “They emphasized that they were staunch supporters and soldiers of the leader and supreme commander in chief and said they were ready to continue fighting for the motherland.”
When Peskov was asked June 29 about Prigozhin’s whereabouts, he said he had no information. Putin made a brief appearance that day at a government forum as the Kremlin sought to promote the impression that Russian society was “consolidating” around the president, and to boost the Russian leader’s popularity with some staged events.
Prigozhin returned to Russia last week, according to Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko, a Putin ally. A businessman in St. Petersburg, Prigozhin’s hometown, said the Wagner leader had returned to reclaim money and weapons seized by the Russian government.
The future of his mercenary group remained unclear. The June 29 meeting suggests the details of the deal between Prigozhin and Putin, which was brokered by Lukashenko, were still being hammered out.
Ultimately, the Wagner chief agreed to stop the “March of Justice,” his armed advance on Moscow, and Putin agreed to not punish him or his fighters.
Prigozhin has said his conflict with Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, and particularly Shoigu’s plan to absorb Wagner into the regular army, was the catalyst for the rebellion.
Putin said Wagner fighters could sign contracts with the defense ministry, relocate to Belarus, or disband and go home. Satellite imagery revealed a camp being built in Belarus, but neither Wagner nor Lukashenko confirmed it would serve as a new base for the mercenaries.
Mercenary service is technically illegal in Russia, but Wagner started taking part in the war a few months after Russia invaded Ukraine in February 2022. The mercenary group is a key assault force, responsible for the few battlefield wins Russia has achieved in recent months.
Russia’s top military commander in the war, another Prigozhin target, reemerged Monday after two weeks of silence, in a video posted by the defense ministry. The video shows Gen. Valery Gerasimov, chief of Russia’s general staff, receiving battlefield updates and ordering steps to identify Ukrainian missile launch sites and bolster the country’s protection against air attacks. It was unclear when the video was recorded.
Prigozhin has repeatedly accused Gerasimov and Shoigu of denying ammunition to his mercenaries, training their own soldiers poorly and failing in Ukraine.
Since the rebellion, Kremlin propagandists have been striving to portray Putin as a wise leader who averted civil war in a single day. But Wagner’s lightning advance to within 125 miles of Moscow, and its capture, apparently unopposed, of cities en route, raised questions about Russia’s military preparedness — and who in Russian military and security services knew about the rebellion in advance but did nothing to warn authorities.
Gen. Sergei Surovikin, under scrutiny for his close relations with Prigozhin, was not present at Gerasimov’s meeting. Russian independent media have speculated that he has been detained. Alexei Venediktov, the longtime editor in chief of Echo of Moscow radio, which was forced to close in Russia, said Monday that Surovikin did not call or send a message to his wife on her birthday, July 3, nor did he contact his eldest daughter on Monday, her birthday.
Surovikin is popular among Russian military bloggers and hard-liners who have been criticizing the top brass. Putin’s apparent decision to keep Shoigu and Gerasimov in their jobs risks deepening divisions in the military and undermining Russian military morale as Ukraine continues to press its counteroffensive to expel the invaders.
The June 29 meeting underscores Prigozhin’s continuing leverage and deep-rooted connections in government, and also his broader popularity, particularly among pro-war Russian nationalists who have been pressing for tougher action against Ukraine.
Igor Girkin, a veteran of the 2014 Russian campaign in Ukraine and now a nationalist critic of the Kremlin, ridiculed Putin’s decision to meet with Prigozhin.
“Will there be a photo of 35 ‘musicians’ swindling and making the fool out of the president too?” he asked in his Telegram blog, using a nickname for Wagner fighters. “And will Putin receive the parents and widows of the killed pilots, or ‘that’s a different story?’”
Pro-Kremlin commentators said Putin was attempting “to understand the political origins of the crisis” and prevent future disturbances.
“It is also important to affirm Wagner fighters’ loyalty — to Russia, not Prigozhin,” said political consultant Sergei Markov. “Prigozhin himself, apparently, presented himself negatively, because after this meeting there was a strong information attack on him.”
Prigozhin his emerged as an unlikely truth-teller in Russia, willing to talk openly about the heavy casualties and the defense ministry’s failures. In the week before the rebellion, his approval rating reached 58 percent, according to independent opinion pollsters Levada Center.
The Kremlin has moved aggressively to destroy Prigozhin’s popularity. Over the weekend, the Russian state television flagship news show “Vesti Nedeli” broadcast a piece claiming that “opportunist Prigozhin” tried to seize lucrative real estate in his hometown of St. Petersburg to advance his business interests.
Other reports on state media portrayed him as a greedy bandit with a criminal past motivated by money, and asked whether he embezzled some of the billions of dollars he received in government contracts to bankroll the sprawling empire from which the Kremlin is now struggling to untangle itself.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/10/russia-wagner-putin-prigozhin-meeting/?
Witty Rejoinder said:
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
You know, it is starting to look like the whole mutiny thing was staged to allow time to move troops to different attacking positions.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-06/wagner-group-yevgeny-prigozhin-belarus-russia/102572646
Wouldn’t put it past them. A sort-of-plausible excuse to deploy forces demonstrably hostile to Ukraine, and among Russia’s most effective, in a technically ‘neutral’ country.
It might also have been an attempt to get the Ukrainians to jump the gun on making a thrust in strength. Present a picture of an enemy in disarray and disagreement, forces moving away from the combat zone, complaints about poor supply, shortages, poor support.
Tempt the Ukrainians into trying to take advantage of it, and reveal any penetration forces that they may have assembled.
This was one of our initial thoughts, seemed a fairly orderly process, and now
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-11/prigozhin-putin-met-after-mutiny-kremlin/102585348
The confirmation of a face-to-face meeting with Mr Putin, who had branded Mr Prigozhin a backstabbing traitor, adds a new twist to the uncertainty surrounding the mercenary chief.
imagine that.
Now look at this totally not deepfaked
image of “Russian military Chief of Staff General Valery Gerasimov appeared in a video for the first time since the rebellion.(Russian defence ministy via AP)”.
Weird:
…
Putin met with Wagner chief Prigozhin after mutiny, Kremlin says
By Mary Ilyushina, Robyn Dixon and Natalia Abbakumova
Updated July 10, 2023 at 4:18 p.m. EDT|Published July 10, 2023 at 7:48 a.m. EDTRussian President Vladimir Putin met with Wagner Group mercenary boss Yevgeniy Prigozhin and 35 of his commanders on June 29 in Moscow, five days after Prigozhin launched his brief mutiny to oust the country’s top military officials, whom Prigozhin said had botched the invasion of Ukraine.
The meeting was held shortly after Putin vowed to mete out “harsh” punishment against Wagner’s leaders as the Russian president grappled with the greatest challenge of his tenure. Russian elites have criticized Putin’s decision to drop insurgency charges against Prigozhin and the mercenaries after Wagner shot down several Russian aircraft and killed Russian troops.
In a three-hour meeting, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said, Putin “gave his assessment” of the private military company’s fighting record in Ukraine as well as its actions on the day of the mutiny.
“The president listened to the commanders’ explanations and offered them options for further employment options and combat application,” Peskov told reporters in a conference call Monday.
“The commanders presented their version of what had happened,” he said. “They emphasized that they were staunch supporters and soldiers of the leader and supreme commander in chief and said they were ready to continue fighting for the motherland.”
When Peskov was asked June 29 about Prigozhin’s whereabouts, he said he had no information. Putin made a brief appearance that day at a government forum as the Kremlin sought to promote the impression that Russian society was “consolidating” around the president, and to boost the Russian leader’s popularity with some staged events.
Prigozhin returned to Russia last week, according to Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko, a Putin ally. A businessman in St. Petersburg, Prigozhin’s hometown, said the Wagner leader had returned to reclaim money and weapons seized by the Russian government.
The future of his mercenary group remained unclear. The June 29 meeting suggests the details of the deal between Prigozhin and Putin, which was brokered by Lukashenko, were still being hammered out.
Ultimately, the Wagner chief agreed to stop the “March of Justice,” his armed advance on Moscow, and Putin agreed to not punish him or his fighters.
Prigozhin has said his conflict with Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, and particularly Shoigu’s plan to absorb Wagner into the regular army, was the catalyst for the rebellion.
Putin said Wagner fighters could sign contracts with the defense ministry, relocate to Belarus, or disband and go home. Satellite imagery revealed a camp being built in Belarus, but neither Wagner nor Lukashenko confirmed it would serve as a new base for the mercenaries.
Mercenary service is technically illegal in Russia, but Wagner started taking part in the war a few months after Russia invaded Ukraine in February 2022. The mercenary group is a key assault force, responsible for the few battlefield wins Russia has achieved in recent months.
Russia’s top military commander in the war, another Prigozhin target, reemerged Monday after two weeks of silence, in a video posted by the defense ministry. The video shows Gen. Valery Gerasimov, chief of Russia’s general staff, receiving battlefield updates and ordering steps to identify Ukrainian missile launch sites and bolster the country’s protection against air attacks. It was unclear when the video was recorded.
Prigozhin has repeatedly accused Gerasimov and Shoigu of denying ammunition to his mercenaries, training their own soldiers poorly and failing in Ukraine.
Since the rebellion, Kremlin propagandists have been striving to portray Putin as a wise leader who averted civil war in a single day. But Wagner’s lightning advance to within 125 miles of Moscow, and its capture, apparently unopposed, of cities en route, raised questions about Russia’s military preparedness — and who in Russian military and security services knew about the rebellion in advance but did nothing to warn authorities.
Gen. Sergei Surovikin, under scrutiny for his close relations with Prigozhin, was not present at Gerasimov’s meeting. Russian independent media have speculated that he has been detained. Alexei Venediktov, the longtime editor in chief of Echo of Moscow radio, which was forced to close in Russia, said Monday that Surovikin did not call or send a message to his wife on her birthday, July 3, nor did he contact his eldest daughter on Monday, her birthday.
Surovikin is popular among Russian military bloggers and hard-liners who have been criticizing the top brass. Putin’s apparent decision to keep Shoigu and Gerasimov in their jobs risks deepening divisions in the military and undermining Russian military morale as Ukraine continues to press its counteroffensive to expel the invaders.
The June 29 meeting underscores Prigozhin’s continuing leverage and deep-rooted connections in government, and also his broader popularity, particularly among pro-war Russian nationalists who have been pressing for tougher action against Ukraine.
Igor Girkin, a veteran of the 2014 Russian campaign in Ukraine and now a nationalist critic of the Kremlin, ridiculed Putin’s decision to meet with Prigozhin.
“Will there be a photo of 35 ‘musicians’ swindling and making the fool out of the president too?” he asked in his Telegram blog, using a nickname for Wagner fighters. “And will Putin receive the parents and widows of the killed pilots, or ‘that’s a different story?’”
Pro-Kremlin commentators said Putin was attempting “to understand the political origins of the crisis” and prevent future disturbances.
“It is also important to affirm Wagner fighters’ loyalty — to Russia, not Prigozhin,” said political consultant Sergei Markov. “Prigozhin himself, apparently, presented himself negatively, because after this meeting there was a strong information attack on him.”
Prigozhin his emerged as an unlikely truth-teller in Russia, willing to talk openly about the heavy casualties and the defense ministry’s failures. In the week before the rebellion, his approval rating reached 58 percent, according to independent opinion pollsters Levada Center.
The Kremlin has moved aggressively to destroy Prigozhin’s popularity. Over the weekend, the Russian state television flagship news show “Vesti Nedeli” broadcast a piece claiming that “opportunist Prigozhin” tried to seize lucrative real estate in his hometown of St. Petersburg to advance his business interests.
Other reports on state media portrayed him as a greedy bandit with a criminal past motivated by money, and asked whether he embezzled some of the billions of dollars he received in government contracts to bankroll the sprawling empire from which the Kremlin is now struggling to untangle itself.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/10/russia-wagner-putin-prigozhin-meeting/ ?
Understandable¡
Strange, we thought everyone knew that UA had the upper hand and this was going to be a cake walk against those foolish RUns.
The message from France this week — and the UK in May — is that they realise that Ukraine is in trouble on the battlefield and has decided to provide them exactly what they’re requesting.
SCIENCE said:
Strange, we thought everyone knew that UA had the upper hand and this was going to be a cake walk against those foolish RUns.
The message from France this week — and the UK in May — is that they realise that Ukraine is in trouble on the battlefield and has decided to provide them exactly what they’re requesting.
Gains have been pretty slow in the last few weeks.
dv said:
SCIENCE said:Strange, we thought everyone knew that UA had the upper hand and this was going to be a cake walk against those foolish RUns.
The message from France this week — and the UK in May — is that they realise that Ukraine is in trouble on the battlefield and has decided to provide them exactly what they’re requesting.
Gains have been pretty slow in the last few weeks.
If there’s large and decisive moves to be made, then August and September are the likely times.
By then the reconnaissance will be completed, the plans formulated, and the forces readied.
Operations will most likely have a completion date not later than October, because things rapidly get harder to do after that.
captain_spalding said:
dv said:
SCIENCE said:Strange, we thought everyone knew that UA had the upper hand and this was going to be a cake walk against those foolish RUns.
The message from France this week — and the UK in May — is that they realise that Ukraine is in trouble on the battlefield and has decided to provide them exactly what they’re requesting.
Gains have been pretty slow in the last few weeks.
If there’s large and decisive moves to be made, then August and September are the likely times.
By then the reconnaissance will be completed, the plans formulated, and the forces readied.
Operations will most likely have a completion date not later than October, because things rapidly get harder to do after that.
Blowing up that dam was a big set-back for any Ukrainian pan to launch offensives in the south. The big lake is draining, leaving behind a muddy wasteland above the dam. Below the dam where the area has been flooded roads and bridges have been washed away and that area is also a muddy wasteland. They were probably going to attack to the south, towards Crimean and towards the Sea of Azov. Now they are making attacks in the east, in the Donbas, but against heavily fortified and land-mined Russian positions. So there is no huge progress at the moment, clearing minefields is slow and tedious.
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:
dv said:Gains have been pretty slow in the last few weeks.
If there’s large and decisive moves to be made, then August and September are the likely times.
By then the reconnaissance will be completed, the plans formulated, and the forces readied.
Operations will most likely have a completion date not later than October, because things rapidly get harder to do after that.
Blowing up that dam was a big set-back for any Ukrainian pan to launch offensives in the south. The big lake is draining, leaving behind a muddy wasteland above the dam. Below the dam where the area has been flooded roads and bridges have been washed away and that area is also a muddy wasteland. They were probably going to attack to the south, towards Crimean and towards the Sea of Azov. Now they are making attacks in the east, in the Donbas, but against heavily fortified and land-mined Russian positions. So there is no huge progress at the moment, clearing minefields is slow and tedious.
Here’s hoping that Plan B is a good one.
Anyway, there’s still a number of routes for attack toward the Sea of Azov. Maybe a little farther north than first planned, but still on the table.
captain_spalding said:
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:If there’s large and decisive moves to be made, then August and September are the likely times.
By then the reconnaissance will be completed, the plans formulated, and the forces readied.
Operations will most likely have a completion date not later than October, because things rapidly get harder to do after that.
Blowing up that dam was a big set-back for any Ukrainian pan to launch offensives in the south. The big lake is draining, leaving behind a muddy wasteland above the dam. Below the dam where the area has been flooded roads and bridges have been washed away and that area is also a muddy wasteland. They were probably going to attack to the south, towards Crimean and towards the Sea of Azov. Now they are making attacks in the east, in the Donbas, but against heavily fortified and land-mined Russian positions. So there is no huge progress at the moment, clearing minefields is slow and tedious.
Here’s hoping that Plan B is a good one.
Hopefully assassinating generals and other leadership positions will stun the Russians a bit.
I think it was probably unrealistic for Ukraine to hope to join NATO during the war since it would basically mean all members are at war with Russia.
dv said:
I think it was probably unrealistic for Ukraine to hope to join NATO during the war since it would basically mean all members are at war with Russia.
I am far more comfortable with NATO not being officially and directly at war with Russia. I think Ukraine need to understand that, and I am sure that privately they do.
dv said:
I think it was probably unrealistic for Ukraine to hope to join NATO during the war since it would basically mean all members are at war with Russia.
Surely it was just a play to score the consolation prize, more weapons, more economic growth.
I have spent between 1-2 hours every day since the invasion of Ukraine by Russia and have watched many U-Tube recordings, many of which are absolute rubbish. However, the following two links I find give a condensed accurate and progressive account of what is happening in the conflict.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LgvK3zNbOk&ab_channel=ReportingfromUkraine
https://www.youtube.com/@DenysDavydov
dv said:
I think it was probably unrealistic for Ukraine to hope to join NATO during the war since it would basically mean all members are at war with Russia.
Australia must send 200,00 men and women under arms to ukraine – they would love fighting for freedom and democracy
Ukraine must be taken into NATO immediately
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:
party_pants said:Blowing up that dam was a big set-back for any Ukrainian pan to launch offensives in the south. The big lake is draining, leaving behind a muddy wasteland above the dam. Below the dam where the area has been flooded roads and bridges have been washed away and that area is also a muddy wasteland. They were probably going to attack to the south, towards Crimean and towards the Sea of Azov. Now they are making attacks in the east, in the Donbas, but against heavily fortified and land-mined Russian positions. So there is no huge progress at the moment, clearing minefields is slow and tedious.
Here’s hoping that Plan B is a good one.
Hopefully assassinating generals and other leadership positions will stun the Russians a bit.
Meanwhile Russia churns out shells, tanks, subs, warships, jet fighters/ bombers, bullets, soldiers.
captain_spalding said:
Anyway, there’s still a number of routes for attack toward the Sea of Azov. Maybe a little farther north than first planned, but still on the table.
wookiemeister said:
party_pants said:
captain_spalding said:Here’s hoping that Plan B is a good one.
Hopefully assassinating generals and other leadership positions will stun the Russians a bit.
NATO couldn’t win against hillsmen with old AK47s, what makes you think they would win against a large, powerful military bloc ? The yanks dumped 80 – 90 BILLION dollars of equipment whilst leaving Afghanistan.Meanwhile Russia churns out shells, tanks, subs, warships, jet fighters/ bombers, bullets, soldiers.
The Russians are not as sophisticated as the Afghanis. They have no hope against NATO.
party_pants said:
wookiemeister said:
party_pants said:Hopefully assassinating generals and other leadership positions will stun the Russians a bit.
NATO couldn’t win against hillsmen with old AK47s, what makes you think they would win against a large, powerful military bloc ? The yanks dumped 80 – 90 BILLION dollars of equipment whilst leaving Afghanistan.Meanwhile Russia churns out shells, tanks, subs, warships, jet fighters/ bombers, bullets, soldiers.
The Russians are not as sophisticated as the Afghanis. They have no hope against NATO.
wookiemeister said:
party_pants said:
wookiemeister said:NATO couldn’t win against hillsmen with old AK47s, what makes you think they would win against a large, powerful military bloc ? The yanks dumped 80 – 90 BILLION dollars of equipment whilst leaving Afghanistan.
Meanwhile Russia churns out shells, tanks, subs, warships, jet fighters/ bombers, bullets, soldiers.
The Russians are not as sophisticated as the Afghanis. They have no hope against NATO.
Right…………………………….
As i see it the russians will ramp up new tank production to about maybe 5000 tanks a year, they’ve said this will be a long conflict.
I’ve heard some estimates saying they are pumping out anything up to 6 million artillery shells a year.
They are ramping up hypersonic missile production, I’d assume this might hit maybe 5000 or 10,000 a year – presumably as the war goes on in two years time you might expect hypersonic missile attacks on Australian infrastructure as Australia gets more involved in the war. Maybe they’d hit all the powerstations, handful of oil refineries, power networks, hit the supertankers bringing fuel to Australia. This will be fine the Aussie spirit will shine through – though the word Aussie will be cancelled of course.
wookiemeister said:
As i see it the russians will ramp up new tank production to about maybe 5000 tanks a year, they’ve said this will be a long conflict.I’ve heard some estimates saying they are pumping out anything up to 6 million artillery shells a year.
They are ramping up hypersonic missile production, I’d assume this might hit maybe 5000 or 10,000 a year – presumably as the war goes on in two years time you might expect hypersonic missile attacks on Australian infrastructure as Australia gets more involved in the war. Maybe they’d hit all the powerstations, handful of oil refineries, power networks, hit the supertankers bringing fuel to Australia. This will be fine the Aussie spirit will shine through – though the word Aussie will be cancelled of course.
Russia has just one tank factory churning out 20 tanks a month, with demand outstripping production by a factor of ten, says report
Russia has just one tank factory, which can produce around 20 new tanks every month.
Demand for tanks is now outstripping production by a factor of ten, according to The Economist.
Russia is losing around 150 tanks a month in Ukraine, and is becoming reliant on refurbished vehicles.
In the 1940s the Soviet Union was able to produce 1,000 tanks a month. Today, Russia can produce just 20, with a single factory struggling to keep pace with outsized demand caused by the war in Ukraine, according to The Economist.
The British publication reported that Russia now has just one tank factory, UralVagonZavod, a massive 1930s-built industrial complex in eastern Russia.
It may be one of the largest tank manufacturers in the world, with Fortune estimating that it has 30,000 employees, but each month it is only able to produce tanks in the double digits, The Economist said, citing liberal Russian media outlet Novaya Gazeta.
That’s nowhere near demand: one Western official told the publication that demand is outstripping supply by a factor of 10.
Russia is losing around 150 tanks a month in Ukraine, according to an analysis by open source intelligence platform Oryx. It has lost 1,779 tanks since February 2022, Oryx reported.
Tank production is harder than it was in the 1940s, when the Soviet Union was churning out vehicles, largely because modern-day tanks are more complex to build and far more sophisticated, according to The Economist.
But other factors are also involved.
A shortage of parts, particularly semiconductors, has hampered Russian production, The Economist reported.
And UralVagonZavod hasn’t been properly modernized because of financial mismanagement and significant debts, it said.
As a result, Russia is becoming increasingly reliant on restoring older tanks, which it has in the thousands in storage.
UralVagonZavod is refurbishing about eight old tanks a month, with three other repair plants in Russia rebuilding another 17 or so monthly, The Economist said. Two more plants are due to come online in the coming months, per the media outlet.
Russia may soon be able to resurrect around 90 tanks each month, in addition to the 20 new ones being built, but even this would fail to match its estimated losses.
https://news.yahoo.com/russia-just-one-tank-factory-122420611.html?fr=yhssrp_catchall
PermeateFree said:
wookiemeister said:
As i see it the russians will ramp up new tank production to about maybe 5000 tanks a year, they’ve said this will be a long conflict.I’ve heard some estimates saying they are pumping out anything up to 6 million artillery shells a year.
They are ramping up hypersonic missile production, I’d assume this might hit maybe 5000 or 10,000 a year – presumably as the war goes on in two years time you might expect hypersonic missile attacks on Australian infrastructure as Australia gets more involved in the war. Maybe they’d hit all the powerstations, handful of oil refineries, power networks, hit the supertankers bringing fuel to Australia. This will be fine the Aussie spirit will shine through – though the word Aussie will be cancelled of course.
Russia has just one tank factory churning out 20 tanks a month, with demand outstripping production by a factor of ten, says report
Russia has just one tank factory, which can produce around 20 new tanks every month.
Demand for tanks is now outstripping production by a factor of ten, according to The Economist.
Russia is losing around 150 tanks a month in Ukraine, and is becoming reliant on refurbished vehicles.
In the 1940s the Soviet Union was able to produce 1,000 tanks a month. Today, Russia can produce just 20, with a single factory struggling to keep pace with outsized demand caused by the war in Ukraine, according to The Economist.
The British publication reported that Russia now has just one tank factory, UralVagonZavod, a massive 1930s-built industrial complex in eastern Russia.
It may be one of the largest tank manufacturers in the world, with Fortune estimating that it has 30,000 employees, but each month it is only able to produce tanks in the double digits, The Economist said, citing liberal Russian media outlet Novaya Gazeta.
That’s nowhere near demand: one Western official told the publication that demand is outstripping supply by a factor of 10.
Russia is losing around 150 tanks a month in Ukraine, according to an analysis by open source intelligence platform Oryx. It has lost 1,779 tanks since February 2022, Oryx reported.
Tank production is harder than it was in the 1940s, when the Soviet Union was churning out vehicles, largely because modern-day tanks are more complex to build and far more sophisticated, according to The Economist.
But other factors are also involved.
A shortage of parts, particularly semiconductors, has hampered Russian production, The Economist reported.
And UralVagonZavod hasn’t been properly modernized because of financial mismanagement and significant debts, it said.
As a result, Russia is becoming increasingly reliant on restoring older tanks, which it has in the thousands in storage.
UralVagonZavod is refurbishing about eight old tanks a month, with three other repair plants in Russia rebuilding another 17 or so monthly, The Economist said. Two more plants are due to come online in the coming months, per the media outlet.
Russia may soon be able to resurrect around 90 tanks each month, in addition to the 20 new ones being built, but even this would fail to match its estimated losses.
https://news.yahoo.com/russia-just-one-tank-factory-122420611.html?fr=yhssrp_catchall
Unfortunately for you Wookie, is the Russia you knew and loved no longer exists. Its assets have been stripped by the corrupt and there is little left except lies and more corruption.
wookiemeister said:
captain_spalding said:
Anyway, there’s still a number of routes for attack toward the Sea of Azov. Maybe a little farther north than first planned, but still on the table.
Its not happening
Not yet.
Maybe it won’t happen.
But, maybe it will.
Like i say, the Russians have to try to cover every possibility, but the Ukrainians only have to prepare for one.
captain_spalding said:
wookiemeister said:
captain_spalding said:
Anyway, there’s still a number of routes for attack toward the Sea of Azov. Maybe a little farther north than first planned, but still on the table.
Its not happening
Not yet.
Maybe it won’t happen.
But, maybe it will.
Like i say, the Russians have to try to cover every possibility, but the Ukrainians only have to prepare for one.
They levelled a building full of mercenaries two weeks ago. NATO has started bringing in mercy from south America- plenty of them, they could absorb billions of dollars of russian weapons.
PermeateFree said:
wookiemeister said:
As i see it the russians will ramp up new tank production to about maybe 5000 tanks a year, they’ve said this will be a long conflict.I’ve heard some estimates saying they are pumping out anything up to 6 million artillery shells a year.
They are ramping up hypersonic missile production, I’d assume this might hit maybe 5000 or 10,000 a year – presumably as the war goes on in two years time you might expect hypersonic missile attacks on Australian infrastructure as Australia gets more involved in the war. Maybe they’d hit all the powerstations, handful of oil refineries, power networks, hit the supertankers bringing fuel to Australia. This will be fine the Aussie spirit will shine through – though the word Aussie will be cancelled of course.
Russia has just one tank factory churning out 20 tanks a month, with demand outstripping production by a factor of ten, says report
Russia has just one tank factory, which can produce around 20 new tanks every month.
Demand for tanks is now outstripping production by a factor of ten, according to The Economist.
Russia is losing around 150 tanks a month in Ukraine, and is becoming reliant on refurbished vehicles.
In the 1940s the Soviet Union was able to produce 1,000 tanks a month. Today, Russia can produce just 20, with a single factory struggling to keep pace with outsized demand caused by the war in Ukraine, according to The Economist.
The British publication reported that Russia now has just one tank factory, UralVagonZavod, a massive 1930s-built industrial complex in eastern Russia.
It may be one of the largest tank manufacturers in the world, with Fortune estimating that it has 30,000 employees, but each month it is only able to produce tanks in the double digits, The Economist said, citing liberal Russian media outlet Novaya Gazeta.
That’s nowhere near demand: one Western official told the publication that demand is outstripping supply by a factor of 10.
Russia is losing around 150 tanks a month in Ukraine, according to an analysis by open source intelligence platform Oryx. It has lost 1,779 tanks since February 2022, Oryx reported.
Tank production is harder than it was in the 1940s, when the Soviet Union was churning out vehicles, largely because modern-day tanks are more complex to build and far more sophisticated, according to The Economist.
But other factors are also involved.
A shortage of parts, particularly semiconductors, has hampered Russian production, The Economist reported.
And UralVagonZavod hasn’t been properly modernized because of financial mismanagement and significant debts, it said.
As a result, Russia is becoming increasingly reliant on restoring older tanks, which it has in the thousands in storage.
UralVagonZavod is refurbishing about eight old tanks a month, with three other repair plants in Russia rebuilding another 17 or so monthly, The Economist said. Two more plants are due to come online in the coming months, per the media outlet.
Russia may soon be able to resurrect around 90 tanks each month, in addition to the 20 new ones being built, but even this would fail to match its estimated losses.
https://news.yahoo.com/russia-just-one-tank-factory-122420611.html?fr=yhssrp_catchall
The Turks have been upgrading patton tanks I believe
I think the Israelis still use centurions (?)
There’s plenty of footage showing Ukrainian armour running into minefields, in a short time 8 vehicles get blown up.
There’s footage of a drone carrying an RPG almost flying into an open hatch of APC. explosion at that point would incapacitate the APC and kill most of the occupants
Senior Russian general in Ukraine says he was dismissed after criticizing lack of support for troops
From CNN’s Tim Lister and Uliana Pavlova
General Ivan Popov in an undated photo. Teoyaomiquu/Twitter
A high-profile Russian general in command of forces in occupied southern Ukraine says he has been dismissed from his post after accusing the defense ministry of betraying Russian soldiers by not providing sufficient support.
General Ivan Popov was the commander of the 58th Combined Arms Army, which has been involved in heavy fighting in the Zaporizhzhia region. He is one of the most senior officers involved in the Russian campaign in Ukraine.
In a voice note, Popov said that he raised questions about “the lack of counter-battery combat, the absence of artillery reconnaissance stations and the mass deaths and injuries of our brothers from enemy artillery. I also raised a number of other problems and expressed it all at the highest level frankly and extremely harshly.”
Popov said that the Minister of Defense Sergey Shoigu then dismissed him.
“As many commanders of divisional regiments said today, the servicemen of the armed forces of Ukraine could not break through our army from the front, our senior commander hit us from the rear, treacherously and vilely decapitating the army at the most difficult and tense moment,” he said.
Popov’s audio message was relayed by Andrey Gurulev, a member of the Russian parliament and a former Deputy Commander of the Southern Military District, on his Telegram channel.
The public resignation or dismissal of such a senior officer amid an open dispute over the conduct of the Russian campaign is unprecedented, according to analysts.
https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-07-12-23/h_bd7f938de72999bfbc3ab485fe88279c
Putin should have checked with the Powell Doctrine
dv said:
Senior Russian general in Ukraine says he was dismissed after criticizing lack of support for troops
From CNN’s Tim Lister and Uliana PavlovaGeneral Ivan Popov in an undated photo. Teoyaomiquu/Twitter
A high-profile Russian general in command of forces in occupied southern Ukraine says he has been dismissed from his post after accusing the defense ministry of betraying Russian soldiers by not providing sufficient support.General Ivan Popov was the commander of the 58th Combined Arms Army, which has been involved in heavy fighting in the Zaporizhzhia region. He is one of the most senior officers involved in the Russian campaign in Ukraine.
In a voice note, Popov said that he raised questions about “the lack of counter-battery combat, the absence of artillery reconnaissance stations and the mass deaths and injuries of our brothers from enemy artillery. I also raised a number of other problems and expressed it all at the highest level frankly and extremely harshly.”
Popov said that the Minister of Defense Sergey Shoigu then dismissed him.
“As many commanders of divisional regiments said today, the servicemen of the armed forces of Ukraine could not break through our army from the front, our senior commander hit us from the rear, treacherously and vilely decapitating the army at the most difficult and tense moment,” he said.
Popov’s audio message was relayed by Andrey Gurulev, a member of the Russian parliament and a former Deputy Commander of the Southern Military District, on his Telegram channel.The public resignation or dismissal of such a senior officer amid an open dispute over the conduct of the Russian campaign is unprecedented, according to analysts.
https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-07-12-23/h_bd7f938de72999bfbc3ab485fe88279c
Putin should have checked with the Powell Doctrine
Heh! Probably.
:)
wookiemeister said:
PermeateFree said:
wookiemeister said:
As i see it the russians will ramp up new tank production to about maybe 5000 tanks a year, they’ve said this will be a long conflict.I’ve heard some estimates saying they are pumping out anything up to 6 million artillery shells a year.
They are ramping up hypersonic missile production, I’d assume this might hit maybe 5000 or 10,000 a year – presumably as the war goes on in two years time you might expect hypersonic missile attacks on Australian infrastructure as Australia gets more involved in the war. Maybe they’d hit all the powerstations, handful of oil refineries, power networks, hit the supertankers bringing fuel to Australia. This will be fine the Aussie spirit will shine through – though the word Aussie will be cancelled of course.
Russia has just one tank factory churning out 20 tanks a month, with demand outstripping production by a factor of ten, says report
Russia has just one tank factory, which can produce around 20 new tanks every month.
Demand for tanks is now outstripping production by a factor of ten, according to The Economist.
Russia is losing around 150 tanks a month in Ukraine, and is becoming reliant on refurbished vehicles.
In the 1940s the Soviet Union was able to produce 1,000 tanks a month. Today, Russia can produce just 20, with a single factory struggling to keep pace with outsized demand caused by the war in Ukraine, according to The Economist.
The British publication reported that Russia now has just one tank factory, UralVagonZavod, a massive 1930s-built industrial complex in eastern Russia.
It may be one of the largest tank manufacturers in the world, with Fortune estimating that it has 30,000 employees, but each month it is only able to produce tanks in the double digits, The Economist said, citing liberal Russian media outlet Novaya Gazeta.
That’s nowhere near demand: one Western official told the publication that demand is outstripping supply by a factor of 10.
Russia is losing around 150 tanks a month in Ukraine, according to an analysis by open source intelligence platform Oryx. It has lost 1,779 tanks since February 2022, Oryx reported.
Tank production is harder than it was in the 1940s, when the Soviet Union was churning out vehicles, largely because modern-day tanks are more complex to build and far more sophisticated, according to The Economist.
But other factors are also involved.
A shortage of parts, particularly semiconductors, has hampered Russian production, The Economist reported.
And UralVagonZavod hasn’t been properly modernized because of financial mismanagement and significant debts, it said.
As a result, Russia is becoming increasingly reliant on restoring older tanks, which it has in the thousands in storage.
UralVagonZavod is refurbishing about eight old tanks a month, with three other repair plants in Russia rebuilding another 17 or so monthly, The Economist said. Two more plants are due to come online in the coming months, per the media outlet.
Russia may soon be able to resurrect around 90 tanks each month, in addition to the 20 new ones being built, but even this would fail to match its estimated losses.
https://news.yahoo.com/russia-just-one-tank-factory-122420611.html?fr=yhssrp_catchall
Even if that were true there are still thousands in storageThe Turks have been upgrading patton tanks I believe
I think the Israelis still use centurions (?)
WWII tanks are not suitable for modern warfare and are totally outgunned by the weapons of today. Still Russia does not care about the lives of its soldiers.
PermeateFree said:
wookiemeister said:Even if that were true there are still thousands in storage
The Turks have been upgrading patton tanks I believe
I think the Israelis still use centurions (?)
WWII tanks are not suitable for modern warfare and are totally outgunned by the weapons of today. Still Russia does not care about the lives of its soldiers.
It can depend on what you plan to use them for.
M47 Pattons would be hopeless as main battle tanks. But, if you can up-gun them, or refit them with e.g. turrets with a couple of 30mm cannon, then they could still be useful as infantry support tanks, anti-aircraft tanks, or even tank destroyers (M4 Shermans with the British 17 pdr gun were just about the only tank that Tigers and Panthers had to fear).
By comparison with modern tanks, they’re small and light, with good cross-country mobility, and might well make good reconnaissance vehicles.
Centurions would be adaptable to similar roles. WW2 tanks can still be useful in some situations, depending on where they’re used and against who they’re used. South Africa had the British WW2 design Comet tanks (best British design of WW2, if not the best Allied design) in service until the 1980s. IIRC, Iraq actually had some old Panzer IVs in service at the time of the first Gulf War. They were fine as second-line tanks in that region, until they came up against Abrams and Chieftains.
The Economy Must Grow ¡
captain_spalding said:
PermeateFree said:
wookiemeister said:Even if that were true there are still thousands in storage
The Turks have been upgrading patton tanks I believe
I think the Israelis still use centurions (?)
WWII tanks are not suitable for modern warfare and are totally outgunned by the weapons of today. Still Russia does not care about the lives of its soldiers.
It can depend on what you plan to use them for.
M47 Pattons would be hopeless as main battle tanks. But, if you can up-gun them, or refit them with e.g. turrets with a couple of 30mm cannon, then they could still be useful as infantry support tanks, anti-aircraft tanks, or even tank destroyers (M4 Shermans with the British 17 pdr gun were just about the only tank that Tigers and Panthers had to fear).
By comparison with modern tanks, they’re small and light, with good cross-country mobility, and might well make good reconnaissance vehicles.
Centurions would be adaptable to similar roles. WW2 tanks can still be useful in some situations, depending on where they’re used and against who they’re used. South Africa had the British WW2 design Comet tanks (best British design of WW2, if not the best Allied design) in service until the 1980s. IIRC, Iraq actually had some old Panzer IVs in service at the time of the first Gulf War. They were fine as second-line tanks in that region, until they came up against Abrams and Chieftains.
The old Russian tanks being sent to the front have not been up gunned and are needed simply to replace the loses of their modern tanks that are being destroyed far more quickly than they can be replaced.
PermeateFree said:
captain_spalding said:
PermeateFree said:WWII tanks are not suitable for modern warfare and are totally outgunned by the weapons of today. Still Russia does not care about the lives of its soldiers.
It can depend on what you plan to use them for.
M47 Pattons would be hopeless as main battle tanks. But, if you can up-gun them, or refit them with e.g. turrets with a couple of 30mm cannon, then they could still be useful as infantry support tanks, anti-aircraft tanks, or even tank destroyers (M4 Shermans with the British 17 pdr gun were just about the only tank that Tigers and Panthers had to fear).
By comparison with modern tanks, they’re small and light, with good cross-country mobility, and might well make good reconnaissance vehicles.
Centurions would be adaptable to similar roles. WW2 tanks can still be useful in some situations, depending on where they’re used and against who they’re used. South Africa had the British WW2 design Comet tanks (best British design of WW2, if not the best Allied design) in service until the 1980s. IIRC, Iraq actually had some old Panzer IVs in service at the time of the first Gulf War. They were fine as second-line tanks in that region, until they came up against Abrams and Chieftains.
The old Russian tanks being sent to the front have not been up gunned and are needed simply to replace the loses of their modern tanks that are being destroyed far more quickly than they can be replaced.
The Russians losses in WWII were huge and similarly equipped I imagine
captain_spalding said:
Centurions would be adaptable to similar roles.
I thought centurions went out with the Romans?
Woodie said:
captain_spalding said:Centurions would be adaptable to similar roles.
I thought centurions went out with the Romans?
Battlestar Galactica revived them
Cymek said:
The Russians losses in WWII were huge and similarly equipped I imagine
The losses were big, but the scale of the fight was big, too.
The T-34 was probably THE best Allied tank design of WW2.
It did get up-gunned a couple of times, and it really introduced the idea of sloped armour and minimal ‘shot-traps’ in the design in a big way.
It was fast, very mobile across country, and with broad-tread tracks, it could move around in winter landscapes where Panzers could not.
It so impressed the Germans that for a while there was talk of them making a direct copy of it, but they decided that it would be a bit humiliating, and that’s where the effort for developing the Panther came from, trying to incorporate T-34 ideas into a German design.
https://youtube.com/shorts/42VoGYq4Z0g?feature=share4
Turkey uses patton tanks
Centurions still being used
Israel: Gun tanks retired, many hulls converted to Nagmachon APCs, Nakpadon ARVs or Puma CEVs.
Jordan: Chassis re-used for the modern Temsah APC
South Africa: In service as the indigenously developed and upgraded Mk1A/B and Mk2 Olifant tank
wookiemeister said:
Centurions still being usedIsrael: Gun tanks retired, many hulls converted to Nagmachon APCs, Nakpadon ARVs or Puma CEVs.
Jordan: Chassis re-used for the modern Temsah APC
South Africa: In service as the indigenously developed and upgraded Mk1A/B and Mk2 Olifant tank
You are talking about upgraded old tanks, not what Russia is doing of just sending unmodified tanks from WWII direct to the battle zone. You should know with your Jewish background of the huge tank battles Israel had with Egypt and how the Israelis with their modern tanks destroyed the larger number of older Egyptian tanks with few loses to themselves. This is the difference of having modern tanks and old out of date ones.
Well it’s good to burn off the dry tinder, use up the junk, make space for new stuff.
SCIENCE said:
Well it’s good to burn off the dry tinder, use up the junk, make space for new stuff.
I see another russian commander got whacked. posted his morning runs on strava.
Bushmasters end up completely burnt out
I was looking one over recently the walls seem.to be really thin, a KORNET would easily punch through and incinerate everything inside.
If you’ve been out there on the net you see the back doors open bodies laying around, they didn’t stand a chance.
ChrispenEvan said:
I see another russian commander got whacked. posted his morning runs on strava.
They’ll have another one waiting in the wings to take over
In this case, the tanks refered to, the M48 Patton tanks are held in reserve. Turkey also has American M60 and German Leopard II tanks. In addition to this they make their own modern tanks based on a design from South Korea. They are definitely not using M48s as frontline main battle tanks, even though they have a few in reaserve and maybe even some for training porpoises.
ChrispenEvan said:
I see another russian commander got whacked. posted his morning runs on strava.
Well it’s good to burn off the dry tinder, use up the junk, make space for new stuff.
roughbarked said:
Ex-Google CEO says he is shocked Russia excels at countering Ukrainian drones
Well they would say that about Microsoft products that spread shit wouldn’t they ¿
SCIENCE said:
roughbarked said:
Ex-Google CEO says he is shocked Russia excels at countering Ukrainian drones
Well they would say that about Microsoft products that spread shit wouldn’t they ¿
If you say so.
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
You know, it is starting to look like the whole mutiny thing was staged to allow time to move troops to different attacking positions.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-06/wagner-group-yevgeny-prigozhin-belarus-russia/102572646
Wouldn’t put it past them. A sort-of-plausible excuse to deploy forces demonstrably hostile to Ukraine, and among Russia’s most effective, in a technically ‘neutral’ country.
It might also have been an attempt to get the Ukrainians to jump the gun on making a thrust in strength. Present a picture of an enemy in disarray and disagreement, forces moving away from the combat zone, complaints about poor supply, shortages, poor support.
Tempt the Ukrainians into trying to take advantage of it, and reveal any penetration forces that they may have assembled.
This was one of our initial thoughts, seemed a fairly orderly process, and now
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-11/prigozhin-putin-met-after-mutiny-kremlin/102585348
The confirmation of a face-to-face meeting with Mr Putin, who had branded Mr Prigozhin a backstabbing traitor, adds a new twist to the uncertainty surrounding the mercenary chief.
imagine that.
Now look at this totally not deepfaked
image of “Russian military Chief of Staff General Valery Gerasimov appeared in a video for the first time since the rebellion.(Russian defence ministy via AP)”.
As you were¡
Surprise, surprise…
Told you the digging in was going to make it an absolute fucking pain to shift.
Takes time for honesty from the bigname commentators eh.
SCIENCE said:
SCIENCE said:
Witty Rejoinder said:
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
You know, it is starting to look like the whole mutiny thing was staged to allow time to move troops to different attacking positions.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-06/wagner-group-yevgeny-prigozhin-belarus-russia/102572646
Wouldn’t put it past them. A sort-of-plausible excuse to deploy forces demonstrably hostile to Ukraine, and among Russia’s most effective, in a technically ‘neutral’ country.
It might also have been an attempt to get the Ukrainians to jump the gun on making a thrust in strength. Present a picture of an enemy in disarray and disagreement, forces moving away from the combat zone, complaints about poor supply, shortages, poor support.
Tempt the Ukrainians into trying to take advantage of it, and reveal any penetration forces that they may have assembled.
This was one of our initial thoughts, seemed a fairly orderly process, and now
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-07-11/prigozhin-putin-met-after-mutiny-kremlin/102585348
The confirmation of a face-to-face meeting with Mr Putin, who had branded Mr Prigozhin a backstabbing traitor, adds a new twist to the uncertainty surrounding the mercenary chief.
imagine that.
Now look at this totally not deepfaked
image of “Russian military Chief of Staff General Valery Gerasimov appeared in a video for the first time since the rebellion.(Russian defence ministy via AP)”.
Weird:
…
Putin met with Wagner chief Prigozhin after mutiny, Kremlin says
By Mary Ilyushina, Robyn Dixon and Natalia Abbakumova
Updated July 10, 2023 at 4:18 p.m. EDT|Published July 10, 2023 at 7:48 a.m. EDTRussian President Vladimir Putin met with Wagner Group mercenary boss Yevgeniy Prigozhin and 35 of his commanders on June 29 in Moscow, five days after Prigozhin launched his brief mutiny to oust the country’s top military officials, whom Prigozhin said had botched the invasion of Ukraine.
The meeting was held shortly after Putin vowed to mete out “harsh” punishment against Wagner’s leaders as the Russian president grappled with the greatest challenge of his tenure. Russian elites have criticized Putin’s decision to drop insurgency charges against Prigozhin and the mercenaries after Wagner shot down several Russian aircraft and killed Russian troops.
In a three-hour meeting, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said, Putin “gave his assessment” of the private military company’s fighting record in Ukraine as well as its actions on the day of the mutiny.
“The president listened to the commanders’ explanations and offered them options for further employment options and combat application,” Peskov told reporters in a conference call Monday.
“The commanders presented their version of what had happened,” he said. “They emphasized that they were staunch supporters and soldiers of the leader and supreme commander in chief and said they were ready to continue fighting for the motherland.”
When Peskov was asked June 29 about Prigozhin’s whereabouts, he said he had no information. Putin made a brief appearance that day at a government forum as the Kremlin sought to promote the impression that Russian society was “consolidating” around the president, and to boost the Russian leader’s popularity with some staged events.
Prigozhin returned to Russia last week, according to Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko, a Putin ally. A businessman in St. Petersburg, Prigozhin’s hometown, said the Wagner leader had returned to reclaim money and weapons seized by the Russian government.
The future of his mercenary group remained unclear. The June 29 meeting suggests the details of the deal between Prigozhin and Putin, which was brokered by Lukashenko, were still being hammered out.
Ultimately, the Wagner chief agreed to stop the “March of Justice,” his armed advance on Moscow, and Putin agreed to not punish him or his fighters.
Prigozhin has said his conflict with Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, and particularly Shoigu’s plan to absorb Wagner into the regular army, was the catalyst for the rebellion.
Putin said Wagner fighters could sign contracts with the defense ministry, relocate to Belarus, or disband and go home. Satellite imagery revealed a camp being built in Belarus, but neither Wagner nor Lukashenko confirmed it would serve as a new base for the mercenaries.
Mercenary service is technically illegal in Russia, but Wagner started taking part in the war a few months after Russia invaded Ukraine in February 2022. The mercenary group is a key assault force, responsible for the few battlefield wins Russia has achieved in recent months.
Russia’s top military commander in the war, another Prigozhin target, reemerged Monday after two weeks of silence, in a video posted by the defense ministry. The video shows Gen. Valery Gerasimov, chief of Russia’s general staff, receiving battlefield updates and ordering steps to identify Ukrainian missile launch sites and bolster the country’s protection against air attacks. It was unclear when the video was recorded.
Prigozhin has repeatedly accused Gerasimov and Shoigu of denying ammunition to his mercenaries, training their own soldiers poorly and failing in Ukraine.
Since the rebellion, Kremlin propagandists have been striving to portray Putin as a wise leader who averted civil war in a single day. But Wagner’s lightning advance to within 125 miles of Moscow, and its capture, apparently unopposed, of cities en route, raised questions about Russia’s military preparedness — and who in Russian military and security services knew about the rebellion in advance but did nothing to warn authorities.
Gen. Sergei Surovikin, under scrutiny for his close relations with Prigozhin, was not present at Gerasimov’s meeting. Russian independent media have speculated that he has been detained. Alexei Venediktov, the longtime editor in chief of Echo of Moscow radio, which was forced to close in Russia, said Monday that Surovikin did not call or send a message to his wife on her birthday, July 3, nor did he contact his eldest daughter on Monday, her birthday.
Surovikin is popular among Russian military bloggers and hard-liners who have been criticizing the top brass. Putin’s apparent decision to keep Shoigu and Gerasimov in their jobs risks deepening divisions in the military and undermining Russian military morale as Ukraine continues to press its counteroffensive to expel the invaders.
The June 29 meeting underscores Prigozhin’s continuing leverage and deep-rooted connections in government, and also his broader popularity, particularly among pro-war Russian nationalists who have been pressing for tougher action against Ukraine.
Igor Girkin, a veteran of the 2014 Russian campaign in Ukraine and now a nationalist critic of the Kremlin, ridiculed Putin’s decision to meet with Prigozhin.
“Will there be a photo of 35 ‘musicians’ swindling and making the fool out of the president too?” he asked in his Telegram blog, using a nickname for Wagner fighters. “And will Putin receive the parents and widows of the killed pilots, or ‘that’s a different story?’”
Pro-Kremlin commentators said Putin was attempting “to understand the political origins of the crisis” and prevent future disturbances.
“It is also important to affirm Wagner fighters’ loyalty — to Russia, not Prigozhin,” said political consultant Sergei Markov. “Prigozhin himself, apparently, presented himself negatively, because after this meeting there was a strong information attack on him.”
Prigozhin his emerged as an unlikely truth-teller in Russia, willing to talk openly about the heavy casualties and the defense ministry’s failures. In the week before the rebellion, his approval rating reached 58 percent, according to independent opinion pollsters Levada Center.
The Kremlin has moved aggressively to destroy Prigozhin’s popularity. Over the weekend, the Russian state television flagship news show “Vesti Nedeli” broadcast a piece claiming that “opportunist Prigozhin” tried to seize lucrative real estate in his hometown of St. Petersburg to advance his business interests.
Other reports on state media portrayed him as a greedy bandit with a criminal past motivated by money, and asked whether he embezzled some of the billions of dollars he received in government contracts to bankroll the sprawling empire from which the Kremlin is now struggling to untangle itself.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/10/russia-wagner-putin-prigozhin-meeting/ ?
Understandable¡
As you were¡
Surprise, surprise…
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-02/poland-sends-troops-to-belarus-border/102677274
The ironing board may be necessary.
Since the start of the war, Russia has used artillery and missiles to hit targets before striking the exact same spot about 30 minutes later, often hitting emergency teams.
The tactic is called a “double tap” in military jargon.
Russians used the same method in Syria’s civil war.
Ukraine officials accuse Russia of planning consecutive missile strikes to injure rescuers
roughbarked said:
Since the start of the war, Russia has used artillery and missiles to hit targets before striking the exact same spot about 30 minutes later, often hitting emergency teams.
The tactic is called a “double tap” in military jargon.
Russians used the same method in Syria’s civil war.
Ukraine officials accuse Russia of planning consecutive missile strikes to injure rescuers
The tactic is called a “double tap” in military jargon.
So it’s a known and common method.
SCIENCE said:
roughbarked said:
Since the start of the war, Russia has used artillery and missiles to hit targets before striking the exact same spot about 30 minutes later, often hitting emergency teams.
The tactic is called a “double tap” in military jargon.
Russians used the same method in Syria’s civil war.
Ukraine officials accuse Russia of planning consecutive missile strikes to injure rescuers
The tactic is called a “double tap” in military jargon.
So it’s a known and common method.
Oh wait fuck it’s illegal
https://lawblogs.uc.edu/ihrlr/2022/11/29/secret-war-u-s-drone-strikes-in-pakistan/
our bad.
The U.S. has also failed its duty to differentiate between combatants and civilians through its use of double tap strikes. A double tap strike is the launching of a set of drone strikes with one strike being deliberately delayed. The second-strike targets rescuers and first responders who come to help those injured by the first strike. As a result, rescuers hesitate to assist those injured by a strike due to the fear of a second attack. Double tap strikes therefore violate protections for medical and humanitarian workers in addition to constituting a possible war crime, as described by the UN. Drone strikes not only instill a constant fear within a community but also violate individual human rights.
Luckily accountability is held to the winners then¡
SCIENCE said:
SCIENCE said:
roughbarked said:
Since the start of the war, Russia has used artillery and missiles to hit targets before striking the exact same spot about 30 minutes later, often hitting emergency teams.
The tactic is called a “double tap” in military jargon.
Russians used the same method in Syria’s civil war.
Ukraine officials accuse Russia of planning consecutive missile strikes to injure rescuers
The tactic is called a “double tap” in military jargon.
So it’s a known and common method.
Oh wait fuck it’s illegal
https://lawblogs.uc.edu/ihrlr/2022/11/29/secret-war-u-s-drone-strikes-in-pakistan/
our bad.
The U.S. has also failed its duty to differentiate between combatants and civilians through its use of double tap strikes. A double tap strike is the launching of a set of drone strikes with one strike being deliberately delayed. The second-strike targets rescuers and first responders who come to help those injured by the first strike. As a result, rescuers hesitate to assist those injured by a strike due to the fear of a second attack. Double tap strikes therefore violate protections for medical and humanitarian workers in addition to constituting a possible war crime, as described by the UN. Drone strikes not only instill a constant fear within a community but also violate individual human rights.
Luckily accountability is held to the winners then¡
True dat
Charity donations destined for 600 Ukrainian families destroyed in drone strike
A Russian drone strike destroys humanitarian aid supplies in the western Ukranian city of Lviv, according to officials.
Australian Slinger, drone killer
A replica cannon mounted on the back of a pick-up truck tracks its target, part of a weapons system that launches “hard kill” strikes to blow drones out of the sky.
It is called Slinger and it is designed to counter drones at a cost that countries like Ukraine can afford.
The Ukranians may well need air support but do they really want to lose valuable men in such risky helicopters?
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/russia-puts-estonian-prime-minister-kaja-kallas-on-wanted-list/ar-BB1id751?ocid=socialshare&pc=U531&cvid=9c6c4adf21b64843986eb37f5154ef37&ei=66
Moscow has put the Estonian prime minister, Kaja Kallas, and other Baltic states officials on a wanted list, as Tallinn warns of an imminent Russian military buildup along its border.
The Russian foreign ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova said the Estonian state secretary, Taimar Peterkop, the Lithuanian culture minister, Simonas Kairys, and Kallas were accused of “destroying monuments to Soviet soldiers”, a reference to the removal of Soviet-era second world war memorials
“This is only the start,” Zakharova wrote on her Telegram channel. “Crimes against the memory of the world’s liberators from nazism and fascism must be prosecuted.” Russian authorities have not revealed the exact charges against the three.
Moscow has placed senior Ukrainian officials and generals on its wanted list since the start of the war, but Kallas is the first known head of government to be sought by Moscow.
The Estonian prime minister has been one of the strongest supporters of Ukraine, leading efforts to increase military assistance to Kyiv and tighten sanctions against Russia.
Kallas called Russia’s move “nothing surprising”. She wrote on X: “The Kremlin now hopes this move will help to silence me and others – but it won’t. The opposite. I will continue my strong support to Ukraine. I will continue to stand for increasing Europe’s defence.”
Russia puts Estonian PM on wanted list
Moscow’s decision to add Kallas to its wanted list will further increase tension in the region at a time when many western capitals have sounded the alarm over a growing military threat from Russia.
When asked by reporters about Kallas on Tuesday, Vladimir Putin’s spokesperson, Dmitry Peskov, said the Estonian leader “took hostile acts against our country and historical memory”.
The removal of Soviet-era monuments has been a delicate issue in Estonia, a former Soviet republic from 1944 until 1991 where nearly a quarter of the population of 1.3 million people are ethnic Russians.
The process has accelerated since Russian troops invaded Ukraine, with Kallas pledging to remove all communist monuments in public spaces. “We have decided … Soviet monuments must be removed from public spaces and we will do it as quickly as possible,” Kallas said in the summer of 2022 when officials removed a Soviet tank memorial from Narva, a largely Russian-speaking city close to the Russian border.
Estonia has been anxious to avoid some of the unrest it faced in 2007 after it removed a statue in Tallinn known as the Bronze Soldier, which led to two nights of rioting and looting, followed by a major cyber-attack that Estonian officials blamed on Russia.
The country has also moved to counter pro-Russian narratives about the war in Ukraine by banning from cable television four Russian channels, a major source of news for many older ethnic Russians.
Tensions remain high, and on Tuesday Estonia’s foreign intelligence service warned that Russia intended to double the number of its troops stationed along its border with the Baltic states and Finland as part of preparations for a potential military conflict with Nato within the next 10 years.
Kaupo Rosin, the director general of the Estonian service, told reporters before publication of his agency’s annual report: “Russia has chosen a path which is a long-term confrontation … and the Kremlin is probably anticipating a possible conflict with Nato within the next decade or so.
“We will highly likely see an increase of manpower, about doubling perhaps. We will see an increase in armed personnel carriers, tanks, artillery systems over the coming years.”
Rosin said a military attack by Russia was “highly unlikely” in the short term, partly because Russia had to keep troops in Ukraine, but he called on Europe to get prepared by rearming.
“If we are not prepared, the likelihood would be much higher than without any preparation,” Rosin added.
In an interview with the conservative journalist Tucker Carlson last week, Putin dismissed western warnings, saying his country had “no interest in Poland, Latvia or anywhere else”.
Russia has put several dozen Baltic politicians of various levels on the wanted list, including the former Latvian interior minister Marija Golubeva. Latvia has similarly announced plans to remove its Soviet memorials from public spaces, and it drew Moscow’s ire last year when it demolished a nearly 80-metre obelisk erected during the Soviet rule of Latvia.
All three Baltic states – Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania – had already expelled Russian diplomats from their countries amid tensions over the conflict in Ukraine. Relations with Moscow have remained tense since they gained independence during the collapse of the Soviet Union, which they have viewed as an occupying power.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/video/news/estonia-says-russia-is-preparing-for-a-military-confrontation-with-the-west-english-news-n18v/vi-BB1idVqw?ocid=socialshare&t=35
video
Pope Francis has said in an interview that Ukraine should have what he called the “courage of the white flag” to end the war with Russia.
?
Surrender to Russia and allow them to swallow up Ukraine?
What is he thinking?
Is this like when Hitler courted the Vatican?
roughbarked said:
Pope Francis has said in an interview that Ukraine should have what he called the “courage of the white flag” to end the war with Russia.
? Surrender to Russia and allow them to swallow up Ukraine?
What is he thinking?
Is this like when Hitler courted the Vatican?
He should be saying Russia should withdraw and return all pows and those kidnapped.
Tau.Neutrino said:
roughbarked said:
Pope Francis has said in an interview that Ukraine should have what he called the “courage of the white flag” to end the war with Russia.
? Surrender to Russia and allow them to swallow up Ukraine?
What is he thinking?
Is this like when Hitler courted the Vatican?He should be saying Russia should withdraw and return all pows and those kidnapped.
How many Russians have died Pope Francis?
How many Ukrainians have died Pope Francis?
Why are you siding with the Russians Pope Francis?
Who’s talking about escalation now?
So invading another country isn’t a direct escalation?
roughbarked said:
Who’s talking about escalation now?
So invading another country isn’t a direct escalation?
Once you get high you can’t get higher.
SCIENCE said:
roughbarked said:
Who’s talking about escalation now?
So invading another country isn’t a direct escalation?
Once you get high you can’t get higher.
Yes. You can save the rest of the joint for several later-ons.
roughbarked said:
David Cameron says he has no objection to Ukraine using weapons inside Russia, Kremlin calls it a direct escalationWho’s talking about escalation now?
So invading another country isn’t a direct escalation?
If the Russians are using weapons or ammunition made in China, or N. Korea, or Iran (like, drones), then what’s sauce for the goose…
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
Who’s talking about escalation now?
So invading another country isn’t a direct escalation?
If the Russians are using weapons or ammunition made in China, or N. Korea, or Iran (like, drones), then what’s sauce for the goose…
$$$
Sell drones to both sides¡
$$$
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
Who’s talking about escalation now?
So invading another country isn’t a direct escalation?
If the Russians are using weapons or ammunition made in China, or N. Korea, or Iran (like, drones), then what’s sauce for the goose…
$$$
Sell drones to both sides¡
$$$
That is what they did in the world wars..
roughbarked said:
SCIENCE said:captain_spalding said:
If the Russians are using weapons or ammunition made in China, or N. Korea, or Iran (like, drones), then what’s sauce for the goose…
$$$
Sell drones to both sides¡
$$$
That is what they did in the world wars..
Tamb said:
roughbarked said:
SCIENCE said:$$$
Sell drones to both sides¡
$$$
That is what they did in the world wars..
Pig Iron Bob comes to mind.
That’s how he got his name.
roughbarked said:
SCIENCE said:captain_spalding said:
If the Russians are using weapons or ammunition made in China, or N. Korea, or Iran (like, drones), then what’s sauce for the goose…
$$$
Sell drones to both sides¡
$$$
That is what they did in the world wars..
Ford Motors made squillions from the US government during WW2.
Ford also collected payments from their factories in Germany, making vehicles for the Nazi war effort, right throughout WW2, as the payments were faithfully remitted to them via Switzerland.
After the war, they also successfully sued the US government for damages caused by Allied bombing of those same factories in Germany.
Win/win/win.
roughbarked said:
Tamb said:
roughbarked said:That is what they did in the world wars..
Pig Iron Bob comes to mind.That’s how he got his name.
Tamb said:
roughbarked said:
Tamb said:Pig Iron Bob comes to mind.
That’s how he got his name.
Indeed.
The Japanese were good citizens and recycled some of it back to us.
Great recyclers. They dumped it all over the place.
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
SCIENCE said:
$$$
Sell drones to both sides¡
$$$
That is what they did in the world wars..
Ford Motors made squillions from the US government during WW2.
Ford also collected payments from their factories in Germany, making vehicles for the Nazi war effort, right throughout WW2, as the payments were faithfully remitted to them via Switzerland.
After the war, they also successfully sued the US government for damages caused by Allied bombing of those same factories in Germany.
Win/win/win.
So what we’re saying is that it’s in the interests of the USSA and the PROC to keep their proxy wars socially outsourced and economically in supply¿
SCIENCE said:
captain_spalding said:
roughbarked said:
That is what they did in the world wars..
Ford Motors made squillions from the US government during WW2.
Ford also collected payments from their factories in Germany, making vehicles for the Nazi war effort, right throughout WW2, as the payments were faithfully remitted to them via Switzerland.
After the war, they also successfully sued the US government for damages caused by Allied bombing of those same factories in Germany.
Win/win/win.
So what we’re saying is that it’s in the interests of the USSA and the PROC to keep their proxy wars socially outsourced and economically in supply¿
I’ve been saying that for decades.
A Ukranian pilot has died after the F-16 fighter jet he was flying crashed.
Pilot Oleksii Mes was repelling a Russian missile attack when he crashed.
Link
roughbarked said:
A Ukranian pilot has died after the F-16 fighter jet he was flying crashed.Pilot Oleksii Mes was repelling a Russian missile attack when he crashed.
Link
The F-16s are 30+ years old. The pilots are newly trained.
party_pants said:
roughbarked said:
A Ukranian pilot has died after the F-16 fighter jet he was flying crashed.Pilot Oleksii Mes was repelling a Russian missile attack when he crashed.
Link
The F-16s are 30+ years old. The pilots are newly trained.
Yeah.
US charges Russian intelligence officers
As if they are ever going to stand before a court.
Russian troops have been advancing on the region’s industrial hub Pokrovsk for months and Ukraine has ordered the mandatory evacuation of children from the city.
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Russia’s Defence Ministry said in a briefing published on Telegram on Saturday that its forces had taken a village in eastern Ukraine’s Donetsk region.
The village, Kalynove, has a population of around 200 people, according to Ukraine’s 2001 census.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-07/russia-seizes-village-in-donetsk-region-advance/104324340