Date: 18/01/2023 04:02:35
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1982569
Subject: Does evolution ever go backward?

In regressive evolution, organisms lose complex features and can appear to evolve “in reverse.” But evolution doesn’t retrace its steps, experts said.


In the Devonian period, fish evolved into amphibians, which, after millions of years, evolved into four-legged terrestrial animals. But can evolution ever go backward?

Evolution has produced stunningly complex features, from neuron-studded octopus arms to the mammalian ear. Can evolution ever go “backward,” though, reverting complex creatures to previous, simpler forms?

In so-called regressive evolution, organisms can lose complex features and thus appear to have evolved “back” into simpler forms. But evolution doesn’t really go backward in the sense of retracing evolutionary steps, experts say.

“The chances that the same tape would be … reversed in the same way is highly improbable,” William R. Jeffery(opens in new tab), a biologist at the University of Maryland, told Live Science.

Regressive evolution involves the loss of previously evolved forms of complexity, Beth Okamura(opens in new tab), a life sciences researcher at the Natural History Museum in London, told Live Science. An extreme example comes from the myxozoans, parasites with very simple anatomies — no mouths, nervous systems or guts — and very small genomes. The simplest type “are essentially single cells,” Okamura said.

Long classified as single-celled protozoans, myxozoans eventually revealed themselves to be highly regressed animals, Okamura said. They evolved from cnidarians, a group that includes jellyfish, losing many features no longer needed in a parasitic lifestyle.

Thus, myxozoans may seem, at least morphologically, to have returned to a previous evolutionary stage, Okamura said. “They’re sort of converging on single-celled organisms,” she said.


Blind cave fish across the world have lost their eyes, as they have no need to see in the cave’s dark waters.

Still, the evolutionary process doesn’t retrace its steps in regressive evolution, Jeffery said. Cave-dwelling creatures also frequently undergo regressive evolution, losing complex features, like eyes, that are not needed in dark environments. But eye loss in cave fish, for example, doesn’t mean an exact return to a primordial ancestor without these organs, Jeffery said. Instead, processes that previously produced the eye stop partway through, leaving a vestigial eye overgrown with skin.

“Things can look like they’re going into reverse,” Jeffery said. “But the eye didn’t go in reverse. It just stopped going forward.”

Additionally, losses in complexity may accompany less-obvious increases in complexity, such as the biochemistries parasites use to get inside hosts, Okamura said. “It’s very easy for people … to think of evolution in terms of what you see … what the morphological features are,” she said. “But there are also lots of other features that we don’t see at the physiological and the biochemical level.”

In cave fish, lost eyes may similarly obscure alternative complexity. Organs responsive to vibrations appear in great quantities in these fish, providing a way to sense in dark environments. And in the already-overstuffed head, these organs found available real estate in the fish’s empty eye sockets, Jeffery said.

Part of the reason evolution doesn’t retrace its steps is that adaptations lead to other changes, Brian Golding(opens in new tab), a biologist at McMaster University in Ontario, told Live Science. That makes simply dialing back a specific change extremely complicated.

“If you’ve made a change … you’re going to fine-tune that adaptation, and that adaptation will interact with other genes,” Golding said. “Now, if you reverse that one change, all of the other genes are still going to have to be changed” to reverse evolution.

In cave fish, for example, the original development of an eye may have come with changes not only to proteins needed for eyes but also to skull structures of an eye socket. A mutation affecting an eye protein wouldn’t cause an organism to revert to one without the socket.

Finally, experts cautioned that the term “backward evolution” may imply, misleadingly, that evolution has a goal of creating more complex forms. However, evolution merely favors features that make an organism more fit for a particular environment, Okamura said.

In this way, regressive evolution is just evolution as usual. Losing complexity may make a parasite or cave dweller better adapted to its new environment — for example, by eliminating the energy costs of making a complex organ, Jeffery said.

“Evolution is always progressive in that it’s selecting for features that improve the fitness of the individuals in which that variation is being expressed,” Okamura said.

https://www.livescience.com/regressive-backward-evolution

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 05:31:53
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1982582
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

yes

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 05:49:44
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1982583
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

SCIENCE said:


yes

Example?

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 07:31:55
From: wookiemeister
ID: 1982590
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

Flightless birds

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 08:10:20
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1982594
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

PermeateFree said:

SCIENCE said:

yes

Example?

infectious paralysis

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 08:32:21
From: captain_spalding
ID: 1982597
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

‘Does evolution ever go backward?’

You do read the news reports from the United States, i presume?

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 08:36:00
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1982599
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

captain_spalding said:

‘Does evolution ever go backward?’

You do read the news reports from the United States, i presume?

That’s not evolution, that’s intellig… uh well, some kind of design.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 11:05:32
From: Cymek
ID: 1982645
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

Republicans are surely a prime example

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 11:16:59
From: transition
ID: 1982651
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

not backwards, sure as time doesn’t go backward, but reversion if you will, probably could be said so

my read of the OP had me wondering if progression as used was a word shift, perhaps not very helpful, had hints of replicator religion about it

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 11:18:29
From: transition
ID: 1982652
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

transition said:


not backwards, sure as time doesn’t go backward, but reversion if you will, probably could be said so

my read of the OP had me wondering if progression as used was a word shift, perhaps not very helpful, had hints of replicator religion about it

or progressive it says, the word used

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 11:22:23
From: roughbarked
ID: 1982656
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

Cymek said:


Republicans are surely a prime example

More an example of a blind alley in the evolution of humans.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 11:44:15
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1982659
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

transition said:


transition said:

not backwards, sure as time doesn’t go backward, but reversion if you will, probably could be said so

my read of the OP had me wondering if progression as used was a word shift, perhaps not very helpful, had hints of replicator religion about it

or progressive it says, the word used

They’re just stating the obvious, that evolution always progresses from the present arrangement of the organism and its ongoing interaction with the environment.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 11:45:31
From: Bubblecar
ID: 1982661
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

Bubblecar said:


transition said:

transition said:

not backwards, sure as time doesn’t go backward, but reversion if you will, probably could be said so

my read of the OP had me wondering if progression as used was a word shift, perhaps not very helpful, had hints of replicator religion about it

or progressive it says, the word used

They’re just stating the obvious, that evolution always progresses from the present arrangement of the organism and its ongoing interaction with the environment.

…if you don’t like “progresses” in that sentence, replace it with “proceeds” – same meaning intended :)

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 12:01:11
From: ms spock
ID: 1982670
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

roughbarked said:


Cymek said:

Republicans are surely a prime example

More an example of a blind alley in the evolution of humans.

It is truly bizarre what they are doing. Some of it is just crazy. Some of them definitely now better. It’s like they are in a cult or something.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 13:00:49
From: transition
ID: 1982731
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

Bubblecar said:


transition said:

transition said:

not backwards, sure as time doesn’t go backward, but reversion if you will, probably could be said so

my read of the OP had me wondering if progression as used was a word shift, perhaps not very helpful, had hints of replicator religion about it

or progressive it says, the word used

They’re just stating the obvious, that evolution always progresses from the present arrangement of the organism and its ongoing interaction with the environment.

this below came to mind while reading the OP, and various other things
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candida_albicans

I pondered for a moment the possibility space of what could happen (evolve, or devolve), what was possible, and that there always exists limitations on what is possible or likely, that there are only a certain number of ways to do things

it also and crossed my mind that group level fitness optimization is unlikely to be the same as individual fitness maximization

and while, it further occurred to me that mental state transitions to sleep nightly might be seen as a cyclic system reversion

briefly, my immediate thoughts

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 13:03:10
From: roughbarked
ID: 1982734
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

transition said:


Bubblecar said:

transition said:

or progressive it says, the word used

They’re just stating the obvious, that evolution always progresses from the present arrangement of the organism and its ongoing interaction with the environment.

this below came to mind while reading the OP, and various other things
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candida_albicans

I pondered for a moment the possibility space of what could happen (evolve, or devolve), what was possible, and that there always exists limitations on what is possible or likely, that there are only a certain number of ways to do things

it also and crossed my mind that group level fitness optimization is unlikely to be the same as individual fitness maximization

and while, it further occurred to me that mental state transitions to sleep nightly might be seen as a cyclic system reversion

briefly, my immediate thoughts

Your brain goes off like a string of tomthumbs.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 13:05:27
From: transition
ID: 1982735
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

roughbarked said:


transition said:

Bubblecar said:

They’re just stating the obvious, that evolution always progresses from the present arrangement of the organism and its ongoing interaction with the environment.

this below came to mind while reading the OP, and various other things
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candida_albicans

I pondered for a moment the possibility space of what could happen (evolve, or devolve), what was possible, and that there always exists limitations on what is possible or likely, that there are only a certain number of ways to do things

it also and crossed my mind that group level fitness optimization is unlikely to be the same as individual fitness maximization

and while, it further occurred to me that mental state transitions to sleep nightly might be seen as a cyclic system reversion

briefly, my immediate thoughts

Your brain goes off like a string of tomthumbs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candida_albicans

that’s a good read^, read it quite a way back now

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 13:07:00
From: SCIENCE
ID: 1982736
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

c’m‘on surely yous’ve all heard of victor delta papa victor romeo echo version ellipsis

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 13:09:26
From: Tamb
ID: 1982739
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

SCIENCE said:


c’m‘on surely yous’ve all heard of victor delta papa victor romeo echo version ellipsis

It sometimes goes in a false direction. The organism fairly quickly dies out.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 13:25:30
From: ms spock
ID: 1982752
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

roughbarked said:


transition said:

Bubblecar said:

They’re just stating the obvious, that evolution always progresses from the present arrangement of the organism and its ongoing interaction with the environment.

this below came to mind while reading the OP, and various other things
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candida_albicans

I pondered for a moment the possibility space of what could happen (evolve, or devolve), what was possible, and that there always exists limitations on what is possible or likely, that there are only a certain number of ways to do things

it also and crossed my mind that group level fitness optimization is unlikely to be the same as individual fitness maximization

and while, it further occurred to me that mental state transitions to sleep nightly might be seen as a cyclic system reversion

briefly, my immediate thoughts

Your brain goes off like a string of tomthumbs.

I remember Tom Thumbs!

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 13:26:15
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 1982753
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

There are two parts of this.

Phenotype regression.
Genotype regression.

We see phenotype regression quite often. Here are some examples:

We see genotype regression sometimes. My first thought is colour-blindness in humans.
My second thought is genetic deletions – where genetic material that has previously evolved is irrevocably lost.

Keep in mind the difference between regression and reversion.

The comment in the OP about genetic reversion being exceedingly rare is often true – from a single base substitution point of view – but not always.
Certain genetic mutations happen in exactly the same way multiple times. Often across multiple species and in one species across hundreds of thousands of years. Some I’m particularly thinking of here are certain types of dwarfism, certain types of albinism, certain types of cleft palette.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 14:55:00
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1982816
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

Evolution is governed by the conditions of the environment and the reaction of an organism to it, and hence to enable its survival or adversely cause its demise. If physical attributes decline or disappear is because they are no longer needed for survival. This is not evolution going backwards but going forward and adapting to its new environment.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 16:22:42
From: transition
ID: 1982877
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

PermeateFree said:


Evolution is governed by the conditions of the environment and the reaction of an organism to it, and hence to enable its survival or adversely cause its demise. If physical attributes decline or disappear is because they are no longer needed for survival. This is not evolution going backwards but going forward and adapting to its new environment.

evolution’s a bunch of accidents, accidents that get tested

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 16:33:33
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1982881
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

transition said:


PermeateFree said:

Evolution is governed by the conditions of the environment and the reaction of an organism to it, and hence to enable its survival or adversely cause its demise. If physical attributes decline or disappear is because they are no longer needed for survival. This is not evolution going backwards but going forward and adapting to its new environment.

evolution’s a bunch of accidents, accidents that get tested

Only if you consider environmental change an accident. Mutations happen via genetic errors that can have an immediate effect leading to a new species or conversely highly disadvantaged leading to death. However, most mutations have little to no immediate effect, but if the environment changes it may then come into prominence to help in the species survival.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 16:37:45
From: Cymek
ID: 1982883
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

transition said:


PermeateFree said:

Evolution is governed by the conditions of the environment and the reaction of an organism to it, and hence to enable its survival or adversely cause its demise. If physical attributes decline or disappear is because they are no longer needed for survival. This is not evolution going backwards but going forward and adapting to its new environment.

evolution’s a bunch of accidents, accidents that get tested

We believe so anyway
Not something we can really monitor with our short human lifespans, not in any detail anyway.
Would be interesting to be immortal and control time to see how it all works

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 16:48:35
From: transition
ID: 1982894
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

PermeateFree said:


transition said:

PermeateFree said:

Evolution is governed by the conditions of the environment and the reaction of an organism to it, and hence to enable its survival or adversely cause its demise. If physical attributes decline or disappear is because they are no longer needed for survival. This is not evolution going backwards but going forward and adapting to its new environment.

evolution’s a bunch of accidents, accidents that get tested

Only if you consider environmental change an accident. Mutations happen via genetic errors that can have an immediate effect leading to a new species or conversely highly disadvantaged leading to death. However, most mutations have little to no immediate effect, but if the environment changes it may then come into prominence to help in the species survival.

the neuro-diversity (and physical) of humans surely lends to group advantages, the fitness of any individual example doesn’t need be maximum, more roughly optimizing, distributed

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 17:34:34
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1982912
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

transition said:


PermeateFree said:

transition said:

evolution’s a bunch of accidents, accidents that get tested

Only if you consider environmental change an accident. Mutations happen via genetic errors that can have an immediate effect leading to a new species or conversely highly disadvantaged leading to death. However, most mutations have little to no immediate effect, but if the environment changes it may then come into prominence to help in the species survival.

the neuro-diversity (and physical) of humans surely lends to group advantages, the fitness of any individual example doesn’t need be maximum, more roughly optimizing, distributed

The distribution of advantageous genes is done via natural selection (if that is what you mean). However, if there is no reason (advantage) in the changes, plus if the opposite sex is not attracted to them, then the individual is less likely to breed and pass them on and so they will die out, or stored without action in the genome. It should be pointed out that evolution does not just affect humans and is consistent and applies to all life forms.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 17:43:06
From: roughbarked
ID: 1982917
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

PermeateFree said:


transition said:

PermeateFree said:

Only if you consider environmental change an accident. Mutations happen via genetic errors that can have an immediate effect leading to a new species or conversely highly disadvantaged leading to death. However, most mutations have little to no immediate effect, but if the environment changes it may then come into prominence to help in the species survival.

the neuro-diversity (and physical) of humans surely lends to group advantages, the fitness of any individual example doesn’t need be maximum, more roughly optimizing, distributed

The distribution of advantageous genes is done via natural selection (if that is what you mean). However, if there is no reason (advantage) in the changes, plus if the opposite sex is not attracted to them, then the individual is less likely to breed and pass them on and so they will die out, or stored without action in the genome. It should be pointed out that evolution does not just affect humans and is consistent and applies to all life forms.

If a fish that now lives in total darkness doesn’t really need the eyes any more, the eyes don’t necessarily get reversed backwards and disappear altogether, they just don’t need to be working.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 17:43:36
From: transition
ID: 1982918
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

PermeateFree said:


transition said:

PermeateFree said:

Only if you consider environmental change an accident. Mutations happen via genetic errors that can have an immediate effect leading to a new species or conversely highly disadvantaged leading to death. However, most mutations have little to no immediate effect, but if the environment changes it may then come into prominence to help in the species survival.

the neuro-diversity (and physical) of humans surely lends to group advantages, the fitness of any individual example doesn’t need be maximum, more roughly optimizing, distributed

The distribution of advantageous genes is done via natural selection (if that is what you mean). However, if there is no reason (advantage) in the changes, plus if the opposite sex is not attracted to them, then the individual is less likely to breed and pass them on and so they will die out, or stored without action in the genome. It should be pointed out that evolution does not just affect humans and is consistent and applies to all life forms.

what if say, hypothetically, one in every one-hundred humans was really ‘fit’, but you needed a hundred to throw a really fit one

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 18:06:52
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1982939
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

transition said:


PermeateFree said:

transition said:

the neuro-diversity (and physical) of humans surely lends to group advantages, the fitness of any individual example doesn’t need be maximum, more roughly optimizing, distributed

The distribution of advantageous genes is done via natural selection (if that is what you mean). However, if there is no reason (advantage) in the changes, plus if the opposite sex is not attracted to them, then the individual is less likely to breed and pass them on and so they will die out, or stored without action in the genome. It should be pointed out that evolution does not just affect humans and is consistent and applies to all life forms.

what if say, hypothetically, one in every one-hundred humans was really ‘fit’, but you needed a hundred to throw a really fit one

I don’t think we are discussing evolution, unless you can tell me in simple terms how we are?

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 18:12:50
From: Cymek
ID: 1982942
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

PermeateFree said:


transition said:

PermeateFree said:

The distribution of advantageous genes is done via natural selection (if that is what you mean). However, if there is no reason (advantage) in the changes, plus if the opposite sex is not attracted to them, then the individual is less likely to breed and pass them on and so they will die out, or stored without action in the genome. It should be pointed out that evolution does not just affect humans and is consistent and applies to all life forms.

what if say, hypothetically, one in every one-hundred humans was really ‘fit’, but you needed a hundred to throw a really fit one

I don’t think we are discussing evolution, unless you can tell me in simple terms how we are?

What would we consider recent human evolution, food tolerances such as being able to consume animal milk

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 18:33:02
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1982947
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

Cymek said:


PermeateFree said:

transition said:

what if say, hypothetically, one in every one-hundred humans was really ‘fit’, but you needed a hundred to throw a really fit one

I don’t think we are discussing evolution, unless you can tell me in simple terms how we are?

What would we consider recent human evolution, food tolerances such as being able to consume animal milk

We are a long-lived species; therefore, any noticeable evolutionary changes will take a very long time to eventuate. However, with global warming they may become apparent more quickly, but due to the speed of climate change, we like many species are unlikely to have sufficient time to benefit from any widespread advantage we might possess. It seems to me the only way for survival would be to retain the environment we have.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 18:39:53
From: Cymek
ID: 1982948
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

PermeateFree said:


Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

I don’t think we are discussing evolution, unless you can tell me in simple terms how we are?

What would we consider recent human evolution, food tolerances such as being able to consume animal milk

We are a long-lived species; therefore, any noticeable evolutionary changes will take a very long time to eventuate. However, with global warming they may become apparent more quickly, but due to the speed of climate change, we like many species are unlikely to have sufficient time to benefit from any widespread advantage we might possess. It seems to me the only way for survival would be to retain the environment we have.

Technology perhaps but nature kind of shows us we are outclassed when it comes to raw power of destruction, new disease prevention, climate change, etc.
Perhaps if we were a Type 1 civilisation

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 18:47:46
From: roughbarked
ID: 1982949
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

PermeateFree said:


Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

I don’t think we are discussing evolution, unless you can tell me in simple terms how we are?

What would we consider recent human evolution, food tolerances such as being able to consume animal milk

We are a long-lived species; therefore, any noticeable evolutionary changes will take a very long time to eventuate. However, with global warming they may become apparent more quickly, but due to the speed of climate change, we like many species are unlikely to have sufficient time to benefit from any widespread advantage we might possess. It seems to me the only way for survival would be to retain the environment we have.

The environment we have, needs urgent repair.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 18:47:51
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1982950
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

Cymek said:


PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

What would we consider recent human evolution, food tolerances such as being able to consume animal milk

We are a long-lived species; therefore, any noticeable evolutionary changes will take a very long time to eventuate. However, with global warming they may become apparent more quickly, but due to the speed of climate change, we like many species are unlikely to have sufficient time to benefit from any widespread advantage we might possess. It seems to me the only way for survival would be to retain the environment we have.

Technology perhaps but nature kind of shows us we are outclassed when it comes to raw power of destruction, new disease prevention, climate change, etc.
Perhaps if we were a Type 1 civilisation

You have a great deal more faith in human nature and ability than I do. When I look around at the way the countries of the world are governed and by the people who hold the power, you must be a super optimist to think that things will work out for the best.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 18:50:13
From: roughbarked
ID: 1982951
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

PermeateFree said:


Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

We are a long-lived species; therefore, any noticeable evolutionary changes will take a very long time to eventuate. However, with global warming they may become apparent more quickly, but due to the speed of climate change, we like many species are unlikely to have sufficient time to benefit from any widespread advantage we might possess. It seems to me the only way for survival would be to retain the environment we have.

Technology perhaps but nature kind of shows us we are outclassed when it comes to raw power of destruction, new disease prevention, climate change, etc.
Perhaps if we were a Type 1 civilisation

You have a great deal more faith in human nature and ability than I do. When I look around at the way the countries of the world are governed and by the people who hold the power, you must be a super optimist to think that things will work out for the best.

Indeed. I have known this for most of my life.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 18:55:27
From: Cymek
ID: 1982953
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

PermeateFree said:


Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

We are a long-lived species; therefore, any noticeable evolutionary changes will take a very long time to eventuate. However, with global warming they may become apparent more quickly, but due to the speed of climate change, we like many species are unlikely to have sufficient time to benefit from any widespread advantage we might possess. It seems to me the only way for survival would be to retain the environment we have.

Technology perhaps but nature kind of shows us we are outclassed when it comes to raw power of destruction, new disease prevention, climate change, etc.
Perhaps if we were a Type 1 civilisation

You have a great deal more faith in human nature and ability than I do. When I look around at the way the countries of the world are governed and by the people who hold the power, you must be a super optimist to think that things will work out for the best.

Not really, I see potential but in reality not likely

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 18:58:18
From: buffy
ID: 1982954
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

PermeateFree said:


Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

We are a long-lived species; therefore, any noticeable evolutionary changes will take a very long time to eventuate. However, with global warming they may become apparent more quickly, but due to the speed of climate change, we like many species are unlikely to have sufficient time to benefit from any widespread advantage we might possess. It seems to me the only way for survival would be to retain the environment we have.

Technology perhaps but nature kind of shows us we are outclassed when it comes to raw power of destruction, new disease prevention, climate change, etc.
Perhaps if we were a Type 1 civilisation

You have a great deal more faith in human nature and ability than I do. When I look around at the way the countries of the world are governed and by the people who hold the power, you must be a super optimist to think that things will work out for the best.

Dr Pangloss.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 19:14:31
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1982964
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

buffy said:


PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

Technology perhaps but nature kind of shows us we are outclassed when it comes to raw power of destruction, new disease prevention, climate change, etc.
Perhaps if we were a Type 1 civilisation

You have a great deal more faith in human nature and ability than I do. When I look around at the way the countries of the world are governed and by the people who hold the power, you must be a super optimist to think that things will work out for the best.

Dr Pangloss.

If we had the world of Dr Pangloss and our world population was only 1 billion and not the 8 billion that we have today, we would be laughing, but alas that is not the case. More people demand more of everything, but now we have damaged the environmental resources to such a degree that they cannot recover because of the continual demand we place upon it. So, either quickly knock off a substantial portion of the world’s human population or face the consequences.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/01/2023 19:25:26
From: dv
ID: 1982970
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

I haven’t read the thread. Is there a substantive dispute?

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Date: 18/01/2023 19:27:01
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1982972
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

dv said:


I haven’t read the thread. Is there a substantive dispute?

Nothing that would interest you, I fear.

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Date: 18/01/2023 19:30:02
From: dv
ID: 1982973
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

PermeateFree said:


dv said:

I haven’t read the thread. Is there a substantive dispute?

Nothing that would interest you, I fear.

The OP seems like a good summary of the situation and I thank you for posting the article.

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Date: 18/01/2023 20:25:12
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1982993
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

dv said:


PermeateFree said:

dv said:

I haven’t read the thread. Is there a substantive dispute?

Nothing that would interest you, I fear.

The OP seems like a good summary of the situation and I thank you for posting the article.

Thank you for your “substantive” stamp of approval.

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Date: 18/01/2023 20:51:10
From: roughbarked
ID: 1983011
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

PermeateFree said:


dv said:

PermeateFree said:

Nothing that would interest you, I fear.

The OP seems like a good summary of the situation and I thank you for posting the article.

Thank you for your “substantive” stamp of approval.

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Date: 20/01/2023 16:51:45
From: The-Spectator
ID: 1983765
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

You my friend are a prime example

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Date: 20/01/2023 17:37:12
From: PermeateFree
ID: 1983784
Subject: re: Does evolution ever go backward?

The-Spectator said:


You my friend are a prime example

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