This Facebook group put together a page of all the zoo and aquarium live webcams… for your viewing pleasure..

https://www.zooborns.com/zooborns/webcams.html?fbclid=IwAR24wXOAO5PHucxLqPFH8seFzCajObzNJWbKBBSbTo4ltw25slkUx6FjkuM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeB14l2gL8w

Link

Live Tiger Cam – San Diego Zoo Safari Park

need a poking stick to wake the bugger and do something.

ChrispenEvan said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeB14l2gL8w

Link

Live Tiger Cam – San Diego Zoo Safari Park

need a poking stick to wake the bugger and do something.

Lost the enthusiasm, the stalking, the hunt, the thrill of the kill, the enjoyment of eating something you have killed yourself.

Peak Warming Man said:

ChrispenEvan said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeB14l2gL8w

Link

Live Tiger Cam – San Diego Zoo Safari Park

need a poking stick to wake the bugger and do something.

Lost the enthusiasm, the stalking, the hunt, the thrill of the kill, the enjoyment of eating something you have killed yourself.

Depression does that

Cymek said:

Peak Warming Man said:

ChrispenEvan said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeB14l2gL8w

Link

Live Tiger Cam – San Diego Zoo Safari Park

need a poking stick to wake the bugger and do something.

Lost the enthusiasm, the stalking, the hunt, the thrill of the kill, the enjoyment of eating something you have killed yourself.

Depression does that

it’s literally doing what tigers do.. which is mainly sleep.

Arts said:

Cymek said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Lost the enthusiasm, the stalking, the hunt, the thrill of the kill, the enjoyment of eating something you have killed yourself.

Depression does that

it’s literally doing what tigers do.. which is mainly sleep.

When you are an apex predator and locked-up in a zoo for the benefit of people’s entertainment, the only thing you can do is dream of a better life.

PermeateFree said:

Arts said:

Cymek said:

Depression does that

it’s literally doing what tigers do.. which is mainly sleep.

When you are an apex predator and locked-up in a zoo for the benefit of people’s entertainment, the only thing you can do is dream of a better life.

Yes you’d be pretty unstimulated even if you do sleep a lot.

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Arts said:

it’s literally doing what tigers do.. which is mainly sleep.

When you are an apex predator and locked-up in a zoo for the benefit of people’s entertainment, the only thing you can do is dream of a better life.

Yes you’d be pretty unstimulated even if you do sleep a lot.

that’s why they do enrichment activities and allow the animals to work their brains… we have come a long way for the days of old where the animals were there purely for people’s pleasure…

Arts said:

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

When you are an apex predator and locked-up in a zoo for the benefit of people’s entertainment, the only thing you can do is dream of a better life.

Yes you’d be pretty unstimulated even if you do sleep a lot.

that’s why they do enrichment activities and allow the animals to work their brains… we have come a long way for the days of old where the animals were there purely for people’s pleasure…

Nearly as good as a prisoner serving a life sentence, being given a TV and all the books they could read.

PermeateFree said:

Nearly as good as a prisoner serving a life sentence, being given a TV and all the books they could read.

All the books they can read: to help improve their mind.

A TV: to ensure that they don’t get too smart.

captain_spalding said:

PermeateFree said:

Nearly as good as a prisoner serving a life sentence, being given a TV and all the books they could read.

All the books they can read: to help improve their mind.

A TV: to ensure that they don’t get too smart.

I mean, obviously people who work in zoos and the zoos themselves would love to have all the animals free, but the reality is that zoos contribute to the safety and conservation of many animal species because too many humans are dickwads and think they can hunt and kill whatever they like, and fuck their habitats too…

captain_spalding said:

PermeateFree said:

Nearly as good as a prisoner serving a life sentence, being given a TV and all the books they could read.

All the books they can read: to help improve their mind.

A TV: to ensure that they don’t get too smart.

I have a lot of books and no TV. just sayin’.

ChrispenEvan said:

captain_spalding said:

PermeateFree said:

Nearly as good as a prisoner serving a life sentence, being given a TV and all the books they could read.

All the books they can read: to help improve their mind.

A TV: to ensure that they don’t get too smart.

I have a lot of books and no TV. just sayin’.

You want to be careful then. You may improve your mind beyond where you are on the evolution path.

Arts said:

captain_spalding said:

PermeateFree said:

Nearly as good as a prisoner serving a life sentence, being given a TV and all the books they could read.

All the books they can read: to help improve their mind.

A TV: to ensure that they don’t get too smart.

I mean, obviously people who work in zoos and the zoos themselves would love to have all the animals free, but the reality is that zoos contribute to the safety and conservation of many animal species because too many humans are dickwads and think they can hunt and kill whatever they like, and fuck their habitats too…

Yes I’m being somewhat facetious, unfortunately zoos are necessary to protect animals.
I mean perhaps in the tigers mind its a sweet deal, get fed, cared for, can mate if want to and are safe and don’t have to put in much effort.
Creature comforts

Arts said:

captain_spalding said:

PermeateFree said:

Nearly as good as a prisoner serving a life sentence, being given a TV and all the books they could read.

All the books they can read: to help improve their mind.

A TV: to ensure that they don’t get too smart.

I mean, obviously people who work in zoos and the zoos themselves would love to have all the animals free, but the reality is that zoos contribute to the safety and conservation of many animal species because too many humans are dickwads and think they can hunt and kill whatever they like, and fuck their habitats too…

Must feel good to be one of the last of your species and being lock-ed up all safe and sound. I am sure they are all very grateful.

PermeateFree said:

Arts said:

captain_spalding said:

All the books they can read: to help improve their mind.

A TV: to ensure that they don’t get too smart.

I mean, obviously people who work in zoos and the zoos themselves would love to have all the animals free, but the reality is that zoos contribute to the safety and conservation of many animal species because too many humans are dickwads and think they can hunt and kill whatever they like, and fuck their habitats too…

Must feel good to be one of the last of your species and being lock-ed up all safe and sound. I am sure they are all very grateful.

I’d doubt that perhaps animals are more forgiving than us.
Star Trek the journey home had the humpback whales talking to the probe they obviously didn’t tell the aliens we hunted them to death

ChrispenEvan said:

captain_spalding said:

PermeateFree said:

Nearly as good as a prisoner serving a life sentence, being given a TV and all the books they could read.

All the books they can read: to help improve their mind.

A TV: to ensure that they don’t get too smart.

I have a lot of books and no TV. just sayin’.

You just made the ‘watch’ list, pal.

captain_spalding said:

ChrispenEvan said:

captain_spalding said:

All the books they can read: to help improve their mind.

A TV: to ensure that they don’t get too smart.

I have a lot of books and no TV. just sayin’.

You just made the ‘watch’ list, pal.

is that run by roughbarked?

ChrispenEvan said:

captain_spalding said:

ChrispenEvan said:

I have a lot of books and no TV. just sayin’.

You just made the ‘watch’ list, pal.

is that run by roughbarked?

See, it’s askin’ a lot of questions (like that) that can make folks look kinda funny at ya, boy.

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Arts said:

I mean, obviously people who work in zoos and the zoos themselves would love to have all the animals free, but the reality is that zoos contribute to the safety and conservation of many animal species because too many humans are dickwads and think they can hunt and kill whatever they like, and fuck their habitats too…

Must feel good to be one of the last of your species and being lock-ed up all safe and sound. I am sure they are all very grateful.

I’d doubt that perhaps animals are more forgiving than us.
Star Trek the journey home had the humpback whales talking to the probe they obviously didn’t tell the aliens we hunted them to death

It is all very convenient, just grab a few rare species before they go extinct, keep them in a nice grassed area and get them to breed little ones. Of course, it is a huge drawcard to bring more paying visitors to your establishment. After all you are being so bloody good and above criticism. However, if all owners of natural habitats took that attitude, there would be a lot less animals living in the wild and doing what they have evolved to do. Yes, things are difficult and often dangerous in stopping poachers and others that wish the animals harm, but they still do it and mostly getting better at doing so. Instead, the zoos have the captured animals and their offspring that are unlikely to ever have the knowledge or experience to live in the wild again. But why should the zoos worry, they have a specimen or two of the species (so it won’t die out) that brings in the money and reinforce their self-congratulatory ways.

PermeateFree said:

It is all very convenient, just grab a few rare species before they go extinct, keep them in a nice grassed area and get them to breed little ones. Of course, it is a huge drawcard to bring more paying visitors to your establishment. After all you are being so bloody good and above criticism. However, if all owners of natural habitats took that attitude, there would be a lot less animals living in the wild and doing what they have evolved to do. Yes, things are difficult and often dangerous in stopping poachers and others that wish the animals harm, but they still do it and mostly getting better at doing so. Instead, the zoos have the captured animals and their offspring that are unlikely to ever have the knowledge or experience to live in the wild again. But why should the zoos worry, they have a specimen or two of the species (so it won’t die out) that brings in the money and reinforce their self-congratulatory ways.

What you say has a good degree of truth in it.

But, i can’t imagine that zoo people, especially the people directly involved with caring for the animals, don’t wish better forthem.

Imagine being the ‘keeper’ of e.g. a snow leopard.

Every working day, you’d see this magnificent animal in a habitat that isn’t its own, proper place, having to be provided for and maintained and entertained as best you can.

How could you see that, and not wish for it to be where it belongs, doing what its nature intends it to do? How could you not be simultaneously proud of, and ashamed of, what you do?

captain_spalding said:

PermeateFree said:

It is all very convenient, just grab a few rare species before they go extinct, keep them in a nice grassed area and get them to breed little ones. Of course, it is a huge drawcard to bring more paying visitors to your establishment. After all you are being so bloody good and above criticism. However, if all owners of natural habitats took that attitude, there would be a lot less animals living in the wild and doing what they have evolved to do. Yes, things are difficult and often dangerous in stopping poachers and others that wish the animals harm, but they still do it and mostly getting better at doing so. Instead, the zoos have the captured animals and their offspring that are unlikely to ever have the knowledge or experience to live in the wild again. But why should the zoos worry, they have a specimen or two of the species (so it won’t die out) that brings in the money and reinforce their self-congratulatory ways.

What you say has a good degree of truth in it.

But, i can’t imagine that zoo people, especially the people directly involved with caring for the animals, don’t wish better forthem.

Imagine being the ‘keeper’ of e.g. a snow leopard.

Every working day, you’d see this magnificent animal in a habitat that isn’t its own, proper place, having to be provided for and maintained and entertained as best you can.

How could you see that, and not wish for it to be where it belongs, doing what its nature intends it to do? How could you not be simultaneously proud of, and ashamed of, what you do?

Zoos are large businesses and usually beyond the range of the people they employ to look after the animals, but that is not the point. If people are really interested in caring for the animals, it must be done in or near where the animals naturally live. To do this there needs to be international assistance to protect the animals and where they can be studied in their natural settings to improve our understanding. As an example, do you think Dian Fossey and Jane Goodall would have discovered the inner workings of chimps and mountain gorillas by watching them in a zoo? You should try to separate the things we do for the benefit of animals from how they emotionally benefit us.

Arts said:

This Facebook group put together a page of all the zoo and aquarium live webcams… for your viewing pleasure..

https://www.zooborns.com/zooborns/webcams.html?fbclid=IwAR24wXOAO5PHucxLqPFH8seFzCajObzNJWbKBBSbTo4ltw25slkUx6FjkuM

Excellent…I’m watching penguins in St Louis, MO and the ones at the California Academy of Sciences

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

PermeateFree said:

Must feel good to be one of the last of your species and being lock-ed up all safe and sound. I am sure they are all very grateful.

I’d doubt that perhaps animals are more forgiving than us.
Star Trek the journey home had the humpback whales talking to the probe they obviously didn’t tell the aliens we hunted them to death

It is all very convenient, just grab a few rare species before they go extinct, keep them in a nice grassed area and get them to breed little ones. Of course, it is a huge drawcard to bring more paying visitors to your establishment. After all you are being so bloody good and above criticism. However, if all owners of natural habitats took that attitude, there would be a lot less animals living in the wild and doing what they have evolved to do. Yes, things are difficult and often dangerous in stopping poachers and others that wish the animals harm, but they still do it and mostly getting better at doing so. Instead, the zoos have the captured animals and their offspring that are unlikely to ever have the knowledge or experience to live in the wild again. But why should the zoos worry, they have a specimen or two of the species (so it won’t die out) that brings in the money and reinforce their self-congratulatory ways.

Drones are being used for poacher spotting, and in many places paying people more than what they would have got for killing the poached animals and training them up to be involved in conservation and restoration of habitat is working in many different countries around the world.

ms spock said:

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

I’d doubt that perhaps animals are more forgiving than us.
Star Trek the journey home had the humpback whales talking to the probe they obviously didn’t tell the aliens we hunted them to death

It is all very convenient, just grab a few rare species before they go extinct, keep them in a nice grassed area and get them to breed little ones. Of course, it is a huge drawcard to bring more paying visitors to your establishment. After all you are being so bloody good and above criticism. However, if all owners of natural habitats took that attitude, there would be a lot less animals living in the wild and doing what they have evolved to do. Yes, things are difficult and often dangerous in stopping poachers and others that wish the animals harm, but they still do it and mostly getting better at doing so. Instead, the zoos have the captured animals and their offspring that are unlikely to ever have the knowledge or experience to live in the wild again. But why should the zoos worry, they have a specimen or two of the species (so it won’t die out) that brings in the money and reinforce their self-congratulatory ways.

Drones are being used for poacher spotting, and in many places paying people more than what they would have got for killing the poached animals and training them up to be involved in conservation and restoration of habitat is working in many different countries around the world.

PF is conveniently neglecting to mention the breeding programs and native species rerelease and repopulation conservation efforts that zoos are able to do with all those tourist dollars… because that doesn’t fit with their word view of zoos.. it’s pointless arguing with people like this.

ms spock said:

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

I’d doubt that perhaps animals are more forgiving than us.
Star Trek the journey home had the humpback whales talking to the probe they obviously didn’t tell the aliens we hunted them to death

It is all very convenient, just grab a few rare species before they go extinct, keep them in a nice grassed area and get them to breed little ones. Of course, it is a huge drawcard to bring more paying visitors to your establishment. After all you are being so bloody good and above criticism. However, if all owners of natural habitats took that attitude, there would be a lot less animals living in the wild and doing what they have evolved to do. Yes, things are difficult and often dangerous in stopping poachers and others that wish the animals harm, but they still do it and mostly getting better at doing so. Instead, the zoos have the captured animals and their offspring that are unlikely to ever have the knowledge or experience to live in the wild again. But why should the zoos worry, they have a specimen or two of the species (so it won’t die out) that brings in the money and reinforce their self-congratulatory ways.

Drones are being used for poacher spotting, and in many places paying people more than what they would have got for killing the poached animals and training them up to be involved in conservation and restoration of habitat is working in many different countries around the world.

Drones could share information with other drones…

One example a drone used as above could share the location of invasive pests to drones used for that purpose of controlling pests.

Arts said:

ms spock said:

PermeateFree said:

It is all very convenient, just grab a few rare species before they go extinct, keep them in a nice grassed area and get them to breed little ones. Of course, it is a huge drawcard to bring more paying visitors to your establishment. After all you are being so bloody good and above criticism. However, if all owners of natural habitats took that attitude, there would be a lot less animals living in the wild and doing what they have evolved to do. Yes, things are difficult and often dangerous in stopping poachers and others that wish the animals harm, but they still do it and mostly getting better at doing so. Instead, the zoos have the captured animals and their offspring that are unlikely to ever have the knowledge or experience to live in the wild again. But why should the zoos worry, they have a specimen or two of the species (so it won’t die out) that brings in the money and reinforce their self-congratulatory ways.

Drones are being used for poacher spotting, and in many places paying people more than what they would have got for killing the poached animals and training them up to be involved in conservation and restoration of habitat is working in many different countries around the world.

PF is conveniently neglecting to mention the breeding programs and native species rerelease and repopulation conservation efforts that zoos are able to do with all those tourist dollars… because that doesn’t fit with their word view of zoos.. it’s pointless arguing with people like this.

..it’s pointless arguing with people like this.

Go on, you know you want to.

Arts said:

ms spock said:

PermeateFree said:

It is all very convenient, just grab a few rare species before they go extinct, keep them in a nice grassed area and get them to breed little ones. Of course, it is a huge drawcard to bring more paying visitors to your establishment. After all you are being so bloody good and above criticism. However, if all owners of natural habitats took that attitude, there would be a lot less animals living in the wild and doing what they have evolved to do. Yes, things are difficult and often dangerous in stopping poachers and others that wish the animals harm, but they still do it and mostly getting better at doing so. Instead, the zoos have the captured animals and their offspring that are unlikely to ever have the knowledge or experience to live in the wild again. But why should the zoos worry, they have a specimen or two of the species (so it won’t die out) that brings in the money and reinforce their self-congratulatory ways.

Drones are being used for poacher spotting, and in many places paying people more than what they would have got for killing the poached animals and training them up to be involved in conservation and restoration of habitat is working in many different countries around the world.

PF is conveniently neglecting to mention the breeding programs and native species rerelease and repopulation conservation efforts that zoos are able to do with all those tourist dollars… because that doesn’t fit with their word view of zoos.. it’s pointless arguing with people like this.

Also there is a lot of cross over of research as well.

Zookeepers did get depressed about the conditions but it did spur them on to do lots of insitu work. It got so if a zookeeper left in Australia it was most probably that their species could become extinct. When I studied it it really did my head in. And I have seen that happened. So sad. Especially with the fires. Whole species got wiped out, and none have been found since.

You got to go and see breeding programmes insitu so when they animals were released they were already used to the area.

The planting of trees/restoration of habitat/ecosystems was always so amazing – who would turn up. It can come back so quickly. If we could show this to kids and teenagers we could really help with the ecocide grief and the feeling like nothing can make a difference. In a very short time time the missing insects can return, and everyone else turns up.

I went bush once and I thought we won’t see any so I stayed in and slept in. They went and and saw the birds. It was amazing.

Graeme Phipps would say at 5 years he would extend all his zookeepers into habitat/ecosystem engagement.

sibeen said:

Arts said:

ms spock said:

Drones are being used for poacher spotting, and in many places paying people more than what they would have got for killing the poached animals and training them up to be involved in conservation and restoration of habitat is working in many different countries around the world.

PF is conveniently neglecting to mention the breeding programs and native species rerelease and repopulation conservation efforts that zoos are able to do with all those tourist dollars… because that doesn’t fit with their word view of zoos.. it’s pointless arguing with people like this.

..it’s pointless arguing with people like this.

Go on, you know you want to.

Id’ rather spend an afternoon talking to you…

Arts said:

sibeen said:

Arts said:

PF is conveniently neglecting to mention the breeding programs and native species rerelease and repopulation conservation efforts that zoos are able to do with all those tourist dollars… because that doesn’t fit with their word view of zoos.. it’s pointless arguing with people like this.

..it’s pointless arguing with people like this.

Go on, you know you want to.

Id’ rather spend an afternoon talking to you…

gawd.

Tau.Neutrino said:

ms spock said:

PermeateFree said:

It is all very convenient, just grab a few rare species before they go extinct, keep them in a nice grassed area and get them to breed little ones. Of course, it is a huge drawcard to bring more paying visitors to your establishment. After all you are being so bloody good and above criticism. However, if all owners of natural habitats took that attitude, there would be a lot less animals living in the wild and doing what they have evolved to do. Yes, things are difficult and often dangerous in stopping poachers and others that wish the animals harm, but they still do it and mostly getting better at doing so. Instead, the zoos have the captured animals and their offspring that are unlikely to ever have the knowledge or experience to live in the wild again. But why should the zoos worry, they have a specimen or two of the species (so it won’t die out) that brings in the money and reinforce their self-congratulatory ways.

Drones are being used for poacher spotting, and in many places paying people more than what they would have got for killing the poached animals and training them up to be involved in conservation and restoration of habitat is working in many different countries around the world.

Drones could share information with other drones…

One example a drone used as above could share the location of invasive pests to drones used for that purpose of controlling pests.

There needs to be no more monocrops. It destroys the soils, and the places where they have put back the native species there is actually an overall improvement of the environment.

I put plants in here and we have so many insects if I told the etymologists what we have got back here for relatively minimal effort I would never get rid of them.

99% of the worlds animals are invertebrates and our zoos don’t even have proper collections of them. That is a real worry. They don’t even have basic husbandary manuals for them.

ms spock said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

ms spock said:

Drones are being used for poacher spotting, and in many places paying people more than what they would have got for killing the poached animals and training them up to be involved in conservation and restoration of habitat is working in many different countries around the world.

Drones could share information with other drones…

One example a drone used as above could share the location of invasive pests to drones used for that purpose of controlling pests.

There needs to be no more monocrops. It destroys the soils, and the places where they have put back the native species there is actually an overall improvement of the environment.

I put plants in here and we have so many insects if I told the etymologists what we have got back here for relatively minimal effort I would never get rid of them.

99% of the worlds animals are invertebrates and our zoos don’t even have proper collections of them. That is a real worry. They don’t even have basic husbandary manuals for them.

entomologists, Spock

ChrispenEvan said:

Arts said:

sibeen said:

..it’s pointless arguing with people like this.

Go on, you know you want to.

Id’ rather spend an afternoon talking to you…

gawd.

Some people have innate good taste.

sibeen said:

Arts said:

ms spock said:

Drones are being used for poacher spotting, and in many places paying people more than what they would have got for killing the poached animals and training them up to be involved in conservation and restoration of habitat is working in many different countries around the world.

PF is conveniently neglecting to mention the breeding programs and native species rerelease and repopulation conservation efforts that zoos are able to do with all those tourist dollars… because that doesn’t fit with their word view of zoos.. it’s pointless arguing with people like this.

..it’s pointless arguing with people like this.

Go on, you know you want to.

It’s not arguing. It’s a debate. And there are so many sides to it, wild life caring has it’s pros and cons. Different research brings different things together, and strange bedfellows come up with devices that save an ecosystem and thus species.

I also want to be clear that the zoos who are working towards a sustainable future are public zoos who work on a register. There are many private zoos who do exactly what the anti zoo folk say they do.. treat the animals with little enrichment, work on a massive profit margin for themselves rather than conservation efforts. feel stupid experiences like patting a tiger or riding an elephant. Do not change husbandry practices with new information… etc… all the bad things for all the animal.. and they usually try to get the most exotic species they can…

so there is a lot of bad things that go on under this umbrella too…

Arts said:

ms spock said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Drones could share information with other drones…

One example a drone used as above could share the location of invasive pests to drones used for that purpose of controlling pests.

There needs to be no more monocrops. It destroys the soils, and the places where they have put back the native species there is actually an overall improvement of the environment.

I put plants in here and we have so many insects if I told the etymologists what we have got back here for relatively minimal effort I would never get rid of them.

99% of the worlds animals are invertebrates and our zoos don’t even have proper collections of them. That is a real worry. They don’t even have basic husbandary manuals for them.

entomologists, Spock

***laughs OMG!***

***whispers the etymologists are also critically endangered, we chipped them and released them, fingers crossed, so far, so good, it’s just if any of them will procreate to start the next generation off, anyway I have said much more than I should have***

***looks left and then looks right***

Don’t tell anyone, you didn’t hear it from me!

Arts said:

sibeen said:

Arts said:

PF is conveniently neglecting to mention the breeding programs and native species rerelease and repopulation conservation efforts that zoos are able to do with all those tourist dollars… because that doesn’t fit with their word view of zoos.. it’s pointless arguing with people like this.

..it’s pointless arguing with people like this.

Go on, you know you want to.

Id’ rather spend an afternoon talking to you…

LOL

Arts said:

I also want to be clear that the zoos who are working towards a sustainable future are public zoos who work on a register. There are many private zoos who do exactly what the anti zoo folk say they do.. treat the animals with little enrichment, work on a massive profit margin for themselves rather than conservation efforts. feel stupid experiences like patting a tiger or riding an elephant. Do not change husbandry practices with new information… etc… all the bad things for all the animal.. and they usually try to get the most exotic species they can…

so there is a lot of bad things that go on under this umbrella too…

sells stupid experiences…

Arts said:

I also want to be clear that the zoos who are working towards a sustainable future are public zoos who work on a register. There are many private zoos who do exactly what the anti zoo folk say they do.. treat the animals with little enrichment, work on a massive profit margin for themselves rather than conservation efforts. feel stupid experiences like patting a tiger or riding an elephant. Do not change husbandry practices with new information… etc… all the bad things for all the animal.. and they usually try to get the most exotic species they can…

so there is a lot of bad things that go on under this umbrella too…

Graeme Phipps won the award for creating the genetics register in Australia and surrounds…

Zoos have to register to get the animals and show cause. He won that around 2006 0r 2007.

Arts said:

so there is a lot of bad things that go on under this umbrella too…

Aye. Never trust umbrellas.

Arts said:

Arts said:

I also want to be clear that the zoos who are working towards a sustainable future are public zoos who work on a register. There are many private zoos who do exactly what the anti zoo folk say they do.. treat the animals with little enrichment, work on a massive profit margin for themselves rather than conservation efforts. feel stupid experiences like patting a tiger or riding an elephant. Do not change husbandry practices with new information… etc… all the bad things for all the animal.. and they usually try to get the most exotic species they can…

so there is a lot of bad things that go on under this umbrella too…

sells stupid experiences…

I thought you meant “feel-good experiences”, but that it’s stupid. It worked for me anyway.

Arts said:

This Facebook group put together a page of all the zoo and aquarium live webcams… for your viewing pleasure..

https://www.zooborns.com/zooborns/webcams.html?fbclid=IwAR24wXOAO5PHucxLqPFH8seFzCajObzNJWbKBBSbTo4ltw25slkUx6FjkuM

Bookmarked.

ms spock said:

PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

I’d doubt that perhaps animals are more forgiving than us.
Star Trek the journey home had the humpback whales talking to the probe they obviously didn’t tell the aliens we hunted them to death

It is all very convenient, just grab a few rare species before they go extinct, keep them in a nice grassed area and get them to breed little ones. Of course, it is a huge drawcard to bring more paying visitors to your establishment. After all you are being so bloody good and above criticism. However, if all owners of natural habitats took that attitude, there would be a lot less animals living in the wild and doing what they have evolved to do. Yes, things are difficult and often dangerous in stopping poachers and others that wish the animals harm, but they still do it and mostly getting better at doing so. Instead, the zoos have the captured animals and their offspring that are unlikely to ever have the knowledge or experience to live in the wild again. But why should the zoos worry, they have a specimen or two of the species (so it won’t die out) that brings in the money and reinforce their self-congratulatory ways.

Drones are being used for poacher spotting, and in many places paying people more than what they would have got for killing the poached animals and training them up to be involved in conservation and restoration of habitat is working in many different countries around the world.

And it is all good and we need much more of it. In Australia there are a considerable number of species that are in trouble largely due to introduced animals like cats, foxes, toads and many others, but there is one organisation that is building large feral proof enclosures to protect them from these predators and other things that will do them harm. Their success with the dramatic increases in native animal populations is proof of their good work, the company responsible is the Australian Wildlife Conservancy (AWC) to whom I gladly make monthly payments for the honor of doing something that works for our wildlife that would in many cases go extinct without their efforts.

It is a very well run and supported organisation that is getting exceptional results, plus the animals are in their native habitat and in every other respect are living their lives naturally with every indication of their recovery.

Overseas with different environments and problems, ways are being developed to protect their flora and fauna, but we must be careful how it is done and not domesticate the wildlife for the amusement of the gawking public.

Arts said:

ms spock said:

PermeateFree said:

It is all very convenient, just grab a few rare species before they go extinct, keep them in a nice grassed area and get them to breed little ones. Of course, it is a huge drawcard to bring more paying visitors to your establishment. After all you are being so bloody good and above criticism. However, if all owners of natural habitats took that attitude, there would be a lot less animals living in the wild and doing what they have evolved to do. Yes, things are difficult and often dangerous in stopping poachers and others that wish the animals harm, but they still do it and mostly getting better at doing so. Instead, the zoos have the captured animals and their offspring that are unlikely to ever have the knowledge or experience to live in the wild again. But why should the zoos worry, they have a specimen or two of the species (so it won’t die out) that brings in the money and reinforce their self-congratulatory ways.

Drones are being used for poacher spotting, and in many places paying people more than what they would have got for killing the poached animals and training them up to be involved in conservation and restoration of habitat is working in many different countries around the world.

PF is conveniently neglecting to mention the breeding programs and native species rerelease and repopulation conservation efforts that zoos are able to do with all those tourist dollars… because that doesn’t fit with their word view of zoos.. it’s pointless arguing with people like this.

Zoos and people like you should realise their limitations. I have no problem with breeding programs with animals that can be released into safe enclosures as built by the AWC organisation, but this can only be done with small animals that can be kept in an undomesticated state and not released into unprotected areas where their introduced predators roam. However, small wild populations of animals on offshore islands would be the major reserve of these animals, less so zoos.

Arts is neglecting to mention that the vast majority of zoo animals are little more than partly domesticated lifeforms that are there to amuse the public who expect no more. It gives little respect to the animals and mostly depicts them in an artificial light.

Arts said:

sibeen said:

Arts said:

PF is conveniently neglecting to mention the breeding programs and native species rerelease and repopulation conservation efforts that zoos are able to do with all those tourist dollars… because that doesn’t fit with their word view of zoos.. it’s pointless arguing with people like this.

..it’s pointless arguing with people like this.

Go on, you know you want to.

Id’ rather spend an afternoon talking to you…

Why not,you are well matched in knowledge and attitude.

PermeateFree said:

Arts said:

sibeen said:

..it’s pointless arguing with people like this.

Go on, you know you want to.

Id’ rather spend an afternoon talking to you…

Why not,you are well matched in knowledge and attitude.

Excellent repartee :)

sibeen said:

PermeateFree said:

Arts said:

Id’ rather spend an afternoon talking to you…

Why not,you are well matched in knowledge and attitude.

Excellent repartee :)

PermeateFree said:

ms spock said:

PermeateFree said:

It is all very convenient, just grab a few rare species before they go extinct, keep them in a nice grassed area and get them to breed little ones. Of course, it is a huge drawcard to bring more paying visitors to your establishment. After all you are being so bloody good and above criticism. However, if all owners of natural habitats took that attitude, there would be a lot less animals living in the wild and doing what they have evolved to do. Yes, things are difficult and often dangerous in stopping poachers and others that wish the animals harm, but they still do it and mostly getting better at doing so. Instead, the zoos have the captured animals and their offspring that are unlikely to ever have the knowledge or experience to live in the wild again. But why should the zoos worry, they have a specimen or two of the species (so it won’t die out) that brings in the money and reinforce their self-congratulatory ways.

Drones are being used for poacher spotting, and in many places paying people more than what they would have got for killing the poached animals and training them up to be involved in conservation and restoration of habitat is working in many different countries around the world.

And it is all good and we need much more of it. In Australia there are a considerable number of species that are in trouble largely due to introduced animals like cats, foxes, toads and many others, but there is one organisation that is building large feral proof enclosures to protect them from these predators and other things that will do them harm. Their success with the dramatic increases in native animal populations is proof of their good work, the company responsible is the Australian Wildlife Conservancy (AWC) to whom I gladly make monthly payments for the honor of doing something that works for our wildlife that would in many cases go extinct without their efforts.

It is a very well run and supported organisation that is getting exceptional results, plus the animals are in their native habitat and in every other respect are living their lives naturally with every indication of their recovery.

Overseas with different environments and problems, ways are being developed to protect their flora and fauna, but we must be careful how it is done and not domesticate the wildlife for the amusement of the gawking public.

We need to eliminate all the brumbies. Their hooves are destroying our soil structures and that is contributing to our extinction debt.

PermeateFree said:

Arts said:

ms spock said:

Drones are being used for poacher spotting, and in many places paying people more than what they would have got for killing the poached animals and training them up to be involved in conservation and restoration of habitat is working in many different countries around the world.

PF is conveniently neglecting to mention the breeding programs and native species rerelease and repopulation conservation efforts that zoos are able to do with all those tourist dollars… because that doesn’t fit with their word view of zoos.. it’s pointless arguing with people like this.

Zoos and people like you should realise their limitations. I have no problem with breeding programs with animals that can be released into safe enclosures as built by the AWC organisation, but this can only be done with small animals that can be kept in an undomesticated state and not released into unprotected areas where their introduced predators roam. However, small wild populations of animals on offshore islands would be the major reserve of these animals, less so zoos.

Arts is neglecting to mention that the vast majority of zoo animals are little more than partly domesticated lifeforms that are there to amuse the public who expect no more. It gives little respect to the animals and mostly depicts them in an artificial light.

You can’t release them into the wild that is for sure. But they at least engage us in this every discussion of ex-situ and in-situ living situations. These are important discussions, because until we eradicate ferals any animals bred in captive breeding programmes (far away from the public) will we eaten and decimated by feral populations or all the hooves destroying the soil structures will mean they starve to death.

ms spock said:

PermeateFree said:

Arts said:

PF is conveniently neglecting to mention the breeding programs and native species rerelease and repopulation conservation efforts that zoos are able to do with all those tourist dollars… because that doesn’t fit with their word view of zoos.. it’s pointless arguing with people like this.

Zoos and people like you should realise their limitations. I have no problem with breeding programs with animals that can be released into safe enclosures as built by the AWC organisation, but this can only be done with small animals that can be kept in an undomesticated state and not released into unprotected areas where their introduced predators roam. However, small wild populations of animals on offshore islands would be the major reserve of these animals, less so zoos.

Arts is neglecting to mention that the vast majority of zoo animals are little more than partly domesticated lifeforms that are there to amuse the public who expect no more. It gives little respect to the animals and mostly depicts them in an artificial light.

You can’t release them into the wild that is for sure. But they at least engage us in this every discussion of ex-situ and in-situ living situations. These are important discussions, because until we eradicate ferals any animals bred in captive breeding programmes (far away from the public) will we eaten and decimated by feral populations or all the hooves destroying the soil structures will mean they starve to death.

Some people have been trying to remove feral animals for a very long time and at times achieving partial success, but on the larger scale it has been a dismal failure. The only realistic method for large areas is feral proof fencing, anything else has not worked overtime. This method protects even the most threatened species, permitting them to behave naturally, reproduce and live as they have for millions of years. All you need is money and dedication.