Date: 11/03/2023 10:54:20
From: Ian
ID: 2005422
Subject: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

What’s the scam with Nine’s “Panel of Experts”? Red alert, it’s ASPI

The backlash over Nine Entertainment’s “Reds Under the Beds” campaign continues as they defend their stories by pointing to “panel of experts”. Who are these experts?

Most of them are connected to the pro-war think tank ASPI (Australian Strategic Policy Institute) which is funded by the government and global arms manufacturers – in other words, the SMH and Age “Red Alert” campaign is supported by confirmation bias of the most dangerous kind, the kind which takes countries to war.

Starting with Peter Jennings. In the Murdoch press today pushing the same fear-mongering line, Jennings is the former Executive Director and now a Senior Fellow of  Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI), and a well known China hawk. He has a long record of public service roles in and around the Defence Department. As far as we can see from his extensive resume, the closest he appears to have been to China was being responsible for “developing a policy for the stabilisation operation in East Timor in 1999” – some 10,000km away from Beijing.

ASPI describes itself as “an independent, non-partisan think tank that produces expert and timely advice for Australia’s strategic and defence leaders”. It gets its primary funding from the Australian Defence Department (ADF) and other government agencies.

Then there is Lavina Lee. ASPI ties again, Lee is a senior lecturer in Politics and International Relations at Macquarie University and an ASPI council member. An impressive resume of public policy work but not much in-depth on China.

Lesley Seebeck completes the trio of panelists directly related to ASPI. She is described as an “ASPI Strategist”. Her LinkedIn profile lists a total of 13 roles, including a stint on the Naval Shipbuilding Advisory Board, but nothing which indicates expertise on China or its military.

ASPI describes itself as “an independent, non-partisan think tank that produces expert and timely advice for Australia’s strategic and defence leaders”. It gets its primary funding from the Australian Defence Department (ADF) and other government agencies.

Also on Nine’s warmonger panel is Mick Ryan, a retired major general who served in the ADF for more than 35 years and was commander of the Australia Defence College. in the latter role he has been an occasional guest lecturer for, you know who, ASPI. He is the author of “War Transformed, the Future of Twenty-First-Century Great Power Competition and Conflict,” which provides insights for those involved in the design of military strategy, and the forces that must execute that strategy”.

Finally, there is Alan Finkel, best known for the “Finkel Review,” which dealt with Australia’s energy supply and the impacts of climate change. Well respected and with a diverse career in science and public service, Finkel’s Wikipedia entry is impressive, but again, nary a mention of any particular expertise on China, or warfare for that matter. His only ASPI connection was a seminar back in 2017 on “The challenge of energy resilience in Australia.”

So there we have it, the panel of “China experts” and their backers, who the editors and journalist are using to legitimise their calls for the inevitability of war with China; including the suggestion of nuclear armament with the help of the US and hinting at the need for reintroducing conscription. It is not just a scam, but a serious threat to Australia to have this level of dangerously biased reporting peddled in our mainstream media.

https://michaelwest.com.au/whats-the-scam-with-nines-panel-of-experts-red-alert-its-aspi/

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2023 11:02:59
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 2005428
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

Ian said:


What’s the scam with Nine’s “Panel of Experts”? Red alert, it’s ASPI

The backlash over Nine Entertainment’s “Reds Under the Beds” campaign continues as they defend their stories by pointing to “panel of experts”. Who are these experts?

Most of them are connected to the pro-war think tank ASPI (Australian Strategic Policy Institute) which is funded by the government and global arms manufacturers – in other words, the SMH and Age “Red Alert” campaign is supported by confirmation bias of the most dangerous kind, the kind which takes countries to war.

Starting with Peter Jennings. In the Murdoch press today pushing the same fear-mongering line, Jennings is the former Executive Director and now a Senior Fellow of  Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI), and a well known China hawk. He has a long record of public service roles in and around the Defence Department. As far as we can see from his extensive resume, the closest he appears to have been to China was being responsible for “developing a policy for the stabilisation operation in East Timor in 1999” – some 10,000km away from Beijing.

ASPI describes itself as “an independent, non-partisan think tank that produces expert and timely advice for Australia’s strategic and defence leaders”. It gets its primary funding from the Australian Defence Department (ADF) and other government agencies.

Then there is Lavina Lee. ASPI ties again, Lee is a senior lecturer in Politics and International Relations at Macquarie University and an ASPI council member. An impressive resume of public policy work but not much in-depth on China.

Lesley Seebeck completes the trio of panelists directly related to ASPI. She is described as an “ASPI Strategist”. Her LinkedIn profile lists a total of 13 roles, including a stint on the Naval Shipbuilding Advisory Board, but nothing which indicates expertise on China or its military.

ASPI describes itself as “an independent, non-partisan think tank that produces expert and timely advice for Australia’s strategic and defence leaders”. It gets its primary funding from the Australian Defence Department (ADF) and other government agencies.

Also on Nine’s warmonger panel is Mick Ryan, a retired major general who served in the ADF for more than 35 years and was commander of the Australia Defence College. in the latter role he has been an occasional guest lecturer for, you know who, ASPI. He is the author of “War Transformed, the Future of Twenty-First-Century Great Power Competition and Conflict,” which provides insights for those involved in the design of military strategy, and the forces that must execute that strategy”.

Finally, there is Alan Finkel, best known for the “Finkel Review,” which dealt with Australia’s energy supply and the impacts of climate change. Well respected and with a diverse career in science and public service, Finkel’s Wikipedia entry is impressive, but again, nary a mention of any particular expertise on China, or warfare for that matter. His only ASPI connection was a seminar back in 2017 on “The challenge of energy resilience in Australia.”

So there we have it, the panel of “China experts” and their backers, who the editors and journalist are using to legitimise their calls for the inevitability of war with China; including the suggestion of nuclear armament with the help of the US and hinting at the need for reintroducing conscription. It is not just a scam, but a serious threat to Australia to have this level of dangerously biased reporting peddled in our mainstream media.

https://michaelwest.com.au/whats-the-scam-with-nines-panel-of-experts-red-alert-its-aspi/

Michael West is a nutter.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2023 11:23:14
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 2005441
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

Peak Warming Man said:


Ian said:

What’s the scam with Nine’s “Panel of Experts”? Red alert, it’s ASPI

The backlash over Nine Entertainment’s “Reds Under the Beds” campaign continues as they defend their stories by pointing to “panel of experts”. Who are these experts?

Most of them are connected to the pro-war think tank ASPI (Australian Strategic Policy Institute) which is funded by the government and global arms manufacturers – in other words, the SMH and Age “Red Alert” campaign is supported by confirmation bias of the most dangerous kind, the kind which takes countries to war.

Starting with Peter Jennings. In the Murdoch press today pushing the same fear-mongering line, Jennings is the former Executive Director and now a Senior Fellow of  Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI), and a well known China hawk. He has a long record of public service roles in and around the Defence Department. As far as we can see from his extensive resume, the closest he appears to have been to China was being responsible for “developing a policy for the stabilisation operation in East Timor in 1999” – some 10,000km away from Beijing.

ASPI describes itself as “an independent, non-partisan think tank that produces expert and timely advice for Australia’s strategic and defence leaders”. It gets its primary funding from the Australian Defence Department (ADF) and other government agencies.

Then there is Lavina Lee. ASPI ties again, Lee is a senior lecturer in Politics and International Relations at Macquarie University and an ASPI council member. An impressive resume of public policy work but not much in-depth on China.

Lesley Seebeck completes the trio of panelists directly related to ASPI. She is described as an “ASPI Strategist”. Her LinkedIn profile lists a total of 13 roles, including a stint on the Naval Shipbuilding Advisory Board, but nothing which indicates expertise on China or its military.

ASPI describes itself as “an independent, non-partisan think tank that produces expert and timely advice for Australia’s strategic and defence leaders”. It gets its primary funding from the Australian Defence Department (ADF) and other government agencies.

Also on Nine’s warmonger panel is Mick Ryan, a retired major general who served in the ADF for more than 35 years and was commander of the Australia Defence College. in the latter role he has been an occasional guest lecturer for, you know who, ASPI. He is the author of “War Transformed, the Future of Twenty-First-Century Great Power Competition and Conflict,” which provides insights for those involved in the design of military strategy, and the forces that must execute that strategy”.

Finally, there is Alan Finkel, best known for the “Finkel Review,” which dealt with Australia’s energy supply and the impacts of climate change. Well respected and with a diverse career in science and public service, Finkel’s Wikipedia entry is impressive, but again, nary a mention of any particular expertise on China, or warfare for that matter. His only ASPI connection was a seminar back in 2017 on “The challenge of energy resilience in Australia.”

So there we have it, the panel of “China experts” and their backers, who the editors and journalist are using to legitimise their calls for the inevitability of war with China; including the suggestion of nuclear armament with the help of the US and hinting at the need for reintroducing conscription. It is not just a scam, but a serious threat to Australia to have this level of dangerously biased reporting peddled in our mainstream media.

https://michaelwest.com.au/whats-the-scam-with-nines-panel-of-experts-red-alert-its-aspi/

Michael West is a nutter.

Can you provide us with some examples of his nutterishness?

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2023 11:28:38
From: party_pants
ID: 2005446
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

The Rev Dodgson said:


Peak Warming Man said:

Ian said:

What’s the scam with Nine’s “Panel of Experts”? Red alert, it’s ASPI

The backlash over Nine Entertainment’s “Reds Under the Beds” campaign continues as they defend their stories by pointing to “panel of experts”. Who are these experts?

Most of them are connected to the pro-war think tank ASPI (Australian Strategic Policy Institute) which is funded by the government and global arms manufacturers – in other words, the SMH and Age “Red Alert” campaign is supported by confirmation bias of the most dangerous kind, the kind which takes countries to war.

Starting with Peter Jennings. In the Murdoch press today pushing the same fear-mongering line, Jennings is the former Executive Director and now a Senior Fellow of  Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI), and a well known China hawk. He has a long record of public service roles in and around the Defence Department. As far as we can see from his extensive resume, the closest he appears to have been to China was being responsible for “developing a policy for the stabilisation operation in East Timor in 1999” – some 10,000km away from Beijing.

ASPI describes itself as “an independent, non-partisan think tank that produces expert and timely advice for Australia’s strategic and defence leaders”. It gets its primary funding from the Australian Defence Department (ADF) and other government agencies.

Then there is Lavina Lee. ASPI ties again, Lee is a senior lecturer in Politics and International Relations at Macquarie University and an ASPI council member. An impressive resume of public policy work but not much in-depth on China.

Lesley Seebeck completes the trio of panelists directly related to ASPI. She is described as an “ASPI Strategist”. Her LinkedIn profile lists a total of 13 roles, including a stint on the Naval Shipbuilding Advisory Board, but nothing which indicates expertise on China or its military.

ASPI describes itself as “an independent, non-partisan think tank that produces expert and timely advice for Australia’s strategic and defence leaders”. It gets its primary funding from the Australian Defence Department (ADF) and other government agencies.

Also on Nine’s warmonger panel is Mick Ryan, a retired major general who served in the ADF for more than 35 years and was commander of the Australia Defence College. in the latter role he has been an occasional guest lecturer for, you know who, ASPI. He is the author of “War Transformed, the Future of Twenty-First-Century Great Power Competition and Conflict,” which provides insights for those involved in the design of military strategy, and the forces that must execute that strategy”.

Finally, there is Alan Finkel, best known for the “Finkel Review,” which dealt with Australia’s energy supply and the impacts of climate change. Well respected and with a diverse career in science and public service, Finkel’s Wikipedia entry is impressive, but again, nary a mention of any particular expertise on China, or warfare for that matter. His only ASPI connection was a seminar back in 2017 on “The challenge of energy resilience in Australia.”

So there we have it, the panel of “China experts” and their backers, who the editors and journalist are using to legitimise their calls for the inevitability of war with China; including the suggestion of nuclear armament with the help of the US and hinting at the need for reintroducing conscription. It is not just a scam, but a serious threat to Australia to have this level of dangerously biased reporting peddled in our mainstream media.

https://michaelwest.com.au/whats-the-scam-with-nines-panel-of-experts-red-alert-its-aspi/

Michael West is a nutter.

Can you provide us with some examples of his nutterishness?

https://michaelwest.com.au/whats-the-scam-with-nines-panel-of-experts-red-alert-its-aspi/

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2023 11:36:22
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2005448
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

The Rev Dodgson said:


Peak Warming Man said:

Ian said:

What’s the scam with Nine’s “Panel of Experts”? Red alert, it’s ASPI

The backlash over Nine Entertainment’s “Reds Under the Beds” campaign continues as they defend their stories by pointing to “panel of experts”. Who are these experts?

Most of them are connected to the pro-war think tank ASPI (Australian Strategic Policy Institute) which is funded by the government and global arms manufacturers – in other words, the SMH and Age “Red Alert” campaign is supported by confirmation bias of the most dangerous kind, the kind which takes countries to war.

Starting with Peter Jennings. In the Murdoch press today pushing the same fear-mongering line, Jennings is the former Executive Director and now a Senior Fellow of  Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI), and a well known China hawk. He has a long record of public service roles in and around the Defence Department. As far as we can see from his extensive resume, the closest he appears to have been to China was being responsible for “developing a policy for the stabilisation operation in East Timor in 1999” – some 10,000km away from Beijing.

ASPI describes itself as “an independent, non-partisan think tank that produces expert and timely advice for Australia’s strategic and defence leaders”. It gets its primary funding from the Australian Defence Department (ADF) and other government agencies.

Then there is Lavina Lee. ASPI ties again, Lee is a senior lecturer in Politics and International Relations at Macquarie University and an ASPI council member. An impressive resume of public policy work but not much in-depth on China.

Lesley Seebeck completes the trio of panelists directly related to ASPI. She is described as an “ASPI Strategist”. Her LinkedIn profile lists a total of 13 roles, including a stint on the Naval Shipbuilding Advisory Board, but nothing which indicates expertise on China or its military.

ASPI describes itself as “an independent, non-partisan think tank that produces expert and timely advice for Australia’s strategic and defence leaders”. It gets its primary funding from the Australian Defence Department (ADF) and other government agencies.

Also on Nine’s warmonger panel is Mick Ryan, a retired major general who served in the ADF for more than 35 years and was commander of the Australia Defence College. in the latter role he has been an occasional guest lecturer for, you know who, ASPI. He is the author of “War Transformed, the Future of Twenty-First-Century Great Power Competition and Conflict,” which provides insights for those involved in the design of military strategy, and the forces that must execute that strategy”.

Finally, there is Alan Finkel, best known for the “Finkel Review,” which dealt with Australia’s energy supply and the impacts of climate change. Well respected and with a diverse career in science and public service, Finkel’s Wikipedia entry is impressive, but again, nary a mention of any particular expertise on China, or warfare for that matter. His only ASPI connection was a seminar back in 2017 on “The challenge of energy resilience in Australia.”

So there we have it, the panel of “China experts” and their backers, who the editors and journalist are using to legitimise their calls for the inevitability of war with China; including the suggestion of nuclear armament with the help of the US and hinting at the need for reintroducing conscription. It is not just a scam, but a serious threat to Australia to have this level of dangerously biased reporting peddled in our mainstream media.

https://michaelwest.com.au/whats-the-scam-with-nines-panel-of-experts-red-alert-its-aspi/

Michael West is a nutter.

Can you provide us with some examples of his nutterishness?

MW was a business commentator at ‘The Australian’ for a decade a long time back so he has credentials. He has moved increasingly left these past few years though. I don’t know if I’d call him a nutter but hes certainly not a centrist these days.

And yes I didn’t answer your question. :-)

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2023 11:38:50
From: Ian
ID: 2005449
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

Much the same report on Crikey but I can’t get past the paywall.

And Here

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2023 12:00:17
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2005451
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

so is war good or bad

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2023 12:04:24
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 2005452
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

Witty Rejoinder said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Michael West is a nutter.

Can you provide us with some examples of his nutterishness?

MW was a business commentator at ‘The Australian’ for a decade a long time back so he has credentials. He has moved increasingly left these past few years though. I don’t know if I’d call him a nutter but hes certainly not a centrist these days.

And yes I didn’t answer your question. :-)

You did better than party_pants :)

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2023 12:07:12
From: party_pants
ID: 2005454
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

SCIENCE said:


so is war good or bad

War is always bad. This is why we work so hard to avoid it.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2023 12:07:16
From: Ian
ID: 2005455
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

Australia, moreover, is completely integrated into the US war machine, meaning its participation in a conflict with China would be automatic.

This integration is only deepening. Next week, Labor Prime Minister Albanese will stand alongside President Biden in San Diego, as they announce that Australia will purchase US nuclear-powered submarines. The Labor government has already permitted nuclear-capable American B-52 bombers to “rotate” through northern Australia, meaning American nuclear weapons may already be stationed here.

The primary target of the “Red alert” series is the population itself. Its authors write about the need to change Australian “psychology.” They know that their mad plans for war are deeply opposed by the vast mass of workers and young people.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2023 12:07:44
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2005456
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

For contect here are the articles in question:

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/we-do-not-want-war-but-australia-needs-to-be-ready-read-our-experts-verdict-in-full-20230302-p5coyi.html

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/australia-faces-the-threat-of-war-with-china-within-three-years-and-we-re-not-ready-20230221-p5cmag.html?

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/australia-has-an-urgent-security-problem-these-confronting-ideas-can-help-solve-it-20230303-p5cp9j.html

If you can’t break the paywall I can post the entire articles if need be. Generally Peter Harcher and Matthew Knott are centrist even handed journalists.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2023 12:09:32
From: sarahs mum
ID: 2005457
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

I like Michael West because of his investigative journalism. He slams it to the libs. But he doesn’t slam it to labour. So it is biased. Like Friendlyjordies.

Still my biases are a bit like that.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2023 12:19:04
From: party_pants
ID: 2005459
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

Ian said:


Australia, moreover, is completely integrated into the US war machine, meaning its participation in a conflict with China would be automatic.

This integration is only deepening. Next week, Labor Prime Minister Albanese will stand alongside President Biden in San Diego, as they announce that Australia will purchase US nuclear-powered submarines. The Labor government has already permitted nuclear-capable American B-52 bombers to “rotate” through northern Australia, meaning American nuclear weapons may already be stationed here.

The primary target of the “Red alert” series is the population itself. Its authors write about the need to change Australian “psychology.” They know that their mad plans for war are deeply opposed by the vast mass of workers and young people.

No. It is the other way around. Nobody in the west or the democratic parts of east Asia wants a war with China over Taiwan. Whether war happens or not is entirely up to China. Nobody is planning to start a war with China, only how to respond if China starts one.

War over Taiwan would be a disaster for China. They will end up being poor and deindustrialised in the aftermath. Probably suffer a massive famine too on a similar scale as Mao’s GLF. They have no incentive or opressing need to start one, except for nationalisitic bullshit.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2023 12:26:43
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2005463
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

Should Ukraine be allowed to administer Donbas¿

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2023 12:33:45
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2005470
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

If China’s foreign minister tells us war is inevitable, we should listen

Peter Hartcher
Political and international editor
March 11, 2023 — 5.00am

Who said this week that, on current trends, war between the US and China was inevitable? Was it the Red Alert series that ran in The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age? No, the five national security experts in that series said Australia should “sustain peace through deterrence”. Nor was it the US president, the Australian prime minister or even Peter Dutton.

It was China’s new Minister for Foreign Affairs, Qin Gang. Specifically, he told his first press conference: “If the US does not hit the brakes, and continues to speed down the wrong path, no amount of guardrails can prevent derailment, which will surely become conflict and confrontation, and who will bear the catastrophic consequences?”

His leader, President Xi Jinping, took the highly unusual step of naming and blaming the US directly, something he usually leaves to Chinese Communist Party (CCP)-owned media to do so he can appear above the fray. But this week he told the National People’s Congress: “Western countries, led by the US, are implementing all-round containment, encirclement and suppression against us,” according to the Xinhua news service.

Observed Kevin Rudd, soon to be Australia’s ambassador to Washington: “It was unusual, and it was blunt. In fact, I’ve been struggling for the last 24 hours to find a time when a Chinese paramount leader has attacked the US by name.” It represented “a hardening of China’s overall strategic posture towards the US”, said the world’s most prominent sinologist.

Not that Rudd agreed with the party’s attribution of blame. China’s navy is now the world’s biggest. “The strategic environment within East Asia and the West Pacific is changing because of that fact,” Rudd told the ABC’s 730.

As Japan’s Prime Minister, Kishida Fumio, put it last year: “I feel a strong sense of crisis that Ukraine may be East Asia tomorrow.”

Rudd said the response to China’s build-up “from the US, and by various US allies including Australia, has been somewhat late in coming, to be frank”.

He’s right. If we had listened to Xi earlier, we wouldn’t be in a frantic scramble today to assemble a credible deterrent. On taking power as general secretary of the CCP in 2012, Xi told his party’s leadership that he was “laying the foundation for a future where we will win the initiative and have the dominant position”.

Note the lack of a qualifier – Xi does not seek for China the “dominant position in Asia” or the “dominant position in the Indo-Pacific”. This speech was not released publicly by the party for six years, but since 2018 his intent has been plain – he seeks for China the dominant position in the world.

Is this realistic? It is indeed, according to the lead author of the 2018 US National Security Strategy. Only one country has the potential to dominate the US, Elbridge Colby told me last year. Only one country is amassing the power to be able to coerce the US economically, in turn positioning itself to be able to undermine its freedom and prosperity, he says: “The only plausible way that could happen is China and Asia. Asia is about half of global GDP, in fact, probably more than that pretty soon, and China is by far the most powerful other state in the international system. So, by deduction, our most important interest is denying China hegemony over Asia.”

Which is why Joe Biden says the US is “competing with China to win the 21st century”. The slow-dawning comprehension has spread worldwide so that even the European Union abandoned its unwary welcome to the CCP. The EU now classifies China as a “systemic rival promoting alternative models of governance”.

So, as Rudd says, the response may be slow in coming. But it is under way. As the Defence Minister, Richard Marles, told the House on Thursday: “It is difficult to overstate the step that, as a nation, we are about to take. Australia will become just the seventh country to have the ability to operate a nuclear-powered submarine. We have never operated a military capability at this level before.”

He’s talking about the AUKUS plan, of course, an agreement conceived under the Morrison government and due for formal announcement next Tuesday. And why has Australia never operated a military capability at this level before? Chiefly because Washington would not have considered giving it to us. Even if it had, past Australian governments would have baulked at the astronomical cost.

So why now? Because Washington and Canberra share a rising fear of China’s plans. The US wants more allied help to deter China from aggression. “We can’t do it by ourselves” any more, as the White House Indo-Pacific co-ordinator, Kurt Campbell, told me last year.

By sealing the AUKUS plan, Australia marks the moment when it chooses between two worlds. One is the world that China is building with its “alternative models of governance”, more colloquially known as dictatorship. The other is the world that tries to preserve as many of its present freedoms as possible.

Both worlds, of course, are imperfect. But in the current world, Australia gets to decide for itself how imperfect it will be, and which imperfections it will try to fix. We get to debate, to protest, to think, to decide for ourselves.

In the world that China is building, Xi decides for us. What would that look like for Australia? Beijing already has given us an early blueprint of some of its ideas – the infamous 14 grievances or demands.

Remember that, at the same time China imposed its trade bans on Australia a little over two years ago, a pair of its diplomats handed the list of 14 to Nine reporter Jonathan Kearsley in the Hyatt Hotel in Canberra in November 2020.

Don’t remember them all? A quick recap of the main ones. First was that Australia had to accept foreign investment on China’s terms, not ours. Second was that we had to accept Huawei to run our communications systems. Third was that Australia had to accept foreign interference by China. Fourth was to grant visas to anyone China chose. Fifth was to drop the call for a COVID inquiry. And so on, with the final two demanding self-censorship – number 13 was that Australian MPs stop criticising the CCP, and last was that the Australian media do the same.

In other words, it was a demand that Australia reshape its laws and its liberties to suit the comfort and convenience of the Chinese Communist Party.

When Albanese on Tuesday announces the plan for the US and UK to help Australia get eight nuclear-powered submarines, it will be the moment that gives concrete expression to Australia’s choice.

Asked last year whether Australia had to choose between the US and China, Albanese answered “we’ve already chosen”. We’d made the decision in 1951, he said, when Australia signed the ANZUS treaty.

It’s true that it was the moment Australia and the US became allies. But no treaty is any stronger than the political will of its signatories. New Zealand effectively pulled out of the treaty in the 1980s over US nuclear ship visits. NZ has yet to make its real choice between China and the US.

For Australia, the contemporary choice will be next week when Albanese Labor commits Australia irrevocably to the Morrison Coalition proposal for AUKUS. It will not be a partisan policy. It will be a national decision.

Until now, Australia has resembled the proverbial frog in the pot as the water temperature rises. Like dozens of other countries, Australia has been under attack by Beijing’s undeclared “grey zone” warfare.

This brilliant strategy has used economic weight, elite capture through favours to members of the political class, cyberattack, political pressure and economic coercion to undermine national power and resolve around the world, making countries more pliable to Beijing’s influence.

If China’s foreign affairs minister tells us plainly that war is inevitable, we should take him seriously.

Australia, in what Marles this week called “a bipartisan moment of huge significance to our country”, has chosen the world it wants to live in and is prepared to defend. And is preparing accordingly.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/if-china-s-foreign-minister-tells-us-war-is-inevitable-we-should-listen-20230309-p5cqqa.html

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2023 12:34:48
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2005472
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

so what we’re saying is

something something

balance of power

something

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2023 12:38:45
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2005476
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

Another perspective:

We won’t be at war with China in three years, in fact we may never be

David Livingstone
Former diplomat

March 10, 2023 — 11.30am

Breathless exhortations for war carry an understandable, and lamentable, sense of deja vu. What do the failed and misguided wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and Vietnam have in common? The flawed argument by commentators and the defence community of Australia’s security being vitally at stake.

That is three out of three wrong. One hundred per cent failure. They were wars of choice dressed as wars necessary to counter a grave national threat. It sounds too familiar now.

The current argument preparing Australia for war with China has the same rationale. That does not necessarily make the argument wrong, but it is prudent to be sceptical and dig deeply into the claimed justification, especially when it cites Australia’s “really difficult neighbourhood”. Indonesia, Papua New Guinea and New Zealand are our friendly and decent neighbours. You have to travel a long way to encounter difficulties.

It is easy to feel anxious over the prospect of war within three years. But three years seems like just a guess, and not a particularly good one. It is premised on a view that China has an advantage, but the window is closing, in part through an ageing population, leading China to launch a war sooner rather than later. But that is a narrow, selective, view.

Other views are more plausible. According to the Australian Strategic Policy Institute’s recent report, China is the global leader in 37 of 44 critical technologies, many of them with significant monopoly potential.

ASPI further noted that, “for some technologies, all of the world’s top 10 leading research institutions are based in China and are collectively generating nine times more high-impact research papers than the second-ranked country (most often the US)”.

This is not a niche or marginal issue. It goes to the very balance of power between the US and China, which defence analysts have predicted “will be determined by who is first to develop the most sophisticated artificial intelligence infused unmanned capabilities”.

That does not sound like a window closing. Perhaps rather than rushing into war, China can afford to wait.

But the best indicator of if and when China attacks Taiwan may be Taiwan itself. The signal to watch is not the noise of political competition, with the current government of the Democratic Progressive Party positioning for an election next year against the more China-friendly Kuomintang. Rather, the vital indicator is the urgency or otherwise of Taiwan’s military preparations for a war with China. Currently, Taiwan is not acting as if war is likely within three years.

And Taiwan is extremely well-placed to make that assessment, given that it probably has the world’s best human intelligence network in China. That network is so effective, Beijing periodically publicly complains about it.

In a rare public insight into Taiwan’s intel capability in China, it was reported that it was Taiwan that first advised the World Health Organisation, as early as December 31, 2019, that COVID-19 was being transmitted human to human. It has been further claimed that Taipei was concerned about China’s provincial authorities keeping this information from Beijing, so Taipei quietly passed that information on to its contacts in Beijing.

Taipei having better information than Beijing on developments in Wuhan would be extraordinary if true. It is hard to tell, but it is worth noting that Taiwan fared better than the rest of the world in dealing with COVID-19, perhaps because it did indeed have very decent information.

Not only is the suggested timeline questionable, but war between China and Taiwan is not inevitable. There are many reasons for this.

The example of Ukraine shows not just how difficult it is to seize and hold ground in an environment of constantly improving defensive technologies, but also how the West responds in concert to economically punish an aggressor. And China’s economy is remarkably dependent on trade, especially seaborne energy and resources.

In a war over Taiwan, trade to China’s ports would stop. Not only are the US and Japan capable of blockading China at the first island chain, insurance premiums alone would stop ships entering the South China Sea.

The potential cost to China of war across the Taiwan Strait is so great that in most scenarios it would threaten the continued rule of the Chinese Communist Party. The CCP, no doubt capable of launching such a war, will think carefully before doing so, knowing it is a do-or-die roll of the dice not just for Taiwan, but for itself.

Perhaps less darkly, even the prospect of conflict could be greatly reduced by Taiwan’s presidential election scheduled for early 2024.

The incumbent, Tsai Ing-wen, cannot run again. While the candidates are yet to be determined, the contest will be between the current governing party – the Democratic Progressive Party – and the Kuomintang (KMT), which, surprisingly given it is the party that fought the civil war against the CCP, generally works positively with Beijing. In fact, Ma Ying-jeou, a former KMT president of Taiwan, said, “there will be no battlefield across the Taiwan Strait” if the KMT wins power.

What, if any, role Australia should be planning to play in a potential clash across the Taiwan Strait, and the equipment needed to participate, are further questions.

However, it is worth noting that Taiwan’s foreign minister has said Taiwan will not ask Australia to help defend Taiwan if it is attacked. Australia can ignore that if it chooses, but it adds another intellectual hurdle to the push to structure the ADF to fight thousands of kilometres from home for a war-cry that has proved to be so consistently, and so tragically, wrong.

https://www.theage.com.au/world/asia/we-won-t-be-at-war-with-china-in-three-years-in-fact-we-may-never-be-20230309-p5cqqc.html

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2023 14:34:31
From: dv
ID: 2005499
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

Might just be the day drinking but I read that as Nine’s Red Planet Experts

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2023 14:36:33
From: Bubblecar
ID: 2005501
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

dv said:


Might just be the day drinking but I read that as Nine’s Red Planet Experts

Cheers.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2023 14:43:55
From: party_pants
ID: 2005503
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

dv said:


Might just be the day drinking but I read that as Nine’s Red Planet Experts

Word of the day: kalsarikännit

A Finnish word meaning to get drunk at hole while dressed in your underwear.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2023 14:44:18
From: party_pants
ID: 2005505
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

party_pants said:


dv said:

Might just be the day drinking but I read that as Nine’s Red Planet Experts

Word of the day: kalsarikännit

A Finnish word meaning to get drunk at hole while dressed in your underwear.

home

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2023 14:48:01
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2005506
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

party_pants said:


party_pants said:

dv said:

Might just be the day drinking but I read that as Nine’s Red Planet Experts

Word of the day: kalsarikännit

A Finnish word meaning to get drunk at hole while dressed in your underwear.

home

Great.

What am i supposed to do with this hole now?

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2023 14:54:30
From: Ian
ID: 2005507
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

party_pants said:


party_pants said:

Word of the day: kalsarikännit

A Finnish word meaning to get drunk at hole while dressed in your underwear.

home

Crazy Finns. They’re too pantsdrunk to even pronounce kalsarikännit..

https://toolbox.finland.fi/life-society/kalsarikannit-video/

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2023 14:57:44
From: party_pants
ID: 2005508
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

captain_spalding said:


party_pants said:

party_pants said:

Word of the day: kalsarikännit

A Finnish word meaning to get drunk at hole while dressed in your underwear.

home

Great.

What am i supposed to do with this hole now?

You can use it to dispose of the empty bottles.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2023 15:02:59
From: Kothos
ID: 2005511
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

party_pants said:


They have no incentive or opressing need to start one, except for nationalisitic bullshit.

There’s always a good reason to start a war. For example China’s economy is always on the brink of collapse due to their growing too fast and population shrinking. A war would distract the people from having a revolution.

Reply Quote

Date: 13/03/2023 20:43:54
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2006353
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

They should have asked me, I could have given them.a fairly realistic scenario of what would happen in the first few days.

The nuclear sub secrets will get stolen and sent to China.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/03/2023 10:57:13
From: Ian
ID: 2006484
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

We got more alarming predictions from Jennings:

Within 72 hours of a conflict breaking out over Taiwan, Chinese missile bombardments and devastating cyberattacks on Australia would begin. For the first time since World War II, the mainland would be under attack.

- The Age, 8 March, 2023

So who is Jennings? 

He’s a former defence official in Canberra, who for a decade ran the Australian Strategic Policy Institute — or ASPI — which is funded by the Department of Defence, the US State Department and a bevy of international arms suppliers. 

And he’s long been crying wolf on China, as Sky’s Andrew Clennell was quick to point out:

ANDREW CLENNELL: We awoke this morning to warnings in the Nine newspapers that we’re about to be invaded by China. Well, the trouble is one of the experts quoted said three years ago there would be a war in six months. 

PETER JENNINGS: Can this lead to war? Well, I think there are a couple of flashpoints in the region, in the South China Sea and Taiwan, which give rise to serious concerns about the prospect for military conflict in months, right? Not years but in months.

- Afternoon Agenda, Sky News Australia, 7 March, 2023

Jennings also told the Nine papers confidently last year — amid concerns about a security deal between China and the Solomon Islands – that ‘Chinese ships and aircraft were likely to arrive in the Solomons within weeks because the deal would “absolutely” lead to a military base.’

So, when Nine picked Jennings for the panel, they knew what they were getting. 

And they did not pick anyone who disagreed. 

As Dr Bec Strating, Director of La Trobe Asia, told Media Watch: 

It’s a shame the journalists didn’t bother to seek out comment from experts with deep knowledge of either China or Taiwan. While the experts cover off different fields of knowledge, they are all running the same basic line about the threat China poses to Australia. 

- Email, Dr Bec Strating, Director, La Trobe Asia, 9 March, 2023

And foreign relations expert Professor James Curran told Sky, while we certainly should be worried about China’s sabre rattling, the panel’s conclusions were scaremongering:

JAMES CURRAN: … what does this group of experts know that most of the western intelligence community does not? As I say, it is of course prudent to prepare for the worst. But we’re having this kind of talk of Armageddon, with all the visual imagery from the late 19th century, that frankly makes some of the Cold War imagery look rather quaint.

- NewsDay, Sky News Australia, 8 March, 2023

Day three of Nine’s Red Alert focused on what Australia should do to prepare for war. 

With the panel suggesting we double our defence spending from 40 to 80 billion dollars a year, consider hosting US nuclear missiles on Australian soil, and bring back conscription.

https://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/episodes/china/102090318

Reply Quote

Date: 16/03/2023 12:50:42
From: Ian
ID: 2007577
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

Allan Gyngell, adjunct professor of public policy at the ANU Crawford School and a former director general of the Australian Office of National Assessments, is also scathing of Red Alert.

He says: “The idea that you can address an issue as complex as the country’s preparation for war by self-selecting people, none of whom had a specialist background in either China or foreign policy, and then distilling their comments into a pretentious joint communique is ridiculous.”

Some of the individual quotes from the panel were accurate, he says “but it was fluffed up and splashed across the front page. It wasn’t journalism. It was propaganda in the formal sense – that is the systematic propagation of a given doctrine rather than a search for a complex truth.”

And the doctrine he detects?

“That there is a great and imminent threat to Australia from the Chinese government and that the only way to respond to this is militarily and the only way for Australia to respond militarily is by working closely with the United States.”

Anybody who thinks that there is one track to the future doesn’t know the history

Allan Behm

The director of the Australia-China Relations Institute at the University of Technology Sydney, Prof James Laurenceson says he wouldn’t rule out the possibility of “influence operations”, “given the strident and uncritical messaging”, but he adds that stands alongside other possibilities “such as crude commercial motivations and racist pandering” by the papers. “And, of course, it could be a combination of all three.”

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/mar/16/pretentious-hyperbolic-and-irresponsible-what-was-behind-nine-newspapers-red-alert-series

Reply Quote

Date: 17/03/2023 20:06:32
From: Ian
ID: 2008329
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

The Sydney Morning Herald and the Age are seething about the widespread criticism which followed publication in the Nine newspapers of the Red Alert series, in which an expert panel asserted Australia faced “the threat of war with China within three years”.

So passionate is the leadership of the Nine papers about the importance of Red Alert that they have referred to it in the newsroom as akin to “Churchill taking on the Nazis”, sources told Weekly Beast.

On day one of publication, Paul Keating said the series was “the most egregious and provocative news presentation of any newspaper I have witnessed in over 50 years of active public life”. On Monday on Media Watch, Paul Barry criticised the “comic-book sketch of jets flying out of red China to bomb Australia” and said the series presented “no contrary view and no shading of the possibilities”.

Even Channel Nine political correspondent, Chris O’Keefe, in a welcome sign of independence from the publishing arm of the media giant on the Today show, called the reporting “hysterical”. There wasn’t much social media support from Nine colleagues either.

It was not the reaction the executive editor of the Herald and the Age, Tory Maguire, expected when the three-part special was published across the mastheads last week. Maguire had predicted that the “landmark new investigation” would “resonate right through Australia’s highest levels of decision making”. We can assume she wasn’t expecting the former prime minister to call her international editor, Peter Hartcher, a variety of colourful names, including a “psychopath” and a “maniac”.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/commentisfree/2023/mar/17/we-shall-fight-them-on-our-pages-nine-newspapers-invoke-churchill-to-defend-its-red-alert-series

Reply Quote

Date: 17/03/2023 20:15:41
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2008331
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

Ian said:

akin to “Churchill taking on the Nazis”, sources told

https://www.theguardian.com/media/commentisfree/2023/mar/17/we-shall-fight-them-on-our-pages-nine-newspapers-invoke-churchill-to-defend-its-red-alert-series

fknel

aye, Ronnie really is dead

Reply Quote

Date: 17/03/2023 20:30:11
From: Ian
ID: 2008337
Subject: re: Nine's “Panel of Experts” Red Alert series

Ronnie?

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