One of the factors contributing to the ascendency of mankind over the animals was the discovery of food processing.

While baking is an ancient food processing technique that has had the most attention. (Mankind’s use of fire). There is also leaching. Placing food in water for a fortnight to allow poisons to seep out, leaving food that is eminently edible.

I’ve noticed recently that the exact same technique of leaching is used to make all three of these edible:

• Olives
• Acorns
• Taro

Which makes me wonder when leaching as a food processing technique was discovered?
Before or after the separation of Aborigines from the rest of mankind?

I don’t know when steeping, brine-curing etc were invented but

“Before or after the separation of Aborigines from the rest of mankind?”

just wanted to say that didn’t occur. Cultural exchange occurred often throughout the period where Australia was peopled, in took technology and food preparation etc. This might seem a minor point but subtle decisions in phrasing can give erroneous impressions.

So we can just proceed on the basis that what you meant was “since the peopling of Australia”.

mollwollfumble said:

One of the factors contributing to the ascendency of mankind over the animals was the discovery of food processing.

While baking is an ancient food processing technique that has had the most attention. (Mankind’s use of fire). There is also leaching. Placing food in water for a fortnight to allow poisons to seep out, leaving food that is eminently edible.

I’ve noticed recently that the exact same technique of leaching is used to make all three of these edible:

• Olives
• Acorns
• Taro

Which makes me wonder when leaching as a food processing technique was discovered?
Before or after the separation of Aborigines from the rest of mankind?

The leeching of foods is not uncommon amongst indigenous cultures and has been practiced for many thousands of years. In Australia a large food source that was readily available was the fruit from cycads, however when eaten untreated they are poisonous and can kill those that eat it. But Aborigines developed a treatment that included long periods of leeching to make it into a plentiful nourishing food.

I’d imagine soaking things in water was a lot easier to invent that cooking with fire. All it requires is a puddle, after all.

So it could probably easily have been invented on multiple occasions.

I know from my own experience dolmades require that the leaves be soaked for several days to break down the fibres and make them digestible. Less time if the water is simmering but cold water for an extended time will do. I don’t think they’re poisonous to begin with though.

dv said:

I don’t know when steeping, brine-curing etc were invented but

“Before or after the separation of Aborigines from the rest of mankind?”

just wanted to say that didn’t occur. Cultural exchange occurred often throughout the period where Australia was peopled, in took technology and food preparation etc. This might seem a minor point but subtle decisions in phrasing can give erroneous impressions.

So we can just proceed on the basis that what you meant was “since the peopling of Australia”.

> Cultural exchange occurred often throughout the period where Australia was peopled, in took technology and food preparation etc. This might seem a minor point but subtle decisions in phrasing can give erroneous impressions.

I happen to know a little about this.

Take fish hooks for example. Fish hooks were invented outside Australia after the peopling of the continent and made their way into Northern Australia by cultural exchange. But never made their way to the south of the continent. There are half a dozen other examples. Trading doesn’t automatically mean transfer of hunting technology.

mollwollfumble said:

I happen to know a little about this.

Take fish hooks for example. Fish hooks were invented outside Australia after the peopling of the continent and made their way into Northern Australia by cultural exchange. But never made their way to the south of the continent. There are half a dozen other examples. Trading doesn’t automatically mean transfer of hunting technology.

“The completed hook on the far right is typical of shellfish hooks found along the eastern Australian coast between Port Stephens in the north and the NSW-Victorian border in the south, which first appear in the archaeological record 900 years ago. It is speculated that fishhooks were independently invented in the region at this time or were introduced to the area either from the north coast of Australia or by Polynesians from the east.”

https://australian.museum/learn/cultures/atsi-collection/cultural-objects/shellfish-hooks/

https://austhrutime.com/food_preparation_poison.htm

The processing of macrozamia has apparently been known of since at least the late Pleistocene, evidence of processing having been found at a number of archaeological sites. Among the sites where evidence of exploitation of Macrozamia has been found are the Carnarvon Ranges, dated to 4000 years ago, Native Well I and II, dated to 10,000 years ago, Jiyer Cave in the north Queensland rainforest, dated to about 4000 years ago.

Evidence has been found at Cheetup Shelter, near Esperance in Western Australia, that cycad seeds were being detoxified in pits lined with grass-tree leaves in the Late Pleistocene. It has been suggested that the process of detoxifying the seeds may have developed independently in a number of areas, based on the fact that more than 1 process was used.

In the Blue Mountains area, at sites such as Noola and Capertree III, there was an increase in use from between 3000 and 4000 years ago, associated with the use of cycad seeds and the small tool tradition. The same is seen in the Carnarvon Ranges. At both places occupation occurred on a lower level prior to this time, possibly even intermittently.

Science Principles in Traditional Aboriginal Australia

Transforming the inedible to the edible

Baskets and traps were made with a very specific purpose in mind. For example, in north Queensland, bi-cornual baskets were made using a special design weave that allowed baskets to sit in running water to soak seeds for several days to remove toxins and make them safe to eat. This allowed people to eat a much wider variety of foods, including to prepare flours to cook with, that would otherwise have been poisonous. The bicornual basket also has an ergonomical design, made to fit securely and comfortably on the back whilst the handle part is hung from the forehead. From this position, the basket user could carry a controlled weight easily while having their hands free.
Indigenous knowledge

roughbarked said:

Baskets and traps were made with a very specific purpose in mind. For example, in north Queensland, bi-cornual baskets were made using a special design weave that allowed baskets to sit in running water to soak seeds for several days to remove toxins and make them safe to eat. This allowed people to eat a much wider variety of foods, including to prepare flours to cook with, that would otherwise have been poisonous. The bicornual basket also has an ergonomical design, made to fit securely and comfortably on the back whilst the handle part is hung from the forehead. From this position, the basket user could carry a controlled weight easily while having their hands free.
Indigenous knowledge

You have been busy digging out all that info rb. All very interesting, thanks. Might comment on some parts tomorrow.

PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

Baskets and traps were made with a very specific purpose in mind. For example, in north Queensland, bi-cornual baskets were made using a special design weave that allowed baskets to sit in running water to soak seeds for several days to remove toxins and make them safe to eat. This allowed people to eat a much wider variety of foods, including to prepare flours to cook with, that would otherwise have been poisonous. The bicornual basket also has an ergonomical design, made to fit securely and comfortably on the back whilst the handle part is hung from the forehead. From this position, the basket user could carry a controlled weight easily while having their hands free.
Indigenous knowledge

You have been busy digging out all that info rb. All very interesting, thanks. Might comment on some parts tomorrow.

Enjoy. :)

Solubility Equilibria in Indigenous Culture

Resetting the narrative

I suppose it matters that people knew how to manage their water

roughbarked said:

Science Principles in Traditional Aboriginal Australia

Rb I see there is an Ooyurka stone in there along with its use. Haven’t you got one of those and was trying to find out their purpose?

roughbarked said:

https://austhrutime.com/food_preparation_poison.htm

The processing of macrozamia has apparently been known of since at least the late Pleistocene, evidence of processing having been found at a number of archaeological sites. Among the sites where evidence of exploitation of Macrozamia has been found are the Carnarvon Ranges, dated to 4000 years ago, Native Well I and II, dated to 10,000 years ago, Jiyer Cave in the north Queensland rainforest, dated to about 4000 years ago.

Evidence has been found at Cheetup Shelter, near Esperance in Western Australia, that cycad seeds were being detoxified in pits lined with grass-tree leaves in the Late Pleistocene. It has been suggested that the process of detoxifying the seeds may have developed independently in a number of areas, based on the fact that more than 1 process was used.

In the Blue Mountains area, at sites such as Noola and Capertree III, there was an increase in use from between 3000 and 4000 years ago, associated with the use of cycad seeds and the small tool tradition. The same is seen in the Carnarvon Ranges. At both places occupation occurred on a lower level prior to this time, possibly even intermittently.

The Cheetup Shelter is not far from me and is sited near the top of a large granite outcrop. It is quite large with two entrances and a sandy floor with great views over the surrounding area. Difficult to reach as there are no tracks and its bush bashing all the way (or at least it was when I went there).

Cycads are locally not uncommon around the many granite outcrops and in one location virtually next door to me, is a low rocky outcrop with many large granite boulders forming a basin in which are numerous cycads. It is likely that this area made an ideal place to regularly burn the cycads in order to stimulate fruiting and so have easy and prolonged access to them. There are lots of Aboriginal relics in the area too, like standing stones, tool making areas, lizard traps, a stone map of Stockyard Creek, plus other artifacts.

From another reference of the Cheetup Shelter:

Although an excellent source of nutrition, cycad seeds are extremely toxic and require careful preparation before they can be consumed. It was previously thought that the knowledge associated with the detoxification of the cycad seed was held by Aboriginal people living in the mid-Holocene, approximately 4,300 years ago. The evidence at Cheetup rock shelter demonstrates that this knowledge was applied by Aboriginal people much earlier during the Pleistocene, approximately 13,200 years before present. It is only at exceptional sites like Cheetup rock shelter that the detail of this technical achievement has been so well preserved in the archaeological record.

Aboriginal people used a number of techniques to remove the toxins from the cycad seeds including leaching, fermentation, roasting and aging. An early account describes the method used to detoxify the seeds:

https://www.dcceew.gov.au/parks-heritage/heritage/places/national/cheetup

PermeateFree said:

roughbarked said:

Science Principles in Traditional Aboriginal Australia

Rb I see there is an Ooyurka stone in there along with its use. Haven’t you got one of those and was trying to find out their purpose?

Yes I do and I also disagree that they used it to make the groove in axe heads.