I just saw two bi-planes take off right next to each other from Bankstown airport.
I thought that kind of thing wouldn’t be allowed for safety reasons.
Or am I mis-interpreting the situation?
I haven’t been in the trade for well over a decade now but I think things like that are fairly normal for a training airport like that.
Huh, interesting.
It’s also pretty normal at Sydney Airport as well, on the north/south runways though I believe they stagger the planes by a small distance so not exactly in parallel.
Spiny Norman said:
It’s also pretty normal at Sydney Airport as well, on the north/south runways though I believe they stagger the planes by a small distance so not exactly in parallel.
Is it only for training purposes or some sort of efficiency?
Kothos said:
Spiny Norman said:
It’s also pretty normal at Sydney Airport as well, on the north/south runways though I believe they stagger the planes by a small distance so not exactly in parallel.
Is it only for training purposes or some sort of efficiency?
For Sydney it’s to get as much traffic through as possible. They can make more money that way.
I remember one flight I did into Sydney and they were trialling letting the inbound plane land whilst the other plane taking-off on the same runway was just about to lift off.
I found it very distracting as I was flaring for the touchdown and the other plane was leaving the ground in the distance. Did not like it at all.
Spiny Norman said:
Kothos said:
Spiny Norman said:
It’s also pretty normal at Sydney Airport as well, on the north/south runways though I believe they stagger the planes by a small distance so not exactly in parallel.
Is it only for training purposes or some sort of efficiency?
For Sydney it’s to get as much traffic through as possible. They can make more money that way.
I remember one flight I did into Sydney and they were trialling letting the inbound plane land whilst the other plane taking-off on the same runway was just about to lift off.
I found it very distracting as I was flaring for the touchdown and the other plane was leaving the ground in the distance. Did not like it at all.
This 1964 film ‘The Strafighters’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH7yg5oeluo
shows two F-104 Starfighters taking off side by side in it’s opening scene.
Don’t bother with the rest ofthe film, it’s as boring as potato soup without potatoes. Vast stretches of film with gabbling heads and in-flight re-fuelling. So much in-flight re-fuelling. An obsession with in-flight re-fuelling.
While i was hanging out the laundry, i recalled reading an interview with a former F-104 pilot a long time ago.
‘What was a typical Starfighter mission like?’
‘Well, first we’d fuel up, and then take off. Then we’d make the first tanker rendezvous and re-fuel. That’d give us the fuel to get to the second tanker rendezvous so we could re-fuel. Then we’d turn around and make the third tanker rendezvous, and re-fuel. That’d get us back to the base, where we could re-fuel.’
captain_spalding said:
While i was hanging out the laundry, i recalled reading an interview with a former F-104 pilot a long time ago.‘What was a typical Starfighter mission like?’
‘Well, first we’d fuel up, and then take off. Then we’d make the first tanker rendezvous and re-fuel. That’d give us the fuel to get to the second tanker rendezvous so we could re-fuel. Then we’d turn around and make the third tanker rendezvous, and re-fuel. That’d get us back to the base, where we could re-fuel.’
Sounds all too familiar.
Spiny Norman said:
captain_spalding said:
While i was hanging out the laundry, i recalled reading an interview with a former F-104 pilot a long time ago.‘What was a typical Starfighter mission like?’
‘Well, first we’d fuel up, and then take off. Then we’d make the first tanker rendezvous and re-fuel. That’d give us the fuel to get to the second tanker rendezvous so we could re-fuel. Then we’d turn around and make the third tanker rendezvous, and re-fuel. That’d get us back to the base, where we could re-fuel.’
Sounds all too familiar.
No easy way around that I suppose unless you can have nuclear powered jets, which wouldn’t be a fantastic idea
captain_spalding said:
While i was hanging out the laundry, i recalled reading an interview with a former F-104 pilot a long time ago.‘What was a typical Starfighter mission like?’
‘Well, first we’d fuel up, and then take off. Then we’d make the first tanker rendezvous and re-fuel. That’d give us the fuel to get to the second tanker rendezvous so we could re-fuel. Then we’d turn around and make the third tanker rendezvous, and re-fuel. That’d get us back to the base, where we could re-fuel.’
Cymek said:
No easy way around that I suppose unless you can have nuclear powered jets, which wouldn’t be a fantastic idea
Already been done.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pluto
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_Nuclear_Propulsion
Kothos said:
I just saw two bi-planes take off right next to each other from Bankstown airport.
I thought that kind of thing wouldn’t be allowed for safety reasons.
Or am I mis-interpreting the situation?
On the same runway or on parallel runways?
Same runway, I guess they are doing training for formation take-off and flying.
Parallel runways it’s likely that one runway is being used for circuit training and the other for arrivals and departures. In this case the circuits will go in opposite directions (ie one will be a left hand circuit, the other a right hand circuit) which maintains separation between traffic on the parallel runways. Two aircraft landing or taking off in this configuration is very common at airports where a lot of training is done.
Spiny Norman said:
Cymek said:No easy way around that I suppose unless you can have nuclear powered jets, which wouldn’t be a fantastic idea
Already been done.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pluto
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_Nuclear_Propulsion
Yes I remember reading about that, was a while ago wasn’t it.
Tamb said:
captain_spalding said:
While i was hanging out the laundry, i recalled reading an interview with a former F-104 pilot a long time ago.‘What was a typical Starfighter mission like?’
‘Well, first we’d fuel up, and then take off. Then we’d make the first tanker rendezvous and re-fuel. That’d give us the fuel to get to the second tanker rendezvous so we could re-fuel. Then we’d turn around and make the third tanker rendezvous, and re-fuel. That’d get us back to the base, where we could re-fuel.’
It is said that F-104s killed more German pilots in the Cold War than the RAF did in WWII.
More like 0.1% to maybe 1% as many. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/tragic-reason-why-germany-hated-its-f-104-starfighters-68742
Spiny Norman said:
Cymek said:No easy way around that I suppose unless you can have nuclear powered jets, which wouldn’t be a fantastic idea
Already been done.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pluto
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_Nuclear_Propulsion
Wasn’t Project Pluto that cruise missile thing that spewed radioactive exhaust every where and flew low at like Mach 3 or 4 so that the pressure wave would flatten buildings it passed over (not its intent, just a little bonus effect)?
The Americans had a B-36 bomber with a nuclear reactor aboard. Didn’t do anything, it just sat there reacting, not powering anything. The cockpit area was so heavily shielded that it was likened to ‘flying a submarine’.
esselte said:
Kothos said:I just saw two bi-planes take off right next to each other from Bankstown airport.
I thought that kind of thing wouldn’t be allowed for safety reasons.
Or am I mis-interpreting the situation?
On the same runway or on parallel runways?
Same runway, I guess they are doing training for formation take-off and flying.
Parallel runways it’s likely that one runway is being used for circuit training and the other for arrivals and departures. In this case the circuits will go in opposite directions (ie one will be a left hand circuit, the other a right hand circuit) which maintains separation between traffic on the parallel runways. Two aircraft landing or taking off in this configuration is very common at airports where a lot of training is done.
Ah! I assumed that Kothos mean one on each of the parallel runways there. Two on the same runway is unusual, but can be done with appropriate paperwork & aircraft.
captain_spalding said:
Wasn’t Project Pluto that cruise missile thing that spewed radioactive exhaust every where and flew low at like Mach 3 or 4 so that the pressure wave would flatten buildings it passed over (not its intent, just a little bonus effect)?
I’m not sure if it was that particular project but they certainly looked into one just like that. No need for weapons, just fly over enemy territory low at very high speed so the intense shockwaves destroy many things and a lovely dusting of hard radiation as well.
Spiny Norman said:
captain_spalding said:Wasn’t Project Pluto that cruise missile thing that spewed radioactive exhaust every where and flew low at like Mach 3 or 4 so that the pressure wave would flatten buildings it passed over (not its intent, just a little bonus effect)?
I’m not sure if it was that particular project but they certainly looked into one just like that. No need for weapons, just fly over enemy territory low at very high speed so the intense shockwaves destroy many things and a lovely dusting of hard radiation as well.
It was supposed to be able to cruise around the world with its nuclear warhead for weeks at a time, the ultimate untrackable/unlocatable deterrent. It would, in the fullness oftime andat the appropriate juncture, proceed to its target and detonate. Until then, it just buzzed about spreading democracy.
captain_spalding said:
Spiny Norman said:
Cymek said:No easy way around that I suppose unless you can have nuclear powered jets, which wouldn’t be a fantastic idea
Already been done.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pluto
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_Nuclear_PropulsionWasn’t Project Pluto that cruise missile thing that spewed radioactive exhaust every where and flew low at like Mach 3 or 4 so that the pressure wave would flatten buildings it passed over (not its intent, just a little bonus effect)?
The Americans had a B-36 bomber with a nuclear reactor aboard. Didn’t do anything, it just sat there reacting, not powering anything. The cockpit area was so heavily shielded that it was likened to ‘flying a submarine’.
Spiny Norman said:
esselte said:
Kothos said:I just saw two bi-planes take off right next to each other from Bankstown airport.
I thought that kind of thing wouldn’t be allowed for safety reasons.
Or am I mis-interpreting the situation?
On the same runway or on parallel runways?
Same runway, I guess they are doing training for formation take-off and flying.
Parallel runways it’s likely that one runway is being used for circuit training and the other for arrivals and departures. In this case the circuits will go in opposite directions (ie one will be a left hand circuit, the other a right hand circuit) which maintains separation between traffic on the parallel runways. Two aircraft landing or taking off in this configuration is very common at airports where a lot of training is done.
Ah! I assumed that Kothos mean one on each of the parallel runways there. Two on the same runway is unusual, but can be done with appropriate paperwork & aircraft.
My other fave EE Lightning video. :)
Tamb said:
Spiny Norman said:
esselte said:On the same runway or on parallel runways?
Same runway, I guess they are doing training for formation take-off and flying.
Parallel runways it’s likely that one runway is being used for circuit training and the other for arrivals and departures. In this case the circuits will go in opposite directions (ie one will be a left hand circuit, the other a right hand circuit) which maintains separation between traffic on the parallel runways. Two aircraft landing or taking off in this configuration is very common at airports where a lot of training is done.
Ah! I assumed that Kothos mean one on each of the parallel runways there. Two on the same runway is unusual, but can be done with appropriate paperwork & aircraft.
The WWI era biplanes were designed to take off from grass airfields & often did so in tandem.
Even later. There’s videos about of two or more Spitifires making simulatnaeous takeoffs from grassed areas to go up and give Jerry something to think about.
TIPS FOR FLYING AT BANKSTOWN
https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/wp-content/uploads/17-0093-FAC_Tips-for-flying-at-Bankstown.pdf
PARALLEL RUNWAYS
Up to three aircraft can be side by side on final and upwind for different runways at Bankstown at the same time. Ensure that you do not drift from, or pass through your Upwind or Final leg as there could be another aircraft abeam you.
captain_spalding said:
Spiny Norman said:
Kothos said:Is it only for training purposes or some sort of efficiency?
For Sydney it’s to get as much traffic through as possible. They can make more money that way.
I remember one flight I did into Sydney and they were trialling letting the inbound plane land whilst the other plane taking-off on the same runway was just about to lift off.
I found it very distracting as I was flaring for the touchdown and the other plane was leaving the ground in the distance. Did not like it at all.
This 1964 film ‘The Strafighters’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH7yg5oeluo
shows two F-104 Starfighters taking off side by side in it’s opening scene.
These two were almost touching wing-tips. (I mean they could have been 50m apart for all I know, I’m a couple of kilometers away). But they certainly had nearly the same altitude.
esselte said:
Kothos said:I just saw two bi-planes take off right next to each other from Bankstown airport.
I thought that kind of thing wouldn’t be allowed for safety reasons.
Or am I mis-interpreting the situation?
On the same runway or on parallel runways?
I didn’t see the runway part but I know they were taking off since I’m familiar with the take-off and landing paths now as they are right outside my classroom. They were almost wing-tip to wing-tip.
Kothos said:
esselte said:
Kothos said:I just saw two bi-planes take off right next to each other from Bankstown airport.
I thought that kind of thing wouldn’t be allowed for safety reasons.
Or am I mis-interpreting the situation?
On the same runway or on parallel runways?
I didn’t see the runway part but I know they were taking off since I’m familiar with the take-off and landing paths now as they are right outside my classroom. They were almost wing-tip to wing-tip.
Maybe these guys bought a second Pitts Special.
Red Baron Top Gun Experience
https://www.redbaron.com.au/air-combat-experience-harbour-beaches
Upon your arrival at Red Baron HQ, Bankstown, you will both be suited in a flight-suit and prepared to board. Once your pre-flight briefing is complete your pilots will strap you securely into the cockpits and fasten your headset. There will be plenty of time for your family and friends to take photographs of you as you prepare for your flight.
You and your wingman will take off side by side in formation and head out for the ultimate experience. You’ll be able to hear all the calls to air traffic control as well as speak to your pilot through the intercom.
Once airborne you’ll and your wingman will head towards the outer suburbs of Sydney to reach a cruising altitude of 1500ft. You’ll soar over the sprawling Olympic site at Homebush Bay then over the north-western suburbs of Hornsby and St Ives. Once granted clearance to Sydney Harbour you’ll tour the city, taking in a bird’s eye view of iconic landmarks like the Sydney Opera House and Harbour Bridge. You can wave at the Prime Minister at Kirribilli, fly higher than the eagles at Taronga Park Zoo and salute the sailors on Garden Island. You and your wingman will have the best seats in the house for the best view in the world.
esselte said:
Kothos said:
esselte said:On the same runway or on parallel runways?
I didn’t see the runway part but I know they were taking off since I’m familiar with the take-off and landing paths now as they are right outside my classroom. They were almost wing-tip to wing-tip.
Maybe these guys bought a second Pitts Special.
Red Baron Top Gun Experience
https://www.redbaron.com.au/air-combat-experience-harbour-beachesUpon your arrival at Red Baron HQ, Bankstown, you will both be suited in a flight-suit and prepared to board. Once your pre-flight briefing is complete your pilots will strap you securely into the cockpits and fasten your headset. There will be plenty of time for your family and friends to take photographs of you as you prepare for your flight.
You and your wingman will take off side by side in formation and head out for the ultimate experience. You’ll be able to hear all the calls to air traffic control as well as speak to your pilot through the intercom.
Once airborne you’ll and your wingman will head towards the outer suburbs of Sydney to reach a cruising altitude of 1500ft. You’ll soar over the sprawling Olympic site at Homebush Bay then over the north-western suburbs of Hornsby and St Ives. Once granted clearance to Sydney Harbour you’ll tour the city, taking in a bird’s eye view of iconic landmarks like the Sydney Opera House and Harbour Bridge. You can wave at the Prime Minister at Kirribilli, fly higher than the eagles at Taronga Park Zoo and salute the sailors on Garden Island. You and your wingman will have the best seats in the house for the best view in the world.
Pitts Special: a very big motor in a very lightweight aircraft.
esselte said:
Kothos said:
esselte said:On the same runway or on parallel runways?
I didn’t see the runway part but I know they were taking off since I’m familiar with the take-off and landing paths now as they are right outside my classroom. They were almost wing-tip to wing-tip.
Maybe these guys bought a second Pitts Special.
Red Baron Top Gun Experience
https://www.redbaron.com.au/air-combat-experience-harbour-beachesUpon your arrival at Red Baron HQ, Bankstown, you will both be suited in a flight-suit and prepared to board. Once your pre-flight briefing is complete your pilots will strap you securely into the cockpits and fasten your headset. There will be plenty of time for your family and friends to take photographs of you as you prepare for your flight.
You and your wingman will take off side by side in formation and head out for the ultimate experience. You’ll be able to hear all the calls to air traffic control as well as speak to your pilot through the intercom.
Once airborne you’ll and your wingman will head towards the outer suburbs of Sydney to reach a cruising altitude of 1500ft. You’ll soar over the sprawling Olympic site at Homebush Bay then over the north-western suburbs of Hornsby and St Ives. Once granted clearance to Sydney Harbour you’ll tour the city, taking in a bird’s eye view of iconic landmarks like the Sydney Opera House and Harbour Bridge. You can wave at the Prime Minister at Kirribilli, fly higher than the eagles at Taronga Park Zoo and salute the sailors on Garden Island. You and your wingman will have the best seats in the house for the best view in the world.
So this is a 2 person experience, one in each plane, each with their own pilot, next to each other the whole time?
Kothos said:
esselte said:
Kothos said:I didn’t see the runway part but I know they were taking off since I’m familiar with the take-off and landing paths now as they are right outside my classroom. They were almost wing-tip to wing-tip.
Maybe these guys bought a second Pitts Special.
Red Baron Top Gun Experience
https://www.redbaron.com.au/air-combat-experience-harbour-beachesUpon your arrival at Red Baron HQ, Bankstown, you will both be suited in a flight-suit and prepared to board. Once your pre-flight briefing is complete your pilots will strap you securely into the cockpits and fasten your headset. There will be plenty of time for your family and friends to take photographs of you as you prepare for your flight.
You and your wingman will take off side by side in formation and head out for the ultimate experience. You’ll be able to hear all the calls to air traffic control as well as speak to your pilot through the intercom.
Once airborne you’ll and your wingman will head towards the outer suburbs of Sydney to reach a cruising altitude of 1500ft. You’ll soar over the sprawling Olympic site at Homebush Bay then over the north-western suburbs of Hornsby and St Ives. Once granted clearance to Sydney Harbour you’ll tour the city, taking in a bird’s eye view of iconic landmarks like the Sydney Opera House and Harbour Bridge. You can wave at the Prime Minister at Kirribilli, fly higher than the eagles at Taronga Park Zoo and salute the sailors on Garden Island. You and your wingman will have the best seats in the house for the best view in the world.
So this is a 2 person experience, one in each plane, each with their own pilot, next to each other the whole time?
Yes. Looks like they do formation take-off, some formation flying over the city then the two planes have a mock dog-fight over Palm Beach.
Spiny Norman said:
My other fave EE Lightning video. :)
Nice. Always liked the Lightning. I also like Mark’s docos.
esselte said:
Kothos said:
esselte said:
Maybe these guys bought a second Pitts Special.Red Baron Top Gun Experience
https://www.redbaron.com.au/air-combat-experience-harbour-beachesSo this is a 2 person experience, one in each plane, each with their own pilot, next to each other the whole time?
Yes. Looks like they do formation take-off, some formation flying over the city then the two planes have a mock dog-fight over Palm Beach.
That could very much be the exact thing I saw.
Kothos said:
Spiny Norman said:
It’s also pretty normal at Sydney Airport as well, on the north/south runways though I believe they stagger the planes by a small distance so not exactly in parallel.
Is it only for training purposes or some sort of efficiency?
I haven’t seen it happen from Moorabbin airport. Bankstown and Moorabbin are airports that host aerobatics and stunt flying. A lot of modern biplanes are used in aerobatics and stunt flying. This could be practicing a stunt.
Tamb said:
captain_spalding said:
While i was hanging out the laundry, i recalled reading an interview with a former F-104 pilot a long time ago.‘What was a typical Starfighter mission like?’
‘Well, first we’d fuel up, and then take off. Then we’d make the first tanker rendezvous and re-fuel. That’d give us the fuel to get to the second tanker rendezvous so we could re-fuel. Then we’d turn around and make the third tanker rendezvous, and re-fuel. That’d get us back to the base, where we could re-fuel.’
It is said that F-104s killed more German pilots in the Cold War than the RAF did in WWII.
wookiemeister said:
Tamb said:
captain_spalding said:
While i was hanging out the laundry, i recalled reading an interview with a former F-104 pilot a long time ago.‘What was a typical Starfighter mission like?’
‘Well, first we’d fuel up, and then take off. Then we’d make the first tanker rendezvous and re-fuel. That’d give us the fuel to get to the second tanker rendezvous so we could re-fuel. Then we’d turn around and make the third tanker rendezvous, and re-fuel. That’d get us back to the base, where we could re-fuel.’
It is said that F-104s killed more German pilots in the Cold War than the RAF did in WWII.
The widowmaker
Thinking back to where Black Adder wished to apply to be a fighter pilot until he heard that the average lifespan was twenty minutes.
I’ve seen US F/A18’s take off in tandem from Darwin airport.
Never saw the Aussies do it though.