Hypothetical question:

Does the fire fighting service have an unquestioned legal right to extinguish any fire?

Say for example an homeowner has piled all of his furniture into the front yard and set it on fire. The neighbours call 000. Fireys arrive and want to put out the fire but the homeowner insists that they let it burn. What is the legal situation, do they just hang around and make sure it doesn’t set any of the neighbours’ properties on fire?

What if it was the house, but the homeowner insists that it should be allowed to burn?

What if it is a car on fire, and is spewing toxic gases?

party_pants said:

Does the fire fighting service have an unquestioned legal right to extinguish any fire?

What if it is a car on fire, and is spewing toxic gases?

Look, we’re in full support of electrification of the entire Australian road fleet, but this probably isn’t the right hammer to nail all ICEs with…

Pretty sure setting fire to your home is considered arson, and therefore a crime… to set a fire to stuff in your yard needs a permit, nearly always.

Anything that will cause a danger to the community can be extinguished

Arts said:

SCIENCE said:

party_pants said:

Does the fire fighting service have an unquestioned legal right to extinguish any fire?

What if it is a car on fire, and is spewing toxic gases?

Look, we’re in full support of electrification of the entire Australian road fleet, but this probably isn’t the right hammer to nail all ICEs with…

Anything that will cause a danger to the community can be extinguished

OK we take it back, what with the near and present threat of climate disaster, time to put out all those Ottos, always knew that firefighters were treehugging hippies.

party_pants said:

Hypothetical question:

Does the fire fighting service have an unquestioned legal right to extinguish any fire?

Say for example an homeowner has piled all of his furniture into the front yard and set it on fire. The neighbours call 000. Fireys arrive and want to put out the fire but the homeowner insists that they let it burn. What is the legal situation, do they just hang around and make sure it doesn’t set any of the neighbours’ properties on fire?

What if it was the house, but the homeowner insists that it should be allowed to burn?

What if it is a car on fire, and is spewing toxic gases?

I can’t speak for other local governments but in Busselton you were allowed a 1m by 1m fire to burn off garden refuse and fallen limbs etc. You could make a case for it being a legal burn if it was a small pile. That local law was changed a few years ago, and now in Busselton you can no longer have an open fire that isn’t in a fire pit, chimnea or bbq.

A car or house would be extinguished due to toxic fumes impacting neighbours. Not sure under what law though.

OK, thanks.

Just mulling over the plot for a novel.

party_pants said:

OK, thanks.

Just mulling over the plot for a novel.

Shame I didn’t see this thread 4 hours ago. I’ve just got home from a bbq with the Police Commissioner, the DFES Commissioner, several Superintendents, and a bunch of DFES Management staff etc. I coulda gone right to the top with this question. :)

party_pants said:

OK, thanks.

Just mulling over the plot for a novel.

Sure you are

Kingy said:

party_pants said:

OK, thanks.

Just mulling over the plot for a novel.

Shame I didn’t see this thread 4 hours ago. I’ve just got home from a bbq with the Police Commissioner, the DFES Commissioner, several Superintendents, and a bunch of DFES Management staff etc. I coulda gone right to the top with this question. :)

I only just started it.

Was thinking about a situation where a “vacant” block might be more valuable than one with an old house on it, because the cost of proper legit demolition with a permit and all that would be a bit steep.

Arts said:

party_pants said:

OK, thanks.

Just mulling over the plot for a novel.

Sure you are

I’m not in the financial position to go burning my own house down for fun.

party_pants said:

Kingy said:

party_pants said:

OK, thanks.

Just mulling over the plot for a novel.

Shame I didn’t see this thread 4 hours ago. I’ve just got home from a bbq with the Police Commissioner, the DFES Commissioner, several Superintendents, and a bunch of DFES Management staff etc. I coulda gone right to the top with this question. :)

I only just started it.

Was thinking about a situation where a “vacant” block might be more valuable than one with an old house on it, because the cost of proper legit demolition with a permit and all that would be a bit steep.

That’s fairly common in Dunsborough. Some houses don’t ever get lived in, they get built new, stayed in for a weekend, get ignored for 10 years, then sold and bulldozed for the “new” new house. A vacant lot next to a built lot is often priced higher for that reason.

party_pants said:

Kingy said:

party_pants said:

OK, thanks.

Just mulling over the plot for a novel.

Shame I didn’t see this thread 4 hours ago. I’ve just got home from a bbq with the Police Commissioner, the DFES Commissioner, several Superintendents, and a bunch of DFES Management staff etc. I coulda gone right to the top with this question. :)

I only just started it.

Was thinking about a situation where a “vacant” block might be more valuable than one with an old house on it, because the cost of proper legit demolition with a permit and all that would be a bit steep.

Id you contact your ocal fire brigade and tell them what you are doing. They may come and watch or they may issue you with a permit.

I don’t know about nowadays, but when my dad was a fireman in NSW, when the fire brigade arrived, the captain could declare a fire area, and that meant that he had basically commandeered everything within that area, and could do whatever was necessary for the task.

Fire brigade wants the water from your swimming pool? They can take it, and that’s that. You can get as irate as you wish, but your water is gone.

Your car is blocking access to a hydrant? Nudge the fire engine up behind it, and push it out of the way.

Your paling fence is in the way? Not for long, it’s going down.

captain_spalding said:

I don’t know about nowadays, but when my dad was a fireman in NSW, when the fire brigade arrived, the captain could declare a fire area, and that meant that he had basically commandeered everything within that area, and could do whatever was necessary for the task.

Fire brigade wants the water from your swimming pool? They can take it, and that’s that. You can get as irate as you wish, but your water is gone.

Your car is blocking access to a hydrant? Nudge the fire engine up behind it, and push it out of the way.

Your paling fence is in the way? Not for long, it’s going down.

Yes.

captain_spalding said:

I don’t know about nowadays, but when my dad was a fireman in NSW, when the fire brigade arrived, the captain could declare a fire area, and that meant that he had basically commandeered everything within that area, and could do whatever was necessary for the task.

Fire brigade wants the water from your swimming pool? They can take it, and that’s that. You can get as irate as you wish, but your water is gone.

Your car is blocking access to a hydrant? Nudge the fire engine up behind it, and push it out of the way.

Your paling fence is in the way? Not for long, it’s going down.

I spotted a bloke taking pictures with his phone annd I asked what are you up to? He said he was the local fire captain and he wanted to get me to push a pile of branches (prunings a neighbour had dumped) out to an open area and that they’d do a burn of it as a practice burn.

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

I don’t know about nowadays, but when my dad was a fireman in NSW, when the fire brigade arrived, the captain could declare a fire area, and that meant that he had basically commandeered everything within that area, and could do whatever was necessary for the task.

Fire brigade wants the water from your swimming pool? They can take it, and that’s that. You can get as irate as you wish, but your water is gone.

Your car is blocking access to a hydrant? Nudge the fire engine up behind it, and push it out of the way.

Your paling fence is in the way? Not for long, it’s going down.

Yes.

So, if that situation still applies, what it means is that when the fire area is declared, what happens to anything within it (especially the actual fire) is the decision of the brigade captain, and no-one else. For once, even the police have no say.

Dad told me of a fire scene where a rather keen policeman was telling the brigade captain to do this and do that. The captain just looked at him, and called to the firemen ‘roll up the hoses, boys, we can go home, the officer here knows what to do’.

The policeman was stunned, and the captain advised him to just go and control the spectators and otherwise keep the f*** out of the way.

captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

I don’t know about nowadays, but when my dad was a fireman in NSW, when the fire brigade arrived, the captain could declare a fire area, and that meant that he had basically commandeered everything within that area, and could do whatever was necessary for the task.

Fire brigade wants the water from your swimming pool? They can take it, and that’s that. You can get as irate as you wish, but your water is gone.

Your car is blocking access to a hydrant? Nudge the fire engine up behind it, and push it out of the way.

Your paling fence is in the way? Not for long, it’s going down.

Yes.

So, if that situation still applies, what it means is that when the fire area is declared, what happens to anything within it (especially the actual fire) is the decision of the brigade captain, and no-one else. For once, even the police have no say.

Dad told me of a fire scene where a rather keen policeman was telling the brigade captain to do this and do that. The captain just looked at him, and called to the firemen ‘roll up the hoses, boys, we can go home, the officer here knows what to do’.

The policeman was stunned, and the captain advised him to just go and control the spectators and otherwise keep the f*** out of the way.

Yes.

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

Yes.

So, if that situation still applies, what it means is that when the fire area is declared, what happens to anything within it (especially the actual fire) is the decision of the brigade captain, and no-one else. For once, even the police have no say.

Dad told me of a fire scene where a rather keen policeman was telling the brigade captain to do this and do that. The captain just looked at him, and called to the firemen ‘roll up the hoses, boys, we can go home, the officer here knows what to do’.

The policeman was stunned, and the captain advised him to just go and control the spectators and otherwise keep the f*** out of the way.

Yes.

Exactly how it should be.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

So, if that situation still applies, what it means is that when the fire area is declared, what happens to anything within it (especially the actual fire) is the decision of the brigade captain, and no-one else. For once, even the police have no say.

Dad told me of a fire scene where a rather keen policeman was telling the brigade captain to do this and do that. The captain just looked at him, and called to the firemen ‘roll up the hoses, boys, we can go home, the officer here knows what to do’.

The policeman was stunned, and the captain advised him to just go and control the spectators and otherwise keep the f*** out of the way.

Yes.

Exactly how it should be.

Does the policeman have a hose?

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Yes.

Exactly how it should be.

Does the policeman have a hose?

I once hosed a detective.
It was at a house fire & I noticed that the ceiling was about to collapse. The detective had just entered the room
and there was no time to have an argument with him on who gave the orders so I hit him on the chest with the full force of the hose. Blew him out the door closely followed by myself. He was furious until the ceiling came down. He looked at the flames, looked at me, gave a half nod & went away without a word of thanks.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

Exactly how it should be.

Does the policeman have a hose?

I once hosed a detective.
It was at a house fire & I noticed that the ceiling was about to collapse. The detective had just entered the room
and there was no time to have an argument with him on who gave the orders so I hit him on the chest with the full force of the hose. Blew him out the door closely followed by myself. He was furious until the ceiling came down. He looked at the flames, looked at me, gave a half nod & went away without a word of thanks.

A nod is as good as a wink. Up himself, he was.

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Does the policeman have a hose?

I once hosed a detective.
It was at a house fire & I noticed that the ceiling was about to collapse. The detective had just entered the room
and there was no time to have an argument with him on who gave the orders so I hit him on the chest with the full force of the hose. Blew him out the door closely followed by myself. He was furious until the ceiling came down. He looked at the flames, looked at me, gave a half nod & went away without a word of thanks.

A nod is as good as a wink. Up himself, he was.

He was pretty upset with his nice suit and shoes being soaked.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

I once hosed a detective.
It was at a house fire & I noticed that the ceiling was about to collapse. The detective had just entered the room
and there was no time to have an argument with him on who gave the orders so I hit him on the chest with the full force of the hose. Blew him out the door closely followed by myself. He was furious until the ceiling came down. He looked at the flames, looked at me, gave a half nod & went away without a word of thanks.

A nod is as good as a wink. Up himself, he was.

He was pretty upset with his nice suit and shoes being soaked.

I bet you would be too, if in his position. Wet but alive and unburned. His pride would have been rather bruised though.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

So, if that situation still applies, what it means is that when the fire area is declared, what happens to anything within it (especially the actual fire) is the decision of the brigade captain, and no-one else. For once, even the police have no say.

Dad told me of a fire scene where a rather keen policeman was telling the brigade captain to do this and do that. The captain just looked at him, and called to the firemen ‘roll up the hoses, boys, we can go home, the officer here knows what to do’.

The policeman was stunned, and the captain advised him to just go and control the spectators and otherwise keep the f*** out of the way.

Yes.

Exactly how it should be.

had a fleeting moment of fantasy about assuming absolute situational control over an emergency, near put on my fireman’s hat and went lit a fire

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

A nod is as good as a wink. Up himself, he was.

He was pretty upset with his nice suit and shoes being soaked.

I bet you would be too, if in his position. Wet but alive and unburned. His pride would have been rather bruised though.

I’d prefer the snarky cop to the VERY upset black snake which crawled over my foot at another house fire.

transition said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Yes.

Exactly how it should be.

had a fleeting moment of fantasy about assuming absolute situational control over an emergency, near put on my fireman’s hat and went lit a fire

Story goes that during the Great Fire of London the authorities blew up rows of houses to create firebreaks.

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

He was pretty upset with his nice suit and shoes being soaked.

I bet you would be too, if in his position. Wet but alive and unburned. His pride would have been rather bruised though.

I’d prefer the snarky cop to the VERY upset black snake which crawled over my foot at another house fire.

My dad told me a tale of when he was at a fire, a brown snake was winding up his leg. He moved his leg and the snake went down the hole he had been standing on.

Tamb said:

transition said:

Tamb said:

Exactly how it should be.

had a fleeting moment of fantasy about assuming absolute situational control over an emergency, near put on my fireman’s hat and went lit a fire

Story goes that during the Great Fire of London the authorities blew up rows of houses to create firebreaks.

Makes sense. All those buildings were timber.

Tamb said:

transition said:

Tamb said:

Exactly how it should be.

had a fleeting moment of fantasy about assuming absolute situational control over an emergency, near put on my fireman’s hat and went lit a fire

Story goes that during the Great Fire of London the authorities blew up rows of houses to create firebreaks.

gotta do what you gotta do

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

I bet you would be too, if in his position. Wet but alive and unburned. His pride would have been rather bruised though.

I’d prefer the snarky cop to the VERY upset black snake which crawled over my foot at another house fire.

My dad told me a tale of when he was at a fire, a brown snake was winding up his leg. He moved his leg and the snake went down the hole he had been standing on.

Yes. They get a bit single minded at times.

Tamb said:

transition said:

Tamb said:

Exactly how it should be.

had a fleeting moment of fantasy about assuming absolute situational control over an emergency, near put on my fireman’s hat and went lit a fire

Story goes that during the Great Fire of London the authorities blew up rows of houses to create firebreaks.

Yep, ‘twas in Sam’s diary.

Peak Warming Man said:

Tamb said:

transition said:

had a fleeting moment of fantasy about assuming absolute situational control over an emergency, near put on my fireman’s hat and went lit a fire

Story goes that during the Great Fire of London the authorities blew up rows of houses to create firebreaks.

Yep, ‘twas in Sam’s diary.

I was about to mention that, but as i’m the junior Sam-fan here, i defer to my learned colleague.

captain_spalding said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Tamb said:

Story goes that during the Great Fire of London the authorities blew up rows of houses to create firebreaks.

Yep, ‘twas in Sam’s diary.

I was about to mention that, but as i’m the junior Sam-fan here, i defer to my learned colleague.

Yes, Sam allowed us pepys into life at that time.

captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

I don’t know about nowadays, but when my dad was a fireman in NSW, when the fire brigade arrived, the captain could declare a fire area, and that meant that he had basically commandeered everything within that area, and could do whatever was necessary for the task.

Fire brigade wants the water from your swimming pool? They can take it, and that’s that. You can get as irate as you wish, but your water is gone.

Your car is blocking access to a hydrant? Nudge the fire engine up behind it, and push it out of the way.

Your paling fence is in the way? Not for long, it’s going down.

Yes.

So, if that situation still applies, what it means is that when the fire area is declared, what happens to anything within it (especially the actual fire) is the decision of the brigade captain, and no-one else. For once, even the police have no say.

Dad told me of a fire scene where a rather keen policeman was telling the brigade captain to do this and do that. The captain just looked at him, and called to the firemen ‘roll up the hoses, boys, we can go home, the officer here knows what to do’.

The policeman was stunned, and the captain advised him to just go and control the spectators and otherwise keep the f*** out of the way.

this is only true to a point. I mean yes, in a raging fire the first priority is to prevent the fire from spreading or causing more damage.. once the fires have declared a space safe to enter, if there is suspicion of a homicide then the police are in charge. AFAIK if there are suspicious circumstances an its arson the fire inspector controls the scene, if that arson is in an attempt to cover up another crime like murder, the homicide detectives take control.

In general though, despite these stories, both fires and police work quite closely and with respect for each other IME

Arts said:

captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

Yes.

So, if that situation still applies, what it means is that when the fire area is declared, what happens to anything within it (especially the actual fire) is the decision of the brigade captain, and no-one else. For once, even the police have no say.

Dad told me of a fire scene where a rather keen policeman was telling the brigade captain to do this and do that. The captain just looked at him, and called to the firemen ‘roll up the hoses, boys, we can go home, the officer here knows what to do’.

The policeman was stunned, and the captain advised him to just go and control the spectators and otherwise keep the f*** out of the way.

this is only true to a point. I mean yes, in a raging fire the first priority is to prevent the fire from spreading or causing more damage.. once the fires have declared a space safe to enter, if there is suspicion of a homicide then the police are in charge. AFAIK if there are suspicious circumstances an its arson the fire inspector controls the scene, if that arson is in an attempt to cover up another crime like murder, the homicide detectives take control.

In general though, despite these stories, both fires and police work quite closely and with respect for each other IME

What If You Got ChatGPT To Run It

SCIENCE said:

Arts said:

captain_spalding said:

So, if that situation still applies, what it means is that when the fire area is declared, what happens to anything within it (especially the actual fire) is the decision of the brigade captain, and no-one else. For once, even the police have no say.

Dad told me of a fire scene where a rather keen policeman was telling the brigade captain to do this and do that. The captain just looked at him, and called to the firemen ‘roll up the hoses, boys, we can go home, the officer here knows what to do’.

The policeman was stunned, and the captain advised him to just go and control the spectators and otherwise keep the f*** out of the way.

this is only true to a point. I mean yes, in a raging fire the first priority is to prevent the fire from spreading or causing more damage.. once the fires have declared a space safe to enter, if there is suspicion of a homicide then the police are in charge. AFAIK if there are suspicious circumstances an its arson the fire inspector controls the scene, if that arson is in an attempt to cover up another crime like murder, the homicide detectives take control.

In general though, despite these stories, both fires and police work quite closely and with respect for each other IME

What If You Got ChatGPT To Run It

some people just wanna watch the whole world burn…

Tamb said:

roughbarked said:

Tamb said:

He was pretty upset with his nice suit and shoes being soaked.

I bet you would be too, if in his position. Wet but alive and unburned. His pride would have been rather bruised though.

I’d prefer the snarky cop to the VERY upset black snake which crawled over my foot at another house fire.

Yep, done that. I didn’t know I could still dance until that day. Damn near levitated.

captain_spalding said:

I don’t know about nowadays, but when my dad was a fireman in NSW, when the fire brigade arrived, the captain could declare a fire area, and that meant that he had basically commandeered everything within that area, and could do whatever was necessary for the task.

Fire brigade wants the water from your swimming pool? They can take it, and that’s that. You can get as irate as you wish, but your water is gone.

Your car is blocking access to a hydrant? Nudge the fire engine up behind it, and push it out of the way.

Your paling fence is in the way? Not for long, it’s going down.

ok. that sounds rather definitive.

party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

I don’t know about nowadays, but when my dad was a fireman in NSW, when the fire brigade arrived, the captain could declare a fire area, and that meant that he had basically commandeered everything within that area, and could do whatever was necessary for the task.

Fire brigade wants the water from your swimming pool? They can take it, and that’s that. You can get as irate as you wish, but your water is gone.

Your car is blocking access to a hydrant? Nudge the fire engine up behind it, and push it out of the way.

Your paling fence is in the way? Not for long, it’s going down.

ok. that sounds rather definitive.

It’s not quite the same in WA. The Captain takes charge of the fire and does what needs to be done to put it out, but has to obey the laws. The Brigades Fire Control Officer(FCO) has the powers mentioned above. He or she can instruct the Captain to bulldoze homes, burn down buildings, take water from pools etc.

However, after the incident, there will be an inquiry. If it was necessary, then fine. If not, well, the FCO has to defend their actions.