Date: 1/06/2023 16:16:08
From: dv
ID: 2038574
Subject: Ukraine liberation news


Despite limitations on free speech that haven’t ben seen since Soviet times, “there is a realistic possibility that recent vitriolic rhetoric by nationalist figures such as Wagner Group owner Yevgeny Prigozhin is emboldening opposition figures to challenge taboo topics,” the UK’s Ministry of Defence has said in its latest intelligence update on the conflict.

The MoD pointed to the appearance of opposition politician Boris Nadezhdin on Russian TV this week, in which he called for a new president to be elected in 2024, in order to rebuild normal relations with Europe.

The ministry said:

“Nadezhdin has been a vocal critic of the war since the invasion, but this is highly likely the first call for Putin to be replaced on Russian state-approved TV since it began.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/jun/01/russia-ukraine-war-live-three-killed-in-kyiv-as-russia-launches-fresh-overnight-strikes?page=with:block-6478326a8f08403f1d17e3e7#block-6478326a8f08403f1d17e3e7

Reply Quote

Date: 1/06/2023 16:30:00
From: roughbarked
ID: 2038589
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:



Despite limitations on free speech that haven’t ben seen since Soviet times, “there is a realistic possibility that recent vitriolic rhetoric by nationalist figures such as Wagner Group owner Yevgeny Prigozhin is emboldening opposition figures to challenge taboo topics,” the UK’s Ministry of Defence has said in its latest intelligence update on the conflict.

The MoD pointed to the appearance of opposition politician Boris Nadezhdin on Russian TV this week, in which he called for a new president to be elected in 2024, in order to rebuild normal relations with Europe.

The ministry said:

“Nadezhdin has been a vocal critic of the war since the invasion, but this is highly likely the first call for Putin to be replaced on Russian state-approved TV since it began.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/jun/01/russia-ukraine-war-live-three-killed-in-kyiv-as-russia-launches-fresh-overnight-strikes?page=with:block-6478326a8f08403f1d17e3e7#block-6478326a8f08403f1d17e3e7

He’s stepping out. Wodner how long he’ll live for.

Reply Quote

Date: 1/06/2023 16:31:48
From: dv
ID: 2038592
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:


dv said:


Despite limitations on free speech that haven’t ben seen since Soviet times, “there is a realistic possibility that recent vitriolic rhetoric by nationalist figures such as Wagner Group owner Yevgeny Prigozhin is emboldening opposition figures to challenge taboo topics,” the UK’s Ministry of Defence has said in its latest intelligence update on the conflict.

The MoD pointed to the appearance of opposition politician Boris Nadezhdin on Russian TV this week, in which he called for a new president to be elected in 2024, in order to rebuild normal relations with Europe.

The ministry said:

“Nadezhdin has been a vocal critic of the war since the invasion, but this is highly likely the first call for Putin to be replaced on Russian state-approved TV since it began.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/jun/01/russia-ukraine-war-live-three-killed-in-kyiv-as-russia-launches-fresh-overnight-strikes?page=with:block-6478326a8f08403f1d17e3e7#block-6478326a8f08403f1d17e3e7

He’s stepping out. Wodner how long he’ll live for.

Replacement is General Wotdididayov

Reply Quote

Date: 1/06/2023 16:35:41
From: roughbarked
ID: 2038596
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:


roughbarked said:

dv said:


Despite limitations on free speech that haven’t ben seen since Soviet times, “there is a realistic possibility that recent vitriolic rhetoric by nationalist figures such as Wagner Group owner Yevgeny Prigozhin is emboldening opposition figures to challenge taboo topics,” the UK’s Ministry of Defence has said in its latest intelligence update on the conflict.

The MoD pointed to the appearance of opposition politician Boris Nadezhdin on Russian TV this week, in which he called for a new president to be elected in 2024, in order to rebuild normal relations with Europe.

The ministry said:

“Nadezhdin has been a vocal critic of the war since the invasion, but this is highly likely the first call for Putin to be replaced on Russian state-approved TV since it began.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/jun/01/russia-ukraine-war-live-three-killed-in-kyiv-as-russia-launches-fresh-overnight-strikes?page=with:block-6478326a8f08403f1d17e3e7#block-6478326a8f08403f1d17e3e7

He’s stepping out. Wodner how long he’ll live for.

Replacement is General Wotdididayov

:) I would have thought his replacement would be Whofelloutadoubleglazedseventhfloorwindow.

Reply Quote

Date: 1/06/2023 17:28:54
From: Ogmog
ID: 2038614
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:


dv said:

roughbarked said:

He’s stepping out. Wodner how long he’ll live for.

Replacement is General Wotdididayov

:) I would have thought his replacement would be Whofelloutadoubleglazedseventhfloorwindow.

A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
THUD

Reply Quote

Date: 1/06/2023 20:04:21
From: Bubblecar
ID: 2038711
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Lucky kids who made it back:

Ukraine war: The mothers going to get their children back from Russia

When 15-year-old Sasha Kraynyuk studied the photograph handed to him by Ukrainian investigators, he recognised the boy dressed in Russian military uniform immediately.

The teenager sitting at a school desk has the Z-mark of Russia’s war emblazoned on his right sleeve, coloured in the red, white and blue of the Russian flag.

But the boy’s name is Artem, and he’s Ukrainian.

Sasha and Artem were among 13 children taken from their own school in Kupyansk, north-eastern Ukraine last September by armed Russian soldiers in balaclavas. Ushered onto a bus with shouts of “Quickly!”, they then disappeared for weeks without trace.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65641304

Reply Quote

Date: 1/06/2023 20:05:51
From: roughbarked
ID: 2038715
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bubblecar said:


Lucky kids who made it back:

Ukraine war: The mothers going to get their children back from Russia

When 15-year-old Sasha Kraynyuk studied the photograph handed to him by Ukrainian investigators, he recognised the boy dressed in Russian military uniform immediately.

The teenager sitting at a school desk has the Z-mark of Russia’s war emblazoned on his right sleeve, coloured in the red, white and blue of the Russian flag.

But the boy’s name is Artem, and he’s Ukrainian.

Sasha and Artem were among 13 children taken from their own school in Kupyansk, north-eastern Ukraine last September by armed Russian soldiers in balaclavas. Ushered onto a bus with shouts of “Quickly!”, they then disappeared for weeks without trace.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65641304

So few.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/06/2023 18:23:44
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2039232
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

In this video, flames and smoke can be seen rising from apartment buildings in Shebikimo in the Belgorod region of Russia:

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aQEZODq_460svav1.mp4

This is caused by pigeons coming home to roost.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/06/2023 17:13:15
From: dv
ID: 2039527
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Reply Quote

Date: 3/06/2023 17:14:42
From: dv
ID: 2039530
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Reply Quote

Date: 3/06/2023 17:22:57
From: Michael V
ID: 2039533
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:



:)

Reply Quote

Date: 3/06/2023 17:26:10
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2039536
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Michael V said:


dv said:


:)

I’ve seen Russian concrete up close.

Runways that began to visibly disintegrate about 15 mins after the departure of the last Russian technician. All the structural integrity of a beach sandcastle, and for the same reasons.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/06/2023 18:44:27
From: roughbarked
ID: 2039847
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Russian children evacuated as ‘quite relentless’ shelling continues to hit Belgorod
Shelling in Russia’s Belgorod region has continued after two people were killed on Saturday and hundreds of children were evacuated, according to the region’s governor.
15m ago

Reply Quote

Date: 6/06/2023 13:42:36
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2040398
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Ukrainian armoured vehicle camouflage:

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aeQmo3q_460svav1.mp4

Reply Quote

Date: 6/06/2023 14:12:13
From: buffy
ID: 2040409
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


Ukrainian armoured vehicle camouflage:

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aeQmo3q_460svav1.mp4

That is rather Nac Mac Feegle. (Cue Tamb)

Reply Quote

Date: 6/06/2023 14:52:44
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 2040415
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


Ukrainian armoured vehicle camouflage:

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aeQmo3q_460svav1.mp4

:)

Reply Quote

Date: 6/06/2023 15:00:56
From: Tamb
ID: 2040418
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

buffy said:


captain_spalding said:

Ukrainian armoured vehicle camouflage:

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aeQmo3q_460svav1.mp4

That is rather Nac Mac Feegle. (Cue Tamb)

Aye. Here lassie.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/06/2023 15:13:36
From: Michael V
ID: 2040422
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Nova Khakovka Dam in Ukraine’s Kherson destroyed, region flooding

Supplies water to Crimea and the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-06/nova-khakovka-dam-kherson-destroyed-region-flooding/102445926

Reply Quote

Date: 6/06/2023 15:14:22
From: esselte
ID: 2040424
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported early on June 6 that Russian forces blew up the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant.

“The scale of the destruction, the speed and volumes of water, and the likely areas of inundation are being clarified,” the military said on their official Facebook page.

Video at link. That’s a lot of water

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1665935047734571009

Reply Quote

Date: 6/06/2023 15:19:07
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 2040426
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

617 Squadron most likely.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/06/2023 15:21:55
From: Michael V
ID: 2040428
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Peak Warming Man said:


617 Squadron most likely.

I was wondering about that.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/06/2023 15:22:51
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2040429
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

esselte said:


Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported early on June 6 that Russian forces blew up the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant.

“The scale of the destruction, the speed and volumes of water, and the likely areas of inundation are being clarified,” the military said on their official Facebook page.

Video at link. That’s a lot of water

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1665935047734571009


Real bad for lots of reasons.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/06/2023 15:26:41
From: Tamb
ID: 2040434
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Peak Warming Man said:


617 Squadron most likely.

617 are training on the (I think) F-15

Reply Quote

Date: 6/06/2023 15:28:04
From: Tamb
ID: 2040435
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

PermeateFree said:


esselte said:

Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported early on June 6 that Russian forces blew up the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant.

“The scale of the destruction, the speed and volumes of water, and the likely areas of inundation are being clarified,” the military said on their official Facebook page.

Video at link. That’s a lot of water

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1665935047734571009


Real bad for lots of reasons.


Nuclear power stations without cooling water are a Bad Thing.

Reply Quote

Date: 6/06/2023 15:29:10
From: Michael V
ID: 2040436
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Tamb said:


PermeateFree said:

esselte said:

Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported early on June 6 that Russian forces blew up the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant.

“The scale of the destruction, the speed and volumes of water, and the likely areas of inundation are being clarified,” the military said on their official Facebook page.

Video at link. That’s a lot of water

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1665935047734571009


Real bad for lots of reasons.


Nuclear power stations without cooling water are a Bad Thing.

I reckon.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/06/2023 00:53:26
From: dv
ID: 2040606
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Reply Quote

Date: 7/06/2023 08:51:19
From: roughbarked
ID: 2040643
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

PermeateFree said:


esselte said:

Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported early on June 6 that Russian forces blew up the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant.

“The scale of the destruction, the speed and volumes of water, and the likely areas of inundation are being clarified,” the military said on their official Facebook page.

Video at link. That’s a lot of water

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1665935047734571009


Real bad for lots of reasons.

This is very bad. For as said above. Many reasons.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/06/2023 08:53:07
From: roughbarked
ID: 2040644
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:



Yeah. Well that one was easy to get.

Probably too soon to be making jokes about it though.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/06/2023 09:53:34
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2040658
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:


PermeateFree said:

esselte said:

Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command reported early on June 6 that Russian forces blew up the Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant.

“The scale of the destruction, the speed and volumes of water, and the likely areas of inundation are being clarified,” the military said on their official Facebook page.

Video at link. That’s a lot of water

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1665935047734571009


Real bad for lots of reasons.

This is very bad. For as said above. Many reasons.

Also rather pointless.

The Russians are developing a habit of doing this.

During a retreat in WW2, the Russians blew up another dam on the Dnipr river in Ukraine to slow down the German advance. Massive downstream destruction, wrecked water supplies, hurt their own industries.

Didn’t slow down the Germans one tiny bit.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/06/2023 11:51:36
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2041252
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Reply Quote

Date: 8/06/2023 11:58:53
From: roughbarked
ID: 2041259
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:



The Russians are attempting to starve the world into submission.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/06/2023 12:05:35
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2041262
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:


captain_spalding said:


The Russians are attempting to starve the world into submission.

Reports like this remind me of reports of Japanese pilots during WW2.

They’d come back and say stuff like ‘i scored three direct hits on a battleship!’.

And the next bloke would say ‘i hit a battleship and it exploded and sank!’ (the Japanese were obsessed with battleships for most of the war). And then the next bloke…

Based on reports like that, the Japanese realised that they’d sunk the US and Allied fleets several times over, which may go some way to explaining their willingness to continue the fight.

Of course, they did hit a lot of ships, but rather than admit they’d wasted the effort on bombing e.g. a fleet tug, it would be reported as ‘a battleship!’.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/06/2023 12:12:23
From: Tamb
ID: 2041271
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:


The Russians are attempting to starve the world into submission.

Reports like this remind me of reports of Japanese pilots during WW2.

They’d come back and say stuff like ‘i scored three direct hits on a battleship!’.

And the next bloke would say ‘i hit a battleship and it exploded and sank!’ (the Japanese were obsessed with battleships for most of the war). And then the next bloke…

Based on reports like that, the Japanese realised that they’d sunk the US and Allied fleets several times over, which may go some way to explaining their willingness to continue the fight.

Of course, they did hit a lot of ships, but rather than admit they’d wasted the effort on bombing e.g. a fleet tug, it would be reported as ‘a battleship!’.

The Japanese also reported blowing out the Sydney harbour bridge’s central support.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/06/2023 12:13:58
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2041276
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Tamb said:

The Japanese also reported blowing out the Sydney harbour bridge’s central support.

One of the few reminders of WW2 that are still with us today.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/06/2023 12:17:16
From: Tamb
ID: 2041279
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


Tamb said:

The Japanese also reported blowing out the Sydney harbour bridge’s central support.

One of the few reminders of WW2 that are still with us today.


Yes, they had photos to prove the central support was missing.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/06/2023 12:18:45
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2041281
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Tamb said:


captain_spalding said:

Tamb said:

The Japanese also reported blowing out the Sydney harbour bridge’s central support.

One of the few reminders of WW2 that are still with us today.


Yes, they had photos to prove the central support was missing.

The evidence is incontrevertible.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/06/2023 12:26:58
From: Ian
ID: 2041296
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:



Reply Quote

Date: 12/06/2023 22:43:23
From: Kingy
ID: 2042680
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Ukrainian military have said Russia’s destroyed another dam to hinder the #Ukraine’s offensive. With Ukraine having liberated 4 villages in its eastern Donetsk region, Russian troops are said to have blown up the Klyuchove dam on Mokri Yaly river.

Reply Quote

Date: 13/06/2023 17:56:51
From: dv
ID: 2042928
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Wellington, New Zealand
CNN
New Zealand’s national radio broadcaster has launched an investigation and put a staff member on leave after it said a series of news stories on its website about Russia’s invasion of Ukraine had been edited to present “a false account of events.”

Radio New Zealand (RNZ), which is government-funded but has editorial independence, had by Sunday corrected 16 stories on its website dating back to April 2022 because of what it termed “inappropriate editing.”

The corrections RNZ added to the stories indicated the editing had changed the original stories to present pro-Russian interpretations of some events in Ukraine as fact. Fourteen of the stories had been supplied by Reuters and one came from Britain’s BBC, the links to the stories show.

RNZ said in a statement it was continuing a detailed audit and analysis of all stories that could have been inappropriately edited.

RNZ is a media client of Reuters.

“Reuters has addressed the issue with RNZ, which has initiated an investigation,” a spokesperson for Reuters said.

“As stated in our terms and conditions, Reuters content cannot be altered without prior written consent. Reuters is fully committed to covering the war in Ukraine impartially and accurately, in keeping with the Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/12/asia/radio-new-zealand-probe-ukraine-intl-hnk/index.html

Reply Quote

Date: 15/06/2023 16:10:02
From: dv
ID: 2043661
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news


(Rubs temples)

Reply Quote

Date: 15/06/2023 16:11:37
From: Bubblecar
ID: 2043663
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:



(Rubs temples)

Ah, like that other country’s Chernobyl.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/06/2023 11:04:16
From: dv
ID: 2043953
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

CNN
The Australian government is introducing legislation to terminate a lease of a new Russian embassy near Parliament House in the capital Canberra, Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said Thursday.

“The government has received very clear security advice as to the risk presented by a new Russian presence so close to Parliament House,” Albanese told reporters in a televised press conference.

The land proposed for the second Russian embassy lies directly adjacent to Parliament House, Australian Home Minister Clare O’Neil said alongside Albanese.

“We’re acting quickly to ensure the leased site does not become a formal diplomatic presence,” the prime minister said. He said the decision was taken “in the national security interest of Australia.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/14/australia/australia-russian-embassy-lease-intl-latam/index.html

Reply Quote

Date: 16/06/2023 11:23:25
From: roughbarked
ID: 2043962
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:


CNN
The Australian government is introducing legislation to terminate a lease of a new Russian embassy near Parliament House in the capital Canberra, Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said Thursday.

“The government has received very clear security advice as to the risk presented by a new Russian presence so close to Parliament House,” Albanese told reporters in a televised press conference.

The land proposed for the second Russian embassy lies directly adjacent to Parliament House, Australian Home Minister Clare O’Neil said alongside Albanese.

“We’re acting quickly to ensure the leased site does not become a formal diplomatic presence,” the prime minister said. He said the decision was taken “in the national security interest of Australia.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/14/australia/australia-russian-embassy-lease-intl-latam/index.html

That was on the ABC yesterday. I posted it here.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/06/2023 11:27:35
From: Cymek
ID: 2043963
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:


CNN
The Australian government is introducing legislation to terminate a lease of a new Russian embassy near Parliament House in the capital Canberra, Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said Thursday.

“The government has received very clear security advice as to the risk presented by a new Russian presence so close to Parliament House,” Albanese told reporters in a televised press conference.

The land proposed for the second Russian embassy lies directly adjacent to Parliament House, Australian Home Minister Clare O’Neil said alongside Albanese.

“We’re acting quickly to ensure the leased site does not become a formal diplomatic presence,” the prime minister said. He said the decision was taken “in the national security interest of Australia.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/14/australia/australia-russian-embassy-lease-intl-latam/index.html

Could they not let it be built and then talk all sorts of nonsense the Russkies think is real.

“Dah fellow parliamentarian that Putin is big strong bear like man, he boils my potatoes”

Reply Quote

Date: 16/06/2023 11:59:44
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 2043975
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:


CNN
The Australian government is introducing legislation to terminate a lease of a new Russian embassy near Parliament House in the capital Canberra, Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said Thursday.

“The government has received very clear security advice as to the risk presented by a new Russian presence so close to Parliament House,” Albanese told reporters in a televised press conference.

The land proposed for the second Russian embassy lies directly adjacent to Parliament House, Australian Home Minister Clare O’Neil said alongside Albanese.

“We’re acting quickly to ensure the leased site does not become a formal diplomatic presence,” the prime minister said. He said the decision was taken “in the national security interest of Australia.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/14/australia/australia-russian-embassy-lease-intl-latam/index.html

They might have been able to use a device I thought up many years ago that would let them hear the conversations from many kilometres away
It’s relatively simple to build but difficult to use because of the precision required for it. It’s just a laser that is aimed at a window of the room you want to listen to, and the reflected beam would have the precise frequency of the laser modulated by the vibrations of the window from people talking in the room. Phase out the frequency of the laser and you’re left with mostly the sounds in the room.
So you’d have to be extremely accurate with the angles so pick up the reflected beam.
It might sound a bit odd, but I have read that the CIA use such devices from time to time.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/06/2023 12:00:53
From: roughbarked
ID: 2043976
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Spiny Norman said:


dv said:

CNN
The Australian government is introducing legislation to terminate a lease of a new Russian embassy near Parliament House in the capital Canberra, Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said Thursday.

“The government has received very clear security advice as to the risk presented by a new Russian presence so close to Parliament House,” Albanese told reporters in a televised press conference.

The land proposed for the second Russian embassy lies directly adjacent to Parliament House, Australian Home Minister Clare O’Neil said alongside Albanese.

“We’re acting quickly to ensure the leased site does not become a formal diplomatic presence,” the prime minister said. He said the decision was taken “in the national security interest of Australia.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/14/australia/australia-russian-embassy-lease-intl-latam/index.html

They might have been able to use a device I thought up many years ago that would let them hear the conversations from many kilometres away
It’s relatively simple to build but difficult to use because of the precision required for it. It’s just a laser that is aimed at a window of the room you want to listen to, and the reflected beam would have the precise frequency of the laser modulated by the vibrations of the window from people talking in the room. Phase out the frequency of the laser and you’re left with mostly the sounds in the room.
So you’d have to be extremely accurate with the angles so pick up the reflected beam.
It might sound a bit odd, but I have read that the CIA use such devices from time to time.

That’s an interesting tidbit.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/06/2023 12:02:25
From: btm
ID: 2043977
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Spiny Norman said:


dv said:

CNN
The Australian government is introducing legislation to terminate a lease of a new Russian embassy near Parliament House in the capital Canberra, Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said Thursday.

“The government has received very clear security advice as to the risk presented by a new Russian presence so close to Parliament House,” Albanese told reporters in a televised press conference.

The land proposed for the second Russian embassy lies directly adjacent to Parliament House, Australian Home Minister Clare O’Neil said alongside Albanese.

“We’re acting quickly to ensure the leased site does not become a formal diplomatic presence,” the prime minister said. He said the decision was taken “in the national security interest of Australia.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/14/australia/australia-russian-embassy-lease-intl-latam/index.html

They might have been able to use a device I thought up many years ago that would let them hear the conversations from many kilometres away
It’s relatively simple to build but difficult to use because of the precision required for it. It’s just a laser that is aimed at a window of the room you want to listen to, and the reflected beam would have the precise frequency of the laser modulated by the vibrations of the window from people talking in the room. Phase out the frequency of the laser and you’re left with mostly the sounds in the room.
So you’d have to be extremely accurate with the angles so pick up the reflected beam.
It might sound a bit odd, but I have read that the CIA use such devices from time to time.

I built one of those a few years ago. I also found that I could get audio from sunlight reflected from windows of rooms in which people were talking.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/06/2023 12:04:46
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 2043979
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

btm said:


Spiny Norman said:

dv said:

CNN
The Australian government is introducing legislation to terminate a lease of a new Russian embassy near Parliament House in the capital Canberra, Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said Thursday.

“The government has received very clear security advice as to the risk presented by a new Russian presence so close to Parliament House,” Albanese told reporters in a televised press conference.

The land proposed for the second Russian embassy lies directly adjacent to Parliament House, Australian Home Minister Clare O’Neil said alongside Albanese.

“We’re acting quickly to ensure the leased site does not become a formal diplomatic presence,” the prime minister said. He said the decision was taken “in the national security interest of Australia.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/14/australia/australia-russian-embassy-lease-intl-latam/index.html

They might have been able to use a device I thought up many years ago that would let them hear the conversations from many kilometres away
It’s relatively simple to build but difficult to use because of the precision required for it. It’s just a laser that is aimed at a window of the room you want to listen to, and the reflected beam would have the precise frequency of the laser modulated by the vibrations of the window from people talking in the room. Phase out the frequency of the laser and you’re left with mostly the sounds in the room.
So you’d have to be extremely accurate with the angles so pick up the reflected beam.
It might sound a bit odd, but I have read that the CIA use such devices from time to time.

I built one of those a few years ago. I also found that I could get audio from sunlight reflected from windows of rooms in which people were talking.

Well there ya go. Now that I think about it, it was over thirty years ago I came up with the idea.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/06/2023 12:06:14
From: Cymek
ID: 2043981
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Spiny Norman said:


dv said:

CNN
The Australian government is introducing legislation to terminate a lease of a new Russian embassy near Parliament House in the capital Canberra, Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said Thursday.

“The government has received very clear security advice as to the risk presented by a new Russian presence so close to Parliament House,” Albanese told reporters in a televised press conference.

The land proposed for the second Russian embassy lies directly adjacent to Parliament House, Australian Home Minister Clare O’Neil said alongside Albanese.

“We’re acting quickly to ensure the leased site does not become a formal diplomatic presence,” the prime minister said. He said the decision was taken “in the national security interest of Australia.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/14/australia/australia-russian-embassy-lease-intl-latam/index.html

They might have been able to use a device I thought up many years ago that would let them hear the conversations from many kilometres away
It’s relatively simple to build but difficult to use because of the precision required for it. It’s just a laser that is aimed at a window of the room you want to listen to, and the reflected beam would have the precise frequency of the laser modulated by the vibrations of the window from people talking in the room. Phase out the frequency of the laser and you’re left with mostly the sounds in the room.
So you’d have to be extremely accurate with the angles so pick up the reflected beam.
It might sound a bit odd, but I have read that the CIA use such devices from time to time.

I think it was this method I read about before, not sure though

I’ve read about that before or it’s been used in tv or movies
This is something highly involved as well

https://www.zdnet.com/article/academics-steal-data-from-air-gapped-systems-using-pc-fan-vibrations/

Israeli researchers use vibrations from CPU, GPU, or PC chassis fans to broadcast stolen information through solid materials and to nearby receives, breaking air-gapped system protections.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/06/2023 12:06:55
From: roughbarked
ID: 2043982
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Spiny Norman said:


btm said:

Spiny Norman said:

They might have been able to use a device I thought up many years ago that would let them hear the conversations from many kilometres away
It’s relatively simple to build but difficult to use because of the precision required for it. It’s just a laser that is aimed at a window of the room you want to listen to, and the reflected beam would have the precise frequency of the laser modulated by the vibrations of the window from people talking in the room. Phase out the frequency of the laser and you’re left with mostly the sounds in the room.
So you’d have to be extremely accurate with the angles so pick up the reflected beam.
It might sound a bit odd, but I have read that the CIA use such devices from time to time.

I built one of those a few years ago. I also found that I could get audio from sunlight reflected from windows of rooms in which people were talking.

Well there ya go. Now that I think about it, it was over thirty years ago I came up with the idea.

and like the bow and arrow, it was simultaneously thought of right around the globe?

Reply Quote

Date: 16/06/2023 12:13:19
From: esselte
ID: 2043984
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Spiny Norman said:


dv said:

CNN
The Australian government is introducing legislation to terminate a lease of a new Russian embassy near Parliament House in the capital Canberra, Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said Thursday.

“The government has received very clear security advice as to the risk presented by a new Russian presence so close to Parliament House,” Albanese told reporters in a televised press conference.

The land proposed for the second Russian embassy lies directly adjacent to Parliament House, Australian Home Minister Clare O’Neil said alongside Albanese.

“We’re acting quickly to ensure the leased site does not become a formal diplomatic presence,” the prime minister said. He said the decision was taken “in the national security interest of Australia.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/14/australia/australia-russian-embassy-lease-intl-latam/index.html

They might have been able to use a device I thought up many years ago that would let them hear the conversations from many kilometres away
It’s relatively simple to build but difficult to use because of the precision required for it. It’s just a laser that is aimed at a window of the room you want to listen to, and the reflected beam would have the precise frequency of the laser modulated by the vibrations of the window from people talking in the room. Phase out the frequency of the laser and you’re left with mostly the sounds in the room.
So you’d have to be extremely accurate with the angles so pick up the reflected beam.
It might sound a bit odd, but I have read that the CIA use such devices from time to time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_microphone

The technique of using a light beam to remotely record sound probably originated with Léon Theremin in the Soviet Union at or before 1947, when he developed and used the Buran eavesdropping system. This worked by using a low power infrared beam (not a laser) from a distance to detect the sound vibrations in the glass windows. Lavrentiy Beria, head of the KGB, had used this Buran device to spy on the U.S., British, and French embassies in Moscow.[

Reply Quote

Date: 16/06/2023 12:13:42
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 2043985
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Cymek said:


Spiny Norman said:

dv said:

CNN
The Australian government is introducing legislation to terminate a lease of a new Russian embassy near Parliament House in the capital Canberra, Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said Thursday.

“The government has received very clear security advice as to the risk presented by a new Russian presence so close to Parliament House,” Albanese told reporters in a televised press conference.

The land proposed for the second Russian embassy lies directly adjacent to Parliament House, Australian Home Minister Clare O’Neil said alongside Albanese.

“We’re acting quickly to ensure the leased site does not become a formal diplomatic presence,” the prime minister said. He said the decision was taken “in the national security interest of Australia.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/14/australia/australia-russian-embassy-lease-intl-latam/index.html

They might have been able to use a device I thought up many years ago that would let them hear the conversations from many kilometres away
It’s relatively simple to build but difficult to use because of the precision required for it. It’s just a laser that is aimed at a window of the room you want to listen to, and the reflected beam would have the precise frequency of the laser modulated by the vibrations of the window from people talking in the room. Phase out the frequency of the laser and you’re left with mostly the sounds in the room.
So you’d have to be extremely accurate with the angles so pick up the reflected beam.
It might sound a bit odd, but I have read that the CIA use such devices from time to time.

I think it was this method I read about before, not sure though

I’ve read about that before or it’s been used in tv or movies
This is something highly involved as well

https://www.zdnet.com/article/academics-steal-data-from-air-gapped-systems-using-pc-fan-vibrations/

Israeli researchers use vibrations from CPU, GPU, or PC chassis fans to broadcast stolen information through solid materials and to nearby receives, breaking air-gapped system protections.

With the demise of the old CRT monitors, the people that used to do Van Eck Phreaking has dropped substantially.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/06/2023 12:21:12
From: btm
ID: 2043986
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Spiny Norman said:


With the demise of the old CRT monitors, the people that used to do Van Eck Phreaking has dropped substantially.

VEP still works with LCD monitors. It’s not as easy, though.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/06/2023 15:40:58
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2044256
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

They Come At Night, Mostly. With Leopard Tanks And Western Optics, Ukrainian Troops Own The Dark.

David Axe
Forbes Staff
Jun 16, 2023,05:21pm EDT

Ukrainian troops are taking control of the darkness along the southern front in Zaporizhzhia and Donetsk Oblasts. As Ukraine’s 2023 counteroffensive grinds toward its third week, more and more Ukrainian assaults are launching at night.

The Ukrainians’ shift to after-dark operations wasn’t possible until recently. Those hundreds of modern tanks and fighting vehicles that Kyiv has gotten from its foreign allies since January? Their greatest advantage over contemporary Russian vehicles might be their optics, including thermal night-vision gear that can spot enemy forces from thousands of yards away, even in total darkness.

“Imported equipment has excellent night optics,” one Russian milblogger noted. “They can go and conduct surveillance, and aim and control the accuracy of the fire. Therefore, the enemy chooses the night.”

Read more:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/06/16/they-come-at-night-mostly-with-leopard-tanks-and-western-optics-ukrainian-troops-own-the-dark/?sh=563cd99d54a7

Reply Quote

Date: 19/06/2023 18:09:48
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2045004
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

The Kakhovka dam in Ukraine was designed to withstand almost any attack imaginable from the outside. Evidence reviewed by The New York Times clearly suggests that Russia blew it up from within.

The dam, which is controlled by Russia, was built during Soviet times, which meant that Moscow had the structure’s engineering drawings and knew about its Achilles’ heel: a small passage underneath the dam reachable from the machine room. This passageway, the evidence suggests, is where an explosive charge detonated and destroyed the dam.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/06/16/world/europe/ukraine-kakhovka-dam-collapse.html?

Reply Quote

Date: 19/06/2023 18:49:17
From: party_pants
ID: 2045013
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Witty Rejoinder said:


The Kakhovka dam in Ukraine was designed to withstand almost any attack imaginable from the outside. Evidence reviewed by The New York Times clearly suggests that Russia blew it up from within.

The dam, which is controlled by Russia, was built during Soviet times, which meant that Moscow had the structure’s engineering drawings and knew about its Achilles’ heel: a small passage underneath the dam reachable from the machine room. This passageway, the evidence suggests, is where an explosive charge detonated and destroyed the dam.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/06/16/world/europe/ukraine-kakhovka-dam-collapse.html?

An R2-unit stole the plans and leaked it to the rebels.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 08:06:41
From: dv
ID: 2047043
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-06-23-23/h_8ca7869e3cd32d5f9f89d96fb2858f4b

The chief of the Wagner private military group, Yevgeny Prigozhin, on Friday accused Russian military leadership of striking a Wagner military camp and killing a “huge amount” of his mercenary forces.

Prigozhin claimed that the Russian Ministry of Defense tricked Wagner and he vowed to “respond to these atrocities.”

“They saw that we weren’t broken and they launched strikes on our camps. A huge amount of our fighters were killed, our comrades in arms. We will make a decision about how to respond to these atrocities. The next step is ours,” he continued, alleging that “they wiped out dozens.”

Russia’s Ministry of Defense denied the allegation in a Telegram post Friday, calling the messages and videos spreading on social networks on behalf of Prigozhin about the event “untrue” and “an informational provocation.”

Prigozhin claimed that the “evil that is being carried out” by Russia’s military leadership “must be stopped” following the alleged attack. “They disregard the lives of soldiers, they have forgotten the word ‘justice,’” Prigozhin said in the voice recording.

“The details started to appear; Minister of Defense arrived to Rostov especially to conduct an operation to destroy Wagner PMC. He used artillerymen and helicopter pilots undercover to destroy us,” Prigozhin added.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 08:10:11
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 2047048
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:


https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-06-23-23/h_8ca7869e3cd32d5f9f89d96fb2858f4b

The chief of the Wagner private military group, Yevgeny Prigozhin, on Friday accused Russian military leadership of striking a Wagner military camp and killing a “huge amount” of his mercenary forces.

Prigozhin claimed that the Russian Ministry of Defense tricked Wagner and he vowed to “respond to these atrocities.”

“They saw that we weren’t broken and they launched strikes on our camps. A huge amount of our fighters were killed, our comrades in arms. We will make a decision about how to respond to these atrocities. The next step is ours,” he continued, alleging that “they wiped out dozens.”

Russia’s Ministry of Defense denied the allegation in a Telegram post Friday, calling the messages and videos spreading on social networks on behalf of Prigozhin about the event “untrue” and “an informational provocation.”

Prigozhin claimed that the “evil that is being carried out” by Russia’s military leadership “must be stopped” following the alleged attack. “They disregard the lives of soldiers, they have forgotten the word ‘justice,’” Prigozhin said in the voice recording.

“The details started to appear; Minister of Defense arrived to Rostov especially to conduct an operation to destroy Wagner PMC. He used artillerymen and helicopter pilots undercover to destroy us,” Prigozhin added.

Russia’s mission is the denazification of Ukraine, apparently.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 08:10:24
From: Bubblecar
ID: 2047049
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:


https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-06-23-23/h_8ca7869e3cd32d5f9f89d96fb2858f4b

The chief of the Wagner private military group, Yevgeny Prigozhin, on Friday accused Russian military leadership of striking a Wagner military camp and killing a “huge amount” of his mercenary forces.

Prigozhin claimed that the Russian Ministry of Defense tricked Wagner and he vowed to “respond to these atrocities.”

“They saw that we weren’t broken and they launched strikes on our camps. A huge amount of our fighters were killed, our comrades in arms. We will make a decision about how to respond to these atrocities. The next step is ours,” he continued, alleging that “they wiped out dozens.”

Russia’s Ministry of Defense denied the allegation in a Telegram post Friday, calling the messages and videos spreading on social networks on behalf of Prigozhin about the event “untrue” and “an informational provocation.”

Prigozhin claimed that the “evil that is being carried out” by Russia’s military leadership “must be stopped” following the alleged attack. “They disregard the lives of soldiers, they have forgotten the word ‘justice,’” Prigozhin said in the voice recording.

“The details started to appear; Minister of Defense arrived to Rostov especially to conduct an operation to destroy Wagner PMC. He used artillerymen and helicopter pilots undercover to destroy us,” Prigozhin added.

Goodo, keep it up. More Russian vs Russians is what this war needs.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 08:49:42
From: roughbarked
ID: 2047059
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Peak Warming Man said:


dv said:

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-06-23-23/h_8ca7869e3cd32d5f9f89d96fb2858f4b

The chief of the Wagner private military group, Yevgeny Prigozhin, on Friday accused Russian military leadership of striking a Wagner military camp and killing a “huge amount” of his mercenary forces.

Prigozhin claimed that the Russian Ministry of Defense tricked Wagner and he vowed to “respond to these atrocities.”

“They saw that we weren’t broken and they launched strikes on our camps. A huge amount of our fighters were killed, our comrades in arms. We will make a decision about how to respond to these atrocities. The next step is ours,” he continued, alleging that “they wiped out dozens.”

Russia’s Ministry of Defense denied the allegation in a Telegram post Friday, calling the messages and videos spreading on social networks on behalf of Prigozhin about the event “untrue” and “an informational provocation.”

Prigozhin claimed that the “evil that is being carried out” by Russia’s military leadership “must be stopped” following the alleged attack. “They disregard the lives of soldiers, they have forgotten the word ‘justice,’” Prigozhin said in the voice recording.

“The details started to appear; Minister of Defense arrived to Rostov especially to conduct an operation to destroy Wagner PMC. He used artillerymen and helicopter pilots undercover to destroy us,” Prigozhin added.

Russia’s mission is the denazification of Ukraine, apparently.

Seems their real issue is the deNazification of the Kremlin.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 13:04:09
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2047217
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

ABC News:

‘Wagner boss says his fighters have marched into Russia, Kremlin accuses him of armed mutiny’

‘The founder of Russia’s Wagner mercenary force, Yevgeny Prigozhin, says his men have crossed the border from Ukraine into Russia and were ready to go “all the way” against the Russian military.’

and

Wagner boss says his forces have shot down a Russian military helicopter

Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin claims his forces have shot down a Russian military helicopter.

“A helicopter has just now opened fire at a civilian column. It has been shot down by units of PMC Wagner,” Prigozhin says in a new audio message.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 13:05:50
From: Tamb
ID: 2047219
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


ABC News:

‘Wagner boss says his fighters have marched into Russia, Kremlin accuses him of armed mutiny’

‘The founder of Russia’s Wagner mercenary force, Yevgeny Prigozhin, says his men have crossed the border from Ukraine into Russia and were ready to go “all the way” against the Russian military.’

and

Wagner boss says his forces have shot down a Russian military helicopter

Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin claims his forces have shot down a Russian military helicopter.

“A helicopter has just now opened fire at a civilian column. It has been shot down by units of PMC Wagner,” Prigozhin says in a new audio message.

Prigozhin for President.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 13:10:41
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2047227
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Tamb said:


captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

‘Wagner boss says his fighters have marched into Russia, Kremlin accuses him of armed mutiny’

‘The founder of Russia’s Wagner mercenary force, Yevgeny Prigozhin, says his men have crossed the border from Ukraine into Russia and were ready to go “all the way” against the Russian military.’

and

Wagner boss says his forces have shot down a Russian military helicopter

Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin claims his forces have shot down a Russian military helicopter.

“A helicopter has just now opened fire at a civilian column. It has been shot down by units of PMC Wagner,” Prigozhin says in a new audio message.

Prigozhin for President.


Shirley this would be an ideal time for ukraine to commit all their troops to the offensive?

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 13:12:40
From: roughbarked
ID: 2047229
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


Tamb said:

captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

‘Wagner boss says his fighters have marched into Russia, Kremlin accuses him of armed mutiny’

‘The founder of Russia’s Wagner mercenary force, Yevgeny Prigozhin, says his men have crossed the border from Ukraine into Russia and were ready to go “all the way” against the Russian military.’

and

Wagner boss says his forces have shot down a Russian military helicopter

Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin claims his forces have shot down a Russian military helicopter.

“A helicopter has just now opened fire at a civilian column. It has been shot down by units of PMC Wagner,” Prigozhin says in a new audio message.

Prigozhin for President.


Shirley this would be an ideal time for ukraine to commit all their troops to the offensive?

Why would they need to toss away lives and equipment needlessly? The enemy is eating itself from the inside out.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 13:14:46
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2047230
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:


wookiemeister said:

Tamb said:

Prigozhin for President.


Shirley this would be an ideal time for ukraine to commit all their troops to the offensive?

Why would they need to toss away lives and equipment needlessly? The enemy is eating itself from the inside out.

Yeah, let ‘em fight among themselves, use up ammunition, suffer losses, have equipment destroyed. etc. etc.

Save all your own for action against whichever weakened team prevails.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 13:27:35
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2047231
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:


wookiemeister said:

Tamb said:

Prigozhin for President.


Shirley this would be an ideal time for ukraine to commit all their troops to the offensive?

Why would they need to toss away lives and equipment needlessly? The enemy is eating itself from the inside out.


No they need to commit now !

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 13:29:32
From: roughbarked
ID: 2047232
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

Shirley this would be an ideal time for ukraine to commit all their troops to the offensive?

Why would they need to toss away lives and equipment needlessly? The enemy is eating itself from the inside out.


No they need to commit now !

They mainly need to be staging diversions, like parking captured Russian tanks where the Russians can waste ammo on.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 13:31:08
From: roughbarked
ID: 2047233
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:


wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

Why would they need to toss away lives and equipment needlessly? The enemy is eating itself from the inside out.


No they need to commit now !

They mainly need to be staging diversions, like parking captured Russian tanks where the Russians can waste ammo on.

My old man’s trick at Tobruk was to place plywood and cardboard cutouts of tank profiles on the horizon fro Rommel to observe with his binouculars. Made Rommel waste all his fuel chasing shadows.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 13:31:24
From: party_pants
ID: 2047234
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


ABC News:

‘Wagner boss says his fighters have marched into Russia, Kremlin accuses him of armed mutiny’

‘The founder of Russia’s Wagner mercenary force, Yevgeny Prigozhin, says his men have crossed the border from Ukraine into Russia and were ready to go “all the way” against the Russian military.’

and

Wagner boss says his forces have shot down a Russian military helicopter

Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin claims his forces have shot down a Russian military helicopter.

“A helicopter has just now opened fire at a civilian column. It has been shot down by units of PMC Wagner,” Prigozhin says in a new audio message.

That’s one way to end the war I guess.

Problem is… who gets the nukes if Russia collapses?

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 13:33:15
From: OCDC
ID: 2047236
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

‘Wagner boss says his fighters have marched into Russia, Kremlin accuses him of armed mutiny’

‘The founder of Russia’s Wagner mercenary force, Yevgeny Prigozhin, says his men have crossed the border from Ukraine into Russia and were ready to go “all the way” against the Russian military.’

and

Wagner boss says his forces have shot down a Russian military helicopter

Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin claims his forces have shot down a Russian military helicopter.

“A helicopter has just now opened fire at a civilian column. It has been shot down by units of PMC Wagner,” Prigozhin says in a new audio message.

That’s one way to end the war I guess.

Problem is… who gets the nukes if Russia collapses?


Direct delivery to Maralago.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 13:33:41
From: roughbarked
ID: 2047238
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

‘Wagner boss says his fighters have marched into Russia, Kremlin accuses him of armed mutiny’

‘The founder of Russia’s Wagner mercenary force, Yevgeny Prigozhin, says his men have crossed the border from Ukraine into Russia and were ready to go “all the way” against the Russian military.’

and

Wagner boss says his forces have shot down a Russian military helicopter

Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin claims his forces have shot down a Russian military helicopter.

“A helicopter has just now opened fire at a civilian column. It has been shot down by units of PMC Wagner,” Prigozhin says in a new audio message.

That’s one way to end the war I guess.

Problem is… who gets the nukes if Russia collapses?

Nukes always were a danger if not under strict regulationary care.
and it ain’t ever gunna get none better until all nuke warheads and the tech to make them is destroyed.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 13:36:14
From: party_pants
ID: 2047241
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

OCDC said:


party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

‘Wagner boss says his fighters have marched into Russia, Kremlin accuses him of armed mutiny’

‘The founder of Russia’s Wagner mercenary force, Yevgeny Prigozhin, says his men have crossed the border from Ukraine into Russia and were ready to go “all the way” against the Russian military.’

and

Wagner boss says his forces have shot down a Russian military helicopter

Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin claims his forces have shot down a Russian military helicopter.

“A helicopter has just now opened fire at a civilian column. It has been shot down by units of PMC Wagner,” Prigozhin says in a new audio message.

That’s one way to end the war I guess.

Problem is… who gets the nukes if Russia collapses?


Direct delivery to Maralago.

In the “secure bathroom” ?

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 13:38:04
From: OCDC
ID: 2047245
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


OCDC said:

party_pants said:

That’s one way to end the war I guess.

Problem is… who gets the nukes if Russia collapses?


Direct delivery to Maralago.

In the “secure bathroom” ?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_zDXVw0aatQ

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 13:41:25
From: roughbarked
ID: 2047246
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


OCDC said:

party_pants said:

That’s one way to end the war I guess.

Problem is… who gets the nukes if Russia collapses?


Direct delivery to Maralago.

In the “secure bathroom” ?

He didn’t give a shit where you put it.
It was only his playboy magazine collection anyway.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 13:42:13
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 2047248
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

‘Wagner boss says his fighters have marched into Russia, Kremlin accuses him of armed mutiny’

‘The founder of Russia’s Wagner mercenary force, Yevgeny Prigozhin, says his men have crossed the border from Ukraine into Russia and were ready to go “all the way” against the Russian military.’

and

Wagner boss says his forces have shot down a Russian military helicopter

Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin claims his forces have shot down a Russian military helicopter.

“A helicopter has just now opened fire at a civilian column. It has been shot down by units of PMC Wagner,” Prigozhin says in a new audio message.

That’s one way to end the war I guess.

Problem is… who gets the nukes if Russia collapses?

I think if they get shared out amongst the forum it would be good.
We’re all excellent and responsible drivers.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 13:42:16
From: roughbarked
ID: 2047249
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

OCDC said:


party_pants said:

OCDC said:

Direct delivery to Maralago.

In the “secure bathroom” ?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_zDXVw0aatQ

We have all seen that one.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 13:46:02
From: party_pants
ID: 2047250
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

OCDC said:


party_pants said:

OCDC said:

Direct delivery to Maralago.

In the “secure bathroom” ?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_zDXVw0aatQ

that was fucking dreadful :p

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 13:46:04
From: roughbarked
ID: 2047251
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Peak Warming Man said:


party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

‘Wagner boss says his fighters have marched into Russia, Kremlin accuses him of armed mutiny’

‘The founder of Russia’s Wagner mercenary force, Yevgeny Prigozhin, says his men have crossed the border from Ukraine into Russia and were ready to go “all the way” against the Russian military.’

and

Wagner boss says his forces have shot down a Russian military helicopter

Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin claims his forces have shot down a Russian military helicopter.

“A helicopter has just now opened fire at a civilian column. It has been shot down by units of PMC Wagner,” Prigozhin says in a new audio message.

That’s one way to end the war I guess.

Problem is… who gets the nukes if Russia collapses?

I think if they get shared out amongst the forum it would be good.
We’re all excellent and responsible drivers.

No thanks. This is one vehicle I refuse to put my exceptional driving skills to use upon.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 13:46:42
From: roughbarked
ID: 2047252
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


OCDC said:

party_pants said:

In the “secure bathroom” ?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_zDXVw0aatQ

that was fucking dreadful :p

I am sure that Trump himself would agree.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 13:47:23
From: party_pants
ID: 2047253
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Peak Warming Man said:


party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

‘Wagner boss says his fighters have marched into Russia, Kremlin accuses him of armed mutiny’

‘The founder of Russia’s Wagner mercenary force, Yevgeny Prigozhin, says his men have crossed the border from Ukraine into Russia and were ready to go “all the way” against the Russian military.’

and

Wagner boss says his forces have shot down a Russian military helicopter

Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin claims his forces have shot down a Russian military helicopter.

“A helicopter has just now opened fire at a civilian column. It has been shot down by units of PMC Wagner,” Prigozhin says in a new audio message.

That’s one way to end the war I guess.

Problem is… who gets the nukes if Russia collapses?

I think if they get shared out amongst the forum it would be good.
We’re all excellent and responsible drivers.

Hint for humanity – you don’t want to give me control over any nukes. Anger management is not always my strong suite.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 13:53:29
From: Bubblecar
ID: 2047254
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

That’s one way to end the war I guess.

Problem is… who gets the nukes if Russia collapses?

I think if they get shared out amongst the forum it would be good.
We’re all excellent and responsible drivers.

Hint for humanity – you don’t want to give me control over any nukes. Anger management is not always my strong suite.

I turn murderous when the coaster falls off my drink and rolls across the floor.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 14:06:37
From: roughbarked
ID: 2047257
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

That’s one way to end the war I guess.

Problem is… who gets the nukes if Russia collapses?

I think if they get shared out amongst the forum it would be good.
We’re all excellent and responsible drivers.

Hint for humanity – you don’t want to give me control over any nukes. Anger management is not always my strong suite.

Nor mine.
Though there is no record of me ever having used a weapon in defence of myself.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 14:07:12
From: roughbarked
ID: 2047259
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bubblecar said:


party_pants said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I think if they get shared out amongst the forum it would be good.
We’re all excellent and responsible drivers.

Hint for humanity – you don’t want to give me control over any nukes. Anger management is not always my strong suite.

I turn murderous when the coaster falls off my drink and rolls across the floor.

Yeah but coaster murder, isn’t the nastiest of criminal offences.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 14:09:59
From: dv
ID: 2047266
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bubblecar said:


party_pants said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I think if they get shared out amongst the forum it would be good.
We’re all excellent and responsible drivers.

Hint for humanity – you don’t want to give me control over any nukes. Anger management is not always my strong suite.

I turn murderous when the coaster falls off my drink and rolls across the floor.

Maybe they should give Ukraine the nukes they took from them in 1993 …

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 14:14:08
From: Bubblecar
ID: 2047274
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:


Bubblecar said:

party_pants said:

Hint for humanity – you don’t want to give me control over any nukes. Anger management is not always my strong suite.

I turn murderous when the coaster falls off my drink and rolls across the floor.

Maybe they should give Ukraine the nukes they took from them in 1993 …

Ukraine can probably roll into Belarus and claim the nukes that Russia is installing there, but they’re only tactical as AFAIK.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 14:15:37
From: roughbarked
ID: 2047279
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bubblecar said:


dv said:

Bubblecar said:

I turn murderous when the coaster falls off my drink and rolls across the floor.

Maybe they should give Ukraine the nukes they took from them in 1993 …

Ukraine can probably roll into Belarus and claim the nukes that Russia is installing there, but they’re only tactical as AFAIK.

That may be a priority.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 14:38:21
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2047293
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

Shirley this would be an ideal time for ukraine to commit all their troops to the offensive?

Why would they need to toss away lives and equipment needlessly? The enemy is eating itself from the inside out.


No they need to commit now !

No, they need to stay out of it.

Let the Russians and the Wagners tear each other to pieces, and for the division and hostility between them to grow, so as to divide them entirely.

The Ukrainians would not want to engage now, in case the Russians and Wagners identify them as a ‘common enemy’, and turn away from their squabble, even temporarily.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 17:47:38
From: party_pants
ID: 2047356
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Might be time to offer a few bribes to Wagner people to switch sides, or bugger off.

Use some of the money from seized Russian assets to fund it.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 17:58:49
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2047363
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


Might be time to offer a few bribes to Wagner people to switch sides, or bugger off.

My mercenary ancestors (actually, some of them are still around) never had any problems with switching sides, if the money was right.

It was never personal, just business, you understand. They were in it for the money, ideals and patriotism were never a factor.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 18:47:53
From: monkey skipper
ID: 2047380
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

https://youtu.be/rDMMAF4Ms1k

Vladimir Putin addresses Russia on alleged coup

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 21:44:07
From: Kingy
ID: 2047464
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Russian forces have reportedly started to dig fighting positions in Moscow

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 22:16:53
From: Kingy
ID: 2047471
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Google maps is showing the live location of the military convoys heading to Moscow.

https://www.google.com/maps/@55.2899548,38.0572976,8.18z/data=!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu

!!

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 22:20:00
From: furious
ID: 2047472
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


Google maps is showing the live location of the military convoys heading to Moscow.

https://www.google.com/maps/@55.2899548,38.0572976,8.18z/data=!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu

!!

You’d think they would learn to turn their location settings off. Mine are always off and I’m not invading anyone…

Reply Quote

Date: 24/06/2023 22:26:11
From: Kingy
ID: 2047473
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

furious said:


Kingy said:

Google maps is showing the live location of the military convoys heading to Moscow.

https://www.google.com/maps/@55.2899548,38.0572976,8.18z/data=!5m1!1e1?entry=ttu

!!

You’d think they would learn to turn their location settings off. Mine are always off and I’m not invading anyone…

I think it’s picking up everyone else that’s stuck in traffic waiting for them to pass.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 01:05:22
From: dv
ID: 2047500
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 13:57:27
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2047648
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

The Belarus border is twice as close to Moscow than the Donbas where Wagner were previously stationed. Prigozhin might be precisely where he wants to be.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 15:00:34
From: dv
ID: 2047672
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Witty Rejoinder said:


The Belarus border is twice as close to Moscow than the Donbas where Wagner were previously stationed. Prigozhin might be precisely where he wants to be.

You’ve confused me

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 15:15:06
From: party_pants
ID: 2047673
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

The Belarus border is twice as close to Moscow than the Donbas where Wagner were previously stationed. Prigozhin might be precisely where he wants to be.

You’ve confused me

Prickshit has gone to Belarus. Belarus is closer to Moscow than the Donbas.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 15:18:42
From: Michael V
ID: 2047674
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


dv said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

The Belarus border is twice as close to Moscow than the Donbas where Wagner were previously stationed. Prigozhin might be precisely where he wants to be.

You’ve confused me

Prickshit has gone to Belarus. Belarus is closer to Moscow than the Donbas.

We don’t yet know whether his mercenary army has gone there as well, though.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 15:23:11
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2047679
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Michael V said:


party_pants said:

dv said:

You’ve confused me

Prickshit has gone to Belarus. Belarus is closer to Moscow than the Donbas.

We don’t yet know whether his mercenary army has gone there as well, though.

This is true. I had assumed they had.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 17:14:52
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2047714
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Witty Rejoinder said:


Michael V said:

party_pants said:

Prickshit has gone to Belarus. Belarus is closer to Moscow than the Donbas.

We don’t yet know whether his mercenary army has gone there as well, though.

This is true. I had assumed they had.

He’ll keep a good number of them in Belarus with him. He isn’t going make himself isolated and vulnerable to actions from either Kyiv or Moscow.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 17:27:18
From: Kingy
ID: 2047718
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

Michael V said:

We don’t yet know whether his mercenary army has gone there as well, though.

This is true. I had assumed they had.

He’ll keep a good number of them in Belarus with him. He isn’t going make himself isolated and vulnerable to actions from either Kyiv or Moscow.

It’ll be much easier for him to take Belarus instead of Moscow, most of the people in it hate their dictator.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 17:35:23
From: party_pants
ID: 2047720
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

This is true. I had assumed they had.

He’ll keep a good number of them in Belarus with him. He isn’t going make himself isolated and vulnerable to actions from either Kyiv or Moscow.

It’ll be much easier for him to take Belarus instead of Moscow, most of the people in it hate their dictator.

Who’d wanna take over Belarus?

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 17:40:15
From: Kingy
ID: 2047721
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


Kingy said:

captain_spalding said:

He’ll keep a good number of them in Belarus with him. He isn’t going make himself isolated and vulnerable to actions from either Kyiv or Moscow.

It’ll be much easier for him to take Belarus instead of Moscow, most of the people in it hate their dictator.

Who’d wanna take over Belarus?

A murderous tinpot wannabe dictator who suddenly needs diplomatic immunity?

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 17:44:21
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2047723
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


Kingy said:

captain_spalding said:

He’ll keep a good number of them in Belarus with him. He isn’t going make himself isolated and vulnerable to actions from either Kyiv or Moscow.

It’ll be much easier for him to take Belarus instead of Moscow, most of the people in it hate their dictator.

Who’d wanna take over Belarus?

Prigozhin.

Especially if the Russians have followed through on what they announced, and sent tactical nuclear weapons to Belarus.

Would get him a seat at the high-stakes table.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 17:47:36
From: party_pants
ID: 2047727
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


party_pants said:

Kingy said:

It’ll be much easier for him to take Belarus instead of Moscow, most of the people in it hate their dictator.

Who’d wanna take over Belarus?

A murderous tinpot wannabe dictator who suddenly needs diplomatic immunity?

If you have a dispute with Moscow, Belarus is not a very good place to hide. Better off going for some farther away country, maybe one of those resource rich countries in Africa where Wagner already operates.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 17:50:21
From: furious
ID: 2047728
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


Kingy said:

party_pants said:

Who’d wanna take over Belarus?

A murderous tinpot wannabe dictator who suddenly needs diplomatic immunity?

If you have a dispute with Moscow, Belarus is not a very good place to hide. Better off going for some farther away country, maybe one of those resource rich countries in Africa where Wagner already operates.

Didn’t Russia recently move some nukes into Belarus?

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 17:51:14
From: furious
ID: 2047729
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


party_pants said:

Kingy said:

It’ll be much easier for him to take Belarus instead of Moscow, most of the people in it hate their dictator.

Who’d wanna take over Belarus?

Prigozhin.

Especially if the Russians have followed through on what they announced, and sent tactical nuclear weapons to Belarus.

Would get him a seat at the high-stakes table.

Perhaps I should have read further…

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 17:51:38
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2047731
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

furious said:


party_pants said:

Kingy said:

A murderous tinpot wannabe dictator who suddenly needs diplomatic immunity?

If you have a dispute with Moscow, Belarus is not a very good place to hide. Better off going for some farther away country, maybe one of those resource rich countries in Africa where Wagner already operates.

Didn’t Russia recently move some nukes into Belarus?

They said they were going to shift some tactical N-weapons to Belarus.

No news on whether they have done that yet, or not.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 18:20:29
From: roughbarked
ID: 2047744
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


party_pants said:

Kingy said:

It’ll be much easier for him to take Belarus instead of Moscow, most of the people in it hate their dictator.

Who’d wanna take over Belarus?

Prigozhin.

Especially if the Russians have followed through on what they announced, and sent tactical nuclear weapons to Belarus.

Would get him a seat at the high-stakes table.

A very dangerous situation.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 18:22:41
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2047746
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:


captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

Who’d wanna take over Belarus?

Prigozhin.

Especially if the Russians have followed through on what they announced, and sent tactical nuclear weapons to Belarus.

Would get him a seat at the high-stakes table.

A very dangerous situation.

Or, he might be a stabilising factor.

He’s obviously not averse to negotiation, and he would probably be willing to listen to any ideas that the Zelensky government might put forward.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 18:24:00
From: roughbarked
ID: 2047747
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

Prigozhin.

Especially if the Russians have followed through on what they announced, and sent tactical nuclear weapons to Belarus.

Would get him a seat at the high-stakes table.

A very dangerous situation.

Or, he might be a stabilising factor.

He’s obviously not averse to negotiation, and he would probably be willing to listen to any ideas that the Zelensky government might put forward.

Yes, he works for money and it would be interesting if he offered his services to Ukraine.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 18:30:55
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2047751
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:


captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

A very dangerous situation.

Or, he might be a stabilising factor.

He’s obviously not averse to negotiation, and he would probably be willing to listen to any ideas that the Zelensky government might put forward.

Yes, he works for money and it would be interesting if he offered his services to Ukraine.

If he was running Belarus, with some inventory of tactical nukes to back him up, he could setup a sort of mini-NATO.

“If Russia attacks you (or ‘if Ukraine attacks you’, depending on who he’s talking to), then i will come to your aid. In the meantime, you keep your nose out of Belarus, and everyone’s happy, right?”

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 18:30:55
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2047752
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:


captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

A very dangerous situation.

Or, he might be a stabilising factor.

He’s obviously not averse to negotiation, and he would probably be willing to listen to any ideas that the Zelensky government might put forward.

Yes, he works for money and it would be interesting if he offered his services to Ukraine.

If he was running Belarus, with some inventory of tactical nukes to back him up, he could setup a sort of mini-NATO.

“If Russia attacks you (or ‘if Ukraine attacks you’, depending on who he’s talking to), then i will come to your aid. In the meantime, you keep your nose out of Belarus, and everyone’s happy, right?”

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 18:33:25
From: roughbarked
ID: 2047755
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

Or, he might be a stabilising factor.

He’s obviously not averse to negotiation, and he would probably be willing to listen to any ideas that the Zelensky government might put forward.

Yes, he works for money and it would be interesting if he offered his services to Ukraine.

If he was running Belarus, with some inventory of tactical nukes to back him up, he could setup a sort of mini-NATO.

“If Russia attacks you (or ‘if Ukraine attacks you’, depending on who he’s talking to), then i will come to your aid. In the meantime, you keep your nose out of Belarus, and everyone’s happy, right?”

Now that would be a bit of a turnout.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 18:36:58
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2047759
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:


captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

Yes, he works for money and it would be interesting if he offered his services to Ukraine.

If he was running Belarus, with some inventory of tactical nukes to back him up, he could setup a sort of mini-NATO.

“If Russia attacks you (or ‘if Ukraine attacks you’, depending on who he’s talking to), then i will come to your aid. In the meantime, you keep your nose out of Belarus, and everyone’s happy, right?”

Now that would be a bit of a turnout.

Sometimes i think i missed my calling.

I could have been a rather good power broker.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 18:38:53
From: party_pants
ID: 2047761
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Nevermind the nukes, the current ruler of Belarus might not be very welcoming.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 18:42:15
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2047764
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


Nevermind the nukes, the current ruler of Belarus might not be very welcoming.

Leaders are, like the rest of us, quite expendable.

Prigozhin certainly has the means available.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 18:45:54
From: furious
ID: 2047767
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


party_pants said:

Nevermind the nukes, the current ruler of Belarus might not be very welcoming.

Leaders are, like the rest of us, quite expendable.

Prigozhin certainly has the means available.

That’s if he doesn’t fall out of a window first…

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 18:52:49
From: roughbarked
ID: 2047771
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

If he was running Belarus, with some inventory of tactical nukes to back him up, he could setup a sort of mini-NATO.

“If Russia attacks you (or ‘if Ukraine attacks you’, depending on who he’s talking to), then i will come to your aid. In the meantime, you keep your nose out of Belarus, and everyone’s happy, right?”

Now that would be a bit of a turnout.

Sometimes i think i missed my calling.

I could have been a rather good power broker.

:)

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 21:27:19
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2047820
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

A talking head on ABC News 24 today whose name I don’t recall talked about other oligarchs having private armies in addition to Prigozhin. This article from February suggests that in addition to Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov’s army, who I was aware of, numerous other individuals both within and outside the Russian military command are amassing armed supporters. Fun times:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/13/putin-private-armies-ukraine-yevgeny-prigozhin-wagner-group-kremlin

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 21:34:19
From: party_pants
ID: 2047824
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Witty Rejoinder said:


A talking head on ABC News 24 today whose name I don’t recall talked about other oligarchs having private armies in addition to Prigozhin. This article from February suggests that in addition to Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov’s army, who I was aware of, numerous other individuals both within and outside the Russian military command are amassing armed supporters. Fun times:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/13/putin-private-armies-ukraine-yevgeny-prigozhin-wagner-group-kremlin

Probably illegal in Aus. Damn regulators suppressing innovation and business.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/06/2023 21:59:02
From: Woodie
ID: 2047836
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

A talking head on ABC News 24 today whose name I don’t recall talked about other oligarchs having private armies in addition to Prigozhin. This article from February suggests that in addition to Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov’s army, who I was aware of, numerous other individuals both within and outside the Russian military command are amassing armed supporters. Fun times:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/13/putin-private-armies-ukraine-yevgeny-prigozhin-wagner-group-kremlin

Probably illegal in Aus. Damn regulators suppressing innovation and business.

Probably illegal in Russia too. Dunno. They charged bunghole features with treason didn’t they? Exiles to Bellarus, when he said he’d use his. Like to see Pootey say “No ya can’t” to all thse Olly Garks. Then see what happens. 😮

Reply Quote

Date: 30/06/2023 08:09:59
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2049056
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Russia Appears to Have Detained Top General in Post-Mutiny Crackdown, U.S. Officials Say

The circumstances surrounding Gen. Sergei Surovikin’s status are still very murky. U.S. officials cautioned that the intelligence reports were not conclusive and could not provide further details.

By Helene Cooper, Julian E. Barnes and Eric Schmitt
Reporting from Washington

June 29, 2023, 3:02 p.m. ET
U.S. officials, citing early intelligence reports, say that Russian authorities appear to have detained a top general under suspicion that he was involved in or had knowledge of the planning for the Wagner Group’s failed rebellion.

The circumstances surrounding the status of the general, Sergei Surovikin, are still very murky. U.S. officials cautioned that the reports were not conclusive and said they could not provide further details.

American officials would not say — or do not know — if he was formally arrested or just held for questioning.

Focus in Russia on the fate of General Surovikin, the country’s former top commander in Ukraine, has been intense following a New York Times report that U.S. spy agencies believe that he knew ahead of time about the rebellion, led by Yevgeny V. Prigozhin, against Russia’s military leadership.

A senior NATO-country diplomat said that firm intelligence was lacking, but that careful comments by Kremlin spokesman Dmitri S. Peskov on Thursday in which he deflected questions about General Surovikin’s whereabouts seemed to confirm the general’s detention.

News of General Surovikin’s detention was earlier reported by The Financial Times.

There were conflicting reports in the Russian news media about General Surovikin’s fate. Some pro-war bloggers on the popular Telegram social network reported this week that he had been arrested, while others said that was not the case.

One popular account posted a recording of an interview with a woman it said was General Surovikin’s daughter, who denied that her father had been arrested. “Nothing happened to him,” she said. “He’s at his work location.” The account could not be independently verified.

American intelligence agencies have been trying to learn more about the general’s potential role in the rebellion: whether he simply knew about it or helped plan the revolt, which has come to be seen as the most dramatic threat to President Vladimir V. Putin in his 23 years in power.

The question is a critical one for Mr. Putin as well.

For years, Mr. Putin has allowed different factions to exist inside the Russian military. But after the short-lived mutiny, the Kremlin may be more likely to purge at least some of the senior officers who are less supportive of Sergei K. Shoigu, the defense minister.

Mr. Prigozhin had expressed rage against Russian military leadership for months before the revolt, concentrating most of his ire on Mr. Putin’s two senior military advisers: Mr. Shoigu and Gen. Valery V. Gerasimov, the chief of the general staff.

American officials said that Mr. Prigozhin’s failed rebellion could, at least for the time being, have the perverse effect of strengthening Mr. Shoigu’s hold on the top job, since Mr. Putin would not want to be seen as caving to Mr. Prigozhin.

Some Western analysts said the apparent detention of General Surovikin and uncertainty about the fate of other senior officers could hurt Russian troop morale.

“That there has not been a clear signal from the top about these very senior generals’ standing after the Prigozhin mutiny can’t be good for morale,” said Samuel Charap, a Russia analyst at the RAND Corporation.

“Surovikin in particular is known to be popular with the rank and file,” Mr. Charap said. “If he has been arrested and there is no explanation from the top, one can imagine his subordinates might be preoccupied with their own safety not the war.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/29/world/europe/sergey-surovikin-detained-russia.html?

Reply Quote

Date: 30/06/2023 09:08:42
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2049079
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Witty Rejoinder said:

“Surovikin in particular is known to be popular with the rank and file,” Mr. Charap said. “If he has been arrested and there is no explanation from the top, one can imagine his subordinates might be preoccupied with their own safety not the war.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/29/world/europe/sergey-surovikin-detained-russia.html?

It’s probably not so significant to Russia’s conscripts, who just want it to be over with in one way or another and to go home, but among the more professional parts of the Russian forces, the removal of popular leaders (probably because they seemed to give a damn about the troops and had some real ability – the usual reasons for popularity with the ranks) could cause trouble for the Russians.

If Shoigu and his lackeys are seen by the troops as people who are likely to get them killed through either or both of apathy towards them or professional incompetence, for little or no real purpose, they may become increasingly reluctant to obey orders from them.

It’s happened before – look at the state of morale and disaffection among Russian soldiers in the latter stages of their part in WW1. Mutiny was not uncommon, murder of officers, desertion, surrender on a large scale

Reply Quote

Date: 30/06/2023 09:12:47
From: Tamb
ID: 2049082
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

“Surovikin in particular is known to be popular with the rank and file,” Mr. Charap said. “If he has been arrested and there is no explanation from the top, one can imagine his subordinates might be preoccupied with their own safety not the war.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/29/world/europe/sergey-surovikin-detained-russia.html?

It’s probably not so significant to Russia’s conscripts, who just want it to be over with in one way or another and to go home, but among the more professional parts of the Russian forces, the removal of popular leaders (probably because they seemed to give a damn about the troops and had some real ability – the usual reasons for popularity with the ranks) could cause trouble for the Russians.

If Shoigu and his lackeys are seen by the troops as people who are likely to get them killed through either or both of apathy towards them or professional incompetence, for little or no real purpose, they may become increasingly reluctant to obey orders from them.

It’s happened before – look at the state of morale and disaffection among Russian soldiers in the latter stages of their part in WW1. Mutiny was not uncommon, murder of officers, desertion, surrender on a large scale


Like fragging in the Vietnam war.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/07/2023 20:53:20
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2049842
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

While the Ukrainian offensive gives every appearance of having slowed, or bogged down, the reality may be different.

Ukraine is nowhere as near as inconsiderate of its soldiers lives as are the Russians. Partly because they don’t want to see their people slaughtered (never has been a concern to Russian generals), and partly because they don’t have the manpower resources to waste in the way that the Russians do.

I think that what we’re seeing now is more or less a broad-fronted armed reconnaissance, probing to see where the seams and cracks are in the Russian defences. With a layered defence such as the Russians have built, you don’t just charge blindly at it and accept that wave after wave of your troops will go down (unless you’re Russian).

With the time-tested maxim of needing three times the number of attackers compared to defenders, careful intelligence gathering and planning is a high priority for the Ukrainians.

As well, the broad-fronted probing keeps the other side guessing as to just where an assault might come, making it harder for them to concentrate their forces.

Once they identify a likely point for forcing a line, resources will be mustered to assault it (which takes time, and care), and if the line can be breached, they’ll bring everything to bear on the Russian positions that have been identified, and they’ll pour through.

In situations like this, it can appear that little is happening for weeks on end, but then, suddenly, a whole lot happens very quickly indeed.

And then the routine is repeated for the next layer of defence.

The Ukrainians could go a couple of ways. One is to aim for Verkhni Tokmak which is a very important rail hub. Cut those lines, and the Russian supply situation in the west and south gets very dodgy indeed.

Another might be to aim to surround and cut off the city of Tokmak (just Tokmak) farther west. This would cut off the Tokmak airbase, and, given the importance Russians place on ‘holding’ cities, isolate who knows how many Russian troops in the city.

Or, they could push towards Mariupol. Again, not to directly ‘liberate; it, but to ensure that a lot of Russians are tied up in ‘defending’ it.

And the Russians have to try to cover all contingencies, including these three. Whereas the Ukrainians really need to concentrate on only one. It all depends on what the Ukrainians are learning about the Russian defences.

The utlimate aim of any push-through would be to reach the Sea of Azov, and divide the Russian forces. If they can do that, and hold that division, then the destruction of the Kerch bridge would severely disrupt supply to the whole southern occupied area and to Crimea, and put all that area under siege. A pretty strong position.

But, they will have to try to achieve their goals by October at the latest. After that, life gets a lot more difficult for everyone.

The next several weeks will tell.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/07/2023 21:06:20
From: party_pants
ID: 2049844
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

The destruction of that dam makes a huge difference too. On the upstream portion there is now no hope of an amphibious crossing, and the lake bed it too wet and soggy to cross by vehicle. Downstream the floodwaters have made everything too damp and soggy too to get heavy vehicles and equipment across in numbers. It is a bit of spanner in the works to any offensive they might have spent the last few weeks contemplating and planning.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/07/2023 21:14:10
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2049852
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


The destruction of that dam makes a huge difference too. On the upstream portion there is now no hope of an amphibious crossing, and the lake bed it too wet and soggy to cross by vehicle. Downstream the floodwaters have made everything too damp and soggy too to get heavy vehicles and equipment across in numbers. It is a bit of spanner in the works to any offensive they might have spent the last few weeks contemplating and planning.

Yeah, but that’s a long way down the river from the area i’m thinking of, east of Zaporizhzhia.

And flooding and bogginess is a double edged sword. It makes it just as hard for the Russians to move about in that area as it would be for the Ukrainians.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/07/2023 21:16:18
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2049854
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


party_pants said:

The destruction of that dam makes a huge difference too. On the upstream portion there is now no hope of an amphibious crossing, and the lake bed it too wet and soggy to cross by vehicle. Downstream the floodwaters have made everything too damp and soggy too to get heavy vehicles and equipment across in numbers. It is a bit of spanner in the works to any offensive they might have spent the last few weeks contemplating and planning.

Yeah, but that’s a long way down the river from the area i’m thinking of, east of Zaporizhzhia.

And flooding and bogginess is a double edged sword. It makes it just as hard for the Russians to move about in that area as it would be for the Ukrainians.


Its why the russians used tracked vehicles for all assault vehicles, they’ll be fine. Any attacks can be blunted by massive artillery and missile strikes.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/07/2023 21:17:49
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2049857
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

I still put my money on the red army

Reply Quote

Date: 2/07/2023 21:18:05
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2049858
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

The destruction of that dam makes a huge difference too. On the upstream portion there is now no hope of an amphibious crossing, and the lake bed it too wet and soggy to cross by vehicle. Downstream the floodwaters have made everything too damp and soggy too to get heavy vehicles and equipment across in numbers. It is a bit of spanner in the works to any offensive they might have spent the last few weeks contemplating and planning.

Yeah, but that’s a long way down the river from the area i’m thinking of, east of Zaporizhzhia.

And flooding and bogginess is a double edged sword. It makes it just as hard for the Russians to move about in that area as it would be for the Ukrainians.


Its why the russians used tracked vehicles for all assault vehicles, they’ll be fine. Any attacks can be blunted by massive artillery and missile strikes.

Ever seen a tank bogged in mud?

You really don’t understand what ‘bogged’ means until you have.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/07/2023 21:18:50
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2049859
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


I still put my money on the red army

Ain’t been no Red Army for decades, bro.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/07/2023 21:22:10
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2049862
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


wookiemeister said:

captain_spalding said:

Yeah, but that’s a long way down the river from the area i’m thinking of, east of Zaporizhzhia.

And flooding and bogginess is a double edged sword. It makes it just as hard for the Russians to move about in that area as it would be for the Ukrainians.


Its why the russians used tracked vehicles for all assault vehicles, they’ll be fine. Any attacks can be blunted by massive artillery and missile strikes.

Ever seen a tank bogged in mud?

You really don’t understand what ‘bogged’ means until you have.


Ukraine has a very deep fertile soil that absorbs moisture, it became well known in ww2 for the nazis. The cold got Napoleon, the mud got Hitler, better technology , strategy and fighting on home soil got NATO.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/07/2023 21:24:18
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2049865
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


captain_spalding said:

wookiemeister said:

…strategy and fighting on home soil got NATO.

Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

There’s an awful lot of Ukrainian people who would dispute the claim that the Russians are ‘fighting on home soil’.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/07/2023 21:24:40
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2049867
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


wookiemeister said:

captain_spalding said:

wookiemeister said:

…strategy and fighting on home soil got NATO.

Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

There’s an awful lot of Ukrainian people who would dispute the claim that the Russians are ‘fighting on home soil’.


Always been Russia I’m afraid

Reply Quote

Date: 2/07/2023 21:26:12
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2049869
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


captain_spalding said:

wookiemeister said:

captain_spalding said:

wookiemeister said:

…strategy and fighting on home soil got NATO.

Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

There’s an awful lot of Ukrainian people who would dispute the claim that the Russians are ‘fighting on home soil’.


Always been Russia I’m afraid

Y’know, New Zealand started off as part of NSW. Does the logic apply there, too?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/07/2023 21:27:58
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2049870
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

I mean, it was once NSW.

What right do the Kiwis have to suddenly up and decide that they’re a whole other country?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/07/2023 21:28:36
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2049871
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


wookiemeister said:

captain_spalding said:

Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

There’s an awful lot of Ukrainian people who would dispute the claim that the Russians are ‘fighting on home soil’.


Always been Russia I’m afraid

Y’know, New Zealand started off as part of NSW. Does the logic apply there, too?


NZ is rapidly going into the pages of history. Before the maoris lived another people – the maoris don’t have ownership issues because they ATE them. The NZ gov will be maori soon and have a name change.

Australia will go the same way – dead man walking

Reply Quote

Date: 2/07/2023 21:29:42
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2049873
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


captain_spalding said:

wookiemeister said:

Always been Russia I’m afraid

Y’know, New Zealand started off as part of NSW. Does the logic apply there, too?


NZ is rapidly going into the pages of history. Before the maoris lived another people – the maoris don’t have ownership issues because they ATE them. The NZ gov will be maori soon and have a name change.

Australia will go the same way – dead man walking

Maybe it’s not too late. Could we conceivably eat all of the Aboriginal people?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/07/2023 21:34:55
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2049874
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


wookiemeister said:

captain_spalding said:

Y’know, New Zealand started off as part of NSW. Does the logic apply there, too?


NZ is rapidly going into the pages of history. Before the maoris lived another people – the maoris don’t have ownership issues because they ATE them. The NZ gov will be maori soon and have a name change.

Australia will go the same way – dead man walking

Maybe it’s not too late. Could we conceivably eat all of the Aboriginal people?


I don’t think they would taste very nice

A tough jerky that smells like tobacco with a ten % volume.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/07/2023 21:36:58
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2049876
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


captain_spalding said:

wookiemeister said:

NZ is rapidly going into the pages of history. Before the maoris lived another people – the maoris don’t have ownership issues because they ATE them. The NZ gov will be maori soon and have a name change.

Australia will go the same way – dead man walking

Maybe it’s not too late. Could we conceivably eat all of the Aboriginal people?


I don’t think they would taste very nice

A tough jerky that smells like tobacco with a ten % volume.


I was blown away when I saw them going through BWS in a community – sheer idiocy when you consider the damage it’s done

Reply Quote

Date: 2/07/2023 21:53:55
From: party_pants
ID: 2049879
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


wookiemeister said:

captain_spalding said:

Y’know, New Zealand started off as part of NSW. Does the logic apply there, too?


NZ is rapidly going into the pages of history. Before the maoris lived another people – the maoris don’t have ownership issues because they ATE them. The NZ gov will be maori soon and have a name change.

Australia will go the same way – dead man walking

Maybe it’s not too late. Could we conceivably eat all of the Aboriginal people?

I watched some rather morbid video on the history of cannibalism the other day. Apparently children are quite a delicacy.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/07/2023 00:05:54
From: roughbarked
ID: 2049890
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


captain_spalding said:

wookiemeister said:

captain_spalding said:

wookiemeister said:

…strategy and fighting on home soil got NATO.

Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

There’s an awful lot of Ukrainian people who would dispute the claim that the Russians are ‘fighting on home soil’.


Always been Russia I’m afraid

No. Only the Soviet Union. Never Russia.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/07/2023 17:00:05
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2051670
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

I suppose if they’re only used on their own territory then Ukraine is entirely within its rights to use cluster munitions despite the long-term consequences.

What we need are cluster munitions capable of exploding anti-tank mines over an acre at a time.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/07/2023 17:33:52
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2051677
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Witty Rejoinder said:


I suppose if they’re only used on their own territory then Ukraine is entirely within its rights to use cluster munitions despite the long-term consequences.

What we need are cluster munitions capable of exploding anti-tank mines over an acre at a time.

That’s where fuel/air explosives come in.

Dropped from an aircraft, they quickly spread a cloud of fuel vapour over a large area, which is then ignited.

This produces a large pressure wave, which should set off mines underneath it.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/07/2023 17:40:49
From: Ian
ID: 2051684
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Witty Rejoinder said:


I suppose if they’re only used on their own territory then Ukraine is entirely within its rights to use cluster munitions despite the long-term consequences.

What we need are cluster munitions capable of exploding anti-tank mines over an acre at a time.

Leon Panetta, a former defence secretary and CIA director, said: “There isn’t a weapon used in warfare that doesn’t carry the risks of killing people. That’s what these weapons are all about.

“It’s also true that the Russians have used these munitions and have targeted civilian populations in attacks across Ukraine. When you’re facing an enemy that has no regard for the human costs involved, you have to figure out what step do you take to try to confront that kind of force?

“The Russians have got 180,000 Russians supposedly, combined with a huge number of mines that have been placed in the ground. They’re dug in, in defensive positions. From a straight strategy point of view, you have to find a way to break the Russian defensive position – and this is one of those ways.”

Garud

.

Hmmmm. No nice way to conduct a war.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/07/2023 17:43:41
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2051686
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Ian said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

I suppose if they’re only used on their own territory then Ukraine is entirely within its rights to use cluster munitions despite the long-term consequences.

What we need are cluster munitions capable of exploding anti-tank mines over an acre at a time.

Leon Panetta, a former defence secretary and CIA director, said: “There isn’t a weapon used in warfare that doesn’t carry the risks of killing people. That’s what these weapons are all about.

“It’s also true that the Russians have used these munitions and have targeted civilian populations in attacks across Ukraine. When you’re facing an enemy that has no regard for the human costs involved, you have to figure out what step do you take to try to confront that kind of force?

“The Russians have got 180,000 Russians supposedly, combined with a huge number of mines that have been placed in the ground. They’re dug in, in defensive positions. From a straight strategy point of view, you have to find a way to break the Russian defensive position – and this is one of those ways.”

Garud

.

Hmmmm. No nice way to conduct a war.

If you want to witness the lowest depths to which human beings can sink, visit a battlefield shortly after the shooting stops.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/07/2023 17:48:41
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2051690
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Cluster bombs are rather good ground-denial weapons.

If you drop a bomb on a runway, a truck and a bulldozer will have it filled, pronto.

If you drop a cluster bomb, and it scatters lots of little mines up and down and across the runway, then someone has to sit there for who knows how long trying to set them off one by one with a heavy-calibre rifle. And can you be sure that he got all of them?

Reply Quote

Date: 9/07/2023 16:59:42
From: party_pants
ID: 2052007
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

it is now 500 days into the 3 day war.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/07/2023 17:01:56
From: roughbarked
ID: 2052009
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


it is now 500 days into the 3 day war.

Heard that.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/07/2023 15:29:26
From: dv
ID: 2052804
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has agreed to back Sweden’s bid to join NATO after a year of blocking the move, citing Turkish security concerns.

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg announced on Monday that Erdogan agreed to forward Sweden’s membership bid to Turkey’s parliament.

After talks in Vilnius, Lithuania, with Erdogan and Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson, Stoltenberg said Turkey had agreed to move forward.

“I’m glad to announce … President Erdogan has agreed to forward the accession protocol for Sweden to the Grand National Assembly as soon as possible and work closely with the assembly to ensure ratification,” Stoltenberg said at a news conference.

“This is a historic day.”

—-

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/10/turkeys-erdogan-agrees-to-back-swedish-nato-bid-stoltenberg

Reply Quote

Date: 11/07/2023 15:30:31
From: Bubblecar
ID: 2052805
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has agreed to back Sweden’s bid to join NATO after a year of blocking the move, citing Turkish security concerns.

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg announced on Monday that Erdogan agreed to forward Sweden’s membership bid to Turkey’s parliament.

After talks in Vilnius, Lithuania, with Erdogan and Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson, Stoltenberg said Turkey had agreed to move forward.

“I’m glad to announce … President Erdogan has agreed to forward the accession protocol for Sweden to the Grand National Assembly as soon as possible and work closely with the assembly to ensure ratification,” Stoltenberg said at a news conference.

“This is a historic day.”

—-

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/10/turkeys-erdogan-agrees-to-back-swedish-nato-bid-stoltenberg

It’s good news.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/07/2023 15:33:06
From: Cymek
ID: 2052808
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bubblecar said:


dv said:

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has agreed to back Sweden’s bid to join NATO after a year of blocking the move, citing Turkish security concerns.

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg announced on Monday that Erdogan agreed to forward Sweden’s membership bid to Turkey’s parliament.

After talks in Vilnius, Lithuania, with Erdogan and Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson, Stoltenberg said Turkey had agreed to move forward.

“I’m glad to announce … President Erdogan has agreed to forward the accession protocol for Sweden to the Grand National Assembly as soon as possible and work closely with the assembly to ensure ratification,” Stoltenberg said at a news conference.

“This is a historic day.”

—-

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/10/turkeys-erdogan-agrees-to-back-swedish-nato-bid-stoltenberg

It’s good news.

Gift baskets of chocolate from Sweden did the trick

Reply Quote

Date: 11/07/2023 15:37:14
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2052811
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bubblecar said:


dv said:

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has agreed to back Sweden’s bid to join NATO after a year of blocking the move, citing Turkish security concerns.

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg announced on Monday that Erdogan agreed to forward Sweden’s membership bid to Turkey’s parliament.

After talks in Vilnius, Lithuania, with Erdogan and Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson, Stoltenberg said Turkey had agreed to move forward.

“I’m glad to announce … President Erdogan has agreed to forward the accession protocol for Sweden to the Grand National Assembly as soon as possible and work closely with the assembly to ensure ratification,” Stoltenberg said at a news conference.

“This is a historic day.”

—-

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/10/turkeys-erdogan-agrees-to-back-swedish-nato-bid-stoltenberg

It’s good news.

Someone in the Kremlin isn’t going to like this, Yogi…

Reply Quote

Date: 11/07/2023 15:41:04
From: Cymek
ID: 2052813
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


Bubblecar said:

dv said:

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has agreed to back Sweden’s bid to join NATO after a year of blocking the move, citing Turkish security concerns.

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg announced on Monday that Erdogan agreed to forward Sweden’s membership bid to Turkey’s parliament.

After talks in Vilnius, Lithuania, with Erdogan and Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson, Stoltenberg said Turkey had agreed to move forward.

“I’m glad to announce … President Erdogan has agreed to forward the accession protocol for Sweden to the Grand National Assembly as soon as possible and work closely with the assembly to ensure ratification,” Stoltenberg said at a news conference.

“This is a historic day.”

—-

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/10/turkeys-erdogan-agrees-to-back-swedish-nato-bid-stoltenberg

It’s good news.

Someone in the Kremlin isn’t going to like this, Yogi…

Russia really doesn’t have much to offer as an alternative

Reply Quote

Date: 11/07/2023 16:27:08
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 2052825
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has agreed to back Sweden’s bid to join NATO after a year of blocking the move, citing Turkish security concerns.

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg announced on Monday that Erdogan agreed to forward Sweden’s membership bid to Turkey’s parliament.

After talks in Vilnius, Lithuania, with Erdogan and Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson, Stoltenberg said Turkey had agreed to move forward.

“I’m glad to announce … President Erdogan has agreed to forward the accession protocol for Sweden to the Grand National Assembly as soon as possible and work closely with the assembly to ensure ratification,” Stoltenberg said at a news conference.

“This is a historic day.”

—-

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/10/turkeys-erdogan-agrees-to-back-swedish-nato-bid-stoltenberg

Keating reckons NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg is a fool.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/07/2023 16:43:51
From: Woodie
ID: 2052829
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Peak Warming Man said:


dv said:

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has agreed to back Sweden’s bid to join NATO after a year of blocking the move, citing Turkish security concerns.

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg announced on Monday that Erdogan agreed to forward Sweden’s membership bid to Turkey’s parliament.

After talks in Vilnius, Lithuania, with Erdogan and Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson, Stoltenberg said Turkey had agreed to move forward.

“I’m glad to announce … President Erdogan has agreed to forward the accession protocol for Sweden to the Grand National Assembly as soon as possible and work closely with the assembly to ensure ratification,” Stoltenberg said at a news conference.

“This is a historic day.”

—-

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/10/turkeys-erdogan-agrees-to-back-swedish-nato-bid-stoltenberg

Keating reckons NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg is a fool.

Exactly. He’s either a secretary or a general. He can’t be both.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/07/2023 16:57:40
From: dv
ID: 2052832
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Woodie said:


Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has agreed to back Sweden’s bid to join NATO after a year of blocking the move, citing Turkish security concerns.

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg announced on Monday that Erdogan agreed to forward Sweden’s membership bid to Turkey’s parliament.

After talks in Vilnius, Lithuania, with Erdogan and Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson, Stoltenberg said Turkey had agreed to move forward.

“I’m glad to announce … President Erdogan has agreed to forward the accession protocol for Sweden to the Grand National Assembly as soon as possible and work closely with the assembly to ensure ratification,” Stoltenberg said at a news conference.

“This is a historic day.”

—-

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/10/turkeys-erdogan-agrees-to-back-swedish-nato-bid-stoltenberg

Keating reckons NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg is a fool.

Exactly. He’s either a secretary or a general. He can’t be both.

I wonder who the Secretary-Special is.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/07/2023 17:09:36
From: roughbarked
ID: 2052834
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:


Woodie said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Keating reckons NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg is a fool.

Exactly. He’s either a secretary or a general. He can’t be both.

I wonder who the Secretary-Special is.

The white supremacist back there with the pointy blue tits.

Reply Quote

Date: 13/07/2023 19:31:21
From: dv
ID: 2053699
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Reply Quote

Date: 13/07/2023 19:47:56
From: roughbarked
ID: 2053706
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:



Of course, I’m not sure he is.

Reply Quote

Date: 15/07/2023 18:23:09
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2054619
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Reply Quote

Date: 17/07/2023 12:49:50
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2055116
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Looks like the Kerch bridge got walloped again.

https://opoyi.com/world/traffic-at-kerch-bridge-halted-amid-explosion/

Reply Quote

Date: 17/07/2023 17:42:09
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2055210
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

And yet, despite all this…

Reply Quote

Date: 17/07/2023 21:26:08
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2055298
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


And yet, despite all this…


The drones were being fed data by US / UK surveillance aircraft / drones

My guesses – Russia will start shooting them down

Reply Quote

Date: 18/07/2023 10:21:32
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2055378
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


captain_spalding said:

And yet, despite all this…


The drones were being fed data by US / UK surveillance aircraft / drones

My guesses – Russia will start shooting them down

What, shooting down the drones?

Now, there’s an idea. You should send an e-mail to the Kremlin, make sure they’ve not missed it.

‘Hey, fellas, those drones that cause so much trouble for you, have you tried shooting at them?’

Reply Quote

Date: 18/07/2023 10:26:22
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 2055381
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


wookiemeister said:

captain_spalding said:

And yet, despite all this…


The drones were being fed data by US / UK surveillance aircraft / drones

My guesses – Russia will start shooting them down

What, shooting down the drones?

Now, there’s an idea. You should send an e-mail to the Kremlin, make sure they’ve not missed it.

‘Hey, fellas, those drones that cause so much trouble for you, have you tried shooting at them?’

they were boat drones.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/07/2023 10:27:50
From: roughbarked
ID: 2055383
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

ChrispenEvan said:


captain_spalding said:

wookiemeister said:

The drones were being fed data by US / UK surveillance aircraft / drones

My guesses – Russia will start shooting them down

What, shooting down the drones?

Now, there’s an idea. You should send an e-mail to the Kremlin, make sure they’ve not missed it.

‘Hey, fellas, those drones that cause so much trouble for you, have you tried shooting at them?’

they were boat drones.

Weren’t they about to deploy submarine drones?

Reply Quote

Date: 18/07/2023 10:29:32
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 2055385
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

ChrispenEvan said:


captain_spalding said:

wookiemeister said:

The drones were being fed data by US / UK surveillance aircraft / drones

My guesses – Russia will start shooting them down

What, shooting down the drones?

Now, there’s an idea. You should send an e-mail to the Kremlin, make sure they’ve not missed it.

‘Hey, fellas, those drones that cause so much trouble for you, have you tried shooting at them?’

they were boat drones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGDCRwSNqYE

Link

Crimean Bridge Attacked Again — One Span Destroyed by Marine Drones

Suchomimus

Reply Quote

Date: 18/07/2023 10:31:59
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2055386
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

ChrispenEvan said:

ChrispenEvan said:

captain_spalding said:

What, shooting down the drones?

Now, there’s an idea. You should send an e-mail to the Kremlin, make sure they’ve not missed it.

‘Hey, fellas, those drones that cause so much trouble for you, have you tried shooting at them?’

they were boat drones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGDCRwSNqYE

Link

Crimean Bridge Attacked Again — One Span Destroyed by Marine Drones

Suchomimus

The Economy Must Grow ¡

Reply Quote

Date: 18/07/2023 10:35:43
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 2055389
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

ChrispenEvan said:


ChrispenEvan said:

captain_spalding said:

What, shooting down the drones?

Now, there’s an idea. You should send an e-mail to the Kremlin, make sure they’ve not missed it.

‘Hey, fellas, those drones that cause so much trouble for you, have you tried shooting at them?’

they were boat drones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGDCRwSNqYE

Link

Crimean Bridge Attacked Again — One Span Destroyed by Marine Drones

Suchomimus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIO1_K1Dtmc

Link

UKR 2nd Gen marine drone

Reply Quote

Date: 18/07/2023 10:37:58
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2055391
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

ChrispenEvan said:


ChrispenEvan said:

captain_spalding said:

What, shooting down the drones?

Now, there’s an idea. You should send an e-mail to the Kremlin, make sure they’ve not missed it.

‘Hey, fellas, those drones that cause so much trouble for you, have you tried shooting at them?’

they were boat drones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGDCRwSNqYE

Link

Crimean Bridge Attacked Again — One Span Destroyed by Marine Drones

Suchomimus

Yeah, i thought that they would be. You need a hefty payload to damage big things like bridges, and the boats, with 180 – 200 kg of explosives are a good vehicle. You need a pretty big flying drone to do the equivalent, or a rather expensive missile.

But, wookie was talking about shooting things down. If he means the EC-135s and RC-135s that the US and NATO have had orbiting on the fringes of the excitement, then the Russians will be signalling that (a) they’re utterly desperate, and (b) tired of living, because that’s when NATO will really release the hounds.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/07/2023 10:39:09
From: Cymek
ID: 2055392
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

SCIENCE said:

ChrispenEvan said:

ChrispenEvan said:

they were boat drones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGDCRwSNqYE

Link

Crimean Bridge Attacked Again — One Span Destroyed by Marine Drones

Suchomimus

The Economy Must Grow ¡

“Priority one — Ensure the economy grows. All other considerations secondary. Life expendable.”

Reply Quote

Date: 18/07/2023 10:45:35
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2055393
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

We haven’t seen ‘proper’ flying drones yet.

Old planes, even Cessnas and Pipers and Beechcraft, fitted with remote-control gear and packed with a really kick-arse load of explosives and flown into targets.

The idea is not new, both the Allies and the Germans tried it in WW2, with varying degrees of success (look up ‘Operation Aphrodite’ and ‘Mistel bombers’).

Maybe the planes would just be too easy for the Russians to shot down these days. Then again, maybe the Ukrainians just haven’t got around to it yet.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/07/2023 10:54:51
From: Cymek
ID: 2055394
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


We haven’t seen ‘proper’ flying drones yet.

Old planes, even Cessnas and Pipers and Beechcraft, fitted with remote-control gear and packed with a really kick-arse load of explosives and flown into targets.

The idea is not new, both the Allies and the Germans tried it in WW2, with varying degrees of success (look up ‘Operation Aphrodite’ and ‘Mistel bombers’).

Maybe the planes would just be too easy for the Russians to shot down these days. Then again, maybe the Ukrainians just haven’t got around to it yet.

I wonder how well high flying glide drones that only activate engines when directly above targets would work so they essential suicide dive at high speed.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/07/2023 11:05:18
From: Woodie
ID: 2055395
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


We haven’t seen ‘proper’ flying drones yet.

Old planes, even Cessnas and Pipers and Beechcraft, fitted with remote-control gear and packed with a really kick-arse load of explosives and flown into targets.

The idea is not new, both the Allies and the Germans tried it in WW2, with varying degrees of success (look up ‘Operation Aphrodite’ and ‘Mistel bombers’).

Maybe the planes would just be too easy for the Russians to shot down these days. Then again, maybe the Ukrainians just haven’t got around to it yet.

Here ya go. Give ‘em this nice shiny new one.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/07/2023 12:26:31
From: diddly-squat
ID: 2055410
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

ChrispenEvan said:


ChrispenEvan said:

captain_spalding said:

What, shooting down the drones?

Now, there’s an idea. You should send an e-mail to the Kremlin, make sure they’ve not missed it.

‘Hey, fellas, those drones that cause so much trouble for you, have you tried shooting at them?’

they were boat drones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGDCRwSNqYE

Link

Crimean Bridge Attacked Again — One Span Destroyed by Marine Drones

Suchomimus

I think attacking the bridge is a great strategic ploy but it’s seriously difficult to do any truly meaningful damage. Sure they can take out a span or two but these sorts of concrete structures are pre-fabricated leggo blocks and it’s really not that difficult to repair. I imagine the uncertainty of moving critical goods over the bridge is the effect they are after, along with trepidation of civilian travel.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/07/2023 12:37:40
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 2055414
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

diddly-squat said:


ChrispenEvan said:

ChrispenEvan said:

they were boat drones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGDCRwSNqYE

Link

Crimean Bridge Attacked Again — One Span Destroyed by Marine Drones

Suchomimus

I think attacking the bridge is a great strategic ploy but it’s seriously difficult to do any truly meaningful damage. Sure they can take out a span or two but these sorts of concrete structures are pre-fabricated leggo blocks and it’s really not that difficult to repair. I imagine the uncertainty of moving critical goods over the bridge is the effect they are after, along with trepidation of civilian travel.

they hit one of the pylons this time because they used marine drones. Plus they have hit the factory that makes the spans apparently.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/07/2023 12:40:38
From: Cymek
ID: 2055416
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

ChrispenEvan said:


diddly-squat said:

ChrispenEvan said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGDCRwSNqYE

Link

Crimean Bridge Attacked Again — One Span Destroyed by Marine Drones

Suchomimus

I think attacking the bridge is a great strategic ploy but it’s seriously difficult to do any truly meaningful damage. Sure they can take out a span or two but these sorts of concrete structures are pre-fabricated leggo blocks and it’s really not that difficult to repair. I imagine the uncertainty of moving critical goods over the bridge is the effect they are after, along with trepidation of civilian travel.

they hit one of the pylons this time because they used marine drones. Plus they have hit the factory that makes the spans apparently.

Could you also continue to attack anyone trying to repair the bridge

Reply Quote

Date: 18/07/2023 12:57:29
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2055419
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bridges are bastards of targets. They’re very hard to hit, and even when hit, their mostly open-work construction lets a lot of explosive force just pass right on by, so they’re harder to damage than e.g. a warehouse, or a factory, or whatever.

Wars from WW1 onwards are replete in their histories with examples of long and arduous campaigns to destroy particular bridges, costing great numbers of weapons, lives, and aircraft/vehicles.

And if the people who own the bridge are at all well organised and supplied, then 9 times out of 10, they’ll have it repaired and operating again pretty soon. It’s a structure that doesn’t have to house anything, or do anything, It just has to be there, so it’s not too complicated to restore to working order.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/07/2023 13:08:37
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2055431
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

ChrispenEvan said:

diddly-squat said:

ChrispenEvan said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGDCRwSNqYE

Link

Crimean Bridge Attacked Again — One Span Destroyed by Marine Drones

Suchomimus

I think attacking the bridge is a great strategic ploy but it’s seriously difficult to do any truly meaningful damage. Sure they can take out a span or two but these sorts of concrete structures are pre-fabricated leggo blocks and it’s really not that difficult to repair. I imagine the uncertainty of moving critical goods over the bridge is the effect they are after, along with trepidation of civilian travel.

they hit one of the pylons this time because they used marine drones. Plus they have hit the factory that makes the spans apparently.

How about dams then,

Reply Quote

Date: 23/07/2023 13:22:08
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2057263
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Reply Quote

Date: 23/07/2023 13:24:28
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 2057264
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

SCIENCE said:


ammo dump and logistic depot. saw a video on it this morn.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/08/2023 08:39:57
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2061648
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

ABC News:

Looks like the Russians won’t have one of their Ropucha-class landing ships for a while:

That drone definitely made it all the way.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/08/2023 08:52:21
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2061650
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


ABC News:

Looks like the Russians won’t have one of their Ropucha-class landing ships for a while:

That drone definitely made it all the way.


Its a type of cargo ship. The russians on the ship couldn’t be bothered to establish a watch to counter these drones.

In other news the Ukrainians are building massive cemeteries to house the influx of new customers. The offensive went nowhere, leopard 2s , yank APCs, pommie APCs litter the steppes. The russian defence lines are deep , all the destruction of Ukrainian forces is happening in the grey zone. A few more hundred thousand russians have volunteered to join the army – the russian juggernaut gathers further steam. The strategy is to destroy the Ukrainian military rather than take territory per se.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/08/2023 08:54:31
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2061651
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

Looks like the Russians won’t have one of their Ropucha-class landing ships for a while:

That drone definitely made it all the way.


Its a type of cargo ship. The russians on the ship couldn’t be bothered to establish a watch to counter these drones.

In other news the Ukrainians are building massive cemeteries to house the influx of new customers. The offensive went nowhere, leopard 2s , yank APCs, pommie APCs litter the steppes. The russian defence lines are deep , all the destruction of Ukrainian forces is happening in the grey zone. A few more hundred thousand russians have volunteered to join the army – the russian juggernaut gathers further steam. The strategy is to destroy the Ukrainian military rather than take territory per se.


From what I saw its a type of cargo ship.

Check out telegram and you’ll see lots of things you don’t see on the ABC. Thousands of images of smashed up, burnt out western armour.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/08/2023 09:02:06
From: roughbarked
ID: 2061653
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


ABC News:

Looks like the Russians won’t have one of their Ropucha-class landing ships for a while:

That drone definitely made it all the way.

Yes.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/08/2023 09:04:25
From: roughbarked
ID: 2061654
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


wookiemeister said:

captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

Looks like the Russians won’t have one of their Ropucha-class landing ships for a while:

That drone definitely made it all the way.


Its a type of cargo ship. The russians on the ship couldn’t be bothered to establish a watch to counter these drones.

In other news the Ukrainians are building massive cemeteries to house the influx of new customers. The offensive went nowhere, leopard 2s , yank APCs, pommie APCs litter the steppes. The russian defence lines are deep , all the destruction of Ukrainian forces is happening in the grey zone. A few more hundred thousand russians have volunteered to join the army – the russian juggernaut gathers further steam. The strategy is to destroy the Ukrainian military rather than take territory per se.


From what I saw its a type of cargo ship.

Check out telegram and you’ll see lots of things you don’t see on the ABC. Thousands of images of smashed up, burnt out western armour.

For your information, the ABC doesn’t shy away from showing the fact that Ukranian forces have huge losses. It is more that the Ukranians generally don’t release much information about their losses.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/08/2023 09:52:33
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2061667
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


wookiemeister said:

captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

Looks like the Russians won’t have one of their Ropucha-class landing ships for a while:

That drone definitely made it all the way.


Its a type of cargo ship. The russians on the ship couldn’t be bothered to establish a watch to counter these drones.

In other news the Ukrainians are building massive cemeteries to house the influx of new customers. The offensive went nowhere, leopard 2s , yank APCs, pommie APCs litter the steppes. The russian defence lines are deep , all the destruction of Ukrainian forces is happening in the grey zone. A few more hundred thousand russians have volunteered to join the army – the russian juggernaut gathers further steam. The strategy is to destroy the Ukrainian military rather than take territory per se.


From what I saw its a type of cargo ship.

Check out telegram and you’ll see lots of things you don’t see on the ABC. Thousands of images of smashed up, burnt out western armour.

Wookie, you can comfort yourself with whatever wishful thinking about ‘cargo ships’ that you like.

However, that silhouette is unmistakable to anyone who has any familiarity with Russian/Soviet/Warsaw Pact warships. And i’ve been studying them, for one reason or another, for over 40 years.

It’s a Ropucha-class large landing ship. You can find out more about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ropucha-class_landing_ship. And yes, they’re definitely part of the Black Sea Fleet, and they definitely operate from Novorossiysk. Have done for many, many years.

If you search about for images of Ropucha-class ships, you’ll readily agree that the target was a Ropucha. Any other conclusion would be seriously delusional.

Although, to be fair, landing ships could be thought of as a type of ‘cargo ship’. Cargo ships that carry 2 × 57 mm AK-725 double guns (Ropucha I), 1 × 76 mm AK-176 (Ropucha II), 2 × 30 122 mm rocket launcher A-215 Grad-M, Strela 2(SA-N-5) surface-to-air missile system (4 launchers), 2 × 30 mm AK-630 six-barreled gatling guns (Ropucha II)

Reply Quote

Date: 5/08/2023 10:01:58
From: roughbarked
ID: 2061672
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


wookiemeister said:

wookiemeister said:

Its a type of cargo ship. The russians on the ship couldn’t be bothered to establish a watch to counter these drones.

In other news the Ukrainians are building massive cemeteries to house the influx of new customers. The offensive went nowhere, leopard 2s , yank APCs, pommie APCs litter the steppes. The russian defence lines are deep , all the destruction of Ukrainian forces is happening in the grey zone. A few more hundred thousand russians have volunteered to join the army – the russian juggernaut gathers further steam. The strategy is to destroy the Ukrainian military rather than take territory per se.


From what I saw its a type of cargo ship.

Check out telegram and you’ll see lots of things you don’t see on the ABC. Thousands of images of smashed up, burnt out western armour.

Wookie, you can comfort yourself with whatever wishful thinking about ‘cargo ships’ that you like.

However, that silhouette is unmistakable to anyone who has any familiarity with Russian/Soviet/Warsaw Pact warships. And i’ve been studying them, for one reason or another, for over 40 years.

It’s a Ropucha-class large landing ship. You can find out more about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ropucha-class_landing_ship. And yes, they’re definitely part of the Black Sea Fleet, and they definitely operate from Novorossiysk. Have done for many, many years.

If you search about for images of Ropucha-class ships, you’ll readily agree that the target was a Ropucha. Any other conclusion would be seriously delusional.

Although, to be fair, landing ships could be thought of as a type of ‘cargo ship’. Cargo ships that carry 2 × 57 mm AK-725 double guns (Ropucha I), 1 × 76 mm AK-176 (Ropucha II), 2 × 30 122 mm rocket launcher A-215 Grad-M, Strela 2(SA-N-5) surface-to-air missile system (4 launchers), 2 × 30 mm AK-630 six-barreled gatling guns (Ropucha II)

Capacity

10 main battle tanks and 340 troops or 12 BTR and 340 troops or 3 main battle tanks, 3 2S9 Nona-S, 5 MT-LB, 4 army trucks and 313 troops or 500 tons of cargo
Reply Quote

Date: 5/08/2023 10:10:10
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2061675
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:


captain_spalding said:

wookiemeister said:

From what I saw its a type of cargo ship.

Check out telegram and you’ll see lots of things you don’t see on the ABC. Thousands of images of smashed up, burnt out western armour.

Wookie, you can comfort yourself with whatever wishful thinking about ‘cargo ships’ that you like.

However, that silhouette is unmistakable to anyone who has any familiarity with Russian/Soviet/Warsaw Pact warships. And i’ve been studying them, for one reason or another, for over 40 years.

It’s a Ropucha-class large landing ship. You can find out more about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ropucha-class_landing_ship. And yes, they’re definitely part of the Black Sea Fleet, and they definitely operate from Novorossiysk. Have done for many, many years.

If you search about for images of Ropucha-class ships, you’ll readily agree that the target was a Ropucha. Any other conclusion would be seriously delusional.

Although, to be fair, landing ships could be thought of as a type of ‘cargo ship’. Cargo ships that carry 2 × 57 mm AK-725 double guns (Ropucha I), 1 × 76 mm AK-176 (Ropucha II), 2 × 30 122 mm rocket launcher A-215 Grad-M, Strela 2(SA-N-5) surface-to-air missile system (4 launchers), 2 × 30 mm AK-630 six-barreled gatling guns (Ropucha II)

Capacity

10 main battle tanks and 340 troops or 12 BTR and 340 troops or 3 main battle tanks, 3 2S9 Nona-S, 5 MT-LB, 4 army trucks and 313 troops or 500 tons of cargo

The Indonesians operate some former East German ‘Frosch’ class landing ships that are very similar in profile, but rather smaller.

While the Frosch class were built in Germany, the Ropuchas were built in Poland, during the Warsaw Pact days i.e. in the 1970s. This is probably a factor in why they’re still in service.

That was a major value point to Russia in having Poland under its sway. They built good ships, generally better, more reliable, and longer-lasting than Soviet/Russian construction. The Ropuchas would be hard for the Russians to replace with anything as reliable and durable.

They did build a set of three ‘Ivan Rogov’ class large landing ships in Russia, but they proved to be rather the white elephants, and all have now been decommissioned, two of them scrapped, and one in limbo.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/08/2023 13:04:18
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2061744
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Either way the crew on the russian ship couldn’t be bothered having a competent night-watch. In a wartime situation they couldn’t be bothered to look from the deck.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/08/2023 13:06:25
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2061747
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

The russians were lucky it wasn’t sunk.

The latest horrorific news is 400,000 uko dead and presumably 4 X wounded or more

Reply Quote

Date: 5/08/2023 13:14:20
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2061752
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


Either way the crew on the russian ship couldn’t be bothered having a competent night-watch. In a wartime situation they couldn’t be bothered to look from the deck.

Well, it’s difficult to say.

If they were in a supposedly ‘secure’ port, or secure naval anchorage within a port, with its own defences like floating boom barriers and nets and its own guards and lookouts, then they might be excused for not mounting their own watch.

If they were just out in open, unsecured waters, then, yes, that’d be pretty slack.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/08/2023 13:17:59
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2061754
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


wookiemeister said:

Either way the crew on the russian ship couldn’t be bothered having a competent night-watch. In a wartime situation they couldn’t be bothered to look from the deck.

Well, it’s difficult to say.

If they were in a supposedly ‘secure’ port, or secure naval anchorage within a port, with its own defences like floating boom barriers and nets and its own guards and lookouts, then they might be excused for not mounting their own watch.

If they were just out in open, unsecured waters, then, yes, that’d be pretty slack.


Makes me wonder if you need to install floating booms around these ships to create distance – but then again, where do you stop ?

Reply Quote

Date: 5/08/2023 13:19:41
From: party_pants
ID: 2061755
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

These naval drones tend to be built to be very low profile, or even semi-submersible with just the communications antennae and cameras above the waterline. Same sort of shapes that drug smugglers have been using for decades. The are deliberately designed to be hard to see at sea.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/08/2023 13:23:34
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2061757
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


These naval drones tend to be built to be very low profile, or even semi-submersible with just the communications antennae and cameras above the waterline. Same sort of shapes that drug smugglers have been using for decades. The are deliberately designed to be hard to see at sea.

Yeah, it’s not like they’re painted in fluoro colours and showing navigation lights.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/08/2023 13:24:35
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2061758
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

If I were Russia I’d create a no go zone like the british in the Falklands war 200 miles or similar.

If other militaries go into the exclusion zone they just get sunk or shot out of the sky. US/ UK forces were directing these boats into the ships – so you’d want to shoot these things down.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/08/2023 18:13:46
From: ChrispenEvan
ID: 2061840
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3_7lk6ofRg

Link

TVP World

shot of ship hit by drone under tow into port. plus other stuff.

Reply Quote

Date: 5/08/2023 19:00:52
From: roughbarked
ID: 2061860
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

A Russian tanker is damaged in a Ukrainian drone attack in the Kerch Strait briefly halting traffic on the strategic bridge linking Crimea to Russia, Russian maritime officials say.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/08/2023 12:18:43
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2062844
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Michael V said:

Bloody!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-08/russia-unveils-history-textbooks-praising-ukraine-offensive/102701658

Good to see that they have joined the found weapons of mass destruction justifying a celebrated regime change club¡

Reply Quote

Date: 10/08/2023 16:16:26
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2063678
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Putin chokes on the Ukrainian ‘porcupine’

By David Ignatius
Columnist

As the Ukrainian military grinds forward in a costly summer offensive that hasn’t yet produced a breakthrough, there’s a palpable frustration in Kyiv and in Washington. Maybe it’s a useful moment to recall one of Ukraine’s hidden strengths. Biden administration officials called it the “porcupine strategy.”

Here’s how I paraphrased one White House official’s description of the challenge ahead in January 2022, a month before Russian President Vladimir Putin launched his full-scale attack: “How can the United States and its allies help Ukraine become a porcupine — a prickly, stubborn nation that would be hard for an invading Russian army to digest?”

Whatever else you might say about the Ukraine war, that strategy has worked. Ukraine has proved utterly indigestible for the Russian military. Putin’s assault on Kyiv in the early months was a disastrous failure. The porcupine pushed the invaders back last year in Kharkiv and Kherson. And now, kilometer by kilometer, Ukraine is slowly advancing in the south and east.

“We adopted a strategy to make it as challenging as possible for Russia” if it invaded, explained Jon Finer, the deputy national security adviser. And it worked: Russia didn’t swallow Ukraine, and it probably never will.

Ukraine’s goal has now shifted from blocking the invaders to driving them out. But breaching Russian minefields has been agonizingly difficult — and costly in lives and equipment. Ukraine might yet achieve its goal of cutting the Russian corridor to Crimea this year and putting that prize at risk. But in just three months, October’s mud is likely to stall Ukraine’s advance.

Putin still seems to believe he can exhaust Ukraine. Perhaps he imagines that if his battered army holds on, a pliant Donald Trump will return to the White House and give him what he wants. But Putin must contend with what I’d call the “three Ps” — a propaganda battle that he’s losing; a partisan warfare campaign inside territories Russia claims to have annexed; and growing political fragmentation at home.

“‘Waiting us out’ may be a bad bet on their part,” argues one senior administration official. I think he’s right.

On the propaganda front, the fence-sitters of the Global South appear to be leaning toward Ukraine. Representatives of Brazil, India, South Africa and Turkey met this past weekend in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, to hear Ukrainian officials outline a peace proposal that centers on full withdrawal of Russian forces. A Chinese representative attended the gathering, which Ukraine’s foreign minister called a “breakthrough” and “a historic victory.”

Russia’s response has been denial: Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov sputtered that the “futile” meeting was “doomed to failure.”

Let’s turn to partisan warfare, and Ukraine’s armed resistance to Russia’s attempts to swallow the four regions it “annexed” last year. Social media reports describe a string of guerrilla attacks this year. Take the Zaporizhzhia region that borders the Sea of Azov: Russian officials or collaborators there were hit by two car bombs in January; an IED in February; a car bomb in March; a bomb in April; and two car bombs, a blown railway line and a sniper attack in June.

Partisans in occupied Crimea reportedly blew up a gas pipeline in March and attacked railway lines in May and June and an ammunition dump in July. It’s a dirty war. Fighters are said to have attacked one collaborator while he was in a barber shop in Luhansk; they reportedly poisoned Russian officers who were celebrating Russian Navy Day in Mariupol, killing two and wounding 15.

Russia has cruelly tried to suppress resistance in these regions — transporting children from the occupied areas to Russia and forcing residents to obtain Russian passports for medical care. These ghastly tactics are reminiscent of Joseph Stalin’s attempts to transfer populations and redraw borders. But the result now for Russia will probably be to create more indigestible lumps of opposition.

Putin might imagine he can turn Ukraine into another “frozen conflict” if he drags the fighting on. But a generation of Ukrainians is learning to hate Russians, and the guerrilla-style combat will continue. Ukraine’s goal “is to put the lie to Russia’s claim of annexation and show how costly this will be,” says the senior U.S. official.

Finally, Putin faces increasing problems at home because of the convulsions created by his misadventure in Ukraine. A brilliant summary of Russia’s growing political disarray was published in Foreign Affairs this week by Tatiana Stanovaya, a well-connected analyst with the Carnegie Russian Center.

“The war has begun to change Russia, and profound internal shifts are likely underway — in Putin’s regime, in the elites’ perception of Putin, and in the public’s attitude toward the war,” she writes.

A fragmenting, demoralized Russia is a devil’s playground. In their disorientation, Russians seek order and victory. According to internal polls cited by Stanovaya, Russians support Putin more strongly than before the war, they’re angrier at the West and they express strong support for their troops. Russia’s internal disarray poses a severe dilemma for Putin, but it’s very dangerous for the West, too.

The simple fact is that Russia is choking on Ukraine. The porcupine won’t get any easier to swallow, no matter how long the war lasts.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/08/putin-russia-ukraine-war-strategy/?

Reply Quote

Date: 12/08/2023 11:13:17
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2064260
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Eastern Anti-Corruption Purges Violate Human Rights

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-12/ukraine-president-fires-officials-in-bid-to-stop-corruption/102722410

Reply Quote

Date: 17/08/2023 00:10:27
From: dv
ID: 2065798
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Ukraine retakes village: Kyiv said Wednesday its forces have liberated the village of Urozhaine in the eastern Donetsk region, where fierce battles have taken place in recent days. Urozhaine, located about 100 kilometers southwest of Russian-occupied Donetsk city, lies near the village of Staromaiorske, which Ukrainian soldiers recaptured about two weeks ago.

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-08-16-23/h_e1bba9ea2987e58c27fba6f73e93be13

Reply Quote

Date: 18/08/2023 10:43:34
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2066237
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Running out of money: Vladimir Putin’s moment of truth has arrived

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
August 17, 2023 — 11.14am

The curse of August has struck again in Russia. The long-awaited currency crisis has finally hit as a collapse in usable energy revenues bleeds the Kremlin dry, and the slow damage of G7 sanctions eats away at the country’s economic foundations.

The rouble has fallen by 40 per cent since November, when it became clear what Russia was up against: an unbroken Ukraine able to pack a military punch; a West that was refusing to fracture; and an oil price cap that the Kremlin never thought would happen.

The pace of devaluation has quickened since the Prigozhin mutiny. Over the last week, the rouble has broken its mooring, briefly blowing through the psychological line of 100 to the dollar. The central bank raised interest rates to 12 per cent in an emergency move on Tuesday but this has so far failed to restore confidence.

Russia now faces a drastic tightening of financial conditions and a currency slide at at the same time.

Vladimir Putin can no longer maintain his line that the exchange rate slide is a calibrated and deliberate move in budget management. He touted rouble strength all last year as proof of Russia’s economic invulnerability.

“They are talking about it in every kitchen in Russia,” said financial journalist Orlon Skim.

Tim Ash from Chatham House said the devaluation is an internal propaganda disaster and “the clearest signal yet that the oil price cap and sanctions are working”.

Russia is running out of usable hard currency, to the point where Aeroflot has been landing at least nine of its Boeing and Airbus passenger jets with their brakes switched off because the airline is struggling to obtain parts at viable cost, and can no longer service its fleet in the West.

Pilots have to rely on reverse-thrust alone. A leaked memo obtained by Aviatorschina warned them of the risk of “overrunning the runway” in wet weather. This is a country in dire straits. Only in the magical world of Russian statistics did the economy grow 4.9 per cent in the second quarter, year-on-year.

Russia can, of course, buy anything it really needs on the global black market, mostly funnelled through Turkey, Dubai, or central Asia. German exports to Kazakhstan are up 105 per cent over the last year.

Russia has switched to Chinese semiconductors – as well as cannibalising dishwashers and fridges – but these are mostly workhouse chips, too low-tech for advanced warfare. It would take years to configure Chinese circuits for Russia’s existing industrial system, and so far Chinese companies have been strikingly reluctant to do so.

The weapons captured or shot down in Ukraine overwhelmingly contain US chips acquired before the war. Russia has an elaborate smuggling network to obtain replacements but this costs hard currency. That is what Putin no longer has.

Russia enjoyed a revenue bonanza last year from booming energy, metal, and grain prices. Commodity revenues pushed the current account surplus to 20 per cent of GDP, allowing Putin to finance the war and uphold the social welfare contract at the same time.

That surplus has largely evaporated. Ash said Russian energy sales to Europe have dropped to €2 billion ($3.4 billion) a month from €12 billion a month last year. Gazprom has essentially lost its €60 billion annual gas market in Europe forever. The gas pipelines from the west Siberian fields cannot be switched to China without vast investment.

Putin is still selling near record volumes of oil, as intended under the sanctions regime. The point of the $US60 oil cap is to keep the world economy well-supplied with crude, while depriving the Kremlin of a slice of the earnings.

Either Putin ships his oil though the Western-controlled nexus of tankers and insurance, and accepts the price cap; or he ships it in his own shadow fleet with complex and costly refuelling off Gibraltar or the Greek islands. He loses $US8 to $US10 a barrel sending the oil halfway around the world to Asia. The Indians and the Chinese know he is a distressed seller and are driving a hard bargain.

The International Energy Agency says the discount on Russian Urals crude has narrowed. The price averaged $US64 in July but that is still significantly lower than Brent near $US80 at that time. How much of that reaches Russia after transport costs and fees for middlemen is an open question.

To the extent that we can believe any Russian data at this stage, Kremlin revenues collapsed by 47 per cent in the first half of the year. The budget deficit is running at an annualised pace of $US50 billion ($77.5 billion) even on the official figures. The Kremlin cannot borrow abroad and lacks a deep and liquid bond market at home.

Some $US330 billion of foreign exchange reserves are frozen under G7 sanctions. The remaining $US260 billion are not all liquid or usable. The central bank estimates that $US253 billion of capital has left the country since the war began.

The Kremlin is now raiding private companies, forcing them to pay “voluntary” contributions to the war effort. The founders of Yandex, Russia’s “Google”, the telecom company Vimpelcom, and the digital bank Tinkoff have all been driven into exile, effectively expropriated or coerced into selling cheaply.

Putin is seizing the assets of Western companies. Danone, Carlsberg, Forum, and Uniper, have all been targeted, partly in order to distribute patronage to loyalists and shore up the regime. Those that leave have to sell their subsidiaries at a minimum discount of 50 per cent, and then pay a 10 per cent exit tax. It cost BP $US24 billion to write off its 20 per cent holding of Rosneft.

Covering the budget shortfall by this sort of scavenging has reached its limits. The falling rouble flatters the fiscal deficit because it raises the nominal rouble revenues from oil exports, but that effect is quickly overwhelmed by the inflationary sting in the tail.

Russia enjoyed a revenue bonanza last year from booming energy, metal, and grain prices but that surplus has largely evaporated.
Russia enjoyed a revenue bonanza last year from booming energy, metal, and grain prices but that surplus has largely evaporated. CREDIT:AP

The treasury has had to dip into the national welfare fund, down $US16 billion since May to $US146 billion, and not all of that is liquid. The Kremlin has suspended the budget rule requiring that a share of energy revenues is salted away in foreign assets. This move failed to stabilise the rouble.

Russia is now caught in a classic emerging market crisis. The more that Putin’s circle tries to scapegoat central bank chief Elvira Nabiullina, the technocrat holding Russia’s finances together, the greater the likelihood of igniting an inflation-devaluation spiral, with no possibility of an IMF bail-out when it all goes wrong.

This may not yet be the final chapter for Putin but the rouble crisis rebuts the widely repeated claim that time works to his advantage in Ukraine. He is running out of plunder to buy off the hard-bitten business interests and private militias that underpin his regime.

A reader of this newsletter suggested that the West should lift all sanctions against Russian oligarchs instead of hounding them, except for those actively aiding the war. They should be encouraged to bring as much money as possible to Zurich, London, or New York, safe in the knowledge that it will not be frozen.

I agree. The imperative is to split the Russian elite and quicken capital flight. A run on the rouble is the financial equivalent of Storm Shadow missiles.

https://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/money-crisis-vladimir-putin-s-moment-of-truth-has-arrived-20230816-p5dwv7.html?

Reply Quote

Date: 18/08/2023 11:20:15
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 2066244
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Witty Rejoinder said:


Russia is running out of usable hard currency, to the point where Aeroflot has been landing at least nine of its Boeing and Airbus passenger jets with their brakes switched off because the airline is struggling to obtain parts at viable cost, and can no longer service its fleet in the West.

Pilots have to rely on reverse-thrust alone. A leaked memo obtained by Aviatorschina warned them of the risk of “overrunning the runway” in wet weather. This is a country in dire straits. Only in the magical world of Russian statistics did the economy grow 4.9 per cent in the second quarter, year-on-year.

Can’t be right, reverse thrust only will not stop the plane before the end of the runway, nor are the reversers good enough to control the plane accurately enough when parking.

Well that’s for the 747’s at least, as we tried it a number of times in the simulator, and trying to stop with reverse only had us going off the end of a 4 km long runway at about 60 kts. But to be fair, once the plane sinks into the soft ground past the end of the runway they’ll stop. A bit of a bother getting them going again though.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/08/2023 11:32:08
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2066665
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

enters Wookie mode

What they needs is 10,000 special forces led paratroopers dropped behind Russia’s lines

U.S. intelligence says Ukraine will fail to meet offensive’s key goal

Thwarted by minefields, Ukrainian forces won’t reach the southeastern city of Melitopol, a vital Russian transit hub, according to a U.S. intelligence assessment

By John Hudson and Alex Horton
August 17, 2023 at 7:55 p.m. EDT

The U.S. intelligence community assesses that Ukraine’s counteroffensive will fail to reach the key southeastern city of Melitopol, people familiar with the classified forecast told The Washington Post, a finding that, should it prove correct, would mean Kyiv won’t fulfill its principal objective of severing Russia’s land bridge to Crimea in this year’s push.

The grim assessment is based on Russia’s brutal proficiency in defending occupied territory through a phalanx of minefields and trenches, and is likely to prompt finger pointing inside Kyiv and Western capitals about why a counteroffensive that saw tens of billions of dollars of Western weapons and military equipment fell short of its goals.

Ukraine’s forces, which are pushing toward Melitopol from the town of Robotyne more than 50 miles away, will remain several miles outside of the city, U.S. officials said. U.S., Western and Ukrainian government officials interviewed for this report spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive military operations.

The Office of the Director of National Intelligence declined to comment.

Melitopol is critical to Ukraine’s counteroffensive because it is considered the gateway to Crimea. The city is at the intersection of two important highways and a railroad line that allow Russia to move military personnel and equipment from the peninsula to other occupied territories in southern Ukraine.

Ukraine launched the counteroffensive in early June hoping to replicate its stunning success in last fall’s push through the Kharkiv region.

But in the first week of fighting, Ukraine incurred major casualties against Russia’s well-prepared defenses despite having a range of newly acquired Western equipment, including U.S. Bradley Fighting Vehicles, German-made Leopard 2 tanks and specialized mine-clearing vehicles.

Joint war games conducted by the U.S., British and Ukrainian militaries anticipated such losses but envisioned Kyiv accepting the casualties as the cost of piercing through Russia’s main defensive line, said U.S. and Western officials.

But Ukraine chose to stem the losses on the battlefield and switch to a tactic of relying on smaller units to push forward across different areas of the front. That resulted in Ukraine making incremental gains in different pockets over the summer.

Kyiv has recently dedicated more reserves to the front, including Stryker and Challenger units, but has yet to break through Russia’s main defensive line.

The path to Melitopol is an extremely challenging one, and even recapturing closer cities such as Tokmak will be difficult, said Rob Lee, a military analyst with the Foreign Policy Research Institute.

“Russia has three main defensive lines there and then fortified cities after that,” he said. “It’s not just a question about whether Ukraine can breach one or two of them, but can they breach all three and have enough forces available after taking attrition to achieve something more significant like taking Tokmak or something beyond that.”

The bleak outlook, briefed to some Republicans and Democrats on Capitol Hill, has already prompted a blame game inside closed-door meetings. Some Republicans are now balking at President Biden’s request for an additional $20.6 billion in Ukraine aid given the offensive’s modest results. Other Republicans and, to a lesser extent, hawkish Democrats have faulted the administration for not sending more powerful weapons to Ukraine sooner.

U.S. officials reject criticisms that F-16 fighter jets or longer-range missile systems such as ATACMS would have resulted in a different outcome. “The problem remains piercing Russia’s main defensive line, and there’s no evidence these systems would’ve been a panacea,” a senior administration official said.

In an interview this week, Gen. Mark A. Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said the United States has been clear about the difficult task facing Ukraine.

“I had said a couple of months ago that this offensive was going to be long, it’s going to be bloody it’s going to be slow,” he told The Post. “And that’s exactly what it is: long, bloody and slow, and it’s a very, very difficult fight.”

While not achieving its objectives, he noted Kyiv’s success in degrading Russian forces. “The Russians are in pretty rough shape,” he said. “They’ve suffered a huge amount of casualties. Their morale is not great.”

U.S. officials said the Pentagon recommended multiple times that Ukraine concentrate a large mass of forces on a single breakthrough point. Though Ukraine opted for a different strategy, officials said it was Kyiv’s call to make given the profound sacrifice Ukrainian troops were making on the battlefield.

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba on Thursday acknowledged the slow pace of Ukraine’s counteroffensive but said Kyiv would not stop fighting until all its land is retaken. “We don’t care how long it takes,” he told the news agency Agence France-Presse.

He encouraged critics of the offensive to “go and join the foreign legion” if they wanted faster results. “It’s easy to say that you want everything to be faster when you are not there,” he said.

Ukrainian officials have said privately that timing depends on how quickly forces can penetrate the minefields — a difficult process that has strained the military’s mine-clearing resources across a wide swath of territory.

Analysts say the challenges Ukraine has faced are multifaceted, but nearly all agree that Russia surpassed expectations when it comes to its proficiency in defending occupied territory.

“The most deterministic factor of how this offensive has gone thus far is the quality of Russian defenses,” said Lee, noting Russia’s use of trenches, mines and aviation. “They had a lot of time and they prepared them very well … and made it very difficult for Ukraine to advance.” committed its forces and in which areas.

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The Ukrainians have for months poured tremendous resources into Bakhmut, including soldiers, ammunition and time, but they have lost control of the city and have made only modest gains in capturing territory around it. And while the close-in, trench-line fighting is different in Bakhmut from the problem of mines in the south, the focus has left some in the Biden administration concerned that overcommitting in the east may have eroded the potency of the counteroffensive in the south.

The new intelligence assessment aligns with a secret U.S. forecast from February indicating that shortfalls in equipment and force strength may mean that the counteroffensive will fall “well short” of Ukraine’s goal to sever the land bridge to Crimea by August. The assessment, detailed in a classified document leaked onto the social media app Discord, identified Melitopol or Mariupol as the objectives “to deny Russian overland access to Crimea.”

U.S. officials said Washington was still open to Kyiv surprising skeptics and overcoming the odds. One defense official said it is possible that Ukraine could buck historical norms and continue the counteroffensive through the winter, when everything including keeping soldiers warm and stocked with food and ammunition becomes much more difficult.

But that would rely on several important factors, such as the amount of rest troops need after a hard fighting season. It would also depend on how much specialized equipment and cold-weather clothing they have on hand, the defense official said. But Moscow may also outperform during winter military operations.

“Russians are known to be capable of fighting in cold weather,” the official said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/08/17/ukraine-counteroffensive-melitopol/?

Reply Quote

Date: 19/08/2023 11:34:52
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2066669
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

LOL

https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-general-armageddon-sergei-surovikin-removed-military-leadership-under-house-arrest-reports/

Reply Quote

Date: 20/08/2023 10:08:58
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2066988
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

So.

An “abnormal situation” has struck Russia’s Luna-25 spacecraft as it was preparing to transfer to its pre-landing orbit, Russia’s national space agency Roskosmos says.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/08/2023 10:12:48
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2066991
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

SCIENCE said:

So.

An “abnormal situation” has struck Russia’s Luna-25 spacecraft as it was preparing to transfer to its pre-landing orbit, Russia’s national space agency Roskosmos says.

It’ll be interesting to see how they blame this on the Ukes.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/08/2023 18:26:30
From: monkey skipper
ID: 2067122
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/ukraine-continues-to-target-moscow-with-drone-strikes-forcing-the-city-to-shut-down-its-airports/ar-AA1fuUqu

Ukraine continues to target Moscow with drone strikes, forcing the city to shut down its airports

Reply Quote

Date: 20/08/2023 18:36:24
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 2067128
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

monkey skipper said:


https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/ukraine-continues-to-target-moscow-with-drone-strikes-forcing-the-city-to-shut-down-its-airports/ar-AA1fuUqu

Ukraine continues to target Moscow with drone strikes, forcing the city to shut down its airports

Excellent.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/08/2023 19:13:32
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2067141
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

monkey skipper said:


https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/ukraine-continues-to-target-moscow-with-drone-strikes-forcing-the-city-to-shut-down-its-airports/ar-AA1fuUqu

Ukraine continues to target Moscow with drone strikes, forcing the city to shut down its airports

Gosh, it’s almost like invading another country on bullshit premises might have…well, consequences?

(Other countries might do well to take note.)

Reply Quote

Date: 20/08/2023 23:14:04
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2067201
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

So.

An “abnormal situation” has struck Russia’s Luna-25 spacecraft as it was preparing to transfer to its pre-landing orbit, Russia’s national space agency Roskosmos says.

It’ll be interesting to see how they blame this on the Ukes.

Deep mining¡

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-20/russia-luna-25-spacecraft-crashes-onto-moon/102753294

Reply Quote

Date: 22/08/2023 15:35:23
From: buffy
ID: 2067580
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

I suppose this is the place to put this. Terrorist attack on a military base?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-22/ukrainian-drone-destroys-russian-supersonic-bomber/102759464

Reply Quote

Date: 22/08/2023 15:45:54
From: roughbarked
ID: 2067582
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

buffy said:


I suppose this is the place to put this. Terrorist attack on a military base?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-22/ukrainian-drone-destroys-russian-supersonic-bomber/102759464

A terrorist attack and one aircraft was damaged.. the fire was put out quickly. Looks like a lot more fire than the Russians were willing to admit.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/08/2023 15:56:59
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 2067584
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

buffy said:


I suppose this is the place to put this. Terrorist attack on a military base?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-22/ukrainian-drone-destroys-russian-supersonic-bomber/102759464

It seems to be quite a fair way from the Ukrainian border. It would be difficult for Ukrainian special service (or the like) to manage that I’d guess. Possible more likely the Russians messed something up and made fireworks.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/08/2023 16:39:45
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 2067591
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Spiny Norman said:


buffy said:

I suppose this is the place to put this. Terrorist attack on a military base?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-22/ukrainian-drone-destroys-russian-supersonic-bomber/102759464

It seems to be quite a fair way from the Ukrainian border. It would be difficult for Ukrainian special service (or the like) to manage that I’d guess. Possible more likely the Russians messed something up and made fireworks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggs5jZ3avzI

Link

Local partisans.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/08/2023 16:43:39
From: Cymek
ID: 2067593
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bogsnorkler said:


Spiny Norman said:

buffy said:

I suppose this is the place to put this. Terrorist attack on a military base?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-22/ukrainian-drone-destroys-russian-supersonic-bomber/102759464

It seems to be quite a fair way from the Ukrainian border. It would be difficult for Ukrainian special service (or the like) to manage that I’d guess. Possible more likely the Russians messed something up and made fireworks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggs5jZ3avzI

Link

Local partisans.

Seems these bombers were poorly built and maintained also

Reply Quote

Date: 22/08/2023 16:44:01
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 2067594
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bogsnorkler said:


Spiny Norman said:

buffy said:

I suppose this is the place to put this. Terrorist attack on a military base?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-22/ukrainian-drone-destroys-russian-supersonic-bomber/102759464

It seems to be quite a fair way from the Ukrainian border. It would be difficult for Ukrainian special service (or the like) to manage that I’d guess. Possible more likely the Russians messed something up and made fireworks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggs5jZ3avzI

Link

Local partisans.

I know the Russians are the bad guys as such, but I do quite like the Tupolev Tu-22M, they are a rather good looking machine I reckon.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/08/2023 16:46:08
From: Cymek
ID: 2067595
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Spiny Norman said:


Bogsnorkler said:

Spiny Norman said:

It seems to be quite a fair way from the Ukrainian border. It would be difficult for Ukrainian special service (or the like) to manage that I’d guess. Possible more likely the Russians messed something up and made fireworks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggs5jZ3avzI

Link

Local partisans.

I know the Russians are the bad guys as such, but I do quite like the Tupolev Tu-22M, they are a rather good looking machine I reckon.

Swing wing jets are sexy

Reply Quote

Date: 22/08/2023 16:47:09
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 2067596
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Cymek said:


Spiny Norman said:

Bogsnorkler said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggs5jZ3avzI

Link

Local partisans.

I know the Russians are the bad guys as such, but I do quite like the Tupolev Tu-22M, they are a rather good looking machine I reckon.

Swing wing jets are sexy

Yeah!

Reply Quote

Date: 25/08/2023 21:49:43
From: Kingy
ID: 2068732
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Putin was halfway through his speech about just how much of a loss his “chef” and personal “friend” was, when he realised that his murder was scheduled for the next day.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/09/2023 18:15:22
From: dv
ID: 2073368
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

https://youtu.be/sbBLwbLya7Q?si=v-8ORTbUlS7FZj6M

One of NATO’S weakpoints: The Suwalki Gap

Reply Quote

Date: 9/09/2023 18:28:16
From: roughbarked
ID: 2073381
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:


https://youtu.be/sbBLwbLya7Q?si=v-8ORTbUlS7FZj6M

One of NATO’S weakpoints: The Suwalki Gap

It is a thin line.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/09/2023 18:34:11
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2073385
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:


https://youtu.be/sbBLwbLya7Q?si=v-8ORTbUlS7FZj6M

One of NATO’S weakpoints: The Suwalki Gap

It’s a problem. But, Kaliningrad’s garrisons and their equipment and stores have, reportedly, been severely depleted to feed the conflict i eastern UIkraine.

So, right now at least, Kaliningrad may not be the sturdy pillar of a narrow gateway that it might have been until recently.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/09/2023 18:35:38
From: roughbarked
ID: 2073387
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


dv said:

https://youtu.be/sbBLwbLya7Q?si=v-8ORTbUlS7FZj6M

One of NATO’S weakpoints: The Suwalki Gap

It’s a problem. But, Kaliningrad’s garrisons and their equipment and stores have, reportedly, been severely depleted to feed the conflict i eastern UIkraine.

So, right now at least, Kaliningrad may not be the sturdy pillar of a narrow gateway that it might have been until recently.

At least we haven’t seen satellite footage of many trucks and trains heading there packed to the hilt with weaponry.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/09/2023 18:44:14
From: party_pants
ID: 2073394
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


dv said:

https://youtu.be/sbBLwbLya7Q?si=v-8ORTbUlS7FZj6M

One of NATO’S weakpoints: The Suwalki Gap

It’s a problem. But, Kaliningrad’s garrisons and their equipment and stores have, reportedly, been severely depleted to feed the conflict i eastern UIkraine.

So, right now at least, Kaliningrad may not be the sturdy pillar of a narrow gateway that it might have been until recently.

The first sign of trouble from the Russians against NATO, NATO will take Kaliningrad. I’m sure there are already several plans drawn up for it in NATO HQ.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/09/2023 18:45:30
From: roughbarked
ID: 2073395
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


captain_spalding said:

dv said:

https://youtu.be/sbBLwbLya7Q?si=v-8ORTbUlS7FZj6M

One of NATO’S weakpoints: The Suwalki Gap

It’s a problem. But, Kaliningrad’s garrisons and their equipment and stores have, reportedly, been severely depleted to feed the conflict i eastern UIkraine.

So, right now at least, Kaliningrad may not be the sturdy pillar of a narrow gateway that it might have been until recently.

The first sign of trouble from the Russians against NATO, NATO will take Kaliningrad. I’m sure there are already several plans drawn up for it in NATO HQ.

Too bloody right!

Reply Quote

Date: 9/09/2023 19:27:17
From: Kingy
ID: 2073419
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

“Coming soon! The US fleet in the Black Sea!”

“The USA is going to adopt the Black Sea Security Act of 2023, which can have a positive effect on strengthening Ukraine’s national security and ensure NATO’s presence in the Black Sea.”

Reply Quote

Date: 9/09/2023 19:32:54
From: party_pants
ID: 2073421
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:

“Coming soon! The US fleet in the Black Sea!”

“The USA is going to adopt the Black Sea Security Act of 2023, which can have a positive effect on strengthening Ukraine’s national security and ensure NATO’s presence in the Black Sea.”


Isn’t there some convention on the transit of the Turkish straits by foreign military vessels into the Black Sea…? Bt foreign I mean belonging to countries which don’t have any Black Sea coastline. It would need Turkey’s permission, and would need them to break the convention.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/09/2023 19:34:57
From: roughbarked
ID: 2073424
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


Kingy said:
“Coming soon! The US fleet in the Black Sea!”

“The USA is going to adopt the Black Sea Security Act of 2023, which can have a positive effect on strengthening Ukraine’s national security and ensure NATO’s presence in the Black Sea.”


Isn’t there some convention on the transit of the Turkish straits by foreign military vessels into the Black Sea…? Bt foreign I mean belonging to countries which don’t have any Black Sea coastline. It would need Turkey’s permission, and would need them to break the convention.

Yes. I am sure this is the case.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/09/2023 19:36:59
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2073426
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


Kingy said:
“Coming soon! The US fleet in the Black Sea!”

“The USA is going to adopt the Black Sea Security Act of 2023, which can have a positive effect on strengthening Ukraine’s national security and ensure NATO’s presence in the Black Sea.”


Isn’t there some convention on the transit of the Turkish straits by foreign military vessels into the Black Sea…? Bt foreign I mean belonging to countries which don’t have any Black Sea coastline. It would need Turkey’s permission, and would need them to break the convention.

IIRC all transit needs Turkey and only Turkey’s permission.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/09/2023 20:36:05
From: Kingy
ID: 2073938
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

$500 Ukrainian FPV drone killed a T-90 tank that was fully crewed, in combat.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1700895963080966186

By comparison, the price of a FGM-148 Javelin missile ranges from $200,000 to $250,000, depending on purchase quantities.

And FPV drones are indirect fire weapons that outrange a Javelin.

The world has changed.

And there are a lot of Western military officers & military procurement officials who are in very deep dark denial of this strange new reality we now live in.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/09/2023 20:45:24
From: party_pants
ID: 2073942
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


$500 Ukrainian FPV drone killed a T-90 tank that was fully crewed, in combat.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1700895963080966186

By comparison, the price of a FGM-148 Javelin missile ranges from $200,000 to $250,000, depending on purchase quantities.

And FPV drones are indirect fire weapons that outrange a Javelin.

The world has changed.

And there are a lot of Western military officers & military procurement officials who are in very deep dark denial of this strange new reality we now live in.

I say good on the Ukrainians.

Don’t know about the last bit though. I reckons there would be plenty arguing strongly for greater adoption of drone technology. Especially in what can be mass-produced cheaply in their own country.

Reply Quote

Date: 13/09/2023 21:12:52
From: Kingy
ID: 2074482
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Ukraine hits Sevastopol shipyard again, another two russian warships hit, that’s 4 in two days.

Interesting that since putins full scale invasion of Ukraine including with the worlds second largest navy, Ukraine are winning the naval war in the Black Sea and they don’t even have a warship.

Reply Quote

Date: 13/09/2023 21:16:34
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 2074484
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


Ukraine hits Sevastopol shipyard again, another two russian warships hit, that’s 4 in two days.

Interesting that since putins full scale invasion of Ukraine including with the worlds second largest navy, Ukraine are winning the naval war in the Black Sea and they don’t even have a warship.


yeah but Ukraine has lost over 10 million armed forces personnel and an almost infinite number of leopard and challenger tanks.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2023 13:22:01
From: dv
ID: 2075695
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Your regular reminded that every death and injury in this war is the fault of Putin and Russia. All of this would have been avoided if they’d just decided to do something other than invade a neighbouring country again.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2023 14:48:16
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2075746
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Russia accidentally shell its own troops for two hours mistaking them for Ukranian soldiers

https://youtu.be/q8C0AqIMV2Q

Reply Quote

Date: 17/09/2023 15:02:10
From: dv
ID: 2075750
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

The arrival of US soldiers for a peacekeeper training exercise in Armenia has rankled the Russian government, which has for decades acted as the sole security guarantor for the former Soviet republic. The 10-day “Eagle Partner” exercise, which began Monday, involves 85 US and 175 Armenian soldiers and aims to prepare the Armenians to take part in international peacekeeping missions.

The exercise, while small in scale, is the latest in a series of what Russia’s foreign ministry has deemed “unfriendly actions” taken by its traditional ally.

Armenia recently sent humanitarian aid to Ukraine for the first time, and its parliament is set to ratify the International Criminal Court’s Rome Statute – meaning it would be obliged to arrest Russian President Vladimir Putin if he were to set foot in the country, which Russia has long viewed as its own backyard.

Armenia’s flirtation with new international partners has been spurred by its frustration that Russia has been unable or unwilling to defend it against what it sees as aggression from neighboring Azerbaijan, and has raised questions about Russia’s ability to retain its hold on countries and conflicts across the former Soviet empire.

Armenian President Nikol Pashinyan said his country was beginning to taste the “bitter fruits” of the “strategic mistake” of trusting Russia with near-exclusive responsibility for his country’s defense.

“Armenia’s security architecture 99.999% was linked to Russia,” he told Italian newspaper La Repubblica earlier this month. “But today we see that Russia itself is in need of weapons… Even if it wishes so, the Russian Federation cannot meet Armenia’s needs.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/17/world/armenia-russia-kremlin-us-intl/index.html

Reply Quote

Date: 23/09/2023 13:42:48
From: Kingy
ID: 2077754
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

From TwitX:

I have unofficial confirmation from 🇺🇦 sources: Black Sea Fleet commander Admiral Viktor #Sokolov was killed in today’s strike in #Sevastopol.
Sokolov personally ordered missile strikes on civilian targets in #Ukraine & would’ve been indicted as a war criminal had he survived.

Reply Quote

Date: 23/09/2023 13:54:32
From: Bubblecar
ID: 2077757
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


From TwitX:

I have unofficial confirmation from 🇺🇦 sources: Black Sea Fleet commander Admiral Viktor #Sokolov was killed in today’s strike in #Sevastopol.
Sokolov personally ordered missile strikes on civilian targets in #Ukraine & would’ve been indicted as a war criminal had he survived.


Goodo.

Reply Quote

Date: 23/09/2023 14:18:36
From: Kingy
ID: 2077766
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

This is a change:

Unmanned combat vehicle story Link

The Ukrainian Army is testing the Ironclad unmanned combat robot in live operations. The versatile robotic platform assists forces by storming positions, recon, and fire support at 20km/h speed.

Reply Quote

Date: 23/09/2023 14:27:29
From: Michael V
ID: 2077768
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


This is a change:

Unmanned combat vehicle story Link

The Ukrainian Army is testing the Ironclad unmanned combat robot in live operations. The versatile robotic platform assists forces by storming positions, recon, and fire support at 20km/h speed.


Good one.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/09/2023 09:42:55
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2077974
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Russia has taken thousands of Ukrainian kids. Some don’t want to go home
Families search in vain through a maze of foster homes and holiday camps

Sep 11th 2023

By Wendell Steavenson

Kostya Ten (pictured above) was 13 years old when Russian troops entered his village of Kosatske on the banks of the Dnieper in the Kherson region of southern Ukraine. He was a tearaway kid from a complicated family. His mother died when he was tiny; his father, who was ethnically Korean, used to grow watermelons but was bedridden following a stroke. He had five older sisters and was treated as the baby of the family. At the age of 11, Kostya began running around with a gang of older boys who stole scrap metal. At first, he served as a lookout. Then they told him to nick some metal from his own home, promising to split the proceeds with him. Instead, they kept the money for themselves.

For two weeks after the full-scale invasion, Kostya and his family slept in the basement of their house. Then the Russian soldiers arrived and set up checkpoints. All the shops were looted and helicopters whirred overhead – they were “so cool”, said Kostya. He got talking to the occupying soldiers, many of whom were Ukrainians from Donetsk and Luhansk, eastern regions of Ukraine where Russia backed a secessionist takeover in 2014.

“Are you afraid?” a few of the friendlier soldiers asked Kostya. They were not much more than teenagers themselves. Kostya was hesitant. “Don’t be afraid,” they said and told him they had been forced into the army. They bought biscuits for the local kids and sometimes they let them hold their guns. “One showed me how to load it,” said Kostya. “The gun was really heavy, I almost fell over.”

One night, Russian soldiers banged on the door of Kostya’s house. His sisters refused to answer it. They noticed that their brother was mysteriously absent, not for the first time. Had he been talking to the soldiers, like some of the neighbours said? Had he led them to their house? The next day, Kostya found everyone gone.

His eldest sister Masha, who lived in the house with her young son, was scared – her boyfriend was in the Ukrainian army. She led the family to a nearby town, also in Russian-occupied territory.

Maybe, Masha had thought, it would be better if her brother stayed in Kosatske. She arranged for a neighbour, whom they called Auntie Valya, to look after him. Valya was a practical woman who did not suffer fools. She often helped the family, tending their kitchen garden and offering advice on how to raise five daughters and a wayward son. “A very interesting boy,” said Valya of Kostya, “but…he always wanted to make money on one thing or another.” In wartime, she said, his entrepreneurial spirit led him astray. “He would tell on the neighbours for money – say that they had grenades or something and they would be searched and beaten.”

The local school was closed because most of the teachers had left the village. Kostya hung out with his friends, went fishing and grumbled about having to chop wood for Valya. He was, like many boys in war zones, fascinated by weapons. When a rocket fell into a neighbour’s garden, he and his friends watched the Russian sappers dismantle it. One night partisans burnt a Russian armoured personnel carrier. “Afterwards we crawled inside and I was surprised how small and cramped it was,” he said.

At the beginning of summer, the Russian occupiers offered local teenagers places at holiday camps in Crimea and southern Russia. Kostya’s father had never let him go to summer camp. Valya had doubts about sending him but thought that some structure might do him good. Kostya went to a camp in Krasnodar in the south of Russia for two weeks in June 2022. He loved it: there was painting, volleyball, roller-skating, competitions with prizes. Kostya had his face painted and got transfer tattoos. His only regret was that “there weren’t any motorcycles.”

Children from all over occupied Ukraine attended the camp. One group of kids had t-shirts with pictures of Lenin and Stalin; another group wore black hats like gangsters. Some kids raised a Ukrainian flag at the disco one evening, and the camp guards ordered them to get rid of it.

Kostya’s best friend at the camp was Nikita, a boy from Kherson. He gave Kostya a flag. On it was the Russian slogan, “We don’t abandon our own”, and the pro-war “Z” insignia. Kostya said he threw it away. Generally, though, he tended to keep his head down.

Over the course of the summer, Kostya’s family crossed the front line to reach unoccupied Ukrainian territory. After Kostya returned from the camp to Valya’s house, communication with his father and sisters grew increasingly intermittent. Kostya didn’t have his own mobile phone and, when the telephone network was destroyed in the autumn fighting, he lost all contact with them.

In August 2022 Ukraine started a counter-offensive to retake the city of Kherson and the western bank of the Dnieper. Russian soldiers were billeted at Kostya’s family home and the bombardments grew more intense. By October the Russian authorities were encouraging people to leave. Buses were arranged to take children to camps in Krasnodar. Kostya was keen to go back; Valya, worried for his safety, relented. He packed a small bag of clothes, his army knife, four prized pieces from his shrapnel collection, a bullet casing that a Russian soldier had given him and a pile of documents he found in the safe at his house. They included his birth certificate and vaccination records, his mother’s death certificate and a copy of his father’s passport.

Around one in five Ukrainian children is living under Russian control, either in occupied areas or Russia itself. No one knows how many have been taken to Russia since the war began. In February researchers at Yale University counted over 6,000 Ukrainian children in 43 institutions across Russia (they suspect the real number is much higher).

The Ukrainians say the children have been kidnapped. Russia maintains that it is sheltering children from the war, just as it has taken in hundreds of thousands of adult Ukrainian refugees. But Russia has refused to provide information about the Ukrainian children it harbours or work with a neutral intermediary, such at the International Committee of the Red Cross, to register and repatriate them. Mykola Kuleba of Save Ukraine, a Ukrainian ngo that helps families bring their children home, said that Russia plans to “absorb Ukrainian children and to re-educate them, indoctrinate them, brainwash them”.

The children have been taken under different circumstances. Some were left parentless by the fighting or separated from family members who were detained as they fled east into Russian-held territory. Others were transferred from children’s homes in occupied areas: some of these are orphans; some have parents or relatives unable to care for them. One orphanage director in Kherson hid children with local families to stop the Russians from taking them away. In the Kharkiv region, schoolchildren were forced onto evacuation buses as the front line moved closer. There are also 2,000 or so children whose hometowns were retaken by Ukraine last year while they were away at holiday camps in Russia and Crimea, and who have been unable to cross the front line.

Whatever the Kremlin says, it is clear that the Russian government is orchestrating a policy of child deportation. Regional authorities are given funding to take in Ukrainian children. Russian tv broadcasts footage of Ukrainian teenagers in holiday camps undergoing “rehabilitation” and “military and patriotic training” – singing the Russian national anthem, clambering over obstacle courses and learning how to shoot on firing ranges. On March 17th the International Criminal Court in The Hague issued arrest warrants for Putin and Maria Lvova-Belova, his commissioner for children’s rights, alleging that they were responsible for the unlawful deportation of Ukrainian children.

In May 2022 Russia simplified the process for Ukrainian children to get Russian citizenship. Once they have a Russian passport, Ukrainian children can be adopted by Russian families and their names changed. Then it becomes nearly impossible for Ukrainian relatives or authorities to trace their children or legally return them to Ukraine. Lvova-Belova has herself adopted an orphaned teenager from Mariupol. “He admits he was yearning for the house in which he grew up, his friends and his hometown,” she wrote on Telegram last August. “He was not familiar with the traditions of Orthodox Christianity. He has not seen Russian films and books. And with younger children, he doesn’t have a common language. We are finding ways to compromise and learn to trust each other.”

Kostya took a bus back to camp in Krasnodar. It was piled with luggage and full of families – probably those who had worked in some way with the Russians. No one used the word “evacuation”. Excited though he was about returning to camp, Kostya also worried about events back home. “I was always trying to find out what was happening in Kosatske,” he said. “I remembered my father and my family, and I fell asleep thinking of them.” Nikita, Kostya’s friend, travelled with him. They sat together on the train to Anapa, a resort town on the Russian coast of the Black Sea, scrolling through Telegram channels on Nikita’s phone, looking for news of the war, until a ticket inspector caught them. “That’s Ukrainian news! What are you doing looking at that?” he exclaimed. They switched the phone off.

The children were taken to a different holiday camp from the one they had stayed in before. This one wasn’t as much fun, but Kostya recognised a number of the kids. After a few weeks, some of the children were moved from the camp to dormitories in a sports complex. On November 12th 2022 the Russians pulled out of the city of Kherson. Kostya learned from the Russian news that the villages on the west bank of the Dnieper, including Kosatske, had been retaken by Ukrainian forces, but didn’t know whether to believe it or not.

Nikita’s mother arrived in Krasnodar. She was put up in a flat and given the standard Russian handout for Ukrainian refugees of 10,000 roubles (about $100). Kostya watched as mothers came to get their children; some, like Nikita’s, opted to settle in Russia, where they were given free accommodation and a monthly stipend.

After a few weeks, Kostya was moved to a hotel in Anapa called the Marina. By that stage, he was one of only a handful of children who hadn’t been reunited with their parents. The counsellors told him that if his family didn’t fetch him he would probably be sent to a children’s home. He began to worry, since he had no way to contact his sisters and father and didn’t even know where they were.

In Anapa Kostya was placed in one school, then another, never settling. He said he asked one of his teachers why Russia had attacked Ukraine. “The teacher said, ‘I can’t answer that question, I’m not Putin’s secretary.’” He often felt under threat and isolated: his precious army knife was stolen from his hotel room and friends told him he would end up being adopted by drug addicts. Eventually, one of the cleaning ladies gave him her grandson’s old phone. Just before new year he found his sister Katya through social media and sent her a message. “You have to come and get me,” he wrote. “They are going to place me with a foster family.”

Ukrainian parents trying to get their children back find the process stressful and confusing. Russian authorities don’t provide any lists of children and there is no standard procedure to follow. Teenagers are able to use social media to get in contact with relatives and friends in Ukraine. Younger children, who are sent to live with foster families, are more difficult to trace. Russian bureaucrats can be corrupt and obtuse, and the ease with which families are reunited varies wildly depending on who is handling the case. Sometimes parents are required to collect their child in person and the prospect of entering enemy territory is frightening. If children used to live with their grandparents or other relatives, documents proving legal guardianship must be provided and translated into Russian. Sometimes Russian social services claim it is not in the best interests of the child to return to Ukraine.

Kuleba of Save Ukraine said it cost between $3,000 and $5,000 to rescue each child. Inevitably, cash lubricates matters. “It’s thanks to Russian corruption that we can find the children, because we can buy information and we can buy people who can do things for us,” said Kuleba, almost laughing. He reckons that many Russian bureaucrats “think, ‘Maybe what’s happening is wrong, but it’s not my responsibility, I am just a staff member, I am just doing what I was told.’”

Ukrainian martial law dictates that most men can’t leave the country, so the quest to track down lost children is largely undertaken by women. The trip from Ukraine through Poland, Belarus and into Russia is expensive, long and potentially dangerous. In some instances mothers don’t have passports or struggle to arrange care for their other children. For those serving in government posts or the army, the risk of travelling to Russia may be too great. Those who do make it can be subject to invasive interviews with fsb agents before they can see their children. They are sometimes obliged to thank Russian authorities in front of tv cameras.

Many teenagers have returned with stories of harassment and intimidation. Some were told that their parents had signed away their parental rights and the Ukrainian authorities would punish them if they returned. Others said they were housed in prison-like barracks, slept on mattresses on the floor, and were assaulted and humiliated by their guardians. Kuleba told me that the Russians specifically targeted kids like Kostya from dysfunctional families. He acknowledged that troubled teens might not be totally forthcoming about their experiences in Russia. Some, he said, might cover up sexual assault; others might feel ashamed of having been complicit with the enemy.

After Kostya got in touch, his sisters began to communicate with the Russian authorities in Krasnodar about his return, though they found themselves overwhelmed with requests for documents. They wrestled with who should make the journey. Their father was too ill. Masha was now eight months pregnant. Tanya was working in Poland. Katya, just 18 years old, said she was too scared. Her twin Lisa volunteered to go.

Lisa left with a group of mothers on March 12th. She was nervous answering questions on the Belarus border. “They said I was lying and would have to take a lie detector. I was so scared and freaked out. I told them I felt sick and eventually they let me through.” On their journey, which took almost a week, the group stayed with sympathetic activists in Belarus and Russia. These networks are often organised through churches at serious risk to the participants.

Meanwhile, in Krasnodar, Kostya had been sent to a foster family. Yura and Lilia, his foster parents, had a nice house on the outskirts of town and two teenage children of their own. “They also had a really cool grey cat,” Kostya remembers. They had already taken in four Ukrainian teeangers and adopted two of them – orphaned brothers. “Even if they came back to Ukraine,” Kostya observed, “they would have nowhere to go.” Kostya found Yura “very positive easy going”. He told Kostya the family would be happy to adopt him too. Kostya was tempted to stay. “I was afraid to go back. Everyone said that everything was ruined in Ukraine, that a loaf of bread cost 500 hryvnia ($13.50), and there were bombs.”

Kostya’s foster parents worried people would call him a traitor, that he might be safer in Krasnodar. Maybe Kostya could bring his family here and his father could get treatment in hospital? They even offered to host them all. The local mayor, a friend of his foster parents, told him he would give the family a four-bedroom house. “I didn’t know if it was true or not,” said Kostya. Still, he found it hard to resist the offer. “I knew that my family couldn’t afford an apartment in Ukraine. Plus I had bad marks in school which meant I wouldn’t be able to have money for an apartment when I was grown-up either.”

When Lisa finally arrived, they hugged. “He had grown up,” Lisa remembered. “His face looked older and his voice had broken.” She also noticed that, after six months of Russian propaganda, “his opinions had all changed.” “It was effective,” she told me. The first thing he said was that he didn’t want to come home. “He liked where he was. It was near the sea.”

They had the weekend to make a final decision. Lisa went to the child-services bureau in Anapa with her documents, where officials tried to persuade her to bring the rest of the family to Russia. “I played the game,” Lisa told me. “I said, ‘It’s true that it’s dangerous . Well, let me go home and talk to my family about it.’”

Kostya turned the matter over in his mind. “It was such a hard decision,” he said. “I felt my nerves. The pressure felt physical.” He told me he understood that neither side was “snowy-white perfect”. He had seen the Russians using Ukrainian civilians for cover and neighbours change their allegiances depending on who was in charge. “I couldn’t decide,” he said. “I would look at my foster mother and think that I didn’t want to go. And then I would look at my sister and I wanted to go.” He and Lisa spent a lot of time walking around the park (“Lisa took a lot of selfies,” he said).

In the end it was Yura, his foster father, who convinced him that he needed to go back for the sake of Kostya’s own dad. “He told me I could always come back if I wanted.” So he and Lisa began the journey back to Ukraine. The border between Belarus, an ally of Russia, and Ukraine is formally closed, but there is one place where returning Ukrainians are able to cross on foot. “When I saw the Ukrainian flag,” said Kostya, “It was like the oxygen in the air was different. It was a feeling of freedom. Russia is beautiful and nice but your homeland is better.”

Kostya is now living with Masha and her two children in a town near the Russian border. I met him there in May and we talked over coffee and cake in a café. When the air-raid sirens sounded, the café closed and we went down to the basement shelter. Kostya tended to speak in torrents of detail, with the enthusiasm of a kid recounting a grand adventure; sometimes he was more circumspect and parried my questions with shrugs and ellipses. He was intelligent and charming: qualities that helped him survive his ordeal. He had a talent for making friends easily and the ability to tailor what he said to his audience.

Kostya has started karate lessons and set up a TikTok account where he posts patriotic Ukrainian videos. He remains in touch with his foster parents in Krasnodar. He also messages Nikita and his other friends from the children’s camps, most of whom are still living in Russia, but they avoid talking about the war. Once he posted a picture of himself in front of a destroyed building and one of his friends said it had probably been shelled by the Ukrainians. “She’s been brainwashed,” said Kostya.

I asked Mykola Kuleba what would happen to the many thousands of Ukrainian children taken to Russia, who had no parents or guardians, or who were too young even to know who they were. He took a long pause. “We don’t know,” he said, “And maybe we will never know.”

https://www.economist.com/1843/2023/09/11/russia-has-taken-thousands-of-ukrainian-kids-some-dont-want-to-go-home?

Reply Quote

Date: 24/09/2023 09:48:46
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 2077976
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

This is likely to have been mentioned previously, but I wonder if NATO and perhaps some other countries are trying to make the war last longer. The intent being to make Russia deplete its military assets until they are no longer a threat.
For sure they’d still have their ICBM & nuclear subs, but they would be seriously weakened for any future land wars for decades possibly.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/09/2023 10:02:24
From: party_pants
ID: 2077979
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Spiny Norman said:


This is likely to have been mentioned previously, but I wonder if NATO and perhaps some other countries are trying to make the war last longer. The intent being to make Russia deplete its military assets until they are no longer a threat.
For sure they’d still have their ICBM & nuclear subs, but they would be seriously weakened for any future land wars for decades possibly.

I don’t think it is in NATO’s interests to prolong the war. I think it is more in their interests for Ukraine to drive out Russia as quickly as possible, and inflict the maximum humiliation. Now that not happened of course, or won’t happen before the next winter, so the war will go on for another year. There is a danger of NATO falling short of ammo and equipment to supply to Ukraine, and for people within NATO to tire of an endless war and call for a peace settlement with concessions to Russia. If this happens Russia will be emboldened and will just start the next cycle of rebuilding before launching the next war for the next slice of territory.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/09/2023 10:04:04
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 2077980
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


Spiny Norman said:

This is likely to have been mentioned previously, but I wonder if NATO and perhaps some other countries are trying to make the war last longer. The intent being to make Russia deplete its military assets until they are no longer a threat.
For sure they’d still have their ICBM & nuclear subs, but they would be seriously weakened for any future land wars for decades possibly.

I don’t think it is in NATO’s interests to prolong the war. I think it is more in their interests for Ukraine to drive out Russia as quickly as possible, and inflict the maximum humiliation. Now that not happened of course, or won’t happen before the next winter, so the war will go on for another year. There is a danger of NATO falling short of ammo and equipment to supply to Ukraine, and for people within NATO to tire of an endless war and call for a peace settlement with concessions to Russia. If this happens Russia will be emboldened and will just start the next cycle of rebuilding before launching the next war for the next slice of territory.

I wouldn’t disagree with any of that.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/09/2023 10:36:09
From: roughbarked
ID: 2077986
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


Spiny Norman said:

This is likely to have been mentioned previously, but I wonder if NATO and perhaps some other countries are trying to make the war last longer. The intent being to make Russia deplete its military assets until they are no longer a threat.
For sure they’d still have their ICBM & nuclear subs, but they would be seriously weakened for any future land wars for decades possibly.

I don’t think it is in NATO’s interests to prolong the war. I think it is more in their interests for Ukraine to drive out Russia as quickly as possible, and inflict the maximum humiliation. Now that not happened of course, or won’t happen before the next winter, so the war will go on for another year. There is a danger of NATO falling short of ammo and equipment to supply to Ukraine, and for people within NATO to tire of an endless war and call for a peace settlement with concessions to Russia. If this happens Russia will be emboldened and will just start the next cycle of rebuilding before launching the next war for the next slice of territory.

This is the more likely.

I’m afraid someone is going to have to assassinate the ShitCan

Reply Quote

Date: 24/09/2023 10:58:32
From: dv
ID: 2077991
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Spiny Norman said:


This is likely to have been mentioned previously, but I wonder if NATO and perhaps some other countries are trying to make the war last longer. The intent being to make Russia deplete its military assets until they are no longer a threat.
For sure they’d still have their ICBM & nuclear subs, but they would be seriously weakened for any future land wars for decades possibly.

Okay so what are they doing to make the war last longer?

Reply Quote

Date: 25/09/2023 12:54:53
From: dv
ID: 2078296
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

YEREVAN — Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashinian has criticized the Russian-led Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) for its refusal to support Armenia when it faced “Azerbaijan’s aggression.”

Speaking at a CSTO summit in Yerevan on November 23, Pashinian said it was “depressing that Armenia’s membership in the CSTO has failed to contain Azerbaijani aggression.” He said this had been “hugely damaging to the CSTO’s image both in our country and abroad.”

Armenia asked for military help in September after deadly clashes broke out between the two Caucasus neighbors, but the CSTO responded only by sending its secretary-general to the conflict zone and offering to set up a working group to analyse the situation.

Six countries — Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and Russia — comprise the CSTO, which was established in October 2002.

Pashinian said his country had supported CSTO member Kazakhstan immediately in early January when Kazakh President Qasym-Zhomart Toqaev asked CSTO troops to enter his country following unprecedented antigovernment protests.

“Armenia is ending its chairmanship of the CSTO. Although it is an anniversary year , for Armenia it was not an anniversary year at all. In the last two years, a CSTO member-state has been attacked by Azerbaijan at least three times, and actually, till now, we have not received any reaction from the CSTO regarding Azerbaijan’s aggression, which is a big blow to the CSTO’s image,” Pashinian said.

Armenia says dozens of square kilometers of its sovereign territory were seized by Azerbaijan during the military conflict between the two countries in May 2021, in November 2021, and in September this year.

Pashinian met later on November 23 with Russian President Vladimir Putin on the sidelines of the Yerevan summit to discuss bilateral relations and regional issues.

At the start of the meeting Pashinian reportedly noted that the CSTO did not manage to reach a consensus on all issues on the agenda of the summit.

Pahinian said during the summit that he was not ready to sign draft documents regarding “joint measures on providing assistance to Armenia” that he said did not address Yerevan’s concerns regarding the CSTO’s political position on the Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict.

“Under these conditions, the lack of a clear political assessment of the situation and the failure to make the above decision may not only mean the CSTO’s refusal from allied obligations but may also be interpreted by Azerbaijan as a green light from the CSTO for further aggression against Armenia,” Pashinian said at the summit.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said the CSTO was a “necessary” organization whose services were “very much in demand” to resolve regional conflicts.

“It is very important that Armenia and Azerbaijan agree on a peace treaty,” said Peskov, who accompanied Putin to Yerevan. “This is our main task. And we all have to do our utmost to…make it happen,” he told reporters after the summit.

During his meeting with Putin, Pashinian raised the issue of honoring agreements that Armenia and Azerbaijan have reached through the Russian president’s mediation.

“These are very important issues, which, of course, we need to discuss, just as we need to discuss the agenda, which, we hope, will lead to a lasting peace in our region,” Pashinian said.

Putin, as quoted by the Kremlin, highlighted the allied nature of Russian-Armenian relations that he said have “deep roots.”

In his remarks at the summit the Russian leader said that a meeting between the leaders of Russia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan in Sochi, Russia, on October 31 and their joint statement afterward created “a good basis for future compromises” between Yerevan and Baku.

Putin said that only through consistent implementation of agreements on border delimitation, unblocking of transport links, and solutions to humanitarian problems will it be possible to achieve normalization of relations between Armenia and Azerbaijan.

“We hope that this will eventually pave the way for a peace treaty between Yerevan and Baku,” Putin said.

https://www.rferl.org/a/armenia-csto-pashinian-criticism/32145663.html

Reply Quote

Date: 26/09/2023 20:10:33
From: dv
ID: 2078738
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

31 Abrams have been delivered from the USA to Ukraine this week

Reply Quote

Date: 2/10/2023 19:29:52
From: Kingy
ID: 2080597
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

“So when a Ukrainian tanker with the callsign “Kochevnik” ran into problems with his captured Russian T-72B3—problems local expertise couldn’t immediately solve—he called Uralvagonzavod(Russian) tech support. And incredibly, the help line actually helped.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/10/01/a-ukrainian-officers-captured-russian-tank-wasnt-working-so-he-called-tech-support-in-russia/?sh=574f1a5e13a8

Link

Reply Quote

Date: 2/10/2023 20:07:05
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2080603
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:


31 Abrams have been delivered from the USA to Ukraine this week

Just in time for the rainy season and the mud – but I’m sure it will be fine, the russians wouldn’t have built tanks compatible for fighting in their neck of the woods and the Abram’s work anywhere

Reply Quote

Date: 17/10/2023 14:25:37
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2085071
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

ABC News:

‘Mr Putin, in an interview with the China Media Group released on Monday, claimed Ukraine’s counteroffensive had achieved “no results so far, only massive losses”.’

That’s all there is about that.

I wonder whose losses he was referring to?

Reply Quote

Date: 17/10/2023 14:44:23
From: Michael V
ID: 2085072
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


ABC News:

‘Mr Putin, in an interview with the China Media Group released on Monday, claimed Ukraine’s counteroffensive had achieved “no results so far, only massive losses”.’

That’s all there is about that.

I wonder whose losses he was referring to?

Wookie will tell us Ukraine is losing 300,000 forces per week. He gets his information from Putin, via RT, I think.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/10/2023 15:11:11
From: roughbarked
ID: 2085084
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Michael V said:


captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

‘Mr Putin, in an interview with the China Media Group released on Monday, claimed Ukraine’s counteroffensive had achieved “no results so far, only massive losses”.’

That’s all there is about that.

I wonder whose losses he was referring to?

Wookie will tell us Ukraine is losing 300,000 forces per week. He gets his information from Putin, via RT, I think.

Well he probably hasn’t read this https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-17/ukraine-invasion-russia-600-days-renewed-fighting-key-areas/102985696

Reply Quote

Date: 21/10/2023 11:16:06
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2086386
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:

Michael V said:

captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

‘Mr Putin, in an interview with the China Media Group released on Monday, claimed Ukraine’s counteroffensive had achieved “no results so far, only massive losses”.’

That’s all there is about that.

I wonder whose losses he was referring to?

Wookie will tell us Ukraine is losing 300,000 forces per week. He gets his information from Putin, via RT, I think.

Well he probably hasn’t read this https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-17/ukraine-invasion-russia-600-days-renewed-fighting-key-areas/102985696

probably just an iron dome shutdown of a hamas rocket

Reply Quote

Date: 21/10/2023 11:38:24
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2086398
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

SCIENCE said:

roughbarked said:

Michael V said:

Wookie will tell us Ukraine is losing 300,000 forces per week. He gets his information from Putin, via RT, I think.

Well he probably hasn’t read this https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-17/ukraine-invasion-russia-600-days-renewed-fighting-key-areas/102985696

probably just an iron dome shutdown of a hamas rocket

That’s why the British army adopted steel helmets.

In the early battles of WW1, British soldiers wore cloth covered peaked caps. But, there was a lot of casualties from artillery. Not from explosions or shrapnel (although plenty of those, too) but from large chunks of earth and rocks thrown up by the explosions descending on the soldiery. Lots of head and shoulder injuries.

Doctors pushed for steel helmets to be issued, but top brass resisted for quite a while, claiming that it ‘would damage the morale of the men’. After helmets were eventually issued, earth/rock injuries declined significantly.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/10/2023 11:49:36
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2086410
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:

Doctors pushed for steel helmets to be issued, but top brass resisted for quite a while, claiming that it ‘would damage the morale of the men’. After helmets were eventually issued, earth/rock injuries declined significantly.

It’s like an allegory of anthropology from stone age to bronze age to iron age¡

Reply Quote

Date: 29/10/2023 15:32:55
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2089182
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

The Important Thing To Know About Bricks

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-29/western-security-doubts-grow-amid-india-russia-oil-trade/103033716

Is That Their Many Faces Are

As such, he said efforts to draw Delhi closer to the West on defence and security matters – especially through the grouping of India, the US, Japan and Australia known as the Quad – were likely to have hard limits.

Rectangular

Reply Quote

Date: 29/10/2023 15:34:37
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2089183
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

SCIENCE said:

The Important Thing To Know About Bricks

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-29/western-security-doubts-grow-amid-india-russia-oil-trade/103033716

Is That Their Many Faces Are

As such, he said efforts to draw Delhi closer to the West on defence and security matters – especially through the grouping of India, the US, Japan and Australia known as the Quad – were likely to have hard limits.

Rectangular


Maybe we could persuade the russians and Indians by telling them about our “song lines “?

Reply Quote

Date: 29/10/2023 15:35:25
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2089185
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

SCIENCE said:

The Important Thing To Know About Bricks

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-29/western-security-doubts-grow-amid-india-russia-oil-trade/103033716

Is That Their Many Faces Are

As such, he said efforts to draw Delhi closer to the West on defence and security matters – especially through the grouping of India, the US, Japan and Australia known as the Quad – were likely to have hard limits.

Rectangular

Fuck, how dare these shithole cuntries of colonised peoples

Professor Hall said seeing the world in such binary terms failed to grasp India’s own worldview. He said India, almost more than any other country on Earth, was “obsessed with this idea of strategic autonomy” and acting in its own interests.

act in their own interests¡

Reply Quote

Date: 31/10/2023 21:27:19
From: dv
ID: 2090032
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

McConnell, Speaker Johnson headed for shutdown clash over Ukraine

Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell (Ky.) and newly elected Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.) are headed for a showdown over emergency funding for Ukraine and funding the government beyond Thanksgiving, two tough issues that will test their ability to work together.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4280362-mcconnell-speaker-johnson-headed-for-shutdown-clash-over-ukraine/

Reply Quote

Date: 6/11/2023 07:33:18
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2091517
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

SCIENCE said:

Cheap drones eh,

But one of the more shocking elements to its carefully-honed strike was the militant group’s fleet of drones. Many of them were commercial off-the-shelf drones, crudely rigged-up to carry explosives.

fuck CHINA¡

Fuck CHINA, the western NATO ally supplying weapons to Ukraine¡

Twitter, a black bomb with an orange tail is tossed on a cluster of IDF soldiers in the Gazan neighbourhood of Beit Hanoun. The ABC has reviewed the videos, but due to their graphic nature, has decided not to share them. The footage cannot be independently verified, but it suggests that Hamas is borrowing from Russia’s playbook in Ukraine.

bq Since Russia launched its full-scale invasion in 2022, it has made up for shortfalls in its military arsenal by purchasing relatively inexpensive commercial drones and repurposing them as DIY bombs. Ukraine quickly copied the strategy, turning Chinese-made DJI quadcopters, which are designed for photographers and hobbyists, into weapons of war.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/11/2023 11:37:28
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2092604
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Good News¡ Assassinating Politicians Is Acceptable As Long As They’re Under Allen Influence ¡

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-09/ukraine-car-bomb-assassination-filiponenko/103082302

Reply Quote

Date: 9/11/2023 11:57:10
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 2092615
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

SCIENCE said:

Good News¡ Assassinating Politicians Is Acceptable As Long As They’re Under Allen Influence ¡

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-09/ukraine-car-bomb-assassination-filiponenko/103082302

Murdered, in cold blood.

Reply Quote

Date: 15/11/2023 09:38:49
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2094433
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

So

Some 300,000 rounds have been delivered from existing stocks in the EU so far. With the rest becoming increasingly elusive to source, Latvian Defence Minister Andris Spruds insisted the original target should not be taken too literally.

“Well, of course, 1 million rounds are symbolic. I think aspiration and ambition is important,” he said.

guess we know how those submarines and occupied regions are going then.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-15/eu-is-struggling-to-produce-and-send-ammunition-ukraine/103106670

Remember what happened to Treaty when Symbolic Voice became increasingly elusive ¿

Reply Quote

Date: 18/11/2023 09:25:52
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2095395
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Turns Out That Tunnels Are Dual Use Items Especially When There Is An Invading Colonial Slash Communist Power Conducting Ground Incursion Special Military Operations ¡

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-18/kharkiv-builds-underground-schools-as-russia-keeps-up-attacks/103121314

Kharkiv region have begun building heavily fortified underground schools

“schools”

oh wait

Reply Quote

Date: 18/11/2023 12:44:07
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2095449
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

SCIENCE said:

Turns Out That Tunnels Are Dual Use Items Especially When There Is An Invading Colonial Slash Communist Power Conducting Ground Incursion Special Military Operations ¡

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-18/kharkiv-builds-underground-schools-as-russia-keeps-up-attacks/103121314

Kharkiv region have begun building heavily fortified underground schools

“schools”

oh wait



When meeting today with law enforcement officials President Poroshenko said that there was only peaceful political settlement of this problem. And today a fragment of his earlier speech in Odesa appeared in Internet. In this speech Poroshenko called Odesa a Banderist city, making the best compliment in his opinion. But there was something more. Here is the settlement of the problem by Kyiv authority back at that time: severe economic pressure of Ukrainian citizens. “We will have jobs, they will not. We will have pensions, they will not. We will have support of children and pensioners, they will not. Our children will go to kindergartens and schools, theirs will be sitting in cellars. Because they do not know anything how to do! That’s how we are going to win this war”, stated Poroshenko”. Such statements are reported by the Channel One.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/11/2023 12:55:17
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2095450
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


SCIENCE said:

Turns Out That Tunnels Are Dual Use Items Especially When There Is An Invading Colonial Slash Communist Power Conducting Ground Incursion Special Military Operations ¡

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-18/kharkiv-builds-underground-schools-as-russia-keeps-up-attacks/103121314

Kharkiv region have begun building heavily fortified underground schools

“schools”

oh wait



When meeting today with law enforcement officials President Poroshenko said that there was only peaceful political settlement of this problem. And today a fragment of his earlier speech in Odesa appeared in Internet. In this speech Poroshenko called Odesa a Banderist city, making the best compliment in his opinion. But there was something more. Here is the settlement of the problem by Kyiv authority back at that time: severe economic pressure of Ukrainian citizens. “We will have jobs, they will not. We will have pensions, they will not. We will have support of children and pensioners, they will not. Our children will go to kindergartens and schools, theirs will be sitting in cellars. Because they do not know anything how to do! That’s how we are going to win this war”, stated Poroshenko”. Such statements are reported by the Channel One.

OK, you don’t need to be Einstein to work out that underground structures may be able to serve multiple purposes in times of emergency or conflict. The Russians are well aware of that. I suggest that you read Antony Beevor’s excellent ‘Stalingrad’, and Iain MacGregor’s ‘The Lighthouse of Stalingrad’ to see how they learnt that.

But, if your neighbours are likely to indulge in levelling as many of the above-ground structures in your cities as they can (which Ukraine’s history has shown to be a likely proposition), then it could hardly be deemed to be surprising or nefarious if, at some point, the idea of building underground facilities gets a serious hearing.

It’s not a bad idea at all. Wouldn’t it be good to have e.g. hospitals everywhere built underground, or into the sides of hills, so as to provide them with a better chance of surviving natural disasters, and being ready to help the injured in the aftermath?

Reply Quote

Date: 21/11/2023 12:42:40
From: dv
ID: 2096421
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

river has separated Ukrainian and Russian forces since Moscow’s troops withdrew from Kherson a year ago.

If the area is held it would mean a significant advance for Ukraine as it may be able to begin transferring armoured vehicles and air defence systems across the river putting it a step closer to breaking through to Crimea, the peninsula illegally annexed by Russia in 2014.

The success was claimed by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s chief of staff Andriy Yermak shortly after US-based experts said that marginal advances had been made into the village of Krynky, 2km (1.25 miles) inland from the river.

Russia conceded on 15 November that “small groups” of Ukrainian forces had set up positions in the village but insisted they had sustained heavy losses and had no chance of breaking through.

Vladimir Saldo, the Russian-installed official in charge of the Russian-occupied areas of the Kherson region, said they faced a “fiery hell”, adding: “Our additional forces have now been brought in. The enemy is trapped in Krynky.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682

Reply Quote

Date: 21/11/2023 21:18:03
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2096537
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Anti-Drone Technology Turns Armoured Personnel Carrier Into Prisoner Transport ¡

Reply Quote

Date: 21/11/2023 21:22:05
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2096539
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

SCIENCE said:

Anti-Drone Technology Turns Armoured Personnel Carrier Into Prisoner Transport ¡


Translated image:

Reply Quote

Date: 27/11/2023 08:31:11
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2097974
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Proof That It’s A Proxy War Between Military Industrial Complexity

https://mil.in.ua/en/articles/ukraine-ramps-up-mobile-air-defense-teams-to-combat-russian-drone-onslaught/

Reply Quote

Date: 1/12/2023 10:38:40
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2098974
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Wait We Thought Ukraine Were Totally P\\//\/1/\/9 Those Russian N00bz ¿

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/11/30/putin-seems-to-be-winning-the-war-in-ukraine-for-now

Reply Quote

Date: 1/12/2023 23:40:47
From: JudgeMental
ID: 2099298
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Russia wants Portugal to be part of their empire. and California.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPQgzKtNy88

Link

start 4:06

Reply Quote

Date: 1/12/2023 23:42:41
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2099301
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

JudgeMental said:


Russia wants Portugal to be part of their empire. and California.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPQgzKtNy88

Link

start 4:06


I’d be more inclined to suggest Gibraltar considering Britain’s moves at the moment

Reply Quote

Date: 2/12/2023 13:22:33
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2099486
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

He added that mercury and arsenic were used in the attack, and that traces of heavy metals had also been detected in other GUR employees’ blood, though he did not specify how many.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/12/2023 13:39:25
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2099490
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

SCIENCE said:

He added that mercury and arsenic were used in the attack, and that traces of heavy metals had also been detected in other GUR employees’ blood, though he did not specify how many.

Who he?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/12/2023 13:44:32
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2099492
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

He added that mercury and arsenic were used in the attack, and that traces of heavy metals had also been detected in other GUR employees’ blood, though he did not specify how many.

Who he?

Юсов, Андрій

Reply Quote

Date: 2/12/2023 14:46:59
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 2099519
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


SCIENCE said:

He added that mercury and arsenic were used in the attack, and that traces of heavy metals had also been detected in other GUR employees’ blood, though he did not specify how many.

Who he?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-02/ukraine-spy-chief-wife-alleged-assassination-poison-is-back/103168246

Link

Reply Quote

Date: 2/12/2023 15:48:13
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2099531
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Investigators find train in Russian tunnel was blown up in ‘terrorist act’ – newspaper
Reuters
December 1, 202311:02 PM GMT+11

Dec 1 (Reuters) – Investigators have concluded that a train that caught fire in Russia’s longest tunnel on Wednesday was blown up in a “terrorist act” by unidentified individuals, the Kommersant newspaper reported on Friday.

A Ukrainian source told Reuters on Thursday that the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) had detonated explosives in the rail tunnel in Siberia because Russia had been using the route for military supplies.

Read more:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/investigators-find-train-russian-tunnel-was-blown-up-terrorist-act-newspaper-2023-12-01/

Reply Quote

Date: 3/12/2023 10:30:53
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2099787
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Ukraine removes Kissinger from ‘kill list’
The veteran US diplomat, who died on Wednesday, had been added to the ‘Peacemaker’ database for allegedly spreading anti-Kiev narratives

Reply Quote

Date: 3/12/2023 10:38:08
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 2099793
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:

Ukraine removes Kissinger from ‘kill list’
The veteran US diplomat, who died on Wednesday, had been added to the ‘Peacemaker’ database for allegedly spreading anti-Kiev narratives

RIP Kissinger.

I used to love him.
But more recently I’ve become a bit more cynical about US diplomats in general.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/12/2023 20:18:20
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2099968
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Abrams tanks are the AFU’s new biggest problem.

According to Forbes, the air filters on the engine intakes have to be cleaned every 12 hours or the tanks will soon have to be sent for overhaul.

“All those things can be taught to the crew, but if ever they make a mistake—and they will—it blows a million-dollar engine that can’t be repaired in the field,” former U.S. Army General Mark Hertling stressed.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/12/2023 20:24:47
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2099969
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Witty Rejoinder said:


Investigators find train in Russian tunnel was blown up in ‘terrorist act’ – newspaper
Reuters
December 1, 202311:02 PM GMT+11

Dec 1 (Reuters) – Investigators have concluded that a train that caught fire in Russia’s longest tunnel on Wednesday was blown up in a “terrorist act” by unidentified individuals, the Kommersant newspaper reported on Friday.

A Ukrainian source told Reuters on Thursday that the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) had detonated explosives in the rail tunnel in Siberia because Russia had been using the route for military supplies.

Read more:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/investigators-find-train-russian-tunnel-was-blown-up-terrorist-act-newspaper-2023-12-01/


Its been real quiet from the Russian side about this

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Date: 5/12/2023 21:17:42
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Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Miscalculations, divisions marked offensive planning by U.S., Ukraine

By Washington Post Staff
December 4, 2023 at 6:00 a.m. EST

On June 15, in a conference room at NATO headquarters in Brussels, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, flanked by top U.S. commanders, sat around a table with his Ukrainian counterpart, who was joined by aides from Kyiv. The room was heavy with an air of frustration.

Austin, in his deliberate baritone, asked Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov about Ukraine’s decision-making in the opening days of its long-awaited counteroffensive, pressing him on why his forces weren’t using Western-supplied mine-clearing equipment to enable a larger, mechanized assault, or using smoke to conceal their advances. Despite Russia’s thick defensive lines, Austin said, the Kremlin’s troops weren’t invincible.

Part one:

Over three months, reporters in Washington, London, Brussels and Riga, Latvia, as well as in Kyiv and near the front lines in Ukraine, spoke to more than 30 senior officials from Ukraine, the United States and European nations to examine the military planning behind the counteroffensive and how that contributed to the operation failing to achieve its goals. The Post spoke to former Russian service members who had fought in the war, as well as Russian war bloggers and analysts.
Washington Post reporters, photographers, news assistants and security advisers drove hundreds of miles throughout Ukraine to speak to soldiers and government officials for this series. Journalists made numerous front-line visits in the Zaporizhzhia and Donetsk regions, including in embeds with combat units within five miles of Russian forces.

Reznikov, a bald, bespectacled lawyer, said Ukraine’s military commanders were the ones making those decisions. But he noted that Ukraine’s armored vehicles were being destroyed by Russian helicopters, drones and artillery with every attempt to advance. Without air support, he said, the only option was to use artillery to shell Russian lines, dismount from the targeted vehicles and proceed on foot.

“We can’t maneuver because of the land-mine density and tank ambushes,” Reznikov said, according to an official who was present.

The meeting in Brussels, less than two weeks into the campaign, illustrates how a counteroffensive born in optimism has failed to deliver its expected punch, generating friction and second-guessing between Washington and Kyiv and raising deeper questions about Ukraine’s ability to retake decisive amounts of territory.

As winter approaches, and the front lines freeze into place, Ukraine’s most senior military officials acknowledge that the war has reached a stalemate.

This examination of the lead-up to Ukraine’s counteroffensive is based on interviews with more than 30 senior officials from Ukraine, the United States and European nations. It provides new insights and previously unreported details about America’s deep involvement in the military planning behind the counteroffensive and the factors that contributed to its disappointments. The second part of this two-part account examines how the battle unfolded on the ground over the summer and fall, and the widening fissures between Washington and Kyiv. Some of the officials spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive deliberations.

Key elements that shaped the counteroffensive and the initial outcome include:

● Ukrainian, U.S. and British military officers held eight major tabletop war games to build a campaign plan. But Washington miscalculated the extent to which Ukraine’s forces could be transformed into a Western-style fighting force in a short period — especially without giving Kyiv air power integral to modern militaries.

● U.S. and Ukrainian officials sharply disagreed at times over strategy, tactics and timing. The Pentagon wanted the assault to begin in mid-April to prevent Russia from continuing to strengthen its lines. The Ukrainians hesitated, insisting they weren’t ready without additional weapons and training.

● U.S. military officials were confident that a mechanized frontal attack on Russian lines was feasible with the troops and weapons that Ukraine had. The simulations concluded that Kyiv’s forces, in the best case, could reach the Sea of Azov and cut off Russian troops in the south in 60 to 90 days.

● The United States advocated a focused assault along that southern axis, but Ukraine’s leadership believed its forces had to attack at three distinct points along the 600-mile front, southward toward both Melitopol and Berdyansk on the Sea of Azov and east toward the embattled city of Bakhmut.

● The U.S. intelligence community had a more downbeat view than the U.S. military, assessing that the offensive had only a 50-50 chance of success given the stout, multilayered defenses Russia had built up over the winter and spring.

● Many in Ukraine and the West underestimated Russia’s ability to rebound from battlefield disasters and exploit its perennial strengths: manpower, mines and a willingness to sacrifice lives on a scale that few other countries can countenance.

● As the expected launch of the offensive approached, Ukrainian military officials feared they would suffer catastrophic losses — while American officials believed the toll would ultimately be higher without a decisive assault.

The year began with Western resolve at its peak, Ukrainian forces highly confident and President Volodymyr Zelensky predicting a decisive victory. But now, there is uncertainty on all fronts. Morale in Ukraine is waning. International attention has been diverted to the Middle East. Even among Ukraine’s supporters, there is growing political reluctance to contribute more to a precarious cause. At almost every point along the front, expectations and results have diverged as Ukraine has shifted to a slow-moving dismounted slog that has retaken only slivers of territory.

“We wanted faster results,” Zelensky said in an interview with the Associated Press last week. “From that perspective, unfortunately, we did not achieve the desired results. And this is a fact.”

Together, all these factors make victory for Ukraine far less likely than years of war and destruction.

The campaign’s inconclusive and discouraging early months pose sobering questions for Kyiv’s Western backers about the future, as Zelensky — supported by an overwhelming majority of Ukrainians — vows to fight until Ukraine restores the borders established in its 1991 independence from the Soviet Union.

“That’s going to take years and a lot of blood,” a British security official said, if it’s even possible. “Is Ukraine up for that? What are the manpower implications? The economic implications? Implications for Western support?”

The year now stands to end with Russian President Vladimir Putin more certain than ever that he can wait out a fickle West and fully absorb the Ukrainian territory already seized by his troops.

Gaming out the battle plan
In a conference call in the late fall of 2022, after Kyiv had won back territory in the north and south, Austin spoke with Gen. Valery Zaluzhny, Ukraine’s top military commander, and asked him what he would need for a spring offensive. Zaluzhny responded that he required 1,000 armored vehicles and nine new brigades, trained in Germany and ready for battle.

“I took a big gulp,” Austin said later, according to an official with knowledge of the call. “That’s near-impossible,” he told colleagues.

In the first months of 2023, military officials from Britain, Ukraine and the United States concluded a series of war games at a U.S. Army base in Wiesbaden, Germany, where Ukrainian officers were embedded with a newly established command responsible for supporting Kyiv’s fight.

The sequence of eight high-level tabletop exercises formed the backbone for the U.S.-enabled effort to hone a viable, detailed campaign plan, and to determine what Western nations would need to provide to give it the means to succeed.

“We brought all the allies and partners together and really squeezed them hard to get additional mechanized vehicles,” a senior U.S. defense official said.

During the simulations, each of which lasted several days, participants were designated to play the part either of Russian forces — whose capabilities and behavior were informed by Ukrainian and allied intelligence — or Ukrainian troops and commanders, whose performance was bound by the reality that they would be facing serious constraints in manpower and ammunition.

Russia held these Ukrainian teens captive. Their testimonies could be used against Putin.

The planners ran the exercises using specialized war-gaming software and Excel spreadsheets — and, sometimes, simply by moving pieces around on a map. The simulations included smaller component exercises that each focused on a particular element of the fight — offensive operations or logistics. The conclusions were then fed back into the evolving campaign plan.

Top officials including Gen. Mark A. Milley, then chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Col. Gen. Oleksandr Syrsky, commander of Ukrainian ground forces, attended several of the simulations and were briefed on the results.

Col. Gen. Oleksandr Syrsky, commander of Ukrainian ground forces, who attended several of the war games in Germany used to plan the Ukrainian counteroffensive. (Illustration by Emily Sabens/The Washington Post; Anastasia Vlasova for The Washington Post; iStock)
During one visit to Wiesbaden, Milley spoke with Ukrainian special operations troops — who were working with American Green Berets — in the hope of inspiring them ahead of operations in enemy-controlled areas.

“There should be no Russian who goes to sleep without wondering if they’re going to get their throat slit in the middle of the night,” Milley said, according to an official with knowledge of the event. “You gotta get back there, and create a campaign behind the lines.”

Ukrainian officials hoped the offensive could re-create the success of the fall of 2022, when they recovered parts of the Kharkiv region in the northeast and the city of Kherson in the south in a campaign that surprised even Ukraine’s biggest backers. Again, their focus would be in more than one place.

But Western officials said the war games affirmed their assessment that Ukraine would be best served by concentrating its forces on a single strategic objective — a massed attack through Russian-held areas to the Sea of Azov, severing the Kremlin’s land route from Russia to Crimea, a critical supply line.

The rehearsals gave the United States the opportunity to say at several points to the Ukrainians, “I know you really, really, really want to do this, but it’s not going to work,” one former U.S. official said.

At the end of the day, though, it would be Zelensky, Zaluzhny and other Ukrainian leaders who would make the decision, the former official noted.

Officials tried to assign probabilities to different scenarios, including a Russian capitulation — deemed a “really low likelihood” — or a major Ukrainian setback that would create an opening for a major Russian counterattack — also a slim probability.

“Then what you’ve got is the reality in the middle, with degrees of success,” a British official said.

The most optimistic scenario for cutting the land bridge was 60 to 90 days. The exercises also predicted a difficult and bloody fight, with losses of soldiers and equipment as high as 30 to 40 percent, according to U.S. officials.

The United States was deeply involved in the military planning behind the operation. Ukrainian, U.S. and British military officers held eight major tabletop war games to build a campaign plan.

U.S. and Ukrainian officials sharply disagreed at times over strategy, tactics and timing.
The Pentagon wanted the assault to begin in mid-April to prevent Russia from continuing to strengthen its lines. The Ukrainians hesitated, insisting they weren’t ready without additional weapons and more training. The counteroffensive began in June.
U.S. military officials were confident that a mass, mechanized frontal attack along one axis in the south of Ukraine would lead to a decisive breakthrough. Ukraine attacked along three axes, believing that would stretch Russian forces. Ukraine abandoned large, mechanized assaults when it suffered serious losses in the first days of the campaign.
The wargame simulations concluded that Kyiv’s forces, in the best case, could reach the Sea of Azov in the south of Ukraine and cut off Russian troops in 60 to 90 days. Ukrainian forces have advanced only about 12 miles. The Sea of Azov is still far out of reach. Ukraine’s top commander now acknowledges that the war has reached a “stalemate.”

American military officers had seen casualties come in far lower than estimated in the major battles of Iraq and Afghanistan. They considered the estimates a starting point for planning medical care and battlefield evacuation so that losses never reached the projected levels.

The numbers “can be sobering,” the senior U.S. defense official said. “But they never are as high as predicted, because we know we have to do things to make sure we don’t.”

U.S. officials also believed that more Ukrainian troops would ultimately be killed if Kyiv failed to mount a decisive assault and the conflict became a drawn-out war of attrition.

But they acknowledged the delicacy of suggesting a strategy that would entail significant losses, no matter the final figure.

“It was easy for us to tell them in a tabletop exercise, ‘Okay, you’ve just got to focus on one place and push really hard,’” a senior U.S. official said. “They were going to lose a lot of people and they were going to lose a lot of the equipment.”

Those choices, the senior official said, become “much harder on the battlefield.”

On that, a senior Ukrainian military official agreed. War-gaming “doesn’t work,” the official said in retrospect, in part because of the new technology that was transforming the battlefield. Ukrainian soldiers were fighting a war unlike anything NATO forces had experienced: a large conventional conflict, with World World I-style trenches overlaid by omnipresent drones and other futuristic tools — and without the air superiority the U.S. military has had in every modern conflict it has fought.

“All these methods … you can take them neatly and throw them away, you know?” the senior Ukrainian said of the war-game scenarios. “And throw them away because it doesn’t work like that now.”

Disagreements about deployments
The Americans had long questioned the wisdom of Kyiv’s decision to keep forces around the besieged eastern city of Bakhmut.

Ukrainians saw it differently. “Bakhmut holds” had become shorthand for pride in their troops’ fierce resistance against a bigger enemy. For months, Russian and Ukrainian artillery had pulverized the city. Soldiers killed and wounded one another by the thousands to make gains measured sometimes by city blocks.

The city finally fell to Russia in May.

Before-and-after images of the destroyed Ukrainian city of Bakhmut

Zelensky, backed by his top commander, stood firm about the need to retain a major presence around Bakhmut and strike Russian forces there as part of the counteroffensive. To that end, Zaluzhny maintained more forces near Bakhmut than he did in the south, including the country’s most experienced units, U.S. officials observed with frustration.

Ukrainian officials argued that they needed to sustain a robust fight in the Bakhmut area because otherwise Russia would try to reoccupy parts of the Kharkiv region and advance in Donetsk — a key objective for Putin, who wants to seize that whole region.

“We told , ‘If you assumed the seats of our generals, you’d see that if we don’t make Bakhmut a point of contention, would,’” one senior Ukrainian official said. “We can’t let that happen.”

In addition, Zaluzhny envisioned making the formidable length of the 600-mile front a problem for Russia, according to the senior British official. The Ukrainian general wanted to stretch Russia’s much larger occupying force — unfamiliar with the terrain and already facing challenges with morale and logistics — to dilute its fighting power.

Western officials saw problems with that approach, which would also diminish the firepower of Ukraine’s military at any single point of attack. Western military doctrine dictated a concentrated push toward a single objective.

The Americans yielded, however.

“They know the terrain. They know the Russians,” said a senior U.S. official. “It’s not our war. And we had to kind of sit back into that.”

The weapons Kyiv needed
On Feb. 3, Jake Sullivan, President Biden’s national security adviser, called together the administration’s top national security officials to review the counteroffensive plan.

The White House’s subterranean Situation Room was being renovated, so the top echelons of the State, Defense and Treasury departments, along with the CIA, gathered in a secure conference room in the adjacent Eisenhower Executive Office Building.

Most were already familiar with Ukraine’s three-pronged approach. The goal was for Biden’s senior advisers to voice their approval or reservations to one another and try to reach consensus on their joint advice to the president.

The questions posed by Sullivan were simple, said a person who attended. First, could Washington and its partners successfully prepare Ukraine to break through Russia’s heavily fortified defenses?

And then, even if the Ukrainians were prepared, “could they actually do it?”

Milley, with his ever-ready green maps of Ukraine, displayed the potential axes of attack and the deployment of Ukrainian and Russian forces. He and Austin explained their conclusion that “Ukraine, to be successful, needed to fight a different way,” one senior administration official closely involved in the planning recalled.

Ukraine’s military, after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, had become a defensive force. Since 2014 it had focused on a grinding but low-level fight against Russian-backed forces in the eastern Donbas region. To orchestrate a large-scale advance would require a significant shift in its force structure and tactics.

The planning called for wider and better Western training, which up to that point had focused on teaching small groups and individuals to use Western-provided weapons. Thousands of troops would be instructed in Germany in large unit formations and U.S.-style battlefield maneuvers, whose principles dated to World War II. For American troops, training in what was known as “combined arms” operations often lasted more than a year. The Ukraine plan proposed condensing that into a few months.

Instead of firing artillery, then “inching forward” and firing some more, the Ukrainians would be “fighting and shooting at the same time,” with newly trained brigades moving forward with armored vehicles and artillery support “in a kind of symphonic way,” the senior administration official said.

The Biden administration announced in early January that it would send Bradley Fighting Vehicles; Britain agreed to transfer 14 Challenger tanks. Later that month, after a grudging U.S. announcement that it would provide top-line Abrams M1 tanks by the fall, Germany and other NATO nations pledged hundreds of German-made Leopard tanks in time for the counteroffensive.

A far bigger problem was the supply of 155mm shells, which would enable Ukraine to compete with Russia’s vast artillery arsenal. The Pentagon calculated that Kyiv needed 90,000 or more a month. While U.S. production was increasing, it was barely more than a tenth of that.

“It was just math,” the former senior official said. “At a certain point, we just wouldn’t be able to provide them.”

As Ukraine flies through artillery rounds, U.S. races to keep up

Sullivan laid out options. South Korea had massive quantities of the U.S.-provided munitions, but its laws prohibited sending weapons to war zones. The Pentagon calculated that about 330,000 155mm shells could be transferred by air and sea within 41 days if Seoul could be persuaded.

Senior administration officials had been speaking with counterparts in Seoul, who were receptive as long as the provision was indirect. The shells began to flow at the beginning of the year, eventually making South Korea a larger supplier of artillery ammunition for Ukraine than all European nations combined.

The more immediate alternative would entail tapping the U.S. military’s arsenal of 155mm shells that, unlike the South Korean variant, were packed with cluster munitions. The Pentagon had thousands of them, gathering dust for decades. But Secretary of State Antony Blinken balked.

Inside the warhead of those cluster weapons, known officially as Dual-Purpose Improved Conventional Munitions, or DPICMs, were dozens of bomblets that would scatter across a wide area. Some would inevitably fail to explode, posing a long-term danger to civilians, and 120 countries — including most U.S. allies but not Ukraine or Russia — had signed a treaty banning them. Sending them would cost the United States some capital on the war’s moral high ground.

In the face of Blinken’s strong objections, Sullivan tabled consideration of DPICMs. They would not be referred to Biden for approval, at least for now.

Can Ukraine win?
With the group agreeing that the United States and allies could provide what they believed were the supplies and training Ukraine needed, Sullivan faced the second part of the equation: Could Ukraine do it?

Zelensky, on the war’s first anniversary in February, had boasted that 2023 would be a “year of victory.” His intelligence chief had decreed that Ukrainians would soon be vacationing in Crimea, the peninsula that Russia had illegally annexed in 2014. But some in the U.S. government were less than confident.

U.S. intelligence officials, skeptical of the Pentagon’s enthusiasm, assessed the likelihood of success at no better than 50-50. The estimate frustrated their Defense Department counterparts, especially those at U.S. European Command, who recalled the spies’ erroneous prediction in the days before the 2022 invasion that Kyiv would fall to the Russians within days.

Some defense officials observed caustically that optimism was not in intelligence officials’ DNA — they were the “Eeyores” of government, the former senior official said, and it was always safer to bet on failure.

“Part of it was just the fact of the sheer weight of the Russian military,” CIA Director William J. Burns later reflected in an interview. “For all their incompetence in the first year of the war, they had managed to launch a shambolic partial mobilization to fill a lot of the gaps in the front. In Zaporizhzhia” — the key line of the counteroffensive if the land bridge was to be severed — “we could see them building really quite formidable fixed defenses, hard to penetrate, really costly, really bloody for the Ukrainians.”

Perhaps more than any other senior official, Burns, a former ambassador to Russia, had traveled multiple times to Kyiv over the previous year, sometimes in secret, to meet with his Ukrainian counterparts, as well as with Zelensky and his senior military officials. He appreciated the Ukrainians’ most potent weapon — their will to fight an existential threat.

“Your heart is in it,” Burns said of his hopes for helping Ukraine succeed. “But … our broader intelligence assessment was that this was going to be a really tough slog.”

Two weeks after Sullivan and others briefed the president, a top-secret, updated intelligence report assessed that the challenges of massing troops, ammunition and equipment meant that Ukraine would probably fall “well short” of its counteroffensive goals.

The West had so far declined to grant Ukraine’s request for fighter jets and the Army Tactical Missile System, or ATACMS, which could reach targets farther behind Russian lines, and which the Ukrainians felt they needed to strike key Russian command and supply sites.

“You are not going to go from an emerging, post-Soviet legacy military to the U.S. Army of 2023 overnight,” a senior Western intelligence official said. “It is foolish for some to expect that you can give them things and it changes the way they fight.”

U.S. military officials did not dispute that it would be a bloody struggle. By early 2023, they knew that as many as 130,000 Ukrainian troops had been injured or killed in the war, including many of the country’s best soldiers. Some Ukrainian commanders were already expressing doubts about the coming campaign, citing the numbers of troops who lacked battlefield experience.

Yet the Pentagon had also worked closely with Ukrainian forces. Officials had watched them fight courageously and had overseen the effort to provide them with large amounts of sophisticated arms. U.S. military officials argued that the intelligence estimates failed to account for the firepower of the newly arriving weaponry, as well as the Ukrainians’ will to win.

“The plan that they executed was entirely feasible with the force that they had, on the timeline that we planned out,” a senior U.S. military official said.

Austin knew that additional time for training on new tactics and equipment would be beneficial but that Ukraine didn’t have that luxury.

“In a perfect world, you get a choice. You keep saying, ‘I want to take six more months to train up and feel comfortable about this,’” he said in an interview. “My take is that they didn’t have a choice. They were in a fight for their lives.”

Russia gets ready
By March, Russia was already many months into preparing its defenses, building miles upon miles of barriers, trenches and other obstacles across the front in anticipation of the Ukrainian push.

After stinging defeats in the Kharkiv region and Kherson in the fall of 2022, Russia seemed to pivot. Putin appointed Gen. Sergei Surovikin — known as “General Armageddon” for his merciless tactics in Syria — to lead Russia’s fight in Ukraine, focusing on digging in rather than taking more territory.

In the months after the 2022 invasion, Russian trenches were basic — flood-prone, straight-line pits nicknamed “corpse lines,” according to Ruslan Leviev, an analyst and co-founder of the Conflict Intelligence Team, which has been tracking Russian military activity in Ukraine since 2014.

But Russia adapted as the war wore on, digging drier, zigzagging trenches that better protected soldiers from shelling. As the trenches eventually grew more sophisticated, they opened up into forests to offer better means for defenders to fall back, Leviev said. The Russians built tunnels between positions to counter Ukraine’s extensive use of drones, he added.

The trenches were part of multilayered defenses that included dense minefields, concrete pyramids known as dragon’s teeth, and antitank ditches. If minefields were disabled, Russian forces had rocket-borne systems to reseed them.

Unlike Russia’s offensive efforts early in the war, these defenses followed textbook Soviet standards. “This is one case where they have implemented their doctrine,” a senior Western intelligence official said.

Konstantin Yefremov, a former officer with Russia’s 42nd motorized rifle division who was stationed in Zaporizhzhia in 2022, recalled that Russia had the equipment and grunt power necessary to build a solid wall against attack.

“Putin’s army is experiencing shortages of various arms, but can literally swim in mines,” Yefremov said in an interview after fleeing to the West. “They have millions of them, both antitank and antipersonnel mines.”

The poverty, desperation and fear of the tens of thousands of conscripted Russian soldiers made them an ideal workforce. “All you need is slave power,” he said. “And even more so, Russian rank-and-file soldiers know they are for themselves, to save their skin.”

In addition, in a tactic used in both World War I and II, Surovikin would deploy blocking units behind the Russian troops to prevent them from retreating, sometimes under pain of death.

Their options were “either to die from our units or from their own,” said Ukrainian police Col. Oleksandr Netrebko, the commander of a newly formed police brigade fighting near Bakhmut.

Yet, while Russia had far more troops, a deeper military arsenal and what one U.S. official said was “just a willingness to endure really dramatic losses,” U.S. officials knew it also had serious vulnerabilities.

By early 2023, some 200,000 Russian soldiers had been killed or wounded, U.S. intelligence agencies estimated, including scores of highly trained commandos. Replacement troops who were rushed into Ukraine lacked experience. Turnover of field leaders had hurt command and control. Equipment losses were equally staggering: more than 2,000 tanks, some 4,000 armored fighting vehicles and at least 75 aircraft, according to a Pentagon document leaked on the Discord chat platform in the spring.

The assessment was that the Russian force was insufficient to protect every line of conflict. But unless Ukraine got underway quickly, the Kremlin could make up its deficits inside of a year, or less if it got more outside help from friendly nations such as Iran and North Korea.

It was imperative, U.S. officials argued, for Ukraine to launch.

More troops, more weapons
In late April, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg made an unannounced trip to see Zelensky in Kyiv.

Stoltenberg, a former Norwegian prime minister, was in town to discuss preparations for the NATO summit in July, including Kyiv’s push to join the alliance.

But over a working lunch with a handful of ministers and aides, talk turned to preparation for the counteroffensive — how things were going and what was left to be done.

Stoltenberg — due the next day in Germany for a meeting of the Ukraine Defense Contact Group, a consortium of roughly 50 countries providing weaponry and other support to Kyiv — asked about efforts to equip and train Ukrainian brigades by the end of April, according to two people familiar with the talks.

Zelensky reported that the Ukrainian military expected the brigades to be at 80 or 85 percent by the end of the month, the people said. That seemed at odds with American expectations that Ukraine should already be ready to launch.

The Ukrainian leader also stressed that his troops had to hold the east to keep Russia from shifting forces to block Kyiv’s southern counteroffensive. To defend the east while also pushing south, he said, Ukraine needed more brigades, the two people recalled.

Ukrainian officials also continued to make the case that an expanded arsenal was central to their ability to succeed. It wasn’t until May, on the eve of the fight, that Britain announced it would provide longer-range Storm Shadow missiles. But another core refrain from Ukraine was that they were being asked to fight in a way no NATO nation would ever contemplate — without effective power in the air.

As one former senior Ukrainian official pointed out, his country’s aging MiG-29 fighter jets could detect targets within a 40-mile radius and fire at a range of 20 miles. Russia’s Su-35s, meanwhile, could identify targets more than 90 miles away and shoot them down as far away as 75 miles.

“Imagine a MiG and a Su-35 in the sky. We don’t see them while they see us. We can’t reach them while they can reach us,” the official said. “That’s why we fought so hard for F-16s.”

American officials pointed out that even a few of the $60 million aircraft would eat up funds that could go much further in buying vehicles, air defenses or ammunition. Moreover, they said, the jets wouldn’t provide the air superiority the Ukrainians craved.

“If you could train a bunch of F-16 pilots in three months, they would have got shot down on day one, because the Russian air defenses in Ukraine are very robust and very capable,” a senior defense official said.

Biden finally yielded in May and granted the required permission for European nations to donate their U.S.-made F-16s to Ukraine. But pilot training and delivery of the jets would take a year or more, far too long to make a difference in the coming fight.

Kyiv hesitates
By May, concern was growing within the Biden administration and among allied backers. According to the planning, Ukraine should have already launched its operations. As far as the U.S. military was concerned, the window of opportunity was shrinking fast. Intelligence over the winter had shown that Russian defenses were relatively weak and largely unmanned, and that morale was low among Russian troops after their losses in Kharkiv and Kherson. U.S. intelligence assessed that senior Russian officers felt the prospects were bleak.

But that assessment was changing quickly. The goal had been to strike before Moscow was ready, and the U.S. military had been trying since mid-April to get the Ukrainians moving. “We were given dates. We were given many dates,” a senior U.S. government official said. “We had April this, May that, you know, June. It just kept getting delayed.”

Meanwhile, enemy defenses were thickening. U.S. military officials were dismayed to see Russian forces use those weeks in April and May to seed significant amounts of additional mines, a development the officials believed ended up making Ukrainian troops’ advance substantially harder.

Washington was also getting worried that the Ukrainians were burning up too many artillery shells, primarily around Bakhmut, that were needed for the counteroffensive.

As May ground on, it seemed to the Americans that Kyiv, gung-ho during the war games and the training, had abruptly slowed down — that there was “some type of switch in psychology” where they got to the brink “and then all of a sudden they thought, ‘Well, let’s triple-check, make sure we’re comfortable,’” said one administration official who was part of the planning. “But they were telling us for almost a month … ‘We’re about to go. We’re about to go.’”

Some senior American officials believed there wasn’t conclusive proof that the delay had altered Ukraine’s chances for success. Others saw clear indications that the Kremlin had successfully exploited the interim along what it believed would be Kyiv’s lines of assault.

In Ukraine, a different kind of frustration was building. “When we had a calculated timeline, yes, the plan was to start the operation in May,” said a former senior Ukrainian official who was deeply involved in the effort. “However, many things happened.”

Promised equipment was delivered late or arrived unfit for combat, the Ukrainians said. “A lot of weapons that are coming in now, they were relevant last year,” the senior Ukrainian military official said, not for the high-tech battles ahead. Crucially, he said, they had received only 15 percent of items — like the Mine Clearing Line Charge launchers (MCLCs) — needed to execute their plan to remotely cut passages through the minefields.

And yet, the senior Ukrainian military official recalled, the Americans were nagging about a delayed start and still complaining about how many troops Ukraine was devoting to Bakhmut.

U.S. officials vehemently denied that the Ukrainians did not get all the weaponry they were promised. Ukraine’s wish list may have been far bigger, the Americans acknowledged, but by the time the offensive began, they had received nearly two dozen MCLCs, more than 40 mine rollers and excavators, 1,000 Bangalore torpedoes, and more than 80,000 smoke grenades. Zaluzhny had requested 1,000 armored vehicles; the Pentagon ultimately delivered 1,500.

“They got everything they were promised, on time,” one senior U.S. official said. In some cases, the officials said, Ukraine failed to deploy equipment critical to the offensive, holding it in reserve or allocating it to units that weren’t part of the assault.

Then there was the weather. The melting snow and heavy rains that turn parts of Ukraine into a soup of heavy mud each spring had come late and lasted longer than usual.

In the middle of 2022, when the thinking about a counteroffensive began, “no one knew the weather forecast,” the former senior Ukrainian official said.

That meant it was unclear when the flat plains and rich black soil of southeastern Ukraine, which could act as a glue grabbing hold of boots and tires, would dry out for summer. The Ukrainians understood the uncertainty because they, unlike the Americans, lived there.

As the preparations accelerated, Ukrainian officials’ concerns grew more acute, erupting at a meeting at Ramstein Air Base in Germany in April when Zaluzhny’s deputy, Mykhailo Zabrodskyi, made an emotional appeal for help.

“We’re sorry, but some of the vehicles we received are unfit for combat,” Zabrodskyi told Austin and his aides, according to a former senior Ukrainian official. He said the Bradleys and Leopards had broken or missing tracks. German Marder fighting vehicles lacked radio sets; they were nothing more than iron boxes with tracks — useless if they couldn’t communicate with their units, he said. Ukrainian officials said the units for the counteroffensive lacked sufficient de-mining and evacuation vehicles.

Austin looked at Gen. Christopher Cavoli, the top U.S. commander for Europe, and Lt. Gen. Antonio Aguto, head of the Security Assistance Group-Ukraine, both sitting next to him. They said they’d check.

The Pentagon concluded that Ukrainian forces were failing to properly handle and maintain all the equipment after it was received. Austin directed Aguto to work more intensively with his Ukrainian counterparts on maintenance.

“Even if you deliver 1,300 vehicles that are working fine, there’s going to be some that break between the time that you get them on the ground there and the time they enter combat,” a senior defense official said.

By June 1, the top echelons at U.S. European Command and the Pentagon were frustrated and felt like they were getting few answers. Maybe the Ukrainians were daunted by the potential casualties? Perhaps there were political disagreements within the Ukrainian leadership, or problems along the chain of command?

The counteroffensive finally lurched into motion in early June. Some Ukrainian units quickly notched small gains, recapturing Zaporizhzhia-region villages south of Velyka Novosilka, 80 miles from the Azov coast. But elsewhere, not even Western arms and training could fully shield Ukrainian forces from the punishing Russian firepower.

When troops from the 37th Reconnaissance Brigade attempted an advance, they, like units elsewhere, immediately felt the force of Russia’s tactics. From the first minutes of their assault, they were overwhelmed by mortar fire that pierced their French AMX-10 RC armored vehicles. Their own artillery fire didn’t materialize as expected. Soldiers crawled out of burning vehicles. In one unit, 30 of 50 soldiers were captured, wounded or killed. Ukraine’s equipment losses in the initial days included 20 Bradley Fighting Vehicles and six German-made Leopard tanks.

Those early encounters landed like a thunderbolt among the officers in Zaluzhny’s command center, searing a question in their minds: Was the strategy doomed?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/04/ukraine-counteroffensive-us-planning-russia-war/?

In Ukraine, a war of incremental gains as counteroffensive stalls

By Washington Post Staff
December 4, 2023 at 6:00 a.m. EST

ZAPORIZHZHIA, Ukraine — Soldiers in the 47th Separate Mechanized Brigade waited for nightfall before piling — nervous but confident — into their U.S.-provided Bradley Fighting Vehicles. It was June 7 and Ukraine’s long-awaited counteroffensive was about to begin.

The goal for the first 24 hours was to advance nearly nine miles, reaching the village of Robotyne — an initial thrust south toward the larger objective of reclaiming Melitopol, a city near the Sea of Azov, and severing Russian supply lines.

Nothing went as planned.

Part two:
Reported by Michael Birnbaum, Karen DeYoung, Kamila Hrabchuk, Alex Horton, John Hudson, Mary Ilyushin, Kostiantyn Khudov, Isabelle Khurshudyan, Dan Lamothe, Kostiantyn Khudov, Serhii Korolchuk, Greg Miller, Serhiy Morgunov, Siobhán O’Grady, Emily Rauhala, David L. Stern, and Missy Ryan.
Written by Isabelle Khurshudyan.

Over three months, reporters in Washington, London, Brussels and Riga, Latvia, as well as in Kyiv and near the front lines in Ukraine, spoke to dozens of Ukrainian officers and troops and over 30 senior officials from Ukraine, the United States and European nations to examine how the counteroffensive unfolded on the ground, and the widening fissures between Kyiv and Washington. The Post spoke to former Russian service members who fought in the war, as well as Russian war bloggers and analysts.
Washington Post reporters, photographers, news assistants and security advisers drove hundreds of miles throughout Ukraine to speak to soldiers and government officials for this series. Journalists made numerous front-line visits in the Zaporizhzhia and Donetsk regions, including in embeds with combat units within five miles of Russian forces.

The Ukrainian troops had expected minefields but were blindsided by the density. The ground was carpeted with explosives, so many that some were buried in stacks. The soldiers had been trained to drive their Bradleys at a facility in Germany, on smooth terrain. But on the mushy soil of the Zaporizhzhia region, in the deafening noise of battle, they struggled to steer through the narrow lanes cleared of mines by advance units.

The Russians, positioned on higher ground, immediately started firing antitank missiles. Some vehicles in the convoy were hit, forcing others behind them to veer off the path. Those, in turn, exploded on mines, snarling even more of the convoy. Russian helicopters and drones swooped in and attacked the pileup.

Troops, some experiencing the shock of combat for the first time, pulled back to regroup — only to attack and retreat, again and again on successive days, with the same bloody results.

“It was hellfire,” said Oleh Sentsov, a platoon commander in the 47th.

By day four, Gen. Valery Zaluzhny, Ukraine’s top commander, had seen enough. Incinerated Western military hardware — American Bradleys, German Leopard tanks, mine-sweeping vehicles — littered the battlefield. The numbers of dead and wounded sapped morale.

Zaluzhny told his troops to pause their assaults before any more of Ukraine’s limited weaponry was obliterated, a senior Ukrainian military official said.

Rather than try to breach Russian defenses with a massed, mechanized attack and supporting artillery fire, as his American counterparts had advised, Zaluzhny decided that Ukrainian soldiers would go on foot in small groups of about 10 — a process that would save equipment and lives but would be much slower.

Months of planning with the United States was tossed aside on that fourth day, and the already delayed counteroffensive, designed to reach the Sea of Azov within two to three months, ground to a near-halt. Rather than making a nine-mile breakthrough on their first day, the Ukrainians in the nearly six months since June have advanced about 12 miles and liberated a handful of villages. Melitopol is still far out of reach.

This account of how the counteroffensive unfolded is the second in a two-part series and illuminates the brutal and often futile attempts to breach Russian lines, as well as the widening rift between Ukrainian and U.S. commanders over tactics and strategy. The first article examined the Ukrainian and U.S. planning that went into the operation.

This second part is based on interviews with more than 30 senior Ukrainian and U.S. military officials, as well as over two dozen officers and troops on the front line. Some officials and soldiers spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe military operations.

Key findings from reporting on the campaign include:

● Seventy percent of troops in one of the brigades leading the counteroffensive, and equipped with the newest Western weapons, entered battle with no combat experience.

● Ukraine’s setbacks on the battlefield led to rifts with the United States over how best to cut through deep Russian defenses.

● The commander of U.S. forces in Europe couldn’t get in touch with Ukraine’s top commander for weeks in the early part of the campaign amid tension over the American’s second-guessing of battlefield decisions.

● Each side blamed the other for mistakes or miscalculations. U.S. military officials concluded that Ukraine had fallen short in basic military tactics, including the use of ground reconnaissance to understand the density of minefields. Ukrainian officials said the Americans didn’t seem to comprehend how attack drones and other technology had transformed the battlefield.

● In all, Ukraine has retaken only about 200 square miles of territory, at a cost of thousands of dead and wounded and billions in Western military aid in 2023 alone.

Nearly six months after the counteroffensive began, the campaign has become a war of incremental gains. Damp World War I-style trenches lace eastern and southern Ukraine as surveillance and attack drones crowd the skies overhead. Moscow launches missile assaults on civilian targets in Ukrainian cities, while Kyiv is using both Western missiles and home-grown technology to strike far behind the front lines — in Moscow, in Crimea and on the Black Sea.

But the territorial lines of June 2023 have barely changed. And Russian President Vladimir Putin — in contrast to the silence he often maintained in the first year of the war — trumpets at every opportunity what he calls the counteroffensive’s failure. “As for the counteroffensive, which is allegedly stalling, it has failed completely,” Putin said in October.

Training for battle
On Jan. 16, five months before the start of Ukraine’s counteroffensive, Gen. Mark A. Milley, then chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, visited soldiers with the 47th, just days after the unit arrived at the Grafenwoehr Training Area in Germany.

Milley, trailed by staff and senior military officials based in Europe, zigzagged across a muddy, chilly training range, bantering with Ukrainian soldiers and watching as they fired on stationary targets with rifles and M240B machine guns.

The installation had been used to train small groups of Ukrainian soldiers since 2014, when Russia invaded and illegally annexed Ukraine’s Crimea Peninsula. In anticipation of the counteroffensive, the effort was scaled up with one or more battalions of about 600 Ukrainian soldiers cycling through at a time.

In a white field tent, Milley gathered with U.S. soldiers overseeing the training, who told him they were trying to replicate Russian tactics and build some of the trenches and other obstacles the Ukrainians would face in battle.

The United States was deeply involved in the military planning behind the operation. Ukrainian, U.S. and British military officers held eight major tabletop war games to build a campaign plan.

U.S. and Ukrainian officials sharply disagreed at times over strategy, tactics and timing.
The Pentagon wanted the assault to begin in mid-April to prevent Russia from continuing to strengthen its lines. The Ukrainians hesitated, insisting they weren’t ready without additional weapons and more training. The counteroffensive began in June.
U.S. military officials were confident that a mass, mechanized frontal attack along one axis in the south of Ukraine would lead to a decisive breakthrough. Ukraine attacked along three axes, believing that would stretch Russian forces. Ukraine abandoned large, mechanized assaults when it suffered serious losses in the first days of the campaign.
The wargame simulations concluded that Kyiv’s forces, in the best case, could reach the Sea of Azov in the south of Ukraine and cut off Russian troops in 60 to 90 days. Ukrainian forces have advanced only about 12 miles. The Sea of Azov is still far out of reach. Ukraine’s top commander now acknowledges that the war has reached a “stalemate.”

“The whole thing … for them to be successful with the Russians is for them to be able to both fire and maneuver,” Milley said, describing in basic terms the essence of the counteroffensive’s “combined arms” strategy, which called for coordinated maneuvers by a massed force of infantry, tanks, armored vehicles, engineers and artillery. If this were the United States or NATO, the operation also would have included devastating air power to weaken the enemy and protect troops on the ground, but the Ukrainians would have to make do with little or none.

The 47th had been selected to be a “breach force” at the tip of the counteroffensive and would be equipped with Western arms. But as Milley made his rounds and chatted with Ukrainian soldiers — from young men in their 20s to middle-aged recruits — many they told him that they had only recently left civilian life and had no combat experience.

Milley kept silent. But later, in the meeting with U.S. trainers, he seemed to acknowledge the scale of the task ahead. “Give them everything you’ve got here,” he said.

The 47th was a newly created unit tabbed for the training in Germany. Ukraine’s military leadership had decided that more-experienced brigades would hold off the Russians during the winter, while fresh soldiers would form new brigades, receive training abroad and then lead the fight in the spring and summer. More than a year of war — with up to 130,000 troops dead or wounded, according to Western estimates — had taken a heavy toll on Ukraine’s armed forces. Even the most battle-hardened brigades were now largely composed of drafted replacements.

About 70 percent of the soldiers in the 47th didn’t have any battlefield experience, according to one senior commander in the brigade.

The 47th’s leadership was also strikingly young — its commander, though combat-hardened, was just 28 years old and his deputy was 25. Their youth had been billed as an advantage; young officers would absorb NATO tactics unaffected by the Soviet way of war that still infused parts of the Ukrainian military.

Some of the Ukrainian soldiers thought the American trainers didn’t grasp the scale of the conflict against a more powerful enemy. “The presence of a huge number of drones, fortifications, minefields and so on were not taken into account,” said a soldier in the 47th with the call sign Joker. Ukrainian soldiers brought their own drones to help hone their skills, he said, but trainers initially rebuffed the request to integrate them because the training programs were predetermined. Drone use was later added following Ukrainian feedback, a U.S. official said.

The U.S. program had benefits, Joker said, including advanced cold-weather training and how to adjust artillery fire. But much was discarded once real bullets flew. “We had to improve tactics during the battle itself,” he said. “We couldn’t use it the way we were taught.”

U.S. and Ukrainian officials said they never expected that two months of training would transform these troops into a NATO-like force. Instead, the intention was to teach them to properly use their new Western tanks and fighting vehicles and “make them literate in the basics of firing and moving,” a U.S. senior military official said.

No order to attack
When soldiers from the 47th returned to Ukraine in the spring, they expected the counteroffensive to start almost immediately. In early May, the brigade relocated closer to the front line, hiding their Bradleys and other Western equipment in the tree lines of rural Zaporizhzhia. The 47th’s insignia on vehicles was covered up in case locals sympathetic to Russia might reveal their location.

But weeks passed with no order to attack. Many in the unit felt the element of surprise had been lost. The political leadership “shouldn’t have been announcing our counteroffensive for almost a year,” said one unit commander in the 47th. “The enemy knew where we’d be coming from.”

Milley and other senior U.S. military officers involved in planning the offensive argued for the Ukrainians to mass forces at one key spot in Zaporizhzhia, to help them overcome stiff Russian defenses and ensure a successful breakthrough in the drive to Melitopol and the Sea of Azov. The Ukrainian plan, however, was to push on three axes — south along two distinct paths to the Sea of Azov, as well as in eastern Ukraine around the besieged city of Bakhmut, which the Russians had seized in the spring after a nearly year-long battle.

Ukrainian military leaders decided that committing too many troops to one point in the south would leave forces in the east vulnerable and enable the Russians to take territory there and, potentially, in Kharkiv to the northeast.

To split the Russian forces in Zaporizhzhia, Ukrainian marine brigades at the western edge of the neighboring Donetsk region would push south toward the coastal city of Berdyansk. That left the 47th and other brigades, part of what Ukraine referred to as its 9th Corps, to attack along the counteroffensive’s main axis, toward Melitopol.

The plan called for the 47th, and the 9th Corps, to breach the first Russian line of defense and take Robotyne. Then the 10th Corps, made up of Ukraine’s paratroopers, would join the fight in a second wave pushing south.

“We thought it was going to be a simple two-day task” to take Robotyne, said the commander of a Bradley Fighting Vehicle who goes by the call sign Frenchman.

Mining all approaches
Days after the counteroffensive launched, Oleksandr Sak, then the 47th’s commander, visited a Russian position his troops had captured. He noted anti-drone guns, thermal imagery scopes and small surveillance drones, among other abandoned materiel. “I realized the enemy had prepared,” he said. “We didn’t catch them off-guard; they knew we were coming.”

Also left behind were posters with Russian propaganda. One showed an image of men kissing in public with a red “X” over it, next to an image of a man and woman with two children. “Fighting for traditional families,” the poster said.

Sak also found a map that the Russians had used to mark their minefields. For just one part of the front — about four miles long and four miles deep — more than 20,000 mines were listed.

Ukraine is now the most mined country. It will take decades to make safe.

“I wouldn’t say it was unexpected, but we underestimated it,” Sak said. “We conducted engineering and aerial reconnaissance, but many mines were masked or buried. In addition to those by the front line, there were mines deeper into enemy positions. We passed enemy positions and encountered more mines where we thought there were none anymore.”

A chief drone sergeant in the 47th said that only on foot did they find remote-detonation traps, describing their discovery as a “surprise.”

U.S. military officials believed that Ukraine could have made a more significant advance by embracing greater use of ground reconnaissance units and reducing its reliance on imagery from drones, which weren’t able to detect buried mines, tripwires or booby traps.

The Zaporizhzhia region is largely composed of flat, open fields, and the Russians had chosen what high ground there was to build key defenses. From there, soldiers and officials said, Russian units armed with antitank missiles waited for convoys of Bradley Fighting Vehicles and German Leopard tanks. A mine-clearing vehicle always led the pack — and was targeted first with the help of reconnaissance drones.

“We constantly faced antitank fire and destroyed up to 10 Russian antitank guided missile systems per day,” Sak said. But, he added, “day after day, they pulled in more” of the systems.

Some 60 percent of Ukraine’s de-mining equipment was damaged or destroyed in the first days, according to a senior Ukrainian defense official. “Our partners’ reliance on armored maneuver and a breakthrough didn’t work,” the official said. “We had to change tactics.”

Within a week of the start of the counteroffensive, teams of sappers would work in twilight hours, when it was light enough for them to de-mine by hand but not so bright that the Russians could spot them. Once they cleared a small pathway, infantry would follow — a slow, grueling advance one wood line at a time.

Often, when Ukrainian soldiers reached a Russian outpost, they would find that it too had been booby-trapped with mines. And rather than withdraw, Russian forces held their positions even under heavy artillery bombardment, meaning the Ukrainians would have to engage in close combat with small arms to advance.

Throughout the Zaporizhzhia region, the Russians had deployed new units, called “Storm Z,” with fighters recruited from prisons. The former inmates attacked in human waves called “meat assaults” and were used to preserve more-elite forces. Around Robotyne — the village the 47th was supposed to reach on the first day of the counteroffensive — they were mixed in with Russia’s 810th Guards Naval Infantry Brigade and other regular army formations.

“Robotyne was one of the toughest assignments,” a member of the 810th engineering unit said in an interview with a pro-war Russian blogger. “We had to go all out to prevent the enemy from breaking through. As sappers and engineers, we had to mine all approaches both for infantry and their vehicles.

“The famous Leopards are burning, and we tried to make sure they burn bright.”

Fleets of drones
Early in the assault on Robotyne, a Russian machine-gun nest carved into a building was preventing Ukrainian infantry from advancing. A drone company within the 47th sent up two modified racing drones strapped with explosives. One glided through a window and exploded. Another, guided by a pilot with the call sign Sapsan, spiraled into another room and detonated the ammunition inside, he said, also killing several enemy soldiers.

It was an early high point in the use of small drones like pinpoint artillery. Drone operators — wearing a headset that receives a video feed from the drone in real time — hunted for armored vehicles using first-person-view drones, known as FPVs. FPVs are so precise and fast that they can target the weak parts of vehicles, such as engine compartments and tracks, operators say.

But Russia is also deploying fleets of the same hand-built attack drones, which cost less than $1000 each and can disable a multimillion-dollar tank. Unlike artillery ammunition, which is a precious resource for both Russia and Ukraine, the low-cost, disposable FPV drones can be used to hit small groups of infantry — navigated directly into trenches or into troops on the move.

Evacuating the wounded or bringing fresh supplies to a front-line position also became harrowing and potentially deadly tasks, often saved for nighttime because of the threat of drones.

“At first, our problem was mines. Now, it’s FPV drones,” said Sentsov, the platoon commander in the 47th. “They hit the target precisely and deal serious damage. They can disable a Bradley and potentially even blow it up. It’s not a direct explosion, but they can hit it in a way to make it burn — not only stop the vehicle but destroy it.”

U.S. military officials, drawing on their own doctrine, called for artillery to be used to suppress the enemy while mechanized ground forces advanced toward their objective.

“You’ve got to move while you’re firing the artillery,” a senior U.S. defense official said. “That sounds very fundamental, and it is, but that’s how you’ve got to fight. Otherwise, you can’t sustain the quantity of artillery and munitions that you need.”

But Ukrainian officials have said the ubiquity and lethality of different types of drones on both sides of the front line has been the biggest factor preventing the Ukrainians or the Russians from gaining significant ground for months.

“Because of the technical development, everything came to a standstill,” a high-ranking Ukrainian military official said. “The equipment that appears on the battlefield lives for a minute at the most.”

Chaotic battlefield conditions
The 47th claimed the liberation of Robotyne on Aug. 28. Air assault units in Ukraine’s 10th Corps then moved in, but have been unable to liberate any other villages.

The front line has also grown static along the parallel drive in the south, where Ukrainian marines led the push toward the Azov Sea city of Berdyansk. After retaking the villages of Staromaiorske and Urozhaine in July and August, there have been no further gains, leaving Ukrainian forces far from both Berdyansk and Melitopol.

Throughout the summer, some of the fiercest fighting took place in a few square miles outside the eastern city of Bakhmut, along the third axis of the counteroffensive. Ukrainian war planners saw regaining control of the tiny village of Klishchiivka as key to attaining firing superiority around the southern edges of the city and disrupting Russian supply routes.

In July, police officers belonging to the newly formed Lyut, or “Fury,” Brigade — one of the brigades created last winter ahead of the counteroffensive — were deployed to the area. The brigade, made up of a mix of experienced police officers and recruits, was tasked with storming Russian positions in Klishchiivka, largely using gunfire and grenades.

Video footage of the Lyut Brigade’s operations, which was provided to The Washington Post, and interviews with officers who participated in the fighting reveal the intense and at times chaotic battlefield conditions.

In one bodycam video, from September, soldiers weave in and out of the ruins of homes as heavy shelling booms around them. Moving from one bombed-out house to another, the Ukrainian forces search the wreckage for any remaining Russian troops — screaming out for them to surrender before lobbing grenades into basements.

Days later, on Sept. 17, Ukraine announced that it had retaken Klishchiivka. But its recapture has not moved the lines around Bakhmut in any significant way since.

“Klishchiivka is actually a cemetery of equipment and Russian troops,” said the Lyut Brigade’s commander, police Col. Oleksandr Netrebko. But he also conceded: “Every square meter of liberated land is covered with the blood of our men.”

Frustration builds
With no big breakthrough, U.S. officials became increasingly agitated over the summer that Ukraine was not dedicating enough forces to one of the southern axes, given the American view of its strategic value.

In the north and the east, Gen. Oleksandr Syrsky controlled half of Ukraine’s brigades, which ran from Kharkiv through Bakhmut down to Donetsk. Meanwhile, Gen. Oleksandr Tarnavsky controlled the other half of active brigades, fighting along the two main axes in the south.

U.S. officials viewed the roughly 50-50 split of Ukrainian forces as the wrong mix and wanted more forces shifted to the south. “Of course the enemy is going to try to destroy your mine-clearing vehicles,” the senior U.S. military official said, adding that there were methods to camouflage them, including the use of smoke.

But assessing Kyiv’s approach and urging changes was a delicate task. One officer who did so was Gen. Christopher Cavoli, who as head of the U.S. European Command oversaw much of the Pentagon’s effort to train and equip Ukraine’s army. Milley, by contrast, often struck a more optimistic, motivational tone.

Cavoli, however, couldn’t reach Zaluzhny during part of the summer, a critical phase of the counteroffensive, three people familiar with the matter said. Cavoli declined to comment on the issue. A senior Ukrainian official noted that Zaluzhny spoke to Milley, his direct counterpart, throughout the campaign.

By August, Milley too had begun to air some frustration. He “started saying to Zaluzhny: ‘What are you doing?’” a senior Biden administration official said.

The Ukrainians were insistent that the West simply wasn’t giving them the air power and other weapons needed for a combined arms strategy to succeed. “You want us to to proceed with the counteroffensive, you want us to show the brilliant advances on the front line,” said Olha Stefanishyna, deputy prime minister for European and Euro-Atlantic integration of Ukraine. “But we do not have the fighter jets, meaning that you want us to throw our soldiers, you know, and accept the very fact that we cannot protect them.”

When allies said no, she said, “we heard … ‘We are fine that your soldiers will be dying without support from the sky.’”

In an August video conference, soon followed by an in-person meeting near the Poland-Ukraine border, U.S. military officials pressed their case. They said they understood the logic of preoccupying Russian forces at different points on the front, but argued that deep advances would not come unless the Ukrainians massed more forces at a single point to move quickly and decisively.

Zaluzhny, in response, laid out the challenges in stark terms: no air cover, more mines than expected, and a Russian force that was impressively dug in and moving its reserves around effectively to plug gaps.

“I would not characterize that meeting as a ‘come to Jesus’ meeting and some massive drama — go left, go right,” Milley said in an interview. “I wouldn’t say that. I would say this is the normal course of business where professional leaders … routinely meet to assess the situation and adjustments going on, on the ground.”

In July, as Ukraine ran low on artillery shells and the counteroffensive faltered, the Biden administration shifted position on providing Ukraine with artillery cluster munitions, with the president overruling State Department concerns that the reputational risks were too high given the weapon’s history of killing or wounding civilians. The final key decision on weapons transfers came in September, when the administration agreed to provide a variant of the Army Tactical Missile System, known as ATACMS. The missiles were not the deep-strike variant Kyiv had requested, with the United States instead opting for a shorter-range weapon that drops cluster submunitions.

The moral dilemma of sending cluster munitions to Ukraine

While useful, Ukrainian officials said, neither the ATACMS launchers nor the cluster weapons have broken the battlefield deadlock.

Nor have other strategies. Throughout the counteroffensive, Ukraine has continued striking far behind enemy lines in an effort to weaken Russian forces and sow panic within Russian society. Kyiv isn’t permitted to use Western weapons for strikes on Russia, so a fleet of homegrown drones have been used instead. Some have been able to reach targets in Moscow, while others have damaged Russian oil depots along the Black Sea. Naval drones have also successfully hit ships in Russia’s Black Sea Fleet.

Ukraine has recently gained ground in the southern Kherson region, establishing troop positions on the eastern bank of the Dneiper River, but it’s unclear how much weaponry — artillery especially — has been moved across the river to threaten Russian supply lines stemming from Crimea.

Ukraine has stopped asking for more tanks and fighting vehicles, despite intensely lobbying for them throughout the first year of the war.

“A lot of the weapons,” a high-ranking Ukrainian military official said, “they were relevant last year.”

Frozen lines
In late September, in a meeting with NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky was asked why his military continued to commit so many forces to the east rather than the south. Zelensky said that if the Russians lost the east, they would lose the war, according to a person familiar with the conversation.

Zelensky acknowledged differing views among some of his commanders, the person said. But most senior Ukrainian military officials continued to believe that throwing more troops at one part of the front would not force a breakthrough.

Then in mid-October, the Russians tried just that in a fierce assault on the eastern Ukrainian town of Avdiivka, which sits in a geographically strategic pocket close to the Russian-occupied city of Donetsk. Now it was the Russians on the offensive, with four brigades moving in columns of tanks and personnel carriers, and descending on one narrow strip of the front.

Engineering vehicles with mine sweepers led the charge. It was exactly how the Ukrainians had started their counteroffensive. And similarly, the Russians suffered severe losses — Ukrainian officials claimed that more than 4,000 Russian troops were killed in the first three weeks of the assault — before switching to a dismounted approach, just as the Ukrainians had done.

In early October, the 47th Brigade, after a brief respite from the fighting, was rotated back into the counteroffensive. Zelensky had publicly vowed that Ukraine would continue its push through the winter, when the weather would make any advances even more difficult.

By the end of October, however, the troops of the 47th were suddenly moved east, to defend the northern flank of Avdiivka. The brigade’s Western weapons — German Leopard tanks and American Bradley Fighting Vehicles — went with them.

The relocation to Avdiivka was a surprise for the brigade, but it was also a signal that the operation in Zaporizhzhia was frozen along largely fixed lines. And behind their lines, the Russians had continued to build defensive fortifications over the summer and fall, according to satellite imagery. Around the village of Romanivske, southeast of Robotyne, antitank ditches and concrete pyramids were installed three-deep to blunt any further Ukrainian attempts to advance.

On Nov. 1, in an interview with the Economist, Zaluzhny acknowledged what had been previously unutterable — the war had reached “a stalemate.”

“There will most likely, he said, “be no deep and beautiful breakthrough.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/04/ukraine-counteroffensive-stalled-russia-war-defenses/

Reply Quote

Date: 9/12/2023 21:56:53
From: Kingy
ID: 2101556
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Governor of Russian Voronezh region has confirmed the death of Russian Major General Vladimir Zavadsky in the war.

Some Russian media reported that Zavadsky decided to go for a ride in a vehicle seized from the AFU. Due to that, he came under mortar fire from Russian troops. He panicked and drove into a Russian minefield, trying to get away from the fire. The vehicle then exploded on a mine.

Reply Quote

Date: 9/12/2023 21:59:57
From: party_pants
ID: 2101558
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


Governor of Russian Voronezh region has confirmed the death of Russian Major General Vladimir Zavadsky in the war.

Some Russian media reported that Zavadsky decided to go for a ride in a vehicle seized from the AFU. Due to that, he came under mortar fire from Russian troops. He panicked and drove into a Russian minefield, trying to get away from the fire. The vehicle then exploded on a mine.


what’s AFU again?

Reply Quote

Date: 9/12/2023 22:02:55
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 2101561
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


Kingy said:

Governor of Russian Voronezh region has confirmed the death of Russian Major General Vladimir Zavadsky in the war.

Some Russian media reported that Zavadsky decided to go for a ride in a vehicle seized from the AFU. Due to that, he came under mortar fire from Russian troops. He panicked and drove into a Russian minefield, trying to get away from the fire. The vehicle then exploded on a mine.


what’s AFU again?

armed forces Ukraine

Reply Quote

Date: 9/12/2023 22:04:51
From: party_pants
ID: 2101564
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bogsnorkler said:


party_pants said:

Kingy said:

Governor of Russian Voronezh region has confirmed the death of Russian Major General Vladimir Zavadsky in the war.

Some Russian media reported that Zavadsky decided to go for a ride in a vehicle seized from the AFU. Due to that, he came under mortar fire from Russian troops. He panicked and drove into a Russian minefield, trying to get away from the fire. The vehicle then exploded on a mine.


what’s AFU again?

armed forces Ukraine

slaps forehead

Reply Quote

Date: 9/12/2023 22:23:33
From: Kingy
ID: 2101565
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

putin has announced that he is running for president in the 2024 election.

One website has already leaked the results, and a civil servant that claimed that putin was a criminal and a mafia gangster has been arrested for leaking state secrets.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 06:23:51
From: roughbarked
ID: 2101580
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


Governor of Russian Voronezh region has confirmed the death of Russian Major General Vladimir Zavadsky in the war.

Some Russian media reported that Zavadsky decided to go for a ride in a vehicle seized from the AFU. Due to that, he came under mortar fire from Russian troops. He panicked and drove into a Russian minefield, trying to get away from the fire. The vehicle then exploded on a mine.


He died in a blaze of glory for his country.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 15:21:33
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 2101777
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


Governor of Russian Voronezh region has confirmed the death of Russian Major General Vladimir Zavadsky in the war.

Some Russian media reported that Zavadsky decided to go for a ride in a vehicle seized from the AFU. Due to that, he came under mortar fire from Russian troops. He panicked and drove into a Russian minefield, trying to get away from the fire. The vehicle then exploded on a mine.


So,not a very bright Major General.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 15:26:47
From: party_pants
ID: 2101778
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Tau.Neutrino said:


Kingy said:

Governor of Russian Voronezh region has confirmed the death of Russian Major General Vladimir Zavadsky in the war.

Some Russian media reported that Zavadsky decided to go for a ride in a vehicle seized from the AFU. Due to that, he came under mortar fire from Russian troops. He panicked and drove into a Russian minefield, trying to get away from the fire. The vehicle then exploded on a mine.


So,not a very bright Major General.

Most definitely not the very model of a modern major-general.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 15:30:55
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 2101781
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Kingy said:

Governor of Russian Voronezh region has confirmed the death of Russian Major General Vladimir Zavadsky in the war.

Some Russian media reported that Zavadsky decided to go for a ride in a vehicle seized from the AFU. Due to that, he came under mortar fire from Russian troops. He panicked and drove into a Russian minefield, trying to get away from the fire. The vehicle then exploded on a mine.


So,not a very bright Major General.

Most definitely not the very model of a modern major-general.

I am the very model of a modern Major-General
I’ve information vegetable, animal, and mineral
I know the kings of England, and I quote the fights
Historical
From Marathon to Waterloo, in order categorical
I’m very well acquainted, too, with matters
Mathematical
I understand equations, both the simple and quadratical
About binomial theorem I’m teeming with a lot o’ news
With many cheerful facts about the square of the
Hypotenuse

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 15:32:42
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 2101784
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Tau.Neutrino said:


Kingy said:

Governor of Russian Voronezh region has confirmed the death of Russian Major General Vladimir Zavadsky in the war.

Some Russian media reported that Zavadsky decided to go for a ride in a vehicle seized from the AFU. Due to that, he came under mortar fire from Russian troops. He panicked and drove into a Russian minefield, trying to get away from the fire. The vehicle then exploded on a mine.


So,not a very bright Major General.

He really should have read some field notes…

How to drive a captured enemy vehicle and draw fire from your own troops.

How to drive a captured enemy vehicle into your own mine field and blow yourself up.

Leave your troops to boast that they blew up an enemy vehicle with someone pretending to be a Russian Major General.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 15:45:51
From: Kingy
ID: 2101790
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Tau.Neutrino said:


Kingy said:

Governor of Russian Voronezh region has confirmed the death of Russian Major General Vladimir Zavadsky in the war.

Some Russian media reported that Zavadsky decided to go for a ride in a vehicle seized from the AFU. Due to that, he came under mortar fire from Russian troops. He panicked and drove into a Russian minefield, trying to get away from the fire. The vehicle then exploded on a mine.


So,not a very bright Major General.

He was VERY bright.

Very briefly. 🧨🎇💥

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 15:55:03
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 2101792
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Kingy said:

Governor of Russian Voronezh region has confirmed the death of Russian Major General Vladimir Zavadsky in the war.

Some Russian media reported that Zavadsky decided to go for a ride in a vehicle seized from the AFU. Due to that, he came under mortar fire from Russian troops. He panicked and drove into a Russian minefield, trying to get away from the fire. The vehicle then exploded on a mine.


So,not a very bright Major General.

He was VERY bright.

Very briefly. 🧨🎇💥

LOL.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 15:58:49
From: buffy
ID: 2101796
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Peak Warming Man said:


party_pants said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

So,not a very bright Major General.

Most definitely not the very model of a modern major-general.

I am the very model of a modern Major-General
I’ve information vegetable, animal, and mineral
I know the kings of England, and I quote the fights
Historical
From Marathon to Waterloo, in order categorical
I’m very well acquainted, too, with matters
Mathematical
I understand equations, both the simple and quadratical
About binomial theorem I’m teeming with a lot o’ news
With many cheerful facts about the square of the
Hypotenuse

And..of course I sang that in my head…

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 16:23:23
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 2101810
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

buffy said:


Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

Most definitely not the very model of a modern major-general.

I am the very model of a modern Major-General
I’ve information vegetable, animal, and mineral
I know the kings of England, and I quote the fights
Historical
From Marathon to Waterloo, in order categorical
I’m very well acquainted, too, with matters
Mathematical
I understand equations, both the simple and quadratical
About binomial theorem I’m teeming with a lot o’ news
With many cheerful facts about the square of the
Hypotenuse

And..of course I sang that in my head…

… whilst I sang:

A VERY STABLE GENIUS
As sung on YouTube by Randy Rainbow
(Tune: “I am the very model of a modern Major-General”)

1. He is the very model of a very stable genius.
Of all the US presidents he is the Mussoliniest.
He learned a lot of things according to his Wikipedia
And demonstrates his ample intellect on social media.
When people are in need he is the best at making fun of them.
He knows eleven words although he can’t spell even one of them—
An overly flamboyant, orange, autocratic scuzzy man
Who’s undermining everything Obama did because he can. He’s undermining everything Obama did because he can. He’s undermining everything Obama did because he can. He’s overly flamboyant and an autocratic scuzzy orange man.
He’s firmly resolute, but how he thinks and feels and talks depends
On any of the crap he may have heard that day on Fox & Friends,
And though his brain is smaller than his tiny little pen-i-us,
He is the very model of a very stable genius. Although his brain is smaller than his tiny little pen-i-us, He is the very model of a very stable genius.

2. He’s very good at pushing all the bullshit that he’s peddling,
But won’t concern himself with matters such as Russian meddling.
His campaign manager’s in jail on charges that are felony,
And no one really cares about him less than his wife Melanie. (sorry… Mel-AY-nie)
He’s really great with children when it comes to immigra-ti-on.
He thinks he’s making progress with denucleariza-ti-on.
He’s only hated from Seattle to the Carolin-i-as,
And likes to greet his lady friends by grabbing their vagin-i-as. He likes to greet his lady friends by grabbing their vagin-i-as. He likes to greet his lady friends by grabbing their vagin-i-as. He likes to greet his lady friends by grabbing their va-gi-gi-gin-i-as. (Queen Elizabeth did not see that coming.)
He’s certainly proficient at hijacking an elec-ti-on.
At NATO he is not afraid of not taking direc-ti-on.
Aside from all his ignorance, the chaos and subpoen-i-as,
He is the very model of a very stable genius. Aside from all his ignorance, the chaos and subpoen-i-as, He is the very model of a very stable genius.

3. He’s always been a pro at things like violating protocols
And reproducing other egotistical neanderthals.
To all our greatest allies he decides to say “Get outta here”
While doing all he can to satisfy his daddy Vladimir.
There’s no one as accomplished in the art of the distrac-ti-on.
Of anything that factual he orders a retrac-ti-on.
When greeting foreign leaders, he prefers the pomp and circumstance,
Then vomits verbal diarrhea to satisfy his sycophants.
There never was a military draft he couldn’t dodge, and he
Is excellent at advocating racists and misogyny.
He likes to make up stories with convenient exclu-si-on
Of topics that he finds make him feel threatened, like collu-si-on.
He expertly persuades his base that Mueller’s hunting for a witch
Instead of their own president, who’s obviously Putin’s bitch.
He calls reporters fake and says the Democrats are sour grapes,
Then lies awake at night and thinks about those Russian pee-pee tapes. He lies awake at night and thinks about those Russian pee-pee tapes. He lies awake at night and thinks about those Russian pee-pee tapes. He lies awake at night and thinks about those Russian creepy pee-pee tapes.
Oh, never has there been a stable genius as smart as he,
And if you don’t believe me you can just ask Sarah Huckabee,
And though his brain is smaller than his tiny little pen-i-us,
He is the very model of a very stable genius. Although his brain is smaller than his tiny little pen-i-us, He is the very model of a very stable genius.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 16:25:42
From: buffy
ID: 2101813
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

The Rev Dodgson said:


buffy said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I am the very model of a modern Major-General
I’ve information vegetable, animal, and mineral
I know the kings of England, and I quote the fights
Historical
From Marathon to Waterloo, in order categorical
I’m very well acquainted, too, with matters
Mathematical
I understand equations, both the simple and quadratical
About binomial theorem I’m teeming with a lot o’ news
With many cheerful facts about the square of the
Hypotenuse

And..of course I sang that in my head…

… whilst I sang:

A VERY STABLE GENIUS
As sung on YouTube by Randy Rainbow
(Tune: “I am the very model of a modern Major-General”)

1. He is the very model of a very stable genius.
Of all the US presidents he is the Mussoliniest.
He learned a lot of things according to his Wikipedia
And demonstrates his ample intellect on social media.
When people are in need he is the best at making fun of them.
He knows eleven words although he can’t spell even one of them—
An overly flamboyant, orange, autocratic scuzzy man
Who’s undermining everything Obama did because he can. He’s undermining everything Obama did because he can. He’s undermining everything Obama did because he can. He’s overly flamboyant and an autocratic scuzzy orange man.
He’s firmly resolute, but how he thinks and feels and talks depends
On any of the crap he may have heard that day on Fox & Friends,
And though his brain is smaller than his tiny little pen-i-us,
He is the very model of a very stable genius. Although his brain is smaller than his tiny little pen-i-us, He is the very model of a very stable genius.

2. He’s very good at pushing all the bullshit that he’s peddling,
But won’t concern himself with matters such as Russian meddling.
His campaign manager’s in jail on charges that are felony,
And no one really cares about him less than his wife Melanie. (sorry… Mel-AY-nie)
He’s really great with children when it comes to immigra-ti-on.
He thinks he’s making progress with denucleariza-ti-on.
He’s only hated from Seattle to the Carolin-i-as,
And likes to greet his lady friends by grabbing their vagin-i-as. He likes to greet his lady friends by grabbing their vagin-i-as. He likes to greet his lady friends by grabbing their vagin-i-as. He likes to greet his lady friends by grabbing their va-gi-gi-gin-i-as. (Queen Elizabeth did not see that coming.)
He’s certainly proficient at hijacking an elec-ti-on.
At NATO he is not afraid of not taking direc-ti-on.
Aside from all his ignorance, the chaos and subpoen-i-as,
He is the very model of a very stable genius. Aside from all his ignorance, the chaos and subpoen-i-as, He is the very model of a very stable genius.

3. He’s always been a pro at things like violating protocols
And reproducing other egotistical neanderthals.
To all our greatest allies he decides to say “Get outta here”
While doing all he can to satisfy his daddy Vladimir.
There’s no one as accomplished in the art of the distrac-ti-on.
Of anything that factual he orders a retrac-ti-on.
When greeting foreign leaders, he prefers the pomp and circumstance,
Then vomits verbal diarrhea to satisfy his sycophants.
There never was a military draft he couldn’t dodge, and he
Is excellent at advocating racists and misogyny.
He likes to make up stories with convenient exclu-si-on
Of topics that he finds make him feel threatened, like collu-si-on.
He expertly persuades his base that Mueller’s hunting for a witch
Instead of their own president, who’s obviously Putin’s bitch.
He calls reporters fake and says the Democrats are sour grapes,
Then lies awake at night and thinks about those Russian pee-pee tapes. He lies awake at night and thinks about those Russian pee-pee tapes. He lies awake at night and thinks about those Russian pee-pee tapes. He lies awake at night and thinks about those Russian creepy pee-pee tapes.
Oh, never has there been a stable genius as smart as he,
And if you don’t believe me you can just ask Sarah Huckabee,
And though his brain is smaller than his tiny little pen-i-us,
He is the very model of a very stable genius. Although his brain is smaller than his tiny little pen-i-us, He is the very model of a very stable genius.

Oh no, I’m not starting on that one. It’s brilliant.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 16:27:01
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2101814
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

The Rev Dodgson said:


buffy said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I am the very model of a modern Major-General
I’ve information vegetable, animal, and mineral
I know the kings of England, and I quote the fights
Historical
From Marathon to Waterloo, in order categorical
I’m very well acquainted, too, with matters
Mathematical
I understand equations, both the simple and quadratical
About binomial theorem I’m teeming with a lot o’ news
With many cheerful facts about the square of the
Hypotenuse

And..of course I sang that in my head…

… whilst I sang:

A VERY STABLE GENIUS
As sung on YouTube by Randy Rainbow
(Tune: “I am the very model of a modern Major-General”)

1. He is the very model of a very stable genius.
Of all the US presidents he is the Mussoliniest.
He learned a lot of things according to his Wikipedia
And demonstrates his ample intellect on social media.
When people are in need he is the best at making fun of them.
He knows eleven words although he can’t spell even one of them—
An overly flamboyant, orange, autocratic scuzzy man
Who’s undermining everything Obama did because he can. He’s undermining everything Obama did because he can. He’s undermining everything Obama did because he can. He’s overly flamboyant and an autocratic scuzzy orange man.
He’s firmly resolute, but how he thinks and feels and talks depends
On any of the crap he may have heard that day on Fox & Friends,
And though his brain is smaller than his tiny little pen-i-us,
He is the very model of a very stable genius. Although his brain is smaller than his tiny little pen-i-us, He is the very model of a very stable genius.

2. He’s very good at pushing all the bullshit that he’s peddling,
But won’t concern himself with matters such as Russian meddling.
His campaign manager’s in jail on charges that are felony,
And no one really cares about him less than his wife Melanie. (sorry… Mel-AY-nie)
He’s really great with children when it comes to immigra-ti-on.
He thinks he’s making progress with denucleariza-ti-on.
He’s only hated from Seattle to the Carolin-i-as,
And likes to greet his lady friends by grabbing their vagin-i-as. He likes to greet his lady friends by grabbing their vagin-i-as. He likes to greet his lady friends by grabbing their vagin-i-as. He likes to greet his lady friends by grabbing their va-gi-gi-gin-i-as. (Queen Elizabeth did not see that coming.)
He’s certainly proficient at hijacking an elec-ti-on.
At NATO he is not afraid of not taking direc-ti-on.
Aside from all his ignorance, the chaos and subpoen-i-as,
He is the very model of a very stable genius. Aside from all his ignorance, the chaos and subpoen-i-as, He is the very model of a very stable genius.

3. He’s always been a pro at things like violating protocols
And reproducing other egotistical neanderthals.
To all our greatest allies he decides to say “Get outta here”
While doing all he can to satisfy his daddy Vladimir.
There’s no one as accomplished in the art of the distrac-ti-on.
Of anything that factual he orders a retrac-ti-on.
When greeting foreign leaders, he prefers the pomp and circumstance,
Then vomits verbal diarrhea to satisfy his sycophants.
There never was a military draft he couldn’t dodge, and he
Is excellent at advocating racists and misogyny.
He likes to make up stories with convenient exclu-si-on
Of topics that he finds make him feel threatened, like collu-si-on.
He expertly persuades his base that Mueller’s hunting for a witch
Instead of their own president, who’s obviously Putin’s bitch.
He calls reporters fake and says the Democrats are sour grapes,
Then lies awake at night and thinks about those Russian pee-pee tapes. He lies awake at night and thinks about those Russian pee-pee tapes. He lies awake at night and thinks about those Russian pee-pee tapes. He lies awake at night and thinks about those Russian creepy pee-pee tapes.
Oh, never has there been a stable genius as smart as he,
And if you don’t believe me you can just ask Sarah Huckabee,
And though his brain is smaller than his tiny little pen-i-us,
He is the very model of a very stable genius. Although his brain is smaller than his tiny little pen-i-us, He is the very model of a very stable genius.


No mention of the border where tonnes of drugs and thousands of criminals and terrorists come flooding in aka “the dreamers” ?

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 16:27:13
From: OCDC
ID: 2101815
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

IFL Mr R Rainbow

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 16:30:02
From: sarahs mum
ID: 2101816
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

OCDC said:


IFL Mr R Rainbow

^

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 16:30:34
From: buffy
ID: 2101817
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

OCDC said:


IFL Mr R Rainbow

We do here too. I hope he is up to another complete election campaign.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 16:31:50
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2101818
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

In mid-August 2020, critics of Randy Rainbow circulated several dozen of his tweets, all but a few published between 2010 and 2012, featuring jokes widely described as racist and transphobic. Rainbow apologized on August 20, 2020, in an interview with The Advocate.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 16:36:54
From: dv
ID: 2101820
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

OCDC said:


IFL Mr R Rainbow

Yes

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 16:40:26
From: kii
ID: 2101822
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:

No mention of the border where tonnes of drugs and thousands of criminals and terrorists come flooding in aka “the dreamers” ?

Not correct. Dreamers are people who were brought to the US by their parents when they were kids.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 16:45:06
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2101823
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

kii said:


wookiemeister said:

No mention of the border where tonnes of drugs and thousands of criminals and terrorists come flooding in aka “the dreamers” ?

Not correct. Dreamers are people who were brought to the US by their parents when they were kids.

Not in Wookieworld. In that particular crapfest most fentanyl doesn’t come into the US in the cars of citizens either. I know if I was attempting to claim asylum in the US I would make sure to be burdened with $200 worth of narcotics as I crossed the border.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 16:52:03
From: roughbarked
ID: 2101830
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

buffy said:


OCDC said:

IFL Mr R Rainbow

We do here too. I hope he is up to another complete election campaign.

I’d assume he’ll be at this election in full force. :)

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 16:52:38
From: roughbarked
ID: 2101831
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

kii said:


wookiemeister said:

No mention of the border where tonnes of drugs and thousands of criminals and terrorists come flooding in aka “the dreamers” ?

Not correct. Dreamers are people who were brought to the US by their parents when they were kids.

Wookie’s often incorrect.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 17:15:29
From: party_pants
ID: 2101835
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Max Gillies impersonating Rob Menzies to the same tune (on the topic of British nuclear testing in Australia).

I was the very model of a Commonwealth Prime Minister
I never had a single thought original or sinister
I woke up the militia and I sanctioned their explos-i-on
I never thought a little bang would cause a big commot-i-on
but when it did I had to send a very any telegram
but it probably didn’t matter ‘cause they don’t know who the hell I am.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 18:38:41
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2101882
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:


kii said:

wookiemeister said:

No mention of the border where tonnes of drugs and thousands of criminals and terrorists come flooding in aka “the dreamers” ?

Not correct. Dreamers are people who were brought to the US by their parents when they were kids.

Wookie’s often incorrect.


Has it occurred to you that they are lying to you ?

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 18:42:08
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2101886
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


roughbarked said:

kii said:

Not correct. Dreamers are people who were brought to the US by their parents when they were kids.

Wookie’s often incorrect.


Has it occurred to you that they are lying to you ?

Also

Consider this

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Politics_of_Heroin_in_Southeast_Asia

The american intelligence agencies may well be bringing drugs into America to pay for the ukraine war.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 18:44:30
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2101887
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

Wookie’s often incorrect.


Has it occurred to you that they are lying to you ?

Also

Consider this

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Politics_of_Heroin_in_Southeast_Asia

The american intelligence agencies may well be bringing drugs into America to pay for the ukraine war.


https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/11/health/us-overdose-deaths-continue-to-rise-nchs-data/index.html

More money needed

More drugs needed to be shipped into America

More drug deaths because there’s more drugs available

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 18:44:53
From: roughbarked
ID: 2101888
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


roughbarked said:

kii said:

Not correct. Dreamers are people who were brought to the US by their parents when they were kids.

Wookie’s often incorrect.


Has it occurred to you that they are lying to you ?

They?

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 18:48:52
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2101889
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


wookiemeister said:

wookiemeister said:

Has it occurred to you that they are lying to you ?


Also

Consider this

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Politics_of_Heroin_in_Southeast_Asia

The american intelligence agencies may well be bringing drugs into America to pay for the ukraine war.


https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/11/health/us-overdose-deaths-continue-to-rise-nchs-data/index.html

More money needed

More drugs needed to be shipped into America

More drug deaths because there’s more drugs available


The bounce in increases in deaths is probably due to as a massive die off occurs , there’s not as many people hooked to larger doses leaving them susceptible to OD

George Floyd was already dead by the time the cops rolled up, whilst standing he was telling them he couldn’t breath.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 18:52:03
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2101890
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

The only way to control inflation in America now is to inject more drugs into their economy. Easy untaxed black money goes into a CIA account and artillery shells and assassination squads come out the other end. With more junkies dying the welfare needed to prop them up is reduced and sent to make artillery shells.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 18:57:38
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2101892
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

By the time the ukraine war ends America will have an apocalyptic drug problem

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 19:09:34
From: Kingy
ID: 2101894
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


The only way to control inflation in America now is to inject more drugs into their economy. Easy untaxed black money goes into a CIA account and artillery shells and assassination squads come out the other end. With more junkies dying the welfare needed to prop them up is reduced and sent to make artillery shells.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/12/2023 19:22:49
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2101905
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


wookiemeister said:

The only way to control inflation in America now is to inject more drugs into their economy. Easy untaxed black money goes into a CIA account and artillery shells and assassination squads come out the other end. With more junkies dying the welfare needed to prop them up is reduced and sent to make artillery shells.



Air America was used to bring heroin into America

The money from selling drugs was used to prop up the Vietnam war.

They’ve done it before, they will do it again

Reply Quote

Date: 11/12/2023 06:14:07
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2102006
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

How Putin is reshaping Russia to keep his war-machine running
He is creating a class of wealthy bureaucrats, who are the war’s biggest supporters

Nov 30th 2023

War and sanctions notwithstanding, in early November, the renovated Soviet-era “Exhibition of Achievements of the National Economy” re-opened in Moscow. The original, inaugurated in 1939 just weeks before Germany and Russia invaded Poland, papered over the famine and terror of the preceding years. Instead, displays extolled the wonders of Soviet science and the virtues of collectivisation; a special ice-cream hall doled out treats to the masses and a 25-metre statue of Stalin gazed down munificently. Millions died in the dictator’s “great break” with the past, and Russia’s economy and society were completely reshaped, but it was all depicted as unadulterated progress.

It is a similar story with today’s refurbishment, where a futuristic screen-lined tunnel regales visitors with the glories of the past 20 years, under the leadership of Vladimir Putin. A pavilion celebrating Russia’s regions features Donetsk, Kherson, Luhansk and Zaporizhia, four provinces the Russian army is currently attempting to seize from Ukraine. The only hint of the continuing bloodshed is a flower composed of bits of shrapnel. The initiation of the biggest war in Europe since 1945, the re-imposition of a police state within Russia and the categorical reversal of the reforming and Westernising trends of the early post-Soviet period are nowhere to be seen.

It is an especially far cry from the shock and confusion of the early days of the war, when the rouble plunged, hundreds of thousands fled the country and protests rocked Russia’s cities. Mr Putin has since succeeded in stabilising the economy, thanks to the high price of oil, and in squelching dissent, thanks to fierce repression. That has allowed him to retain the allegiance of the elite, who in turn are helping the country adapt. The new equilibrium is unstable, however, with the economy and military recruitment, in particular, threatening further upheaval.

Unsheepish sheep
On the face of things, most Russians have meekly accepted the war in Ukraine, which will soon be two years old. Two-thirds tell Russian Field, a pollster, that the country is moving in the right direction and over half say the war in Ukraine is going well. “I knew that society is totally conformist, but I still didn’t expect that incredible measure of psychological adaptation. People have just shut themselves off and tried to live their usual old lives,” Nalalya Zubarevich, an academic, said in a recent interview.

Open protest is rare, for obvious reasons. On November 16th Alexandra Skochilenko, an artist and activist, was jailed for seven years for replacing price tags in a St Petersburg supermarket with anti-war messages. (“My great-grandfather did not fight in ww2 so that Russia could become a fascist state and attack Ukraine,” read one.) It is not just peaceniks who are persecuted: at least one ultra-nationalist dissenter, Igor Girkin, a retired soldier and blogger, has been jailed for complaining that Mr Putin is not fighting forcefully enough.

But just because the majority of Russians have accepted the war does not mean that they are enthusiastic about it. A hastily concocted propaganda film about dastardly Ukrainian “fascists”, which cost $2m to make, was a spectacular flop, collecting just $150,000 at the box office. Despite their professed support for the war, the respondents to Russian Field’s polls are firmly against a further round of mobilisation, even if Mr Putin himself calls for it. In October, for the first time during the war, a majority of respondents expressed support for peace talks over continued fighting (see chart 1). Fully 74% say they would be happy for Mr Putin to sign a peace deal right away.

Perhaps unsurprisingly, the younger people are, and the more they get their news from social media rather than state-run television, the more sceptical about the war they are. More strikingly, however, the richer and more educated people are, the more supportive they are (see chart 2). As an anonymous Russian academic explains in a recent article in Meduza, an online publication, there is a big class of bureaucrats and businessmen who have attained their status through patronage and who will uphold the regime to protect it. “They number millions and they have fitted into the moral economy of military aggression,” the academic writes.

In part, such people are kept in line by fear, like everyone else. In the first months of the war a spate of mysterious deaths of businessmen and managers at state-owned firms helped to instil fealty. The chairman of the board of Lukoil, Russia’s biggest private oil firm, fell to his death from a hospital window in Moscow a few months after the board issued a statement calling for a ceasefire. Western sanctions against oligarchs have helped keep the monied class on board, too.

Look away
But civil servants and businessmen also have long experience of suppressing scruples and working the system. Many have transitioned smoothly from the Soviet bureaucracy. “They are driven not by ideology, but by loyalty to their corporation, be it the central bank or finance ministry,” says Mikhail Komin, who has been surveying Russian technocrats. They see the task of keeping the ship of state afloat as a professional challenge, not a moral quandary.

Maksut Shadaev, the 44-year-old minister for digital transformation, is a good example. He worked at private it firms in the 1990s, before joining the government to help build a sleek, user-friendly web portal and mobile app that allows citizens to access such public services as making a doctor’s appointment and enrolling children in school. He is now using those same skills to build a system dubbed the “digital gulag”—a comprehensive register to help track men eligible for the draft.

By the same token, Russian businesses have helped stabilise the economy not out of any affection for the state, but because they excel at coping with big, unexpected and often arbitrary shifts in their circumstances. Andrei Yakovlev of Harvard University, who has conducted a survey of Russian entrepreneurs, says that having lived through several financial crises and done constant battle with predatory bureaucrats, they put a premium on preparing for the worst. The disappearance of Western imports and the closure of Western firms, meanwhile, has opened new niches for Russian companies. At the same time, the capital controls imposed by the central bank have left them with few options but to invest in Russia. The government has offered loans and even ordered bureaucrats not to harass them.

It helps, of course, that vast quantities of petrodollars have been sloshing around the economy. In the first year of the war Russia earned $590bn in export revenues—most of it from oil and gas. According to calculations by Re: Russia, a network of experts, that is $160bn more than the annual average over the prior decade. In the second year, revenues should still be some $60bn above the average. Re: Russia believes that the war costs at least $100bn a year—so the extra income from oil covers most of the expense of waging it.

The government’s budget increased by 26% last year and will rise by another 16% next year. Defence spending will almost double next year, to 6% of gdp—the highest it has been since the collapse of the Soviet Union. It now accounts for a third of all government expenditure. Spending on health and education, meanwhile, is falling in real terms. As Anton Siluanov, the finance minister, recently declared, “The main emphasis is on ensuring our victory. The army, defence capability, armed forces, fighters—everything needed for the front, everything needed for victory is in the budget.”

Such lavish outlays will not be sustainable indefinitely. The central bank is struggling to restrain rising inflation, which reached 12% year on year in the third quarter of this year. It has raised interest rates to 15%. The authorities, meanwhile, are forcing exporters to convert their revenues to roubles to stave off further devaluation, which would exacerbate inflation. Some 43% of Russians expect their economic situation to worsen in the next year or two, while only 21% expect it to improve, according to Russian Field.

For the moment, however, there is a bonanza, especially in certain parts of the economy and certain segments of Russian society. “Unlike oil, guns drive industrial growth,” argue Alexandra Prokopenko and Pavel Luzin at the Carnegie Russia Eurasia Centre, a think-tank. Construction, consumption and services are growing in regions close to the war zone or with lots of munitions factories. In the far east there is heavy investment in infrastructure to expand trade with Asia, since ties to Europe have withered.

Moscow and St Petersburg do not benefit much from the new order, but depressed industrial regions—Mr Putin’s heartland—are living better than they have for years. In Izhevsk, a poor city close to the Ural mountains which produces guns, missiles and equipment for electronic warfare, the average salary has gone up by 25% since the start of the war. An organic supermarket, VkusVill, and a pan-Asian restaurant, Royal Rolls, recently opened. In Rostov-on-Don, the headquarters of the military district encompassing the front, catering businesses are seeing a 77% increase in turnover. “A lot of men with good appetites have arrived there,” says Ms Zubarevich.

Russia’s vast and poor hinterland has also benefited from the cash the authorities are dangling in order to secure more recruits to the army. Those who volunteer are paid around 195,000 roubles a month, four times the newly increased average salary in Izhevsk, and a one-off bonus on enlistment of 195,000 roubles. The families of those killed in battle receive generous payments, too. Vladislav Inozemtsev, a Russian economist at the Polish Institute of Advanced Studies in Warsaw, estimates that the family of a soldier who gets killed after five months’ service would receive about 15m roubles in total, including pay and compensation. It would take an average Russian man 30 years to earn as much. Life expectancy for a Russian man is only 65. Mr Putin’s regime is trying to turn getting killed into an economically rational choice, argues Mr Inozemtsev.

Nonetheless, Russia appears to have a manpower problem. The forced mobilisation announced a year ago—the first since the second world war—caused panic and anger. Enlistment commissions were set ablaze and hundreds of thousands of young men fled the country or hid within Russia. Those who were called up then remain at the front, despite promises that they would serve for only six months. That has spawned a protest movement led by their wives and mothers called Voina Zaebala (Fucked off by the war). “We don’t give birth for our children to be killed,” complains an agitated mother in a video that has circulated widely on social media.

The police are searching energetically not only for draft-dodgers, but also for migrants from Central Asia, whom they seem to be press-ganging into military service. They recently raided warehouses belonging to Wildberries, Russia’s largest online retailer, bringing its service to a halt. There are often raids on student dormitories, too.

Meanwhile the Duma, Russia’s parliament, is preparing for more rounds of mobilisation. The maximum age subject to conscription has been raised from 27 to 30 years. The time former servicemen remain reservists has been extended by five years, to 60 in the case of junior officers. The law has been changed to require employers to turn in their staff for military service. As Andrei Kartopolov, chairman of the Duma’s defence committee, explained, “This law was written for a big war, for a general mobilisation. And you can already smell that big war in the air.”

But a shortage of manpower is not the army’s only problem. Aleksandr Golts, author of “Military Reform and Militarism in Russia”, argues that it is also short of junior officers, training capacity and equipment. The higher military spending is, in all likelihood, wildly inefficient. Russia’s arms industry is notoriously corrupt: kickbacks are estimated by some to double the cost of procurement. It is also starved of skilled labour. Yuri Borisov, the deputy prime minister, says it needs another 400,000 engineers, it specialists and managers.

There is talk of increasing state control over the economy, to abet the war effort. Denis Manturov, the deputy prime minister who oversees military procurement, has said that state planning may have to be reintroduced in the defence industry. “We are talking about economic security in war conditions…Let’s go down the path of nationalisation of the main sectors of our economy,” Alexander Bastrykin, the head of the anti-corruption agency and a university classmate of Mr Putin’s, said recently. Eighteen big companies have been nationalised in 2023, many of them in the name of restoring looted property to the state. The prosecutor-general has reported to Mr Putin that the courts have heard 24,000 cases involving the loss of state property.

State-owned firms are playing an ever bigger and more varied part in Russian life. Gazprom, Russia’s state-owned gas monopoly, for example, owns several media outlets. It has also manned, equipped and funded several military brigades. Rosneft, the state-owned oil giant, builds ships and oversees a research project on the Eurasian variants of the human genome.

The bureaucrats who oversee these sprawling empires are often businessmen in their own right, with overlapping interests. Mr Manturov, for instance, sits on the board of Rostec, a state-owned defence conglomerate. The chairman of Rostec is Sergei Chemezov, a former kgb agent who served with Mr Putin in East Germany. Mr Chemevoz’s and Mr Manturov’s families jointly own ports, hotels, luxury properties and a vineyard, among other investments.

An increasingly common pattern is for the children of Mr Putin’s friends and associates to take prominent roles in industry and government. Dmitry Patrushev, the minister of agriculture, is the son of Nikolai Patrushev, the secretary of the national security council. Ekaterina Tikhonova, Mr Putin’s own daughter, chairs a business lobby group’s committee on import substitution. VKontakte, Russia’s biggest social-media platform, is partly owned by various state-owned companies and jointly run by the son of Mr Putin’s deputy chief-of-staff and by the great nephew of a rich businessman who is said to be one of Mr Putin’s closest confidants and an advocate of the invasion of Ukraine.

Russia’s decision to ban Facebook and Instagram at the start of the war boosted VKontakte’s users by 4m in just a few weeks. It now has a penetration rate of 75%, is assumed to be closely monitored by the security services and is instrumental in spreading pro-war messages. “This is Putin’s dream and an ideal model: everything in one place, run by the children under the supervision of the kgb,” says Kirill Rogov, the founder of Re: Russia.

Hero of a crime
To justify his reconstruction of the Russian economy and to explain away his lack of military successes, Mr Putin is reframing the war as one not with Ukraine, but with the West, in which Ukraine is simply “a battering ram” used to pummel Russia. New history textbooks explain to pupils that Russia has always been and will always be in a state of war with the West. This narrative allows Mr Putin to depict everyday activities as a triumph. “Enabling Russian companies to successfully tap the market is a victory…Building cutting-edge factories and kilometres of new roads is a victory…Scientific discoveries and new technologies—these are also victories,” he boasted in a speech on the anniversary of the invasion.

Such talk hints at the contradiction at the heart of Mr Putin’s approach to the war. He wants both to mobilise ever more manpower and money for the fight and at the same time to secure Russians’ acquiescence by disrupting their lives as little as possible. As ever more power and resources are redistributed within Russia, this contradiction will become even more glaring. His regime’s wobbliest moment yet came in June, when bickering between the army and Wagner, a mercenary group led by Yevgeny Prigozhin, a close friend of Mr Putin, escalated into outright mutiny. Although Mr Prigozhin quickly backed down and later died in a convenient plane crash, it was a reminder that it is not easy to balance the competing interests within Russia’s elite. As economic dislocation increases and resources get more scarce, those conflicts will only grow.

https://www.economist.com/briefing/2023/11/30/how-putin-is-reshaping-russia-to-keep-his-war-machine-running?

Reply Quote

Date: 12/12/2023 10:53:24
From: dv
ID: 2102335
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

https://youtu.be/LifAnvXwqmk?si=DQj4cMn9kVV3vCNv

Ethnic minorities make up disproportionately large fraction of Russia’s 300000 casualties.

Reply Quote

Date: 12/12/2023 18:56:35
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2102512
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Avdeevka falls

Reply Quote

Date: 19/12/2023 12:48:48
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2104538
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Putin’s choice: The war or his people

Stephen Bartholomeusz
Senior business columnist
December 19, 2023 — 11.58am

The European Union has imposed its 12th package of sanctions against Russia, days after Russia’s central bank raised its key interest rate for the fifth time since July. There’s a connection between those events.

The Bank of Russia lifted its policy rate to a staggering 16 per cent last Friday in response to inflation running at a rate of about 7.5 per cent.

Soaring prices for goods and services – egg prices, for instance, are up 40 per cent this year – and (despite capital controls and the forced repatriation of companies’ foreign exchange holdings) a 20 per cent depreciation of the rouble against the US dollar, reflect the strains that the war in Ukraine and the West’s sanctions are inflicting on Russia’s economy.

While Vladimir Putin continues to describe the war as a “special military operation”, Russia is now operating a wartime economy.

Next year it is budgeting to spend about $160 billion on its military, more than three times its defence budget before the invasion of Ukraine and, at about 6 per cent of GDP, nearly 40 per cent of the government’s entire budgeted expenditures.

With Western companies and their capital and expertise fleeing Russia, a significant proportion of its diminished industrial capacity now devoted to supplying the war effort and the previous financial and trade sanctions cutting the economy off from Western goods and services, domestic demand is overwhelming the capacity of the economy to supply goods and services to the non-military sectors of the economy.

A shortage of labour is adding to the inflationary pressures. Not only have hundreds of thousands of former civilian employees been redeployed to Ukraine and more shifted to war-related production, but around 700,000 Russians have fled the country since the war began.

It took some time for the G7 (plus Australia) sanctions on Russian oil to bite, which enabled Russia to not only generate a lot of income during the early phase of the war but, as the sanctions and the $US60 a barrel price cap on its oil exports started to gain traction, assemble its “grey armada” of ageing tankers that has increasingly enabled it to circumvent the sanctions.

That has, however, come at a cost. The acquisition and operating costs of the fleet it has assembled, and the longer shipping routes to the Chinese and Indian buyers who have replaced European buyers as Russia’s major customers, have added, according to US Treasury, about $US36 a barrel to Russia’s costs.

China and India, as the only substantial buyers of Russian oil, have also been able to demand significant discounts, further reducing the net proceeds from Russia’s oil sales.

In that sense, even though more than half Russia’s oil exports in recent months have been at prices above the cap, the sanctions have worked to materially reduce Russia’s revenues from them. Russia’s central bank has said that the revenues of the country’s largest oil and gas producers were 41 per cent lower in the first nine months of this year than for the same period of 2022.

The new package of sanctions, apart from new EU and G7 measures designed to ban imports of Russian diamonds which, if effective, could deprive Russia of about $6.5 billion a year of revenue, include efforts to tighten the sanctions on oil exports.

Despite the blows to their assets as a result of the Ukraine war, most of Russia’s ultra-wealthy have stayed quiet about the conflict or offered only mild, token criticism of Vladimir Putin’s government.
Putin’s Russia

The EU will more closely monitor the sales of tankers to third countries, with more detailed documentation required and tougher action planned against third countries helping Russia evade the sanctions.

Senior US Treasury department officials are in Europe this week to discuss further efforts to tighten the enforcement of the price caps.

If the EU, US and others are able to squeeze Russia’s oil revenues even harder, it would add to the pressure on Russia’s economy and its ability to both sustain the war effort while maintaining domestic social stability.

Other new EU sanctions on imports of raw materials for steel production and processed aluminium and other metals and export bans on advanced technological and industrial goods, machinery and software are aimed at both choking Russia’s revenue and denying it access to dual-use technologies that might aid its war efforts.

There’s also been considerable discussion within the EU about using some of the $US300 billion ($447 billion) of the Russian foreign exchange reserves that the West froze at the onset of the war, or at least the earnings on them, as a source of financial aid for Ukraine.

Russia’s finances are stretched, with the Kremlin forced to impose ad hoc revenue-raising efforts, like the large “voluntary contributions” – levies – imposed on both domestic businesses and international companies trying to exit Russia. Those levies are becoming an increasingly important proportion of the government’s revenue base and a source of angst for Russia’s oligarchs.

There’s no relief in sight. The cost of the war continues to ratchet up, with spending consistently and substantially outstripped the budgeted amounts.

Russia’s commitment to OPEC+ production cuts – 300,000 barrels a day of oil and 200,000 barrels a day of refined product – is likely to put even more pressure on the revenue base, especially given that those cuts have so far failed to raise the oil price against a backdrop of weaker demand.

Given that Putin has confirmed (surprise, surprise) that he will again stand for re-election for the presidency next year, there will be pressure on the government to both sustain the war and keep ordinary Russians, if not happy, then at least calm.

If the West can keep Ukraine competitive in the conflict while broadening and deepening the range of sanctions and strengthening their enforcement, it might ultimately be able to force the Putin regime to have to choose between its militaristic ambitions and ensuring that its population doesn’t become restless as the impact of the war on their standards of living becomes increasingly obvious.

https://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/putin-s-choice-the-war-or-his-people-20231219-p5esdd.html

Reply Quote

Date: 19/12/2023 12:56:32
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2104541
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Witty Rejoinder said:

If the West can keep Ukraine competitive in the conflict while broadening and deepening the range of sanctions and strengthening their enforcement, it might ultimately be able to force the Putin regime to have to choose between its militaristic ambitions and ensuring that its population doesn’t become restless as the impact of the war on their standards of living becomes increasingly obvious.

https://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/putin-s-choice-the-war-or-his-people-20231219-p5esdd.html

Very broadly, that’s what brought on the downfall of Soviet Russia.

The Soviet economy was creaking badly under the strain of trying to maintain a military machine that could compete in quantity and quality with Western/NATO militaries, as it had to work with a lackadaisical population which saw no reason to strain at innovation or production for a government and economy which consistently failed to reward effort at any level.

It got to the point where the classic dilemma of ‘guns or butter’ was the first question on any Soviet agenda, and it had to be ‘guns’ that got the heave-ho. Without the rationale of building and maintaining the military, the Soviet state couldn’t survive.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/12/2023 12:59:39
From: Cymek
ID: 2104544
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

If the West can keep Ukraine competitive in the conflict while broadening and deepening the range of sanctions and strengthening their enforcement, it might ultimately be able to force the Putin regime to have to choose between its militaristic ambitions and ensuring that its population doesn’t become restless as the impact of the war on their standards of living becomes increasingly obvious.

https://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/putin-s-choice-the-war-or-his-people-20231219-p5esdd.html

Very broadly, that’s what brought on the downfall of Soviet Russia.

The Soviet economy was creaking badly under the strain of trying to maintain a military machine that could compete in quantity and quality with Western/NATO militaries, as it had to work with a lackadaisical population which saw no reason to strain at innovation or production for a government and economy which consistently failed to reward effort at any level.

It got to the point where the classic dilemma of ‘guns or butter’ was the first question on any Soviet agenda, and it had to be ‘guns’ that got the heave-ho. Without the rationale of building and maintaining the military, the Soviet state couldn’t survive.

Didn’t Star Wars help to do that

Reply Quote

Date: 19/12/2023 13:02:03
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2104546
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Cymek said:


captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

If the West can keep Ukraine competitive in the conflict while broadening and deepening the range of sanctions and strengthening their enforcement, it might ultimately be able to force the Putin regime to have to choose between its militaristic ambitions and ensuring that its population doesn’t become restless as the impact of the war on their standards of living becomes increasingly obvious.

https://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/putin-s-choice-the-war-or-his-people-20231219-p5esdd.html

Very broadly, that’s what brought on the downfall of Soviet Russia.

The Soviet economy was creaking badly under the strain of trying to maintain a military machine that could compete in quantity and quality with Western/NATO militaries, as it had to work with a lackadaisical population which saw no reason to strain at innovation or production for a government and economy which consistently failed to reward effort at any level.

It got to the point where the classic dilemma of ‘guns or butter’ was the first question on any Soviet agenda, and it had to be ‘guns’ that got the heave-ho. Without the rationale of building and maintaining the military, the Soviet state couldn’t survive.

Didn’t Star Wars help to do that

Yes. That was something of the straw that broke the camel’s back.

The Russians realised that they could never match the investment in any such system, or any counter to it.

There’s a lot of doubt about whether the Americans could ever really have got it to work, but the Russians couldn’t take the chance that they just might make it work, and the only way to stop it was to give up the competition.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/12/2023 22:06:43
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2105710
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


Cymek said:

captain_spalding said:

Very broadly, that’s what brought on the downfall of Soviet Russia.

The Soviet economy was creaking badly under the strain of trying to maintain a military machine that could compete in quantity and quality with Western/NATO militaries, as it had to work with a lackadaisical population which saw no reason to strain at innovation or production for a government and economy which consistently failed to reward effort at any level.

It got to the point where the classic dilemma of ‘guns or butter’ was the first question on any Soviet agenda, and it had to be ‘guns’ that got the heave-ho. Without the rationale of building and maintaining the military, the Soviet state couldn’t survive.

Didn’t Star Wars help to do that

Yes. That was something of the straw that broke the camel’s back.

The Russians realised that they could never match the investment in any such system, or any counter to it.

There’s a lot of doubt about whether the Americans could ever really have got it to work, but the Russians couldn’t take the chance that they just might make it work, and the only way to stop it was to give up the competition.


Remember yuri bezmenov ?

The whole purpose of ideological subversion subversion was to weaken the west because the soviet union union couldn’t ( or didn’t want to take on the west).

I still put my money on the red army

Reply Quote

Date: 21/12/2023 22:41:58
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2105717
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


captain_spalding said:

Cymek said:

Didn’t Star Wars help to do that

Yes. That was something of the straw that broke the camel’s back.

The Russians realised that they could never match the investment in any such system, or any counter to it.

There’s a lot of doubt about whether the Americans could ever really have got it to work, but the Russians couldn’t take the chance that they just might make it work, and the only way to stop it was to give up the competition.


Remember yuri bezmenov ?

The whole purpose of ideological subversion subversion was to weaken the west because the soviet union union couldn’t ( or didn’t want to take on the west).

I still put my money on the red army

Where you been, wookie? Freeze-dried? Doin’ hard time?

Ain’t been no ‘Red Army’ since 1946.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2023 12:42:55
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2105878
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Meet Russia’s newest nuclear missile subs

In December 2023, Russia’s Pacific Fleet officially welcomed two new additions to its forces: the strategic nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine, the Imperator Aleksandr III, and the nuclear-powered cruise missile submarine, the Krasnoyarsk.

The Imperator Aleksandr III can carry Bulava ballistic missiles, while the Krasnoyarsk is capable of being armed with Kalibr and Onyx cruise missiles.

Man , those Russians will be quaking in their boots once those 20 year old submarines finally go into service with the Australian navy in 20 years time.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2023 12:47:43
From: party_pants
ID: 2105880
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


Meet Russia’s newest nuclear missile subs

In December 2023, Russia’s Pacific Fleet officially welcomed two new additions to its forces: the strategic nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine, the Imperator Aleksandr III, and the nuclear-powered cruise missile submarine, the Krasnoyarsk.

The Imperator Aleksandr III can carry Bulava ballistic missiles, while the Krasnoyarsk is capable of being armed with Kalibr and Onyx cruise missiles.

Man , those Russians will be quaking in their boots once those 20 year old submarines finally go into service with the Australian navy in 20 years time.

Russia will have ceased to exist by then. Mark my words.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2023 12:50:53
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2105881
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


wookiemeister said:

Meet Russia’s newest nuclear missile subs

In December 2023, Russia’s Pacific Fleet officially welcomed two new additions to its forces: the strategic nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine, the Imperator Aleksandr III, and the nuclear-powered cruise missile submarine, the Krasnoyarsk.

The Imperator Aleksandr III can carry Bulava ballistic missiles, while the Krasnoyarsk is capable of being armed with Kalibr and Onyx cruise missiles.

Man , those Russians will be quaking in their boots once those 20 year old submarines finally go into service with the Australian navy in 20 years time.

Russia will have ceased to exist by then. Mark my words.


A short Frenchman and Austrian painter thought that too

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2023 12:51:09
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 2105882
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


wookiemeister said:

Meet Russia’s newest nuclear missile subs

In December 2023, Russia’s Pacific Fleet officially welcomed two new additions to its forces: the strategic nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine, the Imperator Aleksandr III, and the nuclear-powered cruise missile submarine, the Krasnoyarsk.

The Imperator Aleksandr III can carry Bulava ballistic missiles, while the Krasnoyarsk is capable of being armed with Kalibr and Onyx cruise missiles.

Man , those Russians will be quaking in their boots once those 20 year old submarines finally go into service with the Australian navy in 20 years time.

Russia will have ceased to exist by then. Mark my words.

Or it will be a satellite state of China,

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2023 12:53:25
From: party_pants
ID: 2105884
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Peak Warming Man said:


party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

Meet Russia’s newest nuclear missile subs

In December 2023, Russia’s Pacific Fleet officially welcomed two new additions to its forces: the strategic nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine, the Imperator Aleksandr III, and the nuclear-powered cruise missile submarine, the Krasnoyarsk.

The Imperator Aleksandr III can carry Bulava ballistic missiles, while the Krasnoyarsk is capable of being armed with Kalibr and Onyx cruise missiles.

Man , those Russians will be quaking in their boots once those 20 year old submarines finally go into service with the Australian navy in 20 years time.

Russia will have ceased to exist by then. Mark my words.

Or it will be a satellite state of China,

China might collapse too.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2023 12:57:55
From: roughbarked
ID: 2105887
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

Russia will have ceased to exist by then. Mark my words.

Or it will be a satellite state of China,

China might collapse too.

So who will be left standing?

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2023 12:58:55
From: roughbarked
ID: 2105889
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

Meet Russia’s newest nuclear missile subs

In December 2023, Russia’s Pacific Fleet officially welcomed two new additions to its forces: the strategic nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine, the Imperator Aleksandr III, and the nuclear-powered cruise missile submarine, the Krasnoyarsk.

The Imperator Aleksandr III can carry Bulava ballistic missiles, while the Krasnoyarsk is capable of being armed with Kalibr and Onyx cruise missiles.

Man , those Russians will be quaking in their boots once those 20 year old submarines finally go into service with the Australian navy in 20 years time.

Russia will have ceased to exist by then. Mark my words.


A short Frenchman and Austrian painter thought that too

But they wanted to occupy Russia.
Ukraine wants nothing of the sort. They only want their land back.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2023 12:59:20
From: party_pants
ID: 2105891
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:


party_pants said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Or it will be a satellite state of China,

China might collapse too.

So who will be left standing?

USA, Canada, Mexico, Australia, Vanuatu. Don’t hold out too much hope for the rest.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2023 13:00:23
From: roughbarked
ID: 2105893
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

China might collapse too.

So who will be left standing?

USA, Canada, Mexico, Australia, Vanuatu. Don’t hold out too much hope for the rest.

OK. Sounds quite a lot more serious than most people think.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2023 13:05:52
From: party_pants
ID: 2105896
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:


party_pants said:

roughbarked said:

So who will be left standing?

USA, Canada, Mexico, Australia, Vanuatu. Don’t hold out too much hope for the rest.

OK. Sounds quite a lot more serious than most people think.

Those countries with food and energy security will do fine. Those that don’t will not do so well. Then add in demographics on top of that, countries with a large elderly population to support from a shrinking base of young people will decline even faster.

The decades of economic growth and population growth are coming to an end, and things are going to turn sharply in the 2030s.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/12/2023 13:08:06
From: roughbarked
ID: 2105899
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

USA, Canada, Mexico, Australia, Vanuatu. Don’t hold out too much hope for the rest.

OK. Sounds quite a lot more serious than most people think.

Those countries with food and energy security will do fine. Those that don’t will not do so well. Then add in demographics on top of that, countries with a large elderly population to support from a shrinking base of young people will decline even faster.

The decades of economic growth and population growth are coming to an end, and things are going to turn sharply in the 2030s.

Yeah and who knows, I’ll probably be dead by then. If not by natural means, somebody will have shot me to take my water.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/12/2023 10:54:39
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2106510
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

How will the Ukraine war end? Victory against Russia looks unlikely

As the second anniversary of the war approaches, is finding it far more difficult to impose its sovereignty on the battlefield, with hopes of imminent victory fading and the focus shifting to ensuring that no further land is lost.

Ukrainian generals said this week that Russia was on the offensive in the east of the country and that troops were being forced to downsize some military operations because of artillery shortages. “We can’t respond to everything the Russians are throwing at us. It’s as painful as hell,” said Yurash.

The scale of Ukraine’s casualties is classified but there is no longer any attempt to disguise that losses are huge. “I don’t even give the new guys call signs any more. Most of them don’t last long,” said a Ukrainian soldier in the Kharkiv region, speaking on the condition of anonymity.

The Telegraph

Reply Quote

Date: 25/12/2023 23:26:57
From: Kingy
ID: 2107064
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

“The war in Ukraine pushes the development of military UAVs to further levels. Ukraine has started to produce jet-propelled drones. The UJ-25 manufactured by the Ukrainian company Ukrjet is but another milestone in this development.

The attached pictures show a crashed drone somewhere in Russia. At this point is unclear whether a malfunction, EW or projectiles brought it down, but it marks another episode in this drone war.”

Reply Quote

Date: 25/12/2023 23:49:40
From: Kingy
ID: 2107066
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

https://kyivindependent.com/isw-russia-confirms-it-is-using-prohibited-chemical-weapons-in-kherson-oblast/

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 01:04:09
From: Dark Orange
ID: 2107072
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

So, “strange things are afoot at the circle K.”

The Ukes have been making painfully slow advances along the Eastern and South Eastern front. This is mostly due to weeks of Russians throwing wave after wave of men and machinery into the path of Ukrainian bullets in Avdiivka . Ukrainian casualties vs Russian are reported to be anywhere between 1:7 to 1:10. But all that defensing slows down the advancing.

The Russian air support is also making life hard for the Ukes – they can launch their stuff while keeping out of Patriot range. But yesterday the news came out that three Russian SU-35 fighter bombers were blasted out of the sky before they were able to launch their missiles. And today, a fourth SU-35 (and possibly a 5th of unknown make) was also destroyed, meaning no Russian air support and coincidentally solid gains by Ukraine on the front.

The big question here is just how did the Ukes manage to shoot down those aircraft? There is speculation that a forward radar on the front line was used and when that picked up the hostile aircraft, the Patriot system(s) behind the front line would fire up and do their thing. But if that is the case, why didn’t the Ukes do this weeks ago?

A second scenario is that Santa delivered some F-16s.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 06:10:31
From: roughbarked
ID: 2107075
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


https://kyivindependent.com/isw-russia-confirms-it-is-using-prohibited-chemical-weapons-in-kherson-oblast/

It is also true that there is an international arrest warrant out for Putin. He’s thumbing his nose at the western alliance.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 14:44:09
From: Dark Orange
ID: 2107156
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Russian ship “Novocherkassk” carrying arms from Iran goes boom in a Crimean port.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 15:21:16
From: Michael V
ID: 2107163
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Dark Orange said:


Russian ship “Novocherkassk” carrying arms from Iran goes boom in a Crimean port.


Good-oh.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 15:21:56
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 2107164
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Dark Orange said:


Russian ship “Novocherkassk” carrying arms from Iran goes boom in a Crimean port.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhJYG1u6bzQ

Link

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 16:08:25
From: roughbarked
ID: 2107183
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bogsnorkler said:


Dark Orange said:

Russian ship “Novocherkassk” carrying arms from Iran goes boom in a Crimean port.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhJYG1u6bzQ

Link

Russian navy losing ships to a country that doesn’t have a navy. That works for me.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 16:20:26
From: roughbarked
ID: 2107184
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:


Bogsnorkler said:

Dark Orange said:

Russian ship “Novocherkassk” carrying arms from Iran goes boom in a Crimean port.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhJYG1u6bzQ

Link

Russian navy losing ships to a country that doesn’t have a navy. That works for me.

Russia loses multiple jets in a week.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 16:30:38
From: Dark Orange
ID: 2107185
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:


Bogsnorkler said:

Dark Orange said:

Russian ship “Novocherkassk” carrying arms from Iran goes boom in a Crimean port.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhJYG1u6bzQ

Link

Russian navy losing ships to a country that doesn’t have a navy. That works for me.

The black sea fleet is essentially incapacitated. Afraid to participate, they stay as far away from the action as possible because they can’t be repaired if they get damaged.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 16:34:09
From: roughbarked
ID: 2107187
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Dark Orange said:


roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhJYG1u6bzQ

Link

Russian navy losing ships to a country that doesn’t have a navy. That works for me.

The black sea fleet is essentially incapacitated. Afraid to participate, they stay as far away from the action as possible because they can’t be repaired if they get damaged.


It appears the Ukranians have impecable taste when choosing which ship to hit.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 16:42:08
From: Dark Orange
ID: 2107189
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:


Dark Orange said:

roughbarked said:

Russian navy losing ships to a country that doesn’t have a navy. That works for me.

The black sea fleet is essentially incapacitated. Afraid to participate, they stay as far away from the action as possible because they can’t be repaired if they get damaged.


It appears the Ukranians have impecable taste when choosing which ship to hit.

It’s almost like they knew it was coming into port carrying Shahed drones…

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 16:44:30
From: roughbarked
ID: 2107190
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Dark Orange said:


roughbarked said:

Dark Orange said:

The black sea fleet is essentially incapacitated. Afraid to participate, they stay as far away from the action as possible because they can’t be repaired if they get damaged.


It appears the Ukranians have impecable taste when choosing which ship to hit.

It’s almost like they knew it was coming into port carrying Shahed drones…

Now now, that’ll cause Putin to say the USA is helping the dumb Ukranians. ;)

What he hadn’t expected was that they are smarter than he thought.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 18:01:12
From: Kingy
ID: 2107212
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 21:22:17
From: Kingy
ID: 2107250
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 22:37:22
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2107268
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

The russians will continue losing ships unless they destroy the airports in ukraine. These kinds of missiles are launched from jets , the russians never bothered knocking out the power system in a shock and awe tactic used by the Americans.

In other news : maryinka falls

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 22:39:32
From: Kingy
ID: 2107271
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


The russians will continue losing ships unless they destroy the airports in ukraine. These kinds of missiles are launched from jets , the russians never bothered knocking out the power system in a shock and awe tactic used by the Americans.

In other news : maryinka falls

Moscow falls too, and other made-up bullshit. Remember Avdiivka?

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 22:46:29
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2107275
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


wookiemeister said:

The russians will continue losing ships unless they destroy the airports in ukraine. These kinds of missiles are launched from jets , the russians never bothered knocking out the power system in a shock and awe tactic used by the Americans.

In other news : maryinka falls

Moscow falls too, and other made-up bullshit. Remember Avdiivka?


You’ve not seen footage of this war have you?

You see uko troops rolling around covered in flames, one guy was too weak to put out the flames consuming his clothing

Then there’s the small drones being flown into bunkers , a big bang and everyone’s dead.

The Russians have mined entire areas extensively, one uko soldier cautiously jumps from the back of the APC and his foot to the knee is blown off. The russians destroyed a few buses taking uko troops back for a holiday a few hundred killed in one pop.

As I said, maryinka falls – see you’d be a Stalingrad fan – not one step back and then the wermacht loses 98,000 men because a few maniacs don’t understand that you withdraw from death zones and regroup to more fortified and prepared lines.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 22:51:10
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2107276
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

The russians have gone big on drones and missiles

Personally I think their biggest mistake was not knocking out the Ukrainian power grid – the Americans led the way in showing that knocking out the power grid wins wars quickly , they did it when they attacked Yugoslavia and Iraq.

At some point someone in the Kremlin will decide they need to wrap this thing up – or maybe they’ll keep bleeding this place. The yanks have grown tired of this conflict and are sending bombs and money to israel now.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 22:54:44
From: Kingy
ID: 2107277
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


Kingy said:

wookiemeister said:

The russians will continue losing ships unless they destroy the airports in ukraine. These kinds of missiles are launched from jets , the russians never bothered knocking out the power system in a shock and awe tactic used by the Americans.

In other news : maryinka falls

Moscow falls too, and other made-up bullshit. Remember Avdiivka?


You’ve not seen footage of this war have you?

You see uko troops rolling around covered in flames, one guy was too weak to put out the flames consuming his clothing

Then there’s the small drones being flown into bunkers , a big bang and everyone’s dead.

The Russians have mined entire areas extensively, one uko soldier cautiously jumps from the back of the APC and his foot to the knee is blown off. The russians destroyed a few buses taking uko troops back for a holiday a few hundred killed in one pop.

As I said, maryinka falls – see you’d be a Stalingrad fan – not one step back and then the wermacht loses 98,000 men because a few maniacs don’t understand that you withdraw from death zones and regroup to more fortified and prepared lines.

I have no doubt that Ukrainian defenders are being killed by the occupiers, but a lot of the footage you are describing are the russian prisoner/soldier/cannonfodder being killed by the defenders.

Get your head out of the disinformation trough and look around. You are posting in a defacto science forum that expects facts and references for any wild claims. You provide neither, just putins rehashed propaganda, and you wonder why we don’t take you seriously.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 23:00:09
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2107280
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


wookiemeister said:

Kingy said:

Moscow falls too, and other made-up bullshit. Remember Avdiivka?


You’ve not seen footage of this war have you?

You see uko troops rolling around covered in flames, one guy was too weak to put out the flames consuming his clothing

Then there’s the small drones being flown into bunkers , a big bang and everyone’s dead.

The Russians have mined entire areas extensively, one uko soldier cautiously jumps from the back of the APC and his foot to the knee is blown off. The russians destroyed a few buses taking uko troops back for a holiday a few hundred killed in one pop.

As I said, maryinka falls – see you’d be a Stalingrad fan – not one step back and then the wermacht loses 98,000 men because a few maniacs don’t understand that you withdraw from death zones and regroup to more fortified and prepared lines.

I have no doubt that Ukrainian defenders are being killed by the occupiers, but a lot of the footage you are describing are the russian prisoner/soldier/cannonfodder being killed by the defenders.

Get your head out of the disinformation trough and look around. You are posting in a defacto science forum that expects facts and references for any wild claims. You provide neither, just putins rehashed propaganda, and you wonder why we don’t take you seriously.


Kingy

Can you name the last submarine Australia ever made OR put into service?

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 23:02:52
From: Kingy
ID: 2107283
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


Kingy said:

wookiemeister said:

You’ve not seen footage of this war have you?

You see uko troops rolling around covered in flames, one guy was too weak to put out the flames consuming his clothing

Then there’s the small drones being flown into bunkers , a big bang and everyone’s dead.

The Russians have mined entire areas extensively, one uko soldier cautiously jumps from the back of the APC and his foot to the knee is blown off. The russians destroyed a few buses taking uko troops back for a holiday a few hundred killed in one pop.

As I said, maryinka falls – see you’d be a Stalingrad fan – not one step back and then the wermacht loses 98,000 men because a few maniacs don’t understand that you withdraw from death zones and regroup to more fortified and prepared lines.

I have no doubt that Ukrainian defenders are being killed by the occupiers, but a lot of the footage you are describing are the russian prisoner/soldier/cannonfodder being killed by the defenders.

Get your head out of the disinformation trough and look around. You are posting in a defacto science forum that expects facts and references for any wild claims. You provide neither, just putins rehashed propaganda, and you wonder why we don’t take you seriously.


Kingy

Can you name the last submarine Australia ever made OR put into service?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 23:06:54
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2107288
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


wookiemeister said:

Kingy said:

I have no doubt that Ukrainian defenders are being killed by the occupiers, but a lot of the footage you are describing are the russian prisoner/soldier/cannonfodder being killed by the defenders.

Get your head out of the disinformation trough and look around. You are posting in a defacto science forum that expects facts and references for any wild claims. You provide neither, just putins rehashed propaganda, and you wonder why we don’t take you seriously.


Kingy

Can you name the last submarine Australia ever made OR put into service?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism


Oh OK I’ll make it easier

Can you name ONE jet fighter MADE by in Australia in say the last 50 years ?

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 23:07:13
From: party_pants
ID: 2107289
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

More like Notaboutism.

Any criticism about Russia’s lacl of military success is met with some bullshit about Australia’s lack of military strength. But this war is not about Australia. Australia is a not a combatant. Nor does Australia seek an empire.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 23:08:43
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2107290
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


Kingy said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

More like Notaboutism.

Any criticism about Russia’s lacl of military success is met with some bullshit about Australia’s lack of military strength. But this war is not about Australia. Australia is a not a combatant. Nor does Australia seek an empire.


Ok

Name ONE RPG Australia has ever made ?

You know, the ones knocking out israeli tanks at the moment

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 23:09:29
From: Kingy
ID: 2107291
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


Kingy said:

wookiemeister said:

Kingy

Can you name the last submarine Australia ever made OR put into service?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism


Oh OK I’ll make it easier

Can you name ONE jet fighter MADE by in Australia in say the last 50 years ?

Also Whataboutism.

Here, have a read of this and try to come up with a sensible argument that doesn’t conflict with any of these fallacies.

https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/rhetological-fallacies/

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 23:10:17
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2107293
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


wookiemeister said:

Kingy said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism


Oh OK I’ll make it easier

Can you name ONE jet fighter MADE by in Australia in say the last 50 years ?

Also Whataboutism.

Here, have a read of this and try to come up with a sensible argument that doesn’t conflict with any of these fallacies.

https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/rhetological-fallacies/


Ok

Can you name ONE ammunition round Australia had DESIGNED AND MADE?

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 23:11:15
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2107294
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

I’m not sure if Australia even makes bayonets that might be attached to a rifle

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 23:13:55
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 2107295
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

~40 F-16 in Ukraine.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 23:16:20
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2107296
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

What I’m trying to gently tell you kingy

Is that a massive country, that’s has massive resources, massive manufacturing base , that’s fighting on home ground ( Odessa is a Russian city ) is NOT going to lose. For whatever reason the russians are biding their time. Given we’ve been pumping weapons and money into ukraine pray that the US doesn’t fall over one day.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 23:17:15
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2107297
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bogsnorkler said:


~40 F-16 in Ukraine.

Yeah it made me wonder if the F16s were brought in to launch NATO cruise missiles.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 23:21:13
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 2107298
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html

Link

Ukraine losses.

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

Link

Russian losses.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 23:28:13
From: party_pants
ID: 2107300
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

The comparisons with Australia are pointless.

Russia was expected to win within 3 weeks, even 3 days. It is now getting on to 2 years and they don’t seem to be close to winning the war. Ukraine don’t seem to be able to retake all their former territory either.

Some F-16s might ne useful. They are ex-Netherlands air force.

The Dutch F-16s were built by Fokker in the 1980s. My cousin worked there at the time, on the F-16 production line.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 23:30:12
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2107301
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


The comparisons with Australia are pointless.

Russia was expected to win within 3 weeks, even 3 days. It is now getting on to 2 years and they don’t seem to be close to winning the war. Ukraine don’t seem to be able to retake all their former territory either.

Some F-16s might ne useful. They are ex-Netherlands air force.

The Dutch F-16s were built by Fokker in the 1980s. My cousin worked there at the time, on the F-16 production line.


Bring it on I say , send NATO F16s, typhoons and make a surprise attack on Russia to teach them a lesson. It’s time Australia got involved in this war because someone thought it was a good idea.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 23:33:37
From: Kingy
ID: 2107302
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


party_pants said:

The comparisons with Australia are pointless.

Russia was expected to win within 3 weeks, even 3 days. It is now getting on to 2 years and they don’t seem to be close to winning the war. Ukraine don’t seem to be able to retake all their former territory either.

Some F-16s might ne useful. They are ex-Netherlands air force.

The Dutch F-16s were built by Fokker in the 1980s. My cousin worked there at the time, on the F-16 production line.


Bring it on I say , send NATO F16s, typhoons and make a surprise attack on Russia to teach them a lesson. It’s time Australia got involved in this war because someone thought it was a good idea.

I could explain the leadup to this war, but you would ignore it and claim some other spurious bullshit.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 23:33:56
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2107303
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Australia could send its f18s to ukraine, just use Australian pilots they’d be keen to test themselves against a proper military instead of some guys running around in rags and ak47s. Australia now has the powerful F35 , the F18s should be used to defeat Russia. Of course , there will be consequences but we shouldn’t worry about this.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 23:36:15
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2107304
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


wookiemeister said:

party_pants said:

The comparisons with Australia are pointless.

Russia was expected to win within 3 weeks, even 3 days. It is now getting on to 2 years and they don’t seem to be close to winning the war. Ukraine don’t seem to be able to retake all their former territory either.

Some F-16s might ne useful. They are ex-Netherlands air force.

The Dutch F-16s were built by Fokker in the 1980s. My cousin worked there at the time, on the F-16 production line.


Bring it on I say , send NATO F16s, typhoons and make a surprise attack on Russia to teach them a lesson. It’s time Australia got involved in this war because someone thought it was a good idea.

I could explain the leadup to this war, but you would ignore it and claim some other spurious bullshit.


Don’t bother. Write to your local MP calling for more weapons and money to be sent to Ukraine.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 23:41:42
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2107305
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

I think when it happens for Australia, it will happen fast.

Its possible the russians will use nukes but these might be reserved for major military bases and principally Canberra. The power grid will be hit I’d say , Australia has few base load powerstations and once they are off line things will start breaking down. Fuel depots at the ports and the handful of fuel refineries will be hit. Over the next few weeks with no fuel starvation will set in, riots in the major cities, cannibalism will happen within weeks. The chinese will sail in unopposed and take over the mines resources to the north.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 23:42:17
From: Kingy
ID: 2107306
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


Kingy said:

wookiemeister said:

Bring it on I say , send NATO F16s, typhoons and make a surprise attack on Russia to teach them a lesson. It’s time Australia got involved in this war because someone thought it was a good idea.

I could explain the leadup to this war, but you would ignore it and claim some other spurious bullshit.


Don’t bother. Write to your local MP calling for more weapons and money to be sent to Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLAzeHnNgR8

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 23:45:08
From: Kingy
ID: 2107307
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


wookiemeister said:

Kingy said:

I could explain the leadup to this war, but you would ignore it and claim some other spurious bullshit.


Don’t bother. Write to your local MP calling for more weapons and money to be sent to Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLAzeHnNgR8

Why am I not surprised that Muskrat has removed this video from twitter in the last couple of days.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 23:48:23
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2107308
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


Kingy said:

wookiemeister said:

Don’t bother. Write to your local MP calling for more weapons and money to be sent to Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLAzeHnNgR8

Why am I not surprised that Muskrat has removed this video from twitter in the last couple of days.


McCain complaining about Russia?

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 23:55:25
From: Kingy
ID: 2107310
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


party_pants said:

The comparisons with Australia are pointless.

Russia was expected to win within 3 weeks, even 3 days. It is now getting on to 2 years and they don’t seem to be close to winning the war. Ukraine don’t seem to be able to retake all their former territory either.

Some F-16s might ne useful. They are ex-Netherlands air force.

The Dutch F-16s were built by Fokker in the 1980s. My cousin worked there at the time, on the F-16 production line.


Bring it on I say , send NATO F16s, typhoons and make a surprise attack on Russia to teach them a lesson. It’s time Australia got involved in this war because someone thought it was a good idea.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/12/2023 00:13:37
From: party_pants
ID: 2107315
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:

It is no use. He has a dark wish for Australia to get directly involved in the conflict by sending ground troops, and he wants them to get slaughtered.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/12/2023 00:50:15
From: roughbarked
ID: 2107322
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


Kingy said:

wookiemeister said:

You’ve not seen footage of this war have you?

You see uko troops rolling around covered in flames, one guy was too weak to put out the flames consuming his clothing

Then there’s the small drones being flown into bunkers , a big bang and everyone’s dead.

The Russians have mined entire areas extensively, one uko soldier cautiously jumps from the back of the APC and his foot to the knee is blown off. The russians destroyed a few buses taking uko troops back for a holiday a few hundred killed in one pop.

As I said, maryinka falls – see you’d be a Stalingrad fan – not one step back and then the wermacht loses 98,000 men because a few maniacs don’t understand that you withdraw from death zones and regroup to more fortified and prepared lines.

I have no doubt that Ukrainian defenders are being killed by the occupiers, but a lot of the footage you are describing are the russian prisoner/soldier/cannonfodder being killed by the defenders.

Get your head out of the disinformation trough and look around. You are posting in a defacto science forum that expects facts and references for any wild claims. You provide neither, just putins rehashed propaganda, and you wonder why we don’t take you seriously.


Kingy

Can you name the last submarine Australia ever made OR put into service?

What the hell does that have to do with the war in Ukraine?

Reply Quote

Date: 27/12/2023 01:00:30
From: roughbarked
ID: 2107325
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Russia says naval ship in Crimea was damaged in airstrike by Ukrainian forces

Russia says two Ukrainian fighter jets were destroyed by anti-aircraft fire during the attack, however Ukraine has denied this claim.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/12/2023 01:51:24
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2107328
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


Kingy said:

wookiemeister said:

You’ve not seen footage of this war have you?

You see uko troops rolling around covered in flames, one guy was too weak to put out the flames consuming his clothing

Then there’s the small drones being flown into bunkers , a big bang and everyone’s dead.

The Russians have mined entire areas extensively, one uko soldier cautiously jumps from the back of the APC and his foot to the knee is blown off. The russians destroyed a few buses taking uko troops back for a holiday a few hundred killed in one pop.

As I said, maryinka falls – see you’d be a Stalingrad fan – not one step back and then the wermacht loses 98,000 men because a few maniacs don’t understand that you withdraw from death zones and regroup to more fortified and prepared lines.

I have no doubt that Ukrainian defenders are being killed by the occupiers, but a lot of the footage you are describing are the russian prisoner/soldier/cannonfodder being killed by the defenders.

Get your head out of the disinformation trough and look around. You are posting in a defacto science forum that expects facts and references for any wild claims. You provide neither, just putins rehashed propaganda, and you wonder why we don’t take you seriously.


Kingy

Can you name the last submarine Australia ever made OR put into service?

The Collins-class submarines are Australian-built diesel-electric submarines operated by the Royal Australian Navy (RAN). The Collins class takes its name from Australian Vice Admiral John Augustine Collins; each of the six submarines is named after significant RAN personnel who distinguished themselves in action during World War II. The six vessels were the first submarines built in Australia, prompting widespread improvements in Australian industry and delivering a sovereign (Australian controlled) sustainment/maintenance capability.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/12/2023 08:17:17
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 2107354
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RlFtg6CJ7I

Link

Ropucha-class Landing Ship Novocherkassk Confirmed SUNK By Storm Shadow in Photo

Reply Quote

Date: 27/12/2023 08:27:26
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 2107355
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bogsnorkler said:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RlFtg6CJ7I

Link

Ropucha-class Landing Ship Novocherkassk Confirmed SUNK By Storm Shadow in Photo

Russian navy is becoming smaller.

Like their tank force.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/12/2023 09:10:01
From: Michael V
ID: 2107357
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bogsnorkler said:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RlFtg6CJ7I

Link

Ropucha-class Landing Ship Novocherkassk Confirmed SUNK By Storm Shadow in Photo

Good.

But I wish this war would end. Cannon fodder deaths are getting me drown.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/12/2023 13:50:56
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 2107496
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJaNUt_a-SE

Link

GOOD MORNING CRIMEA! UKRAINE COMPLETELY DESTROYED HUGE RUSSIAN LANDING SHIP || 2023

Warthog Defense

Reply Quote

Date: 27/12/2023 13:55:29
From: Cymek
ID: 2107497
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bogsnorkler said:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJaNUt_a-SE

Link

GOOD MORNING CRIMEA! UKRAINE COMPLETELY DESTROYED HUGE RUSSIAN LANDING SHIP || 2023

Warthog Defense

Wookie Minister For Russian Truths “LIES !!”

Reply Quote

Date: 27/12/2023 14:01:15
From: Dark Orange
ID: 2107499
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


Kingy said:

wookiemeister said:

The russians will continue losing ships unless they destroy the airports in ukraine. These kinds of missiles are launched from jets , the russians never bothered knocking out the power system in a shock and awe tactic used by the Americans.

In other news : maryinka falls

Moscow falls too, and other made-up bullshit. Remember Avdiivka?


You’ve not seen footage of this war have you?

You see uko troops rolling around covered in flames, one guy was too weak to put out the flames consuming his clothing

Then there’s the small drones being flown into bunkers , a big bang and everyone’s dead.

The Russians have mined entire areas extensively, one uko soldier cautiously jumps from the back of the APC and his foot to the knee is blown off. The russians destroyed a few buses taking uko troops back for a holiday a few hundred killed in one pop.

As I said, maryinka falls – see you’d be a Stalingrad fan – not one step back and then the wermacht loses 98,000 men because a few maniacs don’t understand that you withdraw from death zones and regroup to more fortified and prepared lines.

Nobody is denying that there are horrific tolls being taken on both sides.

But if the Russians are winning so hard (as you suggest they are) then how is it that they have had 4x SU-35 and an SU-30 shot out of the sky, and had a large ship vaporised while in the most heavily defended port, all within a week?

And that’s on top of losing a good chunk of their S400 missile systems, giving up Snake Island and all those strategically rigs in the Black Sea with hardly a fight, and steadily losing ground on the front.

Reply Quote

Date: 30/12/2023 19:46:30
From: Kingy
ID: 2108599
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

“Civilian vessel hit by Russian mine in the Black Sea

The bulk carrier was traveling under the flag of Panama to load grain in one of the Danube ports. As a result, two sailors were injured.

On the deck there was a heavy fire. The captain ran aground. It will be returned to port soon.”

Reply Quote

Date: 13/01/2024 22:16:24
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2114077
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

US/ chilean Youtuber Gonzalo Lira killed in Ukrainian prison.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/01/2024 16:41:53
From: Kingy
ID: 2114367
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Top Russian journalist Alexander Rybin, 39, found lying dead on roadside after blasting Putin for ‘gigantic corruption’ | The US Sun

Reply Quote

Date: 14/01/2024 16:43:41
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 2114370
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


Top Russian journalist Alexander Rybin, 39, found lying dead on roadside after blasting Putin for ‘gigantic corruption’ | The US Sun

Fell out of a (car?) window.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/01/2024 16:50:16
From: kii
ID: 2114373
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


Top Russian journalist Alexander Rybin, 39, found lying dead on roadside after blasting Putin for ‘gigantic corruption’ | The US Sun

High death toll of journalists in Gaza.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/01/2024 02:14:39
From: Kingy
ID: 2116730
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

“This is a very curious footage. An Ukrainian drone was observing a Russian “9K330 Tor” when the Russian air defense system was firing and missing the drone. Then the hunter became the prey and the drone came for the air defense vehicle and apparently hit it.”

https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1748686845603405845/video/1

Reply Quote

Date: 22/01/2024 02:15:56
From: Kingy
ID: 2116731
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

“Heavy explosions and large fires in the Leningrad Region, Russia, almost 900km from the Ukrainian border. According to the governor of the Leningrad region, the facilities of the Novatek natural gas company are compromised. Locals reported that they heard the sounds of drones before the explosion.”

https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1748877639618535586/video/1

Reply Quote

Date: 22/01/2024 09:13:32
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2116767
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


“Heavy explosions and large fires in the Leningrad Region, Russia, almost 900km from the Ukrainian border. According to the governor of the Leningrad region, the facilities of the Novatek natural gas company are compromised. Locals reported that they heard the sounds of drones before the explosion.”

https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1748877639618535586/video/1

‘Locals reported that they heard the sounds of drones before the explosion.’

No, that was the sound of pigeons coming home to roost.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/01/2024 15:59:29
From: Kingy
ID: 2118632
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

“Politico: EU is considering stripping Hungary’s voting rights if it blocks Ukraine aid

The EU is weighing the “nuclear option” of revoking Hungary’s voting rights if it again vetoes a 50 billion euro ($54 billion) aid package for Ukraine at an upcoming European Council summit next week, Politico reported on Jan. 26, citing unnamed diplomats and officials.

The European Parliament supported a resolution earlier in January to suspend Hungary’s voting rights due to the country’s “erosion of the rule of law” and obstructive behavior in the face of EU consensus building. The EU’s criticism of Hungary increased after it previously blocked the $54 billion Ukraine aid package in December 2023.”

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-threatens-silence-hungary-orban-if-blocks-ukrainian-aid-funds-article-7/

Reply Quote

Date: 1/02/2024 11:32:16
From: Michael V
ID: 2120175
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Damn. That’s not good.

A judgement on another case about the invasion is expected on Friday.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-01/un-court-rejects-most-of-ukraine-case-against-russia/103412306

Reply Quote

Date: 1/02/2024 11:40:38
From: Bubblecar
ID: 2120179
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Michael V said:


Damn. That’s not good.

A judgement on another case about the invasion is expected on Friday.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-01/un-court-rejects-most-of-ukraine-case-against-russia/103412306

The UN is inevitably a heavily compromised body.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/02/2024 15:19:21
From: Kingy
ID: 2120792
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

“Last night Ukraine sank the Ivanovets, a guided missile ship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, with what appear to be sea-borne drones. At this rate there won’t be much left of the once-feared Russian navy on the Black Sea.”

Video

Reply Quote

Date: 2/02/2024 15:22:05
From: Michael V
ID: 2120793
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


“Last night Ukraine sank the Ivanovets, a guided missile ship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, with what appear to be sea-borne drones. At this rate there won’t be much left of the once-feared Russian navy on the Black Sea.”

Video


Good.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/02/2024 15:25:42
From: roughbarked
ID: 2120796
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Michael V said:


Kingy said:

“Last night Ukraine sank the Ivanovets, a guided missile ship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, with what appear to be sea-borne drones. At this rate there won’t be much left of the once-feared Russian navy on the Black Sea.”

Video


Good.

Keep on keeping on knocking their missile firing ships.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/02/2024 19:34:59
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2120919
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Apparently, Ukraine didn’t sink a Russian ‘Tarantul’ class missile corvette in recent days.

Wookie will be along soon to tell us that the video here:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-02/ukraine-claims-says-sea-drones-sank-russian-ship-in-black-sea/103421062

does not show any such ship being stalked, struck, damaged, listing, or sinking.

And to presumably make sarcastic remarks about how Australian forces should be deployed in strength in the Ukrainian fight.

The usual.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/02/2024 19:46:34
From: JudgeMental
ID: 2120925
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


Apparently, Ukraine didn’t sink a Russian ‘Tarantul’ class missile corvette in recent days.

Wookie will be along soon to tell us that the video here:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-02/ukraine-claims-says-sea-drones-sank-russian-ship-in-black-sea/103421062

does not show any such ship being stalked, struck, damaged, listing, or sinking.

And to presumably make sarcastic remarks about how Australian forces should be deployed in strength in the Ukrainian fight.

The usual.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkGVjAl6Z74&t=486s

Link

Tarantul-class Corvette Ivanovets Sunk By Ukrainian Marine Drones in Crimea!

Suchomimus

Reply Quote

Date: 2/02/2024 19:48:37
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2120926
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

JudgeMental said:


captain_spalding said:

Apparently, Ukraine didn’t sink a Russian ‘Tarantul’ class missile corvette in recent days.

Wookie will be along soon to tell us that the video here:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-02/ukraine-claims-says-sea-drones-sank-russian-ship-in-black-sea/103421062

does not show any such ship being stalked, struck, damaged, listing, or sinking.

And to presumably make sarcastic remarks about how Australian forces should be deployed in strength in the Ukrainian fight.

The usual.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkGVjAl6Z74&t=486s

Link

Tarantul-class Corvette Ivanovets Sunk By Ukrainian Marine Drones in Crimea!

Suchomimus

Those gas-turbine exhausts in the stern do make such lovely infra-red targets for surface drones, don’t they?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/02/2024 19:56:25
From: Kingy
ID: 2120929
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


JudgeMental said:

captain_spalding said:

Apparently, Ukraine didn’t sink a Russian ‘Tarantul’ class missile corvette in recent days.

Wookie will be along soon to tell us that the video here:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-02/ukraine-claims-says-sea-drones-sank-russian-ship-in-black-sea/103421062

does not show any such ship being stalked, struck, damaged, listing, or sinking.

And to presumably make sarcastic remarks about how Australian forces should be deployed in strength in the Ukrainian fight.

The usual.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkGVjAl6Z74&t=486s

Link

Tarantul-class Corvette Ivanovets Sunk By Ukrainian Marine Drones in Crimea!

Suchomimus

Those gas-turbine exhausts in the stern do make such lovely infra-red targets for surface drones, don’t they?

Interesting that one of the drones aims straight into the hole made by the previous drone.

My inexperienced landlubber arse would have thought that an extra hole elsewhere would have been more likely to sink the ship.

What up with that, Capn?

Reply Quote

Date: 2/02/2024 19:58:31
From: Bubblecar
ID: 2120932
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


captain_spalding said:

JudgeMental said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkGVjAl6Z74&t=486s

Link

Tarantul-class Corvette Ivanovets Sunk By Ukrainian Marine Drones in Crimea!

Suchomimus

Those gas-turbine exhausts in the stern do make such lovely infra-red targets for surface drones, don’t they?

Interesting that one of the drones aims straight into the hole made by the previous drone.

My inexperienced landlubber arse would have thought that an extra hole elsewhere would have been more likely to sink the ship.

What up with that, Capn?

Hitting it again where there’s already major structural damage would be a sensible decision.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/02/2024 19:59:50
From: JudgeMental
ID: 2120933
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


captain_spalding said:

JudgeMental said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkGVjAl6Z74&t=486s

Link

Tarantul-class Corvette Ivanovets Sunk By Ukrainian Marine Drones in Crimea!

Suchomimus

Those gas-turbine exhausts in the stern do make such lovely infra-red targets for surface drones, don’t they?

Interesting that one of the drones aims straight into the hole made by the previous drone.

My inexperienced landlubber arse would have thought that an extra hole elsewhere would have been more likely to sink the ship.

What up with that, Capn?

goes in deeper to hit the vitals.

Reply Quote

Date: 2/02/2024 20:07:00
From: Ian
ID: 2120936
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


JudgeMental said:

captain_spalding said:

Apparently, Ukraine didn’t sink a Russian ‘Tarantul’ class missile corvette in recent days.

Wookie will be along soon to tell us that the video here:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-02/ukraine-claims-says-sea-drones-sank-russian-ship-in-black-sea/103421062

does not show any such ship being stalked, struck, damaged, listing, or sinking.

And to presumably make sarcastic remarks about how Australian forces should be deployed in strength in the Ukrainian fight.

The usual.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkGVjAl6Z74&t=486s

Link

Tarantul-class Corvette Ivanovets Sunk By Ukrainian Marine Drones in Crimea!

Suchomimus

Those gas-turbine exhausts in the stern do make such lovely infra-red targets for surface drones, don’t they?

Bluey Zarzov?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/02/2024 09:18:36
From: roughbarked
ID: 2121026
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


captain_spalding said:

JudgeMental said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkGVjAl6Z74&t=486s

Link

Tarantul-class Corvette Ivanovets Sunk By Ukrainian Marine Drones in Crimea!

Suchomimus

Those gas-turbine exhausts in the stern do make such lovely infra-red targets for surface drones, don’t they?

Interesting that one of the drones aims straight into the hole made by the previous drone.

My inexperienced landlubber arse would have thought that an extra hole elsewhere would have been more likely to sink the ship.

What up with that, Capn?

Easy entry to the interior. Past all the amour plating.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/02/2024 09:32:46
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2121032
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:


Kingy said:

captain_spalding said:

Those gas-turbine exhausts in the stern do make such lovely infra-red targets for surface drones, don’t they?

Interesting that one of the drones aims straight into the hole made by the previous drone.

My inexperienced landlubber arse would have thought that an extra hole elsewhere would have been more likely to sink the ship.

What up with that, Capn?

Easy entry to the interior. Past all the amour plating.

Well, few ships these days have much in the way of armour, and ships the size and type of the ‘Tarantul’- class corvette Ivanovets would certainly have none.

In nearly all ships these days, there’s only 6- 7 mm of steel between you and the deep blue sea.

Steering an explosives-laden drone into the hole made by the first one is meant to enlarge and ‘deepen’ the damage. The hull plating has clearly been severely compromised, and the framing of the hull in that area has surely been damaged/weakened, and surrounding parts of it are now bearing a greater load from the ship’s own hull, and from the weight of the water that’s flooded in, than before.

Another big explosion there will compound that strain and weakening, further damage the ships systems and piping that pass through that area, and enlarge the opening. This can make the damage control problem magnitudes worse. What you ‘still had working’ a minute ago is not working now.

In more brutal terms, it may also be that some of the ship’s damage control team, attending to the earlier damage, will be killed or incapacitated, further weakening the ship’s ability to contain the damage.

It’s a war. If you can hit the ship, job well done. If you can hit the ship where it’s already hurting, so much the better.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/02/2024 09:34:56
From: roughbarked
ID: 2121033
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


roughbarked said:

Kingy said:

Interesting that one of the drones aims straight into the hole made by the previous drone.

My inexperienced landlubber arse would have thought that an extra hole elsewhere would have been more likely to sink the ship.

What up with that, Capn?

Easy entry to the interior. Past all the amour plating.

Well, few ships these days have much in the way of armour, and ships the size and type of the ‘Tarantul’- class corvette Ivanovets would certainly have none.

In nearly all ships these days, there’s only 6- 7 mm of steel between you and the deep blue sea.

Steering an explosives-laden drone into the hole made by the first one is meant to enlarge and ‘deepen’ the damage. The hull plating has clearly been severely compromised, and the framing of the hull in that area has surely been damaged/weakened, and surrounding parts of it are now bearing a greater load from the ship’s own hull, and from the weight of the water that’s flooded in, than before.

Another big explosion there will compound that strain and weakening, further damage the ships systems and piping that pass through that area, and enlarge the opening. This can make the damage control problem magnitudes worse. What you ‘still had working’ a minute ago is not working now.

In more brutal terms, it may also be that some of the ship’s damage control team, attending to the earlier damage, will be killed or incapacitated, further weakening the ship’s ability to contain the damage.

It’s a war. If you can hit the ship, job well done. If you can hit the ship where it’s already hurting, so much the better.

Trust Marine drones? Sure thing.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/02/2024 09:40:34
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2121034
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:

Trust Marine drones? Sure thing.

It’s reminiscent of 120 years ago, when everyone was worried about torpedoes, and how to stop them hitting your ships.

They came up with ant-torpedo nets, hung on booms that extended from the sides of the larger ships, meant to stop/explode the torpedoes before they reached the ship.

After years of labouring with them, they were abandoned as ineffective, extremely awkward and labour-intensive, and highly deleterious to ship’s speed and movement.

I wonder if we’ll see them have a revival, of sorts?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/02/2024 09:42:22
From: roughbarked
ID: 2121035
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


roughbarked said:

Trust Marine drones? Sure thing.

It’s reminiscent of 120 years ago, when everyone was worried about torpedoes, and how to stop them hitting your ships.

They came up with ant-torpedo nets, hung on booms that extended from the sides of the larger ships, meant to stop/explode the torpedoes before they reached the ship.

After years of labouring with them, they were abandoned as ineffective, extremely awkward and labour-intensive, and highly deleterious to ship’s speed and movement.

I wonder if we’ll see them have a revival, of sorts?

Maybe if Russia has enough ships left to protect.

Reply Quote

Date: 8/02/2024 00:57:12
From: Kingy
ID: 2122787
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

“Zelensky instructed the Cabinet of Ministers and the General Staff to create a new kind of army.

❗️ The new structure will be the Forces of Unmanned Systems of the Armed Forces.”

The future is here, old man!

Reply Quote

Date: 8/02/2024 01:32:06
From: roughbarked
ID: 2122788
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


“Zelensky instructed the Cabinet of Ministers and the General Staff to create a new kind of army.

❗️ The new structure will be the Forces of Unmanned Systems of the Armed Forces.”

The future is here, old man!

FUSAF.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/02/2024 13:17:53
From: dv
ID: 2123747
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/08/media/vladimir-putin-tucker-carlson-interview-reliable-sources/index.html

Putin walks away with propaganda victory after Tucker Carlson’s softball interview

CNN
It’s evident now why Vladimir Putin granted an interview to Tucker Carlson.

Over the course of the more than two-hour sit-down, the former Fox News host turned online commentator largely refrained from challenging the Russian authoritarian, whose brutal war on Ukraine has led to the needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. Those expecting a hard-hitting face-off will have surely walked away sorely disappointed by the long-winded and rambling interview, in which Tucker himself at times appeared lost.

Instead of pressing Putin on the many topics at hand, including credible accusations Russia has committed war crimes and the imprisonment of opposition leader Alexei Navalny, Carlson allowed the autocrat a free lane to manipulate the public and tell his version of history, no matter how deceptive it may have been. At times, between the airing of grievances, Putin appeared to school Carlson on historical events as the host looked on in bewilderment. Or to put it more plainly, Carlson provided Putin a platform to spread his propaganda to a global audience with little to no scrutiny of his claims.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/02/2024 13:25:12
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 2123750
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:


https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/08/media/vladimir-putin-tucker-carlson-interview-reliable-sources/index.html

Putin walks away with propaganda victory after Tucker Carlson’s softball interview

CNN
It’s evident now why Vladimir Putin granted an interview to Tucker Carlson.

Over the course of the more than two-hour sit-down, the former Fox News host turned online commentator largely refrained from challenging the Russian authoritarian, whose brutal war on Ukraine has led to the needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. Those expecting a hard-hitting face-off will have surely walked away sorely disappointed by the long-winded and rambling interview, in which Tucker himself at times appeared lost.

Instead of pressing Putin on the many topics at hand, including credible accusations Russia has committed war crimes and the imprisonment of opposition leader Alexei Navalny, Carlson allowed the autocrat a free lane to manipulate the public and tell his version of history, no matter how deceptive it may have been. At times, between the airing of grievances, Putin appeared to school Carlson on historical events as the host looked on in bewilderment. Or to put it more plainly, Carlson provided Putin a platform to spread his propaganda to a global audience with little to no scrutiny of his claims.

I don’t think anyone with a given name of Tucker would be able to speak a foreign language, so how was the interview conducted.
Did Putin speak English?

Reply Quote

Date: 10/02/2024 13:32:56
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 2123756
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Peak Warming Man said:


dv said:

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/08/media/vladimir-putin-tucker-carlson-interview-reliable-sources/index.html

Putin walks away with propaganda victory after Tucker Carlson’s softball interview

CNN
It’s evident now why Vladimir Putin granted an interview to Tucker Carlson.

Over the course of the more than two-hour sit-down, the former Fox News host turned online commentator largely refrained from challenging the Russian authoritarian, whose brutal war on Ukraine has led to the needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. Those expecting a hard-hitting face-off will have surely walked away sorely disappointed by the long-winded and rambling interview, in which Tucker himself at times appeared lost.

Instead of pressing Putin on the many topics at hand, including credible accusations Russia has committed war crimes and the imprisonment of opposition leader Alexei Navalny, Carlson allowed the autocrat a free lane to manipulate the public and tell his version of history, no matter how deceptive it may have been. At times, between the airing of grievances, Putin appeared to school Carlson on historical events as the host looked on in bewilderment. Or to put it more plainly, Carlson provided Putin a platform to spread his propaganda to a global audience with little to no scrutiny of his claims.

I don’t think anyone with a given name of Tucker would be able to speak a foreign language, so how was the interview conducted.
Did Putin speak English?

Yes and with a heavy russian accent.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/02/2024 13:38:09
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2123761
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bogsnorkler said:


Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/08/media/vladimir-putin-tucker-carlson-interview-reliable-sources/index.html

Putin walks away with propaganda victory after Tucker Carlson’s softball interview

CNN
It’s evident now why Vladimir Putin granted an interview to Tucker Carlson.

Over the course of the more than two-hour sit-down, the former Fox News host turned online commentator largely refrained from challenging the Russian authoritarian, whose brutal war on Ukraine has led to the needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. Those expecting a hard-hitting face-off will have surely walked away sorely disappointed by the long-winded and rambling interview, in which Tucker himself at times appeared lost.

Instead of pressing Putin on the many topics at hand, including credible accusations Russia has committed war crimes and the imprisonment of opposition leader Alexei Navalny, Carlson allowed the autocrat a free lane to manipulate the public and tell his version of history, no matter how deceptive it may have been. At times, between the airing of grievances, Putin appeared to school Carlson on historical events as the host looked on in bewilderment. Or to put it more plainly, Carlson provided Putin a platform to spread his propaganda to a global audience with little to no scrutiny of his claims.

I don’t think anyone with a given name of Tucker would be able to speak a foreign language, so how was the interview conducted.
Did Putin speak English?

Yes and with a heavy russian accent.

He may speak English but I think he used a translator for this interview.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/02/2024 13:38:46
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2123763
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Witty Rejoinder said:


Bogsnorkler said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I don’t think anyone with a given name of Tucker would be able to speak a foreign language, so how was the interview conducted.
Did Putin speak English?

Yes and with a heavy russian accent.

He may speak English but I think he used a translator for this interview.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xaj1mhg5eo

Reply Quote

Date: 10/02/2024 13:50:00
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2123773
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bogsnorkler said:


Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/08/media/vladimir-putin-tucker-carlson-interview-reliable-sources/index.html

Putin walks away with propaganda victory after Tucker Carlson’s softball interview

CNN
It’s evident now why Vladimir Putin granted an interview to Tucker Carlson.

Over the course of the more than two-hour sit-down, the former Fox News host turned online commentator largely refrained from challenging the Russian authoritarian, whose brutal war on Ukraine has led to the needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. Those expecting a hard-hitting face-off will have surely walked away sorely disappointed by the long-winded and rambling interview, in which Tucker himself at times appeared lost.

Instead of pressing Putin on the many topics at hand, including credible accusations Russia has committed war crimes and the imprisonment of opposition leader Alexei Navalny, Carlson allowed the autocrat a free lane to manipulate the public and tell his version of history, no matter how deceptive it may have been. At times, between the airing of grievances, Putin appeared to school Carlson on historical events as the host looked on in bewilderment. Or to put it more plainly, Carlson provided Putin a platform to spread his propaganda to a global audience with little to no scrutiny of his claims.

I don’t think anyone with a given name of Tucker would be able to speak a foreign language, so how was the interview conducted.
Did Putin speak English?

Yes and with a heavy russian accent.

Apparently, Putin criticised Poland for having signed a treaty with Germany in 1934.

However, he neglected to mention the agreement signed by Russia and Germany in 1939, and the dividing up of Poland between Russia and Germany after both Russian and German troops invaded Poland, and by which Germany ‘sold’ parts of Lithuania to Russia for a cash payment.

But, oh, those Poles, are they not just the worst?!

Reply Quote

Date: 11/02/2024 16:17:58
From: Kingy
ID: 2124162
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

It appears Putin is sending tanks into Ukraine with some “history”. These are images of (left) a T-55 tank that was knocked out in Ukraine & (right) the same tank used in the 1956 invasion of Hungary.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/02/2024 21:18:23
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2125510
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Those Ukrainians have been at it again:

Russia was forced to stage a major sea rescue operation after the sinking of another of Vladimir Putin’s warships off the southern coast of annexed Crimea.

The GUR Ukrainian military intelligence said it had stuck the ship with several marine drones, successfully sinking it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13081669/Ukraine-sinks-Putin-warship-Crimea-Russia.html

Reply Quote

Date: 14/02/2024 22:30:50
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 2125525
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


Those Ukrainians have been at it again:

Russia was forced to stage a major sea rescue operation after the sinking of another of Vladimir Putin’s warships off the southern coast of annexed Crimea.

The GUR Ukrainian military intelligence said it had stuck the ship with several marine drones, successfully sinking it.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13081669/Ukraine-sinks-Putin-warship-Crimea-Russia.html


Take that Pootin.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/02/2024 23:05:43
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 2125528
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Black Sea fleet getting smaller.

Reply Quote

Date: 14/02/2024 23:07:17
From: party_pants
ID: 2125529
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Tau.Neutrino said:


Black Sea fleet getting smaller.

It is the nature of war. Stuff gets broken.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/02/2024 23:01:11
From: dv
ID: 2126204
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/16/europe/alexey-navalny-dead-russia-prison-intl/index.html

Jailed Russian opposition figure and outspoken Kremlin critic Alexey Navalny, who made global headlines when he was poisoned with a nerve agent in 2020, has died aged 47, the Russian prison service said.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/02/2024 23:13:49
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 2126206
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:


https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/16/europe/alexey-navalny-dead-russia-prison-intl/index.html

Jailed Russian opposition figure and outspoken Kremlin critic Alexey Navalny, who made global headlines when he was poisoned with a nerve agent in 2020, has died aged 47, the Russian prison service said.

Do they know what his motive was,

Reply Quote

Date: 16/02/2024 23:15:52
From: Kingy
ID: 2126207
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:


https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/16/europe/alexey-navalny-dead-russia-prison-intl/index.html

Jailed Russian opposition figure and outspoken Kremlin critic Alexey Navalny, who made global headlines when he was poisoned with a nerve agent in 2020, has died aged 47, the Russian prison service said.

Has died of torture and poisoning, and beating, and strangling, and thirst, and defying the dictator, and posting things that defy “reality”.

A report has been provided to the coroner and he has apparently died of “natural” causes. How sad.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/02/2024 23:24:31
From: dv
ID: 2126213
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Peak Warming Man said:


dv said:

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/16/europe/alexey-navalny-dead-russia-prison-intl/index.html

Jailed Russian opposition figure and outspoken Kremlin critic Alexey Navalny, who made global headlines when he was poisoned with a nerve agent in 2020, has died aged 47, the Russian prison service said.

Do they know what his motive was,

What

Reply Quote

Date: 16/02/2024 23:28:23
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 2126217
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:


Peak Warming Man said:

dv said:

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/16/europe/alexey-navalny-dead-russia-prison-intl/index.html

Jailed Russian opposition figure and outspoken Kremlin critic Alexey Navalny, who made global headlines when he was poisoned with a nerve agent in 2020, has died aged 47, the Russian prison service said.

Do they know what his motive was,

What

Its what Russians ask when someone important dies unexpectantly.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/02/2024 23:35:57
From: Bubblecar
ID: 2126220
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:


https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/16/europe/alexey-navalny-dead-russia-prison-intl/index.html

Jailed Russian opposition figure and outspoken Kremlin critic Alexey Navalny, who made global headlines when he was poisoned with a nerve agent in 2020, has died aged 47, the Russian prison service said.

Fell out of a barred window I expect. Clearly an escape attempt.

Reply Quote

Date: 17/02/2024 00:40:02
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2126239
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

dv said:


https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/16/europe/alexey-navalny-dead-russia-prison-intl/index.html

Jailed Russian opposition figure and outspoken Kremlin critic Alexey Navalny, who made global headlines when he was poisoned with a nerve agent in 2020, has died aged 47, the Russian prison service said.

He was a fool to return to Russia and place himself in the hands of Putin. Did he expect the system would welcome him back and treat him fairly, the only thing he achieved was the certainty of a pointless death.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/02/2024 11:29:52
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2128131
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Not only do Russian tanks blow up in exactly the same way that their tanks did in WW2, the Russian military still behaves as if it’s fighting WW2.

Russian troops were assembled for inspection in an open field 32km/20 miles from the front line.

Of course, they were seen by a Ukrainian drone, and received a direct hit from Ukrainian missiles/artillery almost immediately.

Then, the very next day, Russian troops were again assembled out in the open for a similar purpose, at a similar distance from the front.

And they received a similar direct hit.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/02/21/twice-in-two-days-russian-troops-gathered-in-the-open-for-inspection-twice-in-two-days-ukrainian-rockets-rained-down/?sh=5fcdcadd2f87

WARNING: IMAGES OF VIOLENCE/DEATH.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2024 19:15:10
From: Kingy
ID: 2128952
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Killer drones pioneered in Ukraine are the weapons of the future, they are reshaping the balance between humans and technology in war – The Economist.

One of the key points that The Economist emphasizes is that Ukrainian drones are ushering in a new era in military confrontation. These cost-effective drones have changed the balance of power on the battlefield. Previously, expensive and high-tech weapons were considered the advantage of wealthy countries, but now Ukrainian drones demonstrate that affordability and efficiency can be on the side of those who are ready to innovate, the publication notes.

The Economist highlights that this revolution in military technology also raises questions about control and ethics. With the rise of mass-produced drones, there is a need to find ways to control and authorize their use. How will humans control a battlefield where self-coordinating swarms of drones are operating?

In addition, the publication points out that Ukrainian drones carry important trends in the development of military technology. This is not only a revolution in availability and efficiency, but also a change in warfare strategies. “Kalashnikovs in the skies” is what the publication called Ukrainian drones, which, according to the editorial board, symbolize a new era where technologies and weapons are becoming more balanced and affordable.

“America and its allies must prepare for a world in which rapidly improving military capabilities spread more quickly and more widely. As the skies over Ukraine fill with expendable weapons that marry precision and firepower, they serve as a warning. Mass-produced hunter-killer aircraft are already reshaping the balance between humans and technology in war,” the publication summarizes.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2024 19:30:43
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2128959
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:

“America and its allies must prepare for a world in which rapidly improving military capabilities spread more quickly and more widely. As the skies over Ukraine fill with expendable weapons that marry precision and firepower, they serve as a warning. Mass-produced hunter-killer aircraft are already reshaping the balance between humans and technology in war,” the publication summarizes.

I saw this coming like 10 -11 years ago. When drones, especially small drones, cheap drones began to be popular.

It was instantly obvious that, once real-time cameras could be put on them, battlefield surveillance would become just about ubiquitous. As evidenced in the story i linked to the other day, about Russian troops assembling for inspection out in the open, 20 miles behind the front line. A Ukrainian drone saw them, and they promptly received a direct hit from a Ukrainian missile.

Fit them with cameras and other sensors (infra-red, low-light imaging etc.), and arm them (grenades, automatic firearms), as has already been done, and you have, essentially, a front-line soldier who has absolutely no fear of being killed or wounded, no concern for his/her/its own survival.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2024 21:55:30
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2129000
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


Kingy said:

“America and its allies must prepare for a world in which rapidly improving military capabilities spread more quickly and more widely. As the skies over Ukraine fill with expendable weapons that marry precision and firepower, they serve as a warning. Mass-produced hunter-killer aircraft are already reshaping the balance between humans and technology in war,” the publication summarizes.

I saw this coming like 10 -11 years ago. When drones, especially small drones, cheap drones began to be popular.

It was instantly obvious that, once real-time cameras could be put on them, battlefield surveillance would become just about ubiquitous. As evidenced in the story i linked to the other day, about Russian troops assembling for inspection out in the open, 20 miles behind the front line. A Ukrainian drone saw them, and they promptly received a direct hit from a Ukrainian missile.

Fit them with cameras and other sensors (infra-red, low-light imaging etc.), and arm them (grenades, automatic firearms), as has already been done, and you have, essentially, a front-line soldier who has absolutely no fear of being killed or wounded, no concern for his/her/its own survival.


It the beginning of the conflict i’d see Ukrainian footage of a drone dropping a grenade on some lone russian soldier – accompanied with glee. The russians realised and stepped up their own drone production. Now you see larger drones holding RPGs and them flying into bunkers in trenches no one survives. The other footage is the russians dropping not grenades but a specialised munition to be dropped from a drone – at the beginning this munitions was small and perhaps caused light wounding. Yesterday I watched as a russian drone dropped a bomb – the fragmentation potential has been stepped up , the bomb is far more dangerous even being near the explosion invites severe wounds, if the bomb drops on you or very near you it can tear you apart.

My feeling is that in the future you’ll find drones that are built specifically to hold RPGs, make 10,000 of them and you could swarm into cities taking out rooms in buildings. No man or machine would be safe , no trench or harbour can be truly safe. Add wings on it instead and you’d have aerial barrages of RPG glide bombs slamming into all manner of infrastructure. Needless to say the age of the tank will truly be over.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2024 22:10:02
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2129005
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


captain_spalding said:

Kingy said:

“America and its allies must prepare for a world in which rapidly improving military capabilities spread more quickly and more widely. As the skies over Ukraine fill with expendable weapons that marry precision and firepower, they serve as a warning. Mass-produced hunter-killer aircraft are already reshaping the balance between humans and technology in war,” the publication summarizes.

I saw this coming like 10 -11 years ago. When drones, especially small drones, cheap drones began to be popular.

It was instantly obvious that, once real-time cameras could be put on them, battlefield surveillance would become just about ubiquitous. As evidenced in the story i linked to the other day, about Russian troops assembling for inspection out in the open, 20 miles behind the front line. A Ukrainian drone saw them, and they promptly received a direct hit from a Ukrainian missile.

Fit them with cameras and other sensors (infra-red, low-light imaging etc.), and arm them (grenades, automatic firearms), as has already been done, and you have, essentially, a front-line soldier who has absolutely no fear of being killed or wounded, no concern for his/her/its own survival.


It the beginning of the conflict i’d see Ukrainian footage of a drone dropping a grenade on some lone russian soldier – accompanied with glee. The russians realised and stepped up their own drone production. Now you see larger drones holding RPGs and them flying into bunkers in trenches no one survives. The other footage is the russians dropping not grenades but a specialised munition to be dropped from a drone – at the beginning this munitions was small and perhaps caused light wounding. Yesterday I watched as a russian drone dropped a bomb – the fragmentation potential has been stepped up , the bomb is far more dangerous even being near the explosion invites severe wounds, if the bomb drops on you or very near you it can tear you apart.

My feeling is that in the future you’ll find drones that are built specifically to hold RPGs, make 10,000 of them and you could swarm into cities taking out rooms in buildings. No man or machine would be safe , no trench or harbour can be truly safe. Add wings on it instead and you’d have aerial barrages of RPG glide bombs slamming into all manner of infrastructure. Needless to say the age of the tank will truly be over.

It’s a war and the drone is similar in stealth to the U-boats of WWII that dominated in the beginning, but as defenses were devised the were hunted to near extinction. Drones currently dominate the skies, but they will be currently working on better, cheaper and easy ways to destroy them before they can reach their target. They are just too effective to allow small scale armies to dominate the battlefield.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2024 22:50:30
From: party_pants
ID: 2129025
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

PermeateFree said:


wookiemeister said:

captain_spalding said:

I saw this coming like 10 -11 years ago. When drones, especially small drones, cheap drones began to be popular.

It was instantly obvious that, once real-time cameras could be put on them, battlefield surveillance would become just about ubiquitous. As evidenced in the story i linked to the other day, about Russian troops assembling for inspection out in the open, 20 miles behind the front line. A Ukrainian drone saw them, and they promptly received a direct hit from a Ukrainian missile.

Fit them with cameras and other sensors (infra-red, low-light imaging etc.), and arm them (grenades, automatic firearms), as has already been done, and you have, essentially, a front-line soldier who has absolutely no fear of being killed or wounded, no concern for his/her/its own survival.


It the beginning of the conflict i’d see Ukrainian footage of a drone dropping a grenade on some lone russian soldier – accompanied with glee. The russians realised and stepped up their own drone production. Now you see larger drones holding RPGs and them flying into bunkers in trenches no one survives. The other footage is the russians dropping not grenades but a specialised munition to be dropped from a drone – at the beginning this munitions was small and perhaps caused light wounding. Yesterday I watched as a russian drone dropped a bomb – the fragmentation potential has been stepped up , the bomb is far more dangerous even being near the explosion invites severe wounds, if the bomb drops on you or very near you it can tear you apart.

My feeling is that in the future you’ll find drones that are built specifically to hold RPGs, make 10,000 of them and you could swarm into cities taking out rooms in buildings. No man or machine would be safe , no trench or harbour can be truly safe. Add wings on it instead and you’d have aerial barrages of RPG glide bombs slamming into all manner of infrastructure. Needless to say the age of the tank will truly be over.

It’s a war and the drone is similar in stealth to the U-boats of WWII that dominated in the beginning, but as defenses were devised the were hunted to near extinction. Drones currently dominate the skies, but they will be currently working on better, cheaper and easy ways to destroy them before they can reach their target. They are just too effective to allow small scale armies to dominate the battlefield.

I think that some kind of fragmenting round would do the trick against drones. Pretty much a large shot-gun round of say 12.5mm – 30mm size. Initially fired as a solid round but something that will break apart mid-air and form a dense cloud of shrapnel.

Such weapons are probably banned, as i know shot-guns are. There is also no guarantee that a weapon of this style will not be used against enemy soldiers in ground combat in the heat of battle. But I think that Rubicon will be crossed soon enough.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2024 23:00:11
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 2129026
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


PermeateFree said:

wookiemeister said:

It the beginning of the conflict i’d see Ukrainian footage of a drone dropping a grenade on some lone russian soldier – accompanied with glee. The russians realised and stepped up their own drone production. Now you see larger drones holding RPGs and them flying into bunkers in trenches no one survives. The other footage is the russians dropping not grenades but a specialised munition to be dropped from a drone – at the beginning this munitions was small and perhaps caused light wounding. Yesterday I watched as a russian drone dropped a bomb – the fragmentation potential has been stepped up , the bomb is far more dangerous even being near the explosion invites severe wounds, if the bomb drops on you or very near you it can tear you apart.

My feeling is that in the future you’ll find drones that are built specifically to hold RPGs, make 10,000 of them and you could swarm into cities taking out rooms in buildings. No man or machine would be safe , no trench or harbour can be truly safe. Add wings on it instead and you’d have aerial barrages of RPG glide bombs slamming into all manner of infrastructure. Needless to say the age of the tank will truly be over.

It’s a war and the drone is similar in stealth to the U-boats of WWII that dominated in the beginning, but as defenses were devised the were hunted to near extinction. Drones currently dominate the skies, but they will be currently working on better, cheaper and easy ways to destroy them before they can reach their target. They are just too effective to allow small scale armies to dominate the battlefield.

I think that some kind of fragmenting round would do the trick against drones. Pretty much a large shot-gun round of say 12.5mm – 30mm size. Initially fired as a solid round but something that will break apart mid-air and form a dense cloud of shrapnel.

Such weapons are probably banned, as i know shot-guns are. There is also no guarantee that a weapon of this style will not be used against enemy soldiers in ground combat in the heat of battle. But I think that Rubicon will be crossed soon enough.

shotguns aren’t banned.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2024 23:08:37
From: party_pants
ID: 2129027
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bogsnorkler said:


party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

It’s a war and the drone is similar in stealth to the U-boats of WWII that dominated in the beginning, but as defenses were devised the were hunted to near extinction. Drones currently dominate the skies, but they will be currently working on better, cheaper and easy ways to destroy them before they can reach their target. They are just too effective to allow small scale armies to dominate the battlefield.

I think that some kind of fragmenting round would do the trick against drones. Pretty much a large shot-gun round of say 12.5mm – 30mm size. Initially fired as a solid round but something that will break apart mid-air and form a dense cloud of shrapnel.

Such weapons are probably banned, as i know shot-guns are. There is also no guarantee that a weapon of this style will not be used against enemy soldiers in ground combat in the heat of battle. But I think that Rubicon will be crossed soon enough.

shotguns aren’t banned.

OK. All done then.

Let’s get to work developing such a round, and make an unethical profit by selling them to Ukraine by the milliard.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/02/2024 23:24:13
From: Kingy
ID: 2129031
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


PermeateFree said:

wookiemeister said:

It the beginning of the conflict i’d see Ukrainian footage of a drone dropping a grenade on some lone russian soldier – accompanied with glee. The russians realised and stepped up their own drone production. Now you see larger drones holding RPGs and them flying into bunkers in trenches no one survives. The other footage is the russians dropping not grenades but a specialised munition to be dropped from a drone – at the beginning this munitions was small and perhaps caused light wounding. Yesterday I watched as a russian drone dropped a bomb – the fragmentation potential has been stepped up , the bomb is far more dangerous even being near the explosion invites severe wounds, if the bomb drops on you or very near you it can tear you apart.

My feeling is that in the future you’ll find drones that are built specifically to hold RPGs, make 10,000 of them and you could swarm into cities taking out rooms in buildings. No man or machine would be safe , no trench or harbour can be truly safe. Add wings on it instead and you’d have aerial barrages of RPG glide bombs slamming into all manner of infrastructure. Needless to say the age of the tank will truly be over.

It’s a war and the drone is similar in stealth to the U-boats of WWII that dominated in the beginning, but as defenses were devised the were hunted to near extinction. Drones currently dominate the skies, but they will be currently working on better, cheaper and easy ways to destroy them before they can reach their target. They are just too effective to allow small scale armies to dominate the battlefield.

I think that some kind of fragmenting round would do the trick against drones. Pretty much a large shot-gun round of say 12.5mm – 30mm size. Initially fired as a solid round but something that will break apart mid-air and form a dense cloud of shrapnel.

Such weapons are probably banned, as i know shot-guns are. There is also no guarantee that a weapon of this style will not be used against enemy soldiers in ground combat in the heat of battle. But I think that Rubicon will be crossed soon enough.

The drones are constantly transmitting video, I’m surprised that there aren’t “cheap” radio homing rounds yet.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/02/2024 10:25:50
From: roughbarked
ID: 2129125
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bogsnorkler said:


party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

It’s a war and the drone is similar in stealth to the U-boats of WWII that dominated in the beginning, but as defenses were devised the were hunted to near extinction. Drones currently dominate the skies, but they will be currently working on better, cheaper and easy ways to destroy them before they can reach their target. They are just too effective to allow small scale armies to dominate the battlefield.

I think that some kind of fragmenting round would do the trick against drones. Pretty much a large shot-gun round of say 12.5mm – 30mm size. Initially fired as a solid round but something that will break apart mid-air and form a dense cloud of shrapnel.

Such weapons are probably banned, as i know shot-guns are. There is also no guarantee that a weapon of this style will not be used against enemy soldiers in ground combat in the heat of battle. But I think that Rubicon will be crossed soon enough.

shotguns aren’t banned.

Only those which can fire multiple rounds are.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/02/2024 10:27:12
From: roughbarked
ID: 2129126
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

party_pants said:


Bogsnorkler said:

party_pants said:

I think that some kind of fragmenting round would do the trick against drones. Pretty much a large shot-gun round of say 12.5mm – 30mm size. Initially fired as a solid round but something that will break apart mid-air and form a dense cloud of shrapnel.

Such weapons are probably banned, as i know shot-guns are. There is also no guarantee that a weapon of this style will not be used against enemy soldiers in ground combat in the heat of battle. But I think that Rubicon will be crossed soon enough.

shotguns aren’t banned.

OK. All done then.

Let’s get to work developing such a round, and make an unethical profit by selling them to Ukraine by the milliard.

They already use such explosive rounds in shotguns as bird scarer’s all they need is to put some shot in the firecracker.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/02/2024 10:50:31
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2129128
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Just use snow making machines you fools.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/02/2024 12:47:44
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 2129168
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:


Bogsnorkler said:

party_pants said:

I think that some kind of fragmenting round would do the trick against drones. Pretty much a large shot-gun round of say 12.5mm – 30mm size. Initially fired as a solid round but something that will break apart mid-air and form a dense cloud of shrapnel.

Such weapons are probably banned, as i know shot-guns are. There is also no guarantee that a weapon of this style will not be used against enemy soldiers in ground combat in the heat of battle. But I think that Rubicon will be crossed soon enough.

shotguns aren’t banned.

Only those which can fire multiple rounds are.

what like a double barrelled? I mean this is a meaningless response. The US use pump action that hold 6 to 8 rounds. Most armies don’t use shotguns because of their limited range and bulky ammunition.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/02/2024 12:54:54
From: roughbarked
ID: 2129172
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bogsnorkler said:


roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

shotguns aren’t banned.

Only those which can fire multiple rounds are.

what like a double barrelled? I mean this is a meaningless response. The US use pump action that hold 6 to 8 rounds. Most armies don’t use shotguns because of their limited range and bulky ammunition.

I did mean pump actions and I did mean multiples of more than two.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 08:28:00
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2129665
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

First Abrams tanks start burning on the eastern front

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:06:09
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2129666
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


First Abrams tanks start burning on the eastern front

Like i’ve said before:

No-one ever claimed that they’re indestructible

No military ever fought a war and didn’t lose major items of equipment

The destruction of Abrams tanks is entirely to be expected.

One difference is, they burn. They don’t usually get hit, and almost immediately try to launch their turrets into Earth-orbit.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:08:21
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2129667
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


wookiemeister said:

First Abrams tanks start burning on the eastern front

Like i’ve said before:

No-one ever claimed that they’re indestructible

No military ever fought a war and didn’t lose major items of equipment

The destruction of Abrams tanks is entirely to be expected.

One difference is, they burn. They don’t usually get hit, and almost immediately try to launch their turrets into Earth-orbit.


And they’re cheaper than fighter planes which Russia lost 7 of this past month.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:09:37
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2129668
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/02/19/sukhoi-massacre-ukraine-has-shot-down-six-of-russias-best-jets-in-just-three-days/?sh=1f370fb3655f

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:22:00
From: roughbarked
ID: 2129669
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Witty Rejoinder said:


https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/02/19/sukhoi-massacre-ukraine-has-shot-down-six-of-russias-best-jets-in-just-three-days/?sh=1f370fb3655f

At $4m per shot. It is an expensive game. It does cost the Russians a whole lot more per SU-35.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:25:57
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2129671
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


wookiemeister said:

First Abrams tanks start burning on the eastern front

Like i’ve said before:

No-one ever claimed that they’re indestructible

No military ever fought a war and didn’t lose major items of equipment

The destruction of Abrams tanks is entirely to be expected.

One difference is, they burn. They don’t usually get hit, and almost immediately try to launch their turrets into Earth-orbit.


I’m fairly sure there were people here telling me Abram’s would never be sent to Ukraine. The passage of time I guess.

There’s an issue with an air filter I believe with Abram’s, if you don’t change it after 100 hrs ( or similar) and it’s cactus. In a battle zone crews will probably forget this

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:26:07
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2129672
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

ABC News:

Well, Putin’s invasion of Ukraine seems to have achieved yet another milestone on its way to achieving the goal of making NATO less of a ‘threat’ to Russia.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:27:41
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2129674
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


ABC News:

Well, Putin’s invasion of Ukraine seems to have achieved yet another milestone on its way to achieving the goal of making NATO less of a ‘threat’ to Russia.


Sweden has already been sending weapons to ukraine, I was footage of one of their artillery systems going up in smoke half an hour ago

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:29:34
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 2129676
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Witty Rejoinder said:


https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/02/19/sukhoi-massacre-ukraine-has-shot-down-six-of-russias-best-jets-in-just-three-days/?sh=1f370fb3655f

plus another awacs.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:29:40
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2129677
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

The purpose of NATO was always to take on Russia/ soviet union.

I wonder if trump is going to pull the plug on NATO

He reckoned he’d end the war in 24 hours, pull out of NATO and western gets left holding the bag

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:30:09
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2129678
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:

I’m fairly sure there were people here telling me Abram’s would never be sent to Ukraine. The passage of time I guess.

There’s an issue with an air filter I believe with Abram’s, if you don’t change it after 100 hrs ( or similar) and it’s cactus. In a battle zone crews will probably forget this

I don’t recall any such assurances about Abrams not going to Ukraine from anyone here, but there you go.

Quite possibly, a lot of people would have, if it seemed necessary, assured you that you wouldn’t find Indians fighting for Russia in Ukraine, but there you go again:

As for the air filter thing: most armies have a few blokes in overalls who look after the mechanical needs of tanks and vehicles, and keep track of what they need.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:30:35
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2129679
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bogsnorkler said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/02/19/sukhoi-massacre-ukraine-has-shot-down-six-of-russias-best-jets-in-just-three-days/?sh=1f370fb3655f

plus another awacs.


They reckon the ghost of Kiev got them

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:31:59
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2129680
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Air-filter changes aren’t a problem for Russian tanks, as they rarely survive 100 hours in a combat zone.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:33:03
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2129681
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


wookiemeister said:

I’m fairly sure there were people here telling me Abram’s would never be sent to Ukraine. The passage of time I guess.

There’s an issue with an air filter I believe with Abram’s, if you don’t change it after 100 hrs ( or similar) and it’s cactus. In a battle zone crews will probably forget this

I don’t recall any such assurances about Abrams not going to Ukraine from anyone here, but there you go.

Quite possibly, a lot of people would have, if it seemed necessary, assured you that you wouldn’t find Indians fighting for Russia in Ukraine, but there you go again:

As for the air filter thing: most armies have a few blokes in overalls who look after the mechanical needs of tanks and vehicles, and keep track of what they need.


Yes but not at the front, the drones would get them. My overall feeling is that they keep these people far from harm. The abrams aren’t meant to be maintained, they’ll be destroyed before the time for maintenance comes up.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:34:18
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2129682
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


Air-filter changes aren’t a problem for Russian tanks, as they rarely survive 100 hours in a combat zone.

Likewise the Leopards and Abram’s

Difference is the russians have large tank factories and the tanks evolve all the time, then there’s the matter of tens of thousands of cold war stock.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:35:45
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2129683
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

The russian tank factories were Hitler’s complaint

Lucky we still have our tank factories

Oh

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:37:48
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 2129684
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

oh dear he’s gone click happy. again.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:42:08
From: kii
ID: 2129686
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Speaking of NATO, Sweden has got approval now. Hungary has said yes.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:42:19
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2129687
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Its probably why russia never went down the reusable rocket path like spaceX.

They just pump out rockets on a regular basis, the supply lines keep flowing

There would be an advantage of continually upgrading a particular model, making components lighter then installing it on the next launch, replacing parts cautiously

The tank factories might work in a similar way. They replace parts, use different armour, install new more relevant equipment

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:42:56
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 2129688
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:

I don’t recall any such assurances about Abrams not going to Ukraine from anyone here, but there you go.

just the usual skite trying to show how good he is.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:43:35
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2129689
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

kii said:


Speaking of NATO, Sweden has got approval now. Hungary has said yes.

Kii rubs her hands together

All those straight , priviledged , white males going to their deaths

I’m on to you kii

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:45:50
From: kii
ID: 2129690
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


kii said:

Speaking of NATO, Sweden has got approval now. Hungary has said yes.

Kii rubs her hands together

All those straight , priviledged , white males going to their deaths

I’m on to you kii

No, fuckhead.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:48:10
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2129691
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bogsnorkler said:


captain_spalding said:

I don’t recall any such assurances about Abrams not going to Ukraine from anyone here, but there you go.

just the usual skite trying to show how good he is.


Just think

When Australia gets involved in this war you’ll never have running tap water again. No more click click on the keyboard for you – no more power.

Australia has always fought enemies far away ( they then bring huge numbers of refugees caused by their wars into Australia, stupid right ? It’s different when you fight more advanced civilisations instead of backward natives in a desert.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:48:57
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2129692
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

kii said:


wookiemeister said:

kii said:

Speaking of NATO, Sweden has got approval now. Hungary has said yes.

Kii rubs her hands together

All those straight , priviledged , white males going to their deaths

I’m on to you kii

No, fuckhead.


As I said

I’m on to you kii

I’ve been watching this poison seep into people’s minds for years.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:52:48
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2129693
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

What’s always amazing is the disconnect from reality

The Ukrainian front is collapsing again, uko losses are something like 1000 men a day. The russian drones are becoming more numerous and more advanced. The tanks keep pouring out of the tank factories in the east.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:55:48
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2129694
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

The rot started in 1991 with the collapse of the soviet union, the expectation of us proles is that NATO would be dissolved and a new era of peace and prosperity would ensue – wrong, NATO launched a new war in thevME against Saddam Hussein. New enemies were found, new countries were found to wage war in.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:55:55
From: kii
ID: 2129695
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


kii said:

wookiemeister said:

Kii rubs her hands together

All those straight , priviledged , white males going to their deaths

I’m on to you kii

No, fuckhead.


As I said

I’m on to you kii

I’ve been watching this poison seep into people’s minds for years.

Blah blah blah 🙄

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:57:30
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2129696
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

kii said:


wookiemeister said:

kii said:

No, fuckhead.


As I said

I’m on to you kii

I’ve been watching this poison seep into people’s minds for years.

Blah blah blah 🙄


You can scream if you want to block it all out

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 09:58:58
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2129697
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Unlike in the movies, people never wake up

Reply Quote

Date: 27/02/2024 10:35:46
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2129709
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


What’s always amazing is the disconnect from reality

The Ukrainian front is collapsing again, uko losses are something like 1000 men a day. The russian drones are becoming more numerous and more advanced. The tanks keep pouring out of the tank factories in the east.

Um no…

Reply Quote

Date: 28/02/2024 21:46:00
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 2130202
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAPQU9zNKWc

Link

Ukraine Reports Another Su-34 Shot Down — 10 Aircraft in 12 Days, 7th Su-34

Suchomimus

Reply Quote

Date: 28/02/2024 21:52:49
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 2130206
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bogsnorkler said:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAPQU9zNKWc

Link

Ukraine Reports Another Su-34 Shot Down — 10 Aircraft in 12 Days, 7th Su-34

Suchomimus

Tank force getting smaller.
Navy getting smaller.
Airforce getting smaller.
Army getting smaller.

I see a trend.

Reply Quote

Date: 29/02/2024 19:11:45
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 2130649
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPBFvLGC-BM

Link

Another Su-34 Shot Down Over Ukraine – Plus Satellite Imagery of Su-34/Su35 Crash Sites

Reply Quote

Date: 29/02/2024 19:14:17
From: Bubblecar
ID: 2130651
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bogsnorkler said:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPBFvLGC-BM

Link

Another Su-34 Shot Down Over Ukraine – Plus Satellite Imagery of Su-34/Su35 Crash Sites

Good.

Reply Quote

Date: 29/02/2024 19:21:51
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2130654
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bubblecar said:


Bogsnorkler said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPBFvLGC-BM

Link

Another Su-34 Shot Down Over Ukraine – Plus Satellite Imagery of Su-34/Su35 Crash Sites

Good.

Hope the pilot got out OK.

Reply Quote

Date: 29/02/2024 19:30:45
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 2130655
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


Bubblecar said:

Bogsnorkler said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPBFvLGC-BM

Link

Another Su-34 Shot Down Over Ukraine – Plus Satellite Imagery of Su-34/Su35 Crash Sites

Good.

Hope the pilot got out OK.

What have you done with CS Diddly?!?

Reply Quote

Date: 29/02/2024 19:33:58
From: Bubblecar
ID: 2130656
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Witty Rejoinder said:


captain_spalding said:

Bubblecar said:

Good.

Hope the pilot got out OK.

What have you done with CS Diddly?!?

I too have nothing against the pilot safely becoming a POW.

Reply Quote

Date: 29/02/2024 19:35:58
From: Bubblecar
ID: 2130658
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bubblecar said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

captain_spalding said:

Hope the pilot got out OK.

What have you done with CS Diddly?!?

I too have nothing against the pilot safely becoming a POW.

Для вас війна закінчилася….

(For you, the war is over…)

Reply Quote

Date: 29/02/2024 19:38:31
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 2130660
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


Bubblecar said:

Bogsnorkler said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPBFvLGC-BM

Link

Another Su-34 Shot Down Over Ukraine – Plus Satellite Imagery of Su-34/Su35 Crash Sites

Good.

Hope the pilot got out OK.

it was shot down over russian territory so if they got out OK they’ll be flying again after they regain their original height.

Reply Quote

Date: 29/02/2024 19:43:24
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2130661
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bogsnorkler said:

it was shot down over russian territory so if they got out OK they’ll be flying again after they regain their original height.

When i was getting taught about ejection seats, the teaching was that practically no-one walks away from an ejection without some kind of injury.

Also, that aviators could readily be expected to endure one ejection without crippling damage, two ejections with considerable damage (cumulative on the stress/damage from the first one), but three ejections…

Reply Quote

Date: 1/03/2024 02:08:50
From: sarahs mum
ID: 2130745
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-29/putin-warns-west-of-risk-of-nuclear-war-says-moscow-can-strike/103530920

Reply Quote

Date: 7/03/2024 10:47:42
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 2132641
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Russian Navy now smaller.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/03/2024 11:09:22
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 2132645
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Tau.Neutrino said:


Russian Navy now smaller.

The Russian missile-corvette Sergei Kotov is now at the bottom of the sea.

Thanks to a Ukrainian Magura V5 sea drone.

It’s full Title

Maritime Autonomous Guard Unmanned Robotic Apparatus V-type.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/03/2024 11:21:14
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 2132646
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Russian Navy now smaller.

The Russian missile-corvette Sergei Kotov is now at the bottom of the sea.

Thanks to a Ukrainian Magura V5 sea drone.

It’s full Title

Maritime Autonomous Guard Unmanned Robotic Apparatus V-type.

The remaining Russian sailors in the black Sea must be nervous.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/03/2024 12:01:06
From: roughbarked
ID: 2132649
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Russian Navy now smaller.

The Russian missile-corvette Sergei Kotov is now at the bottom of the sea.

Thanks to a Ukrainian Magura V5 sea drone.

It’s full Title

Maritime Autonomous Guard Unmanned Robotic Apparatus V-type.

The remaining Russian sailors in the black Sea must be nervous.


If they develop a torpedo version, the Russians wouldn’t be able to see it coming.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/03/2024 12:35:11
From: Michael V
ID: 2132656
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Russian Navy now smaller.

The Russian missile-corvette Sergei Kotov is now at the bottom of the sea.

Thanks to a Ukrainian Magura V5 sea drone.

It’s full Title

Maritime Autonomous Guard Unmanned Robotic Apparatus V-type.

Magura makes motorcycle and bicycle parts in Germany. My Zundapp Bella had a Magura twist grip

Reply Quote

Date: 7/03/2024 12:37:20
From: roughbarked
ID: 2132658
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Michael V said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Russian Navy now smaller.

The Russian missile-corvette Sergei Kotov is now at the bottom of the sea.

Thanks to a Ukrainian Magura V5 sea drone.

It’s full Title

Maritime Autonomous Guard Unmanned Robotic Apparatus V-type.

Magura makes motorcycle and bicycle parts in Germany. My Zundapp Bella had a Magura twist grip

https://www.magura.com/

Reply Quote

Date: 7/03/2024 13:31:27
From: Ian
ID: 2132663
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Russian Navy now smaller.

The Russian missile-corvette Sergei Kotov is now at the bottom of the sea.

Thanks to a Ukrainian Magura V5 sea drone.

It’s full Title

Maritime Autonomous Guard Unmanned Robotic Apparatus V-type.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=lJ2ZyvZq4nxah7cQ&v=pfwvz43QYxU&feature=youtu.be

Catchy af number

Reply Quote

Date: 7/03/2024 13:39:48
From: roughbarked
ID: 2132665
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Ian said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Russian Navy now smaller.

The Russian missile-corvette Sergei Kotov is now at the bottom of the sea.

Thanks to a Ukrainian Magura V5 sea drone.

It’s full Title

Maritime Autonomous Guard Unmanned Robotic Apparatus V-type.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=lJ2ZyvZq4nxah7cQ&v=pfwvz43QYxU&feature=youtu.be

Catchy af number

Liked the audio track.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/03/2024 13:43:04
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 2132666
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrZgEDFUrTY

Link

RUSSIAN SAILORS TRYING TO DEFEND THE SHIP FROM UKRAINIAN DRONES

Not the latest ship to be sunk. The last landing ship that was attacked and sunk.

Reply Quote

Date: 7/03/2024 13:47:44
From: Bogsnorkler
ID: 2132667
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Bogsnorkler said:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrZgEDFUrTY

Link

RUSSIAN SAILORS TRYING TO DEFEND THE SHIP FROM UKRAINIAN DRONES

Not the latest ship to be sunk. The last landing ship that was attacked and sunk.

Caesar Kunikov

Reply Quote

Date: 9/03/2024 17:01:29
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 2133326
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

What Does Sweden’s NATO Membership Mean for Russia?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ryi5qZvUhYI

Reply Quote

Date: 9/03/2024 17:03:04
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 2133327
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Tau.Neutrino said:


What Does Sweden’s NATO Membership Mean for Russia?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ryi5qZvUhYI

Hey Putin, how’s the Baltic sea going?

Reply Quote

Date: 10/03/2024 20:53:54
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2133782
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Ukrainian air-defense losses in the last 2 week

P-18 radar
S-300 launcher and command centre
P-18 radar
NASAMS launcher
S-300 launcher
Buk-M1
Buk-M1 battery
S-300 launcher and command post
P-18 radar
ST-68U radar
2 Patriot launchers

Reply Quote

Date: 10/03/2024 20:58:32
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2133785
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


Ukrainian air-defense losses in the last 2 week

P-18 radar
S-300 launcher and command centre
P-18 radar
NASAMS launcher
S-300 launcher
Buk-M1
Buk-M1 battery
S-300 launcher and command post
P-18 radar
ST-68U radar
2 Patriot launchers


Presumably the radar system is a more important target, no radar no lock on. The command vehicle might be we well hidden , the missile carrier might well be numerous and well hidden – the radar system advertises itself.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/03/2024 21:01:23
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 2133786
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Russia has lost 424,060 troops
6,731 tanks,
12,850 armored fighting vehicles,
13,752 vehicles and fuel tanks,
10,466 artillery systems,
1,015 multiple launch rocket systems,
709 air defense systems,
347 airplanes,
325 helicopters, 8,082 drones,
26 ships and boats,
1 submarine.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/03/2024 21:12:36
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2133788
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Tau.Neutrino said:


Russia has lost 424,060 troops
6,731 tanks,
12,850 armored fighting vehicles,
13,752 vehicles and fuel tanks,
10,466 artillery systems,
1,015 multiple launch rocket systems,
709 air defense systems,
347 airplanes,
325 helicopters, 8,082 drones,
26 ships and boats,
1 submarine.

And yet strangely – they still advance.

Reply Quote

Date: 10/03/2024 21:56:23
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 2133803
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Tau.Neutrino said:


Russia has lost 424,060 troops
6,731 tanks,
12,850 armored fighting vehicles,
13,752 vehicles and fuel tanks,
10,466 artillery systems,
1,015 multiple launch rocket systems,
709 air defense systems,
347 airplanes,
325 helicopters, 8,082 drones,
26 ships and boats,
1 submarine.

Where did the numbers come from?

All I could find were highly speculative estimates, from about 100,000 upwards.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2024 07:34:31
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2133925
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

The Rev Dodgson said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Russia has lost 424,060 troops
6,731 tanks,
12,850 armored fighting vehicles,
13,752 vehicles and fuel tanks,
10,466 artillery systems,
1,015 multiple launch rocket systems,
709 air defense systems,
347 airplanes,
325 helicopters, 8,082 drones,
26 ships and boats,
1 submarine.

Where did the numbers come from?

All I could find were highly speculative estimates, from about 100,000 upwards.


Russia ‘destroys two $400m Patriot surface-to-air missile systems’ https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13179327/Dramatic-moment-Russians-destroys-two-400m-Patriot-surface-air-missile-systems-one-hypersonic-Iskander-strike-costly-blow-Ukraine.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2024 07:40:58
From: roughbarked
ID: 2133928
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Russia has lost 424,060 troops
6,731 tanks,
12,850 armored fighting vehicles,
13,752 vehicles and fuel tanks,
10,466 artillery systems,
1,015 multiple launch rocket systems,
709 air defense systems,
347 airplanes,
325 helicopters, 8,082 drones,
26 ships and boats,
1 submarine.

Where did the numbers come from?

All I could find were highly speculative estimates, from about 100,000 upwards.


Russia ‘destroys two $400m Patriot surface-to-air missile systems’ https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13179327/Dramatic-moment-Russians-destroys-two-400m-Patriot-surface-air-missile-systems-one-hypersonic-Iskander-strike-costly-blow-Ukraine.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

and how much dd the hypersonic missile cost? Despite the fact that nobody. Not even Putin would put two patriots where one missile could do them in.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2024 07:41:46
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2133929
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

The russians have footage of Ukrainian soldiers executing wounded russian soldiers with a shot to the head as they laid incapacitated.

If they think there’s any negotiation now , not a chance

There’s other footage of uko troops shooting people on the back. You put the muzzle into the back near the shoulder blade and it shoots into the heart. The operator looks as if he’s practiced in this, the victim falls forward.

My guesses is the west will officially pour troops into ukraine , maybe. If they mass their troops on the border the russians will warn them ( get out of europe) then strike first. First strike will be against the major cities of France, Germany, Britain and into the guts of all NATO countries with any real teeth

First strike maybe 200 million people to another 200 million over the next week.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2024 07:43:06
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2133931
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:


wookiemeister said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Where did the numbers come from?

All I could find were highly speculative estimates, from about 100,000 upwards.


Russia ‘destroys two $400m Patriot surface-to-air missile systems’ https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13179327/Dramatic-moment-Russians-destroys-two-400m-Patriot-surface-air-missile-systems-one-hypersonic-Iskander-strike-costly-blow-Ukraine.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

and how much dd the hypersonic missile cost? Despite the fact that nobody. Not even Putin would put two patriots where one missile could do them in.


Its ok roughie the russians have thousands of these things, they won’t mind using one

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2024 07:43:08
From: roughbarked
ID: 2133932
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


The russians have footage of Ukrainian soldiers executing wounded russian soldiers with a shot to the head as they laid incapacitated.

If they think there’s any negotiation now , not a chance

There’s other footage of uko troops shooting people on the back. You put the muzzle into the back near the shoulder blade and it shoots into the heart. The operator looks as if he’s practiced in this, the victim falls forward.

My guesses is the west will officially pour troops into ukraine , maybe. If they mass their troops on the border the russians will warn them ( get out of europe) then strike first. First strike will be against the major cities of France, Germany, Britain and into the guts of all NATO countries with any real teeth

First strike maybe 200 million people to another 200 million over the next week.

Listen. Forget this bullshit.

It ain’t ever gunna happen.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2024 07:44:59
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2133933
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

My guesses

The russians will strike pine gap with a nuke to make sure

Satellite system and undersea internet gies dark

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2024 07:45:57
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2133934
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:


wookiemeister said:

The russians have footage of Ukrainian soldiers executing wounded russian soldiers with a shot to the head as they laid incapacitated.

If they think there’s any negotiation now , not a chance

There’s other footage of uko troops shooting people on the back. You put the muzzle into the back near the shoulder blade and it shoots into the heart. The operator looks as if he’s practiced in this, the victim falls forward.

My guesses is the west will officially pour troops into ukraine , maybe. If they mass their troops on the border the russians will warn them ( get out of europe) then strike first. First strike will be against the major cities of France, Germany, Britain and into the guts of all NATO countries with any real teeth

First strike maybe 200 million people to another 200 million over the next week.

Listen. Forget this bullshit.

It ain’t ever gunna happen.


In a nuclear conflict the first strike is critical

London will have around 120s warning

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2024 07:46:35
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2133935
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Gone

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2024 07:52:24
From: roughbarked
ID: 2133937
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

Russia ‘destroys two $400m Patriot surface-to-air missile systems’ https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13179327/Dramatic-moment-Russians-destroys-two-400m-Patriot-surface-air-missile-systems-one-hypersonic-Iskander-strike-costly-blow-Ukraine.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

and how much dd the hypersonic missile cost? Despite the fact that nobody. Not even Putin would put two patriots where one missile could do them in.


Its ok roughie the russians have thousands of these things, they won’t mind using one

I am quite sure that they don’t have thousands. At the best maybe 199.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2024 07:52:47
From: roughbarked
ID: 2133938
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


My guesses

The russians will strike pine gap with a nuke to make sure

Satellite system and undersea internet gies dark

They don’t have one that will get here.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2024 07:53:30
From: roughbarked
ID: 2133939
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

The russians have footage of Ukrainian soldiers executing wounded russian soldiers with a shot to the head as they laid incapacitated.

If they think there’s any negotiation now , not a chance

There’s other footage of uko troops shooting people on the back. You put the muzzle into the back near the shoulder blade and it shoots into the heart. The operator looks as if he’s practiced in this, the victim falls forward.

My guesses is the west will officially pour troops into ukraine , maybe. If they mass their troops on the border the russians will warn them ( get out of europe) then strike first. First strike will be against the major cities of France, Germany, Britain and into the guts of all NATO countries with any real teeth

First strike maybe 200 million people to another 200 million over the next week.

Listen. Forget this bullshit.

It ain’t ever gunna happen.


In a nuclear conflict the first strike is critical

London will have around 120s warning

It still ain’t gunna happen.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2024 07:53:44
From: roughbarked
ID: 2133940
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


Gone

Good.

Reply Quote

Date: 11/03/2024 08:40:24
From: roughbarked
ID: 2133955
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

roughbarked said:


wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

and how much dd the hypersonic missile cost? Despite the fact that nobody. Not even Putin would put two patriots where one missile could do them in.


Its ok roughie the russians have thousands of these things, they won’t mind using one

I am quite sure that they don’t have thousands. At the best maybe 199.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/vikrammittal/2023/05/31/a-costly-delay-the-eight-month-pause-in-russian-hypersonic-missile-usage/
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/3/10/what-are-the-hypersonic-missiles-russia-is-using-in-ukraine
https://gjia.georgetown.edu/2019/12/12/russias-hypersonic-weapons/

Reply Quote

Date: 16/03/2024 21:58:10
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 2135843
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Any thoughts on the downfall of Putin?

Plane
Window
Car shooting
Artic Prison

Reply Quote

Date: 16/03/2024 22:32:26
From: Kingy
ID: 2135850
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Tau.Neutrino said:


Any thoughts on the downfall of Putin?

Plane
Window
Car shooting
Artic Prison

A long slow torturous death in a Siberian gulag would still be better than he deserves.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/03/2024 22:33:09
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 2135851
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Tau.Neutrino said:


Any thoughts on the downfall of Putin?

Plane
Window
Car shooting
Artic Prison

Train explosion over tall bridge .

An explosion on the Scheherazade superyacht sinking into deep sea?

Reply Quote

Date: 16/03/2024 22:36:18
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 2135852
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Any thoughts on the downfall of Putin?

Plane
Window
Car shooting
Artic Prison

A long slow torturous death in a Siberian gulag would still be better than he deserves.

Devoured by that creature in the sand in star wars over a thousand years.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/03/2024 22:41:42
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 2135854
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Any thoughts on the downfall of Putin?

Plane
Window
Car shooting
Artic Prison

Train explosion over tall bridge .

An explosion on the Scheherazade superyacht sinking into deep sea?

Elevator accident.

Reply Quote

Date: 16/03/2024 22:59:27
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 2135856
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Any thoughts on the downfall of Putin?

Plane
Window
Car shooting
Artic Prison

Train explosion over tall bridge .

An explosion on the Scheherazade superyacht sinking into deep sea?

Elevator accident.

Stair accident.

Cliff accident……

Reply Quote

Date: 16/03/2024 23:26:47
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 2135858
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Tau.Neutrino said:


Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Train explosion over tall bridge .

An explosion on the Scheherazade superyacht sinking into deep sea?

Elevator accident.

Stair accident.

Cliff accident……


He escapes into space in his personal Buran shuttle ship to secret Russian space station MIR 3.
Unfortunately he bought rats with him on the Buran that began eating all the cables on both the Buran and MIR 3 causing orbit failure and fast burn up on re-entry.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/03/2024 01:04:36
From: Kingy
ID: 2139632
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Modern war continues to evolve.

“Ukrainians put 8,000 cellphones connected to microphones on 6-foot poles around the country to detect incoming Russian drones. They detected 84/84 and shot down 80 of them with AA guns. Cost: $500ea”

Reply Quote

Date: 28/03/2024 08:27:09
From: Michael V
ID: 2139643
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


Modern war continues to evolve.

“Ukrainians put 8,000 cellphones connected to microphones on 6-foot poles around the country to detect incoming Russian drones. They detected 84/84 and shot down 80 of them with AA guns. Cost: $500ea”

Nice one.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/03/2024 08:38:45
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2139644
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Michael V said:


Kingy said:

Modern war continues to evolve.

“Ukrainians put 8,000 cellphones connected to microphones on 6-foot poles around the country to detect incoming Russian drones. They detected 84/84 and shot down 80 of them with AA guns. Cost: $500ea”

Nice one.

Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.

Reply Quote

Date: 28/03/2024 09:08:16
From: Tau.Neutrino
ID: 2139649
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Kingy said:


Modern war continues to evolve.

“Ukrainians put 8,000 cellphones connected to microphones on 6-foot poles around the country to detect incoming Russian drones. They detected 84/84 and shot down 80 of them with AA guns. Cost: $500ea”

Pity the cellphones can’t ring the drones and tell them to go home.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/04/2024 23:56:43
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2146342
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

27 Ukrainian militants surrendered during the week;

The Eastern Group of the Russian Armed Forces in the South Donetsk direction improved its tactical position and defeated 6 Ukrainian brigades during the week;

The Central Group of the Russian Armed Forces in the Avdeevka direction continued to advance deep into the AFU defences;

The AFU lost up to 365 troops in the direction of Kherson during the week;

The Russian Armed Forces launched 34 group attacks on Ukrainian military and energy infrastructure during the week;

590 Ukrainian aircraft have been destroyed since the beginning of the special military operation;

The AFU lost up to 760 military personnel in the direction of south Donetsk during the week;

Russian forces destroyed three AFU Mig-29s and four An-26s during the week;

AFU losses in the Donetsk direction exceeded 3,550 military personnel during the week; 31 artillery guns and 7 ammunition depots were also hit;

The Russian Armed Forces in the Kupyansk direction improved their position on the front line during the week, repulsing 11 AFU counter-attacks;

The Russian Armed Forces destroyed four S-300 launchers and one IRIS-T launcher during the week;

The AFU in the direction of Avdeevka lost 2,170 soldiers, 7 tanks, 13 armoured fighting vehicles during the week;

The AFU in the Kupyansk direction lost more than 380 soldiers during the week;

Russian aviation and air defence intercepted 10 ATACMS missiles, 6 Storm Shadow missiles and 1,278 AFU UAVs during the week.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/04/2024 02:07:20
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2146353
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:

27 Ukrainian militants surrendered during the week;

The Eastern Group of the Russian Armed Forces in the South Donetsk direction improved its tactical position and defeated 6 Ukrainian brigades during the week;

The Central Group of the Russian Armed Forces in the Avdeevka direction continued to advance deep into the AFU defences;

The AFU lost up to 365 troops in the direction of Kherson during the week;

The Russian Armed Forces launched 34 group attacks on Ukrainian military and energy infrastructure during the week;

590 Ukrainian aircraft have been destroyed since the beginning of the special military operation;

The AFU lost up to 760 military personnel in the direction of south Donetsk during the week;

Russian forces destroyed three AFU Mig-29s and four An-26s during the week;

AFU losses in the Donetsk direction exceeded 3,550 military personnel during the week; 31 artillery guns and 7 ammunition depots were also hit;

The Russian Armed Forces in the Kupyansk direction improved their position on the front line during the week, repulsing 11 AFU counter-attacks;

The Russian Armed Forces destroyed four S-300 launchers and one IRIS-T launcher during the week;

The AFU in the direction of Avdeevka lost 2,170 soldiers, 7 tanks, 13 armoured fighting vehicles during the week;

The AFU in the Kupyansk direction lost more than 380 soldiers during the week;

Russian aviation and air defence intercepted 10 ATACMS missiles, 6 Storm Shadow missiles and 1,278 AFU UAVs during the week.

And that is straight from the Kremlin.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/04/2024 07:56:13
From: roughbarked
ID: 2146375
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

PermeateFree said:


wookiemeister said:

27 Ukrainian militants surrendered during the week;

The Eastern Group of the Russian Armed Forces in the South Donetsk direction improved its tactical position and defeated 6 Ukrainian brigades during the week;

The Central Group of the Russian Armed Forces in the Avdeevka direction continued to advance deep into the AFU defences;

The AFU lost up to 365 troops in the direction of Kherson during the week;

The Russian Armed Forces launched 34 group attacks on Ukrainian military and energy infrastructure during the week;

590 Ukrainian aircraft have been destroyed since the beginning of the special military operation;

The AFU lost up to 760 military personnel in the direction of south Donetsk during the week;

Russian forces destroyed three AFU Mig-29s and four An-26s during the week;

AFU losses in the Donetsk direction exceeded 3,550 military personnel during the week; 31 artillery guns and 7 ammunition depots were also hit;

The Russian Armed Forces in the Kupyansk direction improved their position on the front line during the week, repulsing 11 AFU counter-attacks;

The Russian Armed Forces destroyed four S-300 launchers and one IRIS-T launcher during the week;

The AFU in the direction of Avdeevka lost 2,170 soldiers, 7 tanks, 13 armoured fighting vehicles during the week;

The AFU in the Kupyansk direction lost more than 380 soldiers during the week;

Russian aviation and air defence intercepted 10 ATACMS missiles, 6 Storm Shadow missiles and 1,278 AFU UAVs during the week.

And that is straight from the Kremlin.

Propaganda.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2024 06:31:43
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2147062
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

61 billion dollars to be injected into the war in ukraine

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2024 08:16:29
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2147075
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:


61 billion dollars to be injected into the war in ukraine

I bet that went over big in the Kremlin.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2024 08:29:42
From: JudgeMental
ID: 2147079
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

I see the “Texan” has been killed by the orcs. Sup with the devil and all that.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2024 08:39:18
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2147080
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

¡¡¡ $$ BUY BUY BUY $$ !!!

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2024 09:05:09
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2147084
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

SCIENCE said:

¡¡¡ $$ BUY BUY BUY $$ !!!

Unfortunately, defending your democratic country against invasion by neighbouring predatory dictatorships run by criminals doesn’t come cheap.

It’s said that oil is the blood of modern warfare, but money is the oxygen that’s needed to keep it working.

‘Financing’ someone else’s war is not a new idea, nor would most people find fault with every example. Where would Britain have been in WW2 without Roosevelt’s Lend-Lease programme, when materiel was provided in vast quantities against just the promise of later repayment? The US provided equipment and machinery to Britain for a good couple of years, before the US was drawn into direct participation in the war.

$61 billion is not chicken-feed, and it’s bound to aggravate Putin’s headache. Just last week, Russian troops were withdrawn from Nagorno-Karabakh, abandoning their supporters there, and quite possibly because the Russians need those troops in Ukraine. $61 billion is going to help Ukraine resist, perhaps until even that desperate boost by the Russians is exhausted.

Reply Quote

Date: 22/04/2024 09:14:38
From: roughbarked
ID: 2147088
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

captain_spalding said:


wookiemeister said:

61 billion dollars to be injected into the war in ukraine

I bet that went over big in the Kremlin.

The Kremlin warned that passage of the bill would “further ruin” Ukraine and cause more deaths.
6m ago
While Ukraine was relieved to hear

Reply Quote

Date: 25/04/2024 09:05:53
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2148040
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Right.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/04/2024 09:07:43
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 2148042
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

SCIENCE said:

Right.


lol

Reply Quote

Date: 25/04/2024 09:16:16
From: party_pants
ID: 2148043
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

SCIENCE said:

Right.


It is not a secret any longer.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/04/2024 15:12:23
From: dv
ID: 2148215
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

SCIENCE said:

Right.


1945, US donates high energy munitions to Japan

Reply Quote

Date: 25/04/2024 17:31:05
From: wookiemeister
ID: 2148287
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

Russian break out along the eastern front.

Strikes ramping up against infrastructure

Strikes against Russian oil infrastructure – expect those massive gas reserves of the EU in western ukraine to go up in flames.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/04/2024 17:47:02
From: captain_spalding
ID: 2148300
Subject: re: Ukraine liberation news

wookiemeister said:

Strikes against Russian oil infrastructure – expect those massive gas reserves of the EU in western ukraine to go up in flames.

Quite possibly.

On the other hand, those massive gas reserves in western Ukraine were one of the prize items that tempted Putin to launch the invasion in the first place.

He’d be a bit silly to destroy them now.

Reply Quote