I am seeing ads on the TV recommending vaccination against shingles. This puzzles me a bit, because when I trained, the wisdom was that if you had chicken pox as a child, you were unlikely to have shingles as an adult because you were primed. I just checked my old Merck manual and it says something along the lines the “Herpes simplex tends to recur, but Herpes zoster rarely does”. So sometime in the last 20 years or so, the advice has changed to “anyone who has had chicken pox can get a recurrence as shingles”. I think it was previously, if you get H. zoster as a child it manifests as chicken pox, if you get it as an adult (having not had it as a child) it manifests as shingles. Can anyone place when this was changed?

I’ll do some checking in the literature. But I thought I’d put it up here because I think it’s Quite Interesting.

buffy said:

I am seeing ads on the TV recommending vaccination against shingles. This puzzles me a bit, because when I trained, the wisdom was that if you had chicken pox as a child, you were unlikely to have shingles as an adult because you were primed. I just checked my old Merck manual and it says something along the lines the “Herpes simplex tends to recur, but Herpes zoster rarely does”. So sometime in the last 20 years or so, the advice has changed to “anyone who has had chicken pox can get a recurrence as shingles”. I think it was previously, if you get H. zoster as a child it manifests as chicken pox, if you get it as an adult (having not had it as a child) it manifests as shingles. Can anyone place when this was changed?

I’ll do some checking in the literature. But I thought I’d put it up here because I think it’s Quite Interesting.

Back in the day, it was thought that if you could catch them within three days, things could be done but after that you had to endure it. However, when I got shingles on my scalp, the doc gave me some pills and they seemed to work but I also had to use a lignocaine antiseptic ointment to really get help and that wasn’t so long ago.. maybe two three years. No one suggested a vaccine.

Well, the NSW government website says what I thought was the case.

>>Who is at risk?

Anyone who has not had chickenpox or been vaccinated in the past can get chickenpox.

People with a past history of chickenpox are likely to be immune to the virus. Even adults with no history of chickenpox have a chance of being immune (because of past infection that was mild). Doctors sometimes perform a blood test to see if these people need a vaccination.<<

From here, (2022): Who is at risk?

Link

long as I remember shingles is the chicken pox virus, hangs around in the body, generally suppressed by the immune system(low level replication I guess) lives in nerve cells, perhaps nerve ending if memory serves, which it may not

other herpes viruses something similar of continued suppression without complete elimination, though some people, perhaps many people may better eliminate it

glandular fever virus similar situation maybe, quite a few others also

possibly optimistic way of seeing it is that to maintain it at low levels of replication can be seen to help immunity, inclines constant surveillance and ready-identification by the immune system

i’ll be an advocate for covid-live-virus-induced-herd-immunity in a moment, gain of dysfunction

transition said:

long as I remember shingles is the chicken pox virus, hangs around in the body, generally suppressed by the immune system(low level replication I guess) lives in nerve cells, perhaps nerve ending if memory serves, which it may not

other herpes viruses something similar of continued suppression without complete elimination, though some people, perhaps many people may better eliminate it

glandular fever virus similar situation maybe, quite a few others also

possibly optimistic way of seeing it is that to maintain it at low levels of replication can be seen to help immunity, inclines constant surveillance and ready-identification by the immune system

i’ll be an advocate for covid-live-virus-induced-herd-immunity in a moment, gain of dysfunction

My daughter has had Covid come home from school and infect the whole family for the third time.

roughbarked said:

transition said:

long as I remember shingles is the chicken pox virus, hangs around in the body, generally suppressed by the immune system(low level replication I guess) lives in nerve cells, perhaps nerve ending if memory serves, which it may not

other herpes viruses something similar of continued suppression without complete elimination, though some people, perhaps many people may better eliminate it

glandular fever virus similar situation maybe, quite a few others also

possibly optimistic way of seeing it is that to maintain it at low levels of replication can be seen to help immunity, inclines constant surveillance and ready-identification by the immune system

i’ll be an advocate for covid-live-virus-induced-herd-immunity in a moment, gain of dysfunction

My daughter has had Covid come home from school and infect the whole family for the third time.

i’m heading for what fifteen months multiple bad encounters and seemingly plenty milder between, left with muscle twitching, or tremors, weird shit that way, tingling related, hard to explain, and gets sore throats unrelated to throat infections, like today after couple busy days, in fact i’d say my entire body feels same as sore throat, they tend to come together, the flu legs, feels a bit like arthritis through my entire body, have that too arthritis felt in upper arms especially, accelerated arthritis, that’ll do

muscle twitching started week five after first covid infection, first infection was early march last year as recall

I mean I was accustomed to occasional muscle twitching, but this was substantially more, and more often, enough to think that’s pretty weird

anyways I stays zen, summon the zen, plenty sleep, power sleeping

no brain fog though, sharp as a razor, either that or I have always been obtuse and wouldn’t notice any change

transition said:

roughbarked said:

transition said:

long as I remember shingles is the chicken pox virus, hangs around in the body, generally suppressed by the immune system(low level replication I guess) lives in nerve cells, perhaps nerve ending if memory serves, which it may not

other herpes viruses something similar of continued suppression without complete elimination, though some people, perhaps many people may better eliminate it

glandular fever virus similar situation maybe, quite a few others also

possibly optimistic way of seeing it is that to maintain it at low levels of replication can be seen to help immunity, inclines constant surveillance and ready-identification by the immune system

i’ll be an advocate for covid-live-virus-induced-herd-immunity in a moment, gain of dysfunction

My daughter has had Covid come home from school and infect the whole family for the third time.

i’m heading for what fifteen months multiple bad encounters and seemingly plenty milder between, left with muscle twitching, or tremors, weird shit that way, tingling related, hard to explain, and gets sore throats unrelated to throat infections, like today after couple busy days, in fact i’d say my entire body feels same as sore throat, they tend to come together, the flu legs, feels a bit like arthritis through my entire body, have that too arthritis felt in upper arms especially, accelerated arthritis, that’ll do

muscle twitching started week five after first covid infection, first infection was early march last year as recall

I mean I was accustomed to occasional muscle twitching, but this was substantially more, and more often, enough to think that’s pretty weird

anyways I stays zen, summon the zen, plenty sleep, power sleeping

no brain fog though, sharp as a razor, either that or I have always been obtuse and wouldn’t notice any change

We wouldn’t have noticed if we could ever comprehend your prose.

We need more medical people here

dv said:

We need more medical people here

Buffy’s not bad at it.
She sparks outside her frames.

To get shingles, you must have had chicken pox at some stage in your life.

I had shingles as a youngin’ around early 30s. Month off work. having said that, I had one chicken pox on my head in grade 3.

The chicken pox virus lays dormant in your nervous system, mainly your spine.

It can reactivate, and travel out along your nerves to the surface where you get shingles blisters and sores again. Stress, low immunity etc or unusual physical exertion can cause the virus to reactivate. I had been crawling very awkwardly around in the roof installing burglar alarm wiring. To begin with, I though it was fleas or mites or something from crawling around inside the roof space.

Very very painful, like someone is wacking you in the back with a baseball bat every time you move. Just the slightest bump in a car ride is agony, and if not cared for correctly, can leave considerable scarring.

In this country you are not allowed to advertise prescription drugs, unlike America. So what they do here, is advertise the condition and “talk to your doctor”.

There has been shingles medication around for a long time, that can be effective if taken quick enough after symptoms occur. This is what I understand they are advertising, not a vaccine.

Herpes Zoster is a result of chicken pox.

Herpes simples is cold sores (mouth and genitals).

That’s my reckoning and knowledge of it all.

Woodie said:

To get shingles, you must have had chicken pox at some stage in your life.

I had shingles as a youngin’ around early 30s. Month off work. having said that, I had one chicken pox on my head in grade 3.

The chicken pox virus lays dormant in your nervous system, mainly your spine.

It can reactivate, and travel out along your nerves to the surface where you get shingles blisters and sores again. Stress, low immunity etc or unusual physical exertion can cause the virus to reactivate. I had been crawling very awkwardly around in the roof installing burglar alarm wiring. To begin with, I though it was fleas or mites or something from crawling around inside the roof space.

Very very painful, like someone is wacking you in the back with a baseball bat every time you move. Just the slightest bump in a car ride is agony, and if not cared for correctly, can leave considerable scarring.

In this country you are not allowed to advertise prescription drugs, unlike America. So what they do here, is advertise the condition and “talk to your doctor”.

There has been shingles medication around for a long time, that can be effective if taken quick enough after symptoms occur. This is what I understand they are advertising, not a vaccine.

Herpes Zoster is a result of chicken pox.

Herpes simples is cold sores (mouth and genitals).

That’s my reckoning and knowledge of it all.

Ta. and that is mine as well.

I had chicken pox as a small child, and then shingles as a teenager.

The chicken pox was worse than the teenage shingles (which involved a chest rash and mild out-of-sorts feeling), and the doctor told me I was lucky to get the shingles at that age as it can be a lot worse later in life.

But then later in life (I think in my 40s or early 50s) I had shingles again, and it wasn’t really much worse than in my teenage years.

So presumably it varies from person to person. But no, having chicken pox as a child certainly doesn’t prevent later shingles.

Bubblecar said:

I had chicken pox as a small child, and then shingles as a teenager.

The chicken pox was worse than the teenage shingles (which involved a chest rash and mild out-of-sorts feeling), and the doctor told me I was lucky to get the shingles at that age as it can be a lot worse later in life.

But then later in life (I think in my 40s or early 50s) I had shingles again, and it wasn’t really much worse than in my teenage years.

So presumably it varies from person to person. But no, having chicken pox as a child certainly doesn’t prevent later shingles.

I suspect what the GP meant was that because I scored the shingles as a teenager, if it returned later in life it would be just as mild.

Bubblecar said:

I had chicken pox as a small child, and then shingles as a teenager.

The chicken pox was worse than the teenage shingles (which involved a chest rash and mild out-of-sorts feeling), and the doctor told me I was lucky to get the shingles at that age as it can be a lot worse later in life.

But then later in life (I think in my 40s or early 50s) I had shingles again, and it wasn’t really much worse than in my teenage years.

So presumably it varies from person to person. But no, having chicken pox as a child certainly doesn’t prevent later shingles.

Correct as in the latter.

Bubblecar said:

Bubblecar said:

I had chicken pox as a small child, and then shingles as a teenager.

The chicken pox was worse than the teenage shingles (which involved a chest rash and mild out-of-sorts feeling), and the doctor told me I was lucky to get the shingles at that age as it can be a lot worse later in life.

But then later in life (I think in my 40s or early 50s) I had shingles again, and it wasn’t really much worse than in my teenage years.

So presumably it varies from person to person. But no, having chicken pox as a child certainly doesn’t prevent later shingles.

I suspect what the GP meant was that because I scored the shingles as a teenager, if it returned later in life it would be just as mild.

Yes.

Bubblecar said:

I had chicken pox as a small child, and then shingles as a teenager.

The chicken pox was worse than the teenage shingles (which involved a chest rash and mild out-of-sorts feeling), and the doctor told me I was lucky to get the shingles at that age as it can be a lot worse later in life.

But then later in life (I think in my 40s or early 50s) I had shingles again, and it wasn’t really much worse than in my teenage years.

So presumably it varies from person to person. But no, having chicken pox as a child certainly doesn’t prevent later shingles.

Although chicken pox is a pre-requisite for shingles.

Woodie said:

Bubblecar said:

I had chicken pox as a small child, and then shingles as a teenager.

The chicken pox was worse than the teenage shingles (which involved a chest rash and mild out-of-sorts feeling), and the doctor told me I was lucky to get the shingles at that age as it can be a lot worse later in life.

But then later in life (I think in my 40s or early 50s) I had shingles again, and it wasn’t really much worse than in my teenage years.

So presumably it varies from person to person. But no, having chicken pox as a child certainly doesn’t prevent later shingles.

Although chicken pox is a pre-requisite for shingles.

Take the although out. simply, it is.

Woodie said:

Bubblecar said:

I had chicken pox as a small child, and then shingles as a teenager.

The chicken pox was worse than the teenage shingles (which involved a chest rash and mild out-of-sorts feeling), and the doctor told me I was lucky to get the shingles at that age as it can be a lot worse later in life.

But then later in life (I think in my 40s or early 50s) I had shingles again, and it wasn’t really much worse than in my teenage years.

So presumably it varies from person to person. But no, having chicken pox as a child certainly doesn’t prevent later shingles.

Although chicken pox is a pre-requisite for shingles.

Seems that the case but buffy was confused.

Commonwealth of Australia Department of Health and Aged Care concurs with Woodie et al:

Shingles is a viral infection that causes a painful, blistering rash. It is caused by the varicella zoster virus, which is the same virus that causes chickenpox. You can only get shingles if you have had chickenpox in the past.

https://www.health.gov.au/diseases/shingles

Bubblecar said:

Woodie said:

Bubblecar said:

I had chicken pox as a small child, and then shingles as a teenager.

The chicken pox was worse than the teenage shingles (which involved a chest rash and mild out-of-sorts feeling), and the doctor told me I was lucky to get the shingles at that age as it can be a lot worse later in life.

But then later in life (I think in my 40s or early 50s) I had shingles again, and it wasn’t really much worse than in my teenage years.

So presumably it varies from person to person. But no, having chicken pox as a child certainly doesn’t prevent later shingles.

Although chicken pox is a pre-requisite for shingles.

Seems that the case but buffy was confused.

Correct me if I am wrong but i believe that buffy was cnfused about a possible vaccine announcement.

That ad has been flogged to death on tele around my parts for months and months now.

Woodie said:

That ad has been flogged to death on tele around my parts for months and months now.

Are you in an antivaxy kind of area?

dv said:

Woodie said:

That ad has been flogged to death on tele around my parts for months and months now.

Are you in an antivaxy kind of area?

He’s adjacent to one. He’s antipasto.

roughbarked said:

Bubblecar said:

Woodie said:

Although chicken pox is a pre-requisite for shingles.

Seems that the case but buffy was confused.

Correct me if I am wrong but i believe that buffy was cnfused about a possible vaccine announcement.

You are wrong. The ad is about a vaccine. The admonition to talk to your doctor is presumably to discuss if you should have it. It is routinely given to children now. Here is the government stuff about it. Looks like it’s for certain people. Perhaps it is being extended now, but for adults this indicates it is only for certain people.

Link

What I am confused about is different information from various sources. Now many media and government websites indicate that if you have had chicken pox you have a risk for shingles. The NSW government one that I quoted in a previous post does not. Previously (quite some years ago, through the 1960s/1970s/1980s) it was considered that childhood chickenpox provided protection against shingles. Not complete protection, but better than not having had it. That is why it was considered a good thing (when there were no vaccines when I was a child) for children to have all those viruses – measles, mumps (guys don’t want mumps as an adult, it can be extremely painful in particular bits of the anatomy), chicken pox (to reduce shingles risk as an adult) and German measles.

I do not contest that you have a risk for shingles as you age. What I cannot find is the risk for folks who had childhood chicken pox or have been vaccinated, compared with the risk for folks who have never had contact with it.

The virus that causes cold sores is also a Herpes virus, and that has always been considered a contender for waking up and causing symptoms again. As I said, in earlier times this was not the case for Varicella.

Perhaps poik may have more information.

Woodie said:

To get shingles, you must have had chicken pox at some stage in your life.

I had shingles as a youngin’ around early 30s. Month off work. having said that, I had one chicken pox on my head in grade 3.

The chicken pox virus lays dormant in your nervous system, mainly your spine.

It can reactivate, and travel out along your nerves to the surface where you get shingles blisters and sores again. Stress, low immunity etc or unusual physical exertion can cause the virus to reactivate. I had been crawling very awkwardly around in the roof installing burglar alarm wiring. To begin with, I though it was fleas or mites or something from crawling around inside the roof space.

Very very painful, like someone is wacking you in the back with a baseball bat every time you move. Just the slightest bump in a car ride is agony, and if not cared for correctly, can leave considerable scarring.

In this country you are not allowed to advertise prescription drugs, unlike America. So what they do here, is advertise the condition and “talk to your doctor”.

There has been shingles medication around for a long time, that can be effective if taken quick enough after symptoms occur. This is what I understand they are advertising, not a vaccine.

Herpes Zoster is a result of chicken pox.

Herpes simples is cold sores (mouth and genitals).

That’s my reckoning and knowledge of it all.

This is my understanding as well. The shingles vaccine is available for free until the end of the year to eligible people, as mum was told.

I thought the point of chickenpox parties as kids was because chickenpox can make adults sterile and/or other nastiness? I know measles can, thought chickenpox did too.

Mini Me has had chickenpox vaccines, which I’m told also prevent shingles later in life ie she won’t need a separate vaccine in adulthood. It’s also my understanding that the chickenpox and shingles vaccines are much the same, but not exactly.

Hopefully poik or Alex can shed some light at some point.

buffy said:

I am seeing ads on the TV recommending vaccination against shingles. This puzzles me a bit, because when I trained, the wisdom was that if you had chicken pox as a child, you were unlikely to have shingles as an adult because you were primed. I just checked my old Merck manual and it says something along the lines the “Herpes simplex tends to recur, but Herpes zoster rarely does”. So sometime in the last 20 years or so, the advice has changed to “anyone who has had chicken pox can get a recurrence as shingles”. I think it was previously, if you get H. zoster as a child it manifests as chicken pox, if you get it as an adult (having not had it as a child) it manifests as shingles. Can anyone place when this was changed?

I’ll do some checking in the literature. But I thought I’d put it up here because I think it’s Quite Interesting.

What

Herpes zoster, commonly known as shingles, is a reactivation of the varicella-zoster virus (VZV) in a person who has previously had varicella (chickenpox). Herpes zoster commonly presents as a painful, self-limiting vesicular rash in a dermatomal distribution.
Who

Zoster vaccines are recommended for:

people aged ≥50 years who are immunocompetent people aged ≥18 years who are immunocompromised people aged ≥50 years who are household contacts of a person who is immunocompromised

How

For Zostavax, a single dose is recommended. For Shingrix, 2 doses are recommended.

There is currently no booster recommendation for either zoster vaccine.
Why

The lifetime risk of reactivation of VZV is about 50%. The risk and severity of outcomes increases with age, affecting half of people who live to 80 years of age. The risk is higher in those who are immunocompromised.

Found it.

https://immunisationhandbook.health.gov.au/recommendations/people-aged-50-years-who-are-immunocompetent-are-recommended-to-receive-a-zoster-vaccine

Oh, I see poik has been in. Do you know when this recommendation came in? As I said, it was conventional wisdom that if you had chicken pox as a child you were a lot less likely to get shingles as an adult, and that was mirrored in the Merck quote I gave. (It’s the 15th edition of Merck, so yes, it’s a while ago. 1987. But sometime since then recommendations have changed)

Found some more information on the vaccine. Apparently it became available in 2006.

https://www.nps.org.au/australian-prescriber/articles/herpes-zoster-vaccination-in-australia-whats-available-and-who-benefits

And yet another question. Why does it say it is caused by reactivation…surely it would be also caused by someone who hadn’t had it before catching the virus?

poikilotherm said:

buffy said:

I am seeing ads on the TV recommending vaccination against shingles. This puzzles me a bit, because when I trained, the wisdom was that if you had chicken pox as a child, you were unlikely to have shingles as an adult because you were primed. I just checked my old Merck manual and it says something along the lines the “Herpes simplex tends to recur, but Herpes zoster rarely does”. So sometime in the last 20 years or so, the advice has changed to “anyone who has had chicken pox can get a recurrence as shingles”. I think it was previously, if you get H. zoster as a child it manifests as chicken pox, if you get it as an adult (having not had it as a child) it manifests as shingles. Can anyone place when this was changed?

I’ll do some checking in the literature. But I thought I’d put it up here because I think it’s Quite Interesting.

What

Herpes zoster, commonly known as shingles, is a reactivation of the varicella-zoster virus (VZV) in a person who has previously had varicella (chickenpox). Herpes zoster commonly presents as a painful, self-limiting vesicular rash in a dermatomal distribution.
Who

Zoster vaccines are recommended for:

people aged ≥50 years who are immunocompetent people aged ≥18 years who are immunocompromised people aged ≥50 years who are household contacts of a person who is immunocompromised

How

For Zostavax, a single dose is recommended. For Shingrix, 2 doses are recommended.

There is currently no booster recommendation for either zoster vaccine.
Why

The lifetime risk of reactivation of VZV is about 50%. The risk and severity of outcomes increases with age, affecting half of people who live to 80 years of age. The risk is higher in those who are immunocompromised.

Thanks.
Mrs rb had shingles inside her lungs. It can be quite nasty in those who are immunocompromised.
I only had it on my acalp which doesn’t sound so bad but I can assure people tthat it wasn’t any fun.
I’ll ask her if she has been given a vaccine for it. She’s had just about every vaccine there is.
No doctor has told me about one.

Not exactly, just the same live virus, different amount.

“A live attenuated vaccine against herpes zoster (Zostavax) was licensed in Australia in 2006. The vaccine contains approximately 14 times more attenuated varicella zoster virus (Oka strain) than the licensed chickenpox vaccines – this higher concentration is needed to produce a T-cell boosting response.”

From the last reference I linked.

You mean there’s a treatment for shingles now?

Back when I had it, there was no suggestion that a treatment was possible.

Mrs m says she was treated for it.

mollwollfumble said:

You mean there’s a treatment for shingles now?

Back when I had it, there was no suggestion that a treatment was possible.

Mrs m says she was treated for it.

Yes, it’s been available for some years now (poik may know how long) but you have to get it within a few hours of the symptoms starting, I think.

buffy said:

mollwollfumble said:

You mean there’s a treatment for shingles now?

Back when I had it, there was no suggestion that a treatment was possible.

Mrs m says she was treated for it.

Yes, it’s been available for some years now (poik may know how long) but you have to get it within a few hours of the symptoms starting, I think.

There’s a preventative vaccine for it, but you have to be 67 y.o. or 70 or something before you can get it.

Before that, you just have to ask yourself, am i feeling lucky?

captain_spalding said:

buffy said:

mollwollfumble said:

You mean there’s a treatment for shingles now?

Back when I had it, there was no suggestion that a treatment was possible.

Mrs m says she was treated for it.

Yes, it’s been available for some years now (poik may know how long) but you have to get it within a few hours of the symptoms starting, I think.

There’s a preventative vaccine for it, but you have to be 67 y.o. or 70 or something before you can get it.

Before that, you just have to ask yourself, am i feeling lucky?

Well are you, punk?

Peak Warming Man said:

captain_spalding said:

buffy said:

Yes, it’s been available for some years now (poik may know how long) but you have to get it within a few hours of the symptoms starting, I think.

There’s a preventative vaccine for it, but you have to be 67 y.o. or 70 or something before you can get it.

Before that, you just have to ask yourself, am i feeling lucky?

Well are you, punk?

Not really.

Got prostate cancer already, so getting shingles about a week before i’m eligible for the vaccine would fit in nicely with my luck.

I started looking for the details because of the ad on the TV and also because Mr buffy recently turned 70 and got notification that he is eligible for the vaccine (for free. You can get it earlier as an adult, but you need a script and you have to pay) He asked me what I think, as he doesn’t know if he had chickenpox as a child. I’m pretty sure he probably did, but also I’m pretty sure that as many years in the ambulance service as he had, he will have had contact with the virus somewhere, sometime. I found him the link I put up before and told him to look at the probabilities and the efficacy and decide. Considering also that we live pretty hermit-like these days.

Here is the link again so you don’t have to go miles back to find it:

Link

buffy said:

I am seeing ads on the TV recommending vaccination against shingles. This puzzles me a bit, because when I trained, the wisdom was that if you had chicken pox as a child, you were unlikely to have shingles as an adult because you were primed. I just checked my old Merck manual and it says something along the lines the “Herpes simplex tends to recur, but Herpes zoster rarely does”. So sometime in the last 20 years or so, the advice has changed to “anyone who has had chicken pox can get a recurrence as shingles”. I think it was previously, if you get H. zoster as a child it manifests as chicken pox, if you get it as an adult (having not had it as a child) it manifests as shingles. Can anyone place when this was changed?

I’ll do some checking in the literature. But I thought I’d put it up here because I think it’s Quite Interesting.

I googled: when was the link between chickenpox and shingles discovered?

https://www.google.com/search?q=when+was+the+link+between+chickenpox+and+shingles+discovered%3F&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBAU815AU815&oq=when+was+the+link+between+chickenpox+and+shingles+discovered%3F&aqs=chrome..69i57.3031j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

It gave me many interesting links, including these two:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4628852/

https://carrington.edu/blog/shingles-and-shingles-zoster-vaccine/

Seems the link first suggested in 1888, was finally proven in 1953, and the mechanism isolated in 1965.

My history: I had chicken pox as a child. I first got shingles in 1980. It was extremely painful, feeling like someone was burning me with an oxy-welding torch and wire brushing the burn. I have had shingles several times since. The last time was here at Rainbow Beach. I was coincidentally seeing the doctor about something else and she asked whether I was otherwise OK. I replied that I was coming down with shingles. After a couple of questions (Have I had shingles before? How long since the pain started?) I was given some tablets which arrested the pain and no pustules occurred. Magic.

I intend to get the vaccine when it becomes free for me next year (age 70).

Mum (72) was told last week by her GP that the govt is raising the age to 75 this October for the free shingles vaccine.

Divine Angel said:

Mum (72) was told last week by her GP that the govt is raising the age to 75 this October for the free shingles vaccine.

So, you have to be under, or over 75 for it to be free?

furious said:

Divine Angel said:

Mum (72) was told last week by her GP that the govt is raising the age to 75 this October for the free shingles vaccine.

So, you have to be under, or over 75 for it to be free?

Over

Divine Angel said:

furious said:

Divine Angel said:

Mum (72) was told last week by her GP that the govt is raising the age to 75 this October for the free shingles vaccine.

So, you have to be under, or over 75 for it to be free?

Over

That’s crazy…

Michael V said:

buffy said:

I am seeing ads on the TV recommending vaccination against shingles. This puzzles me a bit, because when I trained, the wisdom was that if you had chicken pox as a child, you were unlikely to have shingles as an adult because you were primed. I just checked my old Merck manual and it says something along the lines the “Herpes simplex tends to recur, but Herpes zoster rarely does”. So sometime in the last 20 years or so, the advice has changed to “anyone who has had chicken pox can get a recurrence as shingles”. I think it was previously, if you get H. zoster as a child it manifests as chicken pox, if you get it as an adult (having not had it as a child) it manifests as shingles. Can anyone place when this was changed?

I’ll do some checking in the literature. But I thought I’d put it up here because I think it’s Quite Interesting.

I googled: when was the link between chickenpox and shingles discovered?

https://www.google.com/search?q=when+was+the+link+between+chickenpox+and+shingles+discovered%3F&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBAU815AU815&oq=when+was+the+link+between+chickenpox+and+shingles+discovered%3F&aqs=chrome..69i57.3031j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

It gave me many interesting links, including these two:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4628852/

https://carrington.edu/blog/shingles-and-shingles-zoster-vaccine/

Seems the link first suggested in 1888, was finally proven in 1953, and the mechanism isolated in 1965.

My history: I had chicken pox as a child. I first got shingles in 1980. It was extremely painful, feeling like someone was burning me with an oxy-welding torch and wire brushing the burn. I have had shingles several times since. The last time was here at Rainbow Beach. I was coincidentally seeing the doctor about something else and she asked whether I was otherwise OK. I replied that I was coming down with shingles. After a couple of questions (Have I had shingles before? How long since the pain started?) I was given some tablets which arrested the pain and no pustules occurred. Magic.

I intend to get the vaccine when it becomes free for me next year (age 70).

Yes the doctor gave me pills that worked but I also found an antiseptic cream with lignocaine in it. Helped a lot to heal it up.

Divine Angel said:

furious said:

Divine Angel said:

Mum (72) was told last week by her GP that the govt is raising the age to 75 this October for the free shingles vaccine.

So, you have to be under, or over 75 for it to be free?

Over

I can’t see any announcement of this change

dv said:

Divine Angel said:

furious said:

So, you have to be under, or over 75 for it to be free?

Over

I can’t see any announcement of this change

The only thing I could find was this, saying it’s been extended for 71-79 until October 31, 2023. Can’t see anything on govt websites so far.
https://nationalseniors.com.au/news/health/free-shingles-vaccine-extended-for-seniors

What does it cost to get the vaccine, anyway?

I’d rather be a bit more poor than have shingles.

captain_spalding said:

What does it cost to get the vaccine, anyway?

I’d rather be a bit more poor than have shingles.

The new to Australia alternate 2 dose vaccine Shingrix is 97% effective in preventing shingles so is significantly superior to Zostavax and is the preferred vaccine of ATAGI. Unfortunately it is not government funded and the 2 doses that are administered 2 to 6 months apart cost $250 each.

https://summerdalemedical.com.au/shingles-vaccination/

Divine Angel said:

Mum (72) was told last week by her GP that the govt is raising the age to 75 this October for the free shingles vaccine.

Just my luck…

Divine Angel said:

captain_spalding said:

What does it cost to get the vaccine, anyway?

I’d rather be a bit more poor than have shingles.

The new to Australia alternate 2 dose vaccine Shingrix is 97% effective in preventing shingles so is significantly superior to Zostavax and is the preferred vaccine of ATAGI. Unfortunately it is not government funded and the 2 doses that are administered 2 to 6 months apart cost $250 each.

https://summerdalemedical.com.au/shingles-vaccination/

Heck!

Michael V said:

Divine Angel said:

captain_spalding said:

What does it cost to get the vaccine, anyway?

I’d rather be a bit more poor than have shingles.

The new to Australia alternate 2 dose vaccine Shingrix is 97% effective in preventing shingles so is significantly superior to Zostavax and is the preferred vaccine of ATAGI. Unfortunately it is not government funded and the 2 doses that are administered 2 to 6 months apart cost $250 each.

https://summerdalemedical.com.au/shingles-vaccination/

Heck!

Shingrix to replace Zostavax, it seems.

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/shingrix-to-replace-zostavax-on-the-national-immun

Michael V said:

Michael V said:

Divine Angel said:

The new to Australia alternate 2 dose vaccine Shingrix is 97% effective in preventing shingles so is significantly superior to Zostavax and is the preferred vaccine of ATAGI. Unfortunately it is not government funded and the 2 doses that are administered 2 to 6 months apart cost $250 each.

https://summerdalemedical.com.au/shingles-vaccination/

Heck!

Shingrix to replace Zostavax, it seems.

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/shingrix-to-replace-zostavax-on-the-national-immun

Could be worth it.

I’ve seen people with bad cases of shingles, and they’d have given you $500, their car, their house, their superannuation and their family as slaves if you could JUST MAKE IT STOP!

captain_spalding said:

Michael V said:

Michael V said:

Heck!

Shingrix to replace Zostavax, it seems.

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/shingrix-to-replace-zostavax-on-the-national-immun

Could be worth it.

I’ve seen people with bad cases of shingles, and they’d have given you $500, their car, their house, their superannuation and their family as slaves if you could JUST MAKE IT STOP!

My first attack of shingles was by far the worst. Extraordinarily painful.

Michael V said:

captain_spalding said:

Michael V said:

Shingrix to replace Zostavax, it seems.

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/shingrix-to-replace-zostavax-on-the-national-immun

Could be worth it.

I’ve seen people with bad cases of shingles, and they’d have given you $500, their car, their house, their superannuation and their family as slaves if you could JUST MAKE IT STOP!

My first attack of shingles was by far the worst. Extraordinarily painful.

Total sensory deprivation and backup drugs, Mr V.

Oh, and your jar of Brazilian copper lilly seeds got scattered today. 😁

Woodie said:

Oh, and your jar of Brazilian copper lilly seeds got scattered today. 😁

Cool!

Let’s hope they sprout.

I don’t think it’s been answered but;

Shingles is the reactivating of shingles he chickenpox virus, after infection the virus lingers in a senescent state in the spinal nerves. When the opportunity arises, it presents as shingles. Because you’re all living so damn long, the likelihood of the virus reactivating is incredibly high after 80.

It hurts like buggery and can cause permanent nerve damage necessitating long term treatment.

The vax has been ‘available’ for many years but I couldn’t actually order it consistently until just before covid. It’s expensive as fuck, ~$270 from your cheapest billionaire and you need two.

Zostavax is about the same total cost but you only need one.

There’s been treatments for VZV since aciclovir came out, however it was ridiculously expensive unless you met pbs criteria, not so important now as tx with drugs is a little cheaper.

poikilotherm said:

I don’t think it’s been answered but;

Shingles is the reactivating of shingles he chickenpox virus, after infection the virus lingers in a senescent state in the spinal nerves. When the opportunity arises, it presents as shingles. Because you’re all living so damn long, the likelihood of the virus reactivating is incredibly high after 80.

It hurts like buggery and can cause permanent nerve damage necessitating long term treatment.

The vax has been ‘available’ for many years but I couldn’t actually order it consistently until just before covid. It’s expensive as fuck, ~$270 from your cheapest billionaire and you need two.

Zostavax is about the same total cost but you only need one.

There’s been treatments for VZV since aciclovir came out, however it was ridiculously expensive unless you met pbs criteria, not so important now as tx with drugs is a little cheaper.

Thanks poik…I did find most of what I was looking for at the NPS site. I was surprised by the NSW government site being different from pretty much every one else. (Link near the beginning of this thread).

https://www.nps.org.au/australian-prescriber/articles/herpes-zoster-vaccination-in-australia-whats-available-and-who-benefits

Divine Angel said:

I thought the point of chickenpox parties as kids was because chickenpox can make adults sterile and/or other nastiness? I know measles can, thought chickenpox did too.

Mini Me has had chickenpox vaccines, which I’m told also prevent shingles later in life ie she won’t need a separate vaccine in adulthood. It’s also my understanding that the chickenpox and shingles vaccines are much the same, but not exactly.

Hopefully poik or Alex can shed some light at some point.

That was for mumps DA, Mumps is know to potentially cause sterility in men as it affects the tests being a glangular disease is my understanding.

If you have any form of herpes it remains in the body forever , it may sit in a dormant state and then start shedding the virus in the body causing an outbreak. This is true for sexually transmitted forms of herpes as well. Once a person has had a bout of chickenpox, you have a form of herpes in your body that usually sits dormant in the nervous system. Then in your future a certain set of conditions can start the virus shedding in the body moving along the nervous system , which is why people with shingle may experience burning sensations and tingling in the body as the virus is travelling along the nervous system and then will become a visable outbreak in areas of the body as shingles.

That was for mumps DA, Mumps is known to potentially cause sterility in men as it affects the testes being a glandular disease is my understanding.

Since herpes is a virus than can also cross the blood brain barrier it is also linked with one probable cause of dementia. The promotion of chicken pox immunization should have a higher profile in the nation imo.

Yeah people tend to think that chickenpox is always mild and just a temporary inconvenience.

Morning. I’ve had mumps but had no trouble making children.

I’ve had measles, mumps, whooping cough, chicken pox
all of which were considered normal childhood diseases.
As an adult I’ve known enough people with shingles to know
that I don’t want any part of it! So when I was offered the
vaccine I jumped at the chance. That was almost 10 years
ago & so far have not experienced any ill effect.

roughbarked said:

Morning. I’ve had mumps but had no trouble making children.

It is a smaller risk when a child and higher risk when an adult rouhbarked

monkey skipper said:

Since herpes is a virus than can also cross the blood brain barrier it is also linked with one probable cause of dementia. The promotion of chicken pox immunization should have a higher profile in the nation imo.

Conspiracy theory

They are pushing these vaccines to reduce dementia / alzheimers in later life.