I heard on a TV vet show today that medical science can’t detect if a pet has a headache

Is that true? That we have no unintrusive way of detecting whether an animal is in pain? Or if that pain is a headache?

I like the idea of using the raggedness of breathing to detect distress, but that’s not necessarily a direct detection of pain. Sweating and skin tension may be other indicators of distress.

Another possible nonintrusive indicator of pain would be to give the individual a strong painkiller and see if that improves their condition.

If medical science can’t detect a headache, then perhaps that should be a high research priority?

I’ve heard that there is a medical journal called “pain”.

Well I think the only way we can tell if humans have a headache is if they tell us.
And that probably applies to most pain.

Peak Warming Man said:

Well I think the only way we can tell if humans have a headache is if they tell us.
And that probably applies to most pain.

I believe that the animal can show discomfort. A frown would indicate a possible headache and a visual examination by a qualified vet, should be able to determine many ailments that could cause a headache.

Evolutionally speaking, animals showing pain isn’t a good thing because it signals to predators that they are weakened. An animal in pain is often in an advanced state of injury/illness before they show it.

Think about what happens when you have a headache. If you’re in a supermarket with a headache, other people probably won’t know that you have a headache. In animals, they might be sensitive to light, or prefer a quiet space if they have a headache, but those are behaviours which are hard to pick up on and could be caused by anything like just needing some Me Time away from humans and other animals.

I don’t know of any non-intrusive ways to detect a headache in humans or animals.

Divine Angel said:

Evolutionally speaking, animals showing pain isn’t a good thing because it signals to predators that they are weakened. An animal in pain is often in an advanced state of injury/illness before they show it.

Think about what happens when you have a headache. If you’re in a supermarket with a headache, other people probably won’t know that you have a headache. In animals, they might be sensitive to light, or prefer a quiet space if they have a headache, but those are behaviours which are hard to pick up on and could be caused by anything like just needing some Me Time away from humans and other animals.

I don’t know of any non-intrusive ways to detect a headache in humans or animals.

Observation perhaps, human are likely to grimace, pull faces, etc if they have a headache.
Mood, as in grumpy, annoyed for no apparent reason

Cymek said:

Divine Angel said:

Evolutionally speaking, animals showing pain isn’t a good thing because it signals to predators that they are weakened. An animal in pain is often in an advanced state of injury/illness before they show it.

Think about what happens when you have a headache. If you’re in a supermarket with a headache, other people probably won’t know that you have a headache. In animals, they might be sensitive to light, or prefer a quiet space if they have a headache, but those are behaviours which are hard to pick up on and could be caused by anything like just needing some Me Time away from humans and other animals.

I don’t know of any non-intrusive ways to detect a headache in humans or animals.

Observation perhaps, human are likely to grimace, pull faces, etc if they have a headache.
Mood, as in grumpy, annoyed for no apparent reason

That’s just me on a normal day…

Divine Angel said:

Cymek said:

Divine Angel said:

Evolutionally speaking, animals showing pain isn’t a good thing because it signals to predators that they are weakened. An animal in pain is often in an advanced state of injury/illness before they show it.

Think about what happens when you have a headache. If you’re in a supermarket with a headache, other people probably won’t know that you have a headache. In animals, they might be sensitive to light, or prefer a quiet space if they have a headache, but those are behaviours which are hard to pick up on and could be caused by anything like just needing some Me Time away from humans and other animals.

I don’t know of any non-intrusive ways to detect a headache in humans or animals.

Observation perhaps, human are likely to grimace, pull faces, etc if they have a headache.
Mood, as in grumpy, annoyed for no apparent reason

That’s just me on a normal day…

Yeah me as well

subject a feel of or for wetware environment, probably the case, for example, that of across humans whatever sample the experience (sense for) of tiredness is quite varied

you know for many it’s a discomfort of sort to think when tired, and being awake has a discomfort about it, disinclining continued wakefulness, inclining sleep

anyways just exploring what might qualify as headache in a more general way, be sure it’s varied in and of humans, across the population

fairly much all subjective

of a non-human animal the usual self-reporting capacity is limited, perhaps equatable with a human infant, so i’d apply basic sensing a good mother might employ, which is largely instinct, monitoring ease, from some baseline of familiarity

But still, it sems to me shocking that something as basic as pain can’t be measured objectively even in humans.

mollwollfumble said:

But still, it sems to me shocking that something as basic as pain can’t be measured objectively even in humans.

made me think about this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_insensitivity_to_pain
“Congenital insensitivity to pain (CIP), also known as congenital analgesia, is one or more extraordinarily rare conditions in which a person cannot feel (and has never felt) physical pain. The conditions described here are separate from the HSAN group of disorders, which have more specific signs and cause. Because feeling physical pain is vital for survival, CIP is an extremely dangerous condition. It is common for people with the condition to die in childhood due to injuries or illnesses going unnoticed. Burn injuries are among the more common injuries…”

transition said:

mollwollfumble said:

But still, it sems to me shocking that something as basic as pain can’t be measured objectively even in humans.

made me think about this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_insensitivity_to_pain
“Congenital insensitivity to pain (CIP), also known as congenital analgesia, is one or more extraordinarily rare conditions in which a person cannot feel (and has never felt) physical pain. The conditions described here are separate from the HSAN group of disorders, which have more specific signs and cause. Because feeling physical pain is vital for survival, CIP is an extremely dangerous condition. It is common for people with the condition to die in childhood due to injuries or illnesses going unnoticed. Burn injuries are among the more common injuries…”

Burn injuries would be the more noticeable ones and perhaps get treated.
I’m assuming that if you don’t feel pain you might be less disabled in regards to performing physical actions as the pain isn’t preventing or slowing you down.

Cymek said:

transition said:

mollwollfumble said:

But still, it sems to me shocking that something as basic as pain can’t be measured objectively even in humans.

made me think about this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_insensitivity_to_pain
“Congenital insensitivity to pain (CIP), also known as congenital analgesia, is one or more extraordinarily rare conditions in which a person cannot feel (and has never felt) physical pain. The conditions described here are separate from the HSAN group of disorders, which have more specific signs and cause. Because feeling physical pain is vital for survival, CIP is an extremely dangerous condition. It is common for people with the condition to die in childhood due to injuries or illnesses going unnoticed. Burn injuries are among the more common injuries…”

Burn injuries would be the more noticeable ones and perhaps get treated.
I’m assuming that if you don’t feel pain you might be less disabled in regards to performing physical actions as the pain isn’t preventing or slowing you down.

Pain is a sign that you should stop what you’re doing. Without it you risk doing serious harm to your body.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

transition said:

made me think about this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_insensitivity_to_pain
“Congenital insensitivity to pain (CIP), also known as congenital analgesia, is one or more extraordinarily rare conditions in which a person cannot feel (and has never felt) physical pain. The conditions described here are separate from the HSAN group of disorders, which have more specific signs and cause. Because feeling physical pain is vital for survival, CIP is an extremely dangerous condition. It is common for people with the condition to die in childhood due to injuries or illnesses going unnoticed. Burn injuries are among the more common injuries…”

Burn injuries would be the more noticeable ones and perhaps get treated.
I’m assuming that if you don’t feel pain you might be less disabled in regards to performing physical actions as the pain isn’t preventing or slowing you down.

Pain is a sign that you should stop what you’re doing. Without it you risk doing serious harm to your body.

That’s nociceptive pain only.

OCDC said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

Burn injuries would be the more noticeable ones and perhaps get treated.
I’m assuming that if you don’t feel pain you might be less disabled in regards to performing physical actions as the pain isn’t preventing or slowing you down.

Pain is a sign that you should stop what you’re doing. Without it you risk doing serious harm to your body.

That’s nociceptive pain only.

Would someone with the above be able to exploit it for survival, say if they felt pain they be unable to move but if they didn’t they could even if injured

Cymek said:

OCDC said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Pain is a sign that you should stop what you’re doing. Without it you risk doing serious harm to your body.

That’s nociceptive pain only.

Would someone with the above be able to exploit it for survival, say if they felt pain they be unable to move but if they didn’t they could even if injured

Potentially, but it could also result in additional harm if the noxious stimulus is not recognised.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

transition said:

made me think about this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_insensitivity_to_pain
“Congenital insensitivity to pain (CIP), also known as congenital analgesia, is one or more extraordinarily rare conditions in which a person cannot feel (and has never felt) physical pain. The conditions described here are separate from the HSAN group of disorders, which have more specific signs and cause. Because feeling physical pain is vital for survival, CIP is an extremely dangerous condition. It is common for people with the condition to die in childhood due to injuries or illnesses going unnoticed. Burn injuries are among the more common injuries…”

Burn injuries would be the more noticeable ones and perhaps get treated.
I’m assuming that if you don’t feel pain you might be less disabled in regards to performing physical actions as the pain isn’t preventing or slowing you down.

Pain is a sign that you should stop what you’re doing. Without it you risk doing serious harm to your body.

not sure the extent that applies of effort for thought, as thinking hard can hurt