I’ve just started looking into this and am coming to a preposterous and disturbing conclusion.

So I need you to set me straight.

First of all, I know absolutely nothing about American slavery. Can you direct me to a non-fiction book written pre 1880 about the topic?

The word “slavery” is a trigger word in the USA. To a lesser extent it is also a trigger word in other English speaking countries. But why specifically English-speaking countries? It isn’t a big or contentious topic in other countries that used to have slaves, countries including Greece, Italy, France, Arabic nations, Hebrew nations, (China, India, Russia?). Of if it is an issue in those countries, not for the same reason.

Going back to earliest records, Old Testament and suchlike, “slave” was originally an exact synonym of “prisoner”. They didn’t call them prisoners because prisons hadn’t been invented yet. People became slaves in one of two ways that are identical to the two ways that people become prisoners today. Either they were criminals who were convicted in court or on remand (or close relatives of those criminals). Or they were prisoners of war.

As a side issue, the massive movement of people from Africa to the Americas has an even more extreme historical precedent. (I don’t have a proper reference for the following as I gave the book read it in away). In early historical times, the entire Arabian peninsula was depopulated, as the people were taken away as slaves.

Although the lifespan of American slaves was shockingly short, this wasn’t due to mistreatment. I’ve looked up death records in Jamaica and found that the lifespans of slave owners, overseers and their families in the same locality were equally short.

Before leaving this post I just want to point out a major error in this chart from Wikipedia. The third most commonly spoken language in the USA is not Chinese. It’s AAVE, which stands for African American Vernacular English, spoken by between 30 million and 40 million people.

We still have a form of semi slavery nowadays

Millions of poorly paid exploited workers so others can enjoy various goods at a reasonable price (debt is encouraged though to obtain them) and profit margins are high.

Cymek said:

We still have a form of semi slavery nowadays

Millions of poorly paid exploited workers so others can enjoy various goods at a reasonable price (debt is encouraged though to obtain them) and profit margins are high.

It is a bit of slight on the evils of real slavery to contend that freely working in a job of your own choosing, however low paid, is somehow equivalent.

mollwollfumble said:

I’ve just started looking into this and am coming to a preposterous and disturbing conclusion.

So I need you to set me straight.

First of all, I know absolutely nothing about American slavery. Can you direct me to a non-fiction book written pre 1880 about the topic?

The word “slavery” is a trigger word in the USA. To a lesser extent it is also a trigger word in other English speaking countries. But why specifically English-speaking countries? It isn’t a big or contentious topic in other countries that used to have slaves, countries including Greece, Italy, France, Arabic nations, Hebrew nations, (China, India, Russia?). Of if it is an issue in those countries, not for the same reason.

Going back to earliest records, Old Testament and suchlike, “slave” was originally an exact synonym of “prisoner”. They didn’t call them prisoners because prisons hadn’t been invented yet. People became slaves in one of two ways that are identical to the two ways that people become prisoners today. Either they were criminals who were convicted in court or on remand (or close relatives of those criminals). Or they were prisoners of war.

As a side issue, the massive movement of people from Africa to the Americas has an even more extreme historical precedent. (I don’t have a proper reference for the following as I gave the book read it in away). In early historical times, the entire Arabian peninsula was depopulated, as the people were taken away as slaves.

Although the lifespan of American slaves was shockingly short, this wasn’t due to mistreatment. I’ve looked up death records in Jamaica and found that the lifespans of slave owners, overseers and their families in the same locality were equally short.

Before leaving this post I just want to point out a major error in this chart from Wikipedia. The third most commonly spoken language in the USA is not Chinese. It’s AAVE, which stands for African American Vernacular English, spoken by between 30 million and 40 million people.

The author is a bit short of the total pop.
If you add 40 mill to that total it comes out at : 332.06 million.

Cymek said:

We still have a form of semi slavery nowadays

Millions of poorly paid exploited workers so others can enjoy various goods at a reasonable price (debt is encouraged though to obtain them) and profit margins are high.

True.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

We still have a form of semi slavery nowadays

Millions of poorly paid exploited workers so others can enjoy various goods at a reasonable price (debt is encouraged though to obtain them) and profit margins are high.

It is a bit of slight on the evils of real slavery to contend that freely working in a job of your own choosing, however low paid, is somehow equivalent.

We are forced to work in any job we can get.
Very few walk into the very job they always wanted to do.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

We still have a form of semi slavery nowadays

Millions of poorly paid exploited workers so others can enjoy various goods at a reasonable price (debt is encouraged though to obtain them) and profit margins are high.

It is a bit of slight on the evils of real slavery to contend that freely working in a job of your own choosing, however low paid, is somehow equivalent.

You are all forgetting that slavery still exists and in terms of the type of slavery you are thinking of. That is forced labour with harsh conditions, or kept under a state of compliance… such as those who are sex trafficked, which is an ongoing crisis.

Arts said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

We still have a form of semi slavery nowadays

Millions of poorly paid exploited workers so others can enjoy various goods at a reasonable price (debt is encouraged though to obtain them) and profit margins are high.

It is a bit of slight on the evils of real slavery to contend that freely working in a job of your own choosing, however low paid, is somehow equivalent.

You are all forgetting that slavery still exists and in terms of the type of slavery you are thinking of. That is forced labour with harsh conditions, or kept under a state of compliance… such as those who are sex trafficked, which is an ongoing crisis.

Yep.

Arts said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

We still have a form of semi slavery nowadays

Millions of poorly paid exploited workers so others can enjoy various goods at a reasonable price (debt is encouraged though to obtain them) and profit margins are high.

It is a bit of slight on the evils of real slavery to contend that freely working in a job of your own choosing, however low paid, is somehow equivalent.

You are all forgetting that slavery still exists and in terms of the type of slavery you are thinking of. That is forced labour with harsh conditions, or kept under a state of compliance… such as those who are sex trafficked, which is an ongoing crisis.

Yeah plus whose knows what goes on in tightly controlled nations who practice isolation

Arts said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

We still have a form of semi slavery nowadays

Millions of poorly paid exploited workers so others can enjoy various goods at a reasonable price (debt is encouraged though to obtain them) and profit margins are high.

It is a bit of slight on the evils of real slavery to contend that freely working in a job of your own choosing, however low paid, is somehow equivalent.

You are all forgetting that slavery still exists and in terms of the type of slavery you are thinking of. That is forced labour with harsh conditions, or kept under a state of compliance… such as those who are sex trafficked, which is an ongoing crisis.

Slavery is still permitted under the US Constitution.

btm said:

Arts said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

It is a bit of slight on the evils of real slavery to contend that freely working in a job of your own choosing, however low paid, is somehow equivalent.

You are all forgetting that slavery still exists and in terms of the type of slavery you are thinking of. That is forced labour with harsh conditions, or kept under a state of compliance… such as those who are sex trafficked, which is an ongoing crisis.

Slavery is still permitted under the US Constitution.

Most of the original Kanaka labourers were recruited or blackbirded (kidnapped or deceived) from the Solomon Islands, New Hebrides (Vanuatu) and New Caledonia, with others from the Loyalty Islands.

The first shipload of 65 Melanesian labourers arrived in Boyd Town on 16 April 1847 on board the Velocity, a vessel under the command of Captain Kirsopp and chartered by Benjamin Boyd. Boyd was a Scottish colonist who wanted cheap labourers to work at his expansive pastoral leaseholds in the colony of New South Wales. He financed two more procurements of South Sea Islanders, 70 of which arrived in Sydney in September 1847, and another 57 in October of that same year. Many of these Islanders soon absconded from their workplaces and were observed starving and destitute on the streets of Sydney.[

dv said:

A 16-year-old boy died Saturday from injuries sustained in an industrial accident at a sawmill in a northern Wisconsin County.

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration is investigating the fatality, and has made a referral to the U.S. Department of Labor’s Wage and Hour Division for possible child labor violations concerning hazardous occupations, according to Scott Allen, the Labor Department’s regional director for public affairs and media relations.

The Florence County Sheriff’s Office was called last Thursday to a report of an unresponsive teenager at the Florence Hardwoods logging company.

The Sheriff’s Office says the teen was transferred to a local hospital before being sent to Children’s Wisconsin, a pediatric hospital in Milwaukee. He died from his injuries Saturday.

“Our thoughts and prayers go out to his family, friends, students and co-workers,” Florence County Sheriff’s Office Chief Deputy Teresa Chrisman said in a statement.

The Department of Labor and the Sheriff’s Office are not providing additional information at this time. Florence Hardwoods did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Officials have not released the teen’s name.

A GoFundMe post set up for the family said the rural community in Florence is “in absolute shock.” A comment on the page from a family member said the boy is an organ donor, and his loss will help “bring new life to seven more people.”

https://www.wpr.org/teen-boy-dies-following-industrial-accident-northern-wisconsin-sawmill

Well thank fuck for that, much better and fresher harvested than out in the Western Regions’ New Frontier where they get lodging, uniforms, education, work, and then harvested.

Arts said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Cymek said:

We still have a form of semi slavery nowadays

Millions of poorly paid exploited workers so others can enjoy various goods at a reasonable price (debt is encouraged though to obtain them) and profit margins are high.

It is a bit of slight on the evils of real slavery to contend that freely working in a job of your own choosing, however low paid, is somehow equivalent.

You are all forgetting that slavery still exists and in terms of the type of slavery you are thinking of. That is forced labour with harsh conditions, or kept under a state of compliance… such as those who are sex trafficked, which is an ongoing crisis.

I don’t think we were unaware of modern slavery.

btm said:

Arts said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

It is a bit of slight on the evils of real slavery to contend that freely working in a job of your own choosing, however low paid, is somehow equivalent.

You are all forgetting that slavery still exists and in terms of the type of slavery you are thinking of. That is forced labour with harsh conditions, or kept under a state of compliance… such as those who are sex trafficked, which is an ongoing crisis.

Slavery is still permitted under the US Constitution.

the 13th amendment does not allow for slavery except under certain conditions

Witty Rejoinder said:

Arts said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

It is a bit of slight on the evils of real slavery to contend that freely working in a job of your own choosing, however low paid, is somehow equivalent.

You are all forgetting that slavery still exists and in terms of the type of slavery you are thinking of. That is forced labour with harsh conditions, or kept under a state of compliance… such as those who are sex trafficked, which is an ongoing crisis.

I don’t think we were unaware of modern slavery.

good

Arts said:

btm said:

Arts said:

You are all forgetting that slavery still exists and in terms of the type of slavery you are thinking of. That is forced labour with harsh conditions, or kept under a state of compliance… such as those who are sex trafficked, which is an ongoing crisis.

Slavery is still permitted under the US Constitution.

the 13th amendment does not allow for slavery except under certain conditions

The conditions?

Arts said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Arts said:

You are all forgetting that slavery still exists and in terms of the type of slavery you are thinking of. That is forced labour with harsh conditions, or kept under a state of compliance… such as those who are sex trafficked, which is an ongoing crisis.

I don’t think we were unaware of modern slavery.

good

Would people in general agree to its eradication replaced with decent wages and benefits but we pay for higher prices for all goods and/or profit is reduced for business (not no profit but less)

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

btm said:

Slavery is still permitted under the US Constitution.

the 13th amendment does not allow for slavery except under certain conditions

The conditions?

it has to do with criminal intents.. however it is a loophole that is still being exploited, specifically against African Americans..

but slavery as servitude is out…

Arts said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Arts said:

You are all forgetting that slavery still exists and in terms of the type of slavery you are thinking of. That is forced labour with harsh conditions, or kept under a state of compliance… such as those who are sex trafficked, which is an ongoing crisis.

I don’t think we were unaware of modern slavery.

good

For those that don’t know.
https://antislavery.org.au/modern-slavery/
https://www.sydney.edu.au/study/why-choose-sydney/student-life/student-news/2021/05/24/modern-slavery-what-everyone-needs-to-know.html

Cymek said:

Arts said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I don’t think we were unaware of modern slavery.

good

Would people in general agree to its eradication replaced with decent wages and benefits but we pay for higher prices for all goods and/or profit is reduced for business (not no profit but less)

The system has been skewing toward more for the top and and a shift towards enforced labour for lower wages. So I am Ll for take the money off the top enders and allow the rest of us some freedom.

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

the 13th amendment does not allow for slavery except under certain conditions

The conditions?

it has to do with criminal intents.. however it is a loophole that is still being exploited, specifically against African Americans..

but slavery as servitude is out…

Grok that.

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

Arts said:

good

Would people in general agree to its eradication replaced with decent wages and benefits but we pay for higher prices for all goods and/or profit is reduced for business (not no profit but less)

The system has been skewing toward more for the top and and a shift towards enforced labour for lower wages. So I am Ll for take the money off the top enders and allow the rest of us some freedom.

I mean we are really talking about different taxonomies of the topic, which I guess was WR’s initial comment

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

Would people in general agree to its eradication replaced with decent wages and benefits but we pay for higher prices for all goods and/or profit is reduced for business (not no profit but less)

The system has been skewing toward more for the top and and a shift towards enforced labour for lower wages. So I am Ll for take the money off the top enders and allow the rest of us some freedom.

I mean we are really talking about different taxonomies of the topic, which I guess was WR’s initial comment

Yes.

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

Cymek said:

Would people in general agree to its eradication replaced with decent wages and benefits but we pay for higher prices for all goods and/or profit is reduced for business (not no profit but less)

The system has been skewing toward more for the top and and a shift towards enforced labour for lower wages. So I am Ll for take the money off the top enders and allow the rest of us some freedom.

I mean we are really talking about different taxonomies of the topic, which I guess was WR’s initial comment

Vindication! :-)

Witty Rejoinder said:

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

The system has been skewing toward more for the top and and a shift towards enforced labour for lower wages. So I am Ll for take the money off the top enders and allow the rest of us some freedom.

I mean we are really talking about different taxonomies of the topic, which I guess was WR’s initial comment

Vindication! :-)

:) pats your shoulder and says congrats.

roughbarked said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Arts said:

I mean we are really talking about different taxonomies of the topic, which I guess was WR’s initial comment

Vindication! :-)

:) pats your shoulder and says congrats.

don’t encourage them…

roughbarked said:

mollwollfumble said:

I’ve just started looking into this and am coming to a preposterous and disturbing conclusion.

So I need you to set me straight.

First of all, I know absolutely nothing about American slavery. Can you direct me to a non-fiction book written pre 1880 about the topic?

The word “slavery” is a trigger word in the USA. To a lesser extent it is also a trigger word in other English speaking countries. But why specifically English-speaking countries? It isn’t a big or contentious topic in other countries that used to have slaves, countries including Greece, Italy, France, Arabic nations, Hebrew nations, (China, India, Russia?). Of if it is an issue in those countries, not for the same reason.

Going back to earliest records, Old Testament and suchlike, “slave” was originally an exact synonym of “prisoner”. They didn’t call them prisoners because prisons hadn’t been invented yet. People became slaves in one of two ways that are identical to the two ways that people become prisoners today. Either they were criminals who were convicted in court or on remand (or close relatives of those criminals). Or they were prisoners of war.

As a side issue, the massive movement of people from Africa to the Americas has an even more extreme historical precedent. (I don’t have a proper reference for the following as I gave the book read it in away). In early historical times, the entire Arabian peninsula was depopulated, as the people were taken away as slaves.

Although the lifespan of American slaves was shockingly short, this wasn’t due to mistreatment. I’ve looked up death records in Jamaica and found that the lifespans of slave owners, overseers and their families in the same locality were equally short.

Before leaving this post I just want to point out a major error in this chart from Wikipedia. The third most commonly spoken language in the USA is not Chinese. It’s AAVE, which stands for African American Vernacular English, spoken by between 30 million and 40 million people.

The author is a bit short of the total pop. swapsies.
If you add 40 mill to that total it comes out at : 332.06 million.

Wrong picture. hmm
There that fixed it.

After 1863, more than 62,000 Islanders were brought to Australia; in 1901, about 10,000 were living in Queensland and northern New South Wales. The Pacific Island Labourers Act 1901, legislation complementing the White Australia policy, ordained the deportation of all post-1879 arrivals to the Solomon Islands or the New Hebrides, where “neither property, nor rights, nor welcome awaited them”.

Have you considered using a search engine?

dv said:

Have you considered using a search engine?

Who is you?

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Have you considered using a search engine?

Who is you?

Mollwolfumble, who is looking for a book on the topic.

dv said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Have you considered using a search engine?

Who is you?

Mollwolfumble, who is looking for a book on the topic.

Plenty of youtube stuff. There were a lot of Irish slaves too.

mollwollfumble said:

I’ve just started looking into this and am coming to a preposterous and disturbing conclusion.

So I need you to set me straight.

First of all, I know absolutely nothing about American slavery. Can you direct me to a non-fiction book written pre 1880 about the topic?

The word “slavery” is a trigger word in the USA. To a lesser extent it is also a trigger word in other English speaking countries. But why specifically English-speaking countries? It isn’t a big or contentious topic in other countries that used to have slaves, countries including Greece, Italy, France, Arabic nations, Hebrew nations, (China, India, Russia?). Of if it is an issue in those countries, not for the same reason.

Going back to earliest records, Old Testament and suchlike, “slave” was originally an exact synonym of “prisoner”. They didn’t call them prisoners because prisons hadn’t been invented yet. People became slaves in one of two ways that are identical to the two ways that people become prisoners today. Either they were criminals who were convicted in court or on remand (or close relatives of those criminals). Or they were prisoners of war.

As a side issue, the massive movement of people from Africa to the Americas has an even more extreme historical precedent. (I don’t have a proper reference for the following as I gave the book read it in away). In early historical times, the entire Arabian peninsula was depopulated, as the people were taken away as slaves.

Although the lifespan of American slaves was shockingly short, this wasn’t due to mistreatment. I’ve looked up death records in Jamaica and found that the lifespans of slave owners, overseers and their families in the same locality were equally short.

Before leaving this post I just want to point out a major error in this chart from Wikipedia. The third most commonly spoken language in the USA is not Chinese. It’s AAVE, which stands for African American Vernacular English, spoken by between 30 million and 40 million people.

I used a search engine.
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Slave-Trade/Hugh-Thomas/9780684835655
https://fivebooks.com/best-books/the-slave-trade-william-a-pettigrew/

That should keep you going for a while.

roughbarked said:

mollwollfumble said:

I’ve just started looking into this and am coming to a preposterous and disturbing conclusion.

So I need you to set me straight.

First of all, I know absolutely nothing about American slavery. Can you direct me to a non-fiction book written pre 1880 about the topic?

The word “slavery” is a trigger word in the USA. To a lesser extent it is also a trigger word in other English speaking countries. But why specifically English-speaking countries? It isn’t a big or contentious topic in other countries that used to have slaves, countries including Greece, Italy, France, Arabic nations, Hebrew nations, (China, India, Russia?). Of if it is an issue in those countries, not for the same reason.

Going back to earliest records, Old Testament and suchlike, “slave” was originally an exact synonym of “prisoner”. They didn’t call them prisoners because prisons hadn’t been invented yet. People became slaves in one of two ways that are identical to the two ways that people become prisoners today. Either they were criminals who were convicted in court or on remand (or close relatives of those criminals). Or they were prisoners of war.

As a side issue, the massive movement of people from Africa to the Americas has an even more extreme historical precedent. (I don’t have a proper reference for the following as I gave the book read it in away). In early historical times, the entire Arabian peninsula was depopulated, as the people were taken away as slaves.

Although the lifespan of American slaves was shockingly short, this wasn’t due to mistreatment. I’ve looked up death records in Jamaica and found that the lifespans of slave owners, overseers and their families in the same locality were equally short.

Before leaving this post I just want to point out a major error in this chart from Wikipedia. The third most commonly spoken language in the USA is not Chinese. It’s AAVE, which stands for African American Vernacular English, spoken by between 30 million and 40 million people.

I used a search engine.
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Slave-Trade/Hugh-Thomas/9780684835655
https://fivebooks.com/best-books/the-slave-trade-william-a-pettigrew/

That should keep you going for a while.

Then there is this https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/ten-books-on-slavery-you-need-to-read-120590/

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

mollwollfumble said:

I’ve just started looking into this and am coming to a preposterous and disturbing conclusion.

So I need you to set me straight.

First of all, I know absolutely nothing about American slavery. Can you direct me to a non-fiction book written pre 1880 about the topic?

The word “slavery” is a trigger word in the USA. To a lesser extent it is also a trigger word in other English speaking countries. But why specifically English-speaking countries? It isn’t a big or contentious topic in other countries that used to have slaves, countries including Greece, Italy, France, Arabic nations, Hebrew nations, (China, India, Russia?). Of if it is an issue in those countries, not for the same reason.

Going back to earliest records, Old Testament and suchlike, “slave” was originally an exact synonym of “prisoner”. They didn’t call them prisoners because prisons hadn’t been invented yet. People became slaves in one of two ways that are identical to the two ways that people become prisoners today. Either they were criminals who were convicted in court or on remand (or close relatives of those criminals). Or they were prisoners of war.

As a side issue, the massive movement of people from Africa to the Americas has an even more extreme historical precedent. (I don’t have a proper reference for the following as I gave the book read it in away). In early historical times, the entire Arabian peninsula was depopulated, as the people were taken away as slaves.

Although the lifespan of American slaves was shockingly short, this wasn’t due to mistreatment. I’ve looked up death records in Jamaica and found that the lifespans of slave owners, overseers and their families in the same locality were equally short.

Before leaving this post I just want to point out a major error in this chart from Wikipedia. The third most commonly spoken language in the USA is not Chinese. It’s AAVE, which stands for African American Vernacular English, spoken by between 30 million and 40 million people.

I used a search engine.
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Slave-Trade/Hugh-Thomas/9780684835655
https://fivebooks.com/best-books/the-slave-trade-william-a-pettigrew/

That should keep you going for a while.

Then there is this https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/ten-books-on-slavery-you-need-to-read-120590/

or if you don’t want a US centric view try

The Slave Trade by Hugh Thomas.
The history of the Atlantic Slave Trade 1440-1870
925p

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

I used a search engine.
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Slave-Trade/Hugh-Thomas/9780684835655
https://fivebooks.com/best-books/the-slave-trade-william-a-pettigrew/

That should keep you going for a while.

Then there is this https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/ten-books-on-slavery-you-need-to-read-120590/

or if you don’t want a US centric view try

The Slave Trade by Hugh Thomas.
The history of the Atlantic Slave Trade 1440-1870
925p

If you look up there ^, you’ll see I already said that.

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

Then there is this https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/ten-books-on-slavery-you-need-to-read-120590/

or if you don’t want a US centric view try

The Slave Trade by Hugh Thomas.
The history of the Atlantic Slave Trade 1440-1870
925p

If you look up there ^, you’ll see I already said that.

yes, but I have actually read this one so was giving a recommendation based on firsthand experience.

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

I used a search engine.
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Slave-Trade/Hugh-Thomas/9780684835655
https://fivebooks.com/best-books/the-slave-trade-william-a-pettigrew/

That should keep you going for a while.

Then there is this https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/ten-books-on-slavery-you-need-to-read-120590/

or if you don’t want a US centric view try

The Slave Trade by Hugh Thomas.
The history of the Atlantic Slave Trade 1440-1870
925p

“First of all, I know absolutely nothing about American slavery. Can you direct me to a non-fiction book written pre 1880 about the topic?”

Michael V said:

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

Then there is this https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/ten-books-on-slavery-you-need-to-read-120590/

or if you don’t want a US centric view try

The Slave Trade by Hugh Thomas.
The history of the Atlantic Slave Trade 1440-1870
925p

“First of all, I know absolutely nothing about American slavery. Can you direct me to a non-fiction book written pre 1880 about the topic?”

yes, but The Slave Trade also includes information on American Slavery. I doubt the caveat that the books must have been written before 1880 is worth being concerned about.

ChrispenEvan said:

Michael V said:

ChrispenEvan said:

or if you don’t want a US centric view try

The Slave Trade by Hugh Thomas.
The history of the Atlantic Slave Trade 1440-1870
925p

“First of all, I know absolutely nothing about American slavery. Can you direct me to a non-fiction book written pre 1880 about the topic?”

yes, but The Slave Trade also includes information on American Slavery. I doubt the caveat that the books must have been written before 1880 is worth being concerned about.

It seems to be for moll. Look at how he thinks the Ion Idriess is the best, most authoritative author about first nations peoples.

Michael V said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Michael V said:

“First of all, I know absolutely nothing about American slavery. Can you direct me to a non-fiction book written pre 1880 about the topic?”

yes, but The Slave Trade also includes information on American Slavery. I doubt the caveat that the books must have been written before 1880 is worth being concerned about.

It seems to be for moll. Look at how he thinks the Ion Idriess is the best, most authoritative author about first nations peoples.

I ignore his tripe and just post info that other, more sensible, forumites might find interesting.

Michael V said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Michael V said:

“First of all, I know absolutely nothing about American slavery. Can you direct me to a non-fiction book written pre 1880 about the topic?”

yes, but The Slave Trade also includes information on American Slavery. I doubt the caveat that the books must have been written before 1880 is worth being concerned about.

It seems to be for moll. Look at how he thinks the Ion Idriess is the best, most authoritative author about first nations peoples.

Yeah. He thinks contemporaneous sources are best despite how misleading or biased they may be.

ChrispenEvan said:

Michael V said:

ChrispenEvan said:

yes, but The Slave Trade also includes information on American Slavery. I doubt the caveat that the books must have been written before 1880 is worth being concerned about.

It seems to be for moll. Look at how he thinks the Ion Idriess is the best, most authoritative author about first nations peoples.

I ignore his tripe and just post info that other, more sensible, forumites might find interesting.

how dare you

ChrispenEvan said:

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

or if you don’t want a US centric view try

The Slave Trade by Hugh Thomas.
The history of the Atlantic Slave Trade 1440-1870
925p

If you look up there ^, you’ll see I already said that.

yes, but I have actually read this one so was giving a recommendation based on firsthand experience.

Ah. I see.

ChrispenEvan said:

Michael V said:

ChrispenEvan said:

or if you don’t want a US centric view try

The Slave Trade by Hugh Thomas.
The history of the Atlantic Slave Trade 1440-1870
925p

“First of all, I know absolutely nothing about American slavery. Can you direct me to a non-fiction book written pre 1880 about the topic?”

yes, but The Slave Trade also includes information on American Slavery. I doubt the caveat that the books must have been written before 1880 is worth being concerned about.

True. However there may be writings about the time itself when slavery was soon to be banned. Writings also about the recompensing of slave traders for loss of property after the ban.

Michael V said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Michael V said:

“First of all, I know absolutely nothing about American slavery. Can you direct me to a non-fiction book written pre 1880 about the topic?”

yes, but The Slave Trade also includes information on American Slavery. I doubt the caveat that the books must have been written before 1880 is worth being concerned about.

It seems to be for moll. Look at how he thinks the Ion Idriess is the best, most authoritative author about first nations peoples.

But he’s he’s now looking for NON-fiction.

ChrispenEvan said:

Michael V said:

ChrispenEvan said:

yes, but The Slave Trade also includes information on American Slavery. I doubt the caveat that the books must have been written before 1880 is worth being concerned about.

It seems to be for moll. Look at how he thinks the Ion Idriess is the best, most authoritative author about first nations peoples.

I ignore his tripe and just post info that other, more sensible, forumites might find interesting.

Thank the good Lord.

Music and a wee, bit of sunshine make for a bonnie Tartan Festival

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/music-and-a-wee-bit-of-sunshine-make-for-a-bonnie-tartan-festival/ar-AA1dCJ0E?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=4e72d935e0a946d98661afd3703aad13&ei=39

Woops.

mollwollfumble said:

First of all, I know absolutely nothing about American slavery. Can you direct me to a non-fiction book written pre 1880 about the topic?

Why? Why do you need a book written pre-1880 on this topic.

Just get a general book on American History, it is bound to have a few chapters dedicated to it. Otherwise get as book written pre 2010 (ish), before all the culture wars crap took off. There are literally hundreds of good academic books on the topic. You don’t need to get hold of anything pre-1880 to get a good overview of it.

The rest of the thread seems to have been derailed. America had chattel slavery, which is a specific form of it. Best to limit discussion of North American slavery to this context only, and not draw comparisons to other forms of slavery. It is a hot topic in America because they practiced the worst form of slavery, and they based it firmly upon race.

I got talking to a Nigerian studying to be a doctor, he told me when the slave traders used to turn up the villages used to sell all the people they didn’t want, trouble makers, idiots crazies.

wookiemeister said:

I got talking to a Nigerian studying to be a doctor, he told me when the slave traders used to turn up the villages used to sell all the people they didn’t want, trouble makers, idiots crazies.

Lucky for you we don’t do that kind of thing anymore…

furious said:

wookiemeister said:

I got talking to a Nigerian studying to be a doctor, he told me when the slave traders used to turn up the villages used to sell all the people they didn’t want, trouble makers, idiots crazies.

Lucky for you we don’t do that kind of thing anymore…

Yeah, since around the 1820s for the trans-Atlantic slave trade. The British used their Royal Navy to suppress it.

wookiemeister said:

I got talking to a Nigerian studying to be a doctor, he told me when the slave traders used to turn up the villages used to sell all the people they didn’t want, trouble makers, idiots crazies.

Is that where they got you from?

furious said:

wookiemeister said:

I got talking to a Nigerian studying to be a doctor, he told me when the slave traders used to turn up the villages used to sell all the people they didn’t want, trouble makers, idiots crazies.

Lucky for you we don’t do that kind of thing anymore…

Talk to Nigerians?

mollwollfumble said:

I’ve just started looking into this and am coming to a preposterous and disturbing conclusion.

So I need you to set me straight.

First of all, I know absolutely nothing about American slavery. Can you direct me to a non-fiction book written pre 1880 about the topic?

> snip <

Although the lifespan of American slaves was shockingly short, this wasn’t due to mistreatment. I’ve looked up death records in Jamaica and found that the lifespans of slave owners, overseers and their families in the same locality were equally short.

Before leaving this post I just want to point out a major error in this chart from Wikipedia. The third most commonly spoken language in the USA is not Chinese. It’s AAVE, which stands for African American Vernacular English, spoken by between 30 million and 40 million people.

Good Luck finding any written archives
in as much as they weren’t (and still aren’t) proud of what they’d done
to the point that they’re STILL Trying to erase all trace (and the very MENTION) of it today:

• Woke is an adjective derived from African-American Vernacular English (AAVE)
  _meaning “alert to racial prejudice and discrimination’_*

https://www.newyorker.com/podcast/political-scene/what-does-woke-mean-and-how-did-the-term-become-so-powerful

https://www.allsides.com/translator/woke

the RURAL Agrarian South was built by and around slave labor
that eventually Split the Country apart leading to the American Civil War
…but a large segment of the population continued to treat African Americans
like less than anyone else denying them education, decent housing and employment
to make sure that they were ever able to raise themselves out of their deplorable conditions.

Ogmog said:

mollwollfumble said:

I’ve just started looking into this and am coming to a preposterous and disturbing conclusion.

So I need you to set me straight.

First of all, I know absolutely nothing about American slavery. Can you direct me to a non-fiction book written pre 1880 about the topic?

> snip <

Although the lifespan of American slaves was shockingly short, this wasn’t due to mistreatment. I’ve looked up death records in Jamaica and found that the lifespans of slave owners, overseers and their families in the same locality were equally short.

Before leaving this post I just want to point out a major error in this chart from Wikipedia. The third most commonly spoken language in the USA is not Chinese. It’s AAVE, which stands for African American Vernacular English, spoken by between 30 million and 40 million people.

Good Luck finding any written archives
in as much as they weren’t (and still aren’t) proud of what they’d done
to the point that they’re STILL Trying to erase all trace (and the very MENTION) of it today:

• Woke is an adjective derived from African-American Vernacular English (AAVE)
  _meaning “alert to racial prejudice and discrimination’_*

https://www.newyorker.com/podcast/political-scene/what-does-woke-mean-and-how-did-the-term-become-so-powerful

https://www.allsides.com/translator/woke

the RURAL Agrarian South was built by and around slave labor
that eventually Split the Country apart leading to the American Civil War
…but a large segment of the population continued to treat African Americans
like less than anyone else denying them education, decent housing and employment
to make sure that they were ever able to raise themselves out of their deplorable conditions.

There are still some who would bring slavery back.

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I don’t think we were unaware of modern slavery.

good

For those that don’t know.
https://antislavery.org.au/modern-slavery/
https://www.sydney.edu.au/study/why-choose-sydney/student-life/student-news/2021/05/24/modern-slavery-what-everyone-needs-to-know.html

Ta. I also looked up slavery in China, Russia and Islamic countries.

Apparently, modern slavery is still a major concern in all three.

I still think that modern Americans would be shocked at how many black activists are descended from slave owners and overseers. A quick check shows that Martin Luther King probably wasn’t. He had an Irish ancestor, but I saw nothing to link that or any other white ancestor to slave owners or overseers.

I’m beginning to think of slaves as “prisoners without prisons”. Which is not how slavery is presented in the USA or Caribbean.