I wonder how much planned obsolescence (by manufacturers)C has cost the environment?
A shitload more landfill. But it’s arguably been helpful in keeping technological progress afloat.
Bubblecar said:
A shitload more landfill. But it’s arguably been helpful in keeping technological progress afloat.
Yes.
But it’s not environmentally friendly.
The real cost is probably in the trillions.
Can the environment recover from the damage?
How far into the future will the damage extend into?
If the damage extends into the future, how much will it cost year by year?
Is there a feedback loop, ?
Bubblecar said:
A shitload more landfill. But it’s arguably been helpful in keeping technological progress afloat.
The landfill would be reduced if there were no planned obsolescence.
By how much, would be interesting.
Tau.Neutrino said:
Bubblecar said:
A shitload more landfill. But it’s arguably been helpful in keeping technological progress afloat.
The landfill would be reduced if there were no planned obsolescence.
By how much, would be interesting.
I thought about that in regards to GPU progression
Each subsequent generation improves on that last
Do they have it planned out many years into the future, but actually need to find a way to do each improvement or could they do it now but don’t for monetary reasons.
Cymek said:
Tau.Neutrino said:In each generation a slayer is born.Bubblecar said:I thought about that in regards to GPU progressionA shitload more landfill. But it’s arguably been helpful in keeping technological progress afloat.The landfill would be reduced if there were no planned obsolescence.
By how much, would be interesting.
Each subsequent generation improves on that last
Do they have it planned out many years into the future, but actually need to find a way to do each improvement or could they do it now but don’t for monetary reasons.
OCDC said:
Cymek said:Tau.Neutrino said:In each generation a slayer is born.The landfill would be reduced if there were no planned obsolescence.I thought about that in regards to GPU progressionBy how much, would be interesting.
Each subsequent generation improves on that last
Do they have it planned out many years into the future, but actually need to find a way to do each improvement or could they do it now but don’t for monetary reasons.
:)
And some of them are quite annoying to their trainers.
Tau.Neutrino said:
I wonder how much planned obsolescence (by manufacturers)C has cost the environment?
It’s a good thing, you wouldn’t want those oil burning automobiles to last forever, switch them to lithium now.
Tau.Neutrino said:
I wonder how much planned obsolescence (by manufacturers)C has cost the environment?
I’m sure some stupid kid fresh out of university, diversity
hire or humanities major can tell us all the answers
LOL
Tau.Neutrino said:
I wonder how much planned obsolescence (by manufacturers) has cost the environment?
I found out recently about the history of the words “planned obsolescence”. It initially referred to incandescent light bulbs. Even there, I’ve learnt, the situation isn’t as clear cut as the activists make out.
The worst examples of planned obsolescence these days are always batteries. Car batteries are always the first thing to give out on a car. Batteries for power tools always die long before the mechanical parts of the power tools. The battery on my laptop died long before the laptop itself. Ditto my tablet. For both laptop and tablet I kept it going for years after the batteries died.
So battery recycling is a huge one.
Never really occurred to me before today but buffets must waste a tremendous amount of food.
Tau.Neutrino said:
Bubblecar said:
A shitload more landfill. But it’s arguably been helpful in keeping technological progress afloat.
Yes.
But it’s not environmentally friendly.
The real cost is probably in the trillions.
Can the environment recover from the damage?
How far into the future will the damage extend into?
If the damage extends into the future, how much will it cost year by year?
Is there a ,loop?
There are hurdles, for example, recycling solar bits and pieces is important and an option on the table currently but working out how lithium will or won’t be part of our future battery urban storage hubs should be a focus of discussion as well.
Lithium batteries can ignite and do explode spectacularly, so…. having a hub of them is concerning unless doing something to reduce that risk is implemented. I didn’t think that lithium was sitting in the bountiful pile as far as primary resources either. I am mindful of the resource being needed in the medical sector and therefore an important resource to manage wisely.
Some people think that solar is a set and forget system, but this is not entirely true …. as the capacity of the system to convert photons into electricity degrades over time … depending upon the quality of the system and inverter (lower shelf life than the actual panels) the shelf life of the entire system might be around 10 years …there may well be the top tier systems that work well past that period but still do degrade overtime where replacement of the system is required. The batteries themselves also degrade.
This will be an ongoing cost and resource demand. So… how do we manage the cost of replacement to keep communities able to afford future replacements, how do we re-use or recycle components, how do we ensure the resources and recycled and not dumped and should we be looking for another battery go to for urban solar battery storage hubs that are not a spontaneous fire risk and/or relying on a resource that is not that plentiful?
Did scouts sustainably travel to this event¿
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-05/australian-scouts-beat-heat-at-south-korea-jamboree/102693052
party_pants said:
buffy said:
party_pants said:
Arts said:
Bubblecar said:
party_pants said:
dv said:
Vanity sizing, or size inflation, is the phenomenon of ready-to-wear clothing of the same nominal size becoming bigger in physical size over time. This has been documented primarily in the United States and the United Kingdom. The use of US standard clothing sizes by manufacturers as the official guidelines for clothing sizes was abandoned in 1983. In the United States, although clothing size standards exist (i.e., ASTM), most companies do not use them any longer.
Size inconsistency has existed since at least 1937. In Sears’ 1937 catalog, a size 14 dress had a bust size of 32 inches (81 cm). In 1967, the same bust size was a size 8. In 2011, it was a size 0. Some argue that vanity sizing is designed to satisfy wearers’ wishes to appear thin and feel better about themselves. This works by adhering to the theory of compensatory self-enhancement, as vanity sizing promotes a more positive self-image of one upon seeing a smaller label. Designer Nicole Miller introduced size 0 because of its strong California presence and to satisfy the request of many Asian customers. It introduced subzero sizes for naturally petite women. However, the increasing size of clothing with the same nominal size caused Nicole Miller to introduce size 0, 00, or subzero sizes. The UK’s Chief Medical Officer has suggested that vanity sizing has contributed to the normalisation of obesity in society.
In 2003, a study that measured over 1,000 pairs of women’s pants found that pants from more expensive brands tended to be smaller than those from cheaper brands with the same nominal size.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanity_sizing
Well, that’s my learning for the day.
I must admit to living in complete ignorance of this phenomenon.
>The UK’s Chief Medical Officer has suggested that vanity sizing has contributed to the normalisation of obesity in society.
Obese folks gotta wear someth’n, or does he wanna see nood fatties walkin’ the streets?
there is also the pocket phenomenon. where women clothes have generally smaller pockets than mens – this is said to be inspired by the handbag and purse industry so they can charge $7000 for a bag.
Once again, I admit my ignorance.
My usual day bag is a backpack. Sometimes I use a canvas toolbag as a manbag.
It’s been going on for a long time in women’s clothing. I have slacks/jeans/trackies in sizes 14, 16 and 18, all of which fit me.
My sizes just come in measurements. Either inches or cm.
So yet again USSA Imperialism poisons the standard, what a surprise.
But then again this phenomenon is good news right, yet another climate negative feedback success, as staple foods become scarce and people waste away the vanity sizing deflation means less fabric needed to produce clothing and therefore less natural and synthetic fibre needs to be spun and consumption decreases and the environment wins again¡
See told you that all you need to do is to burn more of the forests around the world and problem solved, remember how supposedly burning Australia put us back into La Nina cycle¿
https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/should-we-be-worried-about-earth-getting-warmer-if-we-cut-coal-power
Coal plants, despite … global warming. If we shut plants down, there might be some extra warming …
SCIENCE said:
See told you that all you need to do is to burn more of the forests around the world and problem solved, remember how supposedly burning Australia put us back into La Nina cycle¿
https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/should-we-be-worried-about-earth-getting-warmer-if-we-cut-coal-power
Coal plants, despite … global warming. If we shut plants down, there might be some extra warming …
Interesting.
I have often wondered about the short term effects of cutting polution (other than CO2) from burning coal, but that is the first time I have seen it discussed.
The Rev Dodgson said:
SCIENCE said:See told you that all you need to do is to burn more of the forests around the world and problem solved, remember how supposedly burning Australia put us back into La Nina cycle¿
https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/should-we-be-worried-about-earth-getting-warmer-if-we-cut-coal-power
Coal plants, despite … global warming. If we shut plants down, there might be some extra warming …
Interesting.
I have often wondered about the short term effects of cutting polution (other than CO2) from burning coal, but that is the first time I have seen it discussed.
Why not chuck some more SO2 up there?
SCIENCE said:
Did scouts sustainably travel to this event¿
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-05/australian-scouts-beat-heat-at-south-korea-jamboree/102693052
STEMocracy fails by not being implemented yet again¡
Professor Seree said a number of mitigation measures should be considered, such as elevating coastal roads, reclaiming some land by the sea to plant wide mangrove belts, and building a 100m barrier across the Bay of Bangkok.
But he added it was difficult to find politicians willing to fund construction projects that could take up to 20 years to complete.
“Normally they are not interested because they say that, ‘I am elected for four years, I will not think for more than four years’, so this a big problem for us,” Professor Seree said.
SCIENCE said:
STEMocracy fails by not being implemented yet again¡
Professor Seree said a number of mitigation measures should be considered, such as elevating coastal roads, reclaiming some land by the sea to plant wide mangrove belts, and building a 100m barrier across the Bay of Bangkok.
But he added it was difficult to find politicians willing to fund construction projects that could take up to 20 years to complete.
“Normally they are not interested because they say that, ‘I am elected for four years, I will not think for more than four years’, so this a big problem for us,” Professor Seree said.
“Normally they are not interested because they say that, ‘I am elected for four years, I will not think for more than four years’, so this a big problem for us,”
I’m sure they think that, and I agree, it is one of the big problems.
I’m surprised they actually say that though.
LOL
haven’t confirmed source
SCIENCE said:
LOL
haven’t confirmed source
nice
Australia’s chief scientist says carbon production needs to be cut by eight times the current rate
Fucking LOL eh¿
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-15/tasmanian-ski-season-suffering-due-to-warm-winter/102702292
Hey ChatGPT write us a poem archetyping cognitive dissonance ¡
Ah well good to see Russia doing it’s bit to preserve wilderness zones ¡
That’s a lot of international parks with restricted human access¡
Good, we guess¿
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-15/montana-climate-change-case-us-first/102729924
Government agencies are now required to protect citizens from climate change in one US state, following a landmark legal victory for environmental activists. A Montana judge found state agencies were violating their constitutional right to a clean and healthful environment by allowing fossil fuel development. The policy being used for evaluating requests for fossil fuel permits — which does not allow agencies to evaluate the effects of greenhouse gas emissions — was ruled to be unconstitutional. If it stands, the ruling could set an important legal precedent, though experts say its immediate impacts will be limited and state officials have pledged to seek to overturn the decision on appeal.
SCIENCE said:
Good, we guess¿
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-15/montana-climate-change-case-us-first/102729924
Government agencies are now required to protect citizens from climate change in one US state, following a landmark legal victory for environmental activists. A Montana judge found state agencies were violating their constitutional right to a clean and healthful environment by allowing fossil fuel development. The policy being used for evaluating requests for fossil fuel permits — which does not allow agencies to evaluate the effects of greenhouse gas emissions — was ruled to be unconstitutional. If it stands, the ruling could set an important legal precedent, though experts say its immediate impacts will be limited and state officials have pledged to seek to overturn the decision on appeal.
One step for mankind…
by 2030 we’ll be dumping 90,000 tonnes each year of used solar panels.
roughbarked said:
by 2030 we’ll be dumping 90,000 tonnes each year of used solar panels.
Gee, have we got a plan for recycling solar panels?
Tau.Neutrino said:
roughbarked said:
by 2030 we’ll be dumping 90,000 tonnes each year of used solar panels.
Gee, have we got a plan for recycling solar panels?
Not yet.
Tau.Neutrino said:
roughbarked said:
by 2030 we’ll be dumping 90,000 tonnes each year of used solar panels.
Gee, have we got a plan for recycling solar panels?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-04-01/australians-solar-panel-waste-expectations-outlined/106520652
https://minister.dcceew.gov.au/watt/media-releases/joint-media-release-labor-pilots-national-solar-panel-recycling-program
JudgeMental said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
roughbarked said:
by 2030 we’ll be dumping 90,000 tonnes each year of used solar panels.
Gee, have we got a plan for recycling solar panels?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-04-01/australians-solar-panel-waste-expectations-outlined/106520652
https://minister.dcceew.gov.au/watt/media-releases/joint-media-release-labor-pilots-national-solar-panel-recycling-program
That looks promising….so something is in the pipeline.
roughbarked said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
roughbarked said:
by 2030 we’ll be dumping 90,000 tonnes each year of used solar panels.
Gee, have we got a plan for recycling solar panels?
Not yet.
They are accepted for recycling here.
I don’t know what there is downstream in their recycling processes.
Michael V said:
roughbarked said:
Tau.Neutrino said:Gee, have we got a plan for recycling solar panels?
Not yet.
They are accepted for recycling here.
I don’t know what there is downstream in their recycling processes.
We’ll invest $24.7 million over three years to deliver a national pilot for recycling solar panels and establish up to 100 pilot collection sites nationwide.
roughbarked said:
Michael V said:
roughbarked said:Not yet.
They are accepted for recycling here.
I don’t know what there is downstream in their recycling processes.
We’ll invest $24.7 million over three years to deliver a national pilot for recycling solar panels and establish up to 100 pilot collection sites nationwide.
In other words there is talk of it.
roughbarked said:
roughbarked said:
Michael V said:They are accepted for recycling here.
I don’t know what there is downstream in their recycling processes.
We’ll invest $24.7 million over three years to deliver a national pilot for recycling solar panels and establish up to 100 pilot collection sites nationwide.
In other words there is talk of it.
Only 17 per cent of solar panels are currently recycled, and increasing this could unlock up to $7.3 billion in benefits through reduced waste and reuse of materials.
Tau.Neutrino said:
JudgeMental said:
Tau.Neutrino said:Gee, have we got a plan for recycling solar panels?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-04-01/australians-solar-panel-waste-expectations-outlined/106520652
https://minister.dcceew.gov.au/watt/media-releases/joint-media-release-labor-pilots-national-solar-panel-recycling-program
That looks promising….so something is in the pipeline.
Thanks for the links.
It is a mystery to me why this should have been so long delayed, but better late than never.
The Rev Dodgson said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
JudgeMental said:https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-04-01/australians-solar-panel-waste-expectations-outlined/106520652
https://minister.dcceew.gov.au/watt/media-releases/joint-media-release-labor-pilots-national-solar-panel-recycling-program
That looks promising….so something is in the pipeline.
Thanks for the links.
It is a mystery to me why this should have been so long delayed, but better late than never.
true. I have another question for you. What do you think of this statement? “We can decarbonise by reducing emissions versus just targeting zero.”
roughbarked said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
Tau.Neutrino said:That looks promising….so something is in the pipeline.
Thanks for the links.
It is a mystery to me why this should have been so long delayed, but better late than never.
true. I have another question for you. What do you think of this statement? “We can decarbonise by reducing emissions versus just targeting zero.”
Pretty meaningless.
“Reducing emissions” and “targeting zero” are not opposites, they are part of the same thing.
Tau.Neutrino said:
JudgeMental said:
Tau.Neutrino said:Gee, have we got a plan for recycling solar panels?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-04-01/australians-solar-panel-waste-expectations-outlined/106520652
https://minister.dcceew.gov.au/watt/media-releases/joint-media-release-labor-pilots-national-solar-panel-recycling-program
That looks promising….so something is in the pipeline.
We understand that in the right condition with the right system, about 90 per cent of a panel can be recycled.
Is that figure related to recycling materials or redeploying older panels?
They are doing both.
The Rev Dodgson said:
roughbarked said:
The Rev Dodgson said:Thanks for the links.
It is a mystery to me why this should have been so long delayed, but better late than never.
true. I have another question for you. What do you think of this statement? “We can decarbonise by reducing emissions versus just targeting zero.”
Pretty meaningless.
“Reducing emissions” and “targeting zero” are not opposites, they are part of the same thing.
I gathered you’d say that. The statement was at the end of the newsread about parking the electric truck.
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
JudgeMental said:https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-04-01/australians-solar-panel-waste-expectations-outlined/106520652
https://minister.dcceew.gov.au/watt/media-releases/joint-media-release-labor-pilots-national-solar-panel-recycling-program
That looks promising….so something is in the pipeline.
We understand that in the right condition with the right system, about 90 per cent of a panel can be recycled.
Is that figure related to recycling materials or redeploying older panels?
They are doing both.
Reduce
Re-use
Recycle.
A mantra that has been around for at least 50 years.
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
JudgeMental said:https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-04-01/australians-solar-panel-waste-expectations-outlined/106520652
https://minister.dcceew.gov.au/watt/media-releases/joint-media-release-labor-pilots-national-solar-panel-recycling-program
That looks promising….so something is in the pipeline.
We understand that in the right condition with the right system, about 90 per cent of a panel can be recycled.
Is that figure related to recycling materials or redeploying older panels?
They are doing both.
redeploying would be like what Schweppes said about returnable class gottles in 1970 or thereabouts.
“the average bottle does 33 trips being recleaned and reused and it is no longer profitable so we are going to non-returnable containers”.a
The Rev Dodgson said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:That looks promising….so something is in the pipeline.
We understand that in the right condition with the right system, about 90 per cent of a panel can be recycled.
Is that figure related to recycling materials or redeploying older panels?
They are doing both.
Reduce
Re-use
Recycle.A mantra that has been around for at least 50 years.
But yet to be fully implemented.
roughbarked said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:That looks promising….so something is in the pipeline.
We understand that in the right condition with the right system, about 90 per cent of a panel can be recycled.
Is that figure related to recycling materials or redeploying older panels?
They are doing both.
redeploying would be like what Schweppes said about returnable class gottles in 1970 or thereabouts.
“the average bottle does 33 trips being recleaned and reused and it is no longer profitable so we are going to non-returnable containers”.a
glass bottles?
roughbarked said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
Tau.Neutrino said:We understand that in the right condition with the right system, about 90 per cent of a panel can be recycled.
Is that figure related to recycling materials or redeploying older panels?
They are doing both.
Reduce
Re-use
Recycle.A mantra that has been around for at least 50 years.
But yet to be fully implemented.
It would interesting to find out how much of the promotional plastic toys from supermarkets, McDonalds, etc ends up in the environment.
I bet a significant percentage of all rubbish is from products we don’t even need and they exist just to exist
roughbarked said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
roughbarked said:true. I have another question for you. What do you think of this statement? “We can decarbonise by reducing emissions versus just targeting zero.”
Pretty meaningless.
“Reducing emissions” and “targeting zero” are not opposites, they are part of the same thing.
I gathered you’d say that. The statement was at the end of the newsread about parking the electric truck.
OK, now read that one.
I don’t know why forestry companies can’t make electric trucks work if mining companies can and do, but clearly there should be a system for very low cost loans for installing electric charging if it really isn’t economic at the moment.
The Rev Dodgson said:
roughbarked said:
The Rev Dodgson said:Pretty meaningless.
“Reducing emissions” and “targeting zero” are not opposites, they are part of the same thing.
I gathered you’d say that. The statement was at the end of the newsread about parking the electric truck.
OK, now read that one.
I don’t know why forestry companies can’t make electric trucks work if mining companies can and do, but clearly there should be a system for very low cost loans for installing electric charging if it really isn’t economic at the moment.
I just read that article
If monetary cost is always the most important factor how can be expect anything to change
Cymek said:
roughbarked said:
The Rev Dodgson said:Reduce
Re-use
Recycle.A mantra that has been around for at least 50 years.
But yet to be fully implemented.
It would interesting to find out how much of the promotional plastic toys from supermarkets, McDonalds, etc ends up in the environment.
I bet a significant percentage of all rubbish is from products we don’t even need and they exist just to exist
All that shit gets dumped in the mallee out back of me.
The Rev Dodgson said:
roughbarked said:
The Rev Dodgson said:Pretty meaningless.
“Reducing emissions” and “targeting zero” are not opposites, they are part of the same thing.
I gathered you’d say that. The statement was at the end of the newsread about parking the electric truck.
OK, now read that one.
I don’t know why forestry companies can’t make electric trucks work if mining companies can and do, but clearly there should be a system for very low cost loans for installing electric charging if it really isn’t economic at the moment.
Yes.
Cymek said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
roughbarked said:I gathered you’d say that. The statement was at the end of the newsread about parking the electric truck.
OK, now read that one.
I don’t know why forestry companies can’t make electric trucks work if mining companies can and do, but clearly there should be a system for very low cost loans for installing electric charging if it really isn’t economic at the moment.
I just read that article
If monetary cost is always the most important factor how can be expect anything to change
They can spend billions on dumping booster rockets in the ocean. Then they can spend billions of dollars on making electric B triples cost effective.
roughbarked said:
Cymek said:
The Rev Dodgson said:OK, now read that one.
I don’t know why forestry companies can’t make electric trucks work if mining companies can and do, but clearly there should be a system for very low cost loans for installing electric charging if it really isn’t economic at the moment.
I just read that article
If monetary cost is always the most important factor how can be expect anything to change
They can spend billions on dumping booster rockets in the ocean. Then they can spend billions of dollars on making electric B triples cost effective.
After all, it was cheap fuel that made railroad transport a thing of the past yet it is still cost effective to use rail.
Cymek said:
The Rev Dodgson said:
roughbarked said:I gathered you’d say that. The statement was at the end of the newsread about parking the electric truck.
OK, now read that one.
I don’t know why forestry companies can’t make electric trucks work if mining companies can and do, but clearly there should be a system for very low cost loans for installing electric charging if it really isn’t economic at the moment.
I just read that article
If monetary cost is always the most important factor how can be expect anything to change
By the body that is responsible for ensuring the well-being of future generations (known as the government) making future costs visible, so monetary cost includes future costs as well as short term costs.
The Rev Dodgson said:
Cymek said:
The Rev Dodgson said:OK, now read that one.
I don’t know why forestry companies can’t make electric trucks work if mining companies can and do, but clearly there should be a system for very low cost loans for installing electric charging if it really isn’t economic at the moment.
I just read that article
If monetary cost is always the most important factor how can be expect anything to change
By the body that is responsible for ensuring the well-being of future generations (known as the government) making future costs visible, so monetary cost includes future costs as well as short term costs.
Also known as “putting a price on carbon”.
The Rev Dodgson said:
roughbarked said:
The Rev Dodgson said:Pretty meaningless.
“Reducing emissions” and “targeting zero” are not opposites, they are part of the same thing.
I gathered you’d say that. The statement was at the end of the newsread about parking the electric truck.
OK, now read that one.
I don’t know why forestry companies can’t make electric trucks work if mining companies can and do, but clearly there should be a system for very low cost loans for installing electric charging if it really isn’t economic at the moment.
^
JudgeMental said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
roughbarked said:
by 2030 we’ll be dumping 90,000 tonnes each year of used solar panels.
Gee, have we got a plan for recycling solar panels?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-04-01/australians-solar-panel-waste-expectations-outlined/106520652
https://minister.dcceew.gov.au/watt/media-releases/joint-media-release-labor-pilots-national-solar-panel-recycling-program
Damn Labor! Coming up with solutions and stuff!
Tau.Neutrino said:
Tau.Neutrino said:
JudgeMental said:https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-04-01/australians-solar-panel-waste-expectations-outlined/106520652
https://minister.dcceew.gov.au/watt/media-releases/joint-media-release-labor-pilots-national-solar-panel-recycling-program
That looks promising….so something is in the pipeline.
We understand that in the right condition with the right system, about 90 per cent of a panel can be recycled.
Is that figure related to recycling materials or redeploying older panels?
They are doing both.
An incentive program for people upgrading to newer panels provided the older panels are resold.
Sounds good.