In December last year, the High Speed Rail Authority Bill 2022 authorised the creation of The Australian High Speed Rail Authority. The board of the HSRA has now been selected, led by Jill Rossouw.

The first task of the board will be developing the Sydney to Newcastle high speed rail route as the first leg of the Melbourne to Brisbane route. HSR for this purpose is defined as >250 km/h.

Sydney to Newcastle strikes me as a decent chunk and if you were going to start somewhere it is probably going to be that or Sydney to Canberra. Most of the funding will be coming from NSW govt.

https://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/c-king/media-release/all-aboard-high-speed-rail-authority

Sounds like a good start.

The one thing they need to do first though, is develop a list of standards that all high speed rail projects will need to comply with.

Rail gauge (distance between rails)
Electricity supply (overhead height, voltage, current type, frequency etc)
In-cab signalling system
Tracking and control system
Width and carriage lenths
platform height, door sizes, floor level etc – level boarding and accessibility is a must
maximum radius for high-speed corners

All this stuff needs to be set out first. Ideally it would be based upon already existing off-the-shelf systems. The technology is already mature: Japan nealry 60 years, France 40+ years, Germany 30+ years.

Pick a system and stick it to. We want every section of new HSR to be as interoperable as possible. None of this Colonial different gauges nonsense please.

TOOT! 🚂🚂

dv said:

In December last year, the High Speed Rail Authority Bill 2022 authorised the creation of The Australian High Speed Rail Authority. The board of the HSRA has now been selected, led by Jill Rossouw.

The first task of the board will be developing the Sydney to Newcastle high speed rail route as the first leg of the Melbourne to Brisbane route. HSR for this purpose is defined as >250 km/h.

Sydney to Newcastle strikes me as a decent chunk and if you were going to start somewhere it is probably going to be that or Sydney to Canberra. Most of the funding will be coming from NSW govt.

https://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/c-king/media-release/all-aboard-high-speed-rail-authority

Well I hope it gets further than the VFT.

party_pants said:

Sounds like a good start.

The one thing they need to do first though, is develop a list of standards that all high speed rail projects will need to comply with.

Rail gauge (distance between rails)
Electricity supply (overhead height, voltage, current type, frequency etc)
In-cab signalling system
Tracking and control system
Width and carriage lenths
platform height, door sizes, floor level etc – level boarding and accessibility is a must
maximum radius for high-speed corners

All this stuff needs to be set out first. Ideally it would be based upon already existing off-the-shelf systems. The technology is already mature: Japan nealry 60 years, France 40+ years, Germany 30+ years.

Pick a system and stick it to. We want every section of new HSR to be as interoperable as possible. None of this Colonial different gauges nonsense please.

Additional – this needs to be designed with the whole future network in mind – not just to suit the Sydney to Newcastle segment.

Personally, I think we should go with the Japanese Shinkansen system suitable for 50Hz AC

They have two grids, one at 50Hz and one at 60Hz. They run different trains on each grid. Tokyo station is the terminus where they meet. There are no through trains between systems, everyone has to change at Tokyo. … we want to avoid this little problem.

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

In December last year, the High Speed Rail Authority Bill 2022 authorised the creation of The Australian High Speed Rail Authority. The board of the HSRA has now been selected, led by Jill Rossouw.

The first task of the board will be developing the Sydney to Newcastle high speed rail route as the first leg of the Melbourne to Brisbane route. HSR for this purpose is defined as >250 km/h.

Sydney to Newcastle strikes me as a decent chunk and if you were going to start somewhere it is probably going to be that or Sydney to Canberra. Most of the funding will be coming from NSW govt.

https://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/c-king/media-release/all-aboard-high-speed-rail-authority

Well I hope it gets further than the VFT.

Calm down, the Western Sydney Airport is progressing well, a few of the foundations will be done being laid soon in the next few years.

This train will be nuclear of course.

You’ll need thousands of papershufflers for this project.

dv said:

In December last year, the High Speed Rail Authority Bill 2022 authorised the creation of The Australian High Speed Rail Authority. The board of the HSRA has now been selected, led by Jill Rossouw.

The first task of the board will be developing the Sydney to Newcastle high speed rail route as the first leg of the Melbourne to Brisbane route. HSR for this purpose is defined as >250 km/h.

Sydney to Newcastle strikes me as a decent chunk and if you were going to start somewhere it is probably going to be that or Sydney to Canberra. Most of the funding will be coming from NSW govt.

https://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/c-king/media-release/all-aboard-high-speed-rail-authority

Fingers crossed. My CSIRO Division finished the planning of the high speed rail route from Melbourne through Canberra to Sydney using simulated annealing software, when I joined CSIRO more than 25 years ago.

Governments move at a pace that is slow compared to plate tectonics.

> HSR for this purpose is defined as >250 km/h.

Fine. Worldwide, anything under 200 km/h is not considered high speed rail. I hate it when Victoria refers to 150 km/h as “high speed”, it isn’t.

250 km/h is actually pretty average for the operation speed a high speed train anywhere in the world, which is good. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_high-speed_trains

The following countries are just a few with high speed rail operating near 250 km/h.
Uzbekistan, Spain, Switzerland, USA.

wookiemeister said:

This train will be nuclear of course.

You’ll need thousands of papershufflers for this project.

That brings a big smile to my face. I wonder if they could run a high speed train off coal, there will be plenty of coal left over when all the coal-fired power plants shut down.

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Well I hope it gets further than the VFT.

Calm down, the Western Sydney Airport is progressing well, a few of the foundations will be done being laid soon in the next few years.

Two good comments. Yes and Yes. The Sydney second airport plans were circulating in the year 1976.

party_pants said:

Personally, I think we should go with the Japanese Shinkansen system suitable for 50Hz AC

They have two grids, one at 50Hz and one at 60Hz. They run different trains on each grid. Tokyo station is the terminus where they meet. There are no through trains between systems, everyone has to change at Tokyo. … we want to avoid this little problem.

Good sense.

party_pants said:

Sounds like a good start.

The one thing they need to do first though, is develop a list of standards that all high speed rail projects will need to comply with.

Rail gauge (distance between rails)
Electricity supply (overhead height, voltage, current type, frequency etc)
In-cab signalling system
Tracking and control system
Width and carriage lengths
platform height, door sizes, floor level etc – level boarding and accessibility is a must
maximum radius for high-speed corners

All this stuff needs to be set out first. Ideally it would be based upon already existing off-the-shelf systems. The technology is already mature: Japan nearly 60 years, France 40+ years, Germany 30+ years.

Pick a system and stick it to. We want every section of new HSR to be as interoperable as possible. None of this Colonial different gauges nonsense please.

List of standards. Wouldn’t we already have that from the VFT project? Or are they planning on putting this out for tender as they did with the Collins class submarines, and the Siemens trains in Melbourne with faulty brakes?

If I was looking for a current high speed train design to base this on:

• Japanese will work but they will charge twice as much as any other country so not value for money.
• USA always factor in some hidden design failure that cripples the operations irrevocably.
• China tends to be too secretive about its best technology.
• So I’d suggest going with a European or Korean design. Of Europe, I’d recommend other than Germany and Britain.

India is building a new high speed rail and has gone with Japanese technology.

Meh, I still like the Japanese system, in spite of the cost.

If you want the best in the world it don’t come cheap. But if we make it clear that this is just the start of a new major national system they might give us a better deal.

BTW – I think it should not be open to bidding in the traditional way. A committee should look at all the current in-service operations and invite one of them as preferred option, prior to any detailed bidding.

Save ourselves the heartache of buying Eurotrash like we do with defence equipment. The USA doesn’t have any high speed electric trains, and it has to be electric and not diesel.

party_pants said:

Meh, I still like the Japanese system, in spite of the cost.

If you want the best in the world it don’t come cheap. But if we make it clear that this is just the start of a new major national system they might give us a better deal.

BTW – I think it should not be open to bidding in the traditional way. A committee should look at all the current in-service operations and invite one of them as preferred option, prior to any detailed bidding.

Save ourselves the heartache of buying Eurotrash like we do with defence equipment. The USA doesn’t have any high speed electric trains, and it has to be electric and not diesel.

I see a problem with the overhead power lines, which stop any oversize vehicles, like wind generators etc.

How about placing the power supply under the road, so that heavy vehicles can get charged via induction loops.

Kingy said:

party_pants said:

Meh, I still like the Japanese system, in spite of the cost.

If you want the best in the world it don’t come cheap. But if we make it clear that this is just the start of a new major national system they might give us a better deal.

BTW – I think it should not be open to bidding in the traditional way. A committee should look at all the current in-service operations and invite one of them as preferred option, prior to any detailed bidding.

Save ourselves the heartache of buying Eurotrash like we do with defence equipment. The USA doesn’t have any high speed electric trains, and it has to be electric and not diesel.

I see a problem with the overhead power lines, which stop any oversize vehicles, like wind generators etc.

How about placing the power supply under the road, so that heavy vehicles can get charged via induction loops.

High speed passenger rail will be totally separated from road traffic and cargo rail traffic. No crossings or crossovers. So a passenger rail network has no need to accommodate oversize, or indeed any, cargo.

Cargo rail, or oversize trucks on highways will be on a totally different system.

party_pants said:

Kingy said:

party_pants said:

Meh, I still like the Japanese system, in spite of the cost.

If you want the best in the world it don’t come cheap. But if we make it clear that this is just the start of a new major national system they might give us a better deal.

BTW – I think it should not be open to bidding in the traditional way. A committee should look at all the current in-service operations and invite one of them as preferred option, prior to any detailed bidding.

Save ourselves the heartache of buying Eurotrash like we do with defence equipment. The USA doesn’t have any high speed electric trains, and it has to be electric and not diesel.

I see a problem with the overhead power lines, which stop any oversize vehicles, like wind generators etc.

How about placing the power supply under the road, so that heavy vehicles can get charged via induction loops.

High speed passenger rail will be totally separated from road traffic and cargo rail traffic. No crossings or crossovers. So a passenger rail network has no need to accommodate oversize, or indeed any, cargo.

Cargo rail, or oversize trucks on highways will be on a totally different system.

Ok, I thought you were proposing a vehicle (car, truck, etc) traffic system, not a rail system.

Rail is already powered by overhead electric power.

Trucks could easily be powered by your proposed system, which I agree with.

Kingy said:

party_pants said:

Kingy said:

I see a problem with the overhead power lines, which stop any oversize vehicles, like wind generators etc.

How about placing the power supply under the road, so that heavy vehicles can get charged via induction loops.

High speed passenger rail will be totally separated from road traffic and cargo rail traffic. No crossings or crossovers. So a passenger rail network has no need to accommodate oversize, or indeed any, cargo.

Cargo rail, or oversize trucks on highways will be on a totally different system.

Ok, I thought you were proposing a vehicle (car, truck, etc) traffic system, not a rail system.

Rail is already powered by overhead electric power.

Trucks could easily be powered by your proposed system, which I agree with.

I think you’re getting the threads mixed up. I did start a thread on that but it died in the arse. This is a new thread started by DV given the founding of a new government high speed rail agency.

dv said:

The board of the HSRA has now been selected, led by Jill Rossouw.

They’ll all be gone, and we’ll all be dead before the first sod gets turned.

One thing that I like about the HS2 in the UK in contrast to the California HSR, is that the trains will operate well with the existing electrified routes that currently top out at 200 km/h. This means that as new segments are completed the time savings flow to the rest of the network.

For instance, the first stage runs to Birmingham on a spur and then the main 360km/h HS2 line continues a bit on to Litchfield. There are multiple junctions onto conventional fast rail lines to the Midlands Main Line and West Coast Main Line and indirectly North Wales Coast Line. Services will run from Glasgow, Leeds, Bangor etc on the current lines and feed onto HS2, meaning those locations get immediate benefits while subsequent stages are built.

dv said:

One thing that I like about the HS2 in the UK in contrast to the California HSR, is that the trains will operate well with the existing electrified routes that currently top out at 200 km/h. This means that as new segments are completed the time savings flow to the rest of the network.

For instance, the first stage runs to Birmingham on a spur and then the main 360km/h HS2 line continues a bit on to Litchfield. There are multiple junctions onto conventional fast rail lines to the Midlands Main Line and West Coast Main Line and indirectly North Wales Coast Line. Services will run from Glasgow, Leeds, Bangor etc on the current lines and feed onto HS2, meaning those locations get immediate benefits while subsequent stages are built.

Meanwhile, the Inland Rail project has yet to turn Shovelful of Dirt No. 1.

captain_spalding said:

dv said:

One thing that I like about the HS2 in the UK in contrast to the California HSR, is that the trains will operate well with the existing electrified routes that currently top out at 200 km/h. This means that as new segments are completed the time savings flow to the rest of the network.

For instance, the first stage runs to Birmingham on a spur and then the main 360km/h HS2 line continues a bit on to Litchfield. There are multiple junctions onto conventional fast rail lines to the Midlands Main Line and West Coast Main Line and indirectly North Wales Coast Line. Services will run from Glasgow, Leeds, Bangor etc on the current lines and feed onto HS2, meaning those locations get immediate benefits while subsequent stages are built.

Meanwhile, the Inland Rail project has yet to turn Shovelful of Dirt No. 1.

In Qld, i meant to say.

Timothy Parker has been appointed CEO of the HSRA.

Parker was previously the head of project delivery for Sydney Metro.

His initial task will be to identify the corridors and present a business case for the Sydney to Newcastle leg by the end of 2024.

Nearly thirty boreholes being drilled in New South Wales will support critical geotechnical investigations required to determine the locations for the Albanese Government’s High-Speed Rail between Sydney and Newcastle.

The geotechnical investigations are being undertaken by the High Speed Rail Authority (HSRA) as part of the business case being developed for the first stage linking Sydney and Newcastle.

High-speed rail will connect Australian regions, cities and communities – delivering more job and lifestyle choices, greater housing options and new economic opportunities.

We are planning for a high-speed rail network that will connect Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne and regional communities across the east coast of Australia.

The first stage will connect Newcastle to Sydney – a nationally significant corridor – to create a fast, reliable and regular link between the two largest cities in NSW.

Work has started on drilling 27 boreholes in key areas between Newcastle and Sydney to better understand geological conditions along the route. The information from this work will help in:

determining the proposed depths of new rail tunnels; assessing geological and geotechnical conditions to cross the Hawkesbury River; and understanding the geological complexities of traversing the escarpment into the Central Coast and on to Newcastle.

https://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/c-king/media-release/all-aboard-high-speed-rail-accelerates-first-investigation-works

dv said:

Nearly thirty boreholes being drilled in New South Wales will support critical geotechnical investigations required to determine the locations for the Albanese Government’s High-Speed Rail between Sydney and Newcastle.

The geotechnical investigations are being undertaken by the High Speed Rail Authority (HSRA) as part of the business case being developed for the first stage linking Sydney and Newcastle.

High-speed rail will connect Australian regions, cities and communities – delivering more job and lifestyle choices, greater housing options and new economic opportunities.

We are planning for a high-speed rail network that will connect Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne and regional communities across the east coast of Australia.

The first stage will connect Newcastle to Sydney – a nationally significant corridor – to create a fast, reliable and regular link between the two largest cities in NSW.

Work has started on drilling 27 boreholes in key areas between Newcastle and Sydney to better understand geological conditions along the route. The information from this work will help in:

determining the proposed depths of new rail tunnels; assessing geological and geotechnical conditions to cross the Hawkesbury River; and understanding the geological complexities of traversing the escarpment into the Central Coast and on to Newcastle.

https://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/c-king/media-release/all-aboard-high-speed-rail-accelerates-first-investigation-works

More here:
https://www.hsra.gov.au/project

Took some searching to find just how high speed they are talking about. It’s 250 km/h+, which is pretty fast.

Plenty of problems to overcome in getting this thing built.

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

Nearly thirty boreholes being drilled in New South Wales will support critical geotechnical investigations required to determine the locations for the Albanese Government’s High-Speed Rail between Sydney and Newcastle.

The geotechnical investigations are being undertaken by the High Speed Rail Authority (HSRA) as part of the business case being developed for the first stage linking Sydney and Newcastle.

High-speed rail will connect Australian regions, cities and communities – delivering more job and lifestyle choices, greater housing options and new economic opportunities.

We are planning for a high-speed rail network that will connect Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne and regional communities across the east coast of Australia.

The first stage will connect Newcastle to Sydney – a nationally significant corridor – to create a fast, reliable and regular link between the two largest cities in NSW.

Work has started on drilling 27 boreholes in key areas between Newcastle and Sydney to better understand geological conditions along the route. The information from this work will help in:

determining the proposed depths of new rail tunnels; assessing geological and geotechnical conditions to cross the Hawkesbury River; and understanding the geological complexities of traversing the escarpment into the Central Coast and on to Newcastle.

https://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/c-king/media-release/all-aboard-high-speed-rail-accelerates-first-investigation-works

More here:
https://www.hsra.gov.au/project

Took some searching to find just how high speed they are talking about. It’s 250 km/h+, which is pretty fast.

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

Nearly thirty boreholes being drilled in New South Wales will support critical geotechnical investigations required to determine the locations for the Albanese Government’s High-Speed Rail between Sydney and Newcastle.

The geotechnical investigations are being undertaken by the High Speed Rail Authority (HSRA) as part of the business case being developed for the first stage linking Sydney and Newcastle.

High-speed rail will connect Australian regions, cities and communities – delivering more job and lifestyle choices, greater housing options and new economic opportunities.

We are planning for a high-speed rail network that will connect Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne and regional communities across the east coast of Australia.

The first stage will connect Newcastle to Sydney – a nationally significant corridor – to create a fast, reliable and regular link between the two largest cities in NSW.

Work has started on drilling 27 boreholes in key areas between Newcastle and Sydney to better understand geological conditions along the route. The information from this work will help in:

determining the proposed depths of new rail tunnels; assessing geological and geotechnical conditions to cross the Hawkesbury River; and understanding the geological complexities of traversing the escarpment into the Central Coast and on to Newcastle.

https://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/c-king/media-release/all-aboard-high-speed-rail-accelerates-first-investigation-works

More here:
https://www.hsra.gov.au/project

Took some searching to find just how high speed they are talking about. It’s 250 km/h+, which is pretty fast.

That’s about the speed that my Kingswood did from Williams to Perth in 1984.

I’m not impressed with it. Just call it rail.

High Speed Rail is 500+kmh.

Kingy said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

Nearly thirty boreholes being drilled in New South Wales will support critical geotechnical investigations required to determine the locations for the Albanese Government’s High-Speed Rail between Sydney and Newcastle.

The geotechnical investigations are being undertaken by the High Speed Rail Authority (HSRA) as part of the business case being developed for the first stage linking Sydney and Newcastle.

High-speed rail will connect Australian regions, cities and communities – delivering more job and lifestyle choices, greater housing options and new economic opportunities.

We are planning for a high-speed rail network that will connect Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne and regional communities across the east coast of Australia.

The first stage will connect Newcastle to Sydney – a nationally significant corridor – to create a fast, reliable and regular link between the two largest cities in NSW.

Work has started on drilling 27 boreholes in key areas between Newcastle and Sydney to better understand geological conditions along the route. The information from this work will help in:

determining the proposed depths of new rail tunnels; assessing geological and geotechnical conditions to cross the Hawkesbury River; and understanding the geological complexities of traversing the escarpment into the Central Coast and on to Newcastle.

https://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/c-king/media-release/all-aboard-high-speed-rail-accelerates-first-investigation-works

More here:
https://www.hsra.gov.au/project

Took some searching to find just how high speed they are talking about. It’s 250 km/h+, which is pretty fast.

That’s about the speed that my Kingswood did from Williams to Perth in 1984.

I’m not impressed with it. Just call it rail.

High Speed Rail is 500+kmh.

You really want the government to try build the fastest high-speed rail in the world with absolutely no prior experience in such a project?

Kingy said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

Nearly thirty boreholes being drilled in New South Wales will support critical geotechnical investigations required to determine the locations for the Albanese Government’s High-Speed Rail between Sydney and Newcastle.

The geotechnical investigations are being undertaken by the High Speed Rail Authority (HSRA) as part of the business case being developed for the first stage linking Sydney and Newcastle.

High-speed rail will connect Australian regions, cities and communities – delivering more job and lifestyle choices, greater housing options and new economic opportunities.

We are planning for a high-speed rail network that will connect Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne and regional communities across the east coast of Australia.

The first stage will connect Newcastle to Sydney – a nationally significant corridor – to create a fast, reliable and regular link between the two largest cities in NSW.

Work has started on drilling 27 boreholes in key areas between Newcastle and Sydney to better understand geological conditions along the route. The information from this work will help in:

determining the proposed depths of new rail tunnels; assessing geological and geotechnical conditions to cross the Hawkesbury River; and understanding the geological complexities of traversing the escarpment into the Central Coast and on to Newcastle.

https://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/c-king/media-release/all-aboard-high-speed-rail-accelerates-first-investigation-works

More here:
https://www.hsra.gov.au/project

Took some searching to find just how high speed they are talking about. It’s 250 km/h+, which is pretty fast.

That’s about the speed that my Kingswood did from Williams to Perth in 1984.

I’m not impressed with it. Just call it rail.

High Speed Rail is 500+kmh.

Nah, it is the accepted international definition of high speed rail, over 250 km/h for a new build line.

party_pants said:

Kingy said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

More here:
https://www.hsra.gov.au/project

Took some searching to find just how high speed they are talking about. It’s 250 km/h+, which is pretty fast.

That’s about the speed that my Kingswood did from Williams to Perth in 1984.

I’m not impressed with it. Just call it rail.

High Speed Rail is 500+kmh.

Nah, it is the accepted international definition of high speed rail, over 250 km/h for a new build line.

googles it

Ok, fair enough.

I was thinking about Japan and China’s high speed rail.

Even my Kingswood can’t keep up with those.

Kingy said:

party_pants said:

Kingy said:

That’s about the speed that my Kingswood did from Williams to Perth in 1984.

I’m not impressed with it. Just call it rail.

High Speed Rail is 500+kmh.

Nah, it is the accepted international definition of high speed rail, over 250 km/h for a new build line.

googles it

Ok, fair enough.

I was thinking about Japan and China’s high speed rail.

Even my Kingswood can’t keep up with those.

The early Japanese Shinkansen in the 1960s did around 210 km/h. Now the fastest one in Japan does 320. In China and Europe some go even faster, around 350.

But it becomes just as much about the enginering of the track as it does the trains themselves. The tracks very to be very straight and level, and very smooth and consistent. Excessive vibration and movement make passengers fill barth bags.

There’s no wheel-on-track train on Earth that goes 500 km/h in tegular service.

The Japanese Shikansen has a top of 320 km/h on some routes. The fastest conventional HSR in China is 350 km/h and the Indonesian line from Jakarta to Bandung is 360 km/h.
The French TGV has been run at 574 km/h in trials but in regular passenger service has a max of 320 km/h, as does Morocco’s Al Boraq.

The only lines higher than 400 km/h are Maglev. Shanghai Maglev tops at 431 km/h. That’s the fastest train in regular passenger service. Japan is working on an SCMaglev line which is expected to have a max of 500 km/h. The Japanese Maglev vehicle has reached 603 km/h in trials.

party_pants said:

Kingy said:

party_pants said:

Nah, it is the accepted international definition of high speed rail, over 250 km/h for a new build line.

googles it

Ok, fair enough.

I was thinking about Japan and China’s high speed rail.

Even my Kingswood can’t keep up with those.

The early Japanese Shinkansen in the 1960s did around 210 km/h. Now the fastest one in Japan does 320. In China and Europe some go even faster, around 350.

But it becomes just as much about the enginering of the track as it does the trains themselves. The tracks very to be very straight and level, and very smooth and consistent. Excessive vibration and movement make passengers fill barth bags.

Barf bags, rather than barth etc

dv said:

There’s no wheel-on-track train on Earth that goes 500 km/h in tegular service.

The Japanese Shikansen has a top of 320 km/h on some routes. The fastest conventional HSR in China is 350 km/h and the Indonesian line from Jakarta to Bandung is 360 km/h.
The French TGV has been run at 574 km/h in trials but in regular passenger service has a max of 320 km/h, as does Morocco’s Al Boraq.

The only lines higher than 400 km/h are Maglev. Shanghai Maglev tops at 431 km/h. That’s the fastest train in regular passenger service. Japan is working on an SCMaglev line which is expected to have a max of 500 km/h. The Japanese Maglev vehicle has reached 603 km/h in trials.

Yep, my bad. It was the 300kmh, not 500kmh that I was thinking of.

dv said:

There’s no wheel-on-track train on Earth that goes 500 km/h in tegular service.

The Japanese Shikansen has a top of 320 km/h on some routes. The fastest conventional HSR in China is 350 km/h and the Indonesian line from Jakarta to Bandung is 360 km/h.
The French TGV has been run at 574 km/h in trials but in regular passenger service has a max of 320 km/h, as does Morocco’s Al Boraq.

The only lines higher than 400 km/h are Maglev. Shanghai Maglev tops at 431 km/h. That’s the fastest train in regular passenger service. Japan is working on an SCMaglev line which is expected to have a max of 500 km/h. The Japanese Maglev vehicle has reached 603 km/h in trials.

Didn’t know about those maglev trains.

Guess I should try and keep up with these things.

They have let certain members of the media go on trial runs of that Maglev in Japan and they report that at top speed it is unpleasantly loud.

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

Nearly thirty boreholes being drilled in New South Wales will support critical geotechnical investigations required to determine the locations for the Albanese Government’s High-Speed Rail between Sydney and Newcastle.

The geotechnical investigations are being undertaken by the High Speed Rail Authority (HSRA) as part of the business case being developed for the first stage linking Sydney and Newcastle.

High-speed rail will connect Australian regions, cities and communities – delivering more job and lifestyle choices, greater housing options and new economic opportunities.

We are planning for a high-speed rail network that will connect Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne and regional communities across the east coast of Australia.

The first stage will connect Newcastle to Sydney – a nationally significant corridor – to create a fast, reliable and regular link between the two largest cities in NSW.

Work has started on drilling 27 boreholes in key areas between Newcastle and Sydney to better understand geological conditions along the route. The information from this work will help in:

determining the proposed depths of new rail tunnels; assessing geological and geotechnical conditions to cross the Hawkesbury River; and understanding the geological complexities of traversing the escarpment into the Central Coast and on to Newcastle.

https://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/c-king/media-release/all-aboard-high-speed-rail-accelerates-first-investigation-works

More here:
https://www.hsra.gov.au/project

Took some searching to find just how high speed they are talking about. It’s 250 km/h+, which is pretty fast.

Plenty of problems to overcome in getting this thing built.

Whatever will the kangaroos think?

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

There’s no wheel-on-track train on Earth that goes 500 km/h in tegular service.

The Japanese Shikansen has a top of 320 km/h on some routes. The fastest conventional HSR in China is 350 km/h and the Indonesian line from Jakarta to Bandung is 360 km/h.
The French TGV has been run at 574 km/h in trials but in regular passenger service has a max of 320 km/h, as does Morocco’s Al Boraq.

The only lines higher than 400 km/h are Maglev. Shanghai Maglev tops at 431 km/h. That’s the fastest train in regular passenger service. Japan is working on an SCMaglev line which is expected to have a max of 500 km/h. The Japanese Maglev vehicle has reached 603 km/h in trials.

Didn’t know about those maglev trains.

Guess I should try and keep up with these things.

you’ll need a good pair of runners.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-11-06/high-speed-rail-sydney-and-newcastle-another-step-closer/105978262

The completion of the business case opens the phase of specific design. The plan is for construction to commence in 2027 and commercial service to open in 2037, with the full “phase 1” including the line to Western Sydney Airport being complete in 2042.

Phase 1 includes 6 stations in total: Western Sydney Parramatta, Sydney Central, Central Coast, Lake Macquarie, Newcastle. This includes 194 km of track, of which 115 km is tunnelled, 41 km is surface, 38 km on bridges and viaduct.

Although no dates are given for the subsequent plans, they do lay out Phase 2 and 3.
Phase 2 would add three sections: Western Sydney to Canberra, Brisbane to Northern NSW, Melbourne to regional Victoria.
Phase 3 would fill in regional Victoria to Canberra, and Newcastle to Northern NSW.

The report is much as expected, but I am somewhat disappointed that the anticipated travel time from Sydney Central to Newcastle of “around 1 hour”.

The tunnel speed is anticipated to be 200 km/h, the open speed 320 km/h.

Given the general circuity of HSR routes and the obstacles I would hope that the Syd-Newc track distance should be no more than 140 km/h. Even allowing for acceleration, and stops, we should reasonably hope for total average journey speeds to be over 220 km/h, and hence journey times of more like 40 minutes.

One hopes that there are some express journeys from Newcastle to Sydney, not stopping at Lake Mac or Central Coast, and with travel times even shorter.

Also the mudmaps seem to show the line to Brisbane extending from Newcastle. Again … I hope there is ultimately a line built that bypasses Newcastle.

320 km/h is a somewhat modest ambition as there are regular services in China and Indonesia with top speeds of 360 km/h. The 200 limit in the tunnels is also a bit lower than is achieved in China.

—-

It might seem a bit disheartening that 194 km of a 1600 km will take ten years of construction but they are starting with the most expensive and tunnel-heavy leg of the project.

dv said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-11-06/high-speed-rail-sydney-and-newcastle-another-step-closer/105978262

The completion of the business case opens the phase of specific design. The plan is for construction to commence in 2027 and commercial service to open in 2037, with the full “phase 1” including the line to Western Sydney Airport being complete in 2042.

Phase 1 includes 6 stations in total: Western Sydney Parramatta, Sydney Central, Central Coast, Lake Macquarie, Newcastle. This includes 194 km of track, of which 115 km is tunnelled, 41 km is surface, 38 km on bridges and viaduct.

Although no dates are given for the subsequent plans, they do lay out Phase 2 and 3.
Phase 2 would add three sections: Western Sydney to Canberra, Brisbane to Northern NSW, Melbourne to regional Victoria.
Phase 3 would fill in regional Victoria to Canberra, and Newcastle to Northern NSW.

The report is much as expected, but I am somewhat disappointed that the anticipated travel time from Sydney Central to Newcastle of “around 1 hour”.

The tunnel speed is anticipated to be 200 km/h, the open speed 320 km/h.

Given the general circuity of HSR routes and the obstacles I would hope that the Syd-Newc track distance should be no more than 140 km/h. Even allowing for acceleration, and stops, we should reasonably hope for total average journey speeds to be over 220 km/h, and hence journey times of more like 40 minutes.

One hopes that there are some express journeys from Newcastle to Sydney, not stopping at Lake Mac or Central Coast, and with travel times even shorter.

Also the mudmaps seem to show the line to Brisbane extending from Newcastle. Again … I hope there is ultimately a line built that bypasses Newcastle.

320 km/h is a somewhat modest ambition as there are regular services in China and Indonesia with top speeds of 360 km/h. The 200 limit in the tunnels is also a bit lower than is achieved in China.

—-

It might seem a bit disheartening that 194 km of a 1600 km will take ten years of construction but they are starting with the most expensive and tunnel-heavy leg of the project.

On time and on budget, beautiful.

dv said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-11-06/high-speed-rail-sydney-and-newcastle-another-step-closer/105978262

The completion of the business case opens the phase of specific design. The plan is for construction to commence in 2027 and commercial service to open in 2037, with the full “phase 1” including the line to Western Sydney Airport being complete in 2042.

Phase 1 includes 6 stations in total: Western Sydney Parramatta, Sydney Central, Central Coast, Lake Macquarie, Newcastle. This includes 194 km of track, of which 115 km is tunnelled, 41 km is surface, 38 km on bridges and viaduct.

Although no dates are given for the subsequent plans, they do lay out Phase 2 and 3.
Phase 2 would add three sections: Western Sydney to Canberra, Brisbane to Northern NSW, Melbourne to regional Victoria.
Phase 3 would fill in regional Victoria to Canberra, and Newcastle to Northern NSW.

The report is much as expected, but I am somewhat disappointed that the anticipated travel time from Sydney Central to Newcastle of “around 1 hour”.

The tunnel speed is anticipated to be 200 km/h, the open speed 320 km/h.

Given the general circuity of HSR routes and the obstacles I would hope that the Syd-Newc track distance should be no more than 140 km/h. Even allowing for acceleration, and stops, we should reasonably hope for total average journey speeds to be over 220 km/h, and hence journey times of more like 40 minutes.

One hopes that there are some express journeys from Newcastle to Sydney, not stopping at Lake Mac or Central Coast, and with travel times even shorter.

Also the mudmaps seem to show the line to Brisbane extending from Newcastle. Again … I hope there is ultimately a line built that bypasses Newcastle.

320 km/h is a somewhat modest ambition as there are regular services in China and Indonesia with top speeds of 360 km/h. The 200 limit in the tunnels is also a bit lower than is achieved in China.

—-

It might seem a bit disheartening that 194 km of a 1600 km will take ten years of construction but they are starting with the most expensive and tunnel-heavy leg of the project.

All seems good other than the lack of a stop at Hornsby (or even Chatswood I suppose).

But with the horrible cost of tunnelling through rock it seems likely it will never happen.

The Rev Dodgson said:

But with the horrible cost of tunnelling through rock it seems likely it will never happen.

I’m pretty certain it will proceed now that the formal business case is presented.
It’s soitanly a lot of tunnel, about twice that required for the Sydney Metro projects are underway. They have been paying $90m per km, which would suggest a cost for the tunnels alone in phase 1 would be around $10B.

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

But with the horrible cost of tunnelling through rock it seems likely it will never happen.

I’m pretty certain it will proceed now that the formal business case is presented.
It’s soitanly a lot of tunnel, about twice that required for the Sydney Metro projects are underway. They have been paying $90m per km, which would suggest a cost for the tunnels alone in phase 1 would be around $10B.

That’s what they all said about the Sydney-Melbourne VFT back in ’91. :)

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

But with the horrible cost of tunnelling through rock it seems likely it will never happen.

I’m pretty certain it will proceed now that the formal business case is presented.
It’s soitanly a lot of tunnel, about twice that required for the Sydney Metro projects are underway. They have been paying $90m per km, which would suggest a cost for the tunnels alone in phase 1 would be around $10B.

That’s what they all said about the Sydney-Melbourne VFT back in ’91. :)

They said the Sydney to Melbourne VFT reached the stage of presenting an approved business case? I thought it was merely a proposal. So much to learn.

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

I’m pretty certain it will proceed now that the formal business case is presented.
It’s soitanly a lot of tunnel, about twice that required for the Sydney Metro projects are underway. They have been paying $90m per km, which would suggest a cost for the tunnels alone in phase 1 would be around $10B.

That’s what they all said about the Sydney-Melbourne VFT back in ’91. :)

They said the Sydney to Melbourne VFT reached the stage of presenting an approved business case? I thought it was merely a proposal. So much to learn.

They didn’t actually show me all the paperwork, but I do know when I returned to Canberra from Turkey in 1991 it was going to be the next big thing we were all going to be working on.

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

That’s what they all said about the Sydney-Melbourne VFT back in ’91. :)

They said the Sydney to Melbourne VFT reached the stage of presenting an approved business case? I thought it was merely a proposal. So much to learn.

They didn’t actually show me all the paperwork, but I do know when I returned to Canberra from Turkey in 1991 it was going to be the next big thing we were all going to be working on.

I also recall this comment on the proposed Fast Freight Train:

FFT? Now that is fast.

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

I’m pretty certain it will proceed now that the formal business case is presented.
It’s soitanly a lot of tunnel, about twice that required for the Sydney Metro projects are underway. They have been paying $90m per km, which would suggest a cost for the tunnels alone in phase 1 would be around $10B.

That’s what they all said about the Sydney-Melbourne VFT back in ’91. :)

They said the Sydney to Melbourne VFT reached the stage of presenting an approved business case? I thought it was merely a proposal. So much to learn.

we mean tunneling underwater with nuclear power will cost 40 times that and they’re promising it will happen so shrug

One of the things they’ll have to decide before the do much ohase 2 design is whether to run Canberra on a spur, or throughtun and tunnel under the ranges.

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

That’s what they all said about the Sydney-Melbourne VFT back in ’91. :)

They said the Sydney to Melbourne VFT reached the stage of presenting an approved business case? I thought it was merely a proposal. So much to learn.

They didn’t actually show me all the paperwork, but I do know when I returned to Canberra from Turkey in 1991 it was going to be the next big thing we were all going to be working on.

Okay well I’ll fill you in. VFT91 was a proposal from a private consortium that never went anywhere. It never even got to the loint where the consortium had a meeting with the government.

This is an Infrastructure Australia project that is now months into the engineering design phase.