Date: 18/08/2023 13:24:48
From: Cymek
ID: 2066314
Subject: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

Came across this paragraph in a PDF I’m reading

Campbell contended that planets capable of producing intelligent civilizations “must have heterogeneous and time-variable environments,” since on Earth evolution does not occur when environments are stable and homogeneous

 
Made me think is humanity forcing evolutionary change by destabilising the environment
You’d assume yes long term just bad for what’s alive now especially niche type life

Reply Quote

Date: 18/08/2023 13:35:40
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 2066315
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

Cymek said:

Came across this paragraph in a PDF I’m reading

Campbell contended that planets capable of producing intelligent civilizations “must have heterogeneous and time-variable environments,” since on Earth evolution does not occur when environments are stable and homogeneous

 
Made me think is humanity forcing evolutionary change by destabilising the environment
You’d assume yes long term just bad for what’s alive now especially niche type life

I don’t know about “does not occur”, but certainly periodic mass extinction events enhance the ability of the surviving genes to survive periodic mass extinction events.

How this works when you have a large dominant species with the ability to change its behaviour based on reasonable predictions of how its current behaviour is affecting the environment remains to be seen.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/08/2023 13:39:13
From: dv
ID: 2066316
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

Cymek said:

Came across this paragraph in a PDF I’m reading

Campbell contended that planets capable of producing intelligent civilizations “must have heterogeneous and time-variable environments,” since on Earth evolution does not occur when environments are stable and homogeneous

 
Made me think is humanity forcing evolutionary change by destabilising the environment
You’d assume yes long term just bad for what’s alive now especially niche type life

I mean is that a direct quote?

Print that shit out and burn it in protest. Untrue.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/08/2023 13:43:10
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 2066317
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

dv said:


Cymek said:
Came across this paragraph in a PDF I’m reading

Campbell contended that planets capable of producing intelligent civilizations “must have heterogeneous and time-variable environments,” since on Earth evolution does not occur when environments are stable and homogeneous

 
Made me think is humanity forcing evolutionary change by destabilising the environment
You’d assume yes long term just bad for what’s alive now especially niche type life

I mean is that a direct quote?

Print that shit out and burn it in protest. Untrue.

That’s a bit either-orist.

I mean the evolution that occurs during periods of stable climate may well reduce the ability to survive significant changes.

Reply Quote

Date: 18/08/2023 13:43:41
From: Cymek
ID: 2066318
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

dv said:


Cymek said:
Came across this paragraph in a PDF I’m reading

Campbell contended that planets capable of producing intelligent civilizations “must have heterogeneous and time-variable environments,” since on Earth evolution does not occur when environments are stable and homogeneous

 
Made me think is humanity forcing evolutionary change by destabilising the environment
You’d assume yes long term just bad for what’s alive now especially niche type life

I mean is that a direct quote?

Print that shit out and burn it in protest. Untrue.

Yes

Reply Quote

Date: 18/08/2023 14:20:53
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2066336
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

Cymek said:


dv said:

Cymek said:
Came across this paragraph in a PDF I’m reading

Campbell contended that planets capable of producing intelligent civilizations “must have heterogeneous and time-variable environments,” since on Earth evolution does not occur when environments are stable and homogeneous

 
Made me think is humanity forcing evolutionary change by destabilising the environment
You’d assume yes long term just bad for what’s alive now especially niche type life

I mean is that a direct quote?

Print that shit out and burn it in protest. Untrue.

Yes

An environmental change will force change of those living within the environment where there will be winners and losers. The winners will via natural selection increase the strength of their advantages and so evolve possibly into a new species. The losers will reduce in numbers or move to a more suitable environment or simply die out.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/08/2023 18:33:06
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2066842
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

What the fuck do you mean¿ It is someone else’s problem, this

could never happen in Australia, never has, never will.

Reply Quote

Date: 19/08/2023 18:35:30
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2066844
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

SCIENCE said:

What the fuck do you mean¿ It is someone else’s problem, this

could never happen in Australia, never has, never will.

Luckily if we have enough unprecedented unprecentedness, it becomes … wait …

Reply Quote

Date: 19/08/2023 19:40:24
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2066905
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

SCIENCE said:

SCIENCE said:

What the fuck do you mean¿ It is someone else’s problem, this

could never happen in Australia, never has, never will.

Luckily if we have enough unprecedented unprecentedness, it becomes … wait …


Sorry, forgot the image now included.

but

Capitalism Great¡


Reply Quote

Date: 19/08/2023 19:51:15
From: Kingy
ID: 2066906
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

SCIENCE said:

SCIENCE said:

SCIENCE said:

What the fuck do you mean¿ It is someone else’s problem, this

could never happen in Australia, never has, never will.

Luckily if we have enough unprecedented unprecentedness, it becomes … wait …


Sorry, forgot the image now included.

but

Capitalism Great¡



Luckily I don’t know anyone who has to deal with that kind of shit in Australia.

Reply Quote

Date: 20/08/2023 01:00:17
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2066957
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

Kingy said:

SCIENCE said:

SCIENCE said:

Luckily if we have enough unprecedented unprecentedness, it becomes … wait …


Sorry, forgot the image now included.

but

Capitalism Great¡



Luckily I don’t know anyone who has to deal with that kind of shit in Australia.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66535401

Thank Fuck Billionaires Are Building Rockets To Save Humanity From Earth¡ Everyone Will Benefit From Their …

… Wait.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/08/2023 03:40:12
From: Ogmog
ID: 2067224
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

PermeateFree said:

An environmental change will force change of those living within the environment where there will be winners and losers. The winners will via natural selection increase the strength of their advantages and so evolve possibly into a new species. The losers will reduce in numbers or move to a more suitable environment or simply die out.

+1

Reply Quote

Date: 21/08/2023 03:43:58
From: Ogmog
ID: 2067225
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

SCIENCE said:

What the fuck do you mean¿ It is someone else’s problem, this

could never happen in Australia, never has, never will.

from post ID: 2066842 on
it was both well thought out
and a hellova lotta fun to read
(and consider) ta

Reply Quote

Date: 21/08/2023 09:41:18
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2067234
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

Ian said:

Gingn

Bit of a change in the season..

Warm and windy conditions in New South Wales have fanned dozens of blazes across the state, with hundreds of firefighters mobilised to contain them throughout the weekend.

Key points:More than 70 fires are burning across NSW, following strong winds on FridayTwo fires reached Watch and Act alert level in the Clarence ValleyThe RFS warns fire danger season has begun in six parts of the state

Winds reaching 40 to 60 kilometres an hour on Friday created high-risk conditions, particularly on the mid-north coast, with crews still working on Sunday to contain fires.

Greg Allan, spokesperson for NSW RFS, said there were more than 70 bush or grass fires burning on Sunday evening, with about 20 still being contained.

“As of Sunday evening there are around 445 firefighters on the ground with about 150 trucks,” Mr Allan said.

About six aircraft were in use on Sunday, including the RFS Chinook waterbombing helicopter, used for the first time to help contain a fire at Kangaroo Creek Road, Coutts Crossing.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-20/nsw-fire-season-starts-as-crews-battle-70-blazes-in-strong-winds/102752616

..a few Ks away

Summer Fire Season Starts In Winter ¡

Laugh Out Loud ¡

Reply Quote

Date: 21/08/2023 11:19:33
From: transition
ID: 2067248
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

PermeateFree said:


Cymek said:

dv said:

I mean is that a direct quote?

Print that shit out and burn it in protest. Untrue.

Yes

An environmental change will force change of those living within the environment where there will be winners and losers. The winners will via natural selection increase the strength of their advantages and so evolve possibly into a new species. The losers will reduce in numbers or move to a more suitable environment or simply die out.

I dunno, I presume you believe culture to be essentially darwinian also, which i’d ask to what extent is it, and further, to what extent ought it be

darwinian notions can be a neat substitute for thinking, anyone can sound erudite and clear, completely bypass normal morality, bypass moral thought entirely if required

Reply Quote

Date: 21/08/2023 11:28:29
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 2067252
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

transition said:

darwinian notions can be a neat substitute for thinking, anyone can sound erudite and clear, completely bypass normal morality, bypass moral thought entirely if required

As can absolutely any other notions.

Nothing special about “darwinian notions” in that regard, whatever you may mean by “darwinian notions”.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/08/2023 11:32:02
From: transition
ID: 2067253
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

The Rev Dodgson said:


transition said:

darwinian notions can be a neat substitute for thinking, anyone can sound erudite and clear, completely bypass normal morality, bypass moral thought entirely if required

As can absolutely any other notions.

Nothing special about “darwinian notions” in that regard, whatever you may mean by “darwinian notions”.

yeah notions substituting for thinking

darwianian notions are a particularly powerful one, made it into popular culture, and have had a formalism historically to give the notions legitimacy, and have found their way into social and political philosophy

Reply Quote

Date: 21/08/2023 11:33:38
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 2067255
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

Pretty much on topic, sea temperature increases.
_______________________________________

The ocean plays an integral role in shaping our climate and weather patterns.

The warmer the ocean temperatures, the more power they give to weather systems — fuelling heavy rainfall and extreme bouts of heat by increasing evaporation and rearranging weather patterns.

CSIRO honorary fellow Dr Wenju Cai, who specialises in global climate variability and change, says it is only a matter of time before humans feel that power.

“I think we are definitely going to see a lot of extremes in the upcoming years simply because the system is more powerful,” he said.

“There is a great deal of energy in that ocean warming, and it could power so much more extreme events.”

Many climate scientists believe it already has.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-21/ocean-tempertature-records-2023/102701172

Reply Quote

Date: 21/08/2023 13:46:58
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2067271
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

Spiny Norman said:


Pretty much on topic, sea temperature increases.
_______________________________________

The ocean plays an integral role in shaping our climate and weather patterns.

The warmer the ocean temperatures, the more power they give to weather systems — fuelling heavy rainfall and extreme bouts of heat by increasing evaporation and rearranging weather patterns.

CSIRO honorary fellow Dr Wenju Cai, who specialises in global climate variability and change, says it is only a matter of time before humans feel that power.

“I think we are definitely going to see a lot of extremes in the upcoming years simply because the system is more powerful,” he said.

“There is a great deal of energy in that ocean warming, and it could power so much more extreme events.”

Many climate scientists believe it already has.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-21/ocean-tempertature-records-2023/102701172

Global sea surface temperature anomaly
July 31, 2023

A look at daily sea surface temperature anomalies from around the world shows most of the northern hemisphere and much of the southern hemisphere is currently flashing red.

Georgia Institute of Technology climate scientist Annalisa Bracco said what made this year’s ocean temperatures especially “peculiar” were how widespread the heat was.

“It’s been nearly everywhere,” she said.

During July, sea surface temperatures across much of the Mediterranean Sea were as much as 3 degrees Celsius higher than normal, with pockets up to 5.5C above average along the coasts of Italy, Greece and North Africa.

Dr Bracco said it was “very plausible” these warm ocean temperatures aided extreme weather events in 2023, although formal studies would be required to confirm it.

Scientists believe climate change has played a clear role in the ocean temperature spike.

The difference this year, they say, is that it has been superimposed over myriad natural climate drivers that are no longer disguising its full impacts as they have in the past.

Global CO2 emissions from fossil fuels
Highest = 37.1 billion metric tons

For decades, human activity has been emitting increasing levels of greenhouse gasses that have trapped more of the sun’s energy in the Earth’s system, warming the atmosphere, ocean and land.

Of this extra heat energy, about 90 per cent is stored in the oceans, according to the World Meteorological Organization (WMO).

Research has found once carbon dioxide is added to the atmosphere, it hangs about for 300 to 1,000 years.

Data from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) shows a general upward trend of sea surface temperatures since 1901, which have accelerated from the 1970s onwards.

Annual sea surface temperature

But Dr Cai said the true “pain” of this energy imbalance had been masked through many individual years by a countering cooling influence from various natural climate drivers, something that was missing this year.

“It’s like an anaesthetic to the pain caused by global warming,” he said.

“That anaesthetic is wearing out and we are now feeling it.”

Dr Cai said the most significant of these so-called anaesthetics was the La Niña climate pattern, the “cool” phase of the El Niño Southern Oscillation (ENSO), which occurred for three years in a row from 2020-2022.

The major climate driver features cooler-than-normal sea surface temperatures in the central and eastern equatorial Pacific, and warmer waters on the western side of the Pacific, in turn affecting rainfall and temperatures across the world.

The event has been linked to a significant reduction in average global surface temperatures, with the surface primarily made up of oceans.

The extra heat fostered by greenhouse gasses does not suddenly go missing during a La Niña climate pattern, it is just hidden below the sea’s surface.

With the triple-dip La Niña event now finished, Dr Cai said it was no longer there to act as a buffer.

“There is no break on global warming anymore, and so global warming will power up,” he said.

Instead, the world is staring down the barrel of El Niño — its opposite phase — which is known to raise global surface temperatures.

The last El Niño event was in 2015 to 2016, which also happened to be the warmest year on record for global average surface temperatures on land and sea.

But Dr Cai said the Earth this year was “eight years of background warming” worse off than in 2016.

Another part of the overall story is the melting of ice, Dr Cai says.


This year has already produced record high global ocean temperatures and low Antarctic sea ice. Supplied: Australian Antarctic Division

The bright, smooth surface of the ice reflects a lot of sunlight back into space, meaning its heat is not absorbed into the ocean.

The more it melts, the hotter the oceans get, and vice versa.

For this reason, Dr Cai said ice was the “most powerful atmospheric positive feedback in our Earth’s system”.

Antarctic sea ice extent this year has fallen to record lows and is struggling to recover substantially during the winter months like normal.

Antarctic sea ice anomaly
Daily sea ice extent compared to the 1980-2011 longterm average

Data shows sea ice deficit for July was 2.1 million square kilometres below average — an area bigger than the size of Queensland.

Arctic sea ice, and Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets, are also in decline and have been for decades.

These are just some of the factors lining up this year, with many more likely to be contributing.

Dr Collins said the exact anatomy of what had caused this year to see such extremes was a “puzzle that was going to occupy scientists for a few years”.

But the broader message from climate scientists is that, even though the background warming has this year been emphasised by natural drivers, it would not be the last year like it.

“There will be other years in the future where this happens, because there will be other years where the natural variability tips us into a warm year and that will be on top of an even warmer background trend ,” Dr Collins said.

Dr Bracco said this year’s record was indicative of a level of background global warming that could not be undone for hundreds of years, and urgent action was needed to stop it getting worse.

“It’s getting worrisome,” she said.

“I hope this is a situation that gets people, politicians and administrators together to act on it.”

As for this year, Dr Cai said with El Niño in its infancy, there was likely more heat to come and it would be harshest for those countries entering summer, including Australia.

El Niño had also been linked to increased global mean temperatures in the following year, according to the WMO.

But climate scientists have previously said Australia will not see a mirror of what was experienced in the northern hemisphere because of the local weather systems at play.

More detail.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-21/ocean-tempertature-records-2023/102701172

Reply Quote

Date: 21/08/2023 13:49:59
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2067272
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

transition said:


PermeateFree said:

Cymek said:

Yes

An environmental change will force change of those living within the environment where there will be winners and losers. The winners will via natural selection increase the strength of their advantages and so evolve possibly into a new species. The losers will reduce in numbers or move to a more suitable environment or simply die out.

I dunno, I presume you believe culture to be essentially darwinian also, which i’d ask to what extent is it, and further, to what extent ought it be

darwinian notions can be a neat substitute for thinking, anyone can sound erudite and clear, completely bypass normal morality, bypass moral thought entirely if required

Nature is not concerned with morals, nor with rights or wrongs.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/08/2023 13:56:00
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2067274
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

transition said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

transition said:

darwinian notions can be a neat substitute for thinking, anyone can sound erudite and clear, completely bypass normal morality, bypass moral thought entirely if required

As can absolutely any other notions.

Nothing special about “darwinian notions” in that regard, whatever you may mean by “darwinian notions”.

yeah notions substituting for thinking

darwianian notions are a particularly powerful one, made it into popular culture, and have had a formalism historically to give the notions legitimacy, and have found their way into social and political philosophy

There has been a great deal of thinking done about Darwinian notions by many highly intelligent and educated people, who unconditionally think Darwin and his theory are on the ball and which have been further refined since. Philosophy does not come into it other from your own opinion.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/08/2023 14:41:40
From: transition
ID: 2067282
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

PermeateFree said:


transition said:

PermeateFree said:

An environmental change will force change of those living within the environment where there will be winners and losers. The winners will via natural selection increase the strength of their advantages and so evolve possibly into a new species. The losers will reduce in numbers or move to a more suitable environment or simply die out.

I dunno, I presume you believe culture to be essentially darwinian also, which i’d ask to what extent is it, and further, to what extent ought it be

darwinian notions can be a neat substitute for thinking, anyone can sound erudite and clear, completely bypass normal morality, bypass moral thought entirely if required

Nature is not concerned with morals, nor with rights or wrongs.

that’s not insignificantly dismissive of a large part of human higher functions

a moral starter for you maybe, with a darwinian flavor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_morality

Reply Quote

Date: 21/08/2023 14:55:59
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2067285
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

transition said:


PermeateFree said:

transition said:

I dunno, I presume you believe culture to be essentially darwinian also, which i’d ask to what extent is it, and further, to what extent ought it be

darwinian notions can be a neat substitute for thinking, anyone can sound erudite and clear, completely bypass normal morality, bypass moral thought entirely if required

Nature is not concerned with morals, nor with rights or wrongs.

that’s not insignificantly dismissive of a large part of human higher functions

a moral starter for you maybe, with a darwinian flavor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_morality

In nature what individuals or groups of animals do it immaterial, if their actions aid their survival then it is a plus for them, but nature does not care whether they live or die, it just provides a structure for life and for them to live. Animals and plants have many aids for them to survive and make the best of their environment, and social morality is just one of these. Most birds have feathers and wings to fly to aid their survival, but nature did not design or make them, they evolved to accommodate the needs of these birds in the environment they found themselves.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/08/2023 14:58:21
From: transition
ID: 2067286
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

PermeateFree said:


transition said:

PermeateFree said:

Nature is not concerned with morals, nor with rights or wrongs.

that’s not insignificantly dismissive of a large part of human higher functions

a moral starter for you maybe, with a darwinian flavor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_morality

In nature what individuals or groups of animals do it immaterial, if their actions aid their survival then it is a plus for them, but nature does not care whether they live or die, it just provides a structure for life and for them to live. Animals and plants have many aids for them to survive and make the best of their environment, and social morality is just one of these. Most birds have feathers and wings to fly to aid their survival, but nature did not design or make them, they evolved to accommodate the needs of these birds in the environment they found themselves.

that sounds hardcore nutty

i’m picking a fight now, just in case you aren’t sure

Reply Quote

Date: 21/08/2023 15:00:39
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2067287
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

transition said:


PermeateFree said:

transition said:

that’s not insignificantly dismissive of a large part of human higher functions

a moral starter for you maybe, with a darwinian flavor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_morality

In nature what individuals or groups of animals do it immaterial, if their actions aid their survival then it is a plus for them, but nature does not care whether they live or die, it just provides a structure for life and for them to live. Animals and plants have many aids for them to survive and make the best of their environment, and social morality is just one of these. Most birds have feathers and wings to fly to aid their survival, but nature did not design or make them, they evolved to accommodate the needs of these birds in the environment they found themselves.

that sounds hardcore nutty

i’m picking a fight now, just in case you aren’t sure

No, it is just evolution, nature and the effects of habitats on living organisms.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/08/2023 15:02:00
From: transition
ID: 2067288
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

PermeateFree said:


transition said:

PermeateFree said:

In nature what individuals or groups of animals do it immaterial, if their actions aid their survival then it is a plus for them, but nature does not care whether they live or die, it just provides a structure for life and for them to live. Animals and plants have many aids for them to survive and make the best of their environment, and social morality is just one of these. Most birds have feathers and wings to fly to aid their survival, but nature did not design or make them, they evolved to accommodate the needs of these birds in the environment they found themselves.

that sounds hardcore nutty

i’m picking a fight now, just in case you aren’t sure

No, it is just evolution, nature and the effects of habitats on living organisms.

“In nature what individuals or groups of animals do it immaterial…”

book me in for a lobotomy, if you want agreement with that

Reply Quote

Date: 21/08/2023 15:06:57
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2067289
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

transition said:


PermeateFree said:

transition said:

that sounds hardcore nutty

i’m picking a fight now, just in case you aren’t sure

No, it is just evolution, nature and the effects of habitats on living organisms.

“In nature what individuals or groups of animals do it immaterial…”

book me in for a lobotomy, if you want agreement with that

Nature does not care if they live or die. If the organisms adapt sufficiently well to their habitat and reproduce, then that is a plus for them, but if the habitat changes and they cannot adapt to their new environment, they die. It is as simple as that, and the fossil record supports it.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/08/2023 15:19:26
From: transition
ID: 2067291
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

PermeateFree said:


transition said:

PermeateFree said:

No, it is just evolution, nature and the effects of habitats on living organisms.

“In nature what individuals or groups of animals do it immaterial…”

book me in for a lobotomy, if you want agreement with that

Nature does not care if they live or die. If the organisms adapt sufficiently well to their habitat and reproduce, then that is a plus for them, but if the habitat changes and they cannot adapt to their new environment, they die. It is as simple as that, and the fossil record supports it.

that’s a peculiarly narrow personal definition of nature there, vernacular that way for for your own conceptual reduction, which doesn’t bother me, but you do sound a bit like you’re shouting a law of nature, demanding it be so, exclaiming it is always so

Reply Quote

Date: 21/08/2023 15:23:46
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2067293
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

transition said:


PermeateFree said:

transition said:

“In nature what individuals or groups of animals do it immaterial…”

book me in for a lobotomy, if you want agreement with that

Nature does not care if they live or die. If the organisms adapt sufficiently well to their habitat and reproduce, then that is a plus for them, but if the habitat changes and they cannot adapt to their new environment, they die. It is as simple as that, and the fossil record supports it.

that’s a peculiarly narrow personal definition of nature there, vernacular that way for for your own conceptual reduction, which doesn’t bother me, but you do sound a bit like you’re shouting a law of nature, demanding it be so, exclaiming it is always so

It sounds like you are coming from a religious or philosophical position, neither of which have much or any connection to nature. Nature and everything related to it is based on scientific evidence.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/08/2023 15:27:12
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2067294
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

PermeateFree said:

transition said:

PermeateFree said:

Nature does not care if they live or die. If the organisms adapt sufficiently well to their habitat and reproduce, then that is a plus for them, but if the habitat changes and they cannot adapt to their new environment, they die. It is as simple as that, and the fossil record supports it.

that’s a peculiarly narrow personal definition of nature there, vernacular that way for for your own conceptual reduction, which doesn’t bother me, but you do sound a bit like you’re shouting a law of nature, demanding it be so, exclaiming it is always so

It sounds like you are coming from a religious or philosophical position, neither of which have much or any connection to nature. Nature and everything related to it is based on scientific evidence.

Hello ¡

Reply Quote

Date: 21/08/2023 15:28:13
From: transition
ID: 2067295
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

PermeateFree said:


transition said:

PermeateFree said:

Nature does not care if they live or die. If the organisms adapt sufficiently well to their habitat and reproduce, then that is a plus for them, but if the habitat changes and they cannot adapt to their new environment, they die. It is as simple as that, and the fossil record supports it.

that’s a peculiarly narrow personal definition of nature there, vernacular that way for for your own conceptual reduction, which doesn’t bother me, but you do sound a bit like you’re shouting a law of nature, demanding it be so, exclaiming it is always so

It sounds like you are coming from a religious or philosophical position, neither of which have much or any connection to nature. Nature and everything related to it is based on scientific evidence.

if culture (part of a human organism’s environment) has no influence on what has evolved (of biology) then why do subjects like sociobiology exist

Reply Quote

Date: 21/08/2023 15:48:44
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2067301
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

transition said:


PermeateFree said:

transition said:

that’s a peculiarly narrow personal definition of nature there, vernacular that way for for your own conceptual reduction, which doesn’t bother me, but you do sound a bit like you’re shouting a law of nature, demanding it be so, exclaiming it is always so

It sounds like you are coming from a religious or philosophical position, neither of which have much or any connection to nature. Nature and everything related to it is based on scientific evidence.

if culture (part of a human organism’s environment) has no influence on what has evolved (of biology) then why do subjects like sociobiology exist

Like I said in an earlier post, sociobiology might be an aid to survival for certain groups in certain environments. However, evolution is not a static situation and is highly reliant on environmental stability. Should the environment change then what advantaged you in the previous one might not apply in the new environment, and if they cannot adapt quickly enough to the new challenges, then they will perish.

Reply Quote

Date: 21/08/2023 15:56:26
From: transition
ID: 2067302
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

PermeateFree said:


transition said:

PermeateFree said:

It sounds like you are coming from a religious or philosophical position, neither of which have much or any connection to nature. Nature and everything related to it is based on scientific evidence.

if culture (part of a human organism’s environment) has no influence on what has evolved (of biology) then why do subjects like sociobiology exist

Like I said in an earlier post, sociobiology might be an aid to survival for certain groups in certain environments. However, evolution is not a static situation and is highly reliant on environmental stability. Should the environment change then what advantaged you in the previous one might not apply in the new environment, and if they cannot adapt quickly enough to the new challenges, then they will perish.

“…Nature and everything related to it is based on scientific evidence”

that^ above by the way doesn’t make sense, it’s silly

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Date: 21/08/2023 15:58:00
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2067303
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

PermeateFree said:


transition said:

PermeateFree said:

It sounds like you are coming from a religious or philosophical position, neither of which have much or any connection to nature. Nature and everything related to it is based on scientific evidence.

if culture (part of a human organism’s environment) has no influence on what has evolved (of biology) then why do subjects like sociobiology exist

Like I said in an earlier post, sociobiology might be an aid to survival for certain groups in certain environments. However, evolution is not a static situation and is highly reliant on environmental stability. Should the environment change then what advantaged you in the previous one might not apply in the new environment, and if they cannot adapt quickly enough to the new challenges, then they will perish.

>>Nature, in the broadest sense, is the physical world or universe. “Nature” can refer to the phenomena of the physical world, and also to life in general. The study of nature is a large, if not the only, part of science. Although humans are part of nature, human activity is often understood as a separate category from other natural phenomena. Wiki.

I think you might be confusing human activity with nature, which although playing a part is very much a small portion that might well disappear in the not-too-distant future.

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Date: 21/08/2023 16:09:59
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2067309
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

transition said:


PermeateFree said:

transition said:

if culture (part of a human organism’s environment) has no influence on what has evolved (of biology) then why do subjects like sociobiology exist

Like I said in an earlier post, sociobiology might be an aid to survival for certain groups in certain environments. However, evolution is not a static situation and is highly reliant on environmental stability. Should the environment change then what advantaged you in the previous one might not apply in the new environment, and if they cannot adapt quickly enough to the new challenges, then they will perish.

“…Nature and everything related to it is based on scientific evidence”

that^ above by the way doesn’t make sense, it’s silly

Repeat post:

>>Nature, in the broadest sense, is the physical world or universe. “Nature” can refer to the phenomena of the physical world, and also to life in general. The study of nature is a large, if not the only, part of science. Although humans are part of nature, human activity is often understood as a separate category from other natural phenomena. Wiki.

I think you might be confusing human activity with nature, which although playing a part is very much a small portion that might well disappear in the not-too-distant future.

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Date: 21/08/2023 16:14:10
From: transition
ID: 2067310
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

PermeateFree said:


transition said:

PermeateFree said:

Like I said in an earlier post, sociobiology might be an aid to survival for certain groups in certain environments. However, evolution is not a static situation and is highly reliant on environmental stability. Should the environment change then what advantaged you in the previous one might not apply in the new environment, and if they cannot adapt quickly enough to the new challenges, then they will perish.

“…Nature and everything related to it is based on scientific evidence”

that^ above by the way doesn’t make sense, it’s silly

Repeat post:

>>Nature, in the broadest sense, is the physical world or universe. “Nature” can refer to the phenomena of the physical world, and also to life in general. The study of nature is a large, if not the only, part of science. Although humans are part of nature, human activity is often understood as a separate category from other natural phenomena. Wiki.

I think you might be confusing human activity with nature, which although playing a part is very much a small portion that might well disappear in the not-too-distant future.

perhaps but doubt it, you could be confusing the study of nature with what is out there, the nature out there, nature.., much of which goes unstudied most of the time

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Date: 21/08/2023 16:35:29
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2067312
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

transition said:


PermeateFree said:

transition said:

“…Nature and everything related to it is based on scientific evidence”

that^ above by the way doesn’t make sense, it’s silly

Repeat post:

>>Nature, in the broadest sense, is the physical world or universe. “Nature” can refer to the phenomena of the physical world, and also to life in general. The study of nature is a large, if not the only, part of science. Although humans are part of nature, human activity is often understood as a separate category from other natural phenomena. Wiki.

I think you might be confusing human activity with nature, which although playing a part is very much a small portion that might well disappear in the not-too-distant future.

perhaps but doubt it, you could be confusing the study of nature with what is out there, the nature out there, nature.., much of which goes unstudied most of the time

I have provided you with a definition and of which I fully agree. Do you need more? And yes much is unstudied, but there are many very well trained and highly educated people looking very closely at it and given time, much will be added to our already considerable knowledge base.

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Date: 21/08/2023 16:59:07
From: transition
ID: 2067314
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

PermeateFree said:


transition said:

PermeateFree said:

Repeat post:

>>Nature, in the broadest sense, is the physical world or universe. “Nature” can refer to the phenomena of the physical world, and also to life in general. The study of nature is a large, if not the only, part of science. Although humans are part of nature, human activity is often understood as a separate category from other natural phenomena. Wiki.

I think you might be confusing human activity with nature, which although playing a part is very much a small portion that might well disappear in the not-too-distant future.

perhaps but doubt it, you could be confusing the study of nature with what is out there, the nature out there, nature.., much of which goes unstudied most of the time

I have provided you with a definition and of which I fully agree. Do you need more? And yes much is unstudied, but there are many very well trained and highly educated people looking very closely at it and given time, much will be added to our already considerable knowledge base.

last part of the propositions there was that the raw materials are largely unstudied, unstudied nature, it’s necessary, doesn’t bother me at all most of everything goes most of the time unstudied

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Date: 21/08/2023 17:14:38
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2067321
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

transition said:


PermeateFree said:

transition said:

perhaps but doubt it, you could be confusing the study of nature with what is out there, the nature out there, nature.., much of which goes unstudied most of the time

I have provided you with a definition and of which I fully agree. Do you need more? And yes much is unstudied, but there are many very well trained and highly educated people looking very closely at it and given time, much will be added to our already considerable knowledge base.

last part of the propositions there was that the raw materials are largely unstudied, unstudied nature, it’s necessary, doesn’t bother me at all most of everything goes most of the time unstudied

Sorry, I do not understand what point you are trying to make, assuming there is a point to make?

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Date: 21/08/2023 17:44:07
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2067334
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

PermeateFree said:


transition said:

PermeateFree said:

I have provided you with a definition and of which I fully agree. Do you need more? And yes much is unstudied, but there are many very well trained and highly educated people looking very closely at it and given time, much will be added to our already considerable knowledge base.

last part of the propositions there was that the raw materials are largely unstudied, unstudied nature, it’s necessary, doesn’t bother me at all most of everything goes most of the time unstudied

Sorry, I do not understand what point you are trying to make, assuming there is a point to make?

LOL

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Date: 21/08/2023 17:56:49
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2067336
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

SCIENCE said:


PermeateFree said:

transition said:

last part of the propositions there was that the raw materials are largely unstudied, unstudied nature, it’s necessary, doesn’t bother me at all most of everything goes most of the time unstudied

Sorry, I do not understand what point you are trying to make, assuming there is a point to make?

LOL

SB

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Date: 21/08/2023 19:30:30
From: SCIENCE
ID: 2067360
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

PermeateFree said:


SCIENCE said:

PermeateFree said:

Sorry, I do not understand what point you are trying to make, assuming there is a point to make?

LOL

SB

LOL

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Date: 25/08/2023 15:13:25
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 2068602
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

> since on Earth evolution does not occur when environments are stable and homogeneous

LOL.

Somebody’s never heard of mutation.

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Date: 25/08/2023 16:23:04
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2068616
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

mollwollfumble said:


> since on Earth evolution does not occur when environments are stable and homogeneous

LOL.

Somebody’s never heard of mutation.

Where did you get that quote from?

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Date: 25/08/2023 16:41:26
From: Cymek
ID: 2068625
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

PermeateFree said:


mollwollfumble said:

> since on Earth evolution does not occur when environments are stable and homogeneous

LOL.

Somebody’s never heard of mutation.

Where did you get that quote from?

Archaeology Anthropology and Interstellar Communication
It’s a series of papers on SETI and interstellar alien communication

Arguing that evolutionist George Gaylord Simpson had been too pessimistic, they even quantified the probability that both intelligence and technology would evolve, assuming life had originated on any given planet. That probability, they said, was 1 in 100. Campbell contended that planets capable of producing intelligent civilizations “must have heterogeneous and time-variable environments,” since on Earth evolution does not occur when environments are stable and homogeneous.

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Date: 25/08/2023 16:52:23
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 2068629
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

“ they even quantified the probability that both intelligence and technology would evolve, assuming life had originated on any given planet. That probability, they said, was 1 in 100.”

Pretty monumental arrogance to suppose you can evaluate any such statistic based on a sample of 1 planet.

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Date: 25/08/2023 16:55:38
From: dv
ID: 2068631
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

The Rev Dodgson said:


“ they even quantified the probability that both intelligence and technology would evolve, assuming life had originated on any given planet. That probability, they said, was 1 in 100.”

Pretty monumental arrogance to suppose you can evaluate any such statistic based on a sample of 1 planet.

This whole thing seems like junk, to be honest.

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Date: 25/08/2023 16:57:14
From: Bubblecar
ID: 2068632
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

dv said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

“ they even quantified the probability that both intelligence and technology would evolve, assuming life had originated on any given planet. That probability, they said, was 1 in 100.”

Pretty monumental arrogance to suppose you can evaluate any such statistic based on a sample of 1 planet.

This whole thing seems like junk, to be honest.

Maybe they’re talking about life on plasma moons.

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Date: 25/08/2023 17:14:35
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2068639
Subject: re: Anthropogenic climate change and evolution

Cymek said:


PermeateFree said:

mollwollfumble said:

> since on Earth evolution does not occur when environments are stable and homogeneous

LOL.

Somebody’s never heard of mutation.

Where did you get that quote from?

Archaeology Anthropology and Interstellar Communication
It’s a series of papers on SETI and interstellar alien communication

Arguing that evolutionist George Gaylord Simpson had been too pessimistic, they even quantified the probability that both intelligence and technology would evolve, assuming life had originated on any given planet. That probability, they said, was 1 in 100. Campbell contended that planets capable of producing intelligent civilizations “must have heterogeneous and time-variable environments,” since on Earth evolution does not occur when environments are stable and homogeneous.

Earth evolution can and does occur when environments are stable and homogeneous via mutations, but generally it happens at a much slower rate, whereas environmental changes are more immediate because of survival factors. However, past mutations that were retained but not used, may become vital if they are favored by the new environment thereby leading to organism modification and greater survival prospects.

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