came up in conversaton recently, sorry i don’t have any particular plant species in mind.
if a cutting was taken from a plant/tree that when mature has primarily a tap root, (this is assuming that cuttings will strike from plants with tap roots), will the cutting go on to develop a tap root like the parent plant, or will it simply grow a more fibrous root system instead?
If the answer is that the cutting will form a fibrous root system, firstly why, and what is actualy taking place here? Is it that there are cells/genes lacking from areas of the cuttings root system ie. the zone of division cells that i assume would have be contained in the embryo/seed? Had they been present in the cutting would the tap root form. I suppose these cells are not present in the above ground plant material or are they? I’m assuming that root cap and zone of maturation cells will form anyway from the cutting. If these will form then why not a tap root?
your experience on this matter would be greatly appreciated, thank you ?

trichome said:

came up in conversaton recently, sorry i don’t have any particular plant species in mind.
if a cutting was taken from a plant/tree that when mature has primarily a tap root, (this is assuming that cuttings will strike from plants with tap roots), will the cutting go on to develop a tap root like the parent plant, or will it simply grow a more fibrous root system instead?
If the answer is that the cutting will form a fibrous root system, firstly why, and what is actualy taking place here? Is it that there are cells/genes lacking from areas of the cuttings root system ie. the zone of division cells that i assume would have be contained in the embryo/seed? Had they been present in the cutting would the tap root form. I suppose these cells are not present in the above ground plant material or are they? I’m assuming that root cap and zone of maturation cells will form anyway from the cutting. If these will form then why not a tap root?
your experience on this matter would be greatly appreciated, thank you ?

trichome means something like root hairs ….?
too heavy for me – altho….. taking a cutting from something with a tap root is unusual – these usually propagate by seed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichome

I don’t know about taking cuttings from plants with tap roots, but I doubt if any cuttings would grow one themselves. My thinking would be that on germination of the seed, there is initially one root and one shoot. This root would form the tap root eventually but if it is cut at any stage then only side roots would form from then on. This principle is used in growing bonsai trees where at tap root is not suited for the shallow pots they use, so the tap root is pruned and this encourages the finer roots to form. Following from that, I suspect that cuttings would not have the genetic material to form a tap root. Something along the lines of stem cells maybe. The seed contains embryonic stem cells where as cuttings contain a different type of stem cell. This is all off the top of my head based on my own observations.

sounds good to me bluegreen, thanks :)

trichome said:

sounds good to me bluegreen, thanks :)

another thought is that it would be like cutting off the leader of a tree. This encourages side branches. We talk about training a new leader, but it’s really a side branch that we train into an upright position. The roots would behave much the same.

I would agree with Bluegreen but and I am struggling on how to word this correctly… i may have to come back to this topic… isn’t a “tap root” a misnomer? Doesn’t what happens underground happens in much the same way as BG’s description of what happens above? What I mean is that a central leader will sometimes naturally occur if the centre of a plant is lopped off, and won’t the roots do this?

http://i51.tinypic.com/2eprne0.gif

chose this image as somewhat of an example, so the tap root on the left, do you reckon it would form like that from a cutting or would the cutting go on to produce a more fibrous root system?

http://i51.tinypic.com/2eprne0.gif

trichome said:

http://i51.tinypic.com/2eprne0.gif

chose this image as somewhat of an example, so the tap root on the left, do you reckon it would form like that from a cutting or would the cutting go on to produce a more fibrous root system?

no. I don’t think you will get that sort of root structure from a cutting.

bluegreen said:

trichome said:

http://i51.tinypic.com/2eprne0.gif

chose this image as somewhat of an example, so the tap root on the left, do you reckon it would form like that from a cutting or would the cutting go on to produce a more fibrous root system?

no. I don’t think you will get that sort of root structure from a cutting.

I reckon you would end up with a root system that looked more like the other two examples, but you would certainly get a prominent root or two happening.

anyone have any documentation of how this works? I can understand how it wouldn’t form a tap root, because its not from seed, anywho, reading about it might clarify a little :)

trichome said:

anyone have any documentation of how this works? I can understand how it wouldn’t form a tap root, because its not from seed, anywho, reading about it might clarify a little :)

not me, sorry.

A little light reading on the subject ;)
http://www.springerlink.com/content/u05995604kxrr333/

If you took a carrot, a tap root of course, and cut the top off and planted it, does it grow another carrot?

Happy Potter said:

A little light reading on the subject ;)
http://www.springerlink.com/content/u05995604kxrr333/

If you took a carrot, a tap root of course, and cut the top off and planted it, does it grow another carrot?

no

what has carrots to do with anything?

your example link explanation of “Configuration and development of root systems of cuttings and seedlings of Eucalyptus globulus”. Yes i understand this, but you miss my question, why does it not form a tap root? What is going on for it not too? We have covered this in part, in so far as that, the particular cells/genes in question are perhaps not present in above ground plant material, (but would be present in the seed/embryo that would start the tree off with tap root growth). What i am seeking is documantation that discusses this. I have serarched a little but not yet found what i need to read. Your example does not expalin this, just says the tap root doesn’t form, and the cutting went on to grow an adventitious root system, which i might add, may not, in the long run be strong enough to support a tree like the Tasmanian Blue Gum, which may grow to 50m tall, or i ask, would it even get to that size from cuttings given the change in root system, (assuming that sufficient nutrient and water were available?

trchome..

I haven’t got into the meat of this thread yet.. but I’d reckon that whenn I do .. I’ll probably point out that it is generally pointless expecting a cutting to develop a tap root proper.. It will generally develop adventitious roots, then possibly progress to multi-tap roots (if the plant in question is a natural developer of the tap root system.

It cannot develop a true single tap root as such since the initial radicle does not exist.

Even a plant which is a true seedling which has been transplant comes under the same conditions as what I point out above. the tap root will branch early and become multiple..

roughbarked said:

Even a plant which is a true seedling which has been transplant comes under the same conditions as what I point out above. the tap root will branch early and become multiple..

^ if the initial radicle is broken off by pot cultivation or transplant it will develop multiple leaders..

roughbarked said:

^ if the initial radicle is broken off by pot cultivation or transplant it will develop multiple leaders..

ie; in a carrot or other similar, all you need is a halt in growth without breaking the root by your hand. soil cracking or both extremes of wet and dry are examples of such inhibition.

point out that it is generally pointless expecting a cutting to develop a tap root proper
…

i am not expecting anything, i did not say i was, it is pointles to say so. I am merely asking about this topic, as i am interested.
i agree with your other points. do you know of any documemntation on this that i can read?

trichome said:

point out that it is generally pointless expecting a cutting to develop a tap root proper
…

i am not expecting anything, i did not say i was, it is pointles to say so. I am merely asking about this topic, as i am interested.
i agree with your other points. do you know of any documemntation on this that i can read?

I probably do but at this time of night I’m not thinking too hard.

Surely you can search radicle.

Surely you can search radicle.
…

is this your way of suggesting a search topic?

This is a gardening forum and we have an arborist and horticulturalist on board. None of us has pretensions as a botanist. You might find a botanist here:

http://www2b.abc.net.au/science/scribblygum/

or maybe even here:

http://www2b.abc.net.au/science/k2/stn/ (Dr Karl’s Self Service Forum).

Dinetta said:

This is a gardening forum and we have an arborist and horticulturalist on board. None of us has pretensions as a botanist.

Quick to defend the the status of the forum. No one in this thread is suggesting otherwise, (however there does seem to be more general chat than garden topics, but it seems there are only a few forum members, most seem rather friendly). Good that mentioned professionals are aboard. I will look at the suggested forums for other/further research, thanks. However in the most part my questions have been answered, (did you not see that?) except perhaps some extra reading, and already stated that i am actively looking for.
You speak for the rest of the forum mebrers as no pretensions as a botanist, do others have this pretension?

trichome said:

Dinetta said:

This is a gardening forum and we have an arborist and horticulturalist on board. None of us has pretensions as a botanist.

Quick to defend the the status of the forum. No one in this thread is suggesting otherwise, (however there does seem to be more general chat than garden topics, but it seems there are only a few forum members, most seem rather friendly). Good that mentioned professionals are aboard. I will look at the suggested forums for other/further research, thanks. However in the most part my questions have been answered, (did you not see that?) except perhaps some extra reading, and already stated that i am actively looking for.
You speak for the rest of the forum mebrers as no pretensions as a botanist, do others have this pretension?

I think what we are trying to say here that you have reached the extent of our knowledge and resources on this matter. Interesting topic though and would be interested in hearing what you find out in your research.

trichome said:

Dinetta said:

This is a gardening forum and we have an arborist and horticulturalist on board. None of us has pretensions as a botanist.

Quick to defend the the status of the forum. No one in this thread is suggesting otherwise, (however there does seem to be more general chat than garden topics, but it seems there are only a few forum members, most seem rather friendly). Good that mentioned professionals are aboard. I will look at the suggested forums for other/further research, thanks. However in the most part my questions have been answered, (did you not see that?) except perhaps some extra reading, and already stated that i am actively looking for.
You speak for the rest of the forum mebrers as no pretensions as a botanist, do others have this pretension?

personally I see myself as a bullshitartist as much as I love my gardening, I am no expert and that is why I have not made any comments on this thread

trichome said:

Dinetta said:

This is a gardening forum and we have an arborist and horticulturalist on board. None of us has pretensions as a botanist.

Quick to defend the the status of the forum. No one in this thread is suggesting otherwise, (however there does seem to be more general chat than garden topics, but it seems there are only a few forum members, most seem rather friendly). Good that mentioned professionals are aboard. I will look at the suggested forums for other/further research, thanks. However in the most part my questions have been answered, (did you not see that?) except perhaps some extra reading, and already stated that i am actively looking for.
You speak for the rest of the forum mebrers as no pretensions as a botanist, do others have this pretension?

I just love gardening and plants. I understand very little about horticulture or botany. I find out what I need to know from here or books or the net. The company of nice, caring and (dare I say) average people keeps me coming back every day.

Completely off topic, but I’m curious about how you found this forum trichome. We’re a bit off the radar here. lol

trichome said:

Dinetta said:

This is a gardening forum and we have an arborist and horticulturalist on board. None of us has pretensions as a botanist.

Quick to defend the the status of the forum. No one in this thread is suggesting otherwise, (however there does seem to be more general chat than garden topics, but it seems there are only a few forum members, most seem rather friendly). Good that mentioned professionals are aboard. I will look at the suggested forums for other/further research, thanks. However in the most part my questions have been answered, (did you not see that?) except perhaps some extra reading, and already stated that i am actively looking for.
You speak for the rest of the forum mebrers as no pretensions as a botanist, do others have this pretension?

We do have more members but some don’t visit every day. Most of us have known each other for years.

This isn’t like most other forums, in fact it was created for just that reason.

“This forum is a place to ask all your gardening questions, talk about gardening achievements or just have a friendly chat about everything from pets, cooking, wildlife and photography to illness and weddings!:”

A lot is chat of a non gardening variety but they’s also a lot of garden advice given. There’s just a limit on what a small number of regulars can discuss about their gardens. Plus you seem to have arrived during a quiet spell. lol

I hope you enjoy the forum.

hello bubba louie
page 1 of Google hardly off the radar :)

trichome said:

hello bubba louie
page 1 of Google hardly off the radar :)

WOW I didn’t think we’d be so obvious. LOL

yes, right up there in google ranking it would seem.
actually this is a brilliant forum format :)

trichome said:

yes, right up there in google ranking it would seem.
actually this is a brilliant forum format :)

That’s how we wanted it. Most of us were members of the GA forum but when it changed to a message board format we didn’t like it.

One of the guys from the SSSF was kind enough to create this for us. No moderator as long as we play nice.

trichome said:

yes, right up there in google ranking it would seem.
actually this is a brilliant forum format :)

mind you, you had the wording exactly right!

we like this format too. I prefer it to the bulletin board style.

otherwise its page 2 googling gardening forum

trichome said:

otherwise its page 2 googling gardening forum

:D :D

bubba louie said:

Completely off topic, but I’m curious about how you found this forum trichome. We’re a bit off the radar here. lol

Maybe whats is name is back lmfao

trichome said:

hello bubba louie
page 1 of Google hardly off the radar :)

Mine must be then I dont show up on googles lol

The Estate said:

Maybe whats is name is back lmfao

do you have a screw loose? are you suggesting i am someone else?

pomolo said:

trichome said:

Dinetta said:

This is a gardening forum and we have an arborist and horticulturalist on board. None of us has pretensions as a botanist.

Quick to defend the the status of the forum. No one in this thread is suggesting otherwise, (however there does seem to be more general chat than garden topics, but it seems there are only a few forum members, most seem rather friendly). Good that mentioned professionals are aboard. I will look at the suggested forums for other/further research, thanks. However in the most part my questions have been answered, (did you not see that?) except perhaps some extra reading, and already stated that i am actively looking for.
You speak for the rest of the forum mebrers as no pretensions as a botanist, do others have this pretension?

I just love gardening and plants. I understand very little about horticulture or botany. I find out what I need to know from here or books or the net. The company of nice, caring and (dare I say) average people keeps me coming back every day.

Likewise here :) I also find that if I read all about some particular gardening thing in a book, it doesn’t sink in. I’d rather just go ahead and try something out for myself, and see what happens. Takes a few iterations to get things right, but what I learn this way really sinks in. So I’ve given up trying to learn the “best” way of doing anything, at least until I’ve had a few tries first.