If, as now seems possible, Archer sits as an independent and does not support the Premier, then it would mean an early election in Tasmania, which would probably be held in November or December.

The number of seats is being increased from 25 to 35.

Recent polling for the Liberals has not been great. The most recent EMRS poll had Lib 38%, ALP 32%, Greens 14%, Indies and other 15%. Tasmania uses a semi-proportional representation system: it’s hard to see the Libs getting more than 16 out of 35 on those numbers, but in reality it would probably depend on how those Indies and Others break.

dv said:

If, as now seems possible, Archer sits as an independent and does not support the Premier, then it would mean an early election in Tasmania, which would probably be held in November or December.

The number of seats is being increased from 25 to 35.

Recent polling for the Liberals has not been great. The most recent EMRS poll had Lib 38%, ALP 32%, Greens 14%, Indies and other 15%. Tasmania uses a semi-proportional representation system: it’s hard to see the Libs getting more than 16 out of 35 on those numbers, but in reality it would probably depend on how those Indies and Others break.

Anyone got a brief overview of how the new voting system works? I don’t really keep up with state politics in other states.

party_pants said:

dv said:

If, as now seems possible, Archer sits as an independent and does not support the Premier, then it would mean an early election in Tasmania, which would probably be held in November or December.

The number of seats is being increased from 25 to 35.

Recent polling for the Liberals has not been great. The most recent EMRS poll had Lib 38%, ALP 32%, Greens 14%, Indies and other 15%. Tasmania uses a semi-proportional representation system: it’s hard to see the Libs getting more than 16 out of 35 on those numbers, but in reality it would probably depend on how those Indies and Others break.

Anyone got a brief overview of how the new voting system works? I don’t really keep up with state politics in other states.

The voting system is unchanged, except that there will now be 7 reps per division instead of 5. There are five electoral divisions (Bass, Braddon, Clark, Franklin, Lyons) and people use preference voting to elect seven members in each division. It’s a bit similar to the Australian senate, except each of the five divisions has about the same population, and they each get a four year term.

The upper house on the other hand is elected from 15 single member electorates, but the elections are staggered: each year, only two or three electorates have their elections. Each member gets a six year term.

Tasmania is different.

dv said:

party_pants said:

dv said:

If, as now seems possible, Archer sits as an independent and does not support the Premier, then it would mean an early election in Tasmania, which would probably be held in November or December.

The number of seats is being increased from 25 to 35.

Recent polling for the Liberals has not been great. The most recent EMRS poll had Lib 38%, ALP 32%, Greens 14%, Indies and other 15%. Tasmania uses a semi-proportional representation system: it’s hard to see the Libs getting more than 16 out of 35 on those numbers, but in reality it would probably depend on how those Indies and Others break.

Anyone got a brief overview of how the new voting system works? I don’t really keep up with state politics in other states.

The voting system is unchanged, except that there will now be 7 reps per division instead of 5. There are five electoral divisions (Bass, Braddon, Clark, Franklin, Lyons) and people use preference voting to elect seven members in each division. It’s a bit similar to the Australian senate, except each of the five divisions has about the same population, and they each get a four year term.

The upper house on the other hand is elected from 15 single member electorates, but the elections are staggered: each year, only two or three electorates have their elections. Each member gets a six year term.

Tasmania is different.

We are returning to 35. Cutting the numbers to 25 was supposed to get rid of the Greens but it just caused shallow talent pools. Ministers overloaded with portfolios.

When they cut to 25 they gave themselves a 40% pay rise. I don’t suppose it will go the other way now.

Btw I do like my Hare/Clarke system. It’s very representative.

No representation without taxation

If you aren’t contributing you shouldn’t have any say

https://twitter.com/ErskineKristen/status/1708723932604563734

sarahs mum said:

https://twitter.com/ErskineKristen/status/1708723932604563734

So many morans getting paid to be moranic.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-04/elise-archer-to-quit-after-rockliff-ultimatum/102932404

Damn.I was looking forward to an election.

sarahs mum said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-04/elise-archer-to-quit-after-rockliff-ultimatum/102932404

Damn.I was looking forward to an election.

There will be one yet. Sooner or later they have to face the electors again.

Home Affairs Minister Clare O’Neil has accused Peter Dutton of “starving” the immigration system of resources and allowing criminal syndicates to exploit weaknesses.

roughbarked said:

Home Affairs Minister Clare O’Neil has accused Peter Dutton of “starving” the immigration system of resources and allowing criminal syndicates to exploit weaknesses.

Goodness Clare…say what you really mean!

Liberal party apologises to voice voters for giving advice labelled ‘blatant disregard’ of rules
People who took up party’s incorrect suggestion on applying for postal ballots could miss out on voting in referendum, MP warns
===
One South Australian voter, Peta, said she applied for a postal vote but after she received the letter from Liddle she called the AEC.

“The AEC didn’t even know I’d applied,” she told Guardian Australia. “It seemed very dodgy … It made me feel sick.”

Chaney said: “This blatant disregard for AEC guidelines by the Liberal party means vulnerable voters have not only given up their personal data but are now scrambling to cast their vote in time.

“This practice shows that political parties are more focused on harvesting data than protecting the integrity of our voting process.”

more..

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/09/indigenous-voice-to-parliament-referendum-liberal-party-apologises-postal-ballots

sarahs mum said:

Liberal party apologises to voice voters for giving advice labelled ‘blatant disregard’ of rules
People who took up party’s incorrect suggestion on applying for postal ballots could miss out on voting in referendum, MP warns
===
One South Australian voter, Peta, said she applied for a postal vote but after she received the letter from Liddle she called the AEC.

“The AEC didn’t even know I’d applied,” she told Guardian Australia. “It seemed very dodgy … It made me feel sick.”

Chaney said: “This blatant disregard for AEC guidelines by the Liberal party means vulnerable voters have not only given up their personal data but are now scrambling to cast their vote in time.

“This practice shows that political parties are more focused on harvesting data than protecting the integrity of our voting process.”

more..

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/09/indigenous-voice-to-parliament-referendum-liberal-party-apologises-postal-ballots

I find this quite concerning. Even requiring your information before passing you on the the AEC is a bit dodgy really. Perhaps it was not required, but was that explained?

buffy said:

sarahs mum said:

Liberal party apologises to voice voters for giving advice labelled ‘blatant disregard’ of rules
People who took up party’s incorrect suggestion on applying for postal ballots could miss out on voting in referendum, MP warns
===
One South Australian voter, Peta, said she applied for a postal vote but after she received the letter from Liddle she called the AEC.

“The AEC didn’t even know I’d applied,” she told Guardian Australia. “It seemed very dodgy … It made me feel sick.”

Chaney said: “This blatant disregard for AEC guidelines by the Liberal party means vulnerable voters have not only given up their personal data but are now scrambling to cast their vote in time.

“This practice shows that political parties are more focused on harvesting data than protecting the integrity of our voting process.”

more..

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/09/indigenous-voice-to-parliament-referendum-liberal-party-apologises-postal-ballots

I find this quite concerning. Even requiring your information before passing you on the the AEC is a bit dodgy really. Perhaps it was not required, but was that explained?

I was also sent the same thing from the local LNP member, but I didn’t bother looking at the paperwork and binned it.
So the No mob are complaining about the Yes mob spending a lot of money? How many millions has it cost the LNP – and by the LNP I mean us – to do that to what I presume is every voter in the country?

Spiny Norman said:

buffy said:

sarahs mum said:

Liberal party apologises to voice voters for giving advice labelled ‘blatant disregard’ of rules
People who took up party’s incorrect suggestion on applying for postal ballots could miss out on voting in referendum, MP warns
===
One South Australian voter, Peta, said she applied for a postal vote but after she received the letter from Liddle she called the AEC.

“The AEC didn’t even know I’d applied,” she told Guardian Australia. “It seemed very dodgy … It made me feel sick.”

Chaney said: “This blatant disregard for AEC guidelines by the Liberal party means vulnerable voters have not only given up their personal data but are now scrambling to cast their vote in time.

“This practice shows that political parties are more focused on harvesting data than protecting the integrity of our voting process.”

more..

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/09/indigenous-voice-to-parliament-referendum-liberal-party-apologises-postal-ballots

I find this quite concerning. Even requiring your information before passing you on the the AEC is a bit dodgy really. Perhaps it was not required, but was that explained?

I was also sent the same thing from the local LNP member, but I didn’t bother looking at the paperwork and binned it.
So the No mob are complaining about the Yes mob spending a lot of money? How many millions has it cost the LNP – and by the LNP I mean us – to do that to what I presume is every voter in the country?

We also received stuff from Dan Tehan in the mail. Twice, about a week apart. I wonder if this was the reason for the second mailout. I returned both to his office personally (It is in Hamilton and I shop in Hamilton) and told them it was a terrible waste of money because there was nothing in it different from what had already been supplied to me by the AEC.

Just create an enclave where the YES vote is the law and send all the YES voters to live there under its rule. Once they can’t leave , but then again, why would they want to leave racist bigot ?

buffy said:

Spiny Norman said:

buffy said:

I find this quite concerning. Even requiring your information before passing you on the the AEC is a bit dodgy really. Perhaps it was not required, but was that explained?

I was also sent the same thing from the local LNP member, but I didn’t bother looking at the paperwork and binned it.
So the No mob are complaining about the Yes mob spending a lot of money? How many millions has it cost the LNP – and by the LNP I mean us – to do that to what I presume is every voter in the country?

We also received stuff from Dan Tehan in the mail. Twice, about a week apart. I wonder if this was the reason for the second mailout. I returned both to his office personally (It is in Hamilton and I shop in Hamilton) and told them it was a terrible waste of money because there was nothing in it different from what had already been supplied to me by the AEC.

Well done.

Difficult to know how the various “communities “ will vote

Voting YES will bring about the downfall of Australia and a brief period of fire and bloodshed as each monoculture asserts its authority. Once the place has been torn to pieces the home country of the monoculture can come marching into the empty and burnt out cities then bulldoze the remains over into a flat surface and build over that.

I’d always wondered how civilisations fall, now I know.

The chinese built a wall, it was only breached when they themselves opened the doors !

Even if a NO votes Australia is a dead man walking anyway multiculturalism doesn’t work it always devolves into a fight for resources between the monocultures.

I always think back to ZARDOZ when I watched it years ago.

The ruling elite had become so stupid Arthur priam thinks its a good idea to clean out the existing order of tranquillity with violence and destruction

Sean connery and the boss lady set up home in a cave and its a happy ending

wookiemeister said:

I’d always wondered how civilisations fall, now I know.

The chinese built a wall, it was only breached when they themselves opened the doors !

And let all the rabbits in.

Peak Warming Man said:

wookiemeister said:

I’d always wondered how civilisations fall, now I know.

The chinese built a wall, it was only breached when they themselves opened the doors !

And let all the rabbits in.

Tell me about the rabbits, George

captain_spalding said:

Peak Warming Man said:

wookiemeister said:

I’d always wondered how civilisations fall, now I know.

The chinese built a wall, it was only breached when they themselves opened the doors !

And let all the rabbits in.

Tell me about the rabbits, George

I had to look that one up.

“When Lennie asks George to tell him about the rabbits What does George say?
Before they eat their dinner and go to sleep that night, Lennie asks George to tell him about the rabbits. George tells Lennie all about their dream to own their own ranch and “live of the fatta the lan. ‘” And Lennie gets to tend the rabbits on that ranch.”

But I’m still none the wiser.

Peak Warming Man said:

captain_spalding said:

Peak Warming Man said:

And let all the rabbits in.

Tell me about the rabbits, George

I had to look that one up.

“When Lennie asks George to tell him about the rabbits What does George say?
Before they eat their dinner and go to sleep that night, Lennie asks George to tell him about the rabbits. George tells Lennie all about their dream to own their own ranch and “live of the fatta the lan. ‘” And Lennie gets to tend the rabbits on that ranch.”

But I’m still none the wiser.

You should try the BingBot:

“George has Lennie look down across the river while he tells him about the rabbits to distract him from the fact that he has killed Curley’s wife12. George is so overcome with remorse that he cannot scold Lennie but must save him from Curley’s cruelty1. George tells Lennie that what he has done doesn’t matter and that they can still fulfill their dream2. George hears the sound of men in the distance and has Lennie look across the river so he can almost see the little farm that they will someday own2.”

captain_spalding said:

Peak Warming Man said:

wookiemeister said:

I’d always wondered how civilisations fall, now I know.

The chinese built a wall, it was only breached when they themselves opened the doors !

And let all the rabbits in.

Tell me about the rabbits, George

Emperor Nasi Goreng…

Spiny Norman said:

buffy said:

sarahs mum said:

Liberal party apologises to voice voters for giving advice labelled ‘blatant disregard’ of rules
People who took up party’s incorrect suggestion on applying for postal ballots could miss out on voting in referendum, MP warns
===
One South Australian voter, Peta, said she applied for a postal vote but after she received the letter from Liddle she called the AEC.

“The AEC didn’t even know I’d applied,” she told Guardian Australia. “It seemed very dodgy … It made me feel sick.”

Chaney said: “This blatant disregard for AEC guidelines by the Liberal party means vulnerable voters have not only given up their personal data but are now scrambling to cast their vote in time.

“This practice shows that political parties are more focused on harvesting data than protecting the integrity of our voting process.”

more..

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/09/indigenous-voice-to-parliament-referendum-liberal-party-apologises-postal-ballots

I find this quite concerning. Even requiring your information before passing you on the the AEC is a bit dodgy really. Perhaps it was not required, but was that explained?

I was also sent the same thing from the local LNP member, but I didn’t bother looking at the paperwork and binned it.
So the No mob are complaining about the Yes mob spending a lot of money? How many millions has it cost the LNP – and by the LNP I mean us – to do that to what I presume is every voter in the country?

it’s all Labor’s fault!

Peak Warming Man said:

captain_spalding said:

Peak Warming Man said:

And let all the rabbits in.

Tell me about the rabbits, George

I had to look that one up.

“When Lennie asks George to tell him about the rabbits What does George say?
Before they eat their dinner and go to sleep that night, Lennie asks George to tell him about the rabbits. George tells Lennie all about their dream to own their own ranch and “live of the fatta the lan. ‘” And Lennie gets to tend the rabbits on that ranch.”

But I’m still none the wiser.

Lennie is a tragic figure in John Steinbeck’s novel ‘Of Mice and Men’.

captain_spalding said:

Peak Warming Man said:

captain_spalding said:

Tell me about the rabbits, George

I had to look that one up.

“When Lennie asks George to tell him about the rabbits What does George say?
Before they eat their dinner and go to sleep that night, Lennie asks George to tell him about the rabbits. George tells Lennie all about their dream to own their own ranch and “live of the fatta the lan. ‘” And Lennie gets to tend the rabbits on that ranch.”

But I’m still none the wiser.

Lennie is a tragic figure in John Steinbeck’s novel ‘Of Mice and Men’.

Ta.

“When Lennie asks George to tell him about the rabbits What does George say?
Before they eat their dinner and go to sleep that night, Lennie asks George to tell him about the rabbits. George tells Lennie all about their dream to own their own ranch and “live of the fatta the lan. ‘’

—

Fuck off.

I’m not that fat.. try bubbles or boris..

Ian said:

“When Lennie asks George to tell him about the rabbits What does George say?
Before they eat their dinner and go to sleep that night, Lennie asks George to tell him about the rabbits. George tells Lennie all about their dream to own their own ranch and “live of the fatta the lan. ‘’

—

Fuck off.

I’m not that fat.. try bubbles or boris..

I’m big boned thank you very much!!!

Bogsnorkler said:

Spiny Norman said:

buffy said:

I find this quite concerning. Even requiring your information before passing you on the the AEC is a bit dodgy really. Perhaps it was not required, but was that explained?

I was also sent the same thing from the local LNP member, but I didn’t bother looking at the paperwork and binned it.
So the No mob are complaining about the Yes mob spending a lot of money? How many millions has it cost the LNP – and by the LNP I mean us – to do that to what I presume is every voter in the country?

it’s all Labor’s fault!

Apparently they should have put up the banns (yes, I know it’s not called that) at the same time as they announced the date. I can’t remember…do we usually know an election date prior to the writs?

buffy said:

Bogsnorkler said:

Spiny Norman said:

I was also sent the same thing from the local LNP member, but I didn’t bother looking at the paperwork and binned it.
So the No mob are complaining about the Yes mob spending a lot of money? How many millions has it cost the LNP – and by the LNP I mean us – to do that to what I presume is every voter in the country?

it’s all Labor’s fault!

Apparently they should have put up the banns (yes, I know it’s not called that) at the same time as they announced the date. I can’t remember…do we usually know an election date prior to the writs?

I can’t remember it as uncommon to announce a date and keep the registrations for new voters still open for a time.

sarahs mum said:

buffy said:

Bogsnorkler said:

it’s all Labor’s fault!

Apparently they should have put up the banns (yes, I know it’s not called that) at the same time as they announced the date. I can’t remember…do we usually know an election date prior to the writs?

I can’t remember it as uncommon to announce a date and keep the registrations for new voters still open for a time.

I would have thought that was the case. I’m not sure if I am misleading myself though.

buffy said:

sarahs mum said:

buffy said:

Apparently they should have put up the banns (yes, I know it’s not called that) at the same time as they announced the date. I can’t remember…do we usually know an election date prior to the writs?

I can’t remember it as uncommon to announce a date and keep the registrations for new voters still open for a time.

I would have thought that was the case. I’m not sure if I am misleading myself though.

Putting shit on the AEC is new though.

sarahs mum said:

buffy said:

sarahs mum said:

I can’t remember it as uncommon to announce a date and keep the registrations for new voters still open for a time.

I would have thought that was the case. I’m not sure if I am misleading myself though.

Putting shit on the AEC is new though.

I reckon it is an import.

sarahs mum said:

sarahs mum said:

buffy said:

I would have thought that was the case. I’m not sure if I am misleading myself though.

Putting shit on the AEC is new though.

I reckon it is an import.

Monkey see, monkey do.

There have always been conspiracy theories but, I don’t know, they just seem a lot dumber these days. Like they don’t even make sense as a story.

dv said:

There have always been conspiracy theories but, I don’t know, they just seem a lot dumber these days. Like they don’t even make sense as a story.

They don’t have to make sense.

They just have to jibe with whatever random electrical impulse is firing through the few functioning neurons in the brain of e.g. a Trump voter at that moment.

You might as well ponder on the reasons why a housefly decides to take off at a particular moment,

dv said:

There have always been conspiracy theories but, I don’t know, they just seem a lot dumber these days. Like they don’t even make sense as a story.

I’ve noted that and was alert and maybe even alarmed to see a docco on Argentina and the young folk were saying that they wanted a leader like Trump and all the others like Bosanaro etc.

captain_spalding said:

dv said:

There have always been conspiracy theories but, I don’t know, they just seem a lot dumber these days. Like they don’t even make sense as a story.

They don’t have to make sense.

They just have to jibe with whatever random electrical impulse is firing through the few functioning neurons in the brain of e.g. a Trump voter at that moment.

You might as well ponder on the reasons why a housefly decides to take off at a particular moment,

Usually because I’m trying to clap my hands just above and back a bit.

STEMocracy

dv said:

Yep, you’ve got to shut down these black activist, it’s the only way.

dv said:

they could have at least used a pic of a phone not from 2003

diddly-squat said:

dv said:

they could have at least used a pic of a phone not from 2003

IDK I thought it was a nice touch

Nine News have published a poll by Strategic Resolve.

Headline data

Voting intention: ALP 57 Coalition 43 two party preferred

Preferred PM: Albo 47 Dutton 25 Dunno 28

Voice: no 56 yes 44

This does represent a bit of improvement for Yes

dv said:

Nine News have published a poll by Strategic Resolve.

Headline data

Voting intention: ALP 57 Coalition 43 two party preferred

Preferred PM: Albo 47 Dutton 25 Dunno 28

Voice: no 56 yes 44

This does represent a bit of improvement for Yes

Too little too late.

This is the sort of nonsense being bandied about on some groups in F/B- complete and utter BS coming from the no people…

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

Nine News have published a poll by Strategic Resolve.

Headline data

Voting intention: ALP 57 Coalition 43 two party preferred

Preferred PM: Albo 47 Dutton 25 Dunno 28

Voice: no 56 yes 44

This does represent a bit of improvement for Yes

Too little too late.

The counting hasn’t started yet.

dv said:

Nine News have published a poll by Strategic Resolve.

Headline data

Voting intention: ALP 57 Coalition 43 two party preferred

Preferred PM: Albo 47 Dutton 25 Dunno 28

Voice: no 56 yes 44

This does represent a bit of improvement for Yes

it’s hard for me look at this and not think that Albo has ballzed up the referendum thoroughly…

diddly-squat said:

dv said:

Nine News have published a poll by Strategic Resolve.

Headline data

Voting intention: ALP 57 Coalition 43 two party preferred

Preferred PM: Albo 47 Dutton 25 Dunno 28

Voice: no 56 yes 44

This does represent a bit of improvement for Yes

it’s hard for me look at this and not think that Albo has ballzed up the referendum thoroughly…

It’s probably the kind of thing that can only be done when there’s a moderate Coalition leader on board. Only Nixon could go to China.

dv said:

diddly-squat said:

dv said:

Nine News have published a poll by Strategic Resolve.

Headline data

Voting intention: ALP 57 Coalition 43 two party preferred

Preferred PM: Albo 47 Dutton 25 Dunno 28

Voice: no 56 yes 44

This does represent a bit of improvement for Yes

it’s hard for me look at this and not think that Albo has ballzed up the referendum thoroughly…

It’s probably the kind of thing that can only be done when there’s a moderate Coalition leader on board. Only Nixon could go to China.

yep.. the absence of bi-partisan support has just turned it into a wedge issue, which in reality, I’m sure, Albo knew was a very real risk.

diddly-squat said:

dv said:

Nine News have published a poll by Strategic Resolve.

Headline data

Voting intention: ALP 57 Coalition 43 two party preferred

Preferred PM: Albo 47 Dutton 25 Dunno 28

Voice: no 56 yes 44

This does represent a bit of improvement for Yes

it’s hard for me look at this and not think that Albo has ballzed up the referendum thoroughly…

I don’t see what Albo could have done that would have made much difference. If you have the Lib leader + all his meeja mates dead set against it + a handful of high profile people you would expect to be supporters, it’s pretty well doomed.

Maybe it is just the weight of argument.

Peak Warming Man said:

Maybe it is just the weight of argument.

LOL. Pity we don’t have a friday funnies thread anymore.

I suppose it is not quite beyond hope. There are still quite a few undecideds.

In addition to the lack of bipartisan support, perhaps a lot of people see it as an experiment with the Constitution (not something to be done casually), where the mechanisms to be brought in are vaguely-expressed, the production the espoused benefits is uncertain at best, and the morality/equality of the goal less instinctively recognised than in the 1967 referendum.

Which leaves a lot of little cracks into which the ‘No’ campaign can insert levers.

dv said:

It’s probably the kind of thing that can only be done when there’s a moderate Coalition leader on board. Only Nixon could go to China.

So never then…

boppa said:

dv said:

It’s probably the kind of thing that can only be done when there’s a moderate Coalition leader on board. Only Nixon could go to China.

So never then…

(shrugs) I would imagine this may have gone a bit differently in the Turnbull era.

dv said:

diddly-squat said:

dv said:

Nine News have published a poll by Strategic Resolve.

Headline data

Voting intention: ALP 57 Coalition 43 two party preferred

Preferred PM: Albo 47 Dutton 25 Dunno 28

Voice: no 56 yes 44

This does represent a bit of improvement for Yes

it’s hard for me look at this and not think that Albo has ballzed up the referendum thoroughly…

It’s probably the kind of thing that can only be done when there’s a moderate Coalition leader on board. Only Nixon could go to China.

And Kirk to Kronos

Cymek said:

dv said:

diddly-squat said:

it’s hard for me look at this and not think that Albo has ballzed up the referendum thoroughly…

It’s probably the kind of thing that can only be done when there’s a moderate Coalition leader on board. Only Nixon could go to China.

And Kirk to Kronos

The Rev Dodgson said:

diddly-squat said:

dv said:

Nine News have published a poll by Strategic Resolve.

Headline data

Voting intention: ALP 57 Coalition 43 two party preferred

Preferred PM: Albo 47 Dutton 25 Dunno 28

Voice: no 56 yes 44

This does represent a bit of improvement for Yes

it’s hard for me look at this and not think that Albo has ballzed up the referendum thoroughly…

I don’t see what Albo could have done that would have made much difference. If you have the Lib leader + all his meeja mates dead set against it + a handful of high profile people you would expect to be supporters, it’s pretty well doomed.

He shouldn’t have made it a condition of his tenure.. instead he could have said that he would work to build bi-partisan support so that the issue could be brought to the Australian people. This would have placed the pressure on the LibNats to comer to the table. By going it alone he gave the opposition the opportunity to create a political wedge.

diddly-squat said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

diddly-squat said:

it’s hard for me look at this and not think that Albo has ballzed up the referendum thoroughly…

I don’t see what Albo could have done that would have made much difference. If you have the Lib leader + all his meeja mates dead set against it + a handful of high profile people you would expect to be supporters, it’s pretty well doomed.

He shouldn’t have made it a condition of his tenure.. instead he could have said that he would work to build bi-partisan support so that the issue could be brought to the Australian people. This would have placed the pressure on the LibNats to comer to the table. By going it alone he gave the opposition the opportunity to create a political wedge.

what he should have been doing in every parliamentary sitting and in every press conference is asking why the LibNats are against recognising Australia’s first people in the constitution.. make the voice argument secondary.. then once you have the support of the LibNats the voice is a shoe in and if they never give support then it would have been “their” fault..

diddly-squat said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

diddly-squat said:

it’s hard for me look at this and not think that Albo has ballzed up the referendum thoroughly…

I don’t see what Albo could have done that would have made much difference. If you have the Lib leader + all his meeja mates dead set against it + a handful of high profile people you would expect to be supporters, it’s pretty well doomed.

He shouldn’t have made it a condition of his tenure.. instead he could have said that he would work to build bi-partisan support so that the issue could be brought to the Australian people. This would have placed the pressure on the LibNats to comer to the table. By going it alone he gave the opposition the opportunity to create a political wedge.

Fair call.

Michael V said:

diddly-squat said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I don’t see what Albo could have done that would have made much difference. If you have the Lib leader + all his meeja mates dead set against it + a handful of high profile people you would expect to be supporters, it’s pretty well doomed.

He shouldn’t have made it a condition of his tenure.. instead he could have said that he would work to build bi-partisan support so that the issue could be brought to the Australian people. This would have placed the pressure on the LibNats to comer to the table. By going it alone he gave the opposition the opportunity to create a political wedge.

Fair call.

Dutton was invited.
But Dutton refused to come to the table.

sarahs mum said:

Michael V said:

diddly-squat said:

He shouldn’t have made it a condition of his tenure.. instead he could have said that he would work to build bi-partisan support so that the issue could be brought to the Australian people. This would have placed the pressure on the LibNats to comer to the table. By going it alone he gave the opposition the opportunity to create a political wedge.

Fair call.

Dutton was invited.
But Dutton refused to come to the table.

True, but Dutton is a known political wedger.

d-s’s approach to this is probably a better one.

Michael V said:

sarahs mum said:

Michael V said:

Fair call.

Dutton was invited.
But Dutton refused to come to the table.

True, but Dutton is a known political wedger.

d-s’s approach to this is probably a better one.

Are they really being wedged though? History will judge this referendum an honourable failure with Dutton and his ilk coming out of it as dishonest wreckers who are lackeys of the Murdoch press and the IPA. I can’t see there being any electoral blowback for Labor or Albo and as the states move to Voices and treaties on their own, people will see the sky hasn’t fallen in and blame the Coalition for lying to them.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Michael V said:

sarahs mum said:

Dutton was invited.
But Dutton refused to come to the table.

True, but Dutton is a known political wedger.

d-s’s approach to this is probably a better one.

Are they really being wedged though? History will judge this referendum an honourable failure with Dutton and his ilk coming out of it as dishonest wreckers who are lackeys of the Murdoch press and the IPA. I can’t see there being any electoral blowback for Labor or Albo and as the states move to Voices and treaties on their own, people will see the sky hasn’t fallen in and blame the Coalition for lying to them.

Except for the people who regard the aborigines as second class citizens. A NO vote will confirm their view.

I heard a woman on the tv say “Skin colour should not matter. It is what people achieve that matters.” So according to this woman aborigines must achieve while having no intergenerational wealth, worse funded schools etc.

And they get to live somewhere between dirty unemployed and ‘I wouldn’t employ one of them.’

sarahs mum said:

Michael V said:

diddly-squat said:

He shouldn’t have made it a condition of his tenure.. instead he could have said that he would work to build bi-partisan support so that the issue could be brought to the Australian people. This would have placed the pressure on the LibNats to comer to the table. By going it alone he gave the opposition the opportunity to create a political wedge.

Fair call.

Dutton was invited.
But Dutton refused to come to the table.

but by that stage Albo had already said that “this will happen in the first term of his government”… it was this statement that was the mistake (if Albo didn’t do it, it would have been a broken promise) as it allowed the LibNats to use it as a political wedge.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Michael V said:

sarahs mum said:

Dutton was invited.
But Dutton refused to come to the table.

True, but Dutton is a known political wedger.

d-s’s approach to this is probably a better one.

Are they really being wedged though? History will judge this referendum an honourable failure with Dutton and his ilk coming out of it as dishonest wreckers who are lackeys of the Murdoch press and the IPA. I can’t see there being any electoral blowback for Labor or Albo and as the states move to Voices and treaties on their own, people will see the sky hasn’t fallen in and blame the Coalition for lying to them.

my point is that Albo is the one that made it about politics by making his statement.. I’m not even the slightest bit concerned about the electoral fallout (either way). My concern is that the referendum is likely to fail because there was no consensus built for the change.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Are they really being wedged though? History will judge this referendum an honourable failure with Dutton and his ilk coming out of it as dishonest wreckers who are lackeys of the Murdoch press and the IPA. I can’t see there being any electoral blowback for Labor or Albo and as the states move to Voices and treaties on their own, people will see the sky hasn’t fallen in and blame the Coalition for lying to them.

Well the ‘coal’alition has been lying to the Australian public as long as I have been voting (and I went past 50 a while back) and people are STILL voting for them…
I suspect that no matter how big the lies get (and with dutton involved, I am expecting a ‘trumpian’ level of lies coming from him- it’s been his line all along) those people will still continue to vote for them…

Already seeing the ‘I’m not a racist, BUTTT….’ garbage coming from the right…
No, but you are comfortable in a party that racists feel comfortable in….

Witty Rejoinder said:

Michael V said:

sarahs mum said:

Dutton was invited.
But Dutton refused to come to the table.

True, but Dutton is a known political wedger.

d-s’s approach to this is probably a better one.

Are they really being wedged though? History will judge this referendum an honourable failure with Dutton and his ilk coming out of it as dishonest wreckers who are lackeys of the Murdoch press and the IPA. I can’t see there being any electoral blowback for Labor or Albo and as the states move to Voices and treaties on their own, people will see the sky hasn’t fallen in and blame the Coalition for lying to them.

The public have very short memories, plus LNP supporters seem to have impervious consciouses when it comes to lies.

Wow damn between

It is believed the capsule fell from a truck transporting equipment from a Rio Tinto minesite, but the investigation cleared the company of any wrongdoing earlier this year.

blowing up cultural significance and contaminating the natural environment does this company have like more immunity than the fucking QANTs at QANTAS¿¡

SCIENCE said:

Wow damn between

It is believed the capsule fell from a truck transporting equipment from a Rio Tinto minesite, but the investigation cleared the company of any wrongdoing earlier this year.

blowing up cultural significance and contaminating the natural environment does this company have like more immunity than the fucking QANTs at QANTAS¿¡

Money talks, bullshit walks.

‘Water has always been at the very core of our existence’ say traditional owners after watershed deal
ABC Gippsland
/
By William Howard

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-12/traditional-owners-given-more-water-in-landmark-announcement/102963860

Labor Loses Control Of Cuntry

Indigenous Australian, Palestinian, and Jewish speakers have been addressing the crowd. During the rally, event organiser Farhad Ali said the “world could no longer turn a blind eye”. “We saw earlier this week the premier of NSW said don’t come to this protest. Well, there are thousands of people here.”

Greens Bass MHA Lance Armstrong dies aged 83

Lance Armstrong is being remembered as someone who “never wavered” in his advocacy for social justice, peace and care for the natural environment.
The former Greens member for Tasmania’s House of Assembly died peacefully in his sleep in a Melbourne nursing home on Saturday, October 14.

He was 83, and is survived by his wife Ruth, three children, four grandchildren and two great-grandchildren.
Mr Armstrong won a seat in Bass in the 1989 elections having been a Uniting Church minister and social activist in Launceston.
Bob Brown, who led the Greens to the 1989 election, said on Sunday that Mr Armstrong was a good friend who had made a remarkable contribution to Tasmanian politics and society.

“Lance was a rock-solid Green who never wavered under repeated attacks on Greens policy, including death threats, from protecting forests to gay law reform, return of land to the Aboriginal community and opposing poker machines,” Mr Brown said.
“He seamlessly combined his Christian beliefs with his political career in his never-wavering advocacy for social justice, peace and care for the natural environment.”

Mr Armstrong’s time in parliament included being one of five Green Independents with the balance of power following former Liberal Premier Robin Gray’s backing of the proposed Wesley Vale pulp mill.
It had led to the Labor Green Accord, which saw a Michael Fielding led Labor Party form a minority government in 1989 with support from the independents.

In 1991, Mr Armstrong was responsible for the first Greens legislation ever to pass an Australian parliament, with his bill to ensure the vote of young Tasmanians who had just turned 18 prior to an election.
He reflected on his seven years in parliament in a book he wrote called ‘Good God, He’s Green!’. In it, he spoke about how he came to identify so closely with the Green movement as a Christian church minister.

Mr Armstrong represented the Greens at the Tahiti protests against French nuclear bomb testing in the Pacific Ocean. He also introduced legislation to prohibit nuclear warships from Tasmanian ports and to decriminalise the personal use of marijuana.
In 1996, Mr Armstrong lost his seat by a narrow 32 votes and returned to the Uniting Church minister. He took an appointment to Albury, before retiring with his wife to move to Melbourne to be near their family.

sarahs mum said:

Greens Bass MHA Lance Armstrong dies aged 83

Lance Armstrong is being remembered as someone who “never wavered” in his advocacy for social justice, peace and care for the natural environment.
The former Greens member for Tasmania’s House of Assembly died peacefully in his sleep in a Melbourne nursing home on Saturday, October 14.

He was 83, and is survived by his wife Ruth, three children, four grandchildren and two great-grandchildren.
Mr Armstrong won a seat in Bass in the 1989 elections having been a Uniting Church minister and social activist in Launceston.
Bob Brown, who led the Greens to the 1989 election, said on Sunday that Mr Armstrong was a good friend who had made a remarkable contribution to Tasmanian politics and society.

“Lance was a rock-solid Green who never wavered under repeated attacks on Greens policy, including death threats, from protecting forests to gay law reform, return of land to the Aboriginal community and opposing poker machines,” Mr Brown said.
“He seamlessly combined his Christian beliefs with his political career in his never-wavering advocacy for social justice, peace and care for the natural environment.”

Mr Armstrong’s time in parliament included being one of five Green Independents with the balance of power following former Liberal Premier Robin Gray’s backing of the proposed Wesley Vale pulp mill.
It had led to the Labor Green Accord, which saw a Michael Fielding led Labor Party form a minority government in 1989 with support from the independents.

In 1991, Mr Armstrong was responsible for the first Greens legislation ever to pass an Australian parliament, with his bill to ensure the vote of young Tasmanians who had just turned 18 prior to an election.
He reflected on his seven years in parliament in a book he wrote called ‘Good God, He’s Green!’. In it, he spoke about how he came to identify so closely with the Green movement as a Christian church minister.

Mr Armstrong represented the Greens at the Tahiti protests against French nuclear bomb testing in the Pacific Ocean. He also introduced legislation to prohibit nuclear warships from Tasmanian ports and to decriminalise the personal use of marijuana.
In 1996, Mr Armstrong lost his seat by a narrow 32 votes and returned to the Uniting Church minister. He took an appointment to Albury, before retiring with his wife to move to Melbourne to be near their family.

I remember him, he did well despite the god-bothering.

Took a while to find a photo ‘cos of the American cyclist.

Bubblecar said:

sarahs mum said:

Greens Bass MHA Lance Armstrong dies aged 83

Lance Armstrong is being remembered as someone who “never wavered” in his advocacy for social justice, peace and care for the natural environment.
The former Greens member for Tasmania’s House of Assembly died peacefully in his sleep in a Melbourne nursing home on Saturday, October 14.

He was 83, and is survived by his wife Ruth, three children, four grandchildren and two great-grandchildren.
Mr Armstrong won a seat in Bass in the 1989 elections having been a Uniting Church minister and social activist in Launceston.
Bob Brown, who led the Greens to the 1989 election, said on Sunday that Mr Armstrong was a good friend who had made a remarkable contribution to Tasmanian politics and society.

“Lance was a rock-solid Green who never wavered under repeated attacks on Greens policy, including death threats, from protecting forests to gay law reform, return of land to the Aboriginal community and opposing poker machines,” Mr Brown said.
“He seamlessly combined his Christian beliefs with his political career in his never-wavering advocacy for social justice, peace and care for the natural environment.”

Mr Armstrong’s time in parliament included being one of five Green Independents with the balance of power following former Liberal Premier Robin Gray’s backing of the proposed Wesley Vale pulp mill.
It had led to the Labor Green Accord, which saw a Michael Fielding led Labor Party form a minority government in 1989 with support from the independents.

In 1991, Mr Armstrong was responsible for the first Greens legislation ever to pass an Australian parliament, with his bill to ensure the vote of young Tasmanians who had just turned 18 prior to an election.
He reflected on his seven years in parliament in a book he wrote called ‘Good God, He’s Green!’. In it, he spoke about how he came to identify so closely with the Green movement as a Christian church minister.

Mr Armstrong represented the Greens at the Tahiti protests against French nuclear bomb testing in the Pacific Ocean. He also introduced legislation to prohibit nuclear warships from Tasmanian ports and to decriminalise the personal use of marijuana.
In 1996, Mr Armstrong lost his seat by a narrow 32 votes and returned to the Uniting Church minister. He took an appointment to Albury, before retiring with his wife to move to Melbourne to be near their family.

I remember him, he did well despite the god-bothering.

Took a while to find a photo ‘cos of the American cyclist.

I think fondly back to the Gerry Bates fundraiser on this mountain. First hubby, the muso, was paid in food and alcohol. Spit roasted lamb and greek salads and such. Kids playing in the river. Great conversations.

I remember the local kids thinking Gerry Bates kids were dorks for wearing socks with sandals. They didn’t go swimming.

There was a small convoy of drivers not anywhere near sobered up going home at 4 up the mountain. At about 5 mph. Took ages to get home.

Talking about Americans, another “green” politician (but actually Australian Democrat) I recall from those days was Norm Sanders.

He’s still alive, aged 90.

Bubblecar said:

Talking about Americans, another “green” politician (but actually Australian Democrat) I recall from those days was Norm Sanders.

He’s still alive, aged 90.

I liked Norm.

Bob Bell as such a good bloke. He’d stop by at Salamanca for a chat most weeks. He even rescued me once broken down at the side of road. How many pollies do that shit?

But he’s dead now.

sarahs mum said:

Bubblecar said:

Talking about Americans, another “green” politician (but actually Australian Democrat) I recall from those days was Norm Sanders.

He’s still alive, aged 90.

I liked Norm.

Bob Bell as such a good bloke. He’d stop by at Salamanca for a chat most weeks. He even rescued me once broken down at the side of road. How many pollies do that shit?

But he’s dead now.

I didn’t realise Bell died so young (heart attack at 51, in 2001).

friendlyjordies:
Back in March I was publishing articles about the Robodebt Royal Commission. Someone who was only fleetingly mentioned in these articles took issue and sent me a legal letter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7olbKWGmCTk

Who knew?

Former Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s leadership has “damaged” the Liberal party’s brand and contributed to its loss at the New South Wales election, an internal review has found.

roughbarked said:

Who knew?

Former Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s leadership has “damaged” the Liberal party’s brand and contributed to its loss at the New South Wales election, an internal review has found.

It was never Gladys Berejiklian.

sarahs mum said:

roughbarked said:

Who knew?

Former Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s leadership has “damaged” the Liberal party’s brand and contributed to its loss at the New South Wales election, an internal review has found.

It was never Gladys Berejiklian.

She who can do no wrong?

roughbarked said:

Who knew?

Former Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s leadership has “damaged” the Liberal party’s brand and contributed to its loss at the New South Wales election, an internal review has found.

Scotty is the best asset the ALP ever had.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/australian-rugby-league-players-called-out-over-national-anthem-snub/news-story/5589612b07df981ad6486b9b66f75f31

Some terrible news came in on the weekend. Selwyn Cobbo didn’t sing the anthem during the Kangaroos match.

dv said:

https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/australian-rugby-league-players-called-out-over-national-anthem-snub/news-story/5589612b07df981ad6486b9b66f75f31

Some terrible news came in on the weekend. Selwyn Cobbo didn’t sing the anthem during the Kangaroos match.

didn’t realise it was compulsory.

Boris said:

dv said:

https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/australian-rugby-league-players-called-out-over-national-anthem-snub/news-story/5589612b07df981ad6486b9b66f75f31

Some terrible news came in on the weekend. Selwyn Cobbo didn’t sing the anthem during the Kangaroos match.

didn’t realise it was compulsory.

I don’t think it should,

Especially if the bloke can’t sing. I’ve heard a few sporting national anthems where the camera went down the line and the microphones picked up each individual player’s voice. Some peoplle just can’t sing and in that circumstance the non-singers should celebrated.

Boris said:

dv said:

https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/australian-rugby-league-players-called-out-over-national-anthem-snub/news-story/5589612b07df981ad6486b9b66f75f31

Some terrible news came in on the weekend. Selwyn Cobbo didn’t sing the anthem during the Kangaroos match.

didn’t realise it was compulsory.

$50000 fine.

why hasn’t he gone away?

Also why is Albo taking shit for dividing the nation when Murdoch has been doing just that for months?

sarahs mum said:

why hasn’t he gone away?

Also why is Albo taking shit for dividing the nation when Murdoch has been doing just that for months?

WTF?

kii said:

sarahs mum said:

why hasn’t he gone away?

Also why is Albo taking shit for dividing the nation when Murdoch has been doing just that for months?

WTF?

And shouldn’t they have used an actual photo of Scomo in his cheap seat?

Witty Rejoinder said:

kii said:

sarahs mum said:

why hasn’t he gone away?

Also why is Albo taking shit for dividing the nation when Murdoch has been doing just that for months?

WTF?

And shouldn’t they have used an actual photo of Scomo in his cheap seat?

Laughable given that YES was all about inclusion and reconciliation, NO was all about stirring up racism and resentment.

Are we expected to believe that before Albo introduced the Voice vote, the kind of people who voted YES used to get along just fine with racists and nazis, but now we suddenly don’t like them?

Some rhetorical questions there…

dv said:

https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/australian-rugby-league-players-called-out-over-national-anthem-snub/news-story/5589612b07df981ad6486b9b66f75f31

Some terrible news came in on the weekend. Selwyn Cobbo didn’t sing the anthem during the Kangaroos match.

sigh

Michael V said:

dv said:

https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/australian-rugby-league-players-called-out-over-national-anthem-snub/news-story/5589612b07df981ad6486b9b66f75f31

Some terrible news came in on the weekend. Selwyn Cobbo didn’t sing the anthem during the Kangaroos match.

sigh

How does one sing without a voice¿

Bubblecar said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

kii said:

WTF?

And shouldn’t they have used an actual photo of Scomo in his cheap seat?

Laughable given that YES was all about inclusion and reconciliation, NO was all about stirring up racism and resentment.

Are we expected to believe that before Albo introduced the Voice vote, the kind of people who voted YES used to get along just fine with racists and nazis, but now we suddenly don’t like them?

Also

LOL legit‘¿

SCIENCE said:

Michael V said:

dv said:

https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/australian-rugby-league-players-called-out-over-national-anthem-snub/news-story/5589612b07df981ad6486b9b66f75f31

Some terrible news came in on the weekend. Selwyn Cobbo didn’t sing the anthem during the Kangaroos match.

sigh

How does one sing without a voice¿

LOL

SCIENCE said:

Bubblecar said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

And shouldn’t they have used an actual photo of Scomo in his cheap seat?

Laughable given that YES was all about inclusion and reconciliation, NO was all about stirring up racism and resentment.

Are we expected to believe that before Albo introduced the Voice vote, the kind of people who voted YES used to get along just fine with racists and nazis, but now we suddenly don’t like them?

Also

LOL legit‘¿

If anyone’s qualified to talk about arrogance, it’s Mr. I’m-The-Secret-Minister-For-Five-Portfolios-And-I-Don’t-Have-To-Tell-The-Electorate-Or-Even-The-Nominally-Incumbent-Ministers.

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

Bubblecar said:

Laughable given that YES was all about inclusion and reconciliation, NO was all about stirring up racism and resentment.

Are we expected to believe that before Albo introduced the Voice vote, the kind of people who voted YES used to get along just fine with racists and nazis, but now we suddenly don’t like them?

Also

LOL legit‘¿

If anyone’s qualified to talk about arrogance, it’s Mr. I’m-The-Secret-Minister-For-Five-Portfolios-And-I-Don’t-Have-To-Tell-The-Electorate-Or-Even-The-Nominally-Incumbent-Ministers.

:)

Yes it is a bit pot-kettle-black.

Michael V said:

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

Also

LOL legit‘¿

If anyone’s qualified to talk about arrogance, it’s Mr. I’m-The-Secret-Minister-For-Five-Portfolios-And-I-Don’t-Have-To-Tell-The-Electorate-Or-Even-The-Nominally-Incumbent-Ministers.

:)

Yes it is a bit pot-kettle-black.

Anyway, he’s probably unloading because yesterday he was directly blamed by the Libs for their loss in NSW.

Michael V said:

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

Also

LOL legit‘¿

If anyone’s qualified to talk about arrogance, it’s Mr. I’m-The-Secret-Minister-For-Five-Portfolios-And-I-Don’t-Have-To-Tell-The-Electorate-Or-Even-The-Nominally-Incumbent-Ministers.

:)

Yes it is a bit pot-kettle-black.

Be fair.

It’s the one thing they are good at.

Like Dutton calling the referendum divisive.

Michael V said:

Michael V said:

captain_spalding said:

If anyone’s qualified to talk about arrogance, it’s Mr. I’m-The-Secret-Minister-For-Five-Portfolios-And-I-Don’t-Have-To-Tell-The-Electorate-Or-Even-The-Nominally-Incumbent-Ministers.

:)

Yes it is a bit pot-kettle-black.

Anyway, he’s probably unloading because yesterday he was directly blamed by the Libs for their loss in NSW.

And,now, here he is criticising the party that values him the most.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Michael V said:

captain_spalding said:

If anyone’s qualified to talk about arrogance, it’s Mr. I’m-The-Secret-Minister-For-Five-Portfolios-And-I-Don’t-Have-To-Tell-The-Electorate-Or-Even-The-Nominally-Incumbent-Ministers.

:)

Yes it is a bit pot-kettle-black.

Be fair.

It’s the one thing they are good at.

Like Dutton calling the referendum divisive.

OK, OK.

captain_spalding said:

Michael V said:

Michael V said:

:)

Yes it is a bit pot-kettle-black.

Anyway, he’s probably unloading because yesterday he was directly blamed by the Libs for their loss in NSW.

And now, here he is criticising the party that values him the most.

:)

SCIENCE said:

Michael V said:

dv said:

https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/australian-rugby-league-players-called-out-over-national-anthem-snub/news-story/5589612b07df981ad6486b9b66f75f31

Some terrible news came in on the weekend. Selwyn Cobbo didn’t sing the anthem during the Kangaroos match.

sigh

How does one sing without a voice¿

Zing

‘Did I groan? The answer is no’ Liberal MP Guy Barnett under fire

Labor says Liberal MP Guy Barnett was responsible for not owning up to groaning after former MP Elise Archer said she took the heat for others.

Tasmanian Labor continue to raise the groan that occurred in state parliament last year, demanding that another Liberal MP apologise for groaning while a victim-survivor statement was read out.

Liberal MP Guy Barnett came under Labor fire in question time on Wednesday morning, with the party raising allegations of staff mistreatment by Mr Barnett.

They also alleged that he was responsible for groaning after former attorney general Elise Archer came out this month and publicly said “I took the heat for others who didn’t own up”.

This politicking follows on from question time on Tuesday, when Premier Jeremy Rockliff was the target of Labor’s integrity-based questions.

At the conclusion of Wednesday’s question time, Mr Barnett denied the accusation.
“Did I groan? The answer is no,” he said.
What is the groan incident?

In March last year audible groans were heard from the Liberal side of parliament when Labor leader Rebecca White was quoting institutional child sexual abuse victim-survivor Tiffany Skeggs.
At the time, then premier Peter Gutwein issued an apology on behalf of the government, and Education Minster Roger Jaensch apologised for his part in the affair.

At a later date in March, upon further questioning in state parliament, former Liberal MPs Elise Archer and Michael Ferguson apologised for their conduct.

But Ms Archer’s apology was retracted this month, in the context of her departure from parliament amid bullying allegations, when she said that she did not groan.

Ms Archer’s comments have been put on public record:

“I can now say it was not me who groaned,” Ms Archer said in a comment on her social media post about her resignation.
“Gutwein wouldn’t let me defend myself. Again I took the heat for others who didn’t own up.”

Labor now alleging Liberal MP Guy Barnett groaned

In state parliament Labor deputy leader Anita Dow asked Mr Barnett whether he would now own up and apologise.
Mr Barnett accused Labor of grubby politics.

“I won’t have a bar of it, the premier won’t have a bar of it, and you need to stand to account for your questions,” he said.
Labor MPs also addressed Premier Jeremy Rockliff with regard to Mr Barnett, repeatedly raising allegations of staff mistreatment by the Liberal MP.

This line of questioning looked at whether the Liberal government would treat Mr Barnett in the same way of its former attorney general Elise Archer, who resigned due to bullying allegations made against her by staff.

“Isn’t it a fact that you were forced to bring at least one of Mr Barnett’s former staff as a principal adviser because they had been treated so badly by him in their role in his office,” Ms Dow asked.

Mr Rockliff denied the accusation.

“That is breathtaking,” Mr Rockliff said.
“Here we are with so many challenges in our state, which we all recognise and embrace the opportunity to address those challenges. Number one is the Commission of Inquiry and the 191 recommendations.”

-examiner.

From the Mercury.

sarahs mum said:

From the Mercury.

A sea shell by the sea shore.

sarahs mum said:

From the Mercury.

Is that some post-apocalyptic world, where all the people and traffic congestion have disappeared?

sarahs mum said:

From the Mercury.

What the fuck is that? A cushion for postoperative care?

kii said:

sarahs mum said:

From the Mercury.

What the fuck is that? A cushion for postoperative care?

It’s an alternative to working on the homelessness problem. (I am still having a hard time believing people voted no in the referendum because the govt is doing FA about homelessness.)

sarahs mum said:

kii said:

sarahs mum said:

From the Mercury.

What the fuck is that? A cushion for postoperative care?

It’s an alternative to working on the homelessness problem. (I am still having a hard time believing people voted no in the referendum because the govt is doing FA about homelessness.)

Oopsie…

sarahs mum said:

kii said:

sarahs mum said:

From the Mercury.

What the fuck is that? A cushion for postoperative care?

It’s an alternative to working on the homelessness problem. (I am still having a hard time believing people voted no in the referendum because the govt is doing FA about homelessness.)

The mass brainwashing of society to embrace sport, and homelessness is not a problem. They homeless want to live like that.
Did you watch the John Pilger YouTube I’ve posted on my fb page? Some of the interviews with people on Australia day! Disgusting shit.

dv said:

To clarify, tears of gratitude. She is of Jewish descent.

>Expelled Liberal MP Moira Deeming tearfully says “I don’t want to ever see another Nazi salute tolerated in public again” as the long-awaited bill banning the salute was passed by the upper house on Tuesday night.

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

To clarify, tears of gratitude. She is of Jewish descent.

>Expelled Liberal MP Moira Deeming tearfully says “I don’t want to ever see another Nazi salute tolerated in public again” as the long-awaited bill banning the salute was passed by the upper house on Tuesday night.

AFAICT Wikipedia makes no mention of a Jewish background and says she is Presbyterian.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

To clarify, tears of gratitude. She is of Jewish descent.

>Expelled Liberal MP Moira Deeming tearfully says “I don’t want to ever see another Nazi salute tolerated in public again” as the long-awaited bill banning the salute was passed by the upper house on Tuesday night.

AFAICT Wikipedia makes no mention of a Jewish background and says she is Presbyterian.

Deeming is Presbyterian, though attended the Catholic high school St. Francis Xavier College. She is of Jewish and Māori descent. She has four children: three daughters and a son.

Boris said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Bubblecar said:

To clarify, tears of gratitude. She is of Jewish descent.

>Expelled Liberal MP Moira Deeming tearfully says “I don’t want to ever see another Nazi salute tolerated in public again” as the long-awaited bill banning the salute was passed by the upper house on Tuesday night.

AFAICT Wikipedia makes no mention of a Jewish background and says she is Presbyterian.

Deeming is Presbyterian, though attended the Catholic high school St. Francis Xavier College. She is of Jewish and Māori descent. She has four children: three daughters and a son.

Ta.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Boris said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

AFAICT Wikipedia makes no mention of a Jewish background and says she is Presbyterian.

Deeming is Presbyterian, though attended the Catholic high school St. Francis Xavier College. She is of Jewish and Māori descent. She has four children: three daughters and a son.

Ta.

no wucckers cob.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Bubblecar said:

dv said:

To clarify, tears of gratitude. She is of Jewish descent.

>Expelled Liberal MP Moira Deeming tearfully says “I don’t want to ever see another Nazi salute tolerated in public again” as the long-awaited bill banning the salute was passed by the upper house on Tuesday night.

AFAICT Wikipedia makes no mention of a Jewish background and says she is Presbyterian.

From Wikipedia: Deeming is Presbyterian, though attended the Catholic high school St. Francis Xavier College. She is of Jewish and Māori descent. She has four children: three daughters and a son.

The headline writer knew what they were up to

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-19/senator-michaelia-cash-fails-to-overthrow-act-drug-laws/102995412

State/Territory governments don’t much like being interfered with.

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-19/senator-michaelia-cash-fails-to-overthrow-act-drug-laws/102995412

State/Territory governments don’t much like being interfered with.

Damn

He also questioned why a WA senator was attempting to intervene in ACT politics, suggesting perhaps Senator Cash should move to the ACT and run for the legislative assembly.

Greens senator David Shoebridge was similarly scathing of Senator Cash’s bill, labelling it “another highly emotive febrile attack from the shadow attorney-general”.

Senator Shoebridge seized on previous comments from Canberra Liberals leader Elizabeth Lee, who said she did not support her federal colleague wading into ACT matters.

“The poor old Liberals in the ACT are saying ‘please stop’. But obviously nothing is going to stop the Trumpian-style rise of the federal Liberal Party,” Senator Shoebridge said.

dv said:

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-19/senator-michaelia-cash-fails-to-overthrow-act-drug-laws/102995412

State/Territory governments don’t much like being interfered with.

Damn

He also questioned why a WA senator was attempting to intervene in ACT politics, suggesting perhaps Senator Cash should move to the ACT and run for the legislative assembly.

Greens senator David Shoebridge was similarly scathing of Senator Cash’s bill, labelling it “another highly emotive febrile attack from the shadow attorney-general”.

Senator Shoebridge seized on previous comments from Canberra Liberals leader Elizabeth Lee, who said she did not support her federal colleague wading into ACT matters.

“The poor old Liberals in the ACT are saying ‘please stop’. But obviously nothing is going to stop the Trumpian-style rise of the federal Liberal Party,” Senator Shoebridge said.

Seems a bit of false-equivalence never hurt anyone…

diddly-squat said:

dv said:

buffy said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-19/senator-michaelia-cash-fails-to-overthrow-act-drug-laws/102995412

State/Territory governments don’t much like being interfered with.

Damn

He also questioned why a WA senator was attempting to intervene in ACT politics, suggesting perhaps Senator Cash should move to the ACT and run for the legislative assembly.

Greens senator David Shoebridge was similarly scathing of Senator Cash’s bill, labelling it “another highly emotive febrile attack from the shadow attorney-general”.

Senator Shoebridge seized on previous comments from Canberra Liberals leader Elizabeth Lee, who said she did not support her federal colleague wading into ACT matters.

“The poor old Liberals in the ACT are saying ‘please stop’. But obviously nothing is going to stop the Trumpian-style rise of the federal Liberal Party,” Senator Shoebridge said.

Seems a bit of false-equivalence never hurt anyone…

Strikes me that the fed LNP people are having a bit of a relevence crisis.

Certain forces in the Liberal Party are seeking to dump Bass MP Bridget Archer as the party’s candidate in the electorate at the next federal election, according to former Liberal Party power-broker Brad Stansfield.

Speaking during a podcast aired in February, Mr Stansfield, who worked as a chief of staff for former Premier Will Hodgman, said Ms Archer’s tendency to break the party line had “given ammo” to some of her opponents.

“I understand certain forces in the party are seeking to replace Ms Archer – the most electorally successful Liberal member for Bass since Warwick Smith 25 years ago,” he said.

Ms Archer has crossed the floor several times since her election in 2019, including to support the new Labor government in its censure of former prime minister Scott Morrison.

Labor’s latest finance proposal, which would double taxation on superannuation accounts over $3 million, could be the latest issue that sees her diverge from the party line.

“I haven’t made a decision, obviously I haven’t seen the legislation, but what I have said is that we should be prepared to discuss these things, the default position shouldn’t be, ‘your side said that, so I’m going to say no’,” she said of the superannuation proposal.
She added that her decisions should be based on what is best for her constituency.

Based on data from the Australian Taxation Office, the average super account in the Launceston area contains $159,000, compared to nearly $700,000 for some Sydney eastern suburbs such as Point Piper.

Ms Archer said crossing the floor was a feature of the Liberal Party that distinguished it from Labor.

“This issue of crossing the floor is sometimes represented as being disloyal or disunified, but it’s actually not and it never was intended to be,” she said.
“Politics ought to be a contest of ideas, not a contest of ideologies, and I think it’s increasingly become these divisive, polarizing contests that are about the parties or the political actors, and not about the people that they’re elected to represent.”

Ms Archer was first elected in Bass in 2019 by less than 700 votes, but in last year’s poll, she was one of the few Liberals to win with an increased margin.

One senior Liberal Party member from Northern Tasmania, who agreed that Ms Archer was too successful to be dumped, nevertheless said she has crossed the floor too many times.

“She has done it what four times? You can do that in the Liberal Party, it’s not like Labor where they expel you if you do it. But there needs to be a limit on how many times you can do it.”

But the member thought there was very little chance of Ms Archer being dumped, as the push was coming from a small number of individuals in Bass.

-Examiner

Figures. Bridget is well liked. there is a bunch of people who would like to see her leave the Libs and stand as a teal. Be funny if they kicked her out and lost the seat.

sarahs mum said:

Certain forces in the Liberal Party are seeking to dump Bass MP Bridget Archer as the party’s candidate in the electorate at the next federal election, according to former Liberal Party power-broker Brad Stansfield.

Speaking during a podcast aired in February, Mr Stansfield, who worked as a chief of staff for former Premier Will Hodgman, said Ms Archer’s tendency to break the party line had “given ammo” to some of her opponents.

“I understand certain forces in the party are seeking to replace Ms Archer – the most electorally successful Liberal member for Bass since Warwick Smith 25 years ago,” he said.

Ms Archer has crossed the floor several times since her election in 2019, including to support the new Labor government in its censure of former prime minister Scott Morrison.

Labor’s latest finance proposal, which would double taxation on superannuation accounts over $3 million, could be the latest issue that sees her diverge from the party line.

“I haven’t made a decision, obviously I haven’t seen the legislation, but what I have said is that we should be prepared to discuss these things, the default position shouldn’t be, ‘your side said that, so I’m going to say no’,” she said of the superannuation proposal.
She added that her decisions should be based on what is best for her constituency.

Based on data from the Australian Taxation Office, the average super account in the Launceston area contains $159,000, compared to nearly $700,000 for some Sydney eastern suburbs such as Point Piper.

Ms Archer said crossing the floor was a feature of the Liberal Party that distinguished it from Labor.

“This issue of crossing the floor is sometimes represented as being disloyal or disunified, but it’s actually not and it never was intended to be,” she said.
“Politics ought to be a contest of ideas, not a contest of ideologies, and I think it’s increasingly become these divisive, polarizing contests that are about the parties or the political actors, and not about the people that they’re elected to represent.”

Ms Archer was first elected in Bass in 2019 by less than 700 votes, but in last year’s poll, she was one of the few Liberals to win with an increased margin.

One senior Liberal Party member from Northern Tasmania, who agreed that Ms Archer was too successful to be dumped, nevertheless said she has crossed the floor too many times.

“She has done it what four times? You can do that in the Liberal Party, it’s not like Labor where they expel you if you do it. But there needs to be a limit on how many times you can do it.”

But the member thought there was very little chance of Ms Archer being dumped, as the push was coming from a small number of individuals in Bass.

-Examiner

Figures. Bridget is well liked. there is a bunch of people who would like to see her leave the Libs and stand as a teal. Be funny if they kicked her out and lost the seat.

She was the only Lib to have a swing towards them at the last election. They should probably make her party leader.

sarahs mum said:

All they think about is getting into power and staying in power. Doing things for good of country rarely gets a look in.

a broad church as long as you’re all singing from the same hymn book.

Boris said:

a broad church as long as you’re all singing from the same hymn book.

but representing your electorate is such a novel way to win over the electors.

Bridget Archer has blasted Peter Dutton for appearing to “weaponise” child sexual abuse for “some perceived political advantage” after the Liberal backbencher crossed the floor to vote against a motion calling for a royal commission into child sexual abuse in Indigenous communities.

A furious Archer told Guardian Australia on Tuesday she would probably support a royal commission into child sexual abuse if any new inquiry examined the prevalence of that behaviour in all parts of the community, not just in Indigenous communities.

Archer is a survivor of child sexual abuse. Her criticism followed Dutton’s move to suspend the standing orders early on Thursday to demand that parliament back the Coalition’s call for a royal commission into child sexual abuse in Indigenous communities.

Dutton’s motion also called for a new audit of spending on Indigenous programs and “practical policy ideas” to improve the lives of Indigenous Australians to help close the gap.

After voting against the Coalition’s motion, the Liberal backbencher said child sexual abuse was “a significant issue right across the country”.

“The numbers bear that out,” Archer said.

Archer pointed to a recent commission of inquiry in Tasmania examining the responses of government institutions to allegations of child sexual abuse dating back more than 20 years.

That inquiry found children had been abused in a range of government institutions, including hospitals and schools, and the responses had been inadequate.

“Are there issues in Indigenous communities? Of course,” Archer said on Thursday.

“What’s needed is action. We could act now.”

Asked about Archer’s action in a 2GB interview, Dutton said he couldn’t “understand why anyone would vote against a royal commission into what I think is one of the country’s most serious issues”.

Pressed by radio host Ray Hadley about Archer’s position in the Liberal Party, Dutton said he would have a “private conversation” with the Bass MP.

“In the Liberal Party you’ve got the ability to cross the floor if that’s where your conscience takes you,” Dutton said.

On this issue though, I don’t understand why Bridget crossed the floor … I think she’s made a mistake, it’s the wrong decision,” he said.

Hadley claimed Liberal supporters would “stand up and cheer” if Dutton told her to leave the party. Dutton did not push back on that comment.

SNAICC, the advocacy group representing Indigenous children, claimed the Coalition’s call for an inquiry was made “without one shred of real evidence being presented”.

“If any politician, or anyone at all, has any evidence about the sexual abuse of children then they must report it to the authorities.”

Archer argued the Liberal leadership was engaged in mixed messaging. “I also think there are inconsistencies in what was said during the voice referendum.”

“We don’t want to divide the country by race, yet we are singling out abuse in Indigenous communities,” she said.

“It’s very difficult to see as anything other than weaponising abuse for some perceived political advantage.”

Archer campaigned for a yes vote in her marginal Tasmanian seat of Bass.

It has been clear since the start of the week that Dutton’s post-referendum push for an audit of government spending would fail. Labor, the Greens and the independent senator David Pocock are all opposed.

Even the independent senator Lidia Thorpe, who has backed a more limited review of the “governance processes of organisations that are meant to represent” First Nations people, distanced herself from the Coalition’s call for a broader review of all spending.

Dutton told parliament on Thursday morning he wanted the royal commission to examine the “power imbalance that exists in some of the communities”.

He said Indigenous children in remote communities were some of the most vulnerable people in Australia, so it was “absolutely unbelievable” the government would decline to consider the motion and “find a pathway forward”.

Dutton – a former police officer, who established the Australian Centre to Counter Child Exploitation during his time in government – said child sexual abuse, assault and exploitation, was a “complete abomination”. He said the failure to establish a royal commission equated to a failure to protect children.

He said abuse was not occurring in all communities but “a royal commission has the ability to pull people in to provide evidence to look at the situation as it exists”.

“Somehow, we don’t see this as a priority in this parliament, or the prime minister doesn’t see it as a priority for this parliament to call for a royal commission to understand what is happening,” Dutton said.

The suspension debate triggered rowdy scenes in the parliament. The health minister, Mark Butler, told the chamber the government would not support Dutton’s motion.

“It should be recognised that every single person across this parliament is committed to fighting abuse of children,” the health minister said.

But Butler said Dutton’s motion was “about trying to score a political point against the government”.

Butler responded to a volley of “angry” interjections from the opposition during the suspension debate.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/19/bridget-archer-says-peter-dutton-call-royal-commission-child-abuse-indigenous-communities-appears-to-be-weaponising-for-political-advantage

Pokies venues owned by AFL clubs claim renovations and pay tv subscriptions as ‘community benefit’

Venues owned by four clubs legally claimed a total of $8.6m in operating costs under Victorian scheme

Poker machine venues owned by AFL clubs have been spending millions of dollars in revenue on themselves – from kitchen renovations to Foxtel subscriptions – while claiming the costs as a community benefit to lower their tax bill.

Eight venues, owned by Carlton, Essendon, Richmond and St Kilda, collectively spent $8.6m on operating costs last year, legally claiming it under the state’s community benefits scheme.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/19/pokies-venues-owned-by-afl-clubs-claim-renovations-and-pay-tv-subscriptions-as-community-benefit

“We are very serious about investigating sexual abuse other than that perpetrated by our staffers in Parliament House.”

dv said:

“We are very serious about investigating sexual abuse other than that perpetrated by our staffers in Parliament House.”

I’m surprised there isn’t a push to just legalise all of it.

dv said:

Pokies venues owned by AFL clubs claim renovations and pay tv subscriptions as ‘community benefit’

Venues owned by four clubs legally claimed a total of $8.6m in operating costs under Victorian scheme

Poker machine venues owned by AFL clubs have been spending millions of dollars in revenue on themselves – from kitchen renovations to Foxtel subscriptions – while claiming the costs as a community benefit to lower their tax bill.

Eight venues, owned by Carlton, Essendon, Richmond and St Kilda, collectively spent $8.6m on operating costs last year, legally claiming it under the state’s community benefits scheme.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/19/pokies-venues-owned-by-afl-clubs-claim-renovations-and-pay-tv-subscriptions-as-community-benefit

I don’t see the problem with that.

Money spent on operating costs is not profit so why would it be taxed?

sarahs mum said:

Bridget Archer has blasted Peter Dutton for appearing to “weaponise” child sexual abuse for “some perceived political advantage” after the Liberal backbencher crossed the floor to vote against a motion calling for a royal commission into child sexual abuse in Indigenous communities.

A furious Archer told Guardian Australia on Tuesday she would probably support a royal commission into child sexual abuse if any new inquiry examined the prevalence of that behaviour in all parts of the community, not just in Indigenous communities.

Archer is a survivor of child sexual abuse. Her criticism followed Dutton’s move to suspend the standing orders early on Thursday to demand that parliament back the Coalition’s call for a royal commission into child sexual abuse in Indigenous communities.

Dutton’s motion also called for a new audit of spending on Indigenous programs and “practical policy ideas” to improve the lives of Indigenous Australians to help close the gap.

After voting against the Coalition’s motion, the Liberal backbencher said child sexual abuse was “a significant issue right across the country”.

“The numbers bear that out,” Archer said.

Archer pointed to a recent commission of inquiry in Tasmania examining the responses of government institutions to allegations of child sexual abuse dating back more than 20 years.

That inquiry found children had been abused in a range of government institutions, including hospitals and schools, and the responses had been inadequate.

“Are there issues in Indigenous communities? Of course,” Archer said on Thursday.

“What’s needed is action. We could act now.”

Asked about Archer’s action in a 2GB interview, Dutton said he couldn’t “understand why anyone would vote against a royal commission into what I think is one of the country’s most serious issues”.

Pressed by radio host Ray Hadley about Archer’s position in the Liberal Party, Dutton said he would have a “private conversation” with the Bass MP.

“In the Liberal Party you’ve got the ability to cross the floor if that’s where your conscience takes you,” Dutton said.

On this issue though, I don’t understand why Bridget crossed the floor … I think she’s made a mistake, it’s the wrong decision,” he said.

Hadley claimed Liberal supporters would “stand up and cheer” if Dutton told her to leave the party. Dutton did not push back on that comment.

SNAICC, the advocacy group representing Indigenous children, claimed the Coalition’s call for an inquiry was made “without one shred of real evidence being presented”.

“If any politician, or anyone at all, has any evidence about the sexual abuse of children then they must report it to the authorities.”

Archer argued the Liberal leadership was engaged in mixed messaging. “I also think there are inconsistencies in what was said during the voice referendum.”

“We don’t want to divide the country by race, yet we are singling out abuse in Indigenous communities,” she said.

“It’s very difficult to see as anything other than weaponising abuse for some perceived political advantage.”

Archer campaigned for a yes vote in her marginal Tasmanian seat of Bass.

It has been clear since the start of the week that Dutton’s post-referendum push for an audit of government spending would fail. Labor, the Greens and the independent senator David Pocock are all opposed.

Even the independent senator Lidia Thorpe, who has backed a more limited review of the “governance processes of organisations that are meant to represent” First Nations people, distanced herself from the Coalition’s call for a broader review of all spending.

Dutton told parliament on Thursday morning he wanted the royal commission to examine the “power imbalance that exists in some of the communities”.

He said Indigenous children in remote communities were some of the most vulnerable people in Australia, so it was “absolutely unbelievable” the government would decline to consider the motion and “find a pathway forward”.

Dutton – a former police officer, who established the Australian Centre to Counter Child Exploitation during his time in government – said child sexual abuse, assault and exploitation, was a “complete abomination”. He said the failure to establish a royal commission equated to a failure to protect children.

He said abuse was not occurring in all communities but “a royal commission has the ability to pull people in to provide evidence to look at the situation as it exists”.

“Somehow, we don’t see this as a priority in this parliament, or the prime minister doesn’t see it as a priority for this parliament to call for a royal commission to understand what is happening,” Dutton said.

The suspension debate triggered rowdy scenes in the parliament. The health minister, Mark Butler, told the chamber the government would not support Dutton’s motion.

“It should be recognised that every single person across this parliament is committed to fighting abuse of children,” the health minister said.

But Butler said Dutton’s motion was “about trying to score a political point against the government”.

Butler responded to a volley of “angry” interjections from the opposition during the suspension debate.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/19/bridget-archer-says-peter-dutton-call-royal-commission-child-abuse-indigenous-communities-appears-to-be-weaponising-for-political-advantage

I hope she gets elected when she goes independent.

The Rev Dodgson said:

sarahs mum said:

Bridget Archer has blasted Peter Dutton for appearing to “weaponise” child sexual abuse for “some perceived political advantage” after the Liberal backbencher crossed the floor to vote against a motion calling for a royal commission into child sexual abuse in Indigenous communities.

A furious Archer told Guardian Australia on Tuesday she would probably support a royal commission into child sexual abuse if any new inquiry examined the prevalence of that behaviour in all parts of the community, not just in Indigenous communities.

Archer is a survivor of child sexual abuse. Her criticism followed Dutton’s move to suspend the standing orders early on Thursday to demand that parliament back the Coalition’s call for a royal commission into child sexual abuse in Indigenous communities.

Dutton’s motion also called for a new audit of spending on Indigenous programs and “practical policy ideas” to improve the lives of Indigenous Australians to help close the gap.

After voting against the Coalition’s motion, the Liberal backbencher said child sexual abuse was “a significant issue right across the country”.

“The numbers bear that out,” Archer said.

Archer pointed to a recent commission of inquiry in Tasmania examining the responses of government institutions to allegations of child sexual abuse dating back more than 20 years.

That inquiry found children had been abused in a range of government institutions, including hospitals and schools, and the responses had been inadequate.

“Are there issues in Indigenous communities? Of course,” Archer said on Thursday.

“What’s needed is action. We could act now.”

Asked about Archer’s action in a 2GB interview, Dutton said he couldn’t “understand why anyone would vote against a royal commission into what I think is one of the country’s most serious issues”.

Pressed by radio host Ray Hadley about Archer’s position in the Liberal Party, Dutton said he would have a “private conversation” with the Bass MP.

“In the Liberal Party you’ve got the ability to cross the floor if that’s where your conscience takes you,” Dutton said.

On this issue though, I don’t understand why Bridget crossed the floor … I think she’s made a mistake, it’s the wrong decision,” he said.

Hadley claimed Liberal supporters would “stand up and cheer” if Dutton told her to leave the party. Dutton did not push back on that comment.

SNAICC, the advocacy group representing Indigenous children, claimed the Coalition’s call for an inquiry was made “without one shred of real evidence being presented”.

“If any politician, or anyone at all, has any evidence about the sexual abuse of children then they must report it to the authorities.”

Archer argued the Liberal leadership was engaged in mixed messaging. “I also think there are inconsistencies in what was said during the voice referendum.”

“We don’t want to divide the country by race, yet we are singling out abuse in Indigenous communities,” she said.

“It’s very difficult to see as anything other than weaponising abuse for some perceived political advantage.”

Archer campaigned for a yes vote in her marginal Tasmanian seat of Bass.

It has been clear since the start of the week that Dutton’s post-referendum push for an audit of government spending would fail. Labor, the Greens and the independent senator David Pocock are all opposed.

Even the independent senator Lidia Thorpe, who has backed a more limited review of the “governance processes of organisations that are meant to represent” First Nations people, distanced herself from the Coalition’s call for a broader review of all spending.

Dutton told parliament on Thursday morning he wanted the royal commission to examine the “power imbalance that exists in some of the communities”.

He said Indigenous children in remote communities were some of the most vulnerable people in Australia, so it was “absolutely unbelievable” the government would decline to consider the motion and “find a pathway forward”.

Dutton – a former police officer, who established the Australian Centre to Counter Child Exploitation during his time in government – said child sexual abuse, assault and exploitation, was a “complete abomination”. He said the failure to establish a royal commission equated to a failure to protect children.

He said abuse was not occurring in all communities but “a royal commission has the ability to pull people in to provide evidence to look at the situation as it exists”.

“Somehow, we don’t see this as a priority in this parliament, or the prime minister doesn’t see it as a priority for this parliament to call for a royal commission to understand what is happening,” Dutton said.

The suspension debate triggered rowdy scenes in the parliament. The health minister, Mark Butler, told the chamber the government would not support Dutton’s motion.

“It should be recognised that every single person across this parliament is committed to fighting abuse of children,” the health minister said.

But Butler said Dutton’s motion was “about trying to score a political point against the government”.

Butler responded to a volley of “angry” interjections from the opposition during the suspension debate.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/19/bridget-archer-says-peter-dutton-call-royal-commission-child-abuse-indigenous-communities-appears-to-be-weaponising-for-political-advantage

I hope she gets elected when she goes independent.

She says she doesn’t want to leave the Libs because she wants to help reform the party.

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

Pokies venues owned by AFL clubs claim renovations and pay tv subscriptions as ‘community benefit’

Venues owned by four clubs legally claimed a total of $8.6m in operating costs under Victorian scheme

Poker machine venues owned by AFL clubs have been spending millions of dollars in revenue on themselves – from kitchen renovations to Foxtel subscriptions – while claiming the costs as a community benefit to lower their tax bill.

Eight venues, owned by Carlton, Essendon, Richmond and St Kilda, collectively spent $8.6m on operating costs last year, legally claiming it under the state’s community benefits scheme.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/19/pokies-venues-owned-by-afl-clubs-claim-renovations-and-pay-tv-subscriptions-as-community-benefit

I don’t see the problem with that.

Money spent on operating costs is not profit so why would it be taxed?

Per the article, the clubs appear to be fraudulently claiming to spend the required 8.33% on community benefit programs. If they do not hit that threshhold, the must pay a penalty equal to the entire difference between what they spent and 8.33%. Thus, moving the costs from the business expenses ledger to the community benefit ledger reduces the tax burden.

dv said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

dv said:

Pokies venues owned by AFL clubs claim renovations and pay tv subscriptions as ‘community benefit’

Venues owned by four clubs legally claimed a total of $8.6m in operating costs under Victorian scheme

Poker machine venues owned by AFL clubs have been spending millions of dollars in revenue on themselves – from kitchen renovations to Foxtel subscriptions – while claiming the costs as a community benefit to lower their tax bill.

Eight venues, owned by Carlton, Essendon, Richmond and St Kilda, collectively spent $8.6m on operating costs last year, legally claiming it under the state’s community benefits scheme.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/oct/19/pokies-venues-owned-by-afl-clubs-claim-renovations-and-pay-tv-subscriptions-as-community-benefit

I don’t see the problem with that.

Money spent on operating costs is not profit so why would it be taxed?

Per the article, the clubs appear to be fraudulently claiming to spend the required 8.33% on community benefit programs. If they do not hit that threshhold, the must pay a penalty equal to the entire difference between what they spent and 8.33%. Thus, moving the costs from the business expenses ledger to the community benefit ledger reduces the tax burden.

OK, helps if you read the article I suppose.

The Rev Dodgson said:

OK, helps if you read the article I suppose.

I see you are an aspiring poindexter.

dv said:

Price, Thorpe and Mundine should hang their heads in shame. They do not represent their people!

PermeateFree said:

dv said:

Price, Thorpe and Mundine should hang their heads in shame. They do not represent their people!

So we should just listen to the cities and the northern parts, and forget the rest.

Old News we know but forgive us our retardation and stupidity, we would

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-19/unemployment-rate-falls-jobs-data-september-2023-abs/102996102

like to know how if it’s supposedly lower unemployment that goes with higher inflation then

Small business owners feeling the pinch may cut working hours

how is it that higher inflation actually associates with lower employment when small business cut work ¿

Witty Rejoinder said:

“Bluey” captures the joys of childhood and parenting
The surprise hit show first aired five years ago and has become a family favourite

Bluey balloon flies during the 96th Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade in Manhattan.

Sep 29th 2023

“Is there some game where I just lie really still on a comfy bed or something?” Bandit, the father in “Bluey”, asks, with hope in his voice. “Hospitals!” yell Bluey and Bingo, his two rambunctious dog daughters. “Oh, not hospital,” sighs Bandit, as he is led to a pile of sofa cushions on the floor to become a patient, poked and prodded.

This is just one of a raft of games the Heeler family plays. There’s “Daddy Robot”, where Bandit can be assigned chores, and “Hotel”, where the workers (the children) repeatedly wake up the guest (Bandit). No five-star review for them.

“Bluey”, a hit series about four Australian cattle dogs, first aired on television on October 1st five years ago. It is, at heart, a celebration of the whimsical games adults and children play together. The creator, Joe Brumm, who is an Australian animator, draws on his own experience of bringing up little ones. He has said that playing make-believe with his two girls is “just like being in a ‘Monty Python’ sketch”. Youngsters know a bit about how a café or hospital works, but they have to ad lib to fill the gaps—usually with surreal and amusing results.

Mr Brumm envisaged “Bluey” as Australia’s answer to “Peppa Pig”, a beloved (and lucrative) British animated series. He has succeeded. The pups’ antics are watched in more than 60 countries. In America, more than 23m hours of “Bluey” were streamed in a single week in July: an impressive feat given each instalment is around seven minutes long.

Why has it become such a global success? There is the wholesome premise: a family having fun, which parents like to show their children. There is an instructive element, too, as the dogs usually learn something about the real world as a result of their japes. For children who expect a present from every party they go to, “Pass the Parcel” teaches them about the joy of generosity. “Bluey” is also beautifully designed, with calming hues and soft music. It makes a pleasant change from the gaudy colours and ear-splitting noise used in many kids’ programmes.

The show has its critics. It revolves around a standard two-parent, two-child unit, even though families come in all shapes and sizes. Some gender stereotypes persist, too. Although Bandit is involved in parenting, he is, like Daddy Pig, too often the fun parent while Chilli, the mother, does domestic chores and organises the family. Some claim the show puts pressure on parents to be constant play companions to their children.

But “Bluey” also entertains parents, who will have played many made-up games with their own children. Parents empathise with Bandit’s sighs and understand why Chilli “likes being by herself”. The characters provide a model for young and old alike. Bandit and Chilli evince a saintly patience and calm. Few, for instance, would let their children make an almighty mess as they discover just how many eggs need to be broken to make an omelette. But when it comes to cracking the recipe for a happy family—and audience—“Bluey” has done it.

https://www.economist.com/culture/2023/09/29/bluey-captures-the-joys-of-childhood-and-parenting?

Back at home Yore ABC diverser

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-21/which-aussie-kids-shows-shaped-you-into-the-person-you-are/102981368

though as some genius once said it 买t soon be 买ABC。

Bill Hayden has died, aged 90 years.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-21/bill-hayden-dies-labor-obituary/102096584

buffy said:

Bill Hayden has died, aged 90 years.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-21/bill-hayden-dies-labor-obituary/102096584

:(

buffy said:

Bill Hayden has died, aged 90 years.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-21/bill-hayden-dies-labor-obituary/102096584

Sad that he turned to superstition in the end.

buffy said:

Bill Hayden has died, aged 90 years.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-21/bill-hayden-dies-labor-obituary/102096584

Probably the best Republican governor general we ever had

fsm said:

dv said:

buffy said:

Bill Hayden has died, aged 90 years.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-21/bill-hayden-dies-labor-obituary/102096584

Probably the best Republican governor general we ever had

Bill Hayden, former governor-general and Labor luminary who served under Gough Whitlam and made way for Bob Hawke, dies aged 90

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-21/bill-hayden-dies-labor-obituary/102096584

Never Heard Of H’

Jacinta Price at the launch of the IPA’s Centre for the Australian Way of Life.
“Lachlan Murdoch whose family have provided a beacon of light in a sea of woke darkness. They’re the necessary media platforms that deliver genuine common sense and fact driven news reporting for our benefit. “

https://youtu.be/ut3gEv27×0s

dv said:

Jacinta Price at the launch of the IPA’s Centre for the Australian Way of Life.
“Lachlan Murdoch whose family have provided a beacon of light in a sea of woke darkness. They’re the necessary media platforms that deliver genuine common sense and fact driven news reporting for our benefit. “

https://youtu.be/ut3gEv27×0s

she’s gone over to the dark side.

dv said:

buffy said:

Bill Hayden has died, aged 90 years.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-21/bill-hayden-dies-labor-obituary/102096584

Probably the best Republican governor general we ever had

Vale Bill, you did your best.

Boris said:

dv said:

Jacinta Price at the launch of the IPA’s Centre for the Australian Way of Life.
“Lachlan Murdoch whose family have provided a beacon of light in a sea of woke darkness. They’re the necessary media platforms that deliver genuine common sense and fact driven news reporting for our benefit. “

https://youtu.be/ut3gEv27×0s

she’s gone over to the dark side.

This was last year but I thought it might help contextualise things

Boris said:

dv said:

Jacinta Price at the launch of the IPA’s Centre for the Australian Way of Life.
“Lachlan Murdoch whose family have provided a beacon of light in a sea of woke darkness. They’re the necessary media platforms that deliver genuine common sense and fact driven news reporting for our benefit. “

https://youtu.be/ut3gEv27×0s

she’s gone over to the dark side.

She has a strong connection to country on Kirribilli Point.

dv said:

Jacinta Price at the launch of the IPA’s Centre for the Australian Way of Life.
“Lachlan Murdoch whose family have provided a beacon of light in a sea of woke darkness. They’re the necessary media platforms that deliver genuine common sense and fact driven news reporting for our benefit. “

https://youtu.be/ut3gEv27×0s

The ‘murderdochs’ :-(

dv said:

Jacinta Price at the launch of the IPA’s Centre for the Australian Way of Life.
“Lachlan Murdoch whose family have provided a beacon of light in a sea of woke darkness. They’re the necessary media platforms that deliver genuine common sense and fact driven news reporting for our benefit. “

https://youtu.be/ut3gEv27×0s

Strangely enough, I don’t see wokeness as being part of the darkness around at the moment.

Former Victorian Liberal Party President Michael Kroger says Opposition Leader Peter Dutton is a “totally different character” compared to former US president Donald Trump.

Mr Kroger sat with Sky News host Paul Murray to discuss the failure of the Voice to Parliament referendum and the issues emerging of the Labor Party.

“What is troubling Labor is the fact that Dutton is appealing to the working middle class,” he told Mr Murray.

“Albanese is caught in this terrible bind between being the plaything of some of the extreme left Aboriginal leadership – the aristocracy.

“He’s losing his working-class base.”

Boris said:

Former Victorian Liberal Party President Michael Kroger says Opposition Leader Peter Dutton is a “totally different character” compared to former US president Donald Trump.

Mr Kroger sat with Sky News host Paul Murray to discuss the failure of the Voice to Parliament referendum and the issues emerging of the Labor Party.

“What is troubling Labor is the fact that Dutton is appealing to the working middle class,” he told Mr Murray.

“Albanese is caught in this terrible bind between being the plaything of some of the extreme left Aboriginal leadership – the aristocracy.

“He’s losing his working-class base.”

There was a photo of Bob Hawke in a dinner jacket/tuxedo with, IIRC, Alan Bond and Laurie Connell, and maybe someone else, and they had cigars and were laughing uproariously. Seems impossible to locate these days, the weeders had some success there.

That was when Labor began losing its working class base.

captain_spalding said:

Boris said:

Former Victorian Liberal Party President Michael Kroger says Opposition Leader Peter Dutton is a “totally different character” compared to former US president Donald Trump.

Mr Kroger sat with Sky News host Paul Murray to discuss the failure of the Voice to Parliament referendum and the issues emerging of the Labor Party.

“What is troubling Labor is the fact that Dutton is appealing to the working middle class,” he told Mr Murray.

“Albanese is caught in this terrible bind between being the plaything of some of the extreme left Aboriginal leadership – the aristocracy.

“He’s losing his working-class base.”

There was a photo of Bob Hawke in a dinner jacket/tuxedo with, IIRC, Alan Bond and Laurie Connell, and maybe someone else, and they had cigars and were laughing uproariously. Seems impossible to locate these days, the weeders had some success there.

That was when Labor began losing its working class base.

Parties Should Be True To Their Historical Attachments Despite Massive And Fundamental Changes To Society ¡

SCIENCE said:

Parties Should Be True To Their Historical Attachments Not Lose Sight Of The Reasons That They Came Into Existence, Or Ignore The Fact That Those Reasons Are Still Valid Today, Despite Massive And Fundamental Changes To Society ¡

Fixed.

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

Parties Should Be True To Their Historical Attachments Not Lose Sight Of The Reasons That They Came Into Existence, Or Ignore The Fact That Those Reasons Are Still Valid Today, Despite Massive And Fundamental Changes To Society ¡

Fixed.

The ALP is still the political arm of the very diverse union movement.

captain_spalding said:

Boris said:

Former Victorian Liberal Party President Michael Kroger says Opposition Leader Peter Dutton is a “totally different character” compared to former US president Donald Trump.

Mr Kroger sat with Sky News host Paul Murray to discuss the failure of the Voice to Parliament referendum and the issues emerging of the Labor Party.

“What is troubling Labor is the fact that Dutton is appealing to the working middle class,” he told Mr Murray.

“Albanese is caught in this terrible bind between being the plaything of some of the extreme left Aboriginal leadership – the aristocracy.

“He’s losing his working-class base.”

There was a photo of Bob Hawke in a dinner jacket/tuxedo with, IIRC, Alan Bond and Laurie Connell, and maybe someone else, and they had cigars and were laughing uproariously. Seems impossible to locate these days, the weeders had some success there.

That was when Labor began losing its working class base.

“being the plaything of some of the extreme left Aboriginal leadership – the aristocracy.”

FFS.

Apart from anything else, the “ extreme left Aboriginal leadership” voted No.

Witty Rejoinder said:

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

Parties Should Be True To Their Historical Attachments Not Lose Sight Of The Reasons That They Came Into Existence, Or Ignore The Fact That Those Reasons Are Still Valid Today, Despite Massive And Fundamental Changes To Society ¡

Fixed.

The ALP is still the political arm of the very diverse union movement.

Although that sometimes seem to slip from the party’s collective memory. :)

The Rev Dodgson said:

captain_spalding said:

Boris said:

Former Victorian Liberal Party President Michael Kroger says Opposition Leader Peter Dutton is a “totally different character” compared to former US president Donald Trump.

Mr Kroger sat with Sky News host Paul Murray to discuss the failure of the Voice to Parliament referendum and the issues emerging of the Labor Party.

“What is troubling Labor is the fact that Dutton is appealing to the working middle class,” he told Mr Murray.

“Albanese is caught in this terrible bind between being the plaything of some of the extreme left Aboriginal leadership – the aristocracy.

“He’s losing his working-class base.”

There was a photo of Bob Hawke in a dinner jacket/tuxedo with, IIRC, Alan Bond and Laurie Connell, and maybe someone else, and they had cigars and were laughing uproariously. Seems impossible to locate these days, the weeders had some success there.

That was when Labor began losing its working class base.

“being the plaything of some of the extreme left Aboriginal leadership – the aristocracy.”

FFS.

Apart from anything else, the “ extreme left Aboriginal leadership” voted No.

And I seem to recall some very comfortable indigenous conservatives also campaigning hard for NO.

Bubblecar said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

captain_spalding said:

There was a photo of Bob Hawke in a dinner jacket/tuxedo with, IIRC, Alan Bond and Laurie Connell, and maybe someone else, and they had cigars and were laughing uproariously. Seems impossible to locate these days, the weeders had some success there.

That was when Labor began losing its working class base.

“being the plaything of some of the extreme left Aboriginal leadership – the aristocracy.”

FFS.

Apart from anything else, the “ extreme left Aboriginal leadership” voted No.

And I seem to recall some very comfortable indigenous conservatives also campaigning hard for NO.

Bill Hayden just died.

Tamb said:

Bubblecar said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

“being the plaything of some of the extreme left Aboriginal leadership – the aristocracy.”

FFS.

Apart from anything else, the “ extreme left Aboriginal leadership” voted No.

And I seem to recall some very comfortable indigenous conservatives also campaigning hard for NO.

Bill Hayden just died.

Yes, a good long run.

Bubblecar said:

Tamb said:

Bubblecar said:

And I seem to recall some very comfortable indigenous conservatives also campaigning hard for NO.

Bill Hayden just died.

Yes, a good long run.

He was 90.

Tamb said:

Bubblecar said:

Tamb said:

Bill Hayden just died.

Yes, a good long run.

He was 90.

If I live that long I’ll have another 26 years.

Bubblecar said:

Tamb said:

Bubblecar said:

Yes, a good long run.

He was 90.

If I live that long I’ll have another 26 years.

I’ll have about 7 and a bit.

Tamb said:

Bubblecar said:

Tamb said:

He was 90.

If I live that long I’ll have another 26 years.

I’ll have about 7 and a bit.

Good luck with that :)

Boris said:

Former Victorian Liberal Party President Michael Kroger says Opposition Leader Peter Dutton is a “totally different character” compared to former US president Donald Trump.

Mr Kroger sat with Sky News host Paul Murray to discuss the failure of the Voice to Parliament referendum and the issues emerging of the Labor Party.

“What is troubling Labor is the fact that Dutton is appealing to the working middle class,” he told Mr Murray.

“Albanese is caught in this terrible bind between being the plaything of some of the extreme left Aboriginal leadership – the aristocracy.

“He’s losing his working-class base.”

There’s no real evidence for this. Dutton remains deeply unpopular.

dv said:

Boris said:

Former Victorian Liberal Party President Michael Kroger says Opposition Leader Peter Dutton is a “totally different character” compared to former US president Donald Trump.

Mr Kroger sat with Sky News host Paul Murray to discuss the failure of the Voice to Parliament referendum and the issues emerging of the Labor Party.

“What is troubling Labor is the fact that Dutton is appealing to the working middle class,” he told Mr Murray.

“Albanese is caught in this terrible bind between being the plaything of some of the extreme left Aboriginal leadership – the aristocracy.

“He’s losing his working-class base.”

There’s no real evidence for this. Dutton remains deeply unpopular.

SKY remains consistent and relentless with lies supporting coalition and shitting on every one else.

dv said:

Boris said:

Former Victorian Liberal Party President Michael Kroger says Opposition Leader Peter Dutton is a “totally different character” compared to former US president Donald Trump.

Mr Kroger sat with Sky News host Paul Murray to discuss the failure of the Voice to Parliament referendum and the issues emerging of the Labor Party.

“What is troubling Labor is the fact that Dutton is appealing to the working middle class,” he told Mr Murray.

“Albanese is caught in this terrible bind between being the plaything of some of the extreme left Aboriginal leadership – the aristocracy.

“He’s losing his working-class base.”

There’s no real evidence for this. Dutton remains deeply unpopular.

I think anybody trying to link the referendum outcome to party politics is dreaming. The strongest Yes vote was in the conservative party heartlands (inner cities), and the strongest No vote in the Labour heartlands (outer metro). Yet the parties and their leadership teams were on the opposite side of how their heartlands voted.

It was not decided by party politics. Both seem disconnected to the electorate on this.

party_pants said:

dv said:

Boris said:

Former Victorian Liberal Party President Michael Kroger says Opposition Leader Peter Dutton is a “totally different character” compared to former US president Donald Trump.

Mr Kroger sat with Sky News host Paul Murray to discuss the failure of the Voice to Parliament referendum and the issues emerging of the Labor Party.

“What is troubling Labor is the fact that Dutton is appealing to the working middle class,” he told Mr Murray.

“Albanese is caught in this terrible bind between being the plaything of some of the extreme left Aboriginal leadership – the aristocracy.

“He’s losing his working-class base.”

There’s no real evidence for this. Dutton remains deeply unpopular.

I think anybody trying to link the referendum outcome to party politics is dreaming. The strongest Yes vote was in the conservative party heartlands (inner cities), and the strongest No vote in the Labour heartlands (outer metro). Yet the parties and their leadership teams were on the opposite side of how their heartlands voted.

It was not decided by party politics. Both seem disconnected to the electorate on this.

Many of those inner city areas are now Teal heartlands.

But yeah, I suspect most voters still regard Dutton as an awkward bullet-headed jerk who’ll be replaced at some stage.

Bubblecar said:

party_pants said:

dv said:

There’s no real evidence for this. Dutton remains deeply unpopular.

I think anybody trying to link the referendum outcome to party politics is dreaming. The strongest Yes vote was in the conservative party heartlands (inner cities), and the strongest No vote in the Labour heartlands (outer metro). Yet the parties and their leadership teams were on the opposite side of how their heartlands voted.

It was not decided by party politics. Both seem disconnected to the electorate on this.

Many of those inner city areas are now Teal heartlands.

But yeah, I suspect most voters still regard Dutton as an awkward bullet-headed jerk who’ll be replaced at some stage.

I regard the Teals as a temporary phenomenon, but yeah, point taken. Seems only the Teals and the Greens were in touch with their electorates on this.

https://michaelwest.com.au/jail-then-jail-and-more-jail-labors-assange-strategy-revealed/

captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

captain_spalding said:

Fixed.

The ALP is still the political arm of the very diverse union movement.

Although that sometimes seem to slip from the party’s collective memory. :)

We mean all the above are fair and if it has to be team sports and nominations then we do support the idea that teams should represent themselves honestly and put it to the poll and own the result even if their ideological position is no longer preferred.

party_pants said:

Bubblecar said:

party_pants said:

I think anybody trying to link the referendum outcome to party politics is dreaming. The strongest Yes vote was in the conservative party heartlands (inner cities), and the strongest No vote in the Labour heartlands (outer metro). Yet the parties and their leadership teams were on the opposite side of how their heartlands voted.

It was not decided by party politics. Both seem disconnected to the electorate on this.

Many of those inner city areas are now Teal heartlands.

But yeah, I suspect most voters still regard Dutton as an awkward bullet-headed jerk who’ll be replaced at some stage.

I regard the Teals as a temporary phenomenon, but yeah, point taken. Seems only the Teals and the Greens were in touch with their electorates on this.

Everything is temporary. If PD or anyone like him is heading the Libs in 2025 then I expect the Teals to do spectacularly.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12657723/Elderly-Queensland-woman-forced-live-car-soaring-rent-pushes-street.html

What happens when you keep packing 1.5 million new people into a country with a housing crisis

Thanks labor

In other news widespread power outages across QLD a few nights ago

wookiemeister said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12657723/Elderly-Queensland-woman-forced-live-car-soaring-rent-pushes-street.html

What happens when you keep packing 1.5 million new people into a country with a housing crisis

Thanks labor

In other news widespread power outages across QLD a few nights ago

Telstra waited until the height of the fire season to close down big lumps of their system for maintenance.
We are having the biggest multi brigade fire in history.

Tamb said:

wookiemeister said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12657723/Elderly-Queensland-woman-forced-live-car-soaring-rent-pushes-street.html

What happens when you keep packing 1.5 million new people into a country with a housing crisis

Thanks labor

In other news widespread power outages across QLD a few nights ago

Telstra waited until the height of the fire season to close down big lumps of their system for maintenance.
We are having the biggest multi brigade fire in history.

Dear oh dear.

Tamb said:

wookiemeister said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12657723/Elderly-Queensland-woman-forced-live-car-soaring-rent-pushes-street.html

What happens when you keep packing 1.5 million new people into a country with a housing crisis

Thanks labor

In other news widespread power outages across QLD a few nights ago

Telstra waited until the height of the fire season to close down big lumps of their system for maintenance.
We are having the biggest multi brigade fire in history.

Its why I say corporate competence is collapsing, they refuse to employ sound management

Again

When you pump in 1.5 million new people expect your comms system to start falling over AND telstra bills to start climbing.

Starlink is starting to look good again

Peak Warming Man said:

Tamb said:

wookiemeister said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12657723/Elderly-Queensland-woman-forced-live-car-soaring-rent-pushes-street.html

What happens when you keep packing 1.5 million new people into a country with a housing crisis

Thanks labor

In other news widespread power outages across QLD a few nights ago

Telstra waited until the height of the fire season to close down big lumps of their system for maintenance.
We are having the biggest multi brigade fire in history.

Dear oh dear.

Quite close to me.
AVOID SMOKE – Millstream (near Ravenshoe) – fire as at 2:35pm Saturday, 21 October 2023

Warning Level: Advice

Warning Area: Millstream and surrounding areas
Smoke is currently affecting Millstream and surrounding areas. This is from a fire burning south of the Millstream Gorge. This fire is under control.

Peak Warming Man said:

Tamb said:

wookiemeister said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12657723/Elderly-Queensland-woman-forced-live-car-soaring-rent-pushes-street.html

What happens when you keep packing 1.5 million new people into a country with a housing crisis

Thanks labor

In other news widespread power outages across QLD a few nights ago

Telstra waited until the height of the fire season to close down big lumps of their system for maintenance.
We are having the biggest multi brigade fire in history.

Dear oh dear.

I’ve just had a stunning , brave and diverse thought

Telstra should screw with the comms system over the 2 week Xmas period. Have it so it takes 5 minutes to download anything and then as soon as people return to work everything goes back to normal.

Tamb said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Tamb said:

Telstra waited until the height of the fire season to close down big lumps of their system for maintenance.
We are having the biggest multi brigade fire in history.

Dear oh dear.

Quite close to me.
AVOID SMOKE – Millstream (near Ravenshoe) – fire as at 2:35pm Saturday, 21 October 2023

Warning Level: Advice

Warning Area: Millstream and surrounding areas
Smoke is currently affecting Millstream and surrounding areas. This is from a fire burning south of the Millstream Gorge. This fire is under control.

Ahhh that’s the dry side of Ravenshoe. I find as soon as you get past Ravenshoe it quickly gets brown out there

wookiemeister said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12657723/Elderly-Queensland-woman-forced-live-car-soaring-rent-pushes-street.html

What happens when you keep packing 1.5 million new people into a country with a housing crisis

Thanks labor

In other news widespread power outages across QLD a few nights ago

Australia net migration is less than 150,000. But never let an order of magnitude get in the way of a good argument.

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12657723/Elderly-Queensland-woman-forced-live-car-soaring-rent-pushes-street.html

What happens when you keep packing 1.5 million new people into a country with a housing crisis

Thanks labor

In other news widespread power outages across QLD a few nights ago

Australia net migration is less than 150,000. But never let an order of magnitude get in the way of a good argument.

or even a crap one.

Boris said:

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12657723/Elderly-Queensland-woman-forced-live-car-soaring-rent-pushes-street.html

What happens when you keep packing 1.5 million new people into a country with a housing crisis

Thanks labor

In other news widespread power outages across QLD a few nights ago

Australia net migration is less than 150,000. But never let an order of magnitude get in the way of a good argument.

or even a crap one.

touche

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12657723/Elderly-Queensland-woman-forced-live-car-soaring-rent-pushes-street.html

What happens when you keep packing 1.5 million new people into a country with a housing crisis

Thanks labor

In other news widespread power outages across QLD a few nights ago

Australia net migration is less than 150,000. But never let an order of magnitude get in the way of a good argument.

Have you ever thought that they might be lying to you ?

wookiemeister said:

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12657723/Elderly-Queensland-woman-forced-live-car-soaring-rent-pushes-street.html

What happens when you keep packing 1.5 million new people into a country with a housing crisis

Thanks labor

In other news widespread power outages across QLD a few nights ago

Australia net migration is less than 150,000. But never let an order of magnitude get in the way of a good argument.

Have you ever thought that they might be lying to you ?

Hundreds of people lining up to inspect some crappy rental is something that’s been building since around 2007, its only got worse since ( with cv19 there was a respite)

wookiemeister said:

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12657723/Elderly-Queensland-woman-forced-live-car-soaring-rent-pushes-street.html

What happens when you keep packing 1.5 million new people into a country with a housing crisis

Thanks labor

In other news widespread power outages across QLD a few nights ago

Australia net migration is less than 150,000. But never let an order of magnitude get in the way of a good argument.

Have you ever thought that they might be lying to you ?

No, But I think that of you nearly every time you make a post.

wookiemeister said:

wookiemeister said:

party_pants said:

Australia net migration is less than 150,000. But never let an order of magnitude get in the way of a good argument.

Have you ever thought that they might be lying to you ?

Hundreds of people lining up to inspect some crappy rental is something that’s been building since around 2007, its only got worse since ( with cv19 there was a respite)

I already know the main causes of that, and how to fix it. But I’m not in a position to implement it.

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

party_pants said:

Australia net migration is less than 150,000. But never let an order of magnitude get in the way of a good argument.

Have you ever thought that they might be lying to you ?

No, But I think that of you nearly every time you make a post.

I tend to evaluate from what I see around me rather than cooked books made by the government

The true debt owed by Australia is probably much worse than you are told – then we have all those submarines to look forward to

1 billion for the failed seasprite helicopter program was a drop in the bucket no one remembers.

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

wookiemeister said:

Have you ever thought that they might be lying to you ?

Hundreds of people lining up to inspect some crappy rental is something that’s been building since around 2007, its only got worse since ( with cv19 there was a respite)

I already know the main causes of that, and how to fix it. But I’m not in a position to implement it.

Fire

wookiemeister said:

wookiemeister said:

party_pants said:

Australia net migration is less than 150,000. But never let an order of magnitude get in the way of a good argument.

Have you ever thought that they might be lying to you ?

Hundreds of people lining up to inspect some crappy rental is something that’s been building since around 2007, its only got worse since ( with cv19 there was a respite)

When people rented out the airBnBs.

I remember back in the Gunns threads…that I was proven right with by the end…calling for tourism and not forestry…coz the money was tourism and saved ecosystems too.

I remember DV asking me earnestly whether I was good with OTT tourism and I said sure. I hadn’t extrapolated that it would result in widespread homelessness.

sarahs mum said:

wookiemeister said:

wookiemeister said:

Have you ever thought that they might be lying to you ?

Hundreds of people lining up to inspect some crappy rental is something that’s been building since around 2007, its only got worse since ( with cv19 there was a respite)

When people rented out the airBnBs.

I remember back in the Gunns threads…that I was proven right with by the end…calling for tourism and not forestry…coz the money was tourism and saved ecosystems too.

I remember DV asking me earnestly whether I was good with OTT tourism and I said sure. I hadn’t extrapolated that it would result in widespread homelessness.

Honestly there’s no reason for tourism to lead to homelessness unless the government is completely incompetent and can’t a) protect the residential sphere from the short term accommodation sphere and b) can’t capture enough of the extra revenue to support new housing.

dv said:

sarahs mum said:

wookiemeister said:

Hundreds of people lining up to inspect some crappy rental is something that’s been building since around 2007, its only got worse since ( with cv19 there was a respite)

When people rented out the airBnBs.

I remember back in the Gunns threads…that I was proven right with by the end…calling for tourism and not forestry…coz the money was tourism and saved ecosystems too.

I remember DV asking me earnestly whether I was good with OTT tourism and I said sure. I hadn’t extrapolated that it would result in widespread homelessness.

Honestly there’s no reason for tourism to lead to homelessness unless the government is completely incompetent and can’t a) protect the residential sphere from the short term accommodation sphere and b) can’t capture enough of the extra revenue to support new housing.

or c) won’t.

still banging on.

sarahs mum said:

still banging on.

Sky really don’t care how clownish their clowns appear.

Bubblecar said:

sarahs mum said:

still banging on.

Sky really don’t care how clownish their clowns appear.

relentless arseholery works.

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12657723/Elderly-Queensland-woman-forced-live-car-soaring-rent-pushes-street.html

What happens when you keep packing 1.5 million new people into a country with a housing crisis

Thanks labor

In other news widespread power outages across QLD a few nights ago

Australia net migration is less than 150,000. But never let an order of magnitude get in the way of a good argument.

Resumption of positive net migration after COVID-19 travel restrictions lifted – a net gain of 171,000 people recorded

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/overseas-migration/latest-release#migrant-arrivals

That however is still the tip of the iceberg as there are considerably more temporary migrants, like overseas uni students, etc, that in 21/22 numbered nearly 400,000, which will very likely increase due to a reduction of COVID restrictions. All these people need to be housed and there are simply not enough affordable houses available.

sarahs mum said:

Bubblecar said:

sarahs mum said:

still banging on.

Sky really don’t care how clownish their clowns appear.

relentless arseholery works.

Sky News must be a very boring place to work.

The requirement to don the hat of puerile right-wing bias for the whole time you’re at work must be very tiresome. And, on top of that, you’d have to spend a great deal of effort having to dodge the loathsome Peta Credlin, in the same way that you’d dodge a drunk covered with their own sick.

PermeateFree said:

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12657723/Elderly-Queensland-woman-forced-live-car-soaring-rent-pushes-street.html

What happens when you keep packing 1.5 million new people into a country with a housing crisis

Thanks labor

In other news widespread power outages across QLD a few nights ago

Australia net migration is less than 150,000. But never let an order of magnitude get in the way of a good argument.

Resumption of positive net migration after COVID-19 travel restrictions lifted – a net gain of 171,000 people recorded

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/overseas-migration/latest-release#migrant-arrivals

That however is still the tip of the iceberg as there are considerably more temporary migrants, like overseas uni students, etc, that in 21/22 numbered nearly 400,000, which will very likely increase due to a reduction of COVID restrictions. All these people need to be housed and there are simply not enough affordable houses available.

Like we were told,. it’s a place where if you have a go, you’ll get a go.

Although you may not get a roof over your head.

PermeateFree said:

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12657723/Elderly-Queensland-woman-forced-live-car-soaring-rent-pushes-street.html

What happens when you keep packing 1.5 million new people into a country with a housing crisis

Thanks labor

In other news widespread power outages across QLD a few nights ago

Australia net migration is less than 150,000. But never let an order of magnitude get in the way of a good argument.

Resumption of positive net migration after COVID-19 travel restrictions lifted – a net gain of 171,000 people recorded

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/overseas-migration/latest-release#migrant-arrivals

That however is still the tip of the iceberg as there are considerably more temporary migrants, like overseas uni students, etc, that in 21/22 numbered nearly 400,000, which will very likely increase due to a reduction of COVID restrictions. All these people need to be housed and there are simply not enough affordable houses available.

We should attempt to solve the problem from the supply side, not by reducing demand.

Build more social housing – directly owned and administered by the state.

Change the tax system to incentise the construction of new housing stock, not just sitting on old stock for a few years and hoping to sell it off at a profit later on. Negative gearing should only apply to houses of a (pick a number) years old or newer. This is a way to get more churn and more infill development.

Restrict non-resident foreign buyers from residential real estate.

Build new cities. Even as private ventures. Run like company towns. Private cities compete to attract businesses and settlers. Drawing pressure away from the big cities.

party_pants said:

We should attempt to solve the problem from the supply side, not by reducing demand.

Build more social housing – directly owned and administered by the state.

It does seem, on the surface, at least, that the decrease in housing availability has been worsening since government housing authorities began to withdraw from an active role in the construction of social housing and began attempts to ‘partner’ with private construction and development firms, if not leave the whole thing entirely up to ‘market forces’.

I suspect that, these days, governments are shit-scared of resuming any such direct involvement in the supply of housing, as the creation of a stock of available and affordable houses would impact on the existing housing market, knocking dollars off the valuations of properties which generate council rates and other fees and taxes, as well as reducing the value of the banks’ (a force not to be trifled with) mortgage holdings, and the competition to actually get hold of a house. Not in the interests of property speculators, including more than a few MPs in various governments and oppositions.

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

party_pants said:

Australia net migration is less than 150,000. But never let an order of magnitude get in the way of a good argument.

Resumption of positive net migration after COVID-19 travel restrictions lifted – a net gain of 171,000 people recorded

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/overseas-migration/latest-release#migrant-arrivals

That however is still the tip of the iceberg as there are considerably more temporary migrants, like overseas uni students, etc, that in 21/22 numbered nearly 400,000, which will very likely increase due to a reduction of COVID restrictions. All these people need to be housed and there are simply not enough affordable houses available.

We should attempt to solve the problem from the supply side, not by reducing demand.

Build more social housing – directly owned and administered by the state.

Change the tax system to incentise the construction of new housing stock, not just sitting on old stock for a few years and hoping to sell it off at a profit later on. Negative gearing should only apply to houses of a (pick a number) years old or newer. This is a way to get more churn and more infill development.

Restrict non-resident foreign buyers from residential real estate.

Build new cities. Even as private ventures. Run like company towns. Private cities compete to attract businesses and settlers. Drawing pressure away from the big cities.

All new housing funds do not solve the problem as the new annual intake of migrants will fill these houses as soon as they are built, therefore the current housing situation will not go away unless a lot more money is made available. There has been little discussion on where the land required to build all these houses will come from, do we do as we usually do by grabbing undeveloped land and again ignore the plight of the environment?

sarahs mum said:

still banging on.

in fairness to Sky, they got 50% of that right

diddly-squat said:

sarahs mum said:

still banging on.

in fairness to Sky, they got 50% of that right

I don’t open sky news stories. I still get offered them every day and everyday was NO until everyday it was sack Albo.

sarahs mum said:

diddly-squat said:

sarahs mum said:

still banging on.

in fairness to Sky, they got 50% of that right

I don’t open sky news stories. I still get offered them every day and everyday was NO until everyday it was sack Albo.

I deleted the station from my TV.

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

party_pants said:

Australia net migration is less than 150,000. But never let an order of magnitude get in the way of a good argument.

Resumption of positive net migration after COVID-19 travel restrictions lifted – a net gain of 171,000 people recorded

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/overseas-migration/latest-release#migrant-arrivals

That however is still the tip of the iceberg as there are considerably more temporary migrants, like overseas uni students, etc, that in 21/22 numbered nearly 400,000, which will very likely increase due to a reduction of COVID restrictions. All these people need to be housed and there are simply not enough affordable houses available.

We should attempt to solve the problem from the supply side, not by reducing demand.

Build more social housing – directly owned and administered by the state.

Change the tax system to incentise the construction of new housing stock, not just sitting on old stock for a few years and hoping to sell it off at a profit later on. Negative gearing should only apply to houses of a (pick a number) years old or newer. This is a way to get more churn and more infill development.

Restrict non-resident foreign buyers from residential real estate.

Build new cities. Even as private ventures. Run like company towns. Private cities compete to attract businesses and settlers. Drawing pressure away from the big cities.

we could resume bush blocks and those people could be rehoused in the cities. The land could then be revegetated to almost natural.

Post war in Australia and through to the 1980’s most houses were quite small and were affordable to most people with a job. Now a married couple want a huge house many times larger with pool and all mod cons, which are considerably more expensive and unaffordable to most people. Perhaps we should adjust our expectations as to what sort of home is suitable.

PermeateFree said:

party_pants said:

PermeateFree said:

Resumption of positive net migration after COVID-19 travel restrictions lifted – a net gain of 171,000 people recorded

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/overseas-migration/latest-release#migrant-arrivals

That however is still the tip of the iceberg as there are considerably more temporary migrants, like overseas uni students, etc, that in 21/22 numbered nearly 400,000, which will very likely increase due to a reduction of COVID restrictions. All these people need to be housed and there are simply not enough affordable houses available.

We should attempt to solve the problem from the supply side, not by reducing demand.

Build more social housing – directly owned and administered by the state.

Change the tax system to incentise the construction of new housing stock, not just sitting on old stock for a few years and hoping to sell it off at a profit later on. Negative gearing should only apply to houses of a (pick a number) years old or newer. This is a way to get more churn and more infill development.

Restrict non-resident foreign buyers from residential real estate.

Build new cities. Even as private ventures. Run like company towns. Private cities compete to attract businesses and settlers. Drawing pressure away from the big cities.

All new housing funds do not solve the problem as the new annual intake of migrants will fill these houses as soon as they are built, therefore the current housing situation will not go away unless a lot more money is made available. There has been little discussion on where the land required to build all these houses will come from, do we do as we usually do by grabbing undeveloped land and again ignore the plight of the environment?

The land will come from existing old stock. For most of the housing stock in Australia cities, they were built at what were at the time the outer suburbs of that city. They were generally built with the cheapest materials and construction techniques available at the time. The are generally quite energy inefficient. Time to start knocking them down and rebuilding with new stock, according to the most modern standards of energy efficiency and insulation, with consideration given to passive measures. Change the tax system to incentivise that.

PermeateFree said:

Post war in Australia and through to the 1980’s most houses were quite small and were affordable to most people with a job. Now a married couple want a huge house many times larger with pool and all mod cons, which are considerably more expensive and unaffordable to most people. Perhaps we should adjust our expectations as to what sort of home is suitable.

lol

PermeateFree said:

Post war in Australia and through to the 1980’s most houses were quite small and were affordable to most people with a job. Now a married couple want a huge house many times larger with pool and all mod cons, which are considerably more expensive and unaffordable to most people. Perhaps we should adjust our expectations as to what sort of home is suitable.

This.

diddly-squat said:

PermeateFree said:

Post war in Australia and through to the 1980’s most houses were quite small and were affordable to most people with a job. Now a married couple want a huge house many times larger with pool and all mod cons, which are considerably more expensive and unaffordable to most people. Perhaps we should adjust our expectations as to what sort of home is suitable.

lol

The problem is that there’s no going back.

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

Post war in Australia and through to the 1980’s most houses were quite small and were affordable to most people with a job. Now a married couple want a huge house many times larger with pool and all mod cons, which are considerably more expensive and unaffordable to most people. Perhaps we should adjust our expectations as to what sort of home is suitable.

This.

small houses on large blocks. now we have larger houses on smaller blocks.

Boris said:

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

Post war in Australia and through to the 1980’s most houses were quite small and were affordable to most people with a job. Now a married couple want a huge house many times larger with pool and all mod cons, which are considerably more expensive and unaffordable to most people. Perhaps we should adjust our expectations as to what sort of home is suitable.

This.

small houses on large blocks. now we have larger houses on smaller blocks.

In many cases, hard to worm your way between the house and the fence.

I grew up in a North Shore war service area. 1958. Brick and weatherboard. Four bedrooms, one bathroom, open plan kitchen/living, dining room, formal lounge. downstairs…a garage, a workshop, a tool room, a rumpus room, laundry with shower and separate toilet. It was a pretty decent sized house. Google earth says it now has another wing. I assume downstairs has a granny flat.

there were a number of rated architect dwellings in the street.

There was one section of the development where you could build in fibro.

Just saying all the post war building wasn’t trashy.

There was one section of the development where you could build in fibro.

—-many of them were brick veeered in the 80s.

There was one section of the development where you could build in fibro.

—-many of them were brick veneered in the 80s.

diddly-squat said:

PermeateFree said:

Post war in Australia and through to the 1980’s most houses were quite small and were affordable to most people with a job. Now a married couple want a huge house many times larger with pool and all mod cons, which are considerably more expensive and unaffordable to most people. Perhaps we should adjust our expectations as to what sort of home is suitable.

lol

He’s right that besides medicine everything else is getting cheaper so people put all their excess income into their houses.

Boris said:

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

Post war in Australia and through to the 1980’s most houses were quite small and were affordable to most people with a job. Now a married couple want a huge house many times larger with pool and all mod cons, which are considerably more expensive and unaffordable to most people. Perhaps we should adjust our expectations as to what sort of home is suitable.

This.

small houses on large blocks. now we have larger houses on smaller blocks.

Also utterly car-dependent.

roughbarked said:

Boris said:

roughbarked said:

This.

small houses on large blocks. now we have larger houses on smaller blocks.

In many cases, hard to worm your way between the house and the fence.

A friend of a friend is an air conditioner servicer. It’s not unusual for him to have to ask for permission from a neighbour to be able to access someone’s unit.

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

Post war in Australia and through to the 1980’s most houses were quite small and were affordable to most people with a job. Now a married couple want a huge house many times larger with pool and all mod cons, which are considerably more expensive and unaffordable to most people. Perhaps we should adjust our expectations as to what sort of home is suitable.

This.

let’s be clear.. “expectations” are not the problem here.. the issue is that the value of housing has risen much, much faster than wages have.

Young people can’t afford a house because their expectations are too high, they can’t afford a house because saving for a deposit whilst paying rent is very very difficult, and then servicing a mortgage is more than they can afford.

roughbarked said:

Boris said:

roughbarked said:

This.

small houses on large blocks. now we have larger houses on smaller blocks.

In many cases, hard to worm your way between the house and the fence.

It may come as a surprise but not everyone wants, or needs, an acre block…

diddly-squat said:

roughbarked said:

Boris said:

small houses on large blocks. now we have larger houses on smaller blocks.

In many cases, hard to worm your way between the house and the fence.

It may come as a surprise but not everyone wants, or needs, an acre block…

yes, some here think that what they want everybody should have.

Boris said:

diddly-squat said:

roughbarked said:

In many cases, hard to worm your way between the house and the fence.

It may come as a surprise but not everyone wants, or needs, an acre block…

yes, some here think that what they want everybody should have.

in one hand: kids’ expectations are too damn high…
in the other: can you believe these kids want to live on blocks that are so small they can barely fit between the fence the house…

diddly-squat said:

let’s be clear.. “expectations” are not the problem here.. the issue is that the value of housing has risen much, much faster than wages have.

Young people can’t afford a house because their expectations are too high, they can’t afford a house because saving for a deposit whilst paying rent is very very difficult, and then servicing a mortgage is more than they can afford.

Yes. The rent-save-buy model is broken for our largest cities. We have had decades of house prices going up faster than inflation, while at the same time wages growth has fallen behind inflation. It was good for a time, for a certain generation, but this is the inevitable long term outcome of persisting with such policies.

party_pants said:

diddly-squat said:

let’s be clear.. “expectations” are not the problem here.. the issue is that the value of housing has risen much, much faster than wages have.

Young people can’t afford a house because their expectations are too high, they can’t afford a house because saving for a deposit whilst paying rent is very very difficult, and then servicing a mortgage is more than they can afford.

Yes. The rent-save-buy model is broken for our largest cities. We have had decades of house prices going up faster than inflation, while at the same time wages growth has fallen behind inflation. It was good for a time, for a certain generation, but this is the inevitable long term outcome of persisting with such policies.

but you telling the boomers that and they won’t believe you!

party_pants said:

diddly-squat said:

let’s be clear.. “expectations” are not the problem here.. the issue is that the value of housing has risen much, much faster than wages have.

Young people can’t afford a house because their expectations are too high, they can’t afford a house because saving for a deposit whilst paying rent is very very difficult, and then servicing a mortgage is more than they can afford.

Yes. The rent-save-buy model is broken for our largest cities. We have had decades of house prices going up faster than inflation, while at the same time wages growth has fallen behind inflation. It was good for a time, for a certain generation, but this is the inevitable long term outcome of persisting with such policies.

I understand what you mean but for me the inflation bit is a furphy… Housing, as a commodity, has risen in value as a result of direct intervention from the government. Policies like capital gains discounts, negative gearing and the various “tradie” and “new home owner” schemes all only add fuel tot he fire. Not too long back we had an election where, not unlike the voice, Australia voted down what would have been modest changes to this system.

People may talk about wanting to solve the problem, but no one is prepared to take the personal hit to make it happen.

I’m not seeing a too many calls for people with large blocks to subdivide to increase supply…

diddly-squat said:

party_pants said:

diddly-squat said:

let’s be clear.. “expectations” are not the problem here.. the issue is that the value of housing has risen much, much faster than wages have.

Young people can’t afford a house because their expectations are too high, they can’t afford a house because saving for a deposit whilst paying rent is very very difficult, and then servicing a mortgage is more than they can afford.

Yes. The rent-save-buy model is broken for our largest cities. We have had decades of house prices going up faster than inflation, while at the same time wages growth has fallen behind inflation. It was good for a time, for a certain generation, but this is the inevitable long term outcome of persisting with such policies.

I understand what you mean but for me the inflation bit is a furphy… Housing, as a commodity, has risen in value as a result of direct intervention from the government. Policies like capital gains discounts, negative gearing and the various “tradie” and “new home owner” schemes all only add fuel tot he fire. Not too long back we had an election where, not unlike the voice, Australia voted down what would have been modest changes to this system.

People may talk about wanting to solve the problem, but no one is prepared to take the personal hit to make it happen.

I’m not seeing a too many calls for people with large blocks to subdivide to increase supply…

I have my faith in Albo to revisit some of the proposals Shorten took to the 2019 election before he again goes to the people. And the stage 3 tax-cuts!

diddly-squat said:

roughbarked said:

Boris said:

small houses on large blocks. now we have larger houses on smaller blocks.

In many cases, hard to worm your way between the house and the fence.

It may come as a surprise but not everyone wants, or needs, an acre block…

It’s no surprise. An acre block almost needs a tractor to look after the place.

Boris said:

diddly-squat said:

roughbarked said:

In many cases, hard to worm your way between the house and the fence.

It may come as a surprise but not everyone wants, or needs, an acre block…

yes, some here think that what they want everybody should have.

I want not for landspace but I wouldn’t wish it on people who dont want it.

roughbarked said:

diddly-squat said:

roughbarked said:

In many cases, hard to worm your way between the house and the fence.

It may come as a surprise but not everyone wants, or needs, an acre block…

It’s no surprise. An acre block almost needs a tractor to look after the place.

Or 1/5 of a Buffy.

Witty Rejoinder said:

roughbarked said:

diddly-squat said:

It may come as a surprise but not everyone wants, or needs, an acre block…

It’s no surprise. An acre block almost needs a tractor to look after the place.

Or 1/5 of a Buffy.

She has tractors, when they aren’t bogged that is.

Boris said:

party_pants said:

diddly-squat said:

let’s be clear.. “expectations” are not the problem here.. the issue is that the value of housing has risen much, much faster than wages have.

Young people can’t afford a house because their expectations are too high, they can’t afford a house because saving for a deposit whilst paying rent is very very difficult, and then servicing a mortgage is more than they can afford.

Yes. The rent-save-buy model is broken for our largest cities. We have had decades of house prices going up faster than inflation, while at the same time wages growth has fallen behind inflation. It was good for a time, for a certain generation, but this is the inevitable long term outcome of persisting with such policies.

but you telling the boomers that and they won’t believe you!

They are starting to die off though…

Witty Rejoinder said:

roughbarked said:

diddly-squat said:

It may come as a surprise but not everyone wants, or needs, an acre block…

It’s no surprise. An acre block almost needs a tractor to look after the place.

Or 1/5 of a Buffy.

Why thank you!

:)

Although I think I might find it challenging to maintain 5 acres of grass…

>>People may talk about wanting to solve the problem, but no one is prepared to take the personal hit to make it happen.

Also most parliamentarians on a fed and state level are heavily invested in realestate.

>>>I’m not seeing a too many calls for people with large blocks to subdivide to increase supply…

I was thinking about 20 minutes ago about how long my 32 acres will stay being 32 acres.

Witty Rejoinder said:

diddly-squat said:

party_pants said:

Yes. The rent-save-buy model is broken for our largest cities. We have had decades of house prices going up faster than inflation, while at the same time wages growth has fallen behind inflation. It was good for a time, for a certain generation, but this is the inevitable long term outcome of persisting with such policies.

I understand what you mean but for me the inflation bit is a furphy… Housing, as a commodity, has risen in value as a result of direct intervention from the government. Policies like capital gains discounts, negative gearing and the various “tradie” and “new home owner” schemes all only add fuel tot he fire. Not too long back we had an election where, not unlike the voice, Australia voted down what would have been modest changes to this system.

People may talk about wanting to solve the problem, but no one is prepared to take the personal hit to make it happen.

I’m not seeing a too many calls for people with large blocks to subdivide to increase supply…

I have my faith in Albo to revisit some of the proposals Shorten took to the 2019 election before he again goes to the people. And the stage 3 tax-cuts!

I hope not.. keeping the stage 3 tax cuts were a core promise…. Further, I think that leaning back on changing this is lazy politics.. keep the stage 3 tax cuts then do actual tax reform.

diddly-squat said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

diddly-squat said:

I understand what you mean but for me the inflation bit is a furphy… Housing, as a commodity, has risen in value as a result of direct intervention from the government. Policies like capital gains discounts, negative gearing and the various “tradie” and “new home owner” schemes all only add fuel tot he fire. Not too long back we had an election where, not unlike the voice, Australia voted down what would have been modest changes to this system.

People may talk about wanting to solve the problem, but no one is prepared to take the personal hit to make it happen.

I’m not seeing a too many calls for people with large blocks to subdivide to increase supply…

I have my faith in Albo to revisit some of the proposals Shorten took to the 2019 election before he again goes to the people. And the stage 3 tax-cuts!

I hope not.. keeping the stage 3 tax cuts were a core promise…. Further, I think that leaning back on changing this is lazy politics.. keep the stage 3 tax cuts then do actual tax reform.

If he takes it to election I think he can’t be accused of breaking a core-commitment. Plus I think the $300B odd tax cuts for the wealthy would be better directed towards tax-offsets for everyone.

Witty Rejoinder said:

diddly-squat said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I have my faith in Albo to revisit some of the proposals Shorten took to the 2019 election before he again goes to the people. And the stage 3 tax-cuts!

I hope not.. keeping the stage 3 tax cuts were a core promise…. Further, I think that leaning back on changing this is lazy politics.. keep the stage 3 tax cuts then do actual tax reform.

If he takes it to election I think he can’t be accused of breaking a core-commitment. Plus I think the $300B odd tax cuts for the wealthy would be better directed towards tax-offsets for everyone.

Sure, but that’s not what the stage 3 tax cuts are… we need to fundamentally change the tax system in this country and the first step is stop makibg it about income tax.

diddly-squat said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

diddly-squat said:

I hope not.. keeping the stage 3 tax cuts were a core promise…. Further, I think that leaning back on changing this is lazy politics.. keep the stage 3 tax cuts then do actual tax reform.

If he takes it to election I think he can’t be accused of breaking a core-commitment. Plus I think the $300B odd tax cuts for the wealthy would be better directed towards tax-offsets for everyone.

Sure, but that’s not what the stage 3 tax cuts are… we need to fundamentally change the tax system in this country and the first step is stop makibg it about income tax.

Go on.

Communism¡

SCIENCE said:

Communism¡

When?

diddly-squat said:

Sure, but that’s not what the stage 3 tax cuts are… we need to fundamentally change the tax system in this country and the first step is stop makibg it about income tax.

Interesting. What sort of model do you have in mind?

party_pants said:

diddly-squat said:

Sure, but that’s not what the stage 3 tax cuts are… we need to fundamentally change the tax system in this country and the first step is stop makibg it about income tax.

Interesting. What sort of model do you have in mind?

One that targets taxing wealth and not just income.

Lower income tax rates across the board but put a hard upper limit on deductions (this solves negative gearing without having to remove it). Eliminate capital gains discounts and superannuation concessions. Tax income derived from super at the same rate as everyone else. Introduce death duties. Simplify corporate tax structures so that there are few ways to minimise earnings. Introduce federal super profit taxes for resource companies.

sarahs mum said:

I grew up in a North Shore war service area. 1958. Brick and weatherboard. Four bedrooms, one bathroom, open plan kitchen/living, dining room, formal lounge. downstairs…a garage, a workshop, a tool room, a rumpus room, laundry with shower and separate toilet. It was a pretty decent sized house. Google earth says it now has another wing. I assume downstairs has a granny flat.

there were a number of rated architect dwellings in the street.

There was one section of the development where you could build in fibro.

Just saying all the post war building wasn’t trashy.

Just because some houses were small it did not mean they were trashy. Of course not all houses were small, but the smaller ones were more affordable, and after a few years moved onto larger or better situated ones. They were the starting point for many.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12658499/GP-price-rise-doctors-welfare-pensioners.html

More people in Australia , same or less doctors

The prices go up

diddly-squat said:

roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

Post war in Australia and through to the 1980’s most houses were quite small and were affordable to most people with a job. Now a married couple want a huge house many times larger with pool and all mod cons, which are considerably more expensive and unaffordable to most people. Perhaps we should adjust our expectations as to what sort of home is suitable.

This.

let’s be clear.. “expectations” are not the problem here.. the issue is that the value of housing has risen much, much faster than wages have.

Young people can’t afford a house because their expectations are too high, they can’t afford a house because saving for a deposit whilst paying rent is very very difficult, and then servicing a mortgage is more than they can afford.

Expectations govern everything now and everyone takes a cut, especially State and Local Governments. Becoming accustomed to increasing wealth we have pushed every major purchase to a higher level of expectation, there is no avoiding it.

No

more people

Less houses

Price goes up

You want to live in a first world house in a country rapidly moving backwards – it will cost you more.

Most of us will be living in “lifestyle” apartments ie slums

wookiemeister said:

No

more people

Less houses

Price goes up

You want to live in a first world house in a country rapidly moving backwards – it will cost you more.

Most of us will be living in “lifestyle” apartments ie slums

There is some truth in that.

More people

More cars, more fuel used, prices go up
More cars, more roads, registration goes up
Less doctors, prices go up
More electricity needed , prices go up
More centrelink needed, taxes go up to pay for it
More water needed, prices for water go up
More houses needed, house prices go up
More food needed, food prices go up
More aircraft needed, prices go up
More government, prices go up

Imagine playing monopoly where extra people enter the game everything you pass go. The money supply is expanded to accommodate the new comers. The house prices go up. Some players aren’t on the board but they can buy property, taxes , these players are from other games where they have win the game but now need to invest into other games.

wookiemeister said:

Imagine playing monopoly where extra people enter the game everything you pass go. The money supply is expanded to accommodate the new comers. The house prices go up. Some players aren’t on the board but they can buy property, taxes , these players are from other games where they have win the game but now need to invest into other games.

You are forced to keep going round the board, other players aren’t on the board, they are happy to see new players that are forced to have a piece on the board. Those players eventually lose all their money and have to sit in the middle. The only way to keep the game going is by adding more real time players. A certain number of the players already have large sections of property AND they can claim any fee as a tax deduction – in this game they would be given thousands by the bank everything they passed go to offset the convenience

wookiemeister said:

wookiemeister said:

Imagine playing monopoly where extra people enter the game everything you pass go. The money supply is expanded to accommodate the new comers. The house prices go up. Some players aren’t on the board but they can buy property, taxes , these players are from other games where they have win the game but now need to invest into other games.

You are forced to keep going round the board, other players aren’t on the board, they are happy to see new players that are forced to have a piece on the board. Those players eventually lose all their money and have to sit in the middle. The only way to keep the game going is by adding more real time players. A certain number of the players already have large sections of property AND they can claim any fee as a tax deduction – in this game they would be given thousands by the bank everything they passed go to offset the convenience

When the player dies the piece is returned to the collection box and then given to the next player of the game ( unless you are purely an investor and you can take money on and off the board)

wookiemeister said:

wookiemeister said:

wookiemeister said:

Imagine playing monopoly where extra people enter the game everything you pass go. The money supply is expanded to accommodate the new comers. The house prices go up. Some players aren’t on the board but they can buy property, taxes , these players are from other games where they have win the game but now need to invest into other games.

You are forced to keep going round the board, other players aren’t on the board, they are happy to see new players that are forced to have a piece on the board. Those players eventually lose all their money and have to sit in the middle. The only way to keep the game going is by adding more real time players. A certain number of the players already have large sections of property AND they can claim any fee as a tax deduction – in this game they would be given thousands by the bank everything they passed go to offset the convenience

When the player dies the piece is returned to the collection box and then given to the next player of the game ( unless you are purely an investor and you can take money on and off the board)

Remember: immigration and investment is good

party_pants said:

diddly-squat said:

Sure, but that’s not what the stage 3 tax cuts are… we need to fundamentally change the tax system in this country and the first step is stop makibg it about income tax.

Interesting. What sort of model do you have in mind?

Why do we?

I often hear that said, but I have never seen a single good argument for doing it.

The Rev Dodgson said:

party_pants said:

diddly-squat said:

Sure, but that’s not what the stage 3 tax cuts are… we need to fundamentally change the tax system in this country and the first step is stop makibg it about income tax.

Interesting. What sort of model do you have in mind?

Why do we?

I often hear that said, but I have never seen a single good argument for doing it.

In the Australian model taxes are used to fuel immigration. Howard’s economic miracle was to increase immigration and then introduce GST to pay for it

The british did this in the 1970s, industrial immigration could only happen after VAT (GST ) was introduced.

They will try to put up GST to fuel more immigration on the monopoly board

wookiemeister said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

party_pants said:

Interesting. What sort of model do you have in mind?

Why do we?

I often hear that said, but I have never seen a single good argument for doing it.

In the Australian model taxes are used to fuel immigration. Howard’s economic miracle was to increase immigration and then introduce GST to pay for it

The british did this in the 1970s, industrial immigration could only happen after VAT (GST ) was introduced.

They will try to put up GST to fuel more immigration on the monopoly board

After the industrial came the immigration revolution – wholesale uncontrolled immigration, look at Europe and the US

wookiemeister said:

wookiemeister said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Why do we?

I often hear that said, but I have never seen a single good argument for doing it.

In the Australian model taxes are used to fuel immigration. Howard’s economic miracle was to increase immigration and then introduce GST to pay for it

The british did this in the 1970s, industrial immigration could only happen after VAT (GST ) was introduced.

They will try to put up GST to fuel more immigration on the monopoly board

After the industrial came the immigration revolution – wholesale uncontrolled immigration, look at Europe and the US

The technological revolution is really the ongoing consequence of the industrial revolution

The real revolution is the immigration revolution, open borders, mass migration, nations fall. You destroy the family and social institutions, crime explodes, you attack the children and other vulnerable people , its why you see drag queens in schools and old ladies on the street ( the old ladies of the sexual revolution didn’t realise that by attacking the “patriarchy “ they were laying the seeds of their own destruction.

People are like that, they don’t see the harm happening in the now.

In other news we’ve had massive blackouts recently, you might have missed it unless you were effected.

More blackouts, bigger blackouts, more frequent blackouts on the way ( or huge power prices)

Mount isa was ok because it has its own power station

PermeateFree said:

diddly-squat said:

roughbarked said:

This.

let’s be clear.. “expectations” are not the problem here.. the issue is that the value of housing has risen much, much faster than wages have.

Young people can’t afford a house because their expectations are too high, they can’t afford a house because saving for a deposit whilst paying rent is very very difficult, and then servicing a mortgage is more than they can afford.

Expectations govern everything now and everyone takes a cut, especially State and Local Governments. Becoming accustomed to increasing wealth we have pushed every major purchase to a higher level of expectation, there is no avoiding it.

The “standard of living” of most people has been steadily increasing to the great benefit of the post war boomers. It has resulted in higher wages, more wealth and huge capital gains, which in turn has resulted in greater expectations for following generations. Most people don’t want an old car, they want the latest model that will further increase their standard of living, but these come with increased costs to meet their expectations.

With new houses, the local and state governments demand certain standards that attract increased costs, every construction phase must meet higher standards with higher costs, this is the higher standards of living at work. The point now is can we afford our higher standards of living, the boomers can because the standards when they entered the market were much lower as were the costs, but those new to the housing market are finding it increasingly harder to reach such a high level. This developing split will eventually shape our society and overall standard of living.

PermeateFree said:

PermeateFree said:

diddly-squat said:

let’s be clear.. “expectations” are not the problem here.. the issue is that the value of housing has risen much, much faster than wages have.

Young people can’t afford a house because their expectations are too high, they can’t afford a house because saving for a deposit whilst paying rent is very very difficult, and then servicing a mortgage is more than they can afford.

Expectations govern everything now and everyone takes a cut, especially State and Local Governments. Becoming accustomed to increasing wealth we have pushed every major purchase to a higher level of expectation, there is no avoiding it.

The “standard of living” of most people has been steadily increasing to the great benefit of the post war boomers. It has resulted in higher wages, more wealth and huge capital gains, which in turn has resulted in greater expectations for following generations. Most people don’t want an old car, they want the latest model that will further increase their standard of living, but these come with increased costs to meet their expectations.

With new houses, the local and state governments demand certain standards that attract increased costs, every construction phase must meet higher standards with higher costs, this is the higher standards of living at work. The point now is can we afford our higher standards of living, the boomers can because the standards when they entered the market were much lower as were the costs, but those new to the housing market are finding it increasingly harder to reach such a high level. This developing split will eventually shape our society and overall standard of living.

I’ve never had a new car. As in never-had-a-previous-owner new.

I bought my first car because i could afford it. Crashed that one. Gave its replacement to my sister. Sold the next one to help fund my wedding. We’ve only ever replaced cars when they didn’t suit our current needs e.g. didn’t need a station wagon anymore. I have a 2004 ute which i will run until it is beyond help.

I fear that i’m letting down my fellow Boomers.

The Rev Dodgson said:

party_pants said:

diddly-squat said:

Sure, but that’s not what the stage 3 tax cuts are… we need to fundamentally change the tax system in this country and the first step is stop makibg it about income tax.

Interesting. What sort of model do you have in mind?

Why do we?

I often hear that said, but I have never seen a single good argument for doing it.

We need to fundamentally change the tax system because it’s in structural deficit and the demand for government services is only increasing.

diddly-squat said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

party_pants said:

Interesting. What sort of model do you have in mind?

Why do we?

I often hear that said, but I have never seen a single good argument for doing it.

We need to fundamentally change the tax system because it’s in structural deficit and the demand for government services is only increasing.

That’s a reason we need more tax, not for fundamentally changing the system.

diddly-squat said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

party_pants said:

Interesting. What sort of model do you have in mind?

Why do we?

I often hear that said, but I have never seen a single good argument for doing it.

We need to fundamentally change the tax system because it’s in structural deficit and the demand for government services is only increasing.

What we need is a jolly good war, to cull the peasantry aged 18 – 35, and thus reduce the aforementioned demand for government services.

Fortunately, our major trading partner seems to be in the mood to oblige.

The Rev Dodgson said:

diddly-squat said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Why do we?

I often hear that said, but I have never seen a single good argument for doing it.

We need to fundamentally change the tax system because it’s in structural deficit and the demand for government services is only increasing.

That’s a reason we need more tax, not for fundamentally changing the system.

So where does the extra money come from if we are not changing the system? We just tax individuals more?

diddly-squat said:

PermeateFree said:

Post war in Australia and through to the 1980’s most houses were quite small and were affordable to most people with a job. Now a married couple want a huge house many times larger with pool and all mod cons, which are considerably more expensive and unaffordable to most people. Perhaps we should adjust our expectations as to what sort of home is suitable.

lol

A tiny handyman’s dream brick shit house 80 minutes drive from the Sydney CBD will set you back 1.5 million dollars. New homes are smaller now than in 2000, which was a generation ago.

Gidday.

Now the Fred Dagg Careers Advice Bureau has already done more than enough to secure its place in the social history of this once great nation, but I think this report is probably amongst its more lasting achievements.

In essence it outlines how to go about the business of being a real estate agent, and as things stand at the moment if you’re not a real estate agent, then you’re probably being a fool to yourself and a burden to others.

Like so many other jobs in this wonderful society of ours, the basic function of the real estate agent is to increase the price of the article without actually producing anything, and as a result it has a lot to do with communication, terminology, and calling a spade a delightfully bucolic colonial winner facing north and offering a unique opportunity to the handyman.

If you’re going to enter the real estate field you’ll need to acquire a certain physical appearance which I won’t bore you with here, but if you’ve got gold teeth and laugh-lines around your pockets, then you’re through to the semis without dropping a set.

But the main thing to master, of course, is the vernacular, and basically this works as follows:

There are three types of houses:

Glorious commanding split-level ultra-modern dream homes, which are built on cliff faces;
Private bush-clad inglenooks, which are built down holes;
and very affordable solid family houses in much sought after streets, which are old gun-emplacements with awnings.
A cottage is a caravan with the wheels taken off.

A panoramic, breathtaking, or magnificent view is an indication that the house has windows, and if the view is unique, there’s probably only one window.

I have here the perfect advertisement for a house, so we’ll go through it and I’ll point out some of the more interesting features, so here we go, mind the step.

‘Owner transferred reluctantly instructs us to sell’ means the house is for sale.

‘Genuine reason for selling’ means the house is for sale.

‘Rarely can we offer’ means the house is for sale.

‘Superbly presented delightful charmer’ doesn’t mean anything really, but it’s probably still for sale.

‘Most attractive immaculate home of character in prime dress-circle position’ means that the thing that’s for sale is a house.

‘Unusual design with interesting and solidly built stairs’ means that the stairs are in the wrong place.

‘Huge spacious generous lounge commands this well serviced executive residence’ means the rest of the house is a rabbit-warren with rooms like cupboards.

‘Magnificent well-proportioned large convenient block with exquisite garden’ means there’s no view, but one of the trees had a flower on it the day we were up there.

‘Privacy, taste, charm, space, freedom, quiet, away from it all location in much sought-after cul-de-sac situation’ means that it’s not only built down a hole, it’s built at the very far end of the hole.

‘A must for all you artists, sculptors and potters’ means that only a lunatic would consider living in it.

’2/3 bedrooms with possible in-law accommodation’ means it’s got two bedrooms and a tool shed.

‘Great buy, ring early for this one, inspection a must, priced to sell, new listing, see this one now, all offers considered, good value, be quick, inspection by appointment, view today, this one can’t last, sole agents, today’s best buy’ means the house is for sale, and if ever you see ‘investment opportunity’ turn away very quickly and have a go at the crossword.

>>>I’m not seeing a too many calls for people with large blocks to subdivide to increase supply…

Local government ordinances prevent this on ridiculous heritage grounds in a lot of cases, even when the owners wish to subdivide.

The Rev Dodgson said:

party_pants said:

diddly-squat said:

Sure, but that’s not what the stage 3 tax cuts are… we need to fundamentally change the tax system in this country and the first step is stop makibg it about income tax.

Interesting. What sort of model do you have in mind?

Why do we?

I often hear that said, but I have never seen a single good argument for doing it.

Well you know what I think… move the entire tax burden on to unearned passive incomes: dividends, rents, capital gains, inheritance. This will encourage people to be productive for longer.

dv said:

diddly-squat said:

PermeateFree said:

Post war in Australia and through to the 1980’s most houses were quite small and were affordable to most people with a job. Now a married couple want a huge house many times larger with pool and all mod cons, which are considerably more expensive and unaffordable to most people. Perhaps we should adjust our expectations as to what sort of home is suitable.

lol

A tiny handyman’s dream brick shit house 80 minutes drive from the Sydney CBD will set you back 1.5 million dollars. New homes are smaller now than in 2000, which was a generation ago.

A waste of time trying to make a more complex argument.

captain_spalding said:

PermeateFree said:

PermeateFree said:

Expectations govern everything now and everyone takes a cut, especially State and Local Governments. Becoming accustomed to increasing wealth we have pushed every major purchase to a higher level of expectation, there is no avoiding it.

The “standard of living” of most people has been steadily increasing to the great benefit of the post war boomers. It has resulted in higher wages, more wealth and huge capital gains, which in turn has resulted in greater expectations for following generations. Most people don’t want an old car, they want the latest model that will further increase their standard of living, but these come with increased costs to meet their expectations.

With new houses, the local and state governments demand certain standards that attract increased costs, every construction phase must meet higher standards with higher costs, this is the higher standards of living at work. The point now is can we afford our higher standards of living, the boomers can because the standards when they entered the market were much lower as were the costs, but those new to the housing market are finding it increasingly harder to reach such a high level. This developing split will eventually shape our society and overall standard of living.

I’ve never had a new car. As in never-had-a-previous-owner new.

I bought my first car because i could afford it. Crashed that one. Gave its replacement to my sister. Sold the next one to help fund my wedding. We’ve only ever replaced cars when they didn’t suit our current needs e.g. didn’t need a station wagon anymore. I have a 2004 ute which i will run until it is beyond help.

I fear that i’m letting down my fellow Boomers.

Didn’t realise you represented all Baby Boomers. You poor deprived sods.

Honestly, I think a lot of people of ealry X or Baby Boom generation are just in complete denial about either the nature or the extent of the problem in Sydney. Houses have got smaller. Blocks of land have got smaller. The cost to build a house has basically kept up with inflation. People have accepted that they are going to have to live nowhere near where they work. The houses are still not remotely affordable to most young working people. The house has nothing to do with it, even. A wigwam on a sixteenth acre block within half an hour of the CBD would be unaffordable.

PermeateFree said:

Post war in Australia and through to the 1980’s most houses were quite small and were affordable to most people with a job. Now a married couple want a huge house many times larger with pool and all mod cons, which are considerably more expensive and unaffordable to most people. Perhaps we should adjust our expectations as to what sort of home is suitable.

I mostly agree with this. Children want a house at least as good as the one they grew up in, but with extras. The one they grew up in took a lifetime of work, but the young people have barely even started their working career. Mum&Dad bought a cheap block they could afford way out in the swamp, and built a small house. After 20-30 years paying it off, they spent money improving it. By then their “swamp” was an inner city upmarket suburb.

The same theory still applies. Buy a block way out in the suburbs or some small town “nearby” that you CAN afford. Build a small house that you CAN afford. It will increase in value. You can’t buy the block next to mum&dads because it costs a lot more now. You can’t build a house like mum&dads now because you haven’t spent 40 years working and paying for it. The same thing will happen in 30 years with your kids.

I’m still half a million in debt and I’ll never pay it off or retire, but the cost of a house is the wages for all the tradies and the materials to build it in the current market conditions, and the cost of the land is what people will pay for it.

I’m tired.

dv said:

Honestly, I think a lot of people of ealry X or Baby Boom generation are just in complete denial about either the nature or the extent of the problem in Sydney. Houses have got smaller. Blocks of land have got smaller. The cost to build a house has basically kept up with inflation. People have accepted that they are going to have to live nowhere near where they work. The houses are still not remotely affordable to most young working people. The house has nothing to do with it, even. A wigwam on a sixteenth acre block within half an hour of the CBD would be unaffordable.

Yep… Sydney is a particular case, but Melbourne or Brisbane are not much better.. where I live in Adelaide the median house price is $1.9M… and note there is no rail infrastructure on the north east side of the city either so it’s bus or drive…

Kingy said:

PermeateFree said:

Post war in Australia and through to the 1980’s most houses were quite small and were affordable to most people with a job. Now a married couple want a huge house many times larger with pool and all mod cons, which are considerably more expensive and unaffordable to most people. Perhaps we should adjust our expectations as to what sort of home is suitable.

I mostly agree with this. Children want a house at least as good as the one they grew up in, but with extras. The one they grew up in took a lifetime of work, but the young people have barely even started their working career. Mum&Dad bought a cheap block they could afford way out in the swamp, and built a small house. After 20-30 years paying it off, they spent money improving it. By then their “swamp” was an inner city upmarket suburb.

The same theory still applies. Buy a block way out in the suburbs or some small town “nearby” that you CAN afford. Build a small house that you CAN afford. It will increase in value. You can’t buy the block next to mum&dads because it costs a lot more now. You can’t build a house like mum&dads now because you haven’t spent 40 years working and paying for it. The same thing will happen in 30 years with your kids.

I’m still half a million in debt and I’ll never pay it off or retire, but the cost of a house is the wages for all the tradies and the materials to build it in the current market conditions, and the cost of the land is what people will pay for it.

I’m tired.

You need to wait till the boomers start to die off.

dv said:

Honestly, I think a lot of people of ealry X or Baby Boom generation are just in complete denial about either the nature or the extent of the problem in Sydney. Houses have got smaller. Blocks of land have got smaller. The cost to build a house has basically kept up with inflation. People have accepted that they are going to have to live nowhere near where they work. The houses are still not remotely affordable to most young working people. The house has nothing to do with it, even. A wigwam on a sixteenth acre block within half an hour of the CBD would be unaffordable.

I really don’t know how they get by doing that.

you’re also stuffed trying to rent on a low or casualised wage.

Kingy said:

PermeateFree said:

Post war in Australia and through to the 1980’s most houses were quite small and were affordable to most people with a job. Now a married couple want a huge house many times larger with pool and all mod cons, which are considerably more expensive and unaffordable to most people. Perhaps we should adjust our expectations as to what sort of home is suitable.

I mostly agree with this. Children want a house at least as good as the one they grew up in, but with extras. The one they grew up in took a lifetime of work, but the young people have barely even started their working career. Mum&Dad bought a cheap block they could afford way out in the swamp, and built a small house. After 20-30 years paying it off, they spent money improving it. By then their “swamp” was an inner city upmarket suburb.

The same theory still applies. Buy a block way out in the suburbs or some small town “nearby” that you CAN afford. Build a small house that you CAN afford. It will increase in value. You can’t buy the block next to mum&dads because it costs a lot more now. You can’t build a house like mum&dads now because you haven’t spent 40 years working and paying for it. The same thing will happen in 30 years with your kids.

I’m still half a million in debt and I’ll never pay it off or retire, but the cost of a house is the wages for all the tradies and the materials to build it in the current market conditions, and the cost of the land is what people will pay for it.

I’m tired.

‘Children’, like most people, just want to be able to live near where they work… the idea that people just move to a small town nearby is just fucking stupid when that means a daily 3hr commute.