Date: 24/12/2023 13:34:19
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2106643
Subject: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

A sea of migrating methane discovered below the permafrost in Svalbard may eventually escape its icy prison if the permafrost continues to thaw due to climate change.


Thawing permafrost due to climate change is releasing methane, a potent greenhouse gas.

Deep beneath the permafrost that blankets a group of islands in the Arctic Ocean lurks a growing and migrating sea of methane, researchers have discovered.

The thick permafrost, or ground that remains frozen for at least two years, forms a tight seal that has so far prevented millions of cubic feet of methane from wafting out — but there’s no guarantee that the potent greenhouse gas won’t eventually escape, according to a study published Dec. 13 in the journal Frontiers in Earth Science.

“At present, the leakage from below permafrost is very low, but factors such as glacial retreat and permafrost thawing may ‘lift the lid’ on this in the future,” lead author Thomas Birchall, a geologist at the University Center in Svalbard in Norway, said in a statement.

The base of permafrost is undulating, which creates pockets between the permafrost and the underlying geology where gas from biological and non-biological sources can accumulate and become trapped. Should this permafrost seal disintegrate, it could set off a chain reaction in which the methane’s strong warming effect would thaw more permafrost and release even more gas. This vicious feedback loop would further accelerate warming, melting and methane emissions, the researchers warned in the study.

Permafrost is widespread on Svalbard, a Norwegian archipelago located deep inside the Arctic Circle and just 500 miles (800 kilometers) from the North Pole. Missions that involve drilling into the frozen soil in search of fossil fuels often hit pockets of natural gas by accident, but the extent of these reserves was unknown, according to the study.


Low tide on Spitsbergen, the largest and only permanently populated island of the Svalbard archipelago.

Birchall and his colleagues used historical data from commercial and scientific boreholes to map the permafrost throughout Svalbard and pinpoint these stores of natural gas. The researchers found deposits rich in methane are much more common than thought on the islands. Given that the archipelago has a similar geological and glacial history to the rest of the Arctic region, the same could be true of other permafrost-covered locations near the North Pole, the statement said.

The permafrost seal on Svalbard isn’t uniform, the study found. Coastal areas had a thinner crust of frozen soil due to the warmth brought by ocean currents, whereas permafrost in the lowlands was thick and saturated with ice, meaning it has “extremely good sealing properties” and is able to “self-heal,” the researchers wrote in the study. In the highlands, the permafrost was flakier and more permeable due to dry conditions.

But permafrost that is leak-proof now might not stay that way. Svalbard is one of the fastest warming places on the planet, according to the study, and its “active” layer of permafrost — the upper few feet that thaw and refreeze seasonally — grows deeper as global temperatures rise.

Estimating how much methane is trapped below the permafrost is tricky, because it is difficult to access and there are only a few dozen boreholes on which to draw conclusions. Based on one location where the flow of gas was measured, however, the researchers estimate it could be in the order of several million cubic feet.

“With permafrost thawing in the Arctic, there is a risk that the impacts of releasing methane trapped beneath permafrost will lead to positive climatic feedback effects,” they wrote in the study.

https://www.livescience.com/planet-earth/arctic/sea-of-methane-sealed-beneath-arctic-permafrost-could-trigger-climate-feedback-loop-if-it-escapes

Reply Quote

Date: 24/12/2023 18:14:33
From: Ogmog
ID: 2106787
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

PermeateFree said:


A sea of migrating methane discovered below the permafrost in Svalbard may eventually escape its icy prison if the permafrost continues to thaw due to climate change.


Thawing permafrost due to climate change is releasing methane, a potent greenhouse gas.

>snip<
Estimating how much methane is trapped below the permafrost is tricky, because it is difficult to access and there are only a few dozen boreholes on which to draw conclusions. Based on one location where the flow of gas was measured, however, the researchers estimate it could be in the order of several million cubic feet.

“With permafrost thawing in the Arctic, there is a risk that the impacts of releasing methane trapped beneath permafrost will lead to positive climatic feedback effects,” they wrote in the study.
>snip<
https://www.livescience.com/planet-earth/arctic/sea-of-methane-sealed-beneath-arctic-permafrost-could-trigger-climate-feedback-loop-if-it-escapes

been warning people about that for yonks

I’m finally beyond caring at this point

Reply Quote

Date: 24/12/2023 19:42:29
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2106817
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

Ogmog said:


PermeateFree said:

A sea of migrating methane discovered below the permafrost in Svalbard may eventually escape its icy prison if the permafrost continues to thaw due to climate change.


Thawing permafrost due to climate change is releasing methane, a potent greenhouse gas.

>snip<
Estimating how much methane is trapped below the permafrost is tricky, because it is difficult to access and there are only a few dozen boreholes on which to draw conclusions. Based on one location where the flow of gas was measured, however, the researchers estimate it could be in the order of several million cubic feet.

“With permafrost thawing in the Arctic, there is a risk that the impacts of releasing methane trapped beneath permafrost will lead to positive climatic feedback effects,” they wrote in the study.
>snip<
https://www.livescience.com/planet-earth/arctic/sea-of-methane-sealed-beneath-arctic-permafrost-could-trigger-climate-feedback-loop-if-it-escapes

been warning people about that for yonks

I’m finally beyond caring at this point

It is a little different, in as much as here you also have methane pockets below the permafrost as against the methane being formed by the additional heat created by the melting permafrost and the decay of ancient vegetation. This means there is probably a lot more methane under the permafrost ready to escape than previously thought.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/12/2023 22:42:11
From: Kingy
ID: 2106882
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

PermeateFree said:


Ogmog said:

PermeateFree said:

A sea of migrating methane discovered below the permafrost in Svalbard may eventually escape its icy prison if the permafrost continues to thaw due to climate change.


Thawing permafrost due to climate change is releasing methane, a potent greenhouse gas.

>snip<
Estimating how much methane is trapped below the permafrost is tricky, because it is difficult to access and there are only a few dozen boreholes on which to draw conclusions. Based on one location where the flow of gas was measured, however, the researchers estimate it could be in the order of several million cubic feet.

“With permafrost thawing in the Arctic, there is a risk that the impacts of releasing methane trapped beneath permafrost will lead to positive climatic feedback effects,” they wrote in the study.
>snip<
https://www.livescience.com/planet-earth/arctic/sea-of-methane-sealed-beneath-arctic-permafrost-could-trigger-climate-feedback-loop-if-it-escapes

been warning people about that for yonks

I’m finally beyond caring at this point

It is a little different, in as much as here you also have methane pockets below the permafrost as against the methane being formed by the additional heat created by the melting permafrost and the decay of ancient vegetation. This means there is probably a lot more methane under the permafrost ready to escape than previously thought.

I read about the “Clathrate Gun” many years ago.I think the title is a bit overly dramatic, but the conclusions aren’t great. There already are methane bubbles coming up from the sea floor around the arctic due to the warming.

Reply Quote

Date: 24/12/2023 23:54:45
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2106896
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

Kingy said:


PermeateFree said:

Ogmog said:

been warning people about that for yonks

I’m finally beyond caring at this point

It is a little different, in as much as here you also have methane pockets below the permafrost as against the methane being formed by the additional heat created by the melting permafrost and the decay of ancient vegetation. This means there is probably a lot more methane under the permafrost ready to escape than previously thought.

I read about the “Clathrate Gun” many years ago.I think the title is a bit overly dramatic, but the conclusions aren’t great. There already are methane bubbles coming up from the sea floor around the arctic due to the warming.

There are several ways for methane to form insitu via geological or biological methods. The way it forms in this article and its extent has not been appreciated previously, although methane pollution from permafrost other methods is well known and has been for many years.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/12/2023 00:36:00
From: Ogmog
ID: 2106900
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

Kingy said:


PermeateFree said:

Ogmog said:

been warning people about that for yonks

I’m finally beyond caring at this point

It is a little different, in as much as here you also have methane pockets below the permafrost as against the methane being formed by the additional heat created by the melting permafrost and the decay of ancient vegetation. This means there is probably a lot more methane under the permafrost ready to escape than previously thought.

I read about the “Clathrate Gun” many years ago.I think the title is a bit overly dramatic, but the conclusions aren’t great. There already are methane bubbles coming up from the sea floor around the arctic due to the warming.

it’s worseR than that:
there is frozen methane hydrate
surrounding EVERY Continent on Earth
the product of organic matter flushed into the seaS
previously sequestered in a frozen state …also gassing-off.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/12/2023 00:43:21
From: Ogmog
ID: 2106901
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

Methane Hydrates and Contemporary Climate Change

Reply Quote

Date: 25/12/2023 00:53:17
From: Ogmog
ID: 2106902
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

Ogmog said:


Methane Hydrates and Contemporary Climate Change

oh, yeah
and thar’s MONEY To Be Made!!!

Reply Quote

Date: 25/12/2023 13:43:09
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 2106971
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

Ogmog said:


PermeateFree said:

A sea of migrating methane discovered below the permafrost in Svalbard may eventually escape its icy prison if the permafrost continues to thaw due to climate change.


Thawing permafrost due to climate change is releasing methane, a potent greenhouse gas.

>snip<
Estimating how much methane is trapped below the permafrost is tricky, because it is difficult to access and there are only a few dozen boreholes on which to draw conclusions. Based on one location where the flow of gas was measured, however, the researchers estimate it could be in the order of several million cubic feet.

“With permafrost thawing in the Arctic, there is a risk that the impacts of releasing methane trapped beneath permafrost will lead to positive climatic feedback effects,” they wrote in the study.
>snip<
https://www.livescience.com/planet-earth/arctic/sea-of-methane-sealed-beneath-arctic-permafrost-could-trigger-climate-feedback-loop-if-it-escapes

been warning people about that for yonks

I’m finally beyond caring at this point

Reply Quote

Date: 25/12/2023 15:17:26
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2106982
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

mollwollfumble said:


Ogmog said:

PermeateFree said:

A sea of migrating methane discovered below the permafrost in Svalbard may eventually escape its icy prison if the permafrost continues to thaw due to climate change.


Thawing permafrost due to climate change is releasing methane, a potent greenhouse gas.

>snip<
Estimating how much methane is trapped below the permafrost is tricky, because it is difficult to access and there are only a few dozen boreholes on which to draw conclusions. Based on one location where the flow of gas was measured, however, the researchers estimate it could be in the order of several million cubic feet.

“With permafrost thawing in the Arctic, there is a risk that the impacts of releasing methane trapped beneath permafrost will lead to positive climatic feedback effects,” they wrote in the study.
>snip<
https://www.livescience.com/planet-earth/arctic/sea-of-methane-sealed-beneath-arctic-permafrost-could-trigger-climate-feedback-loop-if-it-escapes

been warning people about that for yonks

I’m finally beyond caring at this point

This time it is actually science based, but don’t worry moll you will be safe in your little bubble.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/12/2023 16:17:39
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 2106986
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

> science based

The release of methane from melting permafrost was news back in the year 1988. This is hardly news now.

Melting permafrost is a major positive from climate change. First peat bogs that sequester carbon. Then boreal forests that both sequester carbon and benefit wildlife.

The release of methane into the atmosphere is only a temporary thing anyway. Methane doesn’t stay in the atmosphere forever. It breaks down as it is incorporated into living things, resulting in a minor increase on the planet’s biosphere.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/12/2023 16:27:33
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 2106990
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

> science based

The release of methane from melting permafrost was news back in the year 1988. This is hardly news now.

Melting permafrost is a major positive from climate change. First peat bogs that sequester carbon. Then boreal forests that both sequester carbon and benefit wildlife.

The release of methane into the atmosphere is only a temporary thing anyway. Methane doesn’t stay in the atmosphere forever. It breaks down as it is incorporated into living things, resulting in a minor increase on the planet’s biosphere.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/12/2023 16:32:21
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2106994
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

mollwollfumble said:


> science based

The release of methane from melting permafrost was news back in the year 1988. This is hardly news now.

Melting permafrost is a major positive from climate change. First peat bogs that sequester carbon. Then boreal forests that both sequester carbon and benefit wildlife.

The release of methane into the atmosphere is only a temporary thing anyway. Methane doesn’t stay in the atmosphere forever. It breaks down as it is incorporated into living things, resulting in a minor increase on the planet’s biosphere.

Why don’t you read what is presented. The article was not intended to introduce something new, but of a new type of process that is likely to increase the release of methane into the environment, plus highly likely to speed up the process. Why are you so dum and need the most basic revelations explained to you, only to have them totally ignored. You seem to live in a world of 2-3 decades ago and refuse to update your understanding with new information. We are living in a fast changing world, at least try to keep up.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/12/2023 16:38:51
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2106995
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

mollwollfumble said:


> science based

The release of methane from melting permafrost was news back in the year 1988. This is hardly news now.

Melting permafrost is a major positive from climate change. First peat bogs that sequester carbon. Then boreal forests that both sequester carbon and benefit wildlife.

The release of methane into the atmosphere is only a temporary thing anyway. Methane doesn’t stay in the atmosphere forever. It breaks down as it is incorporated into living things, resulting in a minor increase on the planet’s biosphere.

There you go again. Methane is up to eighty (80) times more effective as a greenhouse gas and will last for around 20 years. But if you are producing vastly more methane than ever before its effect is going to be considerable and very long lasting, because it is going to be producing for years and years. As far as rapid temperature increases are concerned, methane is a killer.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/12/2023 16:42:49
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2106997
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

PermeateFree said:


mollwollfumble said:

> science based

The release of methane from melting permafrost was news back in the year 1988. This is hardly news now.

Melting permafrost is a major positive from climate change. First peat bogs that sequester carbon. Then boreal forests that both sequester carbon and benefit wildlife.

The release of methane into the atmosphere is only a temporary thing anyway. Methane doesn’t stay in the atmosphere forever. It breaks down as it is incorporated into living things, resulting in a minor increase on the planet’s biosphere.

There you go again. Methane is up to eighty (80) times more effective as a greenhouse gas and will last for around 20 years. But if you are producing vastly more methane than ever before its effect is going to be considerable and very long lasting, because it is going to be producing for years and years. As far as rapid temperature increases are concerned, methane is a killer.

(80 times more effective as a greenhouse gas than co2)

Reply Quote

Date: 25/12/2023 16:43:34
From: roughbarked
ID: 2106998
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

PermeateFree said:


mollwollfumble said:

> science based

The release of methane from melting permafrost was news back in the year 1988. This is hardly news now.

Melting permafrost is a major positive from climate change. First peat bogs that sequester carbon. Then boreal forests that both sequester carbon and benefit wildlife.

The release of methane into the atmosphere is only a temporary thing anyway. Methane doesn’t stay in the atmosphere forever. It breaks down as it is incorporated into living things, resulting in a minor increase on the planet’s biosphere.

There you go again. Methane is up to eighty (80) times more effective as a greenhouse gas and will last for around 20 years. But if you are producing vastly more methane than ever before its effect is going to be considerable and very long lasting, because it is going to be producing for years and years. As far as rapid temperature increases are concerned, methane is a killer.

Yes. This is the story. It will accelerate the warming and thus release more methane.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/12/2023 17:36:53
From: Ogmog
ID: 2107008
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

roughbarked said:


PermeateFree said:

mollwollfumble said:

> science based

The release of methane from melting permafrost was news back in the year 1988. This is hardly news now.

Melting permafrost is a major positive from climate change. First peat bogs that sequester carbon. Then boreal forests that both sequester carbon and benefit wildlife.

The release of methane into the atmosphere is only a temporary thing anyway. Methane doesn’t stay in the atmosphere forever. It breaks down as it is incorporated into living things, resulting in a minor increase on the planet’s biosphere.

There you go again. Methane is up to eighty (80) times more effective as a greenhouse gas and will last for around 20 years. But if you are producing vastly more methane than ever before its effect is going to be considerable and very long lasting, because it is going to be producing for years and years. As far as rapid temperature increases are concerned, methane is a killer.

Yes. This is the story. It will accelerate the warming and thus release more methane.

…triggering a climate feedback loop

Reply Quote

Date: 25/12/2023 17:46:20
From: Ogmog
ID: 2107009
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

Ogmog said:


roughbarked said:

PermeateFree said:

There you go again. Methane is up to eighty (80) times more effective as a greenhouse gas and will last for around 20 years. But if you are producing vastly more methane than ever before its effect is going to be considerable and very long lasting, because it is going to be producing for years and years. As far as rapid temperature increases are concerned, methane is a killer.

Yes. This is the story. It will accelerate the warming and thus release more methane.

…triggering a climate feedback loop

Climate feedback loops are a process in which an external factor, such as the release of heat-trapping greenhouse gases or the injection of aerosols into the atmosphere, causes a change in one part of the climate system that feeds back and amplifies itself

Reply Quote

Date: 25/12/2023 23:02:27
From: mollwollfumble
ID: 2107060
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

> Methane is up to eighty (80) times more effective as a greenhouse gas

But since methane is in the atmosphere in quantities much smaller than carbon dioxide, the contribution of methane to global warming is only about a fifth as much as carbon dioxide (from the second IPCC science report, I think).

Not negligible, but not a big influence.

The increased growth of Boreal forests has already been observed in satellite (MODIS) observations. More forest, more wildlife, better environment. It’s one of the more important positives to come from increased atmospheric carbon dioxide.

Reply Quote

Date: 25/12/2023 23:55:01
From: PermeateFree
ID: 2107069
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

mollwollfumble said:


> Methane is up to eighty (80) times more effective as a greenhouse gas

But since methane is in the atmosphere in quantities much smaller than carbon dioxide, the contribution of methane to global warming is only about a fifth as much as carbon dioxide (from the second IPCC science report, I think).

Not negligible, but not a big influence.

The increased growth of Boreal forests has already been observed in satellite (MODIS) observations. More forest, more wildlife, better environment. It’s one of the more important positives to come from increased atmospheric carbon dioxide.

For God’s sake man, can you not appreciate that the article is about rapidly increasing amounts of methane that makes it a MAJOR greenhouse gas, even greater than what has already been gleaned.

The Second IPCC Assessment Report was in 1995; scientific research concerning Global Warming has increased several fold over the past thirty years. What is the matter with you? Do you think scientific research just stops? Do you think our Global Warming knowledge was fulfilled thirty years ago? Stop living in the past and get up to date!!!

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 06:12:11
From: roughbarked
ID: 2107076
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

PermeateFree said:


mollwollfumble said:

> Methane is up to eighty (80) times more effective as a greenhouse gas

But since methane is in the atmosphere in quantities much smaller than carbon dioxide, the contribution of methane to global warming is only about a fifth as much as carbon dioxide (from the second IPCC science report, I think).

Not negligible, but not a big influence.

The increased growth of Boreal forests has already been observed in satellite (MODIS) observations. More forest, more wildlife, better environment. It’s one of the more important positives to come from increased atmospheric carbon dioxide.

For God’s sake man, can you not appreciate that the article is about rapidly increasing amounts of methane that makes it a MAJOR greenhouse gas, even greater than what has already been gleaned.

The Second IPCC Assessment Report was in 1995; scientific research concerning Global Warming has increased several fold over the past thirty years. What is the matter with you? Do you think scientific research just stops? Do you think our Global Warming knowledge was fulfilled thirty years ago? Stop living in the past and get up to date!!!

I’m wondering also about the validity of an oncrease in boreal forest?

In Australia we have cleared more trees in the past 20 years than we had cleared in the previous 200.
Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 06:30:46
From: Ogmog
ID: 2107078
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

PermeateFree said:


mollwollfumble said:

> Methane is up to eighty (80) times more effective as a greenhouse gas

But since methane is in the atmosphere in quantities much smaller than carbon dioxide, the contribution of methane to global warming is only about a fifth as much as carbon dioxide (from the second IPCC science report, I think).

Not negligible, but not a big influence.

The increased growth of Boreal forests has already been observed in satellite (MODIS) observations. More forest, more wildlife, better environment. It’s one of the more important positives to come from increased atmospheric carbon dioxide.

For God’s sake man, can you not appreciate that the article is about rapidly increasing amounts of methane that makes it a MAJOR greenhouse gas, even greater than what has already been gleaned.

The Second IPCC Assessment Report was in 1995; scientific research concerning Global Warming has increased several fold over the past thirty years. What is the matter with you? Do you think scientific research just stops? Do you think our Global Warming knowledge was fulfilled thirty years ago? Stop living in the past and get up to date!!!

Seriously;
that old info about “increased farm & forest production” was initially put out to put “A POSITIVE SPIN On It”
to calm public concern, then taken up by “Climate Deniers” in the attempt to squelch further inquiry…
After that it was utilized by BIG ENERGY Corporations to spread said SPIN on FRACKING,
then USED to Encourage NATURAL GAS PRODUCTION looking to “CASH IN” on it.
…and finally AMPLIFIED by The Climate Deniers to SILENCE the Scientists.
and NOWTHEY”‘re Coming for Our PUBLIC LANDS Worldwide.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 06:40:28
From: roughbarked
ID: 2107079
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

Ogmog said:


PermeateFree said:

mollwollfumble said:

> Methane is up to eighty (80) times more effective as a greenhouse gas

But since methane is in the atmosphere in quantities much smaller than carbon dioxide, the contribution of methane to global warming is only about a fifth as much as carbon dioxide (from the second IPCC science report, I think).

Not negligible, but not a big influence.

The increased growth of Boreal forests has already been observed in satellite (MODIS) observations. More forest, more wildlife, better environment. It’s one of the more important positives to come from increased atmospheric carbon dioxide.

For God’s sake man, can you not appreciate that the article is about rapidly increasing amounts of methane that makes it a MAJOR greenhouse gas, even greater than what has already been gleaned.

The Second IPCC Assessment Report was in 1995; scientific research concerning Global Warming has increased several fold over the past thirty years. What is the matter with you? Do you think scientific research just stops? Do you think our Global Warming knowledge was fulfilled thirty years ago? Stop living in the past and get up to date!!!

Seriously;
that old info about “increased farm & forest production” was initially put out to put “A POSITIVE SPIN On It”
to calm public concern, then taken up by “Climate Deniers” in the attempt to squelch further inquiry…
After that it was utilized by BIG ENERGY Corporations to spread said SPIN on FRACKING,
then USED to Encourage NATURAL GAS PRODUCTION looking to “CASH IN” on it.
…and finally AMPLIFIED by The Climate Deniers to SILENCE the Scientists.
and NOWTHEY”‘re Coming for Our PUBLIC LANDS Worldwide.

There has to come the point.
or it will come to the point.
That we will all have to realise that the profit motive and even money itself, will require to be put aside in order to regain the realistic profit of a benign climate earth again or all will be lost in the quest for monetary profit.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 07:57:41
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 2107091
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

roughbarked said:


Ogmog said:

PermeateFree said:

For God’s sake man, can you not appreciate that the article is about rapidly increasing amounts of methane that makes it a MAJOR greenhouse gas, even greater than what has already been gleaned.

The Second IPCC Assessment Report was in 1995; scientific research concerning Global Warming has increased several fold over the past thirty years. What is the matter with you? Do you think scientific research just stops? Do you think our Global Warming knowledge was fulfilled thirty years ago? Stop living in the past and get up to date!!!

Seriously;
that old info about “increased farm & forest production” was initially put out to put “A POSITIVE SPIN On It”
to calm public concern, then taken up by “Climate Deniers” in the attempt to squelch further inquiry…
After that it was utilized by BIG ENERGY Corporations to spread said SPIN on FRACKING,
then USED to Encourage NATURAL GAS PRODUCTION looking to “CASH IN” on it.
…and finally AMPLIFIED by The Climate Deniers to SILENCE the Scientists.
and NOWTHEY”‘re Coming for Our PUBLIC LANDS Worldwide.

There has to come the point.
or it will come to the point.
That we will all have to realise that the profit motive and even money itself, will require to be put aside in order to regain the realistic profit of a benign climate earth again or all will be lost in the quest for monetary profit.

On the contrary, the only way for a transition to less than nett zero GHG emissions to work is for the future costs to be included in the price of everything, so that everybody has an incentive to minimise the emissions associated with their activities.

Or all democracies could move to a centralised non-democratic system maybe. I suppose that could work.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 08:12:20
From: roughbarked
ID: 2107093
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

The Rev Dodgson said:


roughbarked said:

Ogmog said:

Seriously;
that old info about “increased farm & forest production” was initially put out to put “A POSITIVE SPIN On It”
to calm public concern, then taken up by “Climate Deniers” in the attempt to squelch further inquiry…
After that it was utilized by BIG ENERGY Corporations to spread said SPIN on FRACKING,
then USED to Encourage NATURAL GAS PRODUCTION looking to “CASH IN” on it.
…and finally AMPLIFIED by The Climate Deniers to SILENCE the Scientists.
and NOWTHEY”‘re Coming for Our PUBLIC LANDS Worldwide.

There has to come the point.
or it will come to the point.
That we will all have to realise that the profit motive and even money itself, will require to be put aside in order to regain the realistic profit of a benign climate earth again or all will be lost in the quest for monetary profit.

On the contrary, the only way for a transition to less than nett zero GHG emissions to work is for the future costs to be included in the price of everything, so that everybody has an incentive to minimise the emissions associated with their activities.

Or all democracies could move to a centralised non-democratic system maybe. I suppose that could work.

Or both.

Reply Quote

Date: 26/12/2023 13:06:42
From: Ogmog
ID: 2107126
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

roughbarked said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

There has to come the point.
or it will come to the point.
That we will all have to realise that the profit motive and even money itself, will require to be put aside in order to regain the realistic profit of a benign climate earth again or all will be lost in the quest for monetary profit.

On the contrary, the only way for a transition to less than nett zero GHG emissions to work is for the future costs to be included in the price of everything, so that everybody has an incentive to minimise the emissions associated with their activities.

Or all democracies could move to a centralised non-democratic system maybe. I suppose that could work.

Or both.

Reply Quote

Date: 27/12/2023 08:15:59
From: Ogmog
ID: 2107353
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

you seem to have taken my point;

what’s the bleeding point of owning all the gold
if you destroy everything important just to get it?

…or as Roger Waters put it

ashes & diamonds / foes & friends, we were all equal in the end

“Two Suns In The Sunset”

In my rear-view mirror the sun is going down
Sinking behind bridges in the road
I think of all the good things
That we have left undone
And I suffer premonitions
Confirm suspicions
Of the holocaust to come

The rusty wire
That holds the cork
That keeps the anger in
Gives way
And suddenly it’s day again

The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset
Could be the human race is run

Like the moment when the brakes lock
And you slide towards the big truck
Oh, no
You stretch the frozen moments with your fear

And you’ll never hear their voices
Daddy, daddy,
And you’ll never see their faces
You have no recourse to the law anymore

And as the windshield melts
And my tears evaporate
Leaving only charcoal to defend
Finally I understand
The feelings of the few
Ashes and diamonds
Foe and friend
We were all equal in the end

“…The head of the US…”
…and now the weather. Tomorrow will be cloudy with scattered showers spreading from the east … with an expected high of 4000 degrees Celsius.”

Reply Quote

Date: 27/12/2023 08:57:57
From: roughbarked
ID: 2107356
Subject: re: Sea of methane sealed beneath Arctic permafrost could trigger climate feedback loop if it escapes

Ogmog said:


you seem to have taken my point;

what’s the bleeding point of owning all the gold
if you destroy everything important just to get it?

…or as Roger Waters put it

ashes & diamonds / foes & friends, we were all equal in the end

“Two Suns In The Sunset”

In my rear-view mirror the sun is going down
Sinking behind bridges in the road
I think of all the good things
That we have left undone
And I suffer premonitions
Confirm suspicions
Of the holocaust to come

The rusty wire
That holds the cork
That keeps the anger in
Gives way
And suddenly it’s day again

The sun is in the east
Even though the day is done
Two suns in the sunset
Could be the human race is run

Like the moment when the brakes lock
And you slide towards the big truck
Oh, no
You stretch the frozen moments with your fear

And you’ll never hear their voices
Daddy, daddy,
And you’ll never see their faces
You have no recourse to the law anymore

And as the windshield melts
And my tears evaporate
Leaving only charcoal to defend
Finally I understand
The feelings of the few
Ashes and diamonds
Foe and friend
We were all equal in the end

“…The head of the US…”
…and now the weather. Tomorrow will be cloudy with scattered showers spreading from the east … with an expected high of 4000 degrees Celsius.”

Gosh eh. 4,000 degrees? Even my oxy-acetylene flame isn’t that hot.

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