Is it true that knowledge is easier to validate than belief ?

Tau.Neutrino said:

Is it true that knowledge is easier to validate than belief ?

Yes. I think so.

party_pants said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Is it true that knowledge is easier to validate than belief ?

Yes. I think so.

I have knowledge that the kurdaitcha man and santa and the square root of -1 is a belief.

Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Is it true that knowledge is easier to validate than belief ?

Yes. I think so.

I have knowledge that the kurdaitcha man and santa and the square root of -1 is a belief.

I’m talking about my knowledge and beliefs, not yours.

Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Is it true that knowledge is easier to validate than belief ?

Yes. I think so.

I have knowledge that the kurdaitcha man and santa and the square root of -1 is a belief.

Square root of -1 is like God: Imaginary.

party_pants said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Is it true that knowledge is easier to validate than belief ?

Yes. I think so.

but do you believe so

Tau.Neutrino said:

Is it true that knowledge is easier to validate than belief ?

They are not two separate things, so no.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

Yes. I think so.

I have knowledge that the kurdaitcha man and santa and the square root of -1 is a belief.

Square root of -1 is like God: Imaginary.

Yes, it’s fraud visited on gullible engineering students.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Is it true that knowledge is easier to validate than belief ?

They are not two separate things, so no.

¿

10 steps on a ladder is easier to climb than 20 steps on the same ladder, but they are not two separate things

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Is it true that knowledge is easier to validate than belief ?

They are not two separate things, so no.

¿

10 steps on a ladder is easier to climb than 20 steps on the same ladder, but they are not two separate things

Sure they are. 20 steps = 10 steps + another 10 steps.

But “knowledge” and “belief” are so inter-twined that I don’t think it makes sense to treat them as separate things.

Knowledge is the collection of statements that we believe to be true, beyond reasonable doubt.

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

They are not two separate things, so no.

¿

10 steps on a ladder is easier to climb than 20 steps on the same ladder, but they are not two separate things

Sure they are. 20 steps = 10 steps + another 10 steps.

But “knowledge” and “belief” are so inter-twined that I don’t think it makes sense to treat them as separate things.

Knowledge is the collection of statements that we believe to be true, beyond reasonable doubt.

someone reckoned it was justified true beliefs but then others disagreed

we would argue that knowledge is information that one can use as a model of external reality (whatever that is) which we agree is not completely separate from belief which is information that one holds to be true whether it can actually model external reality or otherwise

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

¿

10 steps on a ladder is easier to climb than 20 steps on the same ladder, but they are not two separate things

Sure they are. 20 steps = 10 steps + another 10 steps.

But “knowledge” and “belief” are so inter-twined that I don’t think it makes sense to treat them as separate things.

Knowledge is the collection of statements that we believe to be true, beyond reasonable doubt.

someone reckoned it was justified true beliefs but then others disagreed

we would argue that knowledge is information that one can use as a model of external reality (whatever that is) which we agree is not completely separate from belief which is information that one holds to be true whether it can actually model external reality or otherwise

I shall sleep on that.

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

They are not two separate things, so no.

¿

10 steps on a ladder is easier to climb than 20 steps on the same ladder, but they are not two separate things

Sure they are. 20 steps = 10 steps + another 10 steps.

But “knowledge” and “belief” are so inter-twined that I don’t think it makes sense to treat them as separate things.

Knowledge is the collection of statements that we believe to be true, beyond reasonable doubt.

I have to disagree with that. I think they are best treated as separate things.

depending how used, but belief maybe is more an orientation toward a proposition, a commitment of brian

of course it’s possible to have notions that are secret belief, or equivalent of, unknown even to the holder, even a deniable notion, or notion denied, that sort of thing, doesn’t need be an abstracted belief, the structure of it maybe remains unknown, or variously distorted

and really there’s a large territory of belief about belief, plenty of opportunity to be wrong, even convincingly wrong, a lot of people can have shared wrongness too, which by force of numbers can make it true in a sense, a sort of hoodoo, and an absence of useful belief about belief can also be highly distorting, like an absence of thinking about thinking

transition said:

depending how used, but belief maybe is more an orientation toward a proposition, a commitment of brian

of course it’s possible to have notions that are secret belief, or equivalent of, unknown even to the holder, even a deniable notion, or notion denied, that sort of thing, doesn’t need be an abstracted belief, the structure of it maybe remains unknown, or variously distorted

and really there’s a large territory of belief about belief, plenty of opportunity to be wrong, even convincingly wrong, a lot of people can have shared wrongness too, which by force of numbers can make it true in a sense, a sort of hoodoo, and an absence of useful belief about belief can also be highly distorting, like an absence of thinking about thinking

for you, master neutrino
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_attitude

transition said:

transition said:

depending how used, but belief maybe is more an orientation toward a proposition, a commitment of brian

of course it’s possible to have notions that are secret belief, or equivalent of, unknown even to the holder, even a deniable notion, or notion denied, that sort of thing, doesn’t need be an abstracted belief, the structure of it maybe remains unknown, or variously distorted

and really there’s a large territory of belief about belief, plenty of opportunity to be wrong, even convincingly wrong, a lot of people can have shared wrongness too, which by force of numbers can make it true in a sense, a sort of hoodoo, and an absence of useful belief about belief can also be highly distorting, like an absence of thinking about thinking

for you, master neutrino
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_attitude

possibly of interest also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direction_of_fit

models that impair

transition said:

depending how used, but belief maybe is more an orientation toward a proposition, a commitment of brian

of course it’s possible to have notions that are secret belief, or equivalent of, unknown even to the holder, even a deniable notion, or notion denied, that sort of thing, doesn’t need be an abstracted belief, the structure of it maybe remains unknown, or variously distorted

and really there’s a large territory of belief about belief, plenty of opportunity to be wrong, even convincingly wrong, a lot of people can have shared wrongness too, which by force of numbers can make it true in a sense, a sort of hoodoo, and an absence of useful belief about belief can also be highly distorting, like an absence of thinking about thinking

Such eloquence. ;)

such inconcision

SCIENCE said:

models that impair

What about them?

But Knowledge to their eyes her ample page
Rich with the spoils of time did ne’er unroll;
Chill Penury repress’d their noble rage,
And froze the genial current of the soul

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

models that impair

What about them?

they are models and they impair

though we mention it in response to a proliferation of halfbaked ideas that are labelled and hence gain authority and legitimacy far beyond what they deserve