We have a federal election – due to be held in the first five months of this year – to look forward to.

Won’t that be fun!

High interest rates and cost of living pressures are expected to be the top concerns for both major parties and voters, the battleground itself will also look different, with changes to the number of seats and electoral boundaries.

In this election, Western Australia has gained a seat – Bullwinkel, named after the young Australian Army nurse Vivian Bullwinkel, who was the sole survivor of a World War Two massacre by the Japanese.

Two seats have been abolished: Higgins, whch is a Labor-held seat in inner-Melbourne, and North Sydney, held by the independent candidate, Kylea Tink.

The changes have brought the size of the House of Representatives down to 150, from the previous 151.

This federal election will also be the first where Baby Boomers will be outnumbered by Gen Z and Millennial voters.

Antony Green on the seats that could decide the 2025 election:
https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/abc-news-daily/antony-green-on-the-seats-that-could-decide-the-2025-election/104777210
Link

The era of the Baby Boomers as the dominant voting force in Federal politics is ending:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-11-25/election-2025-gen-z-millennial-outnumber-baby-boomers/104641230
Link

AussieDJ said:

We have a federal election – due to be held in the first five months of this year – to look forward to.

Won’t that be fun!

High interest rates and cost of living pressures are expected to be the top concerns for both major parties and voters, the battleground itself will also look different, with changes to the number of seats and electoral boundaries.

In this election, Western Australia has gained a seat – Bullwinkel, named after the young Australian Army nurse Vivian Bullwinkel, who was the sole survivor of a World War Two massacre by the Japanese.

Two seats have been abolished: Higgins, whch is a Labor-held seat in inner-Melbourne, and North Sydney, held by the independent candidate, Kylea Tink.

The changes have brought the size of the House of Representatives down to 150, from the previous 151.

This federal election will also be the first where Baby Boomers will be outnumbered by Gen Z and Millennial voters.

Antony Green on the seats that could decide the 2025 election:
https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/abc-news-daily/antony-green-on-the-seats-that-could-decide-the-2025-election/104777210
Link

The era of the Baby Boomers as the dominant voting force in Federal politics is ending:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-11-25/election-2025-gen-z-millennial-outnumber-baby-boomers/104641230
Link

Boomers was also the name given by tha US to Soviet nuclear subs, I think.

There’s a WA election in two months. Polling is at 56-44 to ALP so it’s hard to see them losing it but certainly they aren’t going to achieve the heights they reached in 2021 where they ended with 70-30 in the 2pp.

Currently the Libs have 3 seats in the lower house and the Nats also have 3. In WA they do not operate as a Coalition.

Peak Warming Man said:

AussieDJ said:

We have a federal election – due to be held in the first five months of this year – to look forward to.

Won’t that be fun!

High interest rates and cost of living pressures are expected to be the top concerns for both major parties and voters, the battleground itself will also look different, with changes to the number of seats and electoral boundaries.

In this election, Western Australia has gained a seat – Bullwinkel, named after the young Australian Army nurse Vivian Bullwinkel, who was the sole survivor of a World War Two massacre by the Japanese.

Two seats have been abolished: Higgins, whch is a Labor-held seat in inner-Melbourne, and North Sydney, held by the independent candidate, Kylea Tink.

The changes have brought the size of the House of Representatives down to 150, from the previous 151.

This federal election will also be the first where Baby Boomers will be outnumbered by Gen Z and Millennial voters.

Antony Green on the seats that could decide the 2025 election:
https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/abc-news-daily/antony-green-on-the-seats-that-could-decide-the-2025-election/104777210
Link

The era of the Baby Boomers as the dominant voting force in Federal politics is ending:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-11-25/election-2025-gen-z-millennial-outnumber-baby-boomers/104641230
Link

Boomers was also the name given by tha US to Soviet nuclear subs, I think.

And white Christmas kangaroos apparently.

Although the old fashioned timber guide posts were also know as “white kangaroos”, too. And the boomer name was never applied, as far as I know.

dv said:

There’s a WA election in two months. Polling is at 56-44 to ALP so it’s hard to see them losing it but certainly they aren’t going to achieve the heights they reached in 2021 where they ended with 70-30 in the 2pp.

Currently the Libs have 3 seats in the lower house and the Nats also have 3. In WA they do not operate as a Coalition.

Be interesting to see what happens in the LC, first time it will be run on a one-vote one-value system.

Peak Warming Man said:

Boomers was also the name given by the US to Soviet nuclear subs, I think.

‘Boomer’ is an American-originated term, applied to ballistic missile submarines, regardless of nationality.

I think we had six white ones

dv said:

I think we had six white ones

Rolf did.

Foreign born immigrants vote 60/40 in Labors favour

Shame your kids won’t be able to buy a home that’s the price you pay for being stupid. I say labor needs to get back in for another 4 years – better to kill this “country” quickly.

Pretty sick of these billionaires getting involved in politics

Thanks for your report. We’ve fulfilled our promise to the Jackie Lambie Network. Now we will get on with the same stuff as before.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-03/tas-stadium-scathing-independent-gruen-review/104780914

Michael V said:

Thanks for your report. We’ve fulfilled our promise to the Jackie Lambie Network. Now we will get on with the same stuff as before.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-03/tas-stadium-scathing-independent-gruen-review/104780914

Blown out into 10-digits.

Michael V said:

Thanks for your report. We’ve fulfilled our promise to the Jackie Lambie Network. Now we will get on with the same stuff as before.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-03/tas-stadium-scathing-independent-gruen-review/104780914

“The report is a scathing assessment of the proposed stadium and finds the costs are “significantly understated”, benefits “overstated”, and the projected $775 million price tag is unrealistic.”

Ho hum. Colour me shocked.

Michael V said:

Thanks for your report. We’ve fulfilled our promise to the Jackie Lambie Network. Now we will get on with the same stuff as before.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-03/tas-stadium-scathing-independent-gruen-review/104780914

“The 170-page Gruen report is damning.

It finds fault with the AFL’s agreement with the Tasmanian government, describing it as imposing “needless costs and restraints on the realisation of a Tasmanian team”, argues the timeline for the project is unrealistic and site selection was flawed.

The development application for a proposed multi-purpose stadium in Hobart has been lodged, with construction expected to cost $60 million more than previously estimated.

“The site selection analysis released was hasty and partial and gives the strong impression of being crafted to support conclusions already made,” Dr Gruen wrote.

“I think it likely that the site selection process rejected sites that would have generated lower costs and higher benefits while receiving greater community support.”“

You really have to wonder at what facors are at work when an independent report finds that the ‘responsible’ parties appeared to be hell-bent on going for what seems to be the worst possible option, good sense and accountability be damned.

I might suggest some pecuniary interest, but, as i apparently live in a glass house, i feel that i should eschew the projection of lithic objects.

captain_spalding said:

Michael V said:

Thanks for your report. We’ve fulfilled our promise to the Jackie Lambie Network. Now we will get on with the same stuff as before.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-03/tas-stadium-scathing-independent-gruen-review/104780914

“The 170-page Gruen report is damning.

It finds fault with the AFL’s agreement with the Tasmanian government, describing it as imposing “needless costs and restraints on the realisation of a Tasmanian team”, argues the timeline for the project is unrealistic and site selection was flawed.

The development application for a proposed multi-purpose stadium in Hobart has been lodged, with construction expected to cost $60 million more than previously estimated.

“The site selection analysis released was hasty and partial and gives the strong impression of being crafted to support conclusions already made,” Dr Gruen wrote.

“I think it likely that the site selection process rejected sites that would have generated lower costs and higher benefits while receiving greater community support.”“

You really have to wonder at what facors are at work when an independent report finds that the ‘responsible’ parties appeared to be hell-bent on going for what seems to be the worst possible option, good sense and accountability be damned.

I might suggest some pecuniary interest, but, as i apparently live in a glass house, i feel that i should eschew the projection of lithic objects.

Shear stubbornness from the parties involved perhaps

Cymek said:

captain_spalding said:

Michael V said:

Thanks for your report. We’ve fulfilled our promise to the Jackie Lambie Network. Now we will get on with the same stuff as before.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-03/tas-stadium-scathing-independent-gruen-review/104780914

“The 170-page Gruen report is damning.

It finds fault with the AFL’s agreement with the Tasmanian government, describing it as imposing “needless costs and restraints on the realisation of a Tasmanian team”, argues the timeline for the project is unrealistic and site selection was flawed.

The development application for a proposed multi-purpose stadium in Hobart has been lodged, with construction expected to cost $60 million more than previously estimated.

“The site selection analysis released was hasty and partial and gives the strong impression of being crafted to support conclusions already made,” Dr Gruen wrote.

“I think it likely that the site selection process rejected sites that would have generated lower costs and higher benefits while receiving greater community support.”“

You really have to wonder at what facors are at work when an independent report finds that the ‘responsible’ parties appeared to be hell-bent on going for what seems to be the worst possible option, good sense and accountability be damned.

I might suggest some pecuniary interest, but, as i apparently live in a glass house, i feel that i should eschew the projection of lithic objects.

Shear stubbornness from the parties involved perhaps

Yes, well, there’s never been any shortage of that in the halls of power.

Or anywhere else, for that matter.

captain_spalding said:

Michael V said:

Thanks for your report. We’ve fulfilled our promise to the Jackie Lambie Network. Now we will get on with the same stuff as before.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-03/tas-stadium-scathing-independent-gruen-review/104780914

“The 170-page Gruen report is damning.

It finds fault with the AFL’s agreement with the Tasmanian government, describing it as imposing “needless costs and restraints on the realisation of a Tasmanian team”, argues the timeline for the project is unrealistic and site selection was flawed.

The development application for a proposed multi-purpose stadium in Hobart has been lodged, with construction expected to cost $60 million more than previously estimated.

“The site selection analysis released was hasty and partial and gives the strong impression of being crafted to support conclusions already made,” Dr Gruen wrote.

“I think it likely that the site selection process rejected sites that would have generated lower costs and higher benefits while receiving greater community support.”“

You really have to wonder at what facors are at work when an independent report finds that the ‘responsible’ parties appeared to be hell-bent on going for what seems to be the worst possible option, good sense and accountability be damned.

I might suggest some pecuniary interest, but, as i apparently live in a glass house, i feel that i should eschew the projection of lithic objects.

it is not about the cost. it is about (some) people in Tasmania wanting to feel better connected and integrated into Australian culture by having a local team in the national league of the most popular sport in the state. Instead of looking on from the outside and watching the games on TV. There is no price that can be put on this thing, it is social not economic. The economics of it don’t stack up and never will.

party_pants said:

There is no price that can be put on this thing, it is social not economic. The economics of it don’t stack up and never will.

That still doesn’t really explain why this thing even needs to cost a billion dollars.

dv said:

party_pants said:

There is no price that can be put on this thing, it is social not economic. The economics of it don’t stack up and never will.

That still doesn’t really explain why this thing even needs to cost a billion dollars.

Simple, the stadium has a glass roof covering the whole of the playing field.

party_pants said:

it is not about the cost. it is about (some) people in Tasmania wanting to feel better connected and integrated into Australian culture by having a local team in the national league of the most popular sport in the state. Instead of looking on from the outside and watching the games on TV. There is no price that can be put on this thing, it is social not economic. The economics of it don’t stack up and never will.

Fair enough.

Agreed that it’s always going to be a costly exercise in social integration and cohesion, but with warm-fuzzies as the ultimate goal.

Does seem weird that they appear to have gone out of their way to maximise the financial cost, and gone with an option that seems to have been foregone to create division among Tasmanians, especially in Hobart.

party_pants said:

dv said:

party_pants said:

There is no price that can be put on this thing, it is social not economic. The economics of it don’t stack up and never will.

That still doesn’t really explain why this thing even needs to cost a billion dollars.

Simple, the stadium has a glass roof covering the whole of the playing field.

So, why do that? Why does the AFL’s Hobart venue require this when most of the AFL’s venues are not fully glass domed? Hobart rainfall is about the same as Melbourne’s. It seems like goldplating.

dv said:

party_pants said:

dv said:

That still doesn’t really explain why this thing even needs to cost a billion dollars.

Simple, the stadium has a glass roof covering the whole of the playing field.

So, why do that? Why does the AFL’s Hobart venue require this when most of the AFL’s venues are not fully glass domed? Hobart rainfall is about the same as Melbourne’s. It seems like goldplating.

Yeah, it is a bit. But that’s what they do in other cold climates with major sports stadiums.

But then again, I can see it being more comfortable. Apart from Woodie and his precious Swannies (never heard of them) I am probably one of the most ardent followers of the sport here. But even I would consider staying at home and watching it on TV instead of sitting outside unsheltered and exposed to the elements on a typical winter’s day in Hobart; with late afternoon temps falling below 10C along with howling wind and driving rain.

party_pants said:

But even I would consider staying at home and watching it on TV instead of sitting outside unsheltered and exposed to the elements on a typical winter’s day in Hobart; with late afternoon temps falling below 10C along with howling wind and driving rain.

Is that not part of the esprit de corps of the hardcore fans of game and club? That they endure the elmental hardships to lend their support to their champions, whereas fainter souls are content to remain by the hearth, observe at a televisual distance, and so earn the scorn of the staunch and the die-hard?

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

But even I would consider staying at home and watching it on TV instead of sitting outside unsheltered and exposed to the elements on a typical winter’s day in Hobart; with late afternoon temps falling below 10C along with howling wind and driving rain.

Is that not part of the esprit de corps of the hardcore fans of game and club? That they endure the elmental hardships to lend their support to their champions, whereas fainter souls are content to remain by the hearth, observe at a televisual distance, and so earn the scorn of the staunch and the die-hard?

Probably there is an element of that going on, but the cadre of such supporters is limited in scope and may be of insufficient numbers to fill the stadium.

party_pants said:

dv said:

party_pants said:

Simple, the stadium has a glass roof covering the whole of the playing field.

So, why do that? Why does the AFL’s Hobart venue require this when most of the AFL’s venues are not fully glass domed? Hobart rainfall is about the same as Melbourne’s. It seems like goldplating.

Yeah, it is a bit. But that’s what they do in other cold climates with major sports stadiums.

But then again, I can see it being more comfortable. Apart from Woodie and his precious Swannies (never heard of them) I am probably one of the most ardent followers of the sport here. But even I would consider staying at home and watching it on TV instead of sitting outside unsheltered and exposed to the elements on a typical winter’s day in Hobart; with late afternoon temps falling below 10C along with howling wind and driving rain.

Even though it is more likely to be grey and damp.

party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

But even I would consider staying at home and watching it on TV instead of sitting outside unsheltered and exposed to the elements on a typical winter’s day in Hobart; with late afternoon temps falling below 10C along with howling wind and driving rain.

Is that not part of the esprit de corps of the hardcore fans of game and club? That they endure the elmental hardships to lend their support to their champions, whereas fainter souls are content to remain by the hearth, observe at a televisual distance, and so earn the scorn of the staunch and the die-hard?

Probably there is an element of that going on, but the cadre of such supporters is limited in scope and may be of insufficient numbers to fill the stadium.

it is possible to build stands that are under cover and even heated.

sarahs mum said:

party_pants said:

dv said:

So, why do that? Why does the AFL’s Hobart venue require this when most of the AFL’s venues are not fully glass domed? Hobart rainfall is about the same as Melbourne’s. It seems like goldplating.

Yeah, it is a bit. But that’s what they do in other cold climates with major sports stadiums.

But then again, I can see it being more comfortable. Apart from Woodie and his precious Swannies (never heard of them) I am probably one of the most ardent followers of the sport here. But even I would consider staying at home and watching it on TV instead of sitting outside unsheltered and exposed to the elements on a typical winter’s day in Hobart; with late afternoon temps falling below 10C along with howling wind and driving rain.

Even though it is more likely to be grey and damp.

OK, IK must admit to never having been to Hobart.

But it is bad enough sitting in an outdoor seat on a stormy winter’s day in Perth, and I have done it a number of times. I can only imagine Hobart being worse, and far colder.

party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

Is that not part of the esprit de corps of the hardcore fans of game and club? That they endure the elmental hardships to lend their support to their champions, whereas fainter souls are content to remain by the hearth, observe at a televisual distance, and so earn the scorn of the staunch and the die-hard?

Probably there is an element of that going on, but the cadre of such supporters is limited in scope and may be of insufficient numbers to fill the stadium.

Well, they don’t know what they’re missing, do they?

When you’re standing there, soaked to the skin, and your teeth chattering, and your side scores a goal, or a try, or a hole-in-one, or whatever, your sense of participation in the triumph is doubled, if not trebled.

Then, after the game, when all repair to the hostelry, the restorative effects of whisky, brandy, rum, and ale feel well-earned and much enhanced, and the re-telling of the game has a strong camaraderie.

sarahs mum said:

party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

Is that not part of the esprit de corps of the hardcore fans of game and club? That they endure the elmental hardships to lend their support to their champions, whereas fainter souls are content to remain by the hearth, observe at a televisual distance, and so earn the scorn of the staunch and the die-hard?

Probably there is an element of that going on, but the cadre of such supporters is limited in scope and may be of insufficient numbers to fill the stadium.

it is possible to build stands that are under cover and even heated.

O tempora, o mores!

sarahs mum said:

party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

Is that not part of the esprit de corps of the hardcore fans of game and club? That they endure the elmental hardships to lend their support to their champions, whereas fainter souls are content to remain by the hearth, observe at a televisual distance, and so earn the scorn of the staunch and the die-hard?

Probably there is an element of that going on, but the cadre of such supporters is limited in scope and may be of insufficient numbers to fill the stadium.

it is possible to build stands that are under cover and even heated.

Probably easy to build stands with large overhanging roof to give some protection from the rain, but depends which side of the wind is coming from.

The other option would be to have a solid retractable roof which can be closed on match days. Not sure what the cost difference is between that and a fixed clear (glass or plastic) roof. I did see somewhere that the proposal was to have a timber framed glass roof. I am not sure that is the cheapest option as opposed to say steel and plastic sheeting.

party_pants said:

I did see somewhere that the proposal was to have a timber framed glass roof.

Timber frame would, i suggest, require the highest maintenance costs.

Timber that’s exposed to rain and sun always needs diligent care.

party_pants said:

sarahs mum said:

party_pants said:

Probably there is an element of that going on, but the cadre of such supporters is limited in scope and may be of insufficient numbers to fill the stadium.

it is possible to build stands that are under cover and even heated.

Probably easy to build stands with large overhanging roof to give some protection from the rain, but depends which side of the wind is coming from.

The other option would be to have a solid retractable roof which can be closed on match days. Not sure what the cost difference is between that and a fixed clear (glass or plastic) roof. I did see somewhere that the proposal was to have a timber framed glass roof. I am not sure that is the cheapest option as opposed to say steel and plastic sheeting.

There seems to be an emotional need to make the stadium an architectural statement, not just a functional industrial building.

party_pants said:

There seems to be an emotional need to make the stadium an architectural statement, not just a functional industrial building.

Wouldn’t it be nice (and the industrial landscape a more pleasing sight) if the same need was felt among the ‘designers’ of functional industrial buildings? At lest just a little bit?

sarahs mum said:

party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

Is that not part of the esprit de corps of the hardcore fans of game and club? That they endure the elmental hardships to lend their support to their champions, whereas fainter souls are content to remain by the hearth, observe at a televisual distance, and so earn the scorn of the staunch and the die-hard?

Probably there is an element of that going on, but the cadre of such supporters is limited in scope and may be of insufficient numbers to fill the stadium.

it is possible to build stands that are under cover and even heated.

That’d be the go.

Total price.. the usual.. about $2.2 Bil

Ian said:

sarahs mum said:

party_pants said:

Probably there is an element of that going on, but the cadre of such supporters is limited in scope and may be of insufficient numbers to fill the stadium.

it is possible to build stands that are under cover and even heated.

That’d be the go.

Total price.. the usual.. about $2.2 Bil

Some things seem to have a fixed cost, no matter when you look at buying them.

A new PC, with a good selection of the currently-ideal capabilities: $5,000

A presentable stadium: around $2 billion.

Michael V said:

Thanks for your report. We’ve fulfilled our promise to the Jackie Lambie Network. Now we will get on with the same stuff as before.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-03/tas-stadium-scathing-independent-gruen-review/104780914

> Eric Abetz said, “We thank Dr Gruen for his work, and in preparing the report”.

He then said the government was “moving ahead” with delivering the project.<

Yep, the same old shit from adherents to the “Yes Minister” school of bullshit.

Someone makes a decision and then demands reports/surveys/consultations to support it. If the reports don’t support it they ignore them and do it anyway. We see it over and over.

After the inevitable giant fuckup occurs, there is a royal commission on the disaster, the results come in 2 years later and are summarily filed in the bin. Meanwhile the guilty party has already retired from politics with a fat pension and is sunning his/her arse on a beach somewhere in the sun being paid as a “consultant” by one of the construction firms/oil companies/etc while the taxpayers lose out on any actual assets as they have to pay off the debt and lawsuits incurred.

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

There seems to be an emotional need to make the stadium an architectural statement, not just a functional industrial building.

Wouldn’t it be nice (and the industrial landscape a more pleasing sight) if the same need was felt among the ‘designers’ of functional industrial buildings? At lest just a little bit?

It would be nice, but that’s a whole new topic.

Kingy said:

Michael V said:

Thanks for your report. We’ve fulfilled our promise to the Jackie Lambie Network. Now we will get on with the same stuff as before.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-03/tas-stadium-scathing-independent-gruen-review/104780914

> Eric Abetz said, “We thank Dr Gruen for his work, and in preparing the report”.

He then said the government was “moving ahead” with delivering the project.<

Yep, the same old shit from adherents to the “Yes Minister” school of bullshit.

Someone makes a decision and then demands reports/surveys/consultations to support it. If the reports don’t support it they ignore them and do it anyway. We see it over and over.

After the inevitable giant fuckup occurs, there is a royal commission on the disaster, the results come in 2 years later and are summarily filed in the bin. Meanwhile the guilty party has already retired from politics with a fat pension and is sunning his/her arse on a beach somewhere in the sun being paid as a “consultant” by one of the construction firms/oil companies/etc while the taxpayers lose out on any actual assets as they have to pay off the debt and lawsuits incurred.

How dare you suggest that any of our hard-working politicians act out of any but the loftiest motives, or spare a thought for anything so base as money?

Kingy said:

Michael V said:

Thanks for your report. We’ve fulfilled our promise to the Jackie Lambie Network. Now we will get on with the same stuff as before.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-03/tas-stadium-scathing-independent-gruen-review/104780914

> Eric Abetz said, “We thank Dr Gruen for his work, and in preparing the report”.

He then said the government was “moving ahead” with delivering the project.<

Yep, the same old shit from adherents to the “Yes Minister” school of bullshit.

Someone makes a decision and then demands reports/surveys/consultations to support it. If the reports don’t support it they ignore them and do it anyway. We see it over and over.

After the inevitable giant fuckup occurs, there is a royal commission on the disaster, the results come in 2 years later and are summarily filed in the bin. Meanwhile the guilty party has already retired from politics with a fat pension and is sunning his/her arse on a beach somewhere in the sun being paid as a “consultant” by one of the construction firms/oil companies/etc while the taxpayers lose out on any actual assets as they have to pay off the debt and lawsuits incurred.

Abetz likes football.

Also the labs are locked in. but the labs here are lobbying for Dutton. so that tells you all you need to know.

sarahs mum said:

so that tells you all you need to know.

That it’s time to see if NZ is interested in buying Tasmania?

Kingy said:

Michael V said:

Thanks for your report. We’ve fulfilled our promise to the Jackie Lambie Network. Now we will get on with the same stuff as before.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-03/tas-stadium-scathing-independent-gruen-review/104780914

> Eric Abetz said, “We thank Dr Gruen for his work, and in preparing the report”.

He then said the government was “moving ahead” with delivering the project.<

Yep, the same old shit from adherents to the “Yes Minister” school of bullshit.

Someone makes a decision and then demands reports/surveys/consultations to support it. If the reports don’t support it they ignore them and do it anyway. We see it over and over.

After the inevitable giant fuckup occurs, there is a royal commission on the disaster, the results come in 2 years later and are summarily filed in the bin. Meanwhile the guilty party has already retired from politics with a fat pension and is sunning his/her arse on a beach somewhere in the sun being paid as a “consultant” by one of the construction firms/oil companies/etc while the taxpayers lose out on any actual assets as they have to pay off the debt and lawsuits incurred.

Pretty much.

captain_spalding said:

Kingy said:

Michael V said:

Thanks for your report. We’ve fulfilled our promise to the Jackie Lambie Network. Now we will get on with the same stuff as before.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-03/tas-stadium-scathing-independent-gruen-review/104780914

> Eric Abetz said, “We thank Dr Gruen for his work, and in preparing the report”.

He then said the government was “moving ahead” with delivering the project.<

Yep, the same old shit from adherents to the “Yes Minister” school of bullshit.

Someone makes a decision and then demands reports/surveys/consultations to support it. If the reports don’t support it they ignore them and do it anyway. We see it over and over.

After the inevitable giant fuckup occurs, there is a royal commission on the disaster, the results come in 2 years later and are summarily filed in the bin. Meanwhile the guilty party has already retired from politics with a fat pension and is sunning his/her arse on a beach somewhere in the sun being paid as a “consultant” by one of the construction firms/oil companies/etc while the taxpayers lose out on any actual assets as they have to pay off the debt and lawsuits incurred.

How dare you suggest that any of our hard-working politicians act out of any but the loftiest motives, or spare a thought for anything so base as money?

Au contraire. It is you who always suggests that politicians aren’t largely just like everyone else. And the constant allusions to your own saintliness get a bit jarring after the hundredeth time.

party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

There seems to be an emotional need to make the stadium an architectural statement, not just a functional industrial building.

Wouldn’t it be nice (and the industrial landscape a more pleasing sight) if the same need was felt among the ‘designers’ of functional industrial buildings? At lest just a little bit?

It would be nice, but that’s a whole new topic.

and it would also be nice that when they did the same people didn’t whine about how they don’t like the design.

Witty Rejoinder said:

captain_spalding said:

Kingy said:

> Eric Abetz said, “We thank Dr Gruen for his work, and in preparing the report”.

He then said the government was “moving ahead” with delivering the project.<

Yep, the same old shit from adherents to the “Yes Minister” school of bullshit.

Someone makes a decision and then demands reports/surveys/consultations to support it. If the reports don’t support it they ignore them and do it anyway. We see it over and over.

After the inevitable giant fuckup occurs, there is a royal commission on the disaster, the results come in 2 years later and are summarily filed in the bin. Meanwhile the guilty party has already retired from politics with a fat pension and is sunning his/her arse on a beach somewhere in the sun being paid as a “consultant” by one of the construction firms/oil companies/etc while the taxpayers lose out on any actual assets as they have to pay off the debt and lawsuits incurred.

How dare you suggest that any of our hard-working politicians act out of any but the loftiest motives, or spare a thought for anything so base as money?

Au contraire. It is you who always suggests that politicians aren’t largely just like everyone else. And the constant allusions to your own saintliness get a bit jarring after the hundredeth time.

Oh, i used to be like that.

But, now, i’ve had the aura of my wees error of my ways shown to me, and i’m reformed.

I’ve been saved. Hallelujah.

Bogsnorkler said:

party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

Wouldn’t it be nice (and the industrial landscape a more pleasing sight) if the same need was felt among the ‘designers’ of functional industrial buildings? At lest just a little bit?

It would be nice, but that’s a whole new topic.

and it would also be nice that when they did the same people didn’t whine about how they don’t like the design.

I don’t like the design when viewed with historic Georgian architecture.

captain_spalding said:

Ian said:

sarahs mum said:

it is possible to build stands that are under cover and even heated.

That’d be the go.

Total price.. the usual.. about $2.2 Bil

Some things seem to have a fixed cost, no matter when you look at buying them.

A new PC, with a good selection of the currently-ideal capabilities: $5,000

A presentable stadium: around $2 billion.

Crazy.

Townsville is about the size of Hobart. The new stadium there cost $250 million and frankly that was another goldplated extravagance. Admittedly for AFL the length of the ground would need to be increased 15% … let’s go nuts and allocate $350 million for a stadium in Hobart.

sarahs mum said:

Bogsnorkler said:

party_pants said:

It would be nice, but that’s a whole new topic.

and it would also be nice that when they did the same people didn’t whine about how they don’t like the design.

I don’t like the design when viewed with historic Georgian architecture.

I agree. Somewhere else, it might work perfectly.

Michael V said:

sarahs mum said:

Bogsnorkler said:

and it would also be nice that when they did the same people didn’t whine about how they don’t like the design.

I don’t like the design when viewed with historic Georgian architecture.

I agree. Somewhere else, it might work perfectly.

looking at the artist impression it appears to be the best looking building in that area.

Bogsnorkler said:

Michael V said:

sarahs mum said:

I don’t like the design when viewed with historic Georgian architecture.

I agree. Somewhere else, it might work perfectly.

looking at the artist impression it appears to be the best looking building in that area.

Michael V said:

sarahs mum said:

Bogsnorkler said:

and it would also be nice that when they did the same people didn’t whine about how they don’t like the design.

I don’t like the design when viewed with historic Georgian architecture.

I agree. Somewhere else, it might work perfectly.

Yes. The design/style/appearance of it has nothing wrong with it, when viewed in isolation.

It’s when you see the ‘artists’ impressions’ of how it’d look on the proposed site that it takes on some aspects of ‘an eyesore’.

Bogsnorkler said:

Michael V said:

sarahs mum said:

I don’t like the design when viewed with historic Georgian architecture.

I agree. Somewhere else, it might work perfectly.

looking at the artist impression it appears to be the best looking building in that area.

A fair point. Compared to its immediate neighbours, it’s ok.

Doesn’t look so good, looming over the older tourist-favourite structures.

sarahs mum said:

Bogsnorkler said:

Michael V said:

I agree. Somewhere else, it might work perfectly.

looking at the artist impression it appears to be the best looking building in that area.

captain_spalding said:

Bogsnorkler said:

Michael V said:

I agree. Somewhere else, it might work perfectly.

looking at the artist impression it appears to be the best looking building in that area.

A fair point. Compared to its immediate neighbours, it’s ok.

Doesn’t look so good, looming over the older tourist-favourite structures.

the boys have no vision. they want an opera house. they want a darling harbour. they want an MCG.

this is more about landing a shit in full view. It isn’t about what we need or want in that location.

Hmm…

…to be honest, i’ve never been to Hobart. Got rellos there, but never been.

I understand that it’s a very pleasant place to visit, and i may well do it, one day.

But, judging by all of those pics, i don’t think that i should go there expecting extraordinary inspiration from its modern architecture.

I actually like this one. But the view from the library and printmaking was better before it was renovated/renewed.

You showed also the marine board building that has a list of people wanting it removed and the sheraton which is one of the most hated buildings in the city.

captain_spalding said:

Hmm…

…to be honest, i’ve never been to Hobart. Got rellos there, but never been.

I understand that it’s a very pleasant place to visit, and i may well do it, one day.

But, judging by all of those pics, i don’t think that i should go there expecting extraordinary inspiration from its modern architecture.

It’s true that there are some regrettable modern buildings around the waterfront area, but that doesn’t mean it’s fine to dump an even more regrettable one there.

I reckon if it was a new arts building it wouldn’t get this flack.

Bubblecar said:

captain_spalding said:

Hmm…

…to be honest, i’ve never been to Hobart. Got rellos there, but never been.

I understand that it’s a very pleasant place to visit, and i may well do it, one day.

But, judging by all of those pics, i don’t think that i should go there expecting extraordinary inspiration from its modern architecture.

It’s true that there are some regrettable modern buildings around the waterfront area, but that doesn’t mean it’s fine to dump an even more regrettable one there.

I agree.

Bubblecar said:

captain_spalding said:

Hmm…

…to be honest, i’ve never been to Hobart. Got rellos there, but never been.

I understand that it’s a very pleasant place to visit, and i may well do it, one day.

But, judging by all of those pics, i don’t think that i should go there expecting extraordinary inspiration from its modern architecture.

It’s true that there are some regrettable modern buildings around the waterfront area, but that doesn’t mean it’s fine to dump an even more regrettable one there.

It’s not exactly small either to be absorbed by other nicer buildings surrounding it.

captain_spalding said:

Hmm…

…to be honest, i’ve never been to Hobart. Got rellos there, but never been.

I understand that it’s a very pleasant place to visit, and i may well do it, one day.

But, judging by all of those pics, i don’t think that i should go there expecting extraordinary inspiration from its modern architecture.

It’s very low rise. (there are some larger buildings west of those photos.) And that makes it liveable. Also quotes cousin’s wife Charmaine from WA. “ I never thought I could live in a 150-year-old weatherboard house but the B&B has me convinced otherwise.”

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

There seems to be an emotional need to make the stadium an architectural statement, not just a functional industrial building.

Wouldn’t it be nice (and the industrial landscape a more pleasing sight) if the same need was felt among the ‘designers’ of functional industrial buildings? At lest just a little bit?

A friend of mine studied architecture at uni for three years, then quit when he realised he would probably be spending his life designing industrial sheds instead of the next Sydney Opera House.

Neophyte said:

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

There seems to be an emotional need to make the stadium an architectural statement, not just a functional industrial building.

Wouldn’t it be nice (and the industrial landscape a more pleasing sight) if the same need was felt among the ‘designers’ of functional industrial buildings? At lest just a little bit?

A friend of mine studied architecture at uni for three years, then quit when he realised he would probably be spending his life designing industrial sheds instead of the next Sydney Opera House.

Someone actually designs those industrial joints with the cement-slab walls?!

Bogsnorkler said:

I reckon if it was a new arts building it wouldn’t get this flack.

I reckon there is zero percent chance of Hobart spending a billion dollars on a new arts building.

Bogsnorkler said:

I reckon if it was a new arts building it wouldn’t get this flack.

I think a new arts building in this precinct makes sense. TMAG’s collection overflows into the Rosny store and has much hidden away. MONA doesn’t deal in Tasmanian contemporary work per se and is more about shock values.

Moving the stadium on to the Domain would put it with the pool, the tennis courts and the athletics stuff. Convincing Tasmanians to cede some of the domain would be tricky. Unless you could swap it out and put a park in down there on the dock and call it the lower domain precinct.

dv said:

Bogsnorkler said:

I reckon if it was a new arts building it wouldn’t get this flack.

I reckon there is zero percent chance of Hobart spending a billion dollars on a new arts building.

no money in fringe interests.

Neophyte said:

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

There seems to be an emotional need to make the stadium an architectural statement, not just a functional industrial building.

Wouldn’t it be nice (and the industrial landscape a more pleasing sight) if the same need was felt among the ‘designers’ of functional industrial buildings? At lest just a little bit?

A friend of mine studied architecture at uni for three years, then quit when he realised he would probably be spending his life designing industrial sheds instead of the next Sydney Opera House.

Easier to pretend one is an architect and make up building you designed.
Works for George

I think sports stadia should be bold and modern and not try to hide what they are. They are too big to “blend in” with the surrounding area by having some fake facade. They will dominate the area because of their size, no matter what.

Cymek said:

Neophyte said:

captain_spalding said:

Wouldn’t it be nice (and the industrial landscape a more pleasing sight) if the same need was felt among the ‘designers’ of functional industrial buildings? At lest just a little bit?

A friend of mine studied architecture at uni for three years, then quit when he realised he would probably be spending his life designing industrial sheds instead of the next Sydney Opera House.

Easier to pretend one is an architect and make up building you designed.
Works for George

I seem to recall that the author Tom Wolfe, in ‘From Bauhaus To Our House’ suggested that some architects might go through their whole careers with only one building ever actually constructed.

Usually, a house designed for (and paid for) by their mother.

You can download the book from here:

https://annas-archive.org/search?q=from+bauhaus

It’s a little dated now, but it does take an entertaining look at the herd of sacred cows that ‘influential’ architects formed.

party_pants said:

I think sports stadia should be bold and modern and not try to hide what they are. They are too big to “blend in” with the surrounding area by having some fake facade. They will dominate the area because of their size, no matter what.

Can’t argue with that. They’ll be what they are.

The argument is over where they’ll be that.

party_pants said:

I think sports stadia should be bold and modern and not try to hide what they are. They are too big to “blend in” with the surrounding area by having some fake facade. They will dominate the area because of their size, no matter what.

yep, I mean the Coliseum in Rome stands out.

Bogsnorkler said:

party_pants said:

I think sports stadia should be bold and modern and not try to hide what they are. They are too big to “blend in” with the surrounding area by having some fake facade. They will dominate the area because of their size, no matter what.

yep, I mean the Coliseum in Rome stands out.

It was probably the most modern building of its day.

But not near big enough even for soccer or rugby, let alone AFL.

Heck, since Tasmania obviously has infinite money to spent on kickaball facities why not just build the whole thing underground so the appearance doesn’t matter so much.

dv said:

Heck, since Tasmania obviously has infinite money to spent on kickaball facities why not just build the whole thing underground so the appearance doesn’t matter so much.

I’m waiting for reality to collide with aspiration … any time soon.

Hopefully before they sign final contracts.

party_pants said:

dv said:

Heck, since Tasmania obviously has infinite money to spent on kickaball facities why not just build the whole thing underground so the appearance doesn’t matter so much.

I’m waiting for reality to collide with aspiration … any time soon.

Hopefully before they sign final contracts.

Is this stadium to be used in the Summer for anything? A glass roof will be dreadfully hot on a hot January day in Hobart. I’ve been there when it’s hit 40 degrees. As unpleasant as anywhere else at 40 and you wouldn’t want to be in a terrarium.

buffy said:

party_pants said:

dv said:

Heck, since Tasmania obviously has infinite money to spent on kickaball facities why not just build the whole thing underground so the appearance doesn’t matter so much.

I’m waiting for reality to collide with aspiration … any time soon.

Hopefully before they sign final contracts.

Is this stadium to be used in the Summer for anything? A glass roof will be dreadfully hot on a hot January day in Hobart. I’ve been there when it’s hit 40 degrees. As unpleasant as anywhere else at 40 and you wouldn’t want to be in a terrarium.

I don’t think so, but I’m not sure.

party_pants said:

buffy said:

party_pants said:

I’m waiting for reality to collide with aspiration … any time soon.

Hopefully before they sign final contracts.

Is this stadium to be used in the Summer for anything? A glass roof will be dreadfully hot on a hot January day in Hobart. I’ve been there when it’s hit 40 degrees. As unpleasant as anywhere else at 40 and you wouldn’t want to be in a terrarium.

I don’t think so, but I’m not sure.

Growing drugs, to pay it off.

buffy said:

party_pants said:

dv said:

Heck, since Tasmania obviously has infinite money to spent on kickaball facities why not just build the whole thing underground so the appearance doesn’t matter so much.

I’m waiting for reality to collide with aspiration … any time soon.

Hopefully before they sign final contracts.

Is this stadium to be used in the Summer for anything? A glass roof will be dreadfully hot on a hot January day in Hobart. I’ve been there when it’s hit 40 degrees. As unpleasant as anywhere else at 40 and you wouldn’t want to be in a terrarium.

No doubt they’ll give cricket a go.

I personally think the glass roof thing is just some wannabe architect having a wank.

What’s going to hold it up?
What happens when it hails?
How do you cool it in summer?

Oh, yeah, that’s the engineers problems.

Kingy said:

buffy said:

party_pants said:

I’m waiting for reality to collide with aspiration … any time soon.

Hopefully before they sign final contracts.

Is this stadium to be used in the Summer for anything? A glass roof will be dreadfully hot on a hot January day in Hobart. I’ve been there when it’s hit 40 degrees. As unpleasant as anywhere else at 40 and you wouldn’t want to be in a terrarium.

No doubt they’ll give cricket a go.

I personally think the glass roof thing is just some wannabe architect having a wank.

What’s going to hold it up?
What happens when it hails?
How do you cool it in summer?

Oh, yeah, that’s the engineers problems.

It slides open/closed, like in “Thunderbirds”

Neophyte said:

Kingy said:

buffy said:

Is this stadium to be used in the Summer for anything? A glass roof will be dreadfully hot on a hot January day in Hobart. I’ve been there when it’s hit 40 degrees. As unpleasant as anywhere else at 40 and you wouldn’t want to be in a terrarium.

No doubt they’ll give cricket a go.

I personally think the glass roof thing is just some wannabe architect having a wank.

What’s going to hold it up?
What happens when it hails?
How do you cool it in summer?

Oh, yeah, that’s the engineers problems.

It slides open/closed, like in “Thunderbirds”

I think they might need an opening and closing roof

party_pants said:

buffy said:

party_pants said:

I’m waiting for reality to collide with aspiration … any time soon.

Hopefully before they sign final contracts.

Is this stadium to be used in the Summer for anything? A glass roof will be dreadfully hot on a hot January day in Hobart. I’ve been there when it’s hit 40 degrees. As unpleasant as anywhere else at 40 and you wouldn’t want to be in a terrarium.

I don’t think so, but I’m not sure.

That would make it even more wasteful, if it is only used for part of the year.

Kingy said:

buffy said:

party_pants said:

I’m waiting for reality to collide with aspiration … any time soon.

Hopefully before they sign final contracts.

Is this stadium to be used in the Summer for anything? A glass roof will be dreadfully hot on a hot January day in Hobart. I’ve been there when it’s hit 40 degrees. As unpleasant as anywhere else at 40 and you wouldn’t want to be in a terrarium.

No doubt they’ll give cricket a go.

I personally think the glass roof thing is just some wannabe architect having a wank.

What’s going to hold it up?
What happens when it hails?
How do you cool it in summer?

Oh, yeah, that’s the engineers problems.

They’ll just have to huff, and then puff, and bloooooooooow the roof down.

Afterall, it will be made of sticks, hey what but.

party_pants said:

Neophyte said:

Kingy said:

No doubt they’ll give cricket a go.

I personally think the glass roof thing is just some wannabe architect having a wank.

What’s going to hold it up?
What happens when it hails?
How do you cool it in summer?

Oh, yeah, that’s the engineers problems.

It slides open/closed, like in “Thunderbirds”

I think they might need an opening and closing roof

Well, that’s unlikely to be wood framed as mentioned earlier. My Hobart civil engineer brother was involved in the design of the roof of the stadium in Melbourne. I suppose things have moved on a bit since then, but that wasn’t easy.

Neophyte said:

Kingy said:

buffy said:

Is this stadium to be used in the Summer for anything? A glass roof will be dreadfully hot on a hot January day in Hobart. I’ve been there when it’s hit 40 degrees. As unpleasant as anywhere else at 40 and you wouldn’t want to be in a terrarium.

No doubt they’ll give cricket a go.

I personally think the glass roof thing is just some wannabe architect having a wank.

What’s going to hold it up?
What happens when it hails?
How do you cool it in summer?

Oh, yeah, that’s the engineers problems.

It slides open/closed, like in “Thunderbirds”

sans palm trees?

buffy said:

party_pants said:

buffy said:

Is this stadium to be used in the Summer for anything? A glass roof will be dreadfully hot on a hot January day in Hobart. I’ve been there when it’s hit 40 degrees. As unpleasant as anywhere else at 40 and you wouldn’t want to be in a terrarium.

I don’t think so, but I’m not sure.

That would make it even more wasteful, if it is only used for part of the year.

I have mentioned this many times too. Hobart already has a cricket ground to use in the summer, and has done for a hundred years. I can’t see the cricket people suddenly moving to a new stadium when they already have a large sunk cost in developing that ground.

party_pants said:

buffy said:

party_pants said:

I don’t think so, but I’m not sure.

That would make it even more wasteful, if it is only used for part of the year.

I have mentioned this many times too. Hobart already has a cricket ground to use in the summer, and has done for a hundred years. I can’t see the cricket people suddenly moving to a new stadium when they already have a large sunk cost in developing that ground.

You mean like they don’t play cricket at optus, only at the waca?

furious said:

party_pants said:

buffy said:

That would make it even more wasteful, if it is only used for part of the year.

I have mentioned this many times too. Hobart already has a cricket ground to use in the summer, and has done for a hundred years. I can’t see the cricket people suddenly moving to a new stadium when they already have a large sunk cost in developing that ground.

You mean like they don’t play cricket at optus, only at the waca?

Are you aware of the politics and argy-bargy it took to get WA cricket to play at the new stadium?

They initially wanted nothing to do with it, and came up with a plan to redevelop the WACA instead, because they had a 999 year lease on the land with a good 900 years left. They asked for government funds but got rejected, so they went to a private developer. Anyway, long story short the private developers couldn’t get the money and it all fell through. Then they had to go back to the state and federal governments cap in hand for the money. Only after these final pleas got rejected they came up with a plan to play cricket at the new stadium as if it was some stoke of genius. Meanwhile, the footy people were lobbying the state government hard to make the new stadium dimensions exactly the same as Subi to preserve “home ground advantage”, which would not have met minimum size for cricket according to ICC rules. The state government had to really stamp their feet to insist that the new stadium will be the correct size (just) to host international cricket.

The amount of politicking and banging heads together that the state government had to do was extraordinary.

I imagine Tasmania would be very similar between footy and cricket.

party_pants said:

furious said:

party_pants said:

I have mentioned this many times too. Hobart already has a cricket ground to use in the summer, and has done for a hundred years. I can’t see the cricket people suddenly moving to a new stadium when they already have a large sunk cost in developing that ground.

You mean like they don’t play cricket at optus, only at the waca?

Are you aware of the politics and argy-bargy it took to get WA cricket to play at the new stadium?

They initially wanted nothing to do with it, and came up with a plan to redevelop the WACA instead, because they had a 999 year lease on the land with a good 900 years left. They asked for government funds but got rejected, so they went to a private developer. Anyway, long story short the private developers couldn’t get the money and it all fell through. Then they had to go back to the state and federal governments cap in hand for the money. Only after these final pleas got rejected they came up with a plan to play cricket at the new stadium as if it was some stoke of genius. Meanwhile, the footy people were lobbying the state government hard to make the new stadium dimensions exactly the same as Subi to preserve “home ground advantage”, which would not have met minimum size for cricket according to ICC rules. The state government had to really stamp their feet to insist that the new stadium will be the correct size (just) to host international cricket.

The amount of politicking and banging heads together that the state government had to do was extraordinary.

I imagine Tasmania would be very similar between footy and cricket.

Mind you, I am very happy with the outcome we got regards the stadium. but it really took the emerpor to put his foot down and override all the petty vested interests, it wasn’t popular at the time.

party_pants said:

I imagine Tasmania would be very similar between footy and cricket.

Reminiscent of inter-service politicking and lobbying in the halls of the Defence Dept in Canberra, and in Parliament House.

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

I imagine Tasmania would be very similar between footy and cricket.

Reminiscent of inter-service politicking and lobbying in the halls of the Defence Dept in Canberra, and in Parliament House.

heh, probably worse than that :)

party_pants said:

furious said:

party_pants said:

I have mentioned this many times too. Hobart already has a cricket ground to use in the summer, and has done for a hundred years. I can’t see the cricket people suddenly moving to a new stadium when they already have a large sunk cost in developing that ground.

You mean like they don’t play cricket at optus, only at the waca?

Are you aware of the politics and argy-bargy it took to get WA cricket to play at the new stadium?

They initially wanted nothing to do with it, and came up with a plan to redevelop the WACA instead, because they had a 999 year lease on the land with a good 900 years left. They asked for government funds but got rejected, so they went to a private developer. Anyway, long story short the private developers couldn’t get the money and it all fell through. Then they had to go back to the state and federal governments cap in hand for the money. Only after these final pleas got rejected they came up with a plan to play cricket at the new stadium as if it was some stoke of genius. Meanwhile, the footy people were lobbying the state government hard to make the new stadium dimensions exactly the same as Subi to preserve “home ground advantage”, which would not have met minimum size for cricket according to ICC rules. The state government had to really stamp their feet to insist that the new stadium will be the correct size (just) to host international cricket.

The amount of politicking and banging heads together that the state government had to do was extraordinary.

I imagine Tasmania would be very similar between footy and cricket.

I actually thought they wanted to make it similar sized to the MCG to add more away game advantage. Cause you have to win at the MCG to win the flag. Other than that, no, I was unaware of any argy bargy because I was far removed during that time…

ABC News:

It may be merely unfortunate coincidence.

Or, it may that, if there’s a bum-side-up worst way of doing something, the Tas govt will not only find it, but adopt it wholeheartedly.

captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

It may be merely unfortunate coincidence.

Or, it may that, if there’s a bum-side-up worst way of doing something, the Tas govt will not only find it, but adopt it wholeheartedly.

Build a sports stadium on it, and float it off Battery Point.

Neophyte said:

captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

It may be merely unfortunate coincidence.

Or, it may that, if there’s a bum-side-up worst way of doing something, the Tas govt will not only find it, but adopt it wholeheartedly.

Build a sports stadium on it, and float it off Battery Point.

Your ideas interest me…

Neophyte said:

captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

It may be merely unfortunate coincidence.

Or, it may that, if there’s a bum-side-up worst way of doing something, the Tas govt will not only find it, but adopt it wholeheartedly.

Build a sports stadium on it, and float it off Battery Point.

see yous all thought it was just a stadium but with its sliding polycarbonate roof and island location turns out it’s actually a missile silo and submarine dock

Neophyte said:

captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

It may be merely unfortunate coincidence.

Or, it may that, if there’s a bum-side-up worst way of doing something, the Tas govt will not only find it, but adopt it wholeheartedly.

Build a sports stadium on it, and float it off Battery Point.

B&B it.

captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

It may be merely unfortunate coincidence.

Or, it may that, if there’s a bum-side-up worst way of doing something, the Tas govt will not only find it, but adopt it wholeheartedly.

Being such a highly qualified and experienced speculator of subjects completely beyond my knowledge, my question is this?

Why can’t they anchor it off tassie for free, or even shuttle passengers to & from it while they conduct the first few voyages across the Bass in order to iron out the inevitable wrinkles of a new ship?

Kingy said:

captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

It may be merely unfortunate coincidence.

Or, it may that, if there’s a bum-side-up worst way of doing something, the Tas govt will not only find it, but adopt it wholeheartedly.

Being such a highly qualified and experienced speculator of subjects completely beyond my knowledge, my question is this?

Why can’t they anchor it off tassie for free, or even shuttle passengers to & from it while they conduct the first few voyages across the Bass in order to iron out the inevitable wrinkles of a new ship?

My good man, if you will insist on making sense, i suggest that you should please find some forum where that sort of thing is tolerated.

SCIENCE said:

Neophyte said:

captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

It may be merely unfortunate coincidence.

Or, it may that, if there’s a bum-side-up worst way of doing something, the Tas govt will not only find it, but adopt it wholeheartedly.

Build a sports stadium on it, and float it off Battery Point.

see yous all thought it was just a stadium but with its sliding polycarbonate roof and island location turns out it’s actually a missile silo and submarine dock

Oh, perfect.

SCIENCE said:

Neophyte said:

captain_spalding said:

ABC News:

It may be merely unfortunate coincidence.

Or, it may that, if there’s a bum-side-up worst way of doing something, the Tas govt will not only find it, but adopt it wholeheartedly.

Build a sports stadium on it, and float it off Battery Point.

see yous all thought it was just a stadium but with its sliding polycarbonate roof and island location turns out it’s actually a missile silo and submarine dock

Won’t interfere with the sub levels for the social housing and nuke shelter?

04 January 2025
Dr Nicholas Gruen questions why community not on board on stadium
Sue Bailey

Macquarie Point Stadium design.

While steering clear of politics, the author of the report into the Macquarie Point stadium has hit out at advocates who tried to “foist it on people”.

Melbourne independent economist Dr Nicholas Gruen sent his 170 page review of the stadium to the government at midnight on January 1.

Business Minister Eric Abetz released the report publicly on Friday morning and said the government was “moving ahead delivering the precinct” but surprisingly no government ministers fronted the media to discuss it.

Dr Gruen said he was disappointed he was not told the report was going to be released.

“I’m not trying to say what the government should or shouldn’t do,” he said.

“One of the things that I was told is that the government released the report to initiate the discussion.

“So a question is, well, why don’t they participate in it?”
Dr Nicholas Gruen. Picture: Supplied.
Dr Nicholas Gruen. Picture: Supplied.

Asked if he believed the stadium would be built Dr Gruen said: “I don’t know.

“I do think that those people who want the stadium have done themselves and their cause no service by trying to foist it on people.

“They needed to take their time and get the community on board and they’re not doing that. “They’re risking the very thing that they claim to want most.”

Dr Gruen said in his work he was used to his efforts sometimes “being wasted”.

“You produce the best output you can, and then it’s in other people’s hands.

“I also maybe a bit unusual in that I kind of feel for a lot for these politicians, because they’ve got these basically ridiculous roles to play, where one side says how great everything is, and the other side says how terrible everything is, and they’re kind of caught in the middle.

“They have to do what they have to do, and I’m doing what I was asked to do.”

In a statement Mr Abetz said: “The transformation of Macquarie Point will shape Tasmania for generations, and unlock decades of investment, jobs, and opportunity.”

Dr Gruen is a prominent economist and visiting professor at King’s College London’s policy institute.

He comes from a family of economists, is a graduate of the University of Melbourne’s law school and has a PhD from the Australian National University.

susan.bailey@news.com.au

Deidre Chambers!

ethanolamine

‘Sabotaged’: Tony Abbott claims his government was ‘thwarted by leftist establishment’

Tony Abbott has blamed “unelected and unaccountable” Canberra officials for his government’s failure, claiming that he was “thwarted by a leftist establishment” and his ministers “captured” bureaucrats.

The former Prime Minister, who was elected in 2013 but was ousted by Malcolm Turnbull in a 2015 leadership spill, has reflected on what he would have done differently if given a second chance.

Writing in Canadian newspaper National Post on Thursday, Mr Abbott urged Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre — who is tipped to become Canada’s next Prime Minister replacing the deeply unpopular Justin Trudeau at this year’s election — to “avoid the traps my government fell into”.

“Across the Anglosphere, recent conservative governments have tended to be in office but not really in power — either because they lacked an agenda of their own, or because what agenda they had was thwarted by a leftist establishment,” the former PM said.

“Winning an election on a promise to be different, and subsequently having to make excuses when not enough changes, is the trap to be avoided by every centre-right political movement on the verge of victory.”

Writing in Canadian newspaper National Post on Thursday, Mr Abbott urged Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre — who is tipped to become Canada’s next Prime Minister replacing the deeply unpopular Justin Trudeau at this year’s election — to “avoid the traps my government fell into”.

“Across the Anglosphere, recent conservative governments have tended to be in office but not really in power — either because they lacked an agenda of their own, or because what agenda they had was thwarted by a leftist establishment,” the former PM said.

“Winning an election on a promise to be different, and subsequently having to make excuses when not enough changes, is the trap to be avoided by every centre-right political movement on the verge of victory.”

Mr Abbott said former US President Donald Trump was first elected in 2016 “on a promise to ‘drain the swamp’, but eventually, ‘the swamp’ got him”, while the UK’s Boris Johnson “had the potential to be a great Prime Minister but squandered working people’s support on the altar of climate change-driven policy gimmicks like mandatory electric cars and heat pumps replacing gas boilers”.

Reflecting on his own short-lived Coalition government, Mr Abbott insisted it “started strongly enough by stopping a wave of illegal immigration by small boat and by repealing a carbon tax and a mining tax”.

“But Senate obstruction sabotaged its first, economically reforming budget and internal policy differences then led to a revolving door prime ministership,” he said.

“If the clock could be turned back, I would have insisted that all my frontbenchers provide a detailed blueprint of what needed to change in order to make a difference in their portfolio area, and explain how their proposed changes reflected our ‘smaller government, bigger citizen’ political instincts. I would have insisted that at least a version of their thinking be made public well before an election. That way, the bureaucracy — or at least that section of it still motivated by traditional Westminster ideals of impartial public service — would have had more guidance in policy formation.”

News.com.au thought that was such a valuable piece that it didn’t put it behind a paywall

Ian said:

‘Sabotaged’: Tony Abbott claims his government was ‘thwarted by leftist establishment’

Tony Abbott has blamed “unelected and unaccountable” Canberra officials for his government’s failure, claiming that he was “thwarted by a leftist establishment” and his ministers “captured” bureaucrats.

The former Prime Minister, who was elected in 2013 but was ousted by Malcolm Turnbull in a 2015 leadership spill, has reflected on what he would have done differently if given a second chance.

Writing in Canadian newspaper National Post on Thursday, Mr Abbott urged Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre — who is tipped to become Canada’s next Prime Minister replacing the deeply unpopular Justin Trudeau at this year’s election — to “avoid the traps my government fell into”.

“Across the Anglosphere, recent conservative governments have tended to be in office but not really in power — either because they lacked an agenda of their own, or because what agenda they had was thwarted by a leftist establishment,” the former PM said.

“Winning an election on a promise to be different, and subsequently having to make excuses when not enough changes, is the trap to be avoided by every centre-right political movement on the verge of victory.”

Writing in Canadian newspaper National Post on Thursday, Mr Abbott urged Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre — who is tipped to become Canada’s next Prime Minister replacing the deeply unpopular Justin Trudeau at this year’s election — to “avoid the traps my government fell into”.

“Across the Anglosphere, recent conservative governments have tended to be in office but not really in power — either because they lacked an agenda of their own, or because what agenda they had was thwarted by a leftist establishment,” the former PM said.

“Winning an election on a promise to be different, and subsequently having to make excuses when not enough changes, is the trap to be avoided by every centre-right political movement on the verge of victory.”

Mr Abbott said former US President Donald Trump was first elected in 2016 “on a promise to ‘drain the swamp’, but eventually, ‘the swamp’ got him”, while the UK’s Boris Johnson “had the potential to be a great Prime Minister but squandered working people’s support on the altar of climate change-driven policy gimmicks like mandatory electric cars and heat pumps replacing gas boilers”.

Reflecting on his own short-lived Coalition government, Mr Abbott insisted it “started strongly enough by stopping a wave of illegal immigration by small boat and by repealing a carbon tax and a mining tax”.

“But Senate obstruction sabotaged its first, economically reforming budget and internal policy differences then led to a revolving door prime ministership,” he said.

“If the clock could be turned back, I would have insisted that all my frontbenchers provide a detailed blueprint of what needed to change in order to make a difference in their portfolio area, and explain how their proposed changes reflected our ‘smaller government, bigger citizen’ political instincts. I would have insisted that at least a version of their thinking be made public well before an election. That way, the bureaucracy — or at least that section of it still motivated by traditional Westminster ideals of impartial public service — would have had more guidance in policy formation.”

News.com.au thought that was such a valuable piece that it didn’t put it behind a paywall

Tell him to stick a raw onion up his bum-bum.

I am loath to make any remarks of any kind on anything to do with Australian politics, as it invariably causes something to happen.

captain_spalding said:

I am loath to make any remarks of any kind on anything to do with Australian politics, as it invariably causes something to happen.

Something that threatens the very fabric of space and time?

Ian said:

‘Sabotaged’: Tony Abbott claims his government was ‘thwarted by leftist establishment’

Tony Abbott has blamed “unelected and unaccountable” Canberra officials for his government’s failure, claiming that he was “thwarted by a leftist establishment” and his ministers “captured” bureaucrats.

The former Prime Minister, who was elected in 2013 but was ousted by Malcolm Turnbull in a 2015 leadership spill, has reflected on what he would have done differently if given a second chance.

Writing in Canadian newspaper National Post on Thursday, Mr Abbott urged Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre — who is tipped to become Canada’s next Prime Minister replacing the deeply unpopular Justin Trudeau at this year’s election — to “avoid the traps my government fell into”.

“Across the Anglosphere, recent conservative governments have tended to be in office but not really in power — either because they lacked an agenda of their own, or because what agenda they had was thwarted by a leftist establishment,” the former PM said.

“Winning an election on a promise to be different, and subsequently having to make excuses when not enough changes, is the trap to be avoided by every centre-right political movement on the verge of victory.”

Writing in Canadian newspaper National Post on Thursday, Mr Abbott urged Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre — who is tipped to become Canada’s next Prime Minister replacing the deeply unpopular Justin Trudeau at this year’s election — to “avoid the traps my government fell into”.

“Across the Anglosphere, recent conservative governments have tended to be in office but not really in power — either because they lacked an agenda of their own, or because what agenda they had was thwarted by a leftist establishment,” the former PM said.

“Winning an election on a promise to be different, and subsequently having to make excuses when not enough changes, is the trap to be avoided by every centre-right political movement on the verge of victory.”

Mr Abbott said former US President Donald Trump was first elected in 2016 “on a promise to ‘drain the swamp’, but eventually, ‘the swamp’ got him”, while the UK’s Boris Johnson “had the potential to be a great Prime Minister but squandered working people’s support on the altar of climate change-driven policy gimmicks like mandatory electric cars and heat pumps replacing gas boilers”.

Reflecting on his own short-lived Coalition government, Mr Abbott insisted it “started strongly enough by stopping a wave of illegal immigration by small boat and by repealing a carbon tax and a mining tax”.

“But Senate obstruction sabotaged its first, economically reforming budget and internal policy differences then led to a revolving door prime ministership,” he said.

“If the clock could be turned back, I would have insisted that all my frontbenchers provide a detailed blueprint of what needed to change in order to make a difference in their portfolio area, and explain how their proposed changes reflected our ‘smaller government, bigger citizen’ political instincts. I would have insisted that at least a version of their thinking be made public well before an election. That way, the bureaucracy — or at least that section of it still motivated by traditional Westminster ideals of impartial public service — would have had more guidance in policy formation.”

News.com.au thought that was such a valuable piece that it didn’t put it behind a paywall

Well, it is a load of self-indulgent codswallop.

Bubblecar said:

captain_spalding said:

I am loath to make any remarks of any kind on anything to do with Australian politics, as it invariably causes something to happen.

Something that threatens the very fabric of space and time?

Not as far as i am aware.

captain_spalding said:

Bubblecar said:

captain_spalding said:

I am loath to make any remarks of any kind on anything to do with Australian politics, as it invariably causes something to happen.

Something that threatens the very fabric of space and time?

Not as far as i am aware.

Well there you are then, you are cleared to comment.

captain_spalding said:

I am loath to make any remarks of any kind on anything to do with Australian politics, as it invariably causes something to happen.

Like what?

Bubblecar said:

captain_spalding said:

Bubblecar said:

Something that threatens the very fabric of space and time?

Not as far as i am aware.

Well there you are then, you are cleared to comment.

Thnaks, but the predicability of subsequent events has become so tiresome as to cause me to forbear.

Ian said:

‘Sabotaged’: Tony Abbott claims his government was ‘thwarted by leftist establishment’

Tony Abbott has blamed “unelected and unaccountable” Canberra officials for his government’s failure, claiming that he was “thwarted by a leftist establishment” and his ministers “captured” bureaucrats.

The former Prime Minister, who was elected in 2013 but was ousted by Malcolm Turnbull in a 2015 leadership spill, has reflected on what he would have done differently if given a second chance.

Writing in Canadian newspaper National Post on Thursday, Mr Abbott urged Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre — who is tipped to become Canada’s next Prime Minister replacing the deeply unpopular Justin Trudeau at this year’s election — to “avoid the traps my government fell into”.

“Across the Anglosphere, recent conservative governments have tended to be in office but not really in power — either because they lacked an agenda of their own, or because what agenda they had was thwarted by a leftist establishment,” the former PM said.

“Winning an election on a promise to be different, and subsequently having to make excuses when not enough changes, is the trap to be avoided by every centre-right political movement on the verge of victory.”

Writing in Canadian newspaper National Post on Thursday, Mr Abbott urged Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre — who is tipped to become Canada’s next Prime Minister replacing the deeply unpopular Justin Trudeau at this year’s election — to “avoid the traps my government fell into”.

“Across the Anglosphere, recent conservative governments have tended to be in office but not really in power — either because they lacked an agenda of their own, or because what agenda they had was thwarted by a leftist establishment,” the former PM said.

“Winning an election on a promise to be different, and subsequently having to make excuses when not enough changes, is the trap to be avoided by every centre-right political movement on the verge of victory.”

Mr Abbott said former US President Donald Trump was first elected in 2016 “on a promise to ‘drain the swamp’, but eventually, ‘the swamp’ got him”, while the UK’s Boris Johnson “had the potential to be a great Prime Minister but squandered working people’s support on the altar of climate change-driven policy gimmicks like mandatory electric cars and heat pumps replacing gas boilers”.

Reflecting on his own short-lived Coalition government, Mr Abbott insisted it “started strongly enough by stopping a wave of illegal immigration by small boat and by repealing a carbon tax and a mining tax”.

“But Senate obstruction sabotaged its first, economically reforming budget and internal policy differences then led to a revolving door prime ministership,” he said.

“If the clock could be turned back, I would have insisted that all my frontbenchers provide a detailed blueprint of what needed to change in order to make a difference in their portfolio area, and explain how their proposed changes reflected our ‘smaller government, bigger citizen’ political instincts. I would have insisted that at least a version of their thinking be made public well before an election. That way, the bureaucracy — or at least that section of it still motivated by traditional Westminster ideals of impartial public service — would have had more guidance in policy formation.”

News.com.au thought that was such a valuable piece that it didn’t put it behind a paywall

Malcolm Farr responded..

Sorry Tony, but the only person you have to blame for being booted out of office is yourself

The excuses tumbled over each other as our former prime minister, Tony Abbott, gave his analysis of the failures of conservative governments including, of course, his own. Saboteurs were out to get him, not least such forces as the “tyranny of officialdom”, as the headline on an Abbott blame-shedding article put it in Monday’s The Australian.

But democratically elected members of parliament also done him in, including fellow Liberals.

The pleading for political innocence and victimhood may amuse some who believe Abbott is deeply in debt to fellow Liberal Scott Morrison for relieving him of the title of worst Australian prime minister of the modern era.

From 2013 to 2015, many Australians carried the thought, “What’s Abbott going to do next?” It was a sense of apprehension about the actions of a PM who thought giving the late Prince Philip a knighthood would be a popular move, and who threatened to “shirt-front” Russian president Vladimir Putin – but didn’t.

Meanwhile, there was the running sideshow of Abbott-isms. Remember the “suppository of wisdom”? And it seemed – incorrectly – that he had dismissed a soldier’s death in Afghanistan with a crude “shit happens”.

Political misery sufferers can seek to join equally unhappy company to reinforce claims of being badly done by.

Abbott’s list of enemies was first outlined in a speech last week to conservatives in Canada – or “Canadia” as he once accidentally but memorably re-labeled the country.

It was an opportunity for Abbott to not only claim victimhood but give it international status. He could rank himself with other leaders whose quest for glory he considered had been violated by public servants and “the establishment”— Donald Trump and Britain’s Boris Johnson.

He wrote: “Boris Johnson had the potential to be a great prime minister but squandered working people’s support on the altar of climate change-driven policy gimmicks, such as mandatory electric cars and heat pumps replacing gas boilers.”

But Tories kicked out Johnson, who had riled voters with his incompetence, hypocrisy and lies – not his climate change policies.

(It’s handy to remember that in 2020 Johnson appointed Abbott as a trade adviser.)

As for the now US president-elect, Abbott had this to say: “In 2016, Donald Trump was first elected on a promise to ‘drain the swamp’ but eventually ‘the swamp’ got him.”

But immediately after this passage he criticised Trump for his ignorance: “As someone who had never been in government and was unfamiliar with Washington, he had instincts rather than well-developed policies or even well-thought-through ideas for how to develop policy.”

Well, that’s OK then.

In another contestable historical outlook, Abbott said: “The Australian centre-right Liberal-National Coalition government that I led into office in 2013 started strongly enough by stopping a wave of illegal immigration by small boat and by repealing a carbon tax and a mining tax.”

“But Senate obstruction sabotaged its first economically reforming budget and internal policy differences then led to a revolving door prime ministership,” Abbott recalled.

“If the clock could be turned back, I would have insisted that all my frontbenchers provide a detailed blueprint of what needed to change in order to make a difference in their portfolio area, and explain how their proposed changes reflected our ‘smaller government, bigger citizen’ political instincts”.

So, like Trump, the basis of his government was instinct, but if he had his time again he would, again like Trump, produce concepts rather than detailed policy. And as Trump has done, Abbott would get right-wing thinktanks to fill his empty policy coffers.

Few prime ministers have been given the job with such enthusiasm, and then proceeded to dissipate that support so quickly.

After two messy years, Abbott’s colleagues wanted him out, and they replaced him with Malcolm Turnbull.

Then the voters in 2019 rejected Abbott in the seat of Warringah, picking independent and former Olympic skier Zali Steggall. It was the first time the Liberals had lost the seat.

Tony Abbott’s problem in office was not that his policies were frustrated by enemies. The problem was they were unpopular policies relying on severity of purpose. More kick and gouge than encourage and comfort.

Despite his claim that the big kids picked on him, Abbott got much of his priorities through: trade pacts with Japan, South Korea and China, for example.

But he rejected the “cult” of climate change and carbon pricing, and instead boosted mining; he launched tough budgets, and asked a royal commission to look at trade union corruption. He vigorously opposed same-sex-marriage, which a majority of Australians – and voters in his own electorate – supported.

It wasn’t a deep state or tyrannical public service that brought him down.

Voters had cheered him into office to become their voice. That support collapsed when voters realised he had stopped listening to anything but the cheers.

One consequence of politicians blaming other elements of government for their own failures is that it can encourage people who want to dismantle those elements, many of which help safeguard democracy. We should all take as a warning Trump’s dangerous threat to the US Justice Department – hostile because it has done its job – as one of those consequences.

Ian said:

Ian said:

‘Sabotaged’: Tony Abbott claims his government was ‘thwarted by leftist establishment’

Tony Abbott has blamed “unelected and unaccountable” Canberra officials for his government’s failure, claiming that he was “thwarted by a leftist establishment” and his ministers “captured” bureaucrats.

The former Prime Minister, who was elected in 2013 but was ousted by Malcolm Turnbull in a 2015 leadership spill, has reflected on what he would have done differently if given a second chance.

Writing in Canadian newspaper National Post on Thursday, Mr Abbott urged Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre — who is tipped to become Canada’s next Prime Minister replacing the deeply unpopular Justin Trudeau at this year’s election — to “avoid the traps my government fell into”.

“Across the Anglosphere, recent conservative governments have tended to be in office but not really in power — either because they lacked an agenda of their own, or because what agenda they had was thwarted by a leftist establishment,” the former PM said.

“Winning an election on a promise to be different, and subsequently having to make excuses when not enough changes, is the trap to be avoided by every centre-right political movement on the verge of victory.”

Writing in Canadian newspaper National Post on Thursday, Mr Abbott urged Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre — who is tipped to become Canada’s next Prime Minister replacing the deeply unpopular Justin Trudeau at this year’s election — to “avoid the traps my government fell into”.

“Across the Anglosphere, recent conservative governments have tended to be in office but not really in power — either because they lacked an agenda of their own, or because what agenda they had was thwarted by a leftist establishment,” the former PM said.

“Winning an election on a promise to be different, and subsequently having to make excuses when not enough changes, is the trap to be avoided by every centre-right political movement on the verge of victory.”

Mr Abbott said former US President Donald Trump was first elected in 2016 “on a promise to ‘drain the swamp’, but eventually, ‘the swamp’ got him”, while the UK’s Boris Johnson “had the potential to be a great Prime Minister but squandered working people’s support on the altar of climate change-driven policy gimmicks like mandatory electric cars and heat pumps replacing gas boilers”.

Reflecting on his own short-lived Coalition government, Mr Abbott insisted it “started strongly enough by stopping a wave of illegal immigration by small boat and by repealing a carbon tax and a mining tax”.

“But Senate obstruction sabotaged its first, economically reforming budget and internal policy differences then led to a revolving door prime ministership,” he said.

“If the clock could be turned back, I would have insisted that all my frontbenchers provide a detailed blueprint of what needed to change in order to make a difference in their portfolio area, and explain how their proposed changes reflected our ‘smaller government, bigger citizen’ political instincts. I would have insisted that at least a version of their thinking be made public well before an election. That way, the bureaucracy — or at least that section of it still motivated by traditional Westminster ideals of impartial public service — would have had more guidance in policy formation.”

News.com.au thought that was such a valuable piece that it didn’t put it behind a paywall

Malcolm Farr responded..

Sorry Tony, but the only person you have to blame for being booted out of office is yourself

The excuses tumbled over each other as our former prime minister, Tony Abbott, gave his analysis of the failures of conservative governments including, of course, his own. Saboteurs were out to get him, not least such forces as the “tyranny of officialdom”, as the headline on an Abbott blame-shedding article put it in Monday’s The Australian.

But democratically elected members of parliament also done him in, including fellow Liberals.

The pleading for political innocence and victimhood may amuse some who believe Abbott is deeply in debt to fellow Liberal Scott Morrison for relieving him of the title of worst Australian prime minister of the modern era.

From 2013 to 2015, many Australians carried the thought, “What’s Abbott going to do next?” It was a sense of apprehension about the actions of a PM who thought giving the late Prince Philip a knighthood would be a popular move, and who threatened to “shirt-front” Russian president Vladimir Putin – but didn’t.

Meanwhile, there was the running sideshow of Abbott-isms. Remember the “suppository of wisdom”? And it seemed – incorrectly – that he had dismissed a soldier’s death in Afghanistan with a crude “shit happens”.

Political misery sufferers can seek to join equally unhappy company to reinforce claims of being badly done by.

Abbott’s list of enemies was first outlined in a speech last week to conservatives in Canada – or “Canadia” as he once accidentally but memorably re-labeled the country.

It was an opportunity for Abbott to not only claim victimhood but give it international status. He could rank himself with other leaders whose quest for glory he considered had been violated by public servants and “the establishment”— Donald Trump and Britain’s Boris Johnson.

He wrote: “Boris Johnson had the potential to be a great prime minister but squandered working people’s support on the altar of climate change-driven policy gimmicks, such as mandatory electric cars and heat pumps replacing gas boilers.”

But Tories kicked out Johnson, who had riled voters with his incompetence, hypocrisy and lies – not his climate change policies.

(It’s handy to remember that in 2020 Johnson appointed Abbott as a trade adviser.)

As for the now US president-elect, Abbott had this to say: “In 2016, Donald Trump was first elected on a promise to ‘drain the swamp’ but eventually ‘the swamp’ got him.”

But immediately after this passage he criticised Trump for his ignorance: “As someone who had never been in government and was unfamiliar with Washington, he had instincts rather than well-developed policies or even well-thought-through ideas for how to develop policy.”

Well, that’s OK then.

In another contestable historical outlook, Abbott said: “The Australian centre-right Liberal-National Coalition government that I led into office in 2013 started strongly enough by stopping a wave of illegal immigration by small boat and by repealing a carbon tax and a mining tax.”

“But Senate obstruction sabotaged its first economically reforming budget and internal policy differences then led to a revolving door prime ministership,” Abbott recalled.

“If the clock could be turned back, I would have insisted that all my frontbenchers provide a detailed blueprint of what needed to change in order to make a difference in their portfolio area, and explain how their proposed changes reflected our ‘smaller government, bigger citizen’ political instincts”.

So, like Trump, the basis of his government was instinct, but if he had his time again he would, again like Trump, produce concepts rather than detailed policy. And as Trump has done, Abbott would get right-wing thinktanks to fill his empty policy coffers.

Few prime ministers have been given the job with such enthusiasm, and then proceeded to dissipate that support so quickly.

After two messy years, Abbott’s colleagues wanted him out, and they replaced him with Malcolm Turnbull.

Then the voters in 2019 rejected Abbott in the seat of Warringah, picking independent and former Olympic skier Zali Steggall. It was the first time the Liberals had lost the seat.

Tony Abbott’s problem in office was not that his policies were frustrated by enemies. The problem was they were unpopular policies relying on severity of purpose. More kick and gouge than encourage and comfort.

Despite his claim that the big kids picked on him, Abbott got much of his priorities through: trade pacts with Japan, South Korea and China, for example.

But he rejected the “cult” of climate change and carbon pricing, and instead boosted mining; he launched tough budgets, and asked a royal commission to look at trade union corruption. He vigorously opposed same-sex-marriage, which a majority of Australians – and voters in his own electorate – supported.

It wasn’t a deep state or tyrannical public service that brought him down.

Voters had cheered him into office to become their voice. That support collapsed when voters realised he had stopped listening to anything but the cheers.

One consequence of politicians blaming other elements of government for their own failures is that it can encourage people who want to dismantle those elements, many of which help safeguard democracy. We should all take as a warning Trump’s dangerous threat to the US Justice Department – hostile because it has done its job – as one of those consequences.

So glad i never said any of that, although some of it had occurred to me.

But (and let the record show it) i never said any of it.

captain_spalding said:

Ian said:

Ian said:

‘Sabotaged’: Tony Abbott claims his government was ‘thwarted by leftist establishment’

Tony Abbott has blamed “unelected and unaccountable” Canberra officials for his government’s failure, claiming that he was “thwarted by a leftist establishment” and his ministers “captured” bureaucrats.

The former Prime Minister, who was elected in 2013 but was ousted by Malcolm Turnbull in a 2015 leadership spill, has reflected on what he would have done differently if given a second chance.

Writing in Canadian newspaper National Post on Thursday, Mr Abbott urged Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre — who is tipped to become Canada’s next Prime Minister replacing the deeply unpopular Justin Trudeau at this year’s election — to “avoid the traps my government fell into”.

“Across the Anglosphere, recent conservative governments have tended to be in office but not really in power — either because they lacked an agenda of their own, or because what agenda they had was thwarted by a leftist establishment,” the former PM said.

“Winning an election on a promise to be different, and subsequently having to make excuses when not enough changes, is the trap to be avoided by every centre-right political movement on the verge of victory.”

Writing in Canadian newspaper National Post on Thursday, Mr Abbott urged Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre — who is tipped to become Canada’s next Prime Minister replacing the deeply unpopular Justin Trudeau at this year’s election — to “avoid the traps my government fell into”.

“Across the Anglosphere, recent conservative governments have tended to be in office but not really in power — either because they lacked an agenda of their own, or because what agenda they had was thwarted by a leftist establishment,” the former PM said.

“Winning an election on a promise to be different, and subsequently having to make excuses when not enough changes, is the trap to be avoided by every centre-right political movement on the verge of victory.”

Mr Abbott said former US President Donald Trump was first elected in 2016 “on a promise to ‘drain the swamp’, but eventually, ‘the swamp’ got him”, while the UK’s Boris Johnson “had the potential to be a great Prime Minister but squandered working people’s support on the altar of climate change-driven policy gimmicks like mandatory electric cars and heat pumps replacing gas boilers”.

Reflecting on his own short-lived Coalition government, Mr Abbott insisted it “started strongly enough by stopping a wave of illegal immigration by small boat and by repealing a carbon tax and a mining tax”.

“But Senate obstruction sabotaged its first, economically reforming budget and internal policy differences then led to a revolving door prime ministership,” he said.

“If the clock could be turned back, I would have insisted that all my frontbenchers provide a detailed blueprint of what needed to change in order to make a difference in their portfolio area, and explain how their proposed changes reflected our ‘smaller government, bigger citizen’ political instincts. I would have insisted that at least a version of their thinking be made public well before an election. That way, the bureaucracy — or at least that section of it still motivated by traditional Westminster ideals of impartial public service — would have had more guidance in policy formation.”

News.com.au thought that was such a valuable piece that it didn’t put it behind a paywall

Malcolm Farr responded..

Sorry Tony, but the only person you have to blame for being booted out of office is yourself

The excuses tumbled over each other as our former prime minister, Tony Abbott, gave his analysis of the failures of conservative governments including, of course, his own. Saboteurs were out to get him, not least such forces as the “tyranny of officialdom”, as the headline on an Abbott blame-shedding article put it in Monday’s The Australian.

But democratically elected members of parliament also done him in, including fellow Liberals.

The pleading for political innocence and victimhood may amuse some who believe Abbott is deeply in debt to fellow Liberal Scott Morrison for relieving him of the title of worst Australian prime minister of the modern era.

From 2013 to 2015, many Australians carried the thought, “What’s Abbott going to do next?” It was a sense of apprehension about the actions of a PM who thought giving the late Prince Philip a knighthood would be a popular move, and who threatened to “shirt-front” Russian president Vladimir Putin – but didn’t.

Meanwhile, there was the running sideshow of Abbott-isms. Remember the “suppository of wisdom”? And it seemed – incorrectly – that he had dismissed a soldier’s death in Afghanistan with a crude “shit happens”.

Political misery sufferers can seek to join equally unhappy company to reinforce claims of being badly done by.

Abbott’s list of enemies was first outlined in a speech last week to conservatives in Canada – or “Canadia” as he once accidentally but memorably re-labeled the country.

It was an opportunity for Abbott to not only claim victimhood but give it international status. He could rank himself with other leaders whose quest for glory he considered had been violated by public servants and “the establishment”— Donald Trump and Britain’s Boris Johnson.

He wrote: “Boris Johnson had the potential to be a great prime minister but squandered working people’s support on the altar of climate change-driven policy gimmicks, such as mandatory electric cars and heat pumps replacing gas boilers.”

But Tories kicked out Johnson, who had riled voters with his incompetence, hypocrisy and lies – not his climate change policies.

(It’s handy to remember that in 2020 Johnson appointed Abbott as a trade adviser.)

As for the now US president-elect, Abbott had this to say: “In 2016, Donald Trump was first elected on a promise to ‘drain the swamp’ but eventually ‘the swamp’ got him.”

But immediately after this passage he criticised Trump for his ignorance: “As someone who had never been in government and was unfamiliar with Washington, he had instincts rather than well-developed policies or even well-thought-through ideas for how to develop policy.”

Well, that’s OK then.

In another contestable historical outlook, Abbott said: “The Australian centre-right Liberal-National Coalition government that I led into office in 2013 started strongly enough by stopping a wave of illegal immigration by small boat and by repealing a carbon tax and a mining tax.”

“But Senate obstruction sabotaged its first economically reforming budget and internal policy differences then led to a revolving door prime ministership,” Abbott recalled.

“If the clock could be turned back, I would have insisted that all my frontbenchers provide a detailed blueprint of what needed to change in order to make a difference in their portfolio area, and explain how their proposed changes reflected our ‘smaller government, bigger citizen’ political instincts”.

So, like Trump, the basis of his government was instinct, but if he had his time again he would, again like Trump, produce concepts rather than detailed policy. And as Trump has done, Abbott would get right-wing thinktanks to fill his empty policy coffers.

Few prime ministers have been given the job with such enthusiasm, and then proceeded to dissipate that support so quickly.

After two messy years, Abbott’s colleagues wanted him out, and they replaced him with Malcolm Turnbull.

Then the voters in 2019 rejected Abbott in the seat of Warringah, picking independent and former Olympic skier Zali Steggall. It was the first time the Liberals had lost the seat.

Tony Abbott’s problem in office was not that his policies were frustrated by enemies. The problem was they were unpopular policies relying on severity of purpose. More kick and gouge than encourage and comfort.

Despite his claim that the big kids picked on him, Abbott got much of his priorities through: trade pacts with Japan, South Korea and China, for example.

But he rejected the “cult” of climate change and carbon pricing, and instead boosted mining; he launched tough budgets, and asked a royal commission to look at trade union corruption. He vigorously opposed same-sex-marriage, which a majority of Australians – and voters in his own electorate – supported.

It wasn’t a deep state or tyrannical public service that brought him down.

Voters had cheered him into office to become their voice. That support collapsed when voters realised he had stopped listening to anything but the cheers.

One consequence of politicians blaming other elements of government for their own failures is that it can encourage people who want to dismantle those elements, many of which help safeguard democracy. We should all take as a warning Trump’s dangerous threat to the US Justice Department – hostile because it has done its job – as one of those consequences.

So glad i never said any of that, although some of it had occurred to me.

But (and let the record show it) i never said any of it.

I did at least read it.

They gave Abbott so many chances that it became a joke

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

Ian said:

Malcolm Farr responded..

Sorry Tony, but the only person you have to blame for being booted out of office is yourself

The excuses tumbled over each other as our former prime minister, Tony Abbott, gave his analysis of the failures of conservative governments including, of course, his own. Saboteurs were out to get him, not least such forces as the “tyranny of officialdom”, as the headline on an Abbott blame-shedding article put it in Monday’s The Australian.

But democratically elected members of parliament also done him in, including fellow Liberals.

The pleading for political innocence and victimhood may amuse some who believe Abbott is deeply in debt to fellow Liberal Scott Morrison for relieving him of the title of worst Australian prime minister of the modern era.

From 2013 to 2015, many Australians carried the thought, “What’s Abbott going to do next?” It was a sense of apprehension about the actions of a PM who thought giving the late Prince Philip a knighthood would be a popular move, and who threatened to “shirt-front” Russian president Vladimir Putin – but didn’t.

Meanwhile, there was the running sideshow of Abbott-isms. Remember the “suppository of wisdom”? And it seemed – incorrectly – that he had dismissed a soldier’s death in Afghanistan with a crude “shit happens”.

Political misery sufferers can seek to join equally unhappy company to reinforce claims of being badly done by.

Abbott’s list of enemies was first outlined in a speech last week to conservatives in Canada – or “Canadia” as he once accidentally but memorably re-labeled the country.

It was an opportunity for Abbott to not only claim victimhood but give it international status. He could rank himself with other leaders whose quest for glory he considered had been violated by public servants and “the establishment”— Donald Trump and Britain’s Boris Johnson.

He wrote: “Boris Johnson had the potential to be a great prime minister but squandered working people’s support on the altar of climate change-driven policy gimmicks, such as mandatory electric cars and heat pumps replacing gas boilers.”

But Tories kicked out Johnson, who had riled voters with his incompetence, hypocrisy and lies – not his climate change policies.

(It’s handy to remember that in 2020 Johnson appointed Abbott as a trade adviser.)

As for the now US president-elect, Abbott had this to say: “In 2016, Donald Trump was first elected on a promise to ‘drain the swamp’ but eventually ‘the swamp’ got him.”

But immediately after this passage he criticised Trump for his ignorance: “As someone who had never been in government and was unfamiliar with Washington, he had instincts rather than well-developed policies or even well-thought-through ideas for how to develop policy.”

Well, that’s OK then.

In another contestable historical outlook, Abbott said: “The Australian centre-right Liberal-National Coalition government that I led into office in 2013 started strongly enough by stopping a wave of illegal immigration by small boat and by repealing a carbon tax and a mining tax.”

“But Senate obstruction sabotaged its first economically reforming budget and internal policy differences then led to a revolving door prime ministership,” Abbott recalled.

“If the clock could be turned back, I would have insisted that all my frontbenchers provide a detailed blueprint of what needed to change in order to make a difference in their portfolio area, and explain how their proposed changes reflected our ‘smaller government, bigger citizen’ political instincts”.

So, like Trump, the basis of his government was instinct, but if he had his time again he would, again like Trump, produce concepts rather than detailed policy. And as Trump has done, Abbott would get right-wing thinktanks to fill his empty policy coffers.

Few prime ministers have been given the job with such enthusiasm, and then proceeded to dissipate that support so quickly.

After two messy years, Abbott’s colleagues wanted him out, and they replaced him with Malcolm Turnbull.

Then the voters in 2019 rejected Abbott in the seat of Warringah, picking independent and former Olympic skier Zali Steggall. It was the first time the Liberals had lost the seat.

Tony Abbott’s problem in office was not that his policies were frustrated by enemies. The problem was they were unpopular policies relying on severity of purpose. More kick and gouge than encourage and comfort.

Despite his claim that the big kids picked on him, Abbott got much of his priorities through: trade pacts with Japan, South Korea and China, for example.

But he rejected the “cult” of climate change and carbon pricing, and instead boosted mining; he launched tough budgets, and asked a royal commission to look at trade union corruption. He vigorously opposed same-sex-marriage, which a majority of Australians – and voters in his own electorate – supported.

It wasn’t a deep state or tyrannical public service that brought him down.

Voters had cheered him into office to become their voice. That support collapsed when voters realised he had stopped listening to anything but the cheers.

One consequence of politicians blaming other elements of government for their own failures is that it can encourage people who want to dismantle those elements, many of which help safeguard democracy. We should all take as a warning Trump’s dangerous threat to the US Justice Department – hostile because it has done its job – as one of those consequences.

So glad i never said any of that, although some of it had occurred to me.

But (and let the record show it) i never said any of it.

I did at least read it.

so it’s all the red scare shit again

SCIENCE said:

so it’s all the red scare shit again

I dare not comment, for fear of waking the Kraken.

Opinion
Dutton’s nuclear plan will never happen, but it’s still a gem of a policy

Christopher Pyne
Consultant and former minister
January 7, 2025 — 5.00am
Save

James Fenimore Cooper wrote The Last of the Mohicans in 1826. It was made into an incredible film starring the inestimable Daniel Day Lewis in 1992. It tells the story of the last stand of a fictional character, the last of his tribe, against insurmountable odds.

If advocates for new coal-fired power stations were Mohicans, then North Queensland Nationals senator Matt Canavan would be the last of the Mohicans. While I don’t agree with Canavan’s opposition to the move to net zero emissions by 2050, nor his advocacy for new coal-fired power stations, I’ve got to hand it to him – he never gives up!

But his lone stand brings into stark relief an achievement for which Opposition Leader Peter Dutton has attracted little praise – the acceptance by both the Liberal and National parties that indeed the climate is changing, that the human race and its emissions have contributed to this change, and something needs to be done about it.

While this might sound rather obvious, let me tell you, from the end of the Howard government in 2007 (remember, prime minister John Howard had set in train the bones of an emissions trading scheme) to the announcement by the Coalition party room that it would embrace nuclear power in early 2024, a number of Liberal Party leaders fell into the ravine brought about by the elements of the Liberal and National party rooms who would not countenance climate change mitigation policies.

This ravine could have swallowed Dutton, too. Thanks to nuclear power, it won’t.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/dutton-s-nuclear-plan-will-never-happen-but-it-s-still-a-gem-of-a-policy-20250102-p5l1qv.html

dv said:

Opinion
Dutton’s nuclear plan will never happen, but it’s still a gem of a policy

Christopher Pyne
Consultant and former minister
January 7, 2025 — 5.00am
Save

James Fenimore Cooper wrote The Last of the Mohicans in 1826. It was made into an incredible film starring the inestimable Daniel Day Lewis in 1992. It tells the story of the last stand of a fictional character, the last of his tribe, against insurmountable odds.

If advocates for new coal-fired power stations were Mohicans, then North Queensland Nationals senator Matt Canavan would be the last of the Mohicans. While I don’t agree with Canavan’s opposition to the move to net zero emissions by 2050, nor his advocacy for new coal-fired power stations, I’ve got to hand it to him – he never gives up!

But his lone stand brings into stark relief an achievement for which Opposition Leader Peter Dutton has attracted little praise – the acceptance by both the Liberal and National parties that indeed the climate is changing, that the human race and its emissions have contributed to this change, and something needs to be done about it.

While this might sound rather obvious, let me tell you, from the end of the Howard government in 2007 (remember, prime minister John Howard had set in train the bones of an emissions trading scheme) to the announcement by the Coalition party room that it would embrace nuclear power in early 2024, a number of Liberal Party leaders fell into the ravine brought about by the elements of the Liberal and National party rooms who would not countenance climate change mitigation policies.

This ravine could have swallowed Dutton, too. Thanks to nuclear power, it won’t.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/dutton-s-nuclear-plan-will-never-happen-but-it-s-still-a-gem-of-a-policy-20250102-p5l1qv.html

I don’t think it is a gem of a policy. It’s a hoodwink.

dv said:

Opinion
Dutton’s nuclear plan will never happen, but it’s still a gem of a policy

Christopher Pyne
Consultant and former minister
January 7, 2025 — 5.00am
Save

James Fenimore Cooper wrote The Last of the Mohicans in 1826. It was made into an incredible film starring the inestimable Daniel Day Lewis in 1992. It tells the story of the last stand of a fictional character, the last of his tribe, against insurmountable odds.

If advocates for new coal-fired power stations were Mohicans, then North Queensland Nationals senator Matt Canavan would be the last of the Mohicans. While I don’t agree with Canavan’s opposition to the move to net zero emissions by 2050, nor his advocacy for new coal-fired power stations, I’ve got to hand it to him – he never gives up!

But his lone stand brings into stark relief an achievement for which Opposition Leader Peter Dutton has attracted little praise – the acceptance by both the Liberal and National parties that indeed the climate is changing, that the human race and its emissions have contributed to this change, and something needs to be done about it.

While this might sound rather obvious, let me tell you, from the end of the Howard government in 2007 (remember, prime minister John Howard had set in train the bones of an emissions trading scheme) to the announcement by the Coalition party room that it would embrace nuclear power in early 2024, a number of Liberal Party leaders fell into the ravine brought about by the elements of the Liberal and National party rooms who would not countenance climate change mitigation policies.

This ravine could have swallowed Dutton, too. Thanks to nuclear power, it won’t.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/dutton-s-nuclear-plan-will-never-happen-but-it-s-still-a-gem-of-a-policy-20250102-p5l1qv.html

Fkn pathetic

Ian said:

dv said:

Opinion
Dutton’s nuclear plan will never happen, but it’s still a gem of a policy

Christopher Pyne
Consultant and former minister
January 7, 2025 — 5.00am
Save

James Fenimore Cooper wrote The Last of the Mohicans in 1826. It was made into an incredible film starring the inestimable Daniel Day Lewis in 1992. It tells the story of the last stand of a fictional character, the last of his tribe, against insurmountable odds.

If advocates for new coal-fired power stations were Mohicans, then North Queensland Nationals senator Matt Canavan would be the last of the Mohicans. While I don’t agree with Canavan’s opposition to the move to net zero emissions by 2050, nor his advocacy for new coal-fired power stations, I’ve got to hand it to him – he never gives up!

But his lone stand brings into stark relief an achievement for which Opposition Leader Peter Dutton has attracted little praise – the acceptance by both the Liberal and National parties that indeed the climate is changing, that the human race and its emissions have contributed to this change, and something needs to be done about it.

While this might sound rather obvious, let me tell you, from the end of the Howard government in 2007 (remember, prime minister John Howard had set in train the bones of an emissions trading scheme) to the announcement by the Coalition party room that it would embrace nuclear power in early 2024, a number of Liberal Party leaders fell into the ravine brought about by the elements of the Liberal and National party rooms who would not countenance climate change mitigation policies.

This ravine could have swallowed Dutton, too. Thanks to nuclear power, it won’t.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/dutton-s-nuclear-plan-will-never-happen-but-it-s-still-a-gem-of-a-policy-20250102-p5l1qv.html

Fkn pathetic

+1

dv said:

Opinion
Dutton’s nuclear plan will never happen, but it’s still a gem of a policy

Christopher Pyne
Consultant and former minister
January 7, 2025 — 5.00am
Save

James Fenimore Cooper wrote The Last of the Mohicans in 1826. It was made into an incredible film starring the inestimable Daniel Day Lewis in 1992. It tells the story of the last stand of a fictional character, the last of his tribe, against insurmountable odds.

If advocates for new coal-fired power stations were Mohicans, then North Queensland Nationals senator Matt Canavan would be the last of the Mohicans. While I don’t agree with Canavan’s opposition to the move to net zero emissions by 2050, nor his advocacy for new coal-fired power stations, I’ve got to hand it to him – he never gives up!

But his lone stand brings into stark relief an achievement for which Opposition Leader Peter Dutton has attracted little praise – the acceptance by both the Liberal and National parties that indeed the climate is changing, that the human race and its emissions have contributed to this change, and something needs to be done about it.

While this might sound rather obvious, let me tell you, from the end of the Howard government in 2007 (remember, prime minister John Howard had set in train the bones of an emissions trading scheme) to the announcement by the Coalition party room that it would embrace nuclear power in early 2024, a number of Liberal Party leaders fell into the ravine brought about by the elements of the Liberal and National party rooms who would not countenance climate change mitigation policies.

This ravine could have swallowed Dutton, too. Thanks to nuclear power, it won’t.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/dutton-s-nuclear-plan-will-never-happen-but-it-s-still-a-gem-of-a-policy-20250102-p5l1qv.html

All I can say about that is:

hmmmm.

I don’t think it is at all likely that Dutton will lose his seat. His standing with the voting public has improved greatly over the last three years. Immediately after the last election he was polling at 25% in the “preferred PM”: he is now at 39%.
I’m not expecting the Libs to win this one but I do think they’ll pick up at least ten seats.

dv said:

I don’t think it is at all likely that Dutton will lose his seat. His standing with the voting public has improved greatly over the last three years. Immediately after the last election he was polling at 25% in the “preferred PM”: he is now at 39%.
I’m not expecting the Libs to win this one but I do think they’ll pick up at least ten seats.

bloody doomsayer!!!

dv said:

I don’t think it is at all likely that Dutton will lose his seat. His standing with the voting public has improved greatly over the last three years. Immediately after the last election he was polling at 25% in the “preferred PM”: he is now at 39%.
I’m not expecting the Libs to win this one but I do think they’ll pick up at least ten seats.

I really don’t think the preferred PM poll is worth anything. Very often the LOTO lags behind right up until election day, even if the party goes on to win. It does not seem to be a handicap to winning an election.

dv said:

I don’t think it is at all likely that Dutton will lose his seat. His standing with the voting public has improved greatly over the last three years. Immediately after the last election he was polling at 25% in the “preferred PM”: he is now at 39%.
I’m not expecting the Libs to win this one but I do think they’ll pick up at least ten seats.

I thought you’d be giving psephology away after the US election.

Ian said:

dv said:

I don’t think it is at all likely that Dutton will lose his seat. His standing with the voting public has improved greatly over the last three years. Immediately after the last election he was polling at 25% in the “preferred PM”: he is now at 39%.
I’m not expecting the Libs to win this one but I do think they’ll pick up at least ten seats.

I thought you’d be giving psephology away after the US election.

..Big Nose.

party_pants said:

dv said:

I don’t think it is at all likely that Dutton will lose his seat. His standing with the voting public has improved greatly over the last three years. Immediately after the last election he was polling at 25% in the “preferred PM”: he is now at 39%.
I’m not expecting the Libs to win this one but I do think they’ll pick up at least ten seats.

I really don’t think the preferred PM poll is worth anything. Very often the LOTO lags behind right up until election day, even if the party goes on to win. It does not seem to be a handicap to winning an election.

It’s ‘the Alan Jones strategy’.

The polls (or Jones) are/were seen by politicians as relevant and influential because the people who run/ran the scam (poll companies/Jones) tell/told the politicians that they’re relevant and influential.

Ian said:

dv said:

I don’t think it is at all likely that Dutton will lose his seat. His standing with the voting public has improved greatly over the last three years. Immediately after the last election he was polling at 25% in the “preferred PM”: he is now at 39%.
I’m not expecting the Libs to win this one but I do think they’ll pick up at least ten seats.

I thought you’d be giving psephology away after the US election.

Ha!

Speaking of Alan Jones…

…does anyone know where he is?

He was all over the news there, for a minute, but nary a word lately.

Is it possible that he’s been taught sufficient of a lesson, and it’s all been made to go away (as long as he behaves)?

Or is it just the glacial pace of the legal system?

captain_spalding said:

Speaking of Alan Jones…

…does anyone know where he is?

He was all over the news there, for a minute, but nary a word lately.

Is it possible that he’s been taught sufficient of a lesson, and it’s all been made to go away (as long as he behaves)?

Or is it just the glacial pace of the legal system?

Quite simple, he has been charged so he (nor others) is not allowed to say much in public which might have the effect of tainting the opinion of a potential jury. You can go to jail for contempt of court for attempting to sway public opinion before the trial.

There is a long-standing legal tradition that juries should decide the case on its own merits and not carry any pre-conceived ideas into the trial. Or at least to keep such things to a minimum.

captain_spalding said:

Speaking of Alan Jones…

…does anyone know where he is?

He was all over the news there, for a minute, but nary a word lately.

Is it possible that he’s been taught sufficient of a lesson, and it’s all been made to go away (as long as he behaves)?

Or is it just the glacial pace of the legal system?

I think the charges are serious enough it goes up to District Court.

If it works the same way as WA he appears in Magistrates Court.
I assume he pleads not guilty and it goes to trial.
They work out how long a trial may take and allocate time for it.
This is probably mid year.
If found guilty he would be remanded off for sentencing
Possible in custody but more likely perhaps on home detention.
The courts unlike the US courts would treat him as just another child sex offender.
The courts may order specialists reports which pushes the sentencing date further out.

party_pants said:

Or at least to keep such things to a minimum.

…with that minimum being decided upon by Rupert Murdoch?

Cymek said:

captain_spalding said:

Speaking of Alan Jones…

…does anyone know where he is?

He was all over the news there, for a minute, but nary a word lately.

Is it possible that he’s been taught sufficient of a lesson, and it’s all been made to go away (as long as he behaves)?

Or is it just the glacial pace of the legal system?

I think the charges are serious enough it goes up to District Court.

If it works the same way as WA he appears in Magistrates Court.
I assume he pleads not guilty and it goes to trial.
They work out how long a trial may take and allocate time for it.
This is probably mid year.
If found guilty he would be remanded off for sentencing
Possible in custody but more likely perhaps on home detention.
The courts unlike the US courts would treat him as just another child sex offender.
The courts may order specialists reports which pushes the sentencing date further out.

Pleading not guilty also means he doesn’t get a sentence reduction if found guilty.

Cymek said:

Cymek said:

captain_spalding said:

Speaking of Alan Jones…

…does anyone know where he is?

He was all over the news there, for a minute, but nary a word lately.

Is it possible that he’s been taught sufficient of a lesson, and it’s all been made to go away (as long as he behaves)?

Or is it just the glacial pace of the legal system?

I think the charges are serious enough it goes up to District Court.

If it works the same way as WA he appears in Magistrates Court.
I assume he pleads not guilty and it goes to trial.
They work out how long a trial may take and allocate time for it.
This is probably mid year.
If found guilty he would be remanded off for sentencing
Possible in custody but more likely perhaps on home detention.
The courts unlike the US courts would treat him as just another child sex offender.
The courts may order specialists reports which pushes the sentencing date further out.

Pleading not guilty also means he doesn’t get a sentence reduction if found guilty.

Reckon he’s too well connected to do any jail time unfortunately.

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

Or at least to keep such things to a minimum.

…with that minimum being decided upon by Rupert Murdoch?

No. By the courts.

It is impossible to find any jury who have never heard of Alan Jones, or any other celebrity defendant. But efforts should and will be made to keep the details of the case, or internet sleuths discussing the ins and outs of it, out of the public domain. We don’t want jurors turning up to court who have already watched a hundred hours of internet videos discussing the case.

Hence the pre-trial radio silence.

party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

Or at least to keep such things to a minimum.

…with that minimum being decided upon by Rupert Murdoch?

No. By the courts.

It is impossible to find any jury who have never heard of Alan Jones, or any other celebrity defendant. But efforts should and will be made to keep the details of the case, or internet sleuths discussing the ins and outs of it, out of the public domain. We don’t want jurors turning up to court who have already watched a hundred hours of internet videos discussing the case.

Hence the pre-trial radio silence.

I do suggest that, if Rupert decided that his interests trumped those of the defendant, his organs of the media might well adopt an attitude of noble defiance to tyrannical censorship.

captain_spalding said:

party_pants said:

captain_spalding said:

…with that minimum being decided upon by Rupert Murdoch?

No. By the courts.

It is impossible to find any jury who have never heard of Alan Jones, or any other celebrity defendant. But efforts should and will be made to keep the details of the case, or internet sleuths discussing the ins and outs of it, out of the public domain. We don’t want jurors turning up to court who have already watched a hundred hours of internet videos discussing the case.

Hence the pre-trial radio silence.

I do suggest that, if Rupert decided that his interests trumped those of the defendant, his organs of the media might well adopt an attitude of noble defiance to tyrannical censorship.

I don’t think the journos and editors who work for Rupert want to personally risk going to jail for him.

captain_spalding said:

Speaking of Alan Jones…

…does anyone know where he is?

He was all over the news there, for a minute, but nary a word lately.

Is it possible that he’s been taught sufficient of a lesson, and it’s all been made to go away (as long as he behaves)?

Or is it just the glacial pace of the legal system?

Or is it just the glacial pace of the legal system?

This, I’d guess.

Michael V said:

captain_spalding said:

Speaking of Alan Jones…

…does anyone know where he is?

He was all over the news there, for a minute, but nary a word lately.

Is it possible that he’s been taught sufficient of a lesson, and it’s all been made to go away (as long as he behaves)?

Or is it just the glacial pace of the legal system?

Or is it just the glacial pace of the legal system?

This, I’d guess.

The wheels of justice grind slowly, but grind exceedingly fine.

Peak Warming Man said:

Michael V said:

captain_spalding said:

Speaking of Alan Jones…

…does anyone know where he is?

He was all over the news there, for a minute, but nary a word lately.

Is it possible that he’s been taught sufficient of a lesson, and it’s all been made to go away (as long as he behaves)?

Or is it just the glacial pace of the legal system?

Or is it just the glacial pace of the legal system?

This, I’d guess.

The wheels of justice grind slowly, but grind exceedingly fine.

They could opt for a Judge only trial I think

Peak Warming Man said:

Michael V said:

captain_spalding said:

Speaking of Alan Jones…

…does anyone know where he is?

He was all over the news there, for a minute, but nary a word lately.

Is it possible that he’s been taught sufficient of a lesson, and it’s all been made to go away (as long as he behaves)?

Or is it just the glacial pace of the legal system?

Or is it just the glacial pace of the legal system?

This, I’d guess.

The wheels of justice grind slowly, but grind exceedingly fine.

The parrot (to use a sobriquet) doesn’t always make sense, but he can talk good like.

Peak Warming Man said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Michael V said:

Or is it just the glacial pace of the legal system?

This, I’d guess.

The wheels of justice grind slowly, but grind exceedingly fine.

The parrot (to use a sobriquet) doesn’t always make sense, but he can talk good like.

beautiful plumage to boot. pity it is fucking dead!

Bogsnorkler said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Peak Warming Man said:

The wheels of justice grind slowly, but grind exceedingly fine.

The parrot (to use a sobriquet) doesn’t always make sense, but he can talk good like.

beautiful plumage to boot. pity it is fucking dead!

It wouldn’t zoom if you put two hundred and forty thousand volts throug it mate.

Echoes of Trumpianism’ already in Australia through opposition: Greens

The Greens have claimed “echoes of Trumpianism” are already permeating Australian politics through the opposition party’s rhetoric and policies, as speculation over when the federal election will be held continues.

The party’s acting leader, Sarah Hanson-Young, warned this afternoon big tech companies, including X and Meta, were “sucking up” to the incoming US president-elect, Donald Trump, and could boost their preferred political parties over others in an election campaign.

Overnight, Meta, the parent company of Facebook and Instagram, announced its decision to ditch its independent fact-checkers. Hanson-Young labelled the change a “dangerous move” and “damaging for democracy”.

The South Australian senator has also taken aim at X’s owner, Elon Musk, who has recently come under fire for intervening in UK and US politics. On Wednesday, Hanson-Young said she predicted Musk would “platform Peter Dutton and the Liberal Party above others in the next election” because their policies echoed some of Trump’s own. She said:

“We’ve now got a situation where we’ve got two big tech billionaires, Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk, thinking that they should run the world, that they should dictate what is said, who says it, how loud it is said, and whether it’s truthful … Echoes of Trumpianism are already coming through from the Dutton opposition party and in their election policies.”

Garud

Ian said:

Echoes of Trumpianism’ already in Australia through opposition: Greens

The Greens have claimed “echoes of Trumpianism” are already permeating Australian politics through the opposition party’s rhetoric and policies, as speculation over when the federal election will be held continues.

The party’s acting leader, Sarah Hanson-Young, warned this afternoon big tech companies, including X and Meta, were “sucking up” to the incoming US president-elect, Donald Trump, and could boost their preferred political parties over others in an election campaign.

Overnight, Meta, the parent company of Facebook and Instagram, announced its decision to ditch its independent fact-checkers. Hanson-Young labelled the change a “dangerous move” and “damaging for democracy”.

The South Australian senator has also taken aim at X’s owner, Elon Musk, who has recently come under fire for intervening in UK and US politics. On Wednesday, Hanson-Young said she predicted Musk would “platform Peter Dutton and the Liberal Party above others in the next election” because their policies echoed some of Trump’s own. She said:

“We’ve now got a situation where we’ve got two big tech billionaires, Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk, thinking that they should run the world, that they should dictate what is said, who says it, how loud it is said, and whether it’s truthful … Echoes of Trumpianism are already coming through from the Dutton opposition party and in their election policies.”

Garud

Dutton is not cray-cray enough for them. The interference so far in the UK (which isn’t due an election for another 4 & half years) has been to promote Tommy Robinson to take over the leadership of Reform UK, telling Farage he should resign. Robinson is currently in jail, and the Reform Party is trying to distance itself from him.

I don’t know if Australia has any party or “politicians” that fit the right kind of crazy.

Bear in mind that you can’t copy & paste “America First” MAGA stuff into Australia without coming over as being a traitor. We are not Americans so why should we be interested in “some other country first”? Having a real Nationalist Australia movement would inevitably be hostile to the US.

Peak Warming Man said:

Bogsnorkler said:

Peak Warming Man said:

The parrot (to use a sobriquet) doesn’t always make sense, but he can talk good like.

beautiful plumage to boot. pity it is fucking dead!

It wouldn’t zoom if you put two hundred and forty thousand volts throug it mate.

across it! amps go through, volts go across.

party_pants said:

Ian said:

Echoes of Trumpianism’ already in Australia through opposition: Greens

The Greens have claimed “echoes of Trumpianism” are already permeating Australian politics through the opposition party’s rhetoric and policies, as speculation over when the federal election will be held continues.

The party’s acting leader, Sarah Hanson-Young, warned this afternoon big tech companies, including X and Meta, were “sucking up” to the incoming US president-elect, Donald Trump, and could boost their preferred political parties over others in an election campaign.

Overnight, Meta, the parent company of Facebook and Instagram, announced its decision to ditch its independent fact-checkers. Hanson-Young labelled the change a “dangerous move” and “damaging for democracy”.

The South Australian senator has also taken aim at X’s owner, Elon Musk, who has recently come under fire for intervening in UK and US politics. On Wednesday, Hanson-Young said she predicted Musk would “platform Peter Dutton and the Liberal Party above others in the next election” because their policies echoed some of Trump’s own. She said:

“We’ve now got a situation where we’ve got two big tech billionaires, Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk, thinking that they should run the world, that they should dictate what is said, who says it, how loud it is said, and whether it’s truthful … Echoes of Trumpianism are already coming through from the Dutton opposition party and in their election policies.”

Garud

Dutton is not cray-cray enough for them. The interference so far in the UK (which isn’t due an election for another 4 & half years) has been to promote Tommy Robinson to take over the leadership of Reform UK, telling Farage he should resign. Robinson is currently in jail, and the Reform Party is trying to distance itself from him.

I don’t know if Australia has any party or “politicians” that fit the right kind of crazy.

Bear in mind that you can’t copy & paste “America First” MAGA stuff into Australia without coming over as being a traitor. We are not Americans so why should we be interested in “some other country first”? Having a real Nationalist Australia movement would inevitably be hostile to the US.

You’re missing the point.

Dutton is not stupid. He knows that he is in a desperate race for his political life.. probably one and only chance for the top job. He’ll use whatever underhanded tricks he can to win.

ABC Reporter.
Meta chief Mark Zuckerberg declared a “new era” for his company this week, ditching fact checkers and accusing foreign governments of “going after American companies and pushing to censor more” in a bid to ingratiate himself with the incoming president.

Can we fact check that.
Was it in fact to “ingratiate himself with the incoming president”

Ian said:

party_pants said:

Ian said:

Echoes of Trumpianism’ already in Australia through opposition: Greens

The Greens have claimed “echoes of Trumpianism” are already permeating Australian politics through the opposition party’s rhetoric and policies, as speculation over when the federal election will be held continues.

The party’s acting leader, Sarah Hanson-Young, warned this afternoon big tech companies, including X and Meta, were “sucking up” to the incoming US president-elect, Donald Trump, and could boost their preferred political parties over others in an election campaign.

Overnight, Meta, the parent company of Facebook and Instagram, announced its decision to ditch its independent fact-checkers. Hanson-Young labelled the change a “dangerous move” and “damaging for democracy”.

The South Australian senator has also taken aim at X’s owner, Elon Musk, who has recently come under fire for intervening in UK and US politics. On Wednesday, Hanson-Young said she predicted Musk would “platform Peter Dutton and the Liberal Party above others in the next election” because their policies echoed some of Trump’s own. She said:

“We’ve now got a situation where we’ve got two big tech billionaires, Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk, thinking that they should run the world, that they should dictate what is said, who says it, how loud it is said, and whether it’s truthful … Echoes of Trumpianism are already coming through from the Dutton opposition party and in their election policies.”

Garud

Dutton is not cray-cray enough for them. The interference so far in the UK (which isn’t due an election for another 4 & half years) has been to promote Tommy Robinson to take over the leadership of Reform UK, telling Farage he should resign. Robinson is currently in jail, and the Reform Party is trying to distance itself from him.

I don’t know if Australia has any party or “politicians” that fit the right kind of crazy.

Bear in mind that you can’t copy & paste “America First” MAGA stuff into Australia without coming over as being a traitor. We are not Americans so why should we be interested in “some other country first”? Having a real Nationalist Australia movement would inevitably be hostile to the US.

You’re missing the point.

Dutton is not stupid. He knows that he is in a desperate race for his political life.. probably one and only chance for the top job. He’ll use whatever underhanded tricks he can to win.

Missing the point is my thing.

Peak Warming Man said:

ABC Reporter.
Meta chief Mark Zuckerberg declared a “new era” for his company this week, ditching fact checkers and accusing foreign governments of “going after American companies and pushing to censor more” in a bid to ingratiate himself with the incoming president.

Can we fact check that.
Was it in fact to “ingratiate himself with the incoming president”

I assume its too much effort, costs too much and mostly importantly they don’t care as these social medial platform owners are unlikeable douche bags.

party_pants said:

I really don’t think the preferred PM poll is worth anything.

It’s meaningful in terms of prediction how the party leader will perform in their own electorate, but not of the overall election.

Peak Warming Man said:

ABC Reporter.
Meta chief Mark Zuckerberg declared a “new era” for his company this week, ditching fact checkers and accusing foreign governments of “going after American companies and pushing to censor more” in a bid to ingratiate himself with the incoming president.

Can we fact check that.
Was it in fact to “ingratiate himself with the incoming president”

I think it is all the more reason to ban kids from using it.

Maybe we’ll see a separation of platforms between countries and not a big open free-for-all across the board.

Maybe a Feral Govt owned social media platform for Aus might be launched.

Ian said:

dv said:

I don’t think it is at all likely that Dutton will lose his seat. His standing with the voting public has improved greatly over the last three years. Immediately after the last election he was polling at 25% in the “preferred PM”: he is now at 39%.
I’m not expecting the Libs to win this one but I do think they’ll pick up at least ten seats.

I thought you’d be giving psephology away after the US election.

Why? The US election results were as I predicted and were in line with polls.

dv said:

party_pants said:

I really don’t think the preferred PM poll is worth anything.

It’s meaningful in terms of prediction how the party leader will perform in their own electorate, but not of the overall election.

team sports

party_pants said:

Peak Warming Man said:

ABC Reporter.
Meta chief Mark Zuckerberg declared a “new era” for his company this week, ditching fact checkers and accusing foreign governments of “going after American companies and pushing to censor more” in a bid to ingratiate himself with the incoming president.

Can we fact check that.
Was it in fact to “ingratiate himself with the incoming president”

I think it is all the more reason to ban kids from using it.

Maybe we’ll see a separation of platforms between countries and not a big open free-for-all across the board.

Maybe a Feral Govt owned social media platform for Aus might be launched.

Ha! And they couldn’t be bothered to moderate one tiny science forum, so shut it down…

party_pants said:

Peak Warming Man said:

ABC Reporter.
Meta chief Mark Zuckerberg declared a “new era” for his company this week, ditching fact checkers and accusing foreign governments of “going after American companies and pushing to censor more” in a bid to ingratiate himself with the incoming president.

Can we fact check that.
Was it in fact to “ingratiate himself with the incoming president”

I think it is all the more reason to ban kids from using it.

Maybe we’ll see a separation of platforms between countries and not a big open free-for-all across the board.

Maybe a Feral Govt owned social media platform for Aus might be launched.

I doubt that.

party_pants said:

Ian said:

party_pants said:

Dutton is not cray-cray enough for them. The interference so far in the UK (which isn’t due an election for another 4 & half years) has been to promote Tommy Robinson to take over the leadership of Reform UK, telling Farage he should resign. Robinson is currently in jail, and the Reform Party is trying to distance itself from him.

I don’t know if Australia has any party or “politicians” that fit the right kind of crazy.

Bear in mind that you can’t copy & paste “America First” MAGA stuff into Australia without coming over as being a traitor. We are not Americans so why should we be interested in “some other country first”? Having a real Nationalist Australia movement would inevitably be hostile to the US.

You’re missing the point.

Dutton is not stupid. He knows that he is in a desperate race for his political life.. probably one and only chance for the top job. He’ll use whatever underhanded tricks he can to win.

Missing the point is my thing.

right, we remember when Japan were fascist enemies of fascist Germany and so forth

furious said:

party_pants said:

Peak Warming Man said:

ABC Reporter.
Meta chief Mark Zuckerberg declared a “new era” for his company this week, ditching fact checkers and accusing foreign governments of “going after American companies and pushing to censor more” in a bid to ingratiate himself with the incoming president.

Can we fact check that.
Was it in fact to “ingratiate himself with the incoming president”

I think it is all the more reason to ban kids from using it.

Maybe we’ll see a separation of platforms between countries and not a big open free-for-all across the board.

Maybe a Feral Govt owned social media platform for Aus might be launched.

Ha! And they couldn’t be bothered to moderate one tiny science forum, so shut it down…

If all the politicians and advisers and pundits were forced to close their foreign accounts with Meta and X etc and use the local platform instead it might work.

Ian said:

Echoes of Trumpianism’ already in Australia through opposition: Greens

The Greens have claimed “echoes of Trumpianism” are already permeating Australian politics through the opposition party’s rhetoric and policies, as speculation over when the federal election will be held continues.

oh good only took 8 years for them to catch up this should sort things

party_pants said:

furious said:

party_pants said:

I think it is all the more reason to ban kids from using it.

Maybe we’ll see a separation of platforms between countries and not a big open free-for-all across the board.

Maybe a Feral Govt owned social media platform for Aus might be launched.

Ha! And they couldn’t be bothered to moderate one tiny science forum, so shut it down…

If all the politicians and advisers and pundits were forced to close their foreign accounts with Meta and X etc and use the local platform instead it might work.

Next they’ll be banning men pretending to be women ‘performing’ for little children.

furious said:

party_pants said:

Peak Warming Man said:

ABC Reporter.
Meta chief Mark Zuckerberg declared a “new era” for his company this week, ditching fact checkers and accusing foreign governments of “going after American companies and pushing to censor more” in a bid to ingratiate himself with the incoming president.

Can we fact check that.
Was it in fact to “ingratiate himself with the incoming president”

I think it is all the more reason to ban kids from using it.

Maybe we’ll see a separation of platforms between countries and not a big open free-for-all across the board.

Maybe a Feral Govt owned social media platform for Aus might be launched.

Ha! And they couldn’t be bothered to moderate one tiny science forum, so shut it down…

FTL!!!

Peak Warming Man said:

party_pants said:

furious said:

Ha! And they couldn’t be bothered to moderate one tiny science forum, so shut it down…

If all the politicians and advisers and pundits were forced to close their foreign accounts with Meta and X etc and use the local platform instead it might work.

Next they’ll be banning men pretending to be women ‘performing’ for little children.

then they be banning pedophiles pretending to be priests.

dv said:

Ian said:

dv said:

I don’t think it is at all likely that Dutton will lose his seat. His standing with the voting public has improved greatly over the last three years. Immediately after the last election he was polling at 25% in the “preferred PM”: he is now at 39%.
I’m not expecting the Libs to win this one but I do think they’ll pick up at least ten seats.

I thought you’d be giving psephology away after the US election.

Why? The US election results were as I predicted and were in line with polls.

I seem to remember* a prediction of Trump winning but it being a close run thing, not a runaway win for Dipshit Don.

* I wasn’t taking notes…

Ian said:

dv said:

Ian said:

I thought you’d be giving psephology away after the US election.

Why? The US election results were as I predicted and were in line with polls.

I seem to remember* a prediction of Trump winning but it being a close run thing, not a runaway win for Dipshit Don.

* I wasn’t taking notes…

Well I’m sure you will next time.

Ian said:

dv said:

Ian said:

I thought you’d be giving psephology away after the US election.

Why? The US election results were as I predicted and were in line with polls.

I seem to remember* a prediction of Trump winning but it being a close run thing, not a runaway win for Dipshit Don.

* I wasn’t taking notes…

twasn’t a runaway.

sarahs mum said:

Ian said:

dv said:

Why? The US election results were as I predicted and were in line with polls.

I seem to remember* a prediction of Trump winning but it being a close run thing, not a runaway win for Dipshit Don.

* I wasn’t taking notes…

twasn’t a runaway.

1.5% margin is a landslide

Ian said:

dv said:

Ian said:

I thought you’d be giving psephology away after the US election.

Why? The US election results were as I predicted and were in line with polls.

I seem to remember* a prediction of Trump winning but it being a close run thing, not a runaway win for Dipshit Don.

* I wasn’t taking notes…

Weren’t your predictions similar to these?..

As such, the solution to the problem was not clear. Between 2020 and 2024, a greater number of pollsters tried different ways to recruit participants in an attempt to poll these hard-to-reach individuals. Despite the changes, polls still underestimated Trump’s margin of victory in 2024. The polls aggregated by RealClearPolitics, FiveThirtyEight and Nate Silver’s Silver Bulletin underestimated Trump’s margin of victory at the national level and across all seven swing states.

https://theconversation.com/polling-in-the-age-of-trump-highlights-flawed-methods-and-filtered-realities-243868

Bogsnorkler said:

furious said:

party_pants said:

I think it is all the more reason to ban kids from using it.

Maybe we’ll see a separation of platforms between countries and not a big open free-for-all across the board.

Maybe a Feral Govt owned social media platform for Aus might be launched.

Ha! And they couldn’t be bothered to moderate one tiny science forum, so shut it down…

FTL!!!

but seriously though it does make the communist police statist ban look increasingly like a wise move surely

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has defended his government’s social media ban for under-16s and broader online safety crackdown after Meta chief Mark Zuckerberg pledged to work with Donald Trump to fight “censorship” from governments. The Albanese government is considering options to expand the remit of the eSafety Commissioner to broader forms of hateful or harmful speech, but the timing of those reforms is unclear.

SCIENCE said:

Bogsnorkler said:

furious said:

Ha! And they couldn’t be bothered to moderate one tiny science forum, so shut it down…

FTL!!!

but seriously though it does make the communist police statist ban look increasingly like a wise move surely

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has defended his government’s social media ban for under-16s and broader online safety crackdown after Meta chief Mark Zuckerberg pledged to work with Donald Trump to fight “censorship” from governments. The Albanese government is considering options to expand the remit of the eSafety Commissioner to broader forms of hateful or harmful speech, but the timing of those reforms is unclear.

I can’t see how people use social media was unexpected.
Its was an extension of already existing behaviour with the ability to be anonymous

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

Bogsnorkler said:

FTL!!!

but seriously though it does make the communist police statist ban look increasingly like a wise move surely

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has defended his government’s social media ban for under-16s and broader online safety crackdown after Meta chief Mark Zuckerberg pledged to work with Donald Trump to fight “censorship” from governments. The Albanese government is considering options to expand the remit of the eSafety Commissioner to broader forms of hateful or harmful speech, but the timing of those reforms is unclear.

I can’t see how people use social media was unexpected.
Its was an extension of already existing behaviour with the ability to be anonymous

also true

and this whole idea of fact checking we mean it’sn’t like we ever used it as a source of reliable information

SCIENCE said:

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

but seriously though it does make the communist police statist ban look increasingly like a wise move surely

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has defended his government’s social media ban for under-16s and broader online safety crackdown after Meta chief Mark Zuckerberg pledged to work with Donald Trump to fight “censorship” from governments. The Albanese government is considering options to expand the remit of the eSafety Commissioner to broader forms of hateful or harmful speech, but the timing of those reforms is unclear.

I can’t see how people use social media was unexpected.
Its was an extension of already existing behaviour with the ability to be anonymous

also true

and this whole idea of fact checking we mean it’sn’t like we ever used it as a source of reliable information

In the old days publishers and the media filtered out a lot of stuff and nonsense. to get a story published you had to convince a reporter that you had something important to say, and their editor that it was worth the column inches to print it. Or if you wrote a book you had to convince a publishing house it was worth their time to typeset, print and distribute it. That tends to filter out a lot of crap.

SCIENCE said:

thank fuck for La Niña here anyway

can’t complain

SCIENCE said:

Bogsnorkler said:

furious said:

Ha! And they couldn’t be bothered to moderate one tiny science forum, so shut it down…

FTL!!!

but seriously though it does make the communist police statist ban look increasingly like a wise move surely

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has defended his government’s social media ban for under-16s and broader online safety crackdown after Meta chief Mark Zuckerberg pledged to work with Donald Trump to fight “censorship” from governments. The Albanese government is considering options to expand the remit of the eSafety Commissioner to broader forms of hateful or harmful speech, but the timing of those reforms is unclear.

You couldn’t be serious in a room full of jack-knife eyes.

party_pants said:

SCIENCE said:

Cymek said:

I can’t see how people use social media was unexpected.
Its was an extension of already existing behaviour with the ability to be anonymous

also true

and this whole idea of fact checking we mean it’sn’t like we ever used it as a source of reliable information

In the old days publishers and the media filtered out a lot of stuff and nonsense. to get a story published you had to convince a reporter that you had something important to say, and their editor that it was worth the column inches to print it. Or if you wrote a book you had to convince a publishing house it was worth their time to typeset, print and distribute it. That tends to filter out a lot of crap.

also agree, you wouldn’t get anything like the load of casual bullshit you get now, but certainly it was still no protection against established shismisdisinformation andor state propaganda andor simple personal bias

but even in the early days of Facebook say when was that ever a trustworthy source

Ian said:

SCIENCE said:

Bogsnorkler said:

FTL!!!

but seriously though it does make the communist police statist ban look increasingly like a wise move surely

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has defended his government’s social media ban for under-16s and broader online safety crackdown after Meta chief Mark Zuckerberg pledged to work with Donald Trump to fight “censorship” from governments. The Albanese government is considering options to expand the remit of the eSafety Commissioner to broader forms of hateful or harmful speech, but the timing of those reforms is unclear.

You couldn’t be serious in a room full of jack-knife eyes.

is this some kind of euphemism about Albanese and the inner west

Ian said:

SCIENCE said:

Bogsnorkler said:

FTL!!!

but seriously though it does make the communist police statist ban look increasingly like a wise move surely

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has defended his government’s social media ban for under-16s and broader online safety crackdown after Meta chief Mark Zuckerberg pledged to work with Donald Trump to fight “censorship” from governments. The Albanese government is considering options to expand the remit of the eSafety Commissioner to broader forms of hateful or harmful speech, but the timing of those reforms is unclear.

You couldn’t be serious in a room full of jack-knife eyes.

The censorship they seem to mean isn’t allowing various hate groups to spout nastiness.
Or make people responsible for the reaction or outcome to what they posted.

Cymek said:

Ian said:

SCIENCE said:

but seriously though it does make the communist police statist ban look increasingly like a wise move surely

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has defended his government’s social media ban for under-16s and broader online safety crackdown after Meta chief Mark Zuckerberg pledged to work with Donald Trump to fight “censorship” from governments. The Albanese government is considering options to expand the remit of the eSafety Commissioner to broader forms of hateful or harmful speech, but the timing of those reforms is unclear.

You couldn’t be serious in a room full of jack-knife eyes.

The censorship they seem to mean isn’t allowing various hate groups to spout nastiness.
Or make people responsible for the reaction or outcome to what they posted.

right but that’s the crybully way, these manbabies who haven’t grown out of their toddler mindset yet head up mass influence companies (not an accident, yous all know how toddlers always get what they want) know full well that the real world hurts, consequences are a form of punishment in their minds, why wouldn’t they try to avoid responsibility accountability etcebility

08 January 2025
Labor says $6m local spend on ferries is not enough
David Killick

Labor Leader Dean Winter speaking at the Spirit of Tasmania terminal in Devonport. Picture: Supplied.
Tasmanian businesses have so far received just $6m for providing local content to the new billion-dollar TT-Line ferries build, Labor says.

Opposition leader Dean Winter said it was a far cry from the $100m in local content the government claimed to have secured.

The government has accused Labor of misleading Tasmanians because the boats aren’t finished and the pledge was for “up to” $100m in local content.

An opposition Right to Information request has revealed a detailed breakdown of onshore spending on the new ferries.

In March 2021, then Premier Peter Gutwein and Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Michael Ferguson said the government was “targeting Tasmanian local content of between $50m and $100m across both vessels” with delivery to be in late 2023 and late 2024.

The government says TT-Line’s definition of “local content” includes interstate providers.

“Like so much of the Spirits of Tasmania project, the Liberals have failed to deliver on their $100m promise for local content going on our new ships,” Mr Winter said.

“For years now, the Liberals have been telling Tasmanians that as part of these new ships, there will be $100m worth of local content going into them.

“RTI documents uncovered by Labor show that TT-Line has only spent around $6m and so much of their claimed so called local content has actually been companies from Finland or international companies, rather than Tasmanian firms.

“It’s pretty clear they’re not going to get to their $20m target and the RMC component, the $80m, they’re trying to include things like the engines that were manufactured in Finland.

“Clearly, they haven’t met their promise, and I don’t think they were ever going to make their promise.”
Minister for Transport Eric Abetz said he was confident the targets would be met.

“It’s no surprise Labor would seek to talk down the local content investment and mislead Tasmanians,” he said.

“This is just another political attack from Labor attempting to undermine the project.

“Dozens of Tasmanian businesses have been awarded contracts to provide goods, services and content for the new vessels, and we expect TT-Line to meet its $20m target.

“If Labor did a simple online search they would see the up to $100m of local content in the new Spirits of Tasmania was to be comprised of Tasmanian and Australian content.

“RMC has until the end of the warranty period of Spirit V to satisfy the local content provisions of its contract with TT-Line, then an assessment will be undertaken by TT-Line to validate these purchases for contractual compliance, with penalty provisions in place if requirements are not met.”

Mr Abetz highlighted a number of Tasmanian businesses which had benefited including
Seamaster, Hobart’s Tas Isle Trading and Devonport-based Rapid Supply.
Labor’s RTI list includes equipment including a breathalyser, a holding cell intercom, TVs for the teen gaming lounge and $5,000 worth of hand and body wash.

david.killick@news.com.au

The election season has begun, and Albo’s off to a rocky start. From flying cash and poll slumps to media manipulation and identity politics, we break down the key battles Labor faces against Dutton and a hostile media landscape.

Battle lines are Drawn | The West Report

sarahs mum said:

The election season has begun, and Albo’s off to a rocky start. From flying cash and poll slumps to media manipulation and identity politics, we break down the key battles Labor faces against Dutton and a hostile media landscape.

Battle lines are Drawn | The West Report

We’ve got a state election coming up on the second Saturday in March. I am not going to give any bandwidth to the Fedewral election until after then.

finally someone with a megaphone calling it for what it is

Mr Albanese also shrugged off any threat from US tech billionaire Elon Musk at the coming election, given the close Donald Trump supporter has shown a willingness to attack progressive world leaders on his social media network.

“I’ll stand up for Australia’s national interest and won’t be intimidated by anyone, particularly not in the area of foreign interference.

“Mr Musk has his views.

“What I will do is represent Australia’s national interests without fear or favour. And part of that is making sure that social media is held to account, because social media has a social responsibility.”

Northern Territory
More than 1% of Northern Territory population imprisoned as record jail numbers predicted to climb
Watch houses repurposed as long-term prison cells as Country Liberal government claims ‘such is the nature of the mess we have inherited’

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Ella Archibald-Binge
Thu 9 Jan 2025 01.00 AEDT
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Police watch houses in the Northern Territory are being repurposed as long-term prison cells as record imprisonment numbers push the system to breaking point.

There were 2,613 people locked up in the NT on Tuesday – more than 1% of the territory’s population of 255,100, according to the Department of Corrections.

By contrast, in Western Australia – the state with the next highest imprisonment rate – about 0.2% of the population is behind bars. Data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics shows the NT incarceration rate is more than five times the national average.

If the NT were a country it would have the second-highest incarceration rate in the world, according to data compiled by the World Prison Brief project.

New laws were enacted on Monday to ensure young people and adults who breach bail conditions, commit serious offences or repeatedly offend are not granted bail.

More than 250 people are being held in NT police watch houses, spilling over from overcrowded prisons unable to cope with a surge that is only expected to grow as tough new bail laws take effect this week.

Clancy Dane, the principal lawyer at Territory Criminal Lawyers, said conditions in police watch houses were “appalling”.

“Police watch houses are overcrowded, they’re oppressive, the lights stay on, the noise is constant,” he said. “Prisoners complain that they don’t have privacy when they go to the toilet.

“That’s going to traumatise people … and it’s not going to make us any safer.”

more….
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/jan/09/northern-territory-prison-population-watch-houses

sarahs mum said:

Northern Territory
More than 1% of Northern Territory population imprisoned as record jail numbers predicted to climb
Watch houses repurposed as long-term prison cells as Country Liberal government claims ‘such is the nature of the mess we have inherited’

Follow our Australia news live blog for latest updates
Get our breaking news email, free app or daily news podcast
Ella Archibald-Binge
Thu 9 Jan 2025 01.00 AEDT
Share
Police watch houses in the Northern Territory are being repurposed as long-term prison cells as record imprisonment numbers push the system to breaking point.

There were 2,613 people locked up in the NT on Tuesday – more than 1% of the territory’s population of 255,100, according to the Department of Corrections.

By contrast, in Western Australia – the state with the next highest imprisonment rate – about 0.2% of the population is behind bars. Data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics shows the NT incarceration rate is more than five times the national average.

If the NT were a country it would have the second-highest incarceration rate in the world, according to data compiled by the World Prison Brief project.

New laws were enacted on Monday to ensure young people and adults who breach bail conditions, commit serious offences or repeatedly offend are not granted bail.

More than 250 people are being held in NT police watch houses, spilling over from overcrowded prisons unable to cope with a surge that is only expected to grow as tough new bail laws take effect this week.

Clancy Dane, the principal lawyer at Territory Criminal Lawyers, said conditions in police watch houses were “appalling”.

“Police watch houses are overcrowded, they’re oppressive, the lights stay on, the noise is constant,” he said. “Prisoners complain that they don’t have privacy when they go to the toilet.

“That’s going to traumatise people … and it’s not going to make us any safer.”

more….
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/jan/09/northern-territory-prison-population-watch-houses

LOL

Location Rates Number
El Salvador 1 659 109,519
Cuba 794 90,000
Rwanda 637 89,034
Turkmenistan 576 35,000
United States of America 541 1,808,100
American Samoa (USA) 538 301
Panama 522 23,798
Tonga 516 557
Guam (USA) 475 820
Uruguay 449 15,767

disinformation

SCIENCE said:

disinformation

Is it?

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

disinformation

⚠ sorry this post may contain sarcasm

Is it?

apologies and apologies and disclaimer added

LOL

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-10/are-traffic-controllers-really-paid-200k-per-year/104761918

SCIENCE said:

LOL

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-10/are-traffic-controllers-really-paid-200k-per-year/104761918

A lot of voices coming out of a lot of arses.

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

LOL

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-10/are-traffic-controllers-really-paid-200k-per-year/104761918

A lot of voices coming out of a lot of arses.

How much of that is paid to the bikies as protection money

Cymek said:

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

LOL

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-10/are-traffic-controllers-really-paid-200k-per-year/104761918

A lot of voices coming out of a lot of arses.

How much of that is paid to the bikies as protection money

LOL

LOL

Victoria’s Essential Services Commission has released its draft decision on the minimum rate electricity retailers must pay solar customers for the electricity they export into the grid — known as a feed-in tariff. The ESC has proposed dropping the rate to 0.04 cents per kilowatt hour (kWh) from the current 3.3 cents starting July 1, 2025. The Commission has also recommended a time-varying feed-in tariff, which is a rate that varies depending on the time of day. Those rates range from 0 cents to 7.5 cents per kWh. A varying rate would incentivise solar customers to export electricity when demand is high, rather than when the grid is already saturated with supply. It means customers will earn much less than they have been for supplying electricity to the grid and it could discourage people from installing solar panels and also increase demand for home batteries.

Cymek said:

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

LOL

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-10/are-traffic-controllers-really-paid-200k-per-year/104761918

A lot of voices coming out of a lot of arses.

How much of that is paid to the bikies as protection money

If that article is correct, the actual income for a 36 hour week, 48 weeks a year, is $84,551.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Cymek said:

captain_spalding said:

A lot of voices coming out of a lot of arses.

How much of that is paid to the bikies as protection money

If that article is correct, the actual income for a 36 hour week, 48 weeks a year, is $84,551.

A Queensland traffic controller could earn about $215,000 per year if they worked 12 hours and 12 minutes every weekday with five of those hours being paid at double time for 48 weeks.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Cymek said:

captain_spalding said:

A lot of voices coming out of a lot of arses.

How much of that is paid to the bikies as protection money

If that article is correct, the actual income for a 36 hour week, 48 weeks a year, is $84,551.

So, no threat to MPs in the pay standings, then?

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Cymek said:

How much of that is paid to the bikies as protection money

If that article is correct, the actual income for a 36 hour week, 48 weeks a year, is $84,551.

A Queensland traffic controller could earn about $215,000 per year if they worked 12 hours and 12 minutes every weekday with five of those hours being paid at double time for 48 weeks.

For comparison, the Bingbot says the average salary for a primary school teacher is $95,093 per year.

The Rev Dodgson said:

roughbarked said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

If that article is correct, the actual income for a 36 hour week, 48 weeks a year, is $84,551.

A Queensland traffic controller could earn about $215,000 per year if they worked 12 hours and 12 minutes every weekday with five of those hours being paid at double time for 48 weeks.

For comparison, the Bingbot says the average salary for a primary school teacher is $95,093 per year.

Yeah. :(

Under BPIC, workers can be paid at double time under certain conditions.

Those conditions include night shifts, working out in the rain, with insufficient breaks, or when performing weekend overtime.

So, for example, if a traffic controller was asked to work a split 7.2-hour day shift followed by a 5-hour night shift every weekday without exception, they could earn nearly $215,000 in a year.

It is therefore theoretically possible for a traffic controller to earn $215,000 in a year, but almost impossible in practice.

captain_spalding said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Cymek said:

How much of that is paid to the bikies as protection money

If that article is correct, the actual income for a 36 hour week, 48 weeks a year, is $84,551.

So, no threat to MPs in the pay standings, then?

They’re all on a unity ticket when it comes to pay rises.

Peak Warming Man said:

captain_spalding said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

If that article is correct, the actual income for a 36 hour week, 48 weeks a year, is $84,551.

So, no threat to MPs in the pay standings, then?

They’re all on a unity ticket when it comes to pay rises.

Someone should be along soon to remind me that MPs work long and hardfortheir money, desereve every cent of it, and that i’m just parading my saintliness again.

My recidivism is terrible.

‘…desereve…’?

(Shrugs) given the importance of their work, maybe they should all be on 200 large.

SCIENCE said:

LOL

Victoria’s Essential Services Commission has released its draft decision on the minimum rate electricity retailers must pay solar customers for the electricity they export into the grid — known as a feed-in tariff. The ESC has proposed dropping the rate to 0.04 cents per kilowatt hour (kWh) from the current 3.3 cents starting July 1, 2025. The Commission has also recommended a time-varying feed-in tariff, which is a rate that varies depending on the time of day. Those rates range from 0 cents to 7.5 cents per kWh. A varying rate would incentivise solar customers to export electricity when demand is high, rather than when the grid is already saturated with supply. It means customers will earn much less than they have been for supplying electricity to the grid and it could discourage people from installing solar panels and also increase demand for home batteries.

Stupid Labor

dv said:

SCIENCE said:

LOL

Victoria’s Essential Services Commission has released its draft decision on the minimum rate electricity retailers must pay solar customers for the electricity they export into the grid — known as a feed-in tariff. The ESC has proposed dropping the rate to 0.04 cents per kilowatt hour (kWh) from the current 3.3 cents starting July 1, 2025. The Commission has also recommended a time-varying feed-in tariff, which is a rate that varies depending on the time of day. Those rates range from 0 cents to 7.5 cents per kWh. A varying rate would incentivise solar customers to export electricity when demand is high, rather than when the grid is already saturated with supply. It means customers will earn much less than they have been for supplying electricity to the grid and it could discourage people from installing solar panels and also increase demand for home batteries.

Stupid Labor

Increasing demand for home batteries is a good thing, isn’t it?

I remember years ago people on the old forum thought self employed tradies who charged $90 and hour were putting all that in their pockets. and had no expenses.

dv said:

Is government responsible for individuals crimes anyway

captain_spalding said:

Peak Warming Man said:

captain_spalding said:

So, no threat to MPs in the pay standings, then?

They’re all on a unity ticket when it comes to pay rises.

Someone should be along soon to remind me that MPs work long and hardfortheir money, desereve every cent of it, and that i’m just parading my saintliness again.

My recidivism is terrible.

Thankfully the passive aggressive crap is still more tolerable than your usual bullshit.

Witty Rejoinder said:

captain_spalding said:

Peak Warming Man said:

They’re all on a unity ticket when it comes to pay rises.

Someone should be along soon to remind me that MPs work long and hardfortheir money, desereve every cent of it, and that i’m just parading my saintliness again.

My recidivism is terrible.

Thankfully the passive aggressive crap is still more tolerable than your usual bullshit.

I do my best to please.

11 January 2025
Vica Bayley seeks explanation on why no charges against doctor over death certificates
Sue Bailey

The Tasmanian Greens will seek an explanation as to why police will not pursue criminal charges against a former hospital executive accused of falsifying death certificates.
Police have confirmed there was insufficient evidence for any charges to be laid.
A police spokeswoman said the final report from the Independent Review of Reportable Deaths and Death Reporting Processes was referred to Tasmania Police and other relevant agencies in July 2024.
“Following a review by Tasmania Police and advice from the Director of Public Prosecutions it was determined there was insufficient evidence to proceed with any criminal charges,” she said.
Greens deputy leader Vica Bayley and nurse and whistleblower Amanda Duncan say they are disappointed at the decision.
“We are disappointed for advocates and families of the deceased,” Mr Bayley said.
“We will write to the Minister and follow up with the Police Commissioner to understand this decision, how it was reached and if they consider the issue is now closed.
“At the end of the day, if accountability for these failures doesn’t come through the police and the criminal system, the minister needs to explain where it will occur?”
Ms Duncan told a parliamentary inquiry last year that she had received 11 reports from doctors and nurses that Dr Peter Renshaw, the hospital’s now retired director of medical services, had falsified death certificates in cases that should have been referred to a coroner.
Dr Renshaw said he was pleased with the outcome of the police investigation.
“I continue to strongly maintain that all LGH death certificates issued either by myself or on my advice were clinically appropriate, based on the best available clinical information, and fully cognisant of the requirements of the Registrar of Births, Deaths and Marriages and the Coroners Act,” he said.
Ms Duncan is distressed by the police decision.
“I was one of the individuals who brought forth evidence in the Tasmanian parliament last year, yet I was not engaged at all by Tasmania Police during their investigation.
“In fact, when I attempted to make a formal police report in February 2024, they made no attempt to gather further information which was at hand, in addition to my evidence in Parliament.”
Health Department secretary Dale Webster said the police investigation was conducted independent of the department and random audits being conducted by a senior doctor and nurse would continue.
An independent inquiry last year referred 29 deaths at the LGH to the coroner after it was found a “serious and sustained departure from expected standards”.
The inquiry was established last February to investigate allegations Dr Renshaw failed to report deaths as required under the Coroner’s Act.

susan.bailey@news.com.au

Today’s SMH front page headline:

Dutton says Labor made Australia less safe.

Dutton spewing his usual shit is front page news?

Seriously?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Today’s SMH front page headline:

Dutton says Labor made Australia less safe.

Dutton spewing his usual shit is front page news?

Seriously?

who are the bogey people this time?

From: Allan
Subject: A.Word.A.Day: passing Thought

A THOUGHT FOR TODAY:
A certain kind of rich man afflicted with the symptoms of moral dandyism sooner or later comes to the conclusion that it isn’t enough merely to make money. He feels obliged to hold views, to espouse causes and elect Presidents, to explain to a trembling world how and why the world went wrong. -Lewis H. Lapham, editor and writer (8 Jan 1935-2024)

To what you cited he added a punch line, “The spectacle is nearly always comic.” The quotation is from 1989!

ChrispenEvan said:

From: Allan
Subject: A.Word.A.Day: passing Thought

A THOUGHT FOR TODAY:
A certain kind of rich man afflicted with the symptoms of moral dandyism sooner or later comes to the conclusion that it isn’t enough merely to make money. He feels obliged to hold views, to espouse causes and elect Presidents, to explain to a trembling world how and why the world went wrong. -Lewis H. Lapham, editor and writer (8 Jan 1935-2024)

To what you cited he added a punch line, “The spectacle is nearly always comic.” The quotation is from 1989!

“…nearly always…”

ChrispenEvan said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Today’s SMH front page headline:

Dutton says Labor made Australia less safe.

Dutton spewing his usual shit is front page news?

Seriously?

who are the bogey people this time?

I don’t even know what it means to be a bogey person.

The Rev Dodgson said:

ChrispenEvan said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Today’s SMH front page headline:

Dutton says Labor made Australia less safe.

Dutton spewing his usual shit is front page news?

Seriously?

who are the bogey people this time?

I don’t even know what it means to be a bogey person.

bogeyman
/ˈbəʊɡɪman/
noun
an imaginary evil spirit or being, used to frighten children.
“we kept the blankets pulled over our heads to keep out the bogeyman”
a person or thing that is widely regarded as an object of fear.
“nuclear power is the environmentalists’ bogeyman”

I used the gender neutral term “person” as I didn’t know what subset of humans were responsible for making us less safe.

ChrispenEvan said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

ChrispenEvan said:

who are the bogey people this time?

I don’t even know what it means to be a bogey person.

bogeyman
/ˈbəʊɡɪman/
noun
an imaginary evil spirit or being, used to frighten children.
“we kept the blankets pulled over our heads to keep out the bogeyman”
a person or thing that is widely regarded as an object of fear.
“nuclear power is the environmentalists’ bogeyman”

I used the gender neutral term “person” as I didn’t know what subset of humans were responsible for making us less safe.

I suppose the bogey people are the Labor party then.

But I didn’t read past the headline.

This Clarke & Dawe from 8 years ago (8 years ago!), seems sort of appropriate for now:

Clarke and Dawe – Thank God it couldn’t happen here.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-13/australian-tea-culture-cafes-falling-behind-other-countries/104792524

Australia’s hospitality industry needs better training on tea, experts say

—-

quite so

The Rev Dodgson said:

This Clarke & Dawe from 8 years ago (8 years ago!), seems sort of appropriate for now:

Clarke and Dawe – Thank God it couldn’t happen here.

Thanks for your time tonight
Good to be with you
I’d like to talk about Brexit.
This is big thing for Britain isn’t it?
This is huge yes.
It’s decisive.
This will effect the way not only the British economy
works.
This will effect the social development of Britain as a nation
Can you explain how the current situation developed?
Yes.
In a nutshell, it’s a failure of leadership.
The Prime Minister had a particular view, a particular set of policies, not everyone
in his own party agreed with him…..
This is in Britain
Yes.
There were right wing elements in his own party, and there were opportunists
who would seize on any weakness, and he was under a huge amount of internal
pressure.
A lot of this was leaked to the press.
He was being sabotaged…….
You’re talking about events in Britain
Yes.
The Prime Minister had come from a particular background, he was wealthy, his name had been
mentioned , albeit in relation to the Panama Papers
Hang on, I’m not asking about Australian politics.
I’m asking you about this recent vote in Britain
Yes, that’s what I’m talking about.
The Prime Minister got it wrong.
The whole business of getting people to vote, was a
colossal mistake.
He thought he was going clean them all up, he would carry the day, defeat the opposition,
get rid of the people in his own party who were trying to get rid of him….
No, look, can I just stop you there.
I’ve got you on here to talk about the situation in
Britain
Yes, that’s what I’ describing
You’re supposed to be an expert on what’s just happened in Britain
I teach this at the university
Well can you just please confine yourself to talking about Britain.
I don’t want to know about Australia.
I know what’s just happened in Australia.
I live in Australia
Right.
The Prime Minister made a massive miscalculation by going to a vote.
He was in a worse position AFTER the vote that
he was before it.
And then there’s the Scot problem
The Scott problem?
Yes
The Scott problem in Britain?
Yes.
That’s not going to go away.
That’s been festering for three years
This is hopeless.
How’s the weather?
The weather?
It’s a bit wet and cold.
It was raining earlier
No.
I don’t want to know what’s happening here.
I mean in Britain
I’m taking about Britain
What’s the future for the British economy, do you think
We’re facing some serious issues.
Debt is a big issue here.
The gap between the rich and the poor is widening and this is what
I was talking about earlier.
A lot of people thought the Prime Minister was out of touch.
That’s one of the reasons we got the rest we got
I give up.
I’m asking about Britain!
I’m talking about Britain young man.

SCIENCE said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

This Clarke & Dawe from 8 years ago (8 years ago!), seems sort of appropriate for now:

Clarke and Dawe – Thank God it couldn’t happen here.

Thanks for your time tonight
Good to be with you
I’d like to talk about Brexit.
This is big thing for Britain isn’t it?
This is huge yes.
It’s decisive.
This will effect the way not only the British economy
works.
This will effect the social development of Britain as a nation
Can you explain how the current situation developed?
Yes.
In a nutshell, it’s a failure of leadership.
The Prime Minister had a particular view, a particular set of policies, not everyone
in his own party agreed with him…..
This is in Britain
Yes.
There were right wing elements in his own party, and there were opportunists
who would seize on any weakness, and he was under a huge amount of internal
pressure.
A lot of this was leaked to the press.
He was being sabotaged…….
You’re talking about events in Britain
Yes.
The Prime Minister had come from a particular background, he was wealthy, his name had been
mentioned , albeit in relation to the Panama Papers
Hang on, I’m not asking about Australian politics.
I’m asking you about this recent vote in Britain
Yes, that’s what I’m talking about.
The Prime Minister got it wrong.
The whole business of getting people to vote, was a
colossal mistake.
He thought he was going clean them all up, he would carry the day, defeat the opposition,
get rid of the people in his own party who were trying to get rid of him….
No, look, can I just stop you there.
I’ve got you on here to talk about the situation in
Britain
Yes, that’s what I’ describing
You’re supposed to be an expert on what’s just happened in Britain
I teach this at the university
Well can you just please confine yourself to talking about Britain.
I don’t want to know about Australia.
I know what’s just happened in Australia.
I live in Australia
Right.
The Prime Minister made a massive miscalculation by going to a vote.
He was in a worse position AFTER the vote that
he was before it.
And then there’s the Scot problem
The Scott problem?
Yes
The Scott problem in Britain?
Yes.
That’s not going to go away.
That’s been festering for three years
This is hopeless.
How’s the weather?
The weather?
It’s a bit wet and cold.
It was raining earlier
No.
I don’t want to know what’s happening here.
I mean in Britain
I’m taking about Britain
What’s the future for the British economy, do you think
We’re facing some serious issues.
Debt is a big issue here.
The gap between the rich and the poor is widening and this is what
I was talking about earlier.
A lot of people thought the Prime Minister was out of touch.
That’s one of the reasons we got the rest we got
I give up.
I’m asking about Britain!
I’m talking about Britain young man.

That was quick!

so uh

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-14/sydney-trains-employees-offered-13-per-cent-pay-rise/104812740

less than inflation then which would be 15% nice one

guess that means

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/nsw-health-minister-begs-doctors-to-withdraw-mass-resignations-20250111-p5l3j9.html

this is going to work out well

A draft management document for contingency planning at Prince of Wales Hospital, seen by the Herald, said the impact on its acute care team would be “significant” when the resignations take effect on January 21.

oh interesting isn’t there like a month of notice that has to be given between resignations put in and the final departures, wait shouldn’t this have been in the news all month, oh, oh shit, maybe some powerful people insisted that it can’t be published hey

SCIENCE said:

so uh

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-14/sydney-trains-employees-offered-13-per-cent-pay-rise/104812740

less than inflation then which would be 15% nice one

guess that means

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/nsw-health-minister-begs-doctors-to-withdraw-mass-resignations-20250111-p5l3j9.html

this is going to work out well

A draft management document for contingency planning at Prince of Wales Hospital, seen by the Herald, said the impact on its acute care team would be “significant” when the resignations take effect on January 21.

oh interesting isn’t there like a month of notice that has to be given between resignations put in and the final departures, wait shouldn’t this have been in the news all month, oh, oh shit, maybe some powerful people insisted that it can’t be published hey

LOL

https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/radionational-breakfast/nsw-psychiatrists/104814008

and then to all centrelinkers.

————

only seen this…not a real link.

sarahs mum said:

and then to all centrelinkers.

————

only seen this…not a real link.

Well, there’s a guaranteed vote-loser.

In some electorates, at least.

captain_spalding said:

sarahs mum said:

and then to all centrelinkers.

————

only seen this…not a real link.

Well, there’s a guaranteed vote-loser.

In some electorates, at least.

Gina is really into the idea.

sarahs mum said:

captain_spalding said:

sarahs mum said:

and then to all centrelinkers.

————

only seen this…not a real link.

Well, there’s a guaranteed vote-loser.

In some electorates, at least.

Gina is really into the idea.

Well, it’s dogma, then.

14 January 2025
NSW psychiatrists quit en masse over pay
Federal Health Minister Mark Butler has urged the more than two-thirds of NSW’s public psychiatrists who have handed in their resignations to come back to the negotiating table to avoid “devastating consequences” for patients (The Guardian).
More than 200 of the state’s 295 psychiatrists at NSW’s public hospitals have handed in their resignations, effective from next week, due to concerns about pay and the state of mental healthcare.
The state government has offered a pay rise of 10.5% over three years, less than half the 25% asked for by the doctors.
Butler on Monday urged both parties to “come back to the table and resolve this in the interest of patients”.
The state’s psychiatrists have said they are paid a third less than their interstate colleagues and that many are leaving to join the private sector (City Hub).
According to one agency, NSW Health has offered a “crisis” pay rate of up to $3050 a day along with accommodation and travel allowances to help plug the holes from next week (SMH).

sarahs mum said:

14 January 2025
NSW psychiatrists quit en masse over pay
Federal Health Minister Mark Butler has urged the more than two-thirds of NSW’s public psychiatrists who have handed in their resignations to come back to the negotiating table to avoid “devastating consequences” for patients (The Guardian).
More than 200 of the state’s 295 psychiatrists at NSW’s public hospitals have handed in their resignations, effective from next week, due to concerns about pay and the state of mental healthcare.
The state government has offered a pay rise of 10.5% over three years, less than half the 25% asked for by the doctors.
Butler on Monday urged both parties to “come back to the table and resolve this in the interest of patients”.
The state’s psychiatrists have said they are paid a third less than their interstate colleagues and that many are leaving to join the private sector (City Hub).
According to one agency, NSW Health has offered a “crisis” pay rate of up to $3050 a day along with accommodation and travel allowances to help plug the holes from next week (SMH).

wait someone mentioned this but do we care

sarahs mum said:

:)

What the fuck is this, the early 1990s ¿¡

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-15/patient-groups-calls-for-free-tv-in-perth-public-hospitals/104815378

Have these people heard of smartphones andor tablet computers or what¿ What next are we about to get CD music in hospitals or something¿

SCIENCE said:

What the fuck is this, the early 1990s ¿¡

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-15/patient-groups-calls-for-free-tv-in-perth-public-hospitals/104815378

Have these people heard of smartphones andor tablet computers or what¿ What next are we about to get CD music in hospitals or something¿

I think that making daytime TV readily available to people in hospital would amount to inflicting cruelty on the sick.

SCIENCE said:

What the fuck is this, the early 1990s ¿¡

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-15/patient-groups-calls-for-free-tv-in-perth-public-hospitals/104815378

Have these people heard of smartphones andor tablet computers or what¿ What next are we about to get CD music in hospitals or something¿

I can understand the reluctance. It’s good for hospitals to be quiet. I suppose they can use irfons.

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

What the fuck is this, the early 1990s ¿¡

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-15/patient-groups-calls-for-free-tv-in-perth-public-hospitals/104815378

Have these people heard of smartphones andor tablet computers or what¿ What next are we about to get CD music in hospitals or something¿

I think that making daytime TV readily available to people in hospital would amount to inflicting cruelty on the sick.

Bloody oath it would

dv said:

SCIENCE said:

What the fuck is this, the early 1990s ¿¡

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-15/patient-groups-calls-for-free-tv-in-perth-public-hospitals/104815378

Have these people heard of smartphones andor tablet computers or what¿ What next are we about to get CD music in hospitals or something¿

I can understand the reluctance. It’s good for hospitals to be quiet. I suppose they can use irfons.

irfons?

Michael V said:

dv said:

SCIENCE said:

What the fuck is this, the early 1990s ¿¡

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-15/patient-groups-calls-for-free-tv-in-perth-public-hospitals/104815378

Have these people heard of smartphones andor tablet computers or what¿ What next are we about to get CD music in hospitals or something¿

I can understand the reluctance. It’s good for hospitals to be quiet. I suppose they can use irfons.

irfons?

headphones, or earphones that work on an IR transmitter from the TV etc.

Cymek said:

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

What the fuck is this, the early 1990s ¿¡

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-15/patient-groups-calls-for-free-tv-in-perth-public-hospitals/104815378

Have these people heard of smartphones andor tablet computers or what¿ What next are we about to get CD music in hospitals or something¿

I think that making daytime TV readily available to people in hospital would amount to inflicting cruelty on the sick.

Bloody oath it would

well we’re not all of yous so everyone kilometrage may vary but we’ve been in an emergency department waiting room recently and surely the frustration and boredom and rage could be brought down a notch if people had like a nice Bluey episode or Triumph des Willens or other suitable public lecture to watch and entertain themselves with

oh right CD music maybe some calming and inoffensive Mendelssohn or something

Michael V said:

dv said:

SCIENCE said:

What the fuck is this, the early 1990s ¿¡

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-15/patient-groups-calls-for-free-tv-in-perth-public-hospitals/104815378

Have these people heard of smartphones andor tablet computers or what¿ What next are we about to get CD music in hospitals or something¿

I can understand the reluctance. It’s good for hospitals to be quiet. I suppose they can use irfons.

irfons?

earphones

ChrispenEvan said:

Michael V said:

dv said:

I can understand the reluctance. It’s good for hospitals to be quiet. I suppose they can use irfons.

irfons?

headphones, or earphones that work on an IR transmitter from the TV etc.

Ta. Neveer heard that word before. Neither has my version of Go-Ogle.

BTW they still have signs up at RPH telling people not to use their phones. Literally no one complies, not even staff, and it’s just as well. You’re going to need your phone if you’re waiting in a hospital, whether for entertainment or communication.

Michael V said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Michael V said:

irfons?

headphones, or earphones that work on an IR transmitter from the TV etc.

Ta. Neveer heard that word before. Neither has my version of Go-Ogle.

Have you tried Bong, Net’n‘Yahoo, Altervishnu or Ask Jeez?

Michael V said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Michael V said:

irfons?

headphones, or earphones that work on an IR transmitter from the TV etc.

Ta. Neveer heard that word before. Neither has my version of Go-Ogle.

and they say 爱 is about to take over the world

dv said:

Michael V said:

dv said:

I can understand the reluctance. It’s good for hospitals to be quiet. I suppose they can use irfons.

irfons?

earphones

Ta.

Different, but similar to the other explanation.

dv said:

Michael V said:

ChrispenEvan said:

headphones, or earphones that work on an IR transmitter from the TV etc.

Ta. Neveer heard that word before. Neither has my version of Go-Ogle.

Have you tried Bong, Net’n‘Yahoo, Altervishnu or Ask Jeez?

LOL

SCIENCE said:

Michael V said:

ChrispenEvan said:

headphones, or earphones that work on an IR transmitter from the TV etc.

Ta. Neveer heard that word before. Neither has my version of Go-Ogle.

and they say 爱 is about to take over the world

Love makes the world go round.

dv said:

BTW they still have signs up at RPH telling people not to use their phones. Literally no one complies, not even staff, and it’s just as well. You’re going to need your phone if you’re waiting in a hospital, whether for entertainment or communication.

what ever did we do before mobiles? I think that is why god gave us thumbs, to twiddle.

Michael V said:

dv said:

Michael V said:

irfons?

earphones

Ta.

Different, but similar to the other explanation.

I was extrapolating from incorrect data.

Witty Rejoinder said:

SCIENCE said:

Michael V said:

Ta. Neveer heard that word before. Neither has my version of Go-Ogle.

and they say 爱 is about to take over the world

Love makes the world go round.

Fat bottomed girls
You make the rockin’ world go ‘round

ChrispenEvan said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

SCIENCE said:

and they say 爱 is about to take over the world

Love makes the world go round.

Fat bottomed girls
You make the rockin’ world go ‘round

Video ref:?

roughbarked said:

ChrispenEvan said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Love makes the world go round.

Fat bottomed girls
You make the rockin’ world go ‘round

Video ref:?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMnjF1O4eH0

Link

ChrispenEvan said:

dv said:

BTW they still have signs up at RPH telling people not to use their phones. Literally no one complies, not even staff, and it’s just as well. You’re going to need your phone if you’re waiting in a hospital, whether for entertainment or communication.

what ever did we do before mobiles? I think that is why god gave us thumbs, to twiddle.

We queued up to use the payphone to update relatives.

15 January 2025
Examiner.

One of the first people in Tasmania to be convicted under the new charge of performing a Nazi gesture pulled out a wad of cash to pay his fine when he appeared in the Launceston Magistrates Court.

Brendan Phillip Dudman, 58, of Ravenswood, pleaded guilty to doing a Nazi salute in a public place on November 4, 2024.
He also pleaded guilty to a count of using abusive language to a police officer on December 4, 2024.

Police prosecutor Jack Fawdry said police were on patrol near the Ravenswood Over 50’s club when they observed yelling and making gestures towards the police.

He said Dudman performed a Nazi salute and said, Heil Hitler.

When police asked him why he performed the salute, he said, “Don’t dictate to me then”.

Mr Fawdry said he called two police officers wankers, clowns, f—-wits and uneducated.

When Mr Fawdry took a list of Dudman’s prior offences for him to review, Dudman said, “ It’s no good bringing them back here, mate. I can’t read.”

He told magistrate Ken Stanton that he did the gesture out of frustration.

Dudman related a long list of grievances against police, including being injected against his will.

“Is it fair to say you have very little respect for the police?” Mr Stanton asked.

He told Mr Stanton he was going to go into the bush with his dog to die.

He said he had been refused medical treatment.

He said he abused the officers when in the divisional van because the driver was not watching the road.
In sentencing, Mr Stanton said he clearly had a substantial problem with police.

“You are convicted and fined $500 and have to pay the court costs of $98.54,” he said.

After the decision, Dudman pulled a large wad of $100 notes from his pocket, peeled off six, and laid them on the bar table in court.

Australia’s legal system is a complex framework of several courts that work together to resolve disputes.

Mr Stanton asked Dudman to take the money saying that he did not have the power to receive payment.

He said he would have to go to the correct place to pay after receiving a court notice.

“They won’t know where to find me because I’m going to the bush to die,” he said.

Tasmania’s legislation prohibiting a Nazi salute was proclaimed in August 2023.

A maximum sentence is a fine of 20 penalty units or up to three months in jail.

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Ros Meeker
Just now ·
Shared with Public
My first rant for the upcoming election season. Dutton plans to reintroduce the indue card. Starting with aboriginal communities and winding it out to all centrelinkers. This was such a bad scheme. Some stores would not deal with card holders at all. Rents were not paid on time and people were evicted. Homes were not rented to those on the card because the real estate people knew how hard it was to deal with. And Indue did not release funds for things like student excursions and even bras. (send us a photo of your old bra…) The payments were paid to Indue who slowly gave them back to the people whose money it was. The money was kept offshore. Everything was wrong with this scheme. But some mining magnates from WA do like it lots. And they will be paying the Libs bills for this election.

sarahs mum said:

Facebook
Ros Meeker
Just now ·
Shared with Public
My first rant for the upcoming election season. Dutton plans to reintroduce the indue card. Starting with aboriginal communities and winding it out to all centrelinkers. This was such a bad scheme. Some stores would not deal with card holders at all. Rents were not paid on time and people were evicted. Homes were not rented to those on the card because the real estate people knew how hard it was to deal with. And Indue did not release funds for things like student excursions and even bras. (send us a photo of your old bra…) The payments were paid to Indue who slowly gave them back to the people whose money it was. The money was kept offshore. Everything was wrong with this scheme. But some mining magnates from WA do like it lots. And they will be paying the Libs bills for this election.

‘Being rich’ depends on having people to whose situations you can compare your own.

If you have lots of money, and they have very little, then the comparison designates you as ‘rich’.

One way to make the difference in your situations even more pronounced is to see that the poor people have no money at all.

The Indue card is a most useful tool for creating that scenario.

Let us not forget:

the cruelty is not merely a side-effect of such measures.

The cruelty is the point.

captain_spalding said:

Let us not forget:

the cruelty is not merely a side-effect of such measures.

The cruelty is the point.

so corruption government for the next 6 years is pretty much a slam dunk then

Jeremy Campbell
Hi Ros Meeker, this has been a thing for you for quite a few years now. I’m not across the details but I don’t doubt for a minute that this card has horrendous consequences for the poor bastards who get put on it. But for mine it is just more shit from centrelink. I’m thinking Robodebt but also the treatment I got when I tried to deal with them regarding my mothers aged pension. I was literally told that they wouldn’t talk to or listen to me and that they wouldn’t listen to my mother. We walked out, and the cunt from centrelink was shocked that we did. They think they have you by the short and curlies, so resistance is not expected. I am on the record that I will top myself before I ever get to the point where I would have to ask centrelink for anything. You might hate Dutton, but Labor’s social security safety net is just as fucking bad. Broaden your campaign!
14m
Reply

Author
Ros Meeker
This ceased ‘to be a thing for me’ when its death was prioritised by this govt. I am sorry Centrelink did not meet your expectations. You could have complained through channels. And as I said this is my first rant. You can choose to read on..or not.

sarahs mum said:

Jeremy Campbell
Hi Ros Meeker, this has been a thing for you for quite a few years now. I’m not across the details but I don’t doubt for a minute that this card has horrendous consequences for the poor bastards who get put on it. But for mine it is just more shit from centrelink. I’m thinking Robodebt but also the treatment I got when I tried to deal with them regarding my mothers aged pension. I was literally told that they wouldn’t talk to or listen to me and that they wouldn’t listen to my mother. We walked out, and the cunt from centrelink was shocked that we did. They think they have you by the short and curlies, so resistance is not expected. I am on the record that I will top myself before I ever get to the point where I would have to ask centrelink for anything. You might hate Dutton, but Labor’s social security safety net is just as fucking bad. Broaden your campaign!
14m
Reply

Author
Ros Meeker
This ceased ‘to be a thing for me’ when its death was prioritised by this govt. I am sorry Centrelink did not meet your expectations. You could have complained through channels. And as I said this is my first rant. You can choose to read on..or not.

The bots always do this stuff though, “each way is just as bad”, “what about”, “hey look at this shiny”, “we agree to please spend all yours time telling us more instead of doing something useful”, some content streams are ridiculous and we don’t have a ready solution.

SCIENCE said:

sarahs mum said:

Jeremy Campbell
Hi Ros Meeker, this has been a thing for you for quite a few years now. I’m not across the details but I don’t doubt for a minute that this card has horrendous consequences for the poor bastards who get put on it. But for mine it is just more shit from centrelink. I’m thinking Robodebt but also the treatment I got when I tried to deal with them regarding my mothers aged pension. I was literally told that they wouldn’t talk to or listen to me and that they wouldn’t listen to my mother. We walked out, and the cunt from centrelink was shocked that we did. They think they have you by the short and curlies, so resistance is not expected. I am on the record that I will top myself before I ever get to the point where I would have to ask centrelink for anything. You might hate Dutton, but Labor’s social security safety net is just as fucking bad. Broaden your campaign!
14m
Reply

Author
Ros Meeker
This ceased ‘to be a thing for me’ when its death was prioritised by this govt. I am sorry Centrelink did not meet your expectations. You could have complained through channels. And as I said this is my first rant. You can choose to read on..or not.

The bots always do this stuff though, “each way is just as bad”, “what about”, “hey look at this shiny”, “we agree to please spend all yours time telling us more instead of doing something useful”, some content streams are ridiculous and we don’t have a ready solution.

that’s my ex brother in law. I let him stay in my living room for four months once.

sarahs mum said:

SCIENCE said:

sarahs mum said:

Jeremy Campbell
Hi Ros Meeker, this has been a thing for you for quite a few years now. I’m not across the details but I don’t doubt for a minute that this card has horrendous consequences for the poor bastards who get put on it. But for mine it is just more shit from centrelink. I’m thinking Robodebt but also the treatment I got when I tried to deal with them regarding my mothers aged pension. I was literally told that they wouldn’t talk to or listen to me and that they wouldn’t listen to my mother. We walked out, and the cunt from centrelink was shocked that we did. They think they have you by the short and curlies, so resistance is not expected. I am on the record that I will top myself before I ever get to the point where I would have to ask centrelink for anything. You might hate Dutton, but Labor’s social security safety net is just as fucking bad. Broaden your campaign!
14m
Reply

Author
Ros Meeker
This ceased ‘to be a thing for me’ when its death was prioritised by this govt. I am sorry Centrelink did not meet your expectations. You could have complained through channels. And as I said this is my first rant. You can choose to read on..or not.

The bots always do this stuff though, “each way is just as bad”, “what about”, “hey look at this shiny”, “we agree to please spend all yours time telling us more instead of doing something useful”, some content streams are ridiculous and we don’t have a ready solution.

that’s my ex brother in law. I let him stay in my living room for four months once.

yeah sorry we’ve been reading too much twitterthreadsredditmastodonbluesky and the increase in the garbage we mention above is just astonishing

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/jan/15/greater-sydney-council-bans-revealing-swimwear-sparking-debate-about-double-standards

SCIENCE said:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/jan/15/greater-sydney-council-bans-revealing-swimwear-sparking-debate-about-double-standards

Ho hum. Good luck coming up with a cast iron definition of what is OK and what is not.

party_pants said:

SCIENCE said:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/jan/15/greater-sydney-council-bans-revealing-swimwear-sparking-debate-about-double-standards

Ho hum. Good luck coming up with a cast iron definition of what is OK and what is not.

I think it will become clearer once sharia law comes in.