Post your damning anti-publisher material here. This link was provided by Michael.

We Need to Talk About the Billion-Dollar Industry Holding Science Hostage

The business model of most scientific publishers is so audacious it’s hard to believe it works. Here’s the pitch: You get some of the smartest people on Earth to create your product for free. Then, you get other experts, people to quality-control that product, also for free. Finally, you sell the product back to the very people who made it (and the taxpayers who funded them) at an exorbitant markup.

If you tried to pitch this on Shark Tank, you’d be laughed out of the room. But in the world of scientific publishing, this is just regular business.

A damning new analysis, “The Drain of Scientific Publishing,” suggests that the science publishing system has become a major problem for science. Far more than just annoying paywalls, this is a systemic drain that’s actively damaging humanity’s ability to solve problems.

Full report at link.

Link to Wikipedia article about SciHub. The publishers don’t like her

Bubblecar said:

Post your damning anti-publisher material here. This link was provided by Michael.

We Need to Talk About the Billion-Dollar Industry Holding Science Hostage

The business model of most scientific publishers is so audacious it’s hard to believe it works. Here’s the pitch: You get some of the smartest people on Earth to create your product for free. Then, you get other experts, people to quality-control that product, also for free. Finally, you sell the product back to the very people who made it (and the taxpayers who funded them) at an exorbitant markup.

If you tried to pitch this on Shark Tank, you’d be laughed out of the room. But in the world of scientific publishing, this is just regular business.

A damning new analysis, “The Drain of Scientific Publishing,” suggests that the science publishing system has become a major problem for science. Far more than just annoying paywalls, this is a systemic drain that’s actively damaging humanity’s ability to solve problems.

Full report at link.

Humanity loves to monetise everything.
Its quite distasteful as is that the only value that is important.

Seems that if not published all your work means nothing

Bubblecar said:

The business model of most scientific publishers is so audacious it’s hard to believe it works. Here’s the pitch: You get some of the smartest people on Earth to create your product for free. Then, you get other experts, people to quality-control that product, also for free. Finally, you sell the product back to the very people who made it (and the taxpayers who funded them) at an exorbitant markup.

we mean this just reads like most supposed clever research type people are simply terrible at financial management and too willing to let others take control of their affairs, so we’re not sure this is not a simplistic understanding andor they really do deserve to be scammed out of their clothes

SCIENCE said:

Bubblecar said:

The business model of most scientific publishers is so audacious it’s hard to believe it works. Here’s the pitch: You get some of the smartest people on Earth to create your product for free. Then, you get other experts, people to quality-control that product, also for free. Finally, you sell the product back to the very people who made it (and the taxpayers who funded them) at an exorbitant markup.

we mean this just reads like most supposed clever research type people are simply terrible at financial management and too willing to let others take control of their affairs, so we’re not sure this is not a simplistic understanding andor they really do deserve to be scammed out of their clothes

But supposed clever research type people are not in a position to negotiate with big-publishing, but they are in a position to know that if they want to get anywhere in academia they need to get published by big-publishing.

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

Bubblecar said:

The business model of most scientific publishers is so audacious it’s hard to believe it works. Here’s the pitch: You get some of the smartest people on Earth to create your product for free. Then, you get other experts, people to quality-control that product, also for free. Finally, you sell the product back to the very people who made it (and the taxpayers who funded them) at an exorbitant markup.

we mean this just reads like most supposed clever research type people are simply terrible at financial management and too willing to let others take control of their affairs, so we’re not sure this is not a simplistic understanding andor they really do deserve to be scammed out of their clothes

But supposed clever research type people are not in a position to negotiate with big-publishing, but they are in a position to know that if they want to get anywhere in academia they need to get published by big-publishing.

Yes.

Michael V said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

SCIENCE said:

we mean this just reads like most supposed clever research type people are simply terrible at financial management and too willing to let others take control of their affairs, so we’re not sure this is not a simplistic understanding andor they really do deserve to be scammed out of their clothes

But supposed clever research type people are not in a position to negotiate with big-publishing, but they are in a position to know that if they want to get anywhere in academia they need to get published by big-publishing.

Yes.

so it’s actually their academic institutions holding them hostage

This prompted me to go and read the Wikipedia entry on Elsevier

“In 2020, Elsevier was the largest academic publisher, with approximately 16% of the academic publishing market and more than 3000 journals.

“Fossil fuel company consulting and advocacy

“Elsevier is one of the most prolific publishers of books aimed at expanding the production of fossil fuels. Since at least 2010 the company has worked with the fossil fuel industry to optimise fossil fuel extraction. It commissions authors, journal advisory board members and editors who are employees of the largest oil firms. In addition it markets data services and research portals directly to the fossil fuel industry to help “increase the odds of exploration success”.”

Cool, cool. That’s cool.

alleged

Overall working of the framework presented as an infographic.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-025-24662-9

Well, that certainly clears up that subject for me.

captain_spalding said:

Well, that certainly clears up that subject for me.

+1

I had a chat to my speech pathologist daughter who is dealing with these publishing nightmares all the time. She said that yes, it’s a bugger, but there are workarounds.

She said that she doesn’t have to pay to publish her papers. The unis have deals with certain publishing houses. People can read her stuff for nothing because she makes the penultimate draft available on various sites… the final draft is locked down by the publisher.

Getting peer reviewed can be a fraught process but if she is friends with a potential reviewer…

In her field there is one very big Dutch publisher that charges exorbitantly to publish and to read. Speechies are banding together to ban the use of them.

She reckons that the academic publishing industry is second only to illegal drugs for profitability.