The death toll has risen to 15 and may rise further.

It emerges that Sajid Akram had six firearms licenced to him. He had held a firearm licence for ten years. The other shooter was his son Naveed who remains in custody.

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese on Monday morning described the attack as “an act of pure evil”.

“What we saw yesterday was an act of pure evil, an act of antisemitism, an act of terrorism on our shores at an iconic Australian location,” he said.

The two IEDs were both in a vehicle. Not sure of they were carbombs

—-

Not clear to me why someone in Bonnyrigg is allowed to have sox guns but okay. Neighbours have said they were shocked, they seemed like a normal family but that always seems to be how it is.
Be interested to see whether there were any outside coordination because various other houses have been raided on the basis of connections to the shooting.

It’s looking increasingly like it might be an IS-inspired terror attack.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-12-15/bondi-beach-shooting-terrorist-attack/106142446

captain_spalding said:

Divine Angel said:

SCIENCE said:

is evil banal or is it only perpetrated by …

… no wait surely evil doesn’t start by dehumanising others …

… wait …

or the self

… oh shit

OK, so 15 people and 1 monster are dead.

But, that was Hannah Arendt’s whole point in ‘Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil’

People who do evil things are not monsters. They’re people, just like you and me, and all of our friends and relatives. Often, they’re people who we would look at, and never consider to even be capable of contemplating an evil act.

It’s the fact that they are commomplace people that should worry us they most.

If they can lapse into behaving like monsters, who’s to say that we can’t?

thanks

we agree and extend it into this situation

not only does the accusation that the perpetrators were monsters disingenuously brush away the disturbing thought that oneself could be responsible for the same atrocity in different circumstances

they make a point of othering and dehumanising the next target thereby making it easier for themselves to commit the same atrocity in the updated different circumstance

and so the cycle of violence perpetuates

NOTE THIS IS COPY PASTED

dv said:

The death toll has risen to 15 and may rise further.

It emerges that Sajid Akram had six firearms licenced to him. He had held a firearm licence for ten years. The other shooter was his son Naveed who remains in custody.

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese on Monday morning described the attack as “an act of pure evil”.

“What we saw yesterday was an act of pure evil, an act of antisemitism, an act of terrorism on our shores at an iconic Australian location,” he said.

The two IEDs were both in a vehicle. Not sure of they were carbombs

—-

Not clear to me why someone in Bonnyrigg is allowed to have sox guns but okay. Neighbours have said they were shocked, they seemed like a normal family but that always seems to be how it is.
Be interested to see whether there were any outside coordination because various other houses have been raided on the basis of connections to the shooting.

My understanding is that there is no hard cap on the number of firearms a person can own, only that there are rules that govern what types of guns a person can own, how those guns are licensed (which includes a “genuine interest” test) and how those licensed guns must be safely stored.

Witty Rejoinder said:

roughbarked said:

Michael V said:

roughbarked said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

If I were Albo of give Netanyahu a real spray regardless of the diplomatic consequences. Stupid fuck will say anything if he thinks it serves his narrow coalition government.

Agree.

Fk Netanyahu, the violent, corrupt hater. It is largely his (and his government’s) long-term actions that caused this.

It is virtually all down to him and his cronies that have pushed war onto others.

Absolutely. The biggest security failure in Israel’s history has fallen under his watch and he has suffered no reprimand by anyone. Israeli politics is extremely dysfunctional.

yeah but why wouldn’t arseholes in all corners of the globe jump on board the great defenders of the Jews bandwagon and point fingers

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-12-15/albanese-told-to-endorse-antisemitism-plan-after-bondi-shooting/106142578
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-12-15/israels-pm-benjamin-netanyahu-lashes-out-over-bondi-shooting/106142722

NOTE THIS IS COPY PASTED

diddly-squat said:

dv said:

The death toll has risen to 15 and may rise further.

It emerges that Sajid Akram had six firearms licenced to him. He had held a firearm licence for ten years. The other shooter was his son Naveed who remains in custody.

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese on Monday morning described the attack as “an act of pure evil”.

“What we saw yesterday was an act of pure evil, an act of antisemitism, an act of terrorism on our shores at an iconic Australian location,” he said.

The two IEDs were both in a vehicle. Not sure of they were carbombs

—-

Not clear to me why someone in Bonnyrigg is allowed to have sox guns but okay. Neighbours have said they were shocked, they seemed like a normal family but that always seems to be how it is.
Be interested to see whether there were any outside coordination because various other houses have been raided on the basis of connections to the shooting.

My understanding is that there is no hard cap on the number of firearms a person can own, only that there are rules that govern what types of guns a person can own, how those guns are licensed (which includes a “genuine interest” test) and how those licensed guns must be safely stored.

With such hatred involved I imagine if not guns something else.

These doesn’t help matters at all if you wanted to make a point about Israel
They are likely to double down on action in Gaza.

Michael V said:

It’s looking increasingly like it might be an IS-inspired terror attack.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-12-15/bondi-beach-shooting-terrorist-attack/106142446

Inspired or linked¿

Australia’s domestic intelligence agency, ASIO, examined Bondi gunman Naveed Akram six years ago for his close ties to a Sydney-based Islamic State group (IS) terrorism cell, the ABC understands. The ABC understands investigators from the Joint Counter Terrorism Team (JCTT) believe the gunmen had pledged allegiance to the IS terrorist group. An IS flag was found in the men’s car at Bondi Beach, according to a senior JCTT official, speaking on condition of anonymity. The official said ASIO took an interest in Naveed Akram six years ago, after police foiled plans for an IS terrorist attack. The ABC understands ASIO started looking into the man soon after the July 2019 arrest of IS terrorist Isaak El Matari in Sydney. The official said Mr Akram was closely connected to Mr Matari, who is serving seven years’ jail for planning an IS insurgency as the self-declared Australian commander of the terrorist group. Mr Matari was part of an IS cell with several other Sydney men who have since been convicted of terrorist offences and were also close to Naveed Akram, according to sources with close knowledge of the matter. ASIO director-general Mike Burgess said on Sunday that one of the gunmen was known to the agency, but did not specify which man. “One of these individuals was known to us, but not in an immediate-threat perspective, so we need to look into what happened here,” he said.

we mean this has never happened before, we’re not old enough to remember a Lindt café siège or anything

wait

oh one day we’ll tell yous our own Lindt café siège story

Cymek said:

These doesn’t help matters at all if you wanted to make a point about Israel
They are likely to double down on action in Gaza.

pretty sure they were going to continue to atrocity the Palestinians anyway

There’s a lot of anti-sememetic misguided hate in here.
Unfettered hate leads to violence and we saw it in spades at the Opera House demonstration a short while ago.

Peak Warming Man said:

There’s a lot of anti-sememetic misguided hate in here.
Unfettered hate leads to violence and we saw it in spades at the Opera House demonstration a short while ago.

It depends on if you can call people out on actions not acceptable regardless of everything else.
Certain actions aren’t excusable for any reason.
Israel bombing children and people not accepting it, isn’t antisemitism.

Jewish people aren’t responsible for its governments actions.
People don’t seem to understand that.

Peak Warming Man said:

There’s a lot of anti-sememetic misguided hate in here.

Nah

Peak Warming Man said:

There’s a lot of anti-sememetic misguided hate in here.
Unfettered hate leads to violence and we saw it in spades at the Opera House demonstration a short while ago.

Huh?

dv said:

Peak Warming Man said:

There’s a lot of anti-sememetic misguided hate in here.

Nah

Also is everyone going to now be anti-Palestinian.
Blame all of them for the actions of a few.
Heard a conversation at work.
Perhaps it will stop certain groups being allowed into Australia.

Cymek said:

people aren’t responsible for its governments actions. People don’t seem to understand that.

so called democracy team sports is pretty good hey, if anything goes bad just blame the other team

Cymek said:

dv said:

Peak Warming Man said:

There’s a lot of anti-sememetic misguided hate in here.

Nah

Also is everyone going to now be anti-Palestinian.
Blame all of them for the actions of a few.
Heard a conversation at work.
Perhaps it will stop certain groups being allowed into Australia.

Lots of people supporting those stickers for cars on we are Australian and this or that isn’t acceptable
Especially amusing the we treat woman equal with our appalling record with DV.

Though when your primary source of news entertainment is Sky News it’s not surprising you are a moron.

Cymek said:

dv said:

Peak Warming Man said:

There’s a lot of anti-sememetic misguided hate in here.

Nah

Also is everyone going to now be anti-Palestinian.
Blame all of them for the actions of a few.
Heard a conversation at work.
Perhaps it will stop certain groups being allowed into Australia.

I don’t think so. People have views on Palestine and Israel that are not likely to influenced by this one event. It’s not as though this is the first act of terrorism, even though this is by far the biggest on Australian soil.

SCIENCE said:

Cymek said:

people aren’t responsible for its governments actions. People don’t seem to understand that.

so called democracy team sports is pretty good hey, if anything goes bad just blame the other team

adopts Russian accent
In communist China Xi blames you!

Witty Rejoinder said:

SCIENCE said:

Cymek said:

people aren’t responsible for its governments actions. People don’t seem to understand that.

so called democracy team sports is pretty good hey, if anything goes bad just blame the other team

adopts Russian accent
In communist China Xi blames you!

ironic since in those Freedom places full of team sports democracy when anything goes wrong they can just be like yeah that was the private contractor too bad thanks for playing

There can be no justification for this evil act.

Peak Warming Man said:

There can be no justification for this evil act.

Correct

dv said:

Peak Warming Man said:

There can be no justification for this evil act.

Correct

No of course not.

dv said:

Peak Warming Man said:

There can be no justification for this evil act.

Correct

Indeed.

SCIENCE said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

SCIENCE said:

so called democracy team sports is pretty good hey, if anything goes bad just blame the other team

adopts Russian accent
In communist China Xi blames you!

ironic since in those Freedom places full of team sports democracy when anything goes wrong they can just be like yeah that was the private contractor too bad thanks for playing

Still better than the alternative.

Peak Warming Man said:

There can be no justification for this evil act.

The blame sits with Netanyahu and Trump, and all who support them. Especially those who enable Trump’s foul and insane ramblings about Muslims

Gotta feel for this guy.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/i-am-very-scared-man-wrongly-identified-as-bondi-shooter-speaks-out/news-story/8b7737d9b0dd9f2dbda2d2940522583d

Various sources are saying that the Akrams are Pakistani nationals.

The death count has risen to 16.

Divine Angel said:

Gotta feel for this guy.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/i-am-very-scared-man-wrongly-identified-as-bondi-shooter-speaks-out/news-story/8b7737d9b0dd9f2dbda2d2940522583d

Shit, hey!

:(

:(

:(

IIRC Man Monis was also “known” to authorities prior to the Lindt Cafe siege in 2014 as well.

Has there been a failure by the “authorites” (ASIO, AFP, NSW Police etc) here as well?

dv said:

Various sources are saying that the Akrams are Pakistani nationals.

The death count has risen to 16.

The name is reminiscent of a Pakastani family name.

One example is a famous cricketer.

dv said:

Cymek said:

dv said:

Nah

Also is everyone going to now be anti-Palestinian.
Blame all of them for the actions of a few.
Heard a conversation at work.
Perhaps it will stop certain groups being allowed into Australia.

I don’t think so. People have views on Palestine and Israel that are not likely to influenced by this one event. It’s not as though this is the first act of terrorism, even though this is by far the biggest on Australian soil.

I think in large, most Australians can walk and chew gum at the same time when it comes to discussing the policies of the Israeli government and hate crimes committed against Jewish people.

Michael V said:

Divine Angel said:

Gotta feel for this guy.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/i-am-very-scared-man-wrongly-identified-as-bondi-shooter-speaks-out/news-story/8b7737d9b0dd9f2dbda2d2940522583d

Shit, hey!

:(

:(

:(

you have to be astonished at anyone who’d think, even for a moment, that it was this poor devil who did the shooting.

They need only ask themselves:

• is he in police custody (as all reports clearly state the shooter is)?

• does he have any gunshot wounds (as all reports indicate is the case with the shooter)?

• is he under guard in hospital (as, again, all reports make clear the shooter is)?

If ‘no’ to any or all of the above, then he is not the shooter.

captain_spalding said:

Michael V said:

Divine Angel said:

Gotta feel for this guy.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/i-am-very-scared-man-wrongly-identified-as-bondi-shooter-speaks-out/news-story/8b7737d9b0dd9f2dbda2d2940522583d

Shit, hey!

:(

:(

:(

you have to be astonished at anyone who’d think, even for a moment, that it was this poor devil who did the shooting.

They need only ask themselves:

• is he in police custody (as all reports clearly state the shooter is)?

• does he have any gunshot wounds (as all reports indicate is the case with the shooter)?

• is he under guard in hospital (as, again, all reports make clear the shooter is)?

If ‘no’ to any or all of the above, then he is not the shooter.

Have you forgotten how stupid some people are?

Woodie said:

IIRC Man Monis was also “known” to authorities prior to the Lindt Cafe siege in 2014 as well.

Has there been a failure by the “authorites” (ASIO, AFP, NSW Police etc) here as well?

It’s a tradition in Australian ‘security’ thinking:

only ‘lefties’ pose a real threat to the safety and security of Australia and Australians.

Religious/rightist ratbags are seen as a bit wonky, but nowhere near as bad as those commie pinko lefty bastards.

Woodie said:

IIRC Man Monis was also “known” to authorities prior to the Lindt Cafe siege in 2014 as well.

Has there been a failure by the “authorites” (ASIO, AFP, NSW Police etc) here as well?

The police have said they have had dealings with Sajid.

Presumably nothing that would suggest he was about to commit the worst massacre of the millennium.

diddly-squat said:

dv said:

Cymek said:

Also is everyone going to now be anti-Palestinian.
Blame all of them for the actions of a few.
Heard a conversation at work.
Perhaps it will stop certain groups being allowed into Australia.

I don’t think so. People have views on Palestine and Israel that are not likely to influenced by this one event. It’s not as though this is the first act of terrorism, even though this is by far the biggest on Australian soil.

I think in large, most Australians can walk and chew gum at the same time when it comes to discussing the policies of the Israeli government and hate crimes committed against Jewish people.

Quite.

dv said:

diddly-squat said:

dv said:

I don’t think so. People have views on Palestine and Israel that are not likely to influenced by this one event. It’s not as though this is the first act of terrorism, even though this is by far the biggest on Australian soil.

I think in large, most Australians can walk and chew gum at the same time when it comes to discussing the policies of the Israeli government and hate crimes committed against Jewish people.

Quite.

It’s not ‘most Australians’ that are the problem.

It’s the other bunch.

captain_spalding said:

Michael V said:

Divine Angel said:

Gotta feel for this guy.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/i-am-very-scared-man-wrongly-identified-as-bondi-shooter-speaks-out/news-story/8b7737d9b0dd9f2dbda2d2940522583d

Shit, hey!

:(

:(

:(

you have to be astonished at anyone who’d think, even for a moment, that it was this poor devil who did the shooting.

They need only ask themselves:

• is he in police custody (as all reports clearly state the shooter is)?

• does he have any gunshot wounds (as all reports indicate is the case with the shooter)?

• is he under guard in hospital (as, again, all reports make clear the shooter is)?

If ‘no’ to any or all of the above, then he is not the shooter.

But how could people on social media who haven’t left their armchairs be so wrong??

dv said:

Woodie said:

IIRC Man Monis was also “known” to authorities prior to the Lindt Cafe siege in 2014 as well.

Has there been a failure by the “authorites” (ASIO, AFP, NSW Police etc) here as well?

The police have said they have had dealings with Sajid.

Presumably nothing that would suggest he was about to commit the worst massacre of the millennium.

Plus the the Minority Report is a movie.

Bogsnorkler said:

dv said:

Woodie said:

IIRC Man Monis was also “known” to authorities prior to the Lindt Cafe siege in 2014 as well.

Has there been a failure by the “authorites” (ASIO, AFP, NSW Police etc) here as well?

The police have said they have had dealings with Sajid.

Presumably nothing that would suggest he was about to commit the worst massacre of the millennium.

Plus the the Minority Report is a movie.

and a novel by some Dick.

Divine Angel said:

captain_spalding said:

Michael V said:

Shit, hey!

:(

:(

:(

you have to be astonished at anyone who’d think, even for a moment, that it was this poor devil who did the shooting.

They need only ask themselves:

• is he in police custody (as all reports clearly state the shooter is)?

• does he have any gunshot wounds (as all reports indicate is the case with the shooter)?

• is he under guard in hospital (as, again, all reports make clear the shooter is)?

If ‘no’ to any or all of the above, then he is not the shooter.

But how could people on social media who haven’t left their armchairs be so wrong??

Well, they know that they can’t be wrong.

Some of us like to check our facts before publishing.

dv said:

Woodie said:

IIRC Man Monis was also “known” to authorities prior to the Lindt Cafe siege in 2014 as well.

Has there been a failure by the “authorites” (ASIO, AFP, NSW Police etc) here as well?

The police have said they have had dealings with Sajid.

Presumably nothing that would suggest he was about to commit the worst massacre of the millennium.

If they had history with the father he should have had his guns taken off him.

There’s no better exemplar that this is a tragedy for all Australians than the fact that the youngest victim was named Matilda.

Witty Rejoinder said:

There’s no better exemplar that this is a tragedy for all Australians than the fact that the youngest victim was named Matilda.

how

Divine Angel said:

captain_spalding said:

Michael V said:

Shit, hey!

:(

:(

:(

you have to be astonished at anyone who’d think, even for a moment, that it was this poor devil who did the shooting.

They need only ask themselves:

• is he in police custody (as all reports clearly state the shooter is)?

• does he have any gunshot wounds (as all reports indicate is the case with the shooter)?

• is he under guard in hospital (as, again, all reports make clear the shooter is)?

If ‘no’ to any or all of the above, then he is not the shooter.

But how could people on social media who haven’t left their armchairs be so wrong??

So¿ It this infringement of freedom social media ban is so good then why didn’t it fix this problem last year already¿

Witty Rejoinder said:

SCIENCE said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

adopts Russian accent
In communist China Xi blames you!

ironic since in those Freedom places full of team sports democracy when anything goes wrong they can just be like yeah that was the private contractor too bad thanks for playing

Still better than the alternative.

disagree, we don’t think pointing fingers when things go badly is better then having things go well

kii said:

Peak Warming Man said:

There can be no justification for this evil act.

The blame sits with Netanyahu and Trump, and all who support them. Especially those who enable Trump’s foul and insane ramblings about Muslims

wait when they did their stupid shit with Times New Roman and Calibri and what not did they also ban certain types of text alignment as well damn

Lots of anti Muslim nastiness around.

Probably get my Facebook account banned for calling them fuckheads

Witty Rejoinder said:

dv said:

Woodie said:

IIRC Man Monis was also “known” to authorities prior to the Lindt Cafe siege in 2014 as well.

Has there been a failure by the “authorites” (ASIO, AFP, NSW Police etc) here as well?

The police have said they have had dealings with Sajid.

Presumably nothing that would suggest he was about to commit the worst massacre of the millennium.

If they had history with the father he should have had his guns taken off him.

It was the son who had history.

roughbarked said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

dv said:

The police have said they have had dealings with Sajid.

Presumably nothing that would suggest he was about to commit the worst massacre of the millennium.

If they had history with the father he should have had his guns taken off him.

It was the son who had history.

My mistake. Confused the two names.

SCIENCE said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

There’s no better exemplar that this is a tragedy for all Australians than the fact that the youngest victim was named Matilda.

how

Waltzing…

Witty Rejoinder said:

SCIENCE said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

There’s no better exemplar that this is a tragedy for all Australians than the fact that the youngest victim was named Matilda.

how

Waltzing…

My son’s girlfriend’s name is Matilda (Tilda)

Witty Rejoinder said:

roughbarked said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

If they had history with the father he should have had his guns taken off him.

It was the son who had history.

My mistake. Confused the two names.

Or maybe I did.

dv said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

roughbarked said:

It was the son who had history.

My mistake. Confused the two names.

Or maybe I did.

To the police violence offences are commonplace even racial motivated ones.
They don’t have prescience so have no idea if that person will escalate the violence except probably DV
You could track people at great expense and time and violate personal rights
It might pay off down the track and prevent something but highly unlikely.

We mostly left the radio off while in the car this morning…I don’t like listening to breathless reporters talking to random people in the street who want to tell their story. Yes, I understand you need to talk. But not in the open media. I did pick up from the news and the news online that the guy who did the disarming is a Syrian immigrant of long standing. I also thought about the one of the shooters who had been previously looked into and thought this is going to make it more difficult for the opposition to try to pin some blame on the current government. Because the looking into happened on their watch.

Albanese is talking about tighter gun laws. They would have to be pretty tight to have avoided this. Like mandating that any sporting shooters’ firearms remain at the club.

dv said:

Albanese is talking about tighter gun laws. They would have to be pretty tight to have avoided this. Like mandating that any sporting shooters’ firearms remain at the club.

That’ll probably be it.

A bit of a knee-jerk, but it’ll be the measure that satisifies the media and the voters most, so…

…and it will probably help somewhat.

They could try something like:

• ever had a conviction for, or involvement in any violent incident at all? No gun license for you!

• got a gun license, but you get a violence conviction, or acquire a history of association with radical ideologies? Gun license revoked, firearms confiscated!

captain_spalding said:

dv said:

Albanese is talking about tighter gun laws. They would have to be pretty tight to have avoided this. Like mandating that any sporting shooters’ firearms remain at the club.

That’ll probably be it.

A bit of a knee-jerk, but it’ll be the measure that satisifies the media and the voters most, so…

…and it will probably help somewhat.

They could try something like:

• ever had a conviction for, or involvement in any violent incident at all? No gun license for you!

• got a gun license, but you get a violence conviction, or acquire a history of association with radical ideologies? Gun license revoked, firearms confiscated!

• any history of mental health disorders? No guns!

Cymek said:

Lots of anti Muslim nastiness around.

Probably get my Facebook account banned for calling them fuckheads

who

Divine Angel said:

captain_spalding said:

dv said:

Albanese is talking about tighter gun laws. They would have to be pretty tight to have avoided this. Like mandating that any sporting shooters’ firearms remain at the club.

That’ll probably be it.

A bit of a knee-jerk, but it’ll be the measure that satisifies the media and the voters most, so…

…and it will probably help somewhat.

They could try something like:

• ever had a conviction for, or involvement in any violent incident at all? No gun license for you!

• got a gun license, but you get a violence conviction, or acquire a history of association with radical ideologies? Gun license revoked, firearms confiscated!

• any history of mental health disorders? No guns!
  

Well, that really would mean the end of all private gun ownership in Australia (maybe a good thing, maybe not…?).

I can’t think of anyone i’ve ever met who didn’t have at least some small, insignificant bat loose in their belfry.

The Dalai Lama.

There you go, the model gun owner.

That man has all his shit together.

Only one i can think of.

captain_spalding said:

Divine Angel said:

captain_spalding said:

That’ll probably be it.

A bit of a knee-jerk, but it’ll be the measure that satisifies the media and the voters most, so…

…and it will probably help somewhat.

They could try something like:

• ever had a conviction for, or involvement in any violent incident at all? No gun license for you!

• got a gun license, but you get a violence conviction, or acquire a history of association with radical ideologies? Gun license revoked, firearms confiscated!

• any history of mental health disorders? No guns!
  

Well, that really would mean the end of all private gun ownership in Australia (maybe a good thing, maybe not…?).

I can’t think of anyone i’ve ever met who didn’t have at least some small, insignificant bat loose in their belfry.

but were they formally diagnosed

Yeah, look, I don’t know the answer. We’ve already got some of the tightest gun laws in the world.

SCIENCE said:

but were they formally diagnosed

It’s not necessarily a bad thing.

In the Navy that i knew, it was the slightly bonkers people who really got things done.

If i was signing on today, they might ask, ‘do you have any mental health issues?’.

Reply: ‘of course i do, i’m trying to join the Navy, what sane person does that?’.

Divine Angel said:

captain_spalding said:

dv said:

Albanese is talking about tighter gun laws. They would have to be pretty tight to have avoided this. Like mandating that any sporting shooters’ firearms remain at the club.

That’ll probably be it.

A bit of a knee-jerk, but it’ll be the measure that satisifies the media and the voters most, so…

…and it will probably help somewhat.

They could try something like:

• ever had a conviction for, or involvement in any violent incident at all? No gun license for you!

• got a gun license, but you get a violence conviction, or acquire a history of association with radical ideologies? Gun license revoked, firearms confiscated!

• any history of mental health disorders? No guns!
  

or an audit office maybe, have some formal mechanism that, on an annual basis, forces one to prove they 1. have a need for the firearms they own and 2. that they can store them in line with the requirements outlined in the ownership legislation

diddly-squat said:

or an audit office maybe, have some formal mechanism that, on an annual basis, forces one to prove they 1. have a need for the firearms they own and 2. that they can store them in line with the requirements outlined in the ownership legislation

Yeah, storage should be a thing.

Way back when i owned a pistol (in NSW), you didn’t need any special storage if it was just one pistol. Honest, true.

Get a second pistol – you need a safe.

(i kept my pistol disassembled into four parts, kept in separate hidey-holes in the house)

Storing the guns at the gun clubs seems, at least initially, to be a good idea.

But, pistol and rifle clubs, and clay-target clubs etc. are usually in isolated areas, for obvious reasons. And they’re not attended all that frequently. Several days can elapse between practice sessions or matches and so on, when no-one goes near the place.

As it is, everyone knows that shooters bring their guns to the club, and take them away again. The club/range is therefore ‘empty’.

But, if you store lots of firearms there, what have you done? You have created a most desirable target for people looking to get guns illegally. And there’d be lots of such targets, dotted all over the country.

Every club would have to construct storage facilities that would be the equal of anything built to resist nuclear blasts at close range.

And criminals can be awfully clever and/or persistent. There will be thefts, beyond any shadow of a doubt.

GetUp sent out an email asking people to put a lit candle in the window in solidarity with the victims of yesterday. Has this gained traction at all? Anything on TV, radio, social media? Or does it only work with cricket bats?

Witty Rejoinder said:

GetUp sent out an email asking people to put a lit candle in the window in solidarity with the victims of yesterday. Has this gained traction at all? Anything on TV, radio, social media? Or does it only work with cricket bats?

You’d be better off asking the fire brigade.

captain_spalding said:

dv said:

Albanese is talking about tighter gun laws. They would have to be pretty tight to have avoided this. Like mandating that any sporting shooters’ firearms remain at the club.

That’ll probably be it.

A bit of a knee-jerk, but it’ll be the measure that satisifies the media and the voters most, so…

…and it will probably help somewhat.

They could try something like:

• ever had a conviction for, or involvement in any violent incident at all? No gun license for you!

• got a gun license, but you get a violence conviction, or acquire a history of association with radical ideologies? Gun license revoked, firearms confiscated!

Pretty sure those already exist.
Convicted of DV or common assault.
No gun license.

Divine Angel said:

Yeah, look, I don’t know the answer. We’ve already got some of the tightest gun laws in the world.

We do.

dv said:

Albanese is talking about tighter gun laws. They would have to be pretty tight to have avoided this. Like mandating that any sporting shooters’ firearms remain at the club.

Could be a problem for field shooters.

diddly-squat said:

Divine Angel said:

captain_spalding said:

That’ll probably be it.

A bit of a knee-jerk, but it’ll be the measure that satisifies the media and the voters most, so…

…and it will probably help somewhat.

They could try something like:

• ever had a conviction for, or involvement in any violent incident at all? No gun license for you!

• got a gun license, but you get a violence conviction, or acquire a history of association with radical ideologies? Gun license revoked, firearms confiscated!

• any history of mental health disorders? No guns!
  

or an audit office maybe, have some formal mechanism that, on an annual basis, forces one to prove they 1. have a need for the firearms they own and 2. that they can store them in line with the requirements outlined in the ownership legislation

The firearms license holders are under constant review. They do come around and check your storage.
It just takes too long and there are too few officers.

Witty Rejoinder said:

GetUp sent out an email asking people to put a lit candle in the window in solidarity with the victims of yesterday. Has this gained traction at all? Anything on TV, radio, social media? Or does it only work with cricket bats?

Haven’t heard a thing about it until now.

wtf is all this though

7m 8s
Police are seen approaching the shooting position from multiple directions.

The next few minutes, until the video ends, are chaotic.

A handful of police, who were just involved in the gun fight, desperately try to secure the scene and provide first aid, as bystanders approach from all directions.

At the same time, one man starts to physically assault another bystander.

Another is seen running into the scene multiple times to hit the shooter on the ground.

buffy said:

dv said:

Albanese is talking about tighter gun laws. They would have to be pretty tight to have avoided this. Like mandating that any sporting shooters’ firearms remain at the club.

Could be a problem for field shooters.

This would require the clubs to have an armoury all secure and constantly surveiled to ensure they guns cannot be stolen.

SCIENCE said:

Another is seen running into the scene multiple times to hit the shooter on the ground.

Nasty, but, let’s be honest, understandable.

roughbarked said:

diddly-squat said:

Divine Angel said:

• any history of mental health disorders? No guns!
  

or an audit office maybe, have some formal mechanism that, on an annual basis, forces one to prove they 1. have a need for the firearms they own and 2. that they can store them in line with the requirements outlined in the ownership legislation

The firearms license holders are under constant review. They do come around and check your storage.
It just takes too long and there are too few officers.

so it’s a job for 爱 then

SCIENCE said:

wtf is all this though

7m 8s
Police are seen approaching the shooting position from multiple directions.

The next few minutes, until the video ends, are chaotic.

A handful of police, who were just involved in the gun fight, desperately try to secure the scene and provide first aid, as bystanders approach from all directions.

At the same time, one man starts to physically assault another bystander.

Another is seen running into the scene multiple times to hit the shooter on the ground.

Unfortunately, this video is not being shown to the general public so we have to go on whatever we are told.

personally I don’t think gun laws need to be strengthened. Just enforce the current ones better. 30 odd years since the last mass shooting isn’t a bad record.

SCIENCE said:

roughbarked said:

diddly-squat said:

or an audit office maybe, have some formal mechanism that, on an annual basis, forces one to prove they 1. have a need for the firearms they own and 2. that they can store them in line with the requirements outlined in the ownership legislation

The firearms license holders are under constant review. They do come around and check your storage.
It just takes too long and there are too few officers.

so it’s a job for 爱 then

I know of one gun owner whose guns were removed when they came to check his storage, he wasn’t home and the officers asked if the lady of the house knew where the key was since they wanted to check inside the gun cabinet. When she produced the key, they took the lot. Simply because only the gun owner should know where the key is.

Bogsnorkler said:

personally I don’t think gun laws need to be strengthened. Just enforce the current ones better. 30 odd years since the last mass shooting isn’t a bad record.

True.

Bogsnorkler said:

personally I don’t think gun laws need to be strengthened. Just enforce the current ones better. 30 odd years since the last mass shooting isn’t a bad record.

Well, that’s the thing. Albo has to be seen to be doing something about this horrific event. Even before Port Arthur, Australia wasn’t having regular mass shootings.

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

wtf is all this though

7m 8s
Police are seen approaching the shooting position from multiple directions.

The next few minutes, until the video ends, are chaotic.

A handful of police, who were just involved in the gun fight, desperately try to secure the scene and provide first aid, as bystanders approach from all directions.

At the same time, one man starts to physically assault another bystander.

Another is seen running into the scene multiple times to hit the shooter on the ground.

Unfortunately, this video is not being shown to the general public so we have to go on whatever we are told.

sorry we mean assuming that they describe it as seen, and we have no reason to doubt their description, and for the purposes of this discussion we should take it as given

who the f are these idiot cowards who suddenly appear after police have neutralised the armed threat, who jump in and pile on and fk around making the police’s job harder

like one thing if you were trying to help and they had to say no just stand back and stay safe

but sounds like they should burn all these jokers for interfering with a crime scene at the very least

Bogsnorkler said:

personally I don’t think gun laws need to be strengthened. Just enforce the current ones better. 30 odd years since the last mass shooting isn’t a bad record.

Fair comment.

Divine Angel said:

roughbarked said:

Bogsnorkler said:

personally I don’t think gun laws need to be strengthened. Just enforce the current ones better. 30 odd years since the last mass shooting isn’t a bad record.

True.

Well, that’s the thing. Albo has to be seen to be doing something about this horrific event. Even before Port Arthur, Australia wasn’t having regular mass shootings.

sure, he should do something

we’d be rapt if pretty much all he did was stick it to the fucking arseholes overseas (and their sycophants here) and point out that yes the laws are working as intended, once in 30 years is not perfect but a damn sight better than the alternative, and they can take their bullshit advice and commentary to hell with them thank them very much

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

wtf is all this though

7m 8s
Police are seen approaching the shooting position from multiple directions.

The next few minutes, until the video ends, are chaotic.

A handful of police, who were just involved in the gun fight, desperately try to secure the scene and provide first aid, as bystanders approach from all directions.

At the same time, one man starts to physically assault another bystander.

Another is seen running into the scene multiple times to hit the shooter on the ground.

Unfortunately, this video is not being shown to the general public so we have to go on whatever we are told.

what are you talking about? this video has been shown numerous times.

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

SCIENCE said:

wtf is all this though

7m 8s
Police are seen approaching the shooting position from multiple directions.

The next few minutes, until the video ends, are chaotic.

A handful of police, who were just involved in the gun fight, desperately try to secure the scene and provide first aid, as bystanders approach from all directions.

At the same time, one man starts to physically assault another bystander.

Another is seen running into the scene multiple times to hit the shooter on the ground.

Unfortunately, this video is not being shown to the general public so we have to go on whatever we are told.

what are you talking about? this video has been shown numerous times.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-12-15/abc-news-verify-bondi-beach-terrorist-last-six-minutes/106143126

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

Unfortunately, this video is not being shown to the general public so we have to go on whatever we are told.

what are you talking about? this video has been shown numerous times.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-12-15/abc-news-verify-bondi-beach-terrorist-last-six-minutes/106143126

Hey look at the guy not on social media!

Divine Angel said:

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

what are you talking about? this video has been shown numerous times.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-12-15/abc-news-verify-bondi-beach-terrorist-last-six-minutes/106143126

Hey look at the guy not on social media!

No facebook.

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

Unfortunately, this video is not being shown to the general public so we have to go on whatever we are told.

what are you talking about? this video has been shown numerous times.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-12-15/abc-news-verify-bondi-beach-terrorist-last-six-minutes/106143126

you may need to widen your sources

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

what are you talking about? this video has been shown numerous times.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-12-15/abc-news-verify-bondi-beach-terrorist-last-six-minutes/106143126

you may need to widen your sources

I have no desire to watch the thing. Maybe if I was an investigating officer but I’m not.

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-12-15/abc-news-verify-bondi-beach-terrorist-last-six-minutes/106143126

you may need to widen your sources

I have no desire to watch the thing. Maybe if I was an investigating officer but I’m not.

I’ve no desire either, but I know it’s out there.

Divine Angel said:

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

you may need to widen your sources

I have no desire to watch the thing. Maybe if I was an investigating officer but I’m not.

I’ve no desire either, but I know it’s out there.

Clearly it was taken by a bystander and put out there.

SCIENCE said:

wtf is all this though

7m 8s
Police are seen approaching the shooting position from multiple directions.

The next few minutes, until the video ends, are chaotic.

A handful of police, who were just involved in the gun fight, desperately try to secure the scene and provide first aid, as bystanders approach from all directions.

At the same time, one man starts to physically assault another bystander.

Another is seen running into the scene multiple times to hit the shooter on the ground.

Where an I view this video?

kii said:

SCIENCE said:

wtf is all this though

7m 8s
Police are seen approaching the shooting position from multiple directions.

The next few minutes, until the video ends, are chaotic.

A handful of police, who were just involved in the gun fight, desperately try to secure the scene and provide first aid, as bystanders approach from all directions.

At the same time, one man starts to physically assault another bystander.

Another is seen running into the scene multiple times to hit the shooter on the ground.

Where an I view this video?

https://www.google.com/search?q=Bondi+video&oq=Bondi+video

anyway when yous lot have all done yousr own research and video watching then we’ll come back to the question of how stupid and unhelpful the bystanders seem to be

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-12-15/abc-news-verify-bondi-beach-terrorist-last-six-minutes/106143126

you may need to widen your sources

I have no desire to watch the thing. Maybe if I was an investigating officer but I’m not.

No they are distasteful

Hopefully people will not blame all Muslims or say Jewish people deserved it.
Hindsight is 20 / 20 and easy to blame others

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-12-15/abc-news-verify-bondi-beach-terrorist-last-six-minutes/106143126

you may need to widen your sources

I have no desire to watch the thing. Maybe if I was an investigating officer but I’m not.

I think the police were in shock also, but they approached cautiously, meanwhile a civilian ventured onto the bridge and looked at the gunmen (from a short distance) then signaled to the cops, as the cops came in so did the public, this is where some mistakes were made as the police were kind of distracted by administering first aid to one of the gunmen, and did not set up a perimeter.. so bystanders came up onto the bridge and there was a bit of a pushy shovey, as some civilians tied to help by keeping others away and a couple leaned in and at least one got a stomp in on one of the gunmen… they were pushed away and then the car arrived and they began to remove the wounded gunman.

SCIENCE said:

anyway when yous lot have all done yousr own research and video watching then we’ll come back to the question of how stupid and unhelpful the bystanders seem to be

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect
Unless there’s a person dressed as Batman.

SCIENCE said:

anyway when yous lot have all done yousr own research and video watching then we’ll come back to the question of how stupid and unhelpful the bystanders seem to be

it is typical bystander behavior.. fight, flight, freeze, follow through. some allowed the enormity of the event and anger go through them, some fled and some just froze in spot. some assisted (one rather pointedly).

SCIENCE said:

anyway when yous lot have all done yousr own research and video watching then we’ll come back to the question of how stupid and unhelpful the bystanders seem to be

The vast majority of people will, when confronted by an event or a scene outside of their previous experience, be rendered pretty nuch immobile, and unable to offer help.

It’s all too much, they can’t process it, they just don’t know what to do. I’m sure that Mr. Mutant has seen that plenty of times.

It’s why people need training to be able to respond in such situations. They have to be able to say to themselves that they’ve prepared for this, that they do know what to do, and be confident that they can do it.

With enough training and practice, they can possibly do it without really thinking about it, they’ll just get busy without really thinking about it.

But, without that training and practice, the shock and surprise rules, and they just go blank.

Arts said:

some mistakes were made as the police were kind of distracted by administering first aid to one of the gunmen, and did not set up a perimeter.. so bystanders came up onto the bridge and there was a bit of a pushy shovey,

felt like something like that, hence our question as we’ve never set up a police perimeter nor been gunners within one

anyway, capitalism has spoken

https://www.news.com.au/finance/money/billionaire-makes-offer-of-reward-to-hero-who-disarmed-evil-bondi-terrorist/news-story/fad3e70f67c49311af4d0565c01b1ebb

captain_spalding said:

I’m sure that Mr. Mutant has seen that plenty of times.

👀

Divine Angel said:

SCIENCE said:

anyway when yous lot have all done yousr own research and video watching then we’ll come back to the question of how stupid and unhelpful the bystanders seem to be

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect
Unless there’s a person dressed as Batman.

I think this bystander effect has moved on even from this. The world has changed (again after Kitty, and after James Bulger) and the actions of bystanders has changed. We see far more people willing to speak up and place themselves in harms way these days.

SCIENCE said:

Arts said:

some mistakes were made as the police were kind of distracted by administering first aid to one of the gunmen, and did not set up a perimeter.. so bystanders came up onto the bridge and there was a bit of a pushy shovey,

felt like something like that, hence our question as we’ve never set up a police perimeter nor been gunners within one

anyway, capitalism has spoken

https://www.news.com.au/finance/money/billionaire-makes-offer-of-reward-to-hero-who-disarmed-evil-bondi-terrorist/news-story/fad3e70f67c49311af4d0565c01b1ebb

Don’t forget the car business who set up the GoFundMe in the first place.

SCIENCE said:

Arts said:

some mistakes were made as the police were kind of distracted by administering first aid to one of the gunmen, and did not set up a perimeter.. so bystanders came up onto the bridge and there was a bit of a pushy shovey,

felt like something like that, hence our question as we’ve never set up a police perimeter nor been gunners within one

anyway, capitalism has spoken

https://www.news.com.au/finance/money/billionaire-makes-offer-of-reward-to-hero-who-disarmed-evil-bondi-terrorist/news-story/fad3e70f67c49311af4d0565c01b1ebb

Huh!

captain_spalding said:

Arts said:

SCIENCE said:

anyway when yous lot have all done yousr own research and video watching then we’ll come back to the question of how stupid and unhelpful the bystanders seem to be

it is typical bystander behavior.. fight, flight, freeze, follow through. some allowed the enormity of the event and anger go through them, some fled and some just froze in spot. some assisted (one rather pointedly).

The vast majority of people will, when confronted by an event or a scene outside of their previous experience, be rendered pretty nuch immobile, and unable to offer help.

It’s all too much, they can’t process it, they just don’t know what to do. I’m sure that Mr. Mutant has seen that plenty of times.

It’s why people need training to be able to respond in such situations. They have to be able to say to themselves that they’ve prepared for this, that they do know what to do, and be confident that they can do it.

With enough training and practice, they can possibly do it without really thinking about it, they’ll just get busy without really thinking about it.

But, without that training and practice, the shock and surprise rules, and they just go blank.

yeah we get that bit, even if we were trained and ready to move we’re not going to claim we would rush some guy with a rifle if we were unarmed and they were pointing at us

more the mêlée when police got to the guy, idiots shoving past them to get in there, that gave us the wtf feels, maybe Australians haven’t been exposed to many big attacks on home soil, we would have thought something like this happens you would get the fuck out of there before the secondary explosive goes off

SCIENCE said:

kii said:

SCIENCE said:

wtf is all this though

7m 8s
Police are seen approaching the shooting position from multiple directions.

The next few minutes, until the video ends, are chaotic.

A handful of police, who were just involved in the gun fight, desperately try to secure the scene and provide first aid, as bystanders approach from all directions.

At the same time, one man starts to physically assault another bystander.

Another is seen running into the scene multiple times to hit the shooter on the ground.

Where can* I view this video?

https://www.google.com/search?q=Bondi+video&oq=Bondi+video

Yeah, thanks a lot 🙄

*fixed

SCIENCE said:

Arts said:

some mistakes were made as the police were kind of distracted by administering first aid to one of the gunmen, and did not set up a perimeter.. so bystanders came up onto the bridge and there was a bit of a pushy shovey,

felt like something like that, hence our question as we’ve never set up a police perimeter nor been gunners within one

anyway, capitalism has spoken

https://www.news.com.au/finance/money/billionaire-makes-offer-of-reward-to-hero-who-disarmed-evil-bondi-terrorist/news-story/fad3e70f67c49311af4d0565c01b1ebb

the footage of the police car being brought to the bridge was also interesting – the policewoman was clearly in shock and not really responding until a fellow officer grabbed her vest at kid of shook her then she sprung into action – I was intrigued by that, and wish I could see the body cam footage of it… but then I also noticed that there was a body on the road just in frint of the car, and I wonder if she saw that as she pulled up and was unprepared for it…

I dont know if we can blame them for that sort of oversite (to neglect perimeter protocols) in light of the event – even well trained responders to shooters make huge mistakes ahem Uvalde ahem…

SCIENCE said:

captain_spalding said:

Arts said:

it is typical bystander behavior.. fight, flight, freeze, follow through. some allowed the enormity of the event and anger go through them, some fled and some just froze in spot. some assisted (one rather pointedly).

The vast majority of people will, when confronted by an event or a scene outside of their previous experience, be rendered pretty nuch immobile, and unable to offer help.

It’s all too much, they can’t process it, they just don’t know what to do. I’m sure that Mr. Mutant has seen that plenty of times.

It’s why people need training to be able to respond in such situations. They have to be able to say to themselves that they’ve prepared for this, that they do know what to do, and be confident that they can do it.

With enough training and practice, they can possibly do it without really thinking about it, they’ll just get busy without really thinking about it.

But, without that training and practice, the shock and surprise rules, and they just go blank.

yeah we get that bit, even if we were trained and ready to move we’re not going to claim we would rush some guy with a rifle if we were unarmed and they were pointing at us

more the mêlée when police got to the guy, idiots shoving past them to get in there, that gave us the wtf feels, maybe Australians haven’t been exposed to many big attacks on home soil, we would have thought something like this happens you would get the fuck out of there before the secondary explosive goes off

Better than standing there videoing the bloodbath to post on social media.

SCIENCE said:

captain_spalding said:

Arts said:

it is typical bystander behavior.. fight, flight, freeze, follow through. some allowed the enormity of the event and anger go through them, some fled and some just froze in spot. some assisted (one rather pointedly).

The vast majority of people will, when confronted by an event or a scene outside of their previous experience, be rendered pretty nuch immobile, and unable to offer help.

It’s all too much, they can’t process it, they just don’t know what to do. I’m sure that Mr. Mutant has seen that plenty of times.

It’s why people need training to be able to respond in such situations. They have to be able to say to themselves that they’ve prepared for this, that they do know what to do, and be confident that they can do it.

With enough training and practice, they can possibly do it without really thinking about it, they’ll just get busy without really thinking about it.

But, without that training and practice, the shock and surprise rules, and they just go blank.

yeah we get that bit, even if we were trained and ready to move we’re not going to claim we would rush some guy with a rifle if we were unarmed and they were pointing at us

more the mêlée when police got to the guy, idiots shoving past them to get in there, that gave us the wtf feels, maybe Australians haven’t been exposed to many big attacks on home soil, we would have thought something like this happens you would get the fuck out of there before the secondary explosive goes off

Especially as the first explosion is to gather people for the larger one

I suspect by the time the police neutralized and reached the bridge they were still unsure if there was the possibility of another gunman, they may have heard or speculated about incendiary devices. The slight delay in them storming the bridge (allowing a citizen to do it first) tells me that they understood the possibility of incendiary devices being involved, which would have triggered another set of protocols – that then had to be withdrawn when civilians went up on the bridge.

This sort of event is likely far more easier to enact than anyone would be aware and nothing anyone could do to stop it.
I mean it you decided to go out one day and kill people I imagine you’d not be stopped.
I’m not suggesting this just how easy it probably is to do

Cymek said:

This sort of event is likely far more easier to enact than anyone would be aware and nothing anyone could do to stop it.
I mean it you decided to go out one day and kill people I imagine you’d not be stopped.
I’m not suggesting this just how easy it probably is to do

Look at the Bondi stabbings. Dude just waltzed in and started stabbing people til a cop took him down.

Cymek said:

This sort of event is likely far more easier to enact than anyone would be aware and nothing anyone could do to stop it.
I mean it you decided to go out one day and kill people I imagine you’d not be stopped.
I’m not suggesting this just how easy it probably is to do

if early reports are to be believed, then this was a highly organized and planned incident. I don’t think they executed their plan completely, but that doesn’t matter. If you are planning something like this you look for weaknesses, and exploit them. they had distance, height, coverage, motivation, and lowered guard targets.

Arts said:

Cymek said:

This sort of event is likely far more easier to enact than anyone would be aware and nothing anyone could do to stop it.
I mean it you decided to go out one day and kill people I imagine you’d not be stopped.
I’m not suggesting this just how easy it probably is to do

if early reports are to be believed, then this was a highly organized and planned incident. I don’t think they executed their plan completely, but that doesn’t matter. If you are planning something like this you look for weaknesses, and exploit them. they had distance, height, coverage, motivation, and lowered guard targets.

plus being father and son no need to organise anyone via social media.

Incredibly sad time for so many families, and for the Sydney Jewish community generally. This will cast a pall over Hanukkah for many years to come.

Divine Angel said:

Yeah, look, I don’t know the answer. We’ve already got some of the tightest gun laws in the world.

This might seem a terrible thing to say but there’s probably no way to reduce the frequency to zero, and once in a quarter century is probably about as good as it will get.

dv said:

Incredibly sad time for so many families, and for the Sydney Jewish community generally. This will cast a pall over Hanukkah for many years to come.

I keep wondering if any of them were relatives or friends of Jewish friends i had years ago. Worse, were any of them those friends themselves? I haven’t seen all of the names.

dv said:

Divine Angel said:

Yeah, look, I don’t know the answer. We’ve already got some of the tightest gun laws in the world.

This might seem a terrible thing to say but there’s probably no way to reduce the frequency to zero, and once in a quarter century is probably about as good as it will get.

There’s the rub.

Just because you’re a rat-bag doesn’t mean that you aren’t cunning.

If you’re that much of a turd, and really determined, you’ll find a way to do it, whatever the rules say.

SCIENCE said:

anyway when yous lot have all done yousr own research and video watching then we’ll come back to the question of how stupid and unhelpful the bystanders seem to be

Man if I were at the beach with my family and this happened, my sole thought would be getting them to safety.

Cymek said:

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

you may need to widen your sources

I have no desire to watch the thing. Maybe if I was an investigating officer but I’m not.

No they are distasteful

Hopefully people will not blame all Muslims or say Jewish people deserved it.
Hindsight is 20 / 20 and easy to blame others

+1

Divine Angel said:

SCIENCE said:

anyway when yous lot have all done yousr own research and video watching then we’ll come back to the question of how stupid and unhelpful the bystanders seem to be

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect
Unless there’s a person dressed as Batman.

In future all beaches will be attended by someone dressed like Ahmed al Ahmed.

I heard mention on the news that after the father was tackled and his rifle taken off him, after retreating he went up to his son and got another rifle and resumed firing. We should all know to kneecap or otherwise disable active shooters should this ever happen to us. Unlikely but FYI just in case.

dv said:

Divine Angel said:

Yeah, look, I don’t know the answer. We’ve already got some of the tightest gun laws in the world.

This might seem a terrible thing to say but there’s probably no way to reduce the frequency to zero, and once in a quarter century is probably about as good as it will get.

Not that it is a great comfort, it is way better than being in the USA.

Witty Rejoinder said:

I heard mention on the news that after the father was tackled and his rifle taken off him, after retreating he went up to his son and got another rifle and resumed firing. We should all know to kneecap or otherwise disable active shooters should this ever happen to us. Unlikely but FYI just in case.

I wasn’t going to say it, but…

…when i saw the video of the disarming, i thought, ‘i’d shoot the bastard in the foot’ (or maybe the lower leg).

That’d (probably) not kill him, but he wouldn’t have been attacking anybody or fleeing afterwards.

captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I heard mention on the news that after the father was tackled and his rifle taken off him, after retreating he went up to his son and got another rifle and resumed firing. We should all know to kneecap or otherwise disable active shooters should this ever happen to us. Unlikely but FYI just in case.

I wasn’t going to say it, but…

…when i saw the video of the disarming, i thought, ‘i’d shoot the bastard in the foot’ (or maybe the lower leg).

That’d (probably) not kill him, but he wouldn’t have been attacking anybody or fleeing afterwards.

I believe the gun may have been empty.

captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I heard mention on the news that after the father was tackled and his rifle taken off him, after retreating he went up to his son and got another rifle and resumed firing. We should all know to kneecap or otherwise disable active shooters should this ever happen to us. Unlikely but FYI just in case.

I wasn’t going to say it, but…

…when i saw the video of the disarming, i thought, ‘i’d shoot the bastard in the foot’ (or maybe the lower leg).

That’d (probably) not kill him, but he wouldn’t have been attacking anybody or fleeing afterwards.

And the bastard would live to face the consequences.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Divine Angel said:

Yeah, look, I don’t know the answer. We’ve already got some of the tightest gun laws in the world.

This might seem a terrible thing to say but there’s probably no way to reduce the frequency to zero, and once in a quarter century is probably about as good as it will get.

Not that it is a great comfort, it is way better than being in the USA.

Yeah.

People are claiming that this is ‘the first mass shooting in Australia for 30 years’ (debatable), and ‘the worst one since Port Arthur in 1996’.

If this had happened in the US, it would have been ‘the worst mass shooting since’…let’s see…since…

…the 29th of last month.

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I heard mention on the news that after the father was tackled and his rifle taken off him, after retreating he went up to his son and got another rifle and resumed firing. We should all know to kneecap or otherwise disable active shooters should this ever happen to us. Unlikely but FYI just in case.

I wasn’t going to say it, but…

…when i saw the video of the disarming, i thought, ‘i’d shoot the bastard in the foot’ (or maybe the lower leg).

That’d (probably) not kill him, but he wouldn’t have been attacking anybody or fleeing afterwards.

I believe the gun may have been empty.

Oh.

In that case, i might have clubbed him with it.

captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

GetUp sent out an email asking people to put a lit candle in the window in solidarity with the victims of yesterday. Has this gained traction at all? Anything on TV, radio, social media? Or does it only work with cricket bats?

You’d be better off asking the fire brigade.

LOL

captain_spalding said:

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

I wasn’t going to say it, but…

…when i saw the video of the disarming, i thought, ‘i’d shoot the bastard in the foot’ (or maybe the lower leg).

That’d (probably) not kill him, but he wouldn’t have been attacking anybody or fleeing afterwards.

I believe the gun may have been empty.

Oh.

In that case, i might have clubbed him with it.

Me too. Right in the cojones.

roughbarked said:

dv said:

Divine Angel said:

Yeah, look, I don’t know the answer. We’ve already got some of the tightest gun laws in the world.

This might seem a terrible thing to say but there’s probably no way to reduce the frequency to zero, and once in a quarter century is probably about as good as it will get.

Not that it is a great comfort, it is way better than being in the USA.

Wow! Really?! Are you sure?
🙄

kii said:

roughbarked said:

dv said:

This might seem a terrible thing to say but there’s probably no way to reduce the frequency to zero, and once in a quarter century is probably about as good as it will get.

Not that it is a great comfort, it is way better than being in the USA.

Wow! Really?! Are you sure?
🙄

to be fair we should just Let It Rip ®, people got to die of something

captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I heard mention on the news that after the father was tackled and his rifle taken off him, after retreating he went up to his son and got another rifle and resumed firing. We should all know to kneecap or otherwise disable active shooters should this ever happen to us. Unlikely but FYI just in case.

I wasn’t going to say it, but…

…when i saw the video of the disarming, i thought, ‘i’d shoot the bastard in the foot’ (or maybe the lower leg).

That’d (probably) not kill him, but he wouldn’t have been attacking anybody or fleeing afterwards.

It’s possible he had no idea how to operate a firearm.

dv said:

captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I heard mention on the news that after the father was tackled and his rifle taken off him, after retreating he went up to his son and got another rifle and resumed firing. We should all know to kneecap or otherwise disable active shooters should this ever happen to us. Unlikely but FYI just in case.

I wasn’t going to say it, but…

…when i saw the video of the disarming, i thought, ‘i’d shoot the bastard in the foot’ (or maybe the lower leg).

That’d (probably) not kill him, but he wouldn’t have been attacking anybody or fleeing afterwards.

It’s possible he had no idea how to operate a firearm.

Yeah, i forget that not everyone knows how to do that. And it’s sort of nice that not everyone does.

But, he still could have donged the arsehole with it. :)

captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I heard mention on the news that after the father was tackled and his rifle taken off him, after retreating he went up to his son and got another rifle and resumed firing. We should all know to kneecap or otherwise disable active shooters should this ever happen to us. Unlikely but FYI just in case.

I wasn’t going to say it, but…

…when i saw the video of the disarming, i thought, ‘i’d shoot the bastard in the foot’ (or maybe the lower leg).

That’d (probably) not kill him, but he wouldn’t have been attacking anybody or fleeing afterwards.

someone was talking about how [today] they learned about the Fallacy of the Talking Killer just the other day damn we knew something like this was about to happen

Divine Angel said:

Cymek said:

This sort of event is likely far more easier to enact than anyone would be aware and nothing anyone could do to stop it.
I mean it you decided to go out one day and kill people I imagine you’d not be stopped.
I’m not suggesting this just how easy it probably is to do

Look at the Bondi stabbings. Dude just waltzed in and started stabbing people til a cop took him down.

We thought that was impulsive and mentally disordered, as opposed to planned¿

dv said:

captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I heard mention on the news that after the father was tackled and his rifle taken off him, after retreating he went up to his son and got another rifle and resumed firing. We should all know to kneecap or otherwise disable active shooters should this ever happen to us. Unlikely but FYI just in case.

I wasn’t going to say it, but…

…when i saw the video of the disarming, i thought, ‘i’d shoot the bastard in the foot’ (or maybe the lower leg).

That’d (probably) not kill him, but he wouldn’t have been attacking anybody or fleeing afterwards.

It’s possible he had no idea how to operate a firearm.

Unlikely: I understand that in his previous life in Syria, he was a policeman.

captain_spalding said:

dv said:

captain_spalding said:

I wasn’t going to say it, but…

…when i saw the video of the disarming, i thought, ‘i’d shoot the bastard in the foot’ (or maybe the lower leg).

That’d (probably) not kill him, but he wouldn’t have been attacking anybody or fleeing afterwards.

It’s possible he had no idea how to operate a firearm.

Yeah, i forget that not everyone knows how to do that. And it’s sort of nice that not everyone does.

But, he still could have donged the arsehole with it. :)

so a good guy with the gun could have saved more lives

SCIENCE said:

captain_spalding said:

dv said:

It’s possible he had no idea how to operate a firearm.

Yeah, i forget that not everyone knows how to do that. And it’s sort of nice that not everyone does.

But, he still could have donged the arsehole with it. :)

so a good guy with the gun could have saved more lives

2A FTW

captain_spalding said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

I heard mention on the news that after the father was tackled and his rifle taken off him, after retreating he went up to his son and got another rifle and resumed firing. We should all know to kneecap or otherwise disable active shooters should this ever happen to us. Unlikely but FYI just in case.

I wasn’t going to say it, but…

…when i saw the video of the disarming, i thought, ‘i’d shoot the bastard in the foot’ (or maybe the lower leg).

That’d (probably) not kill him, but he wouldn’t have been attacking anybody or fleeing afterwards.

A round through the kneecap would have stopped him from doing pretty much anything. Or a hand.

The gunman was disarmed and retreating.

captain_spalding said:

dv said:

captain_spalding said:

I wasn’t going to say it, but…

…when i saw the video of the disarming, i thought, ‘i’d shoot the bastard in the foot’ (or maybe the lower leg).

That’d (probably) not kill him, but he wouldn’t have been attacking anybody or fleeing afterwards.

It’s possible he had no idea how to operate a firearm.

Yeah, i forget that not everyone knows how to do that. And it’s sort of nice that not everyone does.

But, he still could have donged the arsehole with it. :)

There’s no question of the mans bravery, but holding a rifle and pointing it is one sure way of getting shot be police.
He is a brave man and a lucky one.

Peak Warming Man said:

captain_spalding said:

dv said:

It’s possible he had no idea how to operate a firearm.

Yeah, i forget that not everyone knows how to do that. And it’s sort of nice that not everyone does.

But, he still could have donged the arsehole with it. :)

There’s no question of the mans bravery, but holding a rifle and pointing it is one sure way of getting shot be police.
He is a brave man and a lucky one.

oh did we mention he looked ethnic and had an ethnic name as well

probably a perp’ it’s obvious

SCIENCE said:

Divine Angel said:

Cymek said:

This sort of event is likely far more easier to enact than anyone would be aware and nothing anyone could do to stop it.
I mean it you decided to go out one day and kill people I imagine you’d not be stopped.
I’m not suggesting this just how easy it probably is to do

Look at the Bondi stabbings. Dude just waltzed in and started stabbing people til a cop took him down.

We thought that was impulsive and mentally disordered, as opposed to planned¿

I think DA was suggesting that people usually retreat rather than engage even if the weapon is only a knife. If you have to disarm someone with a knife all you really need to do is use an item of clothing to protect your hands and try wrench it off them. You probably need to have quick reflexes and good hand-eye coordination though.

Arts said:

The gunman was disarmed and retreating.

staying out of the matter of whether one could act in the heat of the moment and the safety of doing anything more, we don’t think that above is the right consideration, if they’ve already done enough stuff to justify a citizen’s arrest then letting them retreat seems incorrect

SCIENCE said:

Arts said:

The gunman was disarmed and retreating.

staying out of the matter of whether one could act in the heat of the moment and the safety of doing anything more, we don’t think that above is the right consideration, if they’ve already done enough stuff to justify a citizen’s arrest then letting them retreat seems incorrect

Just hold them face-down and wait for a member of the public to stomp on their head.

Witty Rejoinder said:

SCIENCE said:

Divine Angel said:

Look at the Bondi stabbings. Dude just waltzed in and started stabbing people til a cop took him down.

We thought that was impulsive and mentally disordered, as opposed to planned¿

I think DA was suggesting that people usually retreat rather than engage even if the weapon is only a knife. If you have to disarm someone with a knife all you really need to do is use an item of clothing to protect your hands and try wrench it off them. You probably need to have quick reflexes and good hand-eye coordination though.

tbh we’d probably prefer a stick or something longer than whatever blade they were holding

but yes as dv says we’d be looking to get somewhere safe in the first instance

the jokers who all waited until police got some bullets in the right place, then dived in to mess things up, stink of cowardice and unhelpfulness

Witty Rejoinder said:

SCIENCE said:

Divine Angel said:

Look at the Bondi stabbings. Dude just waltzed in and started stabbing people til a cop took him down.

We thought that was impulsive and mentally disordered, as opposed to planned¿

I think DA was suggesting that people usually retreat rather than engage even if the weapon is only a knife. If you have to disarm someone with a knife all you really need to do is use an item of clothing to protect your hands and try wrench it off them. You probably need to have quick reflexes and good hand-eye coordination though.

From Wikipedia:

“ Several shoppers confronted the man, barring his passage to certain areas, as well as grabbing tools from nearby stores to defend themselves. Phone video showed one man, later identified as French construction worker Damien Guerot, preventing the perpetrator from climbing an escalator to a higher floor by brandishing a bollard at him.

“ The perpetrator ran around the third floor and tried to access the fourth floor via an escalator. The two Frenchmen, Damien Guerot and Silas Despreaux, rescued a woman on the escalator and tried to block him with bollards. Eventually, the two men threw their bollards at Cauchi and ran out of the mall.”

Witty Rejoinder said:

SCIENCE said:

Arts said:

The gunman was disarmed and retreating.

staying out of the matter of whether one could act in the heat of the moment and the safety of doing anything more, we don’t think that above is the right consideration, if they’ve already done enough stuff to justify a citizen’s arrest then letting them retreat seems incorrect

Just hold them face-down and wait for a member of the public to stomp on their head.

different circumstances but

I had to disarm two people (separately and on different days) at a mine I worked at overseas.

One was armed with a home-made ice pick and was attacking the (female) laboratory assayist.

The other was armed with a crow-bar and a sledge-hammer and was the strongest man at the mine. He had lost it and was wrecking the crib room because somebody had stolen his drink from the fridge.

Scary.

Michael V said:

I had to disarm two people (separately and on different days) at a mine I worked at overseas.

One was armed with a home-made ice pick and was attacking the (female) laboratory assayist.

The other was armed with a crow-bar and a sledge-hammer and was the strongest man at the mine. He had lost it and was wrecking the crib room because somebody had stolen his drink from the fridge.

Scary.

Well done Michael.

Peak Warming Man said:

Michael V said:

I had to disarm two people (separately and on different days) at a mine I worked at overseas.

One was armed with a home-made ice pick and was attacking the (female) laboratory assayist.

The other was armed with a crow-bar and a sledge-hammer and was the strongest man at the mine. He had lost it and was wrecking the crib room because somebody had stolen his drink from the fridge.

Scary.

Well done Michael.

Ta.

SCIENCE said:

Arts said:

The gunman was disarmed and retreating.

staying out of the matter of whether one could act in the heat of the moment and the safety of doing anything more, we don’t think that above is the right consideration, if they’ve already done enough stuff to justify a citizen’s arrest then letting them retreat seems incorrect

Well, I’m super glad Ahmed had both courage and emotional maturity to do what he did, and it wasn’t anyone here attempting the same.

I think everything that man did was exactly right.

I’ll leave you all to your speculating and rumour mongering now.

Witty Rejoinder said:

I think DA was suggesting that people usually retreat rather than engage even if the weapon is only a knife. If you have to disarm someone with a knife all you really need to do is use an item of clothing to protect your hands and try wrench it off them. You probably need to have quick reflexes and good hand-eye coordination though.

It’s something that everyone ought to try.

I mean, not for real, but with a friend playing the role of the knife-wielder, with a toy rubber knife or similar. Educational.

It takes a lot of practice to learn how to do it without the near certainty of ending up dead, or slashed to ribbons. Very dangerous.

Had a wee bit of training in it many years ago. Would avoid it if at all possible. Would still rather shoot ‘em, or at least clonk them with something lengthy and solid.

captain_spalding said:

Would still rather shoot ‘em, or at least clonk them with something lengthy and solid.

…if circumstances dictated that such action was necessary/unavoidable

Reality TV concept: we take all the people in my feeds saying this is a Mossad false flag op, and all the Americans who are saying “this is why gun control doesn’t work”, and we airlift them into an active volcano.

dv said:

Reality TV concept: we take all the people in my feeds saying this is a Mossad false flag op, and all the Americans who are saying “this is why gun control doesn’t work”, and we airlift them into an active volcano.

I have never watched more than tweny minutes of ‘reality’ TV, in total.

However, your concept intrigues me, and i wish to subscribe to whichever channel will back it.

dv said:

Reality TV concept: we take all the people in my feeds saying this is a Mossad false flag op, and all the Americans who are saying “this is why gun control doesn’t work”, and we airlift them into an active volcano.

Snort.

Bloody hell. My screen is now snot-covered. Good thing I’ve got a fresh hankie.

Still, I really needed that bit of hilarity.

:)

Arts said:

SCIENCE said:

Arts said:

The gunman was disarmed and retreating.

staying out of the matter of whether one could act in the heat of the moment and the safety of doing anything more, we don’t think that above is the right consideration, if they’ve already done enough stuff to justify a citizen’s arrest then letting them retreat seems incorrect

Well, I’m super glad Ahmed had both courage and emotional maturity to do what he did, and it wasn’t anyone here attempting the same.

I think everything that man did was exactly right.

I’ll leave you all to your speculating and rumour mongering now.

Hmmmm…

I know it’s anti-Semitic to equate all Jews with Israel, or to suggest that there is collective guilt for acts perpetrated by others who simply share your religious background, or ethnicity but the elephant in the room is that the growth in opposition to Israel, or hostility towards Jews, not just in Australia but world wide is the actions of Netanyahu and his far right coalition government in their policies towards Gaza.

I mean C’mon when Bush invaded Iraq after 9/11 we even had the Dixie Chicks protesting by saying he’s ‘not their president’ and the protests in the US were large enough to more than adequately inform the world that not all Americans supported the invasion. Hell Sean Penn even made his silly trip to Baghdad before the war in solidarity with Saddam.

Now the protests in Tel Aviv conducted weekly for months and years informed anyone who cared to know that Israel’s conduct in Gaza was not universally supported by Jewish Israelis and that there was strong opposition to their PM and his coalition of right-wing parties in their failure to prevent October 7, or to bring the hostages back, or to end the indiscriminate killing of Gazan civilians but it seems to me that there is not the similar pushback by Jews in the diaspora particularly in the Anglophone countries.

For all the coverage in Australia one would think that all Australian Jews support the conduct of the Israeli government when that is clearly not the case but besides a few journalists of Jewish background elucidating the sadness they feel for defenceless Gazans, and occasional articles about particular peacenik Jewish organisations the uninformed, especially those on the political left, might easily assume that all Jews were in lock-step with Netanyahu.

This is a major problem and had been festering for years since Oct 7 and before concerning settler actions in the West-Bank. Why are Anglophone Jews by and large reluctant to criticise Israel? It’s almost as though they believe in collective guilt and feel as though a united front is the best thing for their fellow Jews.

This failure to differentiate between their religion, their spiritual homeland and their nationality has troubled me for some time but until yesterday it hasn’t been worth mentioning but it strikes me as a huge own goal that has only made things worse for Jews in Australia. It certainly hasn’t helped their cause and pushback from the diaspora might even bring some compassion and reason out in Netanyahu.

…

Jacinta Allan booed and heckled while attending Hanukkah event

By Nicole Precel, Cameron Houston, Cassandra Morgan, Melissa Cunningham and Chip Le Grand
Updated December 15, 2025 — 9.49pmfirst published at 8.37pm

Victorian Premier Jacinta Allan has been booed and heckled at a Hanukkah event in Caulfield.

The premier attended the Caulfield Shule on Monday night along with most of her cabinet ministers, Opposition Leader Jess Wilson and federal MPs from across the political divide.

Despite this gesture of non-partisan support for the Jewish community in the wake of the Bondi massacre, the congregation gave Allan a hostile reception.

Wilson, by contrast, received warm applause. The biggest ovation was reserved for members of the CSG, the Jewish community security group which guards Jewish events, schools and places of worship.

It comes as Melbourne’s Jewish community expressed fury and profound sadness for the victims of the horrific attack at Bondi Beach.

At a Hanukkah celebration at Renfrey Gardens in St Kilda, Rabbi Effy Block lit the menorah candles, less than 24 hours after people were murdered celebrating the same festival in Bondi.

“We can’t shy away,” he said.

“We have to continue being proud. We have no other choice.”

Block’s friends and colleagues were among the 15 murdered, including Eli Schlanger, an assistant rabbi at Chabad of Bondi; Rabbi Yaakov Levitan, secretary of the Jewish organisation Beth Din; and businessman Reuven Morrison.

“That’s what my colleagues in Sydney, those who were murdered, they would have wanted is for us not to cower away and cancel every event but go even stronger.”

His sister, Chavi Block, was with her six-month-old son at Bondi’s Chanukah by the Sea celebration, chatting to her friend about weekend beach plans. “Everything was nice,” she said, before she heard ‘fireworks’. The sky was empty.

Then security yelled, “Down, down, down”, and she slumped her body over her baby, trying to protect him as he screamed.

“No, no, this can’t be happening. I am in Australia. People don’t have guns. This can’t be happening,” Block remembers thinking.

At the small Hanukkah celebration in St Kilda, people ate latkes and doughnuts, children played in a petting zoo and armed security guards stood by.

Local Deborah Leiser-Moore, who stayed home from work on Monday, said although the event was tinged with sadness, nothing should stop her from celebrating. She had planned to bring her grandson to the event, but the family had decided not to come.

Denise Fradkin said she felt incredibly upset and horrified about what had happened in Bondi.

“It’s never going to be the same again,” she said.

Addressing the crowd, Rabbi Block asked why they lit the Hanukkah candles after dark.

“It’s because we understand and recognise there is darkness in the world,” he said.

CCTV captures moment alleged Bondi shooters embark on terror mission
“We don’t ignore it, we don’t say it doesn’t exist. We embrace it. We understand we are living in a tough world; that’s precisely the message of Hanukkah. We, each and every one of us, has the mandate to light up the world with kindness to eradicate evil,” he said.

At the Pillars of Light event at Federation Square on Monday, Rabbi Gabi Kaltmann remembered Reuven Morris – who lived between Melbourne and Sydney – as a man who “single-handedly built the Chabad Bondi Synagogue” and who came to Australia in search of a better life.

“He was the most beautiful man. You would see him, and he’d greet you with his Australian-Russian accent, and he’d give you a handshake and hug with this gorgeous smile that would light up the room,” Kaltmann told the ABC. “He’d tell you you’re doing well and everything’s OK.”

Morris is survived by his wife, daughter and grandchildren.

Speaking to the small crowd of dozens of people, who were surrounded by police, Kaltmann described Sunday’s scenes as unimaginable.

“It is unfathomable, unimaginable, something out of our worst nightmares. Something that as Australians, we read about in the press, something that happens in lands and countries far away, not on our beautiful sun-kissed shores,” he said.

After calling for a minute of silence to honour the victims, Kaltmann vowed the Jewish community would not be bullied into submission, or into hiding their “Jewishness” in the wake of the tragedy.

In Ripponlea, where the Adass Israel synagogue was firebombed in a targeted attack in December 2024, locals seethed about what they saw as a failure of governments and the broader Australian public to respond to, or even recognise, the growing threat of antisemitism.

“I’m always hearing that we’re paranoid and that we somehow exaggerate these threats. But this is the reason we have to have security guards outside schools and synagogues. People just don’t seem to believe us,” one Jewish man, who asked not to be named, said.

“There’s this tragedy in Sydney and suddenly we have police walking up and down the street and this outpouring of concern, but none of this was a surprise. It was expected,” he said.

One woman from Caulfield, who asked to be identified as Lyla, said Melbourne’s Jewish community felt vulnerable and unsupported.

“It feels like we’re back in 1939, and not enough is being done to protect us. We should not have to hide. The people who you expect to have your back just don’t do anything,” she said.

What we know about the victims of Bondi terror attack so far
Her friend, Simon, who declined to give his surname, said most people were apathetic about the surge in antisemitic vitriol faced by Jewish people in Melbourne.

“We need to have the support of Australia. We need for people to stand in solidarity with the Jewish community. This is happening, and we need to be believed,” he said.

Local barista Eli Leibler, who wears a kippah and shield of David to work each day, said he was proud to speak on behalf of his community.

“While I’m grateful for the support and love of our wider community, we had the same thing on October 8 , and again on December 6 when the synagogue was torched. I’m over it. And I think Jewish people are over being told what antisemitism is,” he said.

“There’s enough rage and enough pain. But if I had a message, it would be that we are a forgiving people, but not a forgetful people. Countless civilisations have come and gone. We have both suffered and thrived under them, but we are not bitter. We look forward to being embraced and continuing to flourish in Australia,” Leibler said.

He said his cafe had always been a junction for Jewish, non-Jewish, secular and Orthodox communities, and a sanctuary for all.

Jewish Community Council of Victoria chief executive Naomi Levin encouraged her community, with support from police and government, to make sure their children attended school.

“I find it really challenging to even be considering pulling Jewish kids out of school when every other Australian child can safely go to school without a second thought this morning.”

Only a year ago, Levin was standing in front of the firebombed Adass Israel synagogue and thinking: “It can’t get any worse than this.”

On Sunday night, she said, she was dreading hearing the names of the victims of the Bondi shooting.

“We just want to live peaceful lives as Jewish people.”

Federal Labor member for Macnamara Josh Burns said in a statement that Hanukkah was a festival of “hope, resilience and tradition”.

“But now it has turned into something of unimaginable pain. And our hearts are broken,” Burns said. “Over the next few days, we will all work together to support one another.”

State MP David Southwick, the member for Caulfield, called the shooting “an assault on the very existence of Jews in Australia. Many in the Victorian Jewish community know someone who has been impacted,” Southwick wrote on social media.

“This violence has been escalating over the past two years, and this tragedy represents a devastating peak.”

Former governor of Victoria Linda Dessau, the first Jewish person to hold the position, echoed a similar sentiment on Monday.

“Some of the things we feared most have now come to pass. And I think it’s the time, when we’ve seen from the country’s worst terrorist attack in our history, that the stakes are just too high to delude ourselves about what’s been happening here. Across the last two years, there’s been a permissiveness about antisemitism and hate often dressed up as freedom of speech,” she said on radio station 3AW.

“The Jewish community, at the moment, are in deep mourning. They’re terrified, they’re hurt, they’re heartbroken. But that should make every Australian feel the same way.”

Victorians, meanwhile, have answered the nationwide call for blood donations to support those injured in the shootings.

The response was immediate and overwhelming. By Monday afternoon, blood donation centres in Melbourne’s CBD and Caulfield were almost booked out for the week.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/we-have-to-continue-being-proud-melbourne-s-jewish-community-reacts-to-bondi-tragedy-20251215-p5nnr5.html

Arts said:

SCIENCE said:

Arts said:

The gunman was disarmed and retreating.

staying out of the matter of whether one could act in the heat of the moment and the safety of doing anything more, we don’t think that above is the right consideration, if they’ve already done enough stuff to justify a citizen’s arrest then letting them retreat seems incorrect

Well, I’m super glad Ahmed had both courage and emotional maturity to do what he did, and it wasn’t anyone here attempting the same.

I think everything that man did was exactly right.

I’ll leave you all to your speculating and rumour mongering now.

sure so please educate the anyones here not attempting the same

what was exactly right about pointing the gun at the disarmed exshooter, and what was exactly right about letting them walk instead of restraining them

SCIENCE said:

Arts said:

SCIENCE said:

staying out of the matter of whether one could act in the heat of the moment and the safety of doing anything more, we don’t think that above is the right consideration, if they’ve already done enough stuff to justify a citizen’s arrest then letting them retreat seems incorrect

Well, I’m super glad Ahmed had both courage and emotional maturity to do what he did, and it wasn’t anyone here attempting the same.

I think everything that man did was exactly right.

I’ll leave you all to your speculating and rumour mongering now.

sure so please educate the anyones here not attempting the same

what was exactly right about pointing the gun at the disarmed exshooter, and what was exactly right about letting them walk instead of restraining them

Arts is a little precious about these things…

SCIENCE said:

what was exactly right about pointing the gun at the disarmed exshooter, and what was exactly right about letting them walk instead of restraining them

“what was exactly right about pointing the gun at the disarmed exshooter…”

It very readily communicated that ‘i have the gun now, don’t try to take it back, you may very well regret the attempt’.

“what was exactly right about letting them walk instead of restraining them”

The man on the spot made the decision. You or i might have made a different decision. Or we may have made the same decision as Ahmed. He’d taken the gun away from the shooter, he had eliminated that threat, he was not to know whether the shooter might subsequently have access to other guns, the man was backing away and not attacking him, Ahmed may have been aware that the other shooter was able to fire at him (he was subsequently hit twice) and thus didn’t want to pursue the man, and he may have had some moral qualms about shooting someone who was running away

He undoubtedly had a lot going through his mind, in a very stressful situation. It would be very presumptuous of us to criticise his decisions. We can suggest what we ourselves might have thought of doing, but we’re in no position to question what he did or didn’t do.

what is it some sort of fatalistic martyrdom, limits the cognitive horizon. Vengeance, aggression that way.

not meaning to give it respect by intellectualizing it, but seriously there would have to be some limitations of metacognition involved.

anyway, good reason tighten gun licenses, to proving a practical need, more so.

liking guns should be a reason not to let someone have one.

In the 1970s, when I was a teenage,r the steps in front of the Bondi Beach pavilion were known as Little Jerusalem. All the Jewish teenagers would gather there. I sat further south in between the steps and The Tunnel aka a storm water drain.

captain_spalding said:

dv said:

Reality TV concept: we take all the people in my feeds saying this is a Mossad false flag op, and all the Americans who are saying “this is why gun control doesn’t work”, and we airlift them into an active volcano.

I have never watched more than tweny minutes of ‘reality’ TV, in total.

However, your concept intrigues me, and i wish to subscribe to whichever channel will back it.

The only reality TV I can recall actually watching was Sylvania Waters

SCIENCE said:

Arts said:

SCIENCE said:

staying out of the matter of whether one could act in the heat of the moment and the safety of doing anything more, we don’t think that above is the right consideration, if they’ve already done enough stuff to justify a citizen’s arrest then letting them retreat seems incorrect

Well, I’m super glad Ahmed had both courage and emotional maturity to do what he did, and it wasn’t anyone here attempting the same.

I think everything that man did was exactly right.

I’ll leave you all to your speculating and rumour mongering now.

sure so please educate the anyones here not attempting the same

what was exactly right about pointing the gun at the disarmed exshooter, and what was exactly right about letting them walk instead of restraining them

a) According to one report, he waited until the shooter needed to reload before disarming him. If true, the gun was therefore not going to persuade the terrorist to surrender.

b) The hero knew he needed to put the gun down quickly or the police might mistake him for one of the shooters.

c) It’s almost certain the terrorists had planned to die in this attack, so were very unlikely to surrender under any circumstances.

Bubblecar said:

SCIENCE said:

Arts said:

Well, I’m super glad Ahmed had both courage and emotional maturity to do what he did, and it wasn’t anyone here attempting the same.

I think everything that man did was exactly right.

I’ll leave you all to your speculating and rumour mongering now.

sure so please educate the anyones here not attempting the same

what was exactly right about pointing the gun at the disarmed exshooter, and what was exactly right about letting them walk instead of restraining them

a) According to one report, he waited until the shooter needed to reload before disarming him. If true, the gun was therefore not going to persuade the terrorist to surrender.

b) The hero knew he needed to put the gun down quickly or the police might mistake him for one of the shooters.

c) It’s almost certain the terrorists had planned to die in this attack, so were very unlikely to surrender under any circumstances.

Then why didn’t he put the gun down straight away¿

Just to be clear, we’re not in any way suggesting that we own a fruit shop, or that we would have jumped the guy of course like any real men would do, or that Ahmed Al Ahmed should have been better and had the time to consider all these matters in the seconds he had to act. We’re asking if it’s at all possible (even if it required training andor drug induced psychotic disregard for one’s own personal safety, but not completely outside the realm of possibility) there was an even better course of action for an individual in those circumstances.

For example, if you’re stopping a knife wielding attacker, once you have their knife, do you need to wave it in their face and then let them run to the kitchen and grab another knife, or can you secure the knife (in an inert object, or having someone else look after it) and then prevent the attacker from refreshing their attack¿

SCIENCE said:

Bubblecar said:

SCIENCE said:

sure so please educate the anyones here not attempting the same

what was exactly right about pointing the gun at the disarmed exshooter, and what was exactly right about letting them walk instead of restraining them

a) According to one report, he waited until the shooter needed to reload before disarming him. If true, the gun was therefore not going to persuade the terrorist to surrender.

b) The hero knew he needed to put the gun down quickly or the police might mistake him for one of the shooters.

c) It’s almost certain the terrorists had planned to die in this attack, so were very unlikely to surrender under any circumstances.

Then why didn’t he put the gun down straight away¿

Just to be clear, we’re not in any way suggesting that we own a fruit shop, or that we would have jumped the guy of course like any real men would do, or that Ahmed Al Ahmed should have been better and had the time to consider all these matters in the seconds he had to act. We’re asking if it’s at all possible (even if it required training andor drug induced psychotic disregard for one’s own personal safety, but not completely outside the realm of possibility) there was an even better course of action for an individual in those circumstances.

For example, if you’re stopping a knife wielding attacker, once you have their knife, do you need to wave it in their face and then let them run to the kitchen and grab another knife, or can you secure the knife (in an inert object, or having someone else look after it) and then prevent the attacker from refreshing their attack¿

He probably pointed the gun at the shooter as an instinctively aggressively stance, meaning “You’re not getting this gun back mister, so fuck off…”

Very likely Mr Ahmed was unaware that the shooter had other guns to use.

Bubblecar said:

SCIENCE said:

Bubblecar said:

a) According to one report, he waited until the shooter needed to reload before disarming him. If true, the gun was therefore not going to persuade the terrorist to surrender.

b) The hero knew he needed to put the gun down quickly or the police might mistake him for one of the shooters.

c) It’s almost certain the terrorists had planned to die in this attack, so were very unlikely to surrender under any circumstances.

Then why didn’t he put the gun down straight away¿

Just to be clear, we’re not in any way suggesting that we own a fruit shop, or that we would have jumped the guy of course like any real men would do, or that Ahmed Al Ahmed should have been better and had the time to consider all these matters in the seconds he had to act. We’re asking if it’s at all possible (even if it required training andor drug induced psychotic disregard for one’s own personal safety, but not completely outside the realm of possibility) there was an even better course of action for an individual in those circumstances.

For example, if you’re stopping a knife wielding attacker, once you have their knife, do you need to wave it in their face and then let them run to the kitchen and grab another knife, or can you secure the knife (in an inert object, or having someone else look after it) and then prevent the attacker from refreshing their attack¿

He probably pointed the gun at the shooter as an instinctively aggressively stance, meaning “You’re not getting this gun back mister, so fuck off…”

Very likely Mr Ahmed was unaware that the shooter had other guns to use.

Ahmed al Ahmed has had a lot of money donated to him (via Go Fund Me) from people all around the world who appreciate the amazing thing he has done. Currently the pledges approach $2M, up from $1.2M, 7 hours ago.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/zbcjn-support-the-hero-who-disarmed-a-bondi-attacker?ts=1765751457&utm_campaign=pd_ss_icons&utm_medium=customer&utm_source=copy_link

Michael V said:

Bubblecar said:

SCIENCE said:

Then why didn’t he put the gun down straight away¿

Just to be clear, we’re not in any way suggesting that we own a fruit shop, or that we would have jumped the guy of course like any real men would do, or that Ahmed Al Ahmed should have been better and had the time to consider all these matters in the seconds he had to act. We’re asking if it’s at all possible (even if it required training andor drug induced psychotic disregard for one’s own personal safety, but not completely outside the realm of possibility) there was an even better course of action for an individual in those circumstances.

For example, if you’re stopping a knife wielding attacker, once you have their knife, do you need to wave it in their face and then let them run to the kitchen and grab another knife, or can you secure the knife (in an inert object, or having someone else look after it) and then prevent the attacker from refreshing their attack¿

He probably pointed the gun at the shooter as an instinctively aggressively stance, meaning “You’re not getting this gun back mister, so fuck off…”

Very likely Mr Ahmed was unaware that the shooter had other guns to use.

Ahmed al Ahmed has had a lot of money donated to him (via Go Fund Me) from people all around the world who appreciate the amazing thing he has done. Currently the pledges approach $2M, up from $1.2M, 7 hours ago.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/zbcjn-support-the-hero-who-disarmed-a-bondi-attacker?ts=1765751457&utm_campaign=pd_ss_icons&utm_medium=customer&utm_source=copy_link

He was shot a number of times in the shoulder apparently. So he is going to be suffering from that for quite a while.

Ahmed al-Ahmed’s family said he was a Syrian police officer. Which would account for his actions.

kii said:

Ahmed al-Ahmed’s family said he was a Syrian police officer. Which would account for his actions.

Nods.

Michael V said:

kii said:

Ahmed al-Ahmed’s family said he was a Syrian police officer. Which would account for his actions.

Nods.

so Syrian police let perps go

Michael V said:

kii said:

Ahmed al-Ahmed’s family said he was a Syrian police officer. Which would account for his actions.

Nods.

that, and these:

Maybe he waited until the shooter had to reload.

But, then, he probably couldn’t be sure that the shooter didn’t have a pistol tucked away somewhere, so…

SCIENCE said:

Michael V said:

kii said:

Ahmed al-Ahmed’s family said he was a Syrian police officer. Which would account for his actions.

Nods.

so Syrian police let perps go

Maybe Ahmed tried to shoot the shooter, but found that the weapon was empty. I mean, he did point it at the shooter.

SCIENCE said:

Michael V said:

kii said:

Ahmed al-Ahmed’s family said he was a Syrian police officer. Which would account for his actions.

Nods.

so Syrian police let perps go

Only he can answer your questions about what he did or didn’t do.

I do note that he wasn’t a policeman in Australia. Whether that had anything to do with is actions, only he would know. I don’t intend to speculate.

Although some of the numbers are suprising, i’truth this could have been carried out by two men with one gun apiece.

dv said:

Although some of the numbers are suprising, i’truth this could have been carried out by two men with one gun apiece.

is it easier for potential terrorists to acquire one gun each if there are more guns in the community

dv said:

Although some of the numbers are suprising, i’truth this could have been carried out by two men with one gun apiece.

They’re just the licensed guns.

SCIENCE said:

dv said:

Although some of the numbers are suprising, i’truth this could have been carried out by two men with one gun apiece.

is it easier for potential terrorists to acquire one gun each if there are more guns in the community

A bit less expensive, perhaps, but the difficulty is unlikely to be more or less.

Lock things down all you like. If someone really wants a gun, they’ll get a gun.

It just might cost rather more.

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

dv said:

Although some of the numbers are suprising, i’truth this could have been carried out by two men with one gun apiece.

is it easier for potential terrorists to acquire one gun each if there are more guns in the community

A bit less expensive, perhaps, but the difficulty is unlikely to be more or less.

Lock things down all you like. If someone really wants a gun, they’ll get a gun.

It just might cost rather more.

I keep thinking about the Columbine shooters. Denied guns on their own, they enlisted an older friend to purchase guns from a gun show. Nowadays one can 3D print a weapon with instructions from the internet. Most pf them are probably pretty flimsy, but I have heard of ones capable of firing bullets.

Then of course is the dark web and friend-of-a-friend’s cousin’s roommate who can obtain guns.

Why do news outlets need to say “alleged” gunman? I understand in some cases they have to say “alleged”, because nothing is proven. But if there are photos and videos of you being the gunman, and the cops take you down in the act, with more photos and videos of that, I’d say that warrants just calling them the gunman…

furious said:

Why do news outlets need to say “alleged” gunman? I understand in some cases they have to say “alleged”, because nothing is proven. But if there are photos and videos of you being the gunman, and the cops take you down in the act, with more photos and videos of that, I’d say that warrants just calling them the gunman…

It is a bit silly. They’d be calling him the gunman if he was dead.

blah blah innocent until proven guilty blah blah.

I don’t get it either. There’s clear footage and a thousand witnesses.

Divine Angel said:

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

is it easier for potential terrorists to acquire one gun each if there are more guns in the community

A bit less expensive, perhaps, but the difficulty is unlikely to be more or less.

Lock things down all you like. If someone really wants a gun, they’ll get a gun.

It just might cost rather more.

I keep thinking about the Columbine shooters. Denied guns on their own, they enlisted an older friend to purchase guns from a gun show. Nowadays one can 3D print a weapon with instructions from the internet. Most pf them are probably pretty flimsy, but I have heard of ones capable of firing bullets.

Then of course is the dark web and friend-of-a-friend’s cousin’s roommate who can obtain guns.

do cost andor manufacturing processes affect the ease with which potential terrorists may acquire one gun each

Divine Angel said:

Bubblecar said:

furious said:

Why do news outlets need to say “alleged” gunman? I understand in some cases they have to say “alleged”, because nothing is proven. But if there are photos and videos of you being the gunman, and the cops take you down in the act, with more photos and videos of that, I’d say that warrants just calling them the gunman…

It is a bit silly. They’d be calling him the gunman if he was dead.

blah blah innocent until proven guilty blah blah.

I don’t get it either. There’s clear footage and a thousand witnesses.

wrong perspective, you should be considering this from the point of view of the reporter, whereby 7 letters are cheap but a defamation suit is expensive

Divine Angel said:

Nowadays one can 3D print a weapon with instructions from the internet. Most pf them are probably pretty flimsy, but I have heard of ones capable of firing bullets.

Yep it’s relatively easy to do. If I wanted to do it, I’d use a steel barrel machined to take the round and print the rest of it with a particular filament I’ve used which is incredibly strong.
I doubt it’d fall apart anytime soon though of course it wouldn’t last as long as the real thing.

Divine Angel said:

I keep thinking about the Columbine shooters. Denied guns on their own, they enlisted an older friend to purchase guns from a gun show. Nowadays one can 3D print a weapon with instructions from the internet. Most pf them are probably pretty flimsy, but I have heard of ones capable of firing bullets.

Then of course is the dark web and friend-of-a-friend’s cousin’s roommate who can obtain guns.

Yeah, you might be ble to make your own gun. Some are not that difficult

I did once see (not in Australia) an example of an M3 submachine gun, which is not a complicated bit of gear:

which had been knocked up in a machine shop in a homemade sort of way.

Orginal design was a .45 gun, but this one had been made for 9mm bullets. It was pretty well made, and i had no doubt that it would work well.

But, it’s a lot harder to manufacture your own ammunition from scratch. Guns without bullets are no more lethan than any other blunt object.

Could more be done on that front?

captain_spalding said:

Divine Angel said:

I keep thinking about the Columbine shooters. Denied guns on their own, they enlisted an older friend to purchase guns from a gun show. Nowadays one can 3D print a weapon with instructions from the internet. Most pf them are probably pretty flimsy, but I have heard of ones capable of firing bullets.

Then of course is the dark web and friend-of-a-friend’s cousin’s roommate who can obtain guns.

Yeah, you might be ble to make your own gun. Some are not that difficult

I did once see (not in Australia) an example of an M3 submachine gun, which is not a complicated bit of gear:

which had been knocked up in a machine shop in a homemade sort of way.

Orginal design was a .45 gun, but this one had been made for 9mm bullets. It was pretty well made, and i had no doubt that it would work well.

But, it’s a lot harder to manufacture your own ammunition from scratch. Guns without bullets are no more lethan than any other blunt object.

Could more be done on that front?

that’s called an ied

Spiny Norman said:

Divine Angel said:

Nowadays one can 3D print a weapon with instructions from the internet. Most pf them are probably pretty flimsy, but I have heard of ones capable of firing bullets.

Yep it’s relatively easy to do. If I wanted to do it, I’d use a steel barrel machined to take the round and print the rest of it with a particular filament I’ve used which is incredibly strong.
I doubt it’d fall apart anytime soon though of course it wouldn’t last as long as the real thing.

… not that you’ve put any thought into it ;)

SCIENCE said:

Divine Angel said:

Bubblecar said:

It is a bit silly. They’d be calling him the gunman if he was dead.

blah blah innocent until proven guilty blah blah.

I don’t get it either. There’s clear footage and a thousand witnesses.

wrong perspective, you should be considering this from the point of view of the reporter, whereby 7 letters are cheap but a defamation suit is expensive

That’s the point though, there’d be no defamation in this case. It’s very clear that he is the gunman…

SCIENCE said:

that’s called an ied

No, ‘homemade’ guns are a thing, and, as i say, some designs really lend themselves to the process.

The Viet Cong, especially in the 1950 and 1960s, were quite capable of producing perfectly serviceable (even admirable) copies of pistols and sub-machine guns in workshops that were housed in tunnels or jungle huts.

The British Sten gun is about as simple and cheap as you could ever make a gun, lots of sheet metal and metal pressings, quick, easy. Not glamourous, and yes, plenty of scope for accidents with them, but not unreliable or prone to catastrophic failure.

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

dv said:

Although some of the numbers are suprising, i’truth this could have been carried out by two men with one gun apiece.

is it easier for potential terrorists to acquire one gun each if there are more guns in the community

A bit less expensive, perhaps, but the difficulty is unlikely to be more or less.

Lock things down all you like. If someone really wants a gun, they’ll get a gun.

It just might cost rather more.

People say that, and to some extent it is probably true, but it’s not really that simple. More expensive, more difficult, there’s a reason why things like knife attacks and car ram attacks happen. It was difficult to get a weapon so they chose the easier weapons…

SCIENCE said:

do cost andor manufacturing processes affect the ease with which potential terrorists may acquire one gun each

Manufacturing is not really an issue. Most guns acquired by ‘terrorist’ outfits are not factory-new. They’ve been around for a while.

I know of one M-16 that the US delivered to Cam Ranh Bay in Vietnam in 1968, and it turned up in El Salvador in the 1980s, probably via Russia and Eastern Europe.

Hell, you can still buy WW2 weapons on the market in good numbers. Mauser 98s, M1 Garands, no problem, last i heard, there was still some MP40 submachine guns to be had.

There’s something like 90 – 100 million of various types of Kalashnikov that have been made, so there’s no shortage of them.

Cost is another matter. You’ll get what you pay for. You might be able to get a good number of Kalashnikovs for as low as US$15 each, but, wow, are they going to be old, worn, and rattly, even by AK standards!

You want something more up-to-date, more reliable, a bit more sexy, that’s where the money talk starts.

Divine Angel said:

Spiny Norman said:

Divine Angel said:

Nowadays one can 3D print a weapon with instructions from the internet. Most pf them are probably pretty flimsy, but I have heard of ones capable of firing bullets.

Yep it’s relatively easy to do. If I wanted to do it, I’d use a steel barrel machined to take the round and print the rest of it with a particular filament I’ve used which is incredibly strong.
I doubt it’d fall apart anytime soon though of course it wouldn’t last as long as the real thing.

… not that you’ve put any thought into it ;)

I like solving engineering challenges.

captain_spalding said:

Divine Angel said:

I keep thinking about the Columbine shooters. Denied guns on their own, they enlisted an older friend to purchase guns from a gun show. Nowadays one can 3D print a weapon with instructions from the internet. Most pf them are probably pretty flimsy, but I have heard of ones capable of firing bullets.

Then of course is the dark web and friend-of-a-friend’s cousin’s roommate who can obtain guns.

Yeah, you might be ble to make your own gun. Some are not that difficult

I did once see (not in Australia) an example of an M3 submachine gun, which is not a complicated bit of gear:

which had been knocked up in a machine shop in a homemade sort of way.

Orginal design was a .45 gun, but this one had been made for 9mm bullets. It was pretty well made, and i had no doubt that it would work well.

But, it’s a lot harder to manufacture your own ammunition from scratch. Guns without bullets are no more lethan than any other blunt object.

Could more be done on that front?

aka grease gun.

furious said:

Why do news outlets need to say “alleged” gunman? I understand in some cases they have to say “alleged”, because nothing is proven. But if there are photos and videos of you being the gunman, and the cops take you down in the act, with more photos and videos of that, I’d say that warrants just calling them the gunman…

The news outlets do sometimes go overboard with the allegedly alleged stuff but I suppose they want to stay on the safe side.

Divine Angel said:

There’s something very off-putting about ideologies that kill little girls because of accidents of birth.

Divine Angel said:

It’s all so sad and all so mad.

captain_spalding said:

Divine Angel said:

There’s something very off-putting about ideologies that kill little girls because of accidents of birth.

¿ accidents of birth ?

SCIENCE said:

captain_spalding said:

Divine Angel said:

There’s something very off-putting about ideologies that kill little girls because of accidents of birth.

¿ accidents of birth ?

Being born Jewish, for one.

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

captain_spalding said:

There’s something very off-putting about ideologies that kill little girls because of accidents of birth.

¿ accidents of birth ?

Being born Jewish, for one.

I thought one was a tabula rasa at birth?

Bogsnorkler said:

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

¿ accidents of birth ?

Being born Jewish, for one.

I thought one was a tabula rasa at birth?

we were worried this was going to be about miscarriages and abortion bans and stuff

Was religion involved?

Bogsnorkler said:

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

¿ accidents of birth ?

Being born Jewish, for one.

I thought one was a tabula rasa at birth?

Without looking anything up tabula rasa (Latin for “blank slate”) is a philosophical concept that humans are born without innate ideas or knowledge, and all understanding is gained through experience and perception. Associated with empiricist philosophers like John Locke, it suggests the mind is a clean slate filled by sensory input, challenging innate knowledge ideas. The concept emphasizes the power of environment, education, and nurture in shaping individuals, contrasting with the “nature” side of the debate.
That’s all I know.

Peak Warming Man said:

Bogsnorkler said:

captain_spalding said:

Being born Jewish, for one.

I thought one was a tabula rasa at birth?

Without looking anything up tabula rasa (Latin for “blank slate”) is a philosophical concept that humans are born without innate ideas or knowledge, and all understanding is gained through experience and perception. Associated with empiricist philosophers like John Locke, it suggests the mind is a clean slate filled by sensory input, challenging innate knowledge ideas. The concept emphasizes the power of environment, education, and nurture in shaping individuals, contrasting with the “nature” side of the debate.
That’s all I know.

thanks Al. I can call you Al?

Bogsnorkler said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Bogsnorkler said:

I thought one was a tabula rasa at birth?

Without looking anything up tabula rasa (Latin for “blank slate”) is a philosophical concept that humans are born without innate ideas or knowledge, and all understanding is gained through experience and perception. Associated with empiricist philosophers like John Locke, it suggests the mind is a clean slate filled by sensory input, challenging innate knowledge ideas. The concept emphasizes the power of environment, education, and nurture in shaping individuals, contrasting with the “nature” side of the debate.
That’s all I know.

thanks Al. I can call you Al?

this

Bogsnorkler said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Bogsnorkler said:

I thought one was a tabula rasa at birth?

Without looking anything up tabula rasa (Latin for “blank slate”) is a philosophical concept that humans are born without innate ideas or knowledge, and all understanding is gained through experience and perception. Associated with empiricist philosophers like John Locke, it suggests the mind is a clean slate filled by sensory input, challenging innate knowledge ideas. The concept emphasizes the power of environment, education, and nurture in shaping individuals, contrasting with the “nature” side of the debate.
That’s all I know.

thanks Al. I can call you Al?

Only if his real name is Paul Simon

News outlets reporting the gunman has awoken from his coma.

Divine Angel said:

Bogsnorkler said:

Peak Warming Man said:

Without looking anything up tabula rasa (Latin for “blank slate”) is a philosophical concept that humans are born without innate ideas or knowledge, and all understanding is gained through experience and perception. Associated with empiricist philosophers like John Locke, it suggests the mind is a clean slate filled by sensory input, challenging innate knowledge ideas. The concept emphasizes the power of environment, education, and nurture in shaping individuals, contrasting with the “nature” side of the debate.
That’s all I know.

thanks Al. I can call you Al?

Only if his real name is Paul Simon

It’s Albert Ihnstine.

“ In recent days, we have become aware of footage showing Boris, with Sofia by his side, courageously attempting to disarm an attacker in an effort to protect others. While nothing can lessen the pain of losing Boris and Sofia, we feel an overwhelming sense of pride in their bravery and selflessness. This encapsulates who Boris and Sofia were – people who instinctively and selflessly tried to help others.”

From the ABC live blog.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Was religion involved?

Yes.

Some people emotionally connect to imaginary concepts that don’t really exist.

Thats going to have consequences with young people still developing minds.

Peoples environment, and their upbringing effects observation, logic and ethics.

My view is that religion can corrupt the minds of young people when they emotionally connect to imaginary concepts, it somehow forces them into a compromised position.?

It’s something I find difficult to understand.

Divine Angel said:

News outlets reporting the gunman has awoken from his coma.

Probably been in one all his life.

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Was religion involved?

Yes.

Some people emotionally connect to imaginary concepts that don’t really exist.

Thats going to have consequences with young people still developing minds.

Peoples environment, and their upbringing effects observation, logic and ethics.

My view is that religion can corrupt the minds of young people when they emotionally connect to imaginary concepts, it somehow forces them into a compromised position.?

It’s something I find difficult to understand.

It’s not just religion. Humans are tribal creatures (generally speaking). We want to fit in, belong somewhere, be surrounded by people who understand. And sometimes, we fall for promises that things will be better.

Have you ever been to an Amway demonstration or Tupperware party? The same tactics to recruit people into religion are used to recruit people into MLMs. Romance scams, too.

These days we see people falling in love with AI bots. Using bots as a therapist. Falling for age-old tactics preying on insecurities.

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

captain_spalding said:

There’s something very off-putting about ideologies that kill little girls because of accidents of birth.

¿ accidents of birth ?

Being born Jewish, for one.

Could be worse and be born in Gaza.

Witty Rejoinder said:

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

¿ accidents of birth ?

Being born Jewish, for one.

Could be worse and be born in Gaza.

I have the same opinion about that.

Witty Rejoinder said:

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

¿ accidents of birth ?

Being born Jewish, for one.

Could be worse and be born in Gaza.

That’s a point.

captain_spalding said:

whilst we appreciate the sentiment the time has come and gone and this all does seem a bit sexist there are proximate alternatives for example you could show the comrade with gastroschisis or a giraffe neck or something at least

Divine Angel said:

“ In recent days, we have become aware of footage showing Boris, with Sofia by his side, courageously attempting to disarm an attacker in an effort to protect others. While nothing can lessen the pain of losing Boris and Sofia, we feel an overwhelming sense of pride in their bravery and selflessness. This encapsulates who Boris and Sofia were – people who instinctively and selflessly tried to help others.”

From the ABC live blog.

Watched the video of them wrestling with the terrorist father. Heartbreaking to know that they both died.

wait we thought Russians were bad guys

kii said:

Divine Angel said:

“ In recent days, we have become aware of footage showing Boris, with Sofia by his side, courageously attempting to disarm an attacker in an effort to protect others. While nothing can lessen the pain of losing Boris and Sofia, we feel an overwhelming sense of pride in their bravery and selflessness. This encapsulates who Boris and Sofia were – people who instinctively and selflessly tried to help others.”

From the ABC live blog.

Watched the video of them wrestling with the terrorist father. Heartbreaking to know that they both died.

If they don’t both get awarded a (sadly, posthumous) Cross of Valour, i will demand to know why.

Ans so should everyone else.

captain_spalding said:

kii said:

Divine Angel said:

“ In recent days, we have become aware of footage showing Boris, with Sofia by his side, courageously attempting to disarm an attacker in an effort to protect others. While nothing can lessen the pain of losing Boris and Sofia, we feel an overwhelming sense of pride in their bravery and selflessness. This encapsulates who Boris and Sofia were – people who instinctively and selflessly tried to help others.”

From the ABC live blog.

Watched the video of them wrestling with the terrorist father. Heartbreaking to know that they both died.

If they don’t both get awarded a (sadly, posthumous) Cross of Valour, i will demand to know why.

Ans so should everyone else.

Yep. So many selfless people.
I saw an interview with a guy who was about to read out the names of the Lifesavers who ran towards the area to help. The bimbo interviewing him cut him off, saying that there wasn’t time for that.
Ozzy Man on Instagram is going to follow that up.

Oop, third consignment for the volcano, people somehow blaming Penny Wong for this.

dv said:

Oop, third consignment for the volcano, people somehow blaming Penny Wong for this.

Oh do you mean 黃英賢¿ Well duh she is from a Muslim majority country and when did anyone ever stop blaming CHINA associated products for anything¿

Divine Angel said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Was religion involved?

Yes.

Some people emotionally connect to imaginary concepts that don’t really exist.

Thats going to have consequences with young people still developing minds.

Peoples environment, and their upbringing effects observation, logic and ethics.

My view is that religion can corrupt the minds of young people when they emotionally connect to imaginary concepts, it somehow forces them into a compromised position.?

It’s something I find difficult to understand.

It’s not just religion. Humans are tribal creatures (generally speaking). We want to fit in, belong somewhere, be surrounded by people who understand. And sometimes, we fall for promises that things will be better.

Have you ever been to an Amway demonstration or Tupperware party? The same tactics to recruit people into religion are used to recruit people into MLMs. Romance scams, too.

These days we see people falling in love with AI bots. Using bots as a therapist. Falling for age-old tactics preying on insecurities.

so it’s all team sports

SCIENCE said:

dv said:

Oop, third consignment for the volcano, people somehow blaming Penny Wong for this.

Oh do you mean 黃英賢¿ Well duh she is from a Muslim majority country and when did anyone ever stop blaming CHINA associated products for anything¿

Chinese Muslims are there WORST!

SCIENCE said:

Divine Angel said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Yes.

Some people emotionally connect to imaginary concepts that don’t really exist.

Thats going to have consequences with young people still developing minds.

Peoples environment, and their upbringing effects observation, logic and ethics.

My view is that religion can corrupt the minds of young people when they emotionally connect to imaginary concepts, it somehow forces them into a compromised position.?

It’s something I find difficult to understand.

It’s not just religion. Humans are tribal creatures (generally speaking). We want to fit in, belong somewhere, be surrounded by people who understand. And sometimes, we fall for promises that things will be better.

Have you ever been to an Amway demonstration or Tupperware party? The same tactics to recruit people into religion are used to recruit people into MLMs. Romance scams, too.

These days we see people falling in love with AI bots. Using bots as a therapist. Falling for age-old tactics preying on insecurities.

so it’s all team sports

Someone got picked last for the team.

SCIENCE said:

Divine Angel said:

Tau.Neutrino said:

Yes.

Some people emotionally connect to imaginary concepts that don’t really exist.

Thats going to have consequences with young people still developing minds.

Peoples environment, and their upbringing effects observation, logic and ethics.

My view is that religion can corrupt the minds of young people when they emotionally connect to imaginary concepts, it somehow forces them into a compromised position.?

It’s something I find difficult to understand.

It’s not just religion. Humans are tribal creatures (generally speaking). We want to fit in, belong somewhere, be surrounded by people who understand. And sometimes, we fall for promises that things will be better.

Have you ever been to an Amway demonstration or Tupperware party? The same tactics to recruit people into religion are used to recruit people into MLMs. Romance scams, too.

These days we see people falling in love with AI bots. Using bots as a therapist. Falling for age-old tactics preying on insecurities.

so it’s all team sports

Were the shooters groomed?

Tau.Neutrino said:

SCIENCE said:

Divine Angel said:

It’s not just religion. Humans are tribal creatures (generally speaking). We want to fit in, belong somewhere, be surrounded by people who understand. And sometimes, we fall for promises that things will be better.

Have you ever been to an Amway demonstration or Tupperware party? The same tactics to recruit people into religion are used to recruit people into MLMs. Romance scams, too.

These days we see people falling in love with AI bots. Using bots as a therapist. Falling for age-old tactics preying on insecurities.

so it’s all team sports

Were the shooters groomed?

They’re Muslim not Catholic.

This gets more and more tangled. On the radio this morning I heard that the shooters are of Indian background and did some military/paramilitary training in the Philipines quite recently. And that the older man only fairly recently acquired guns. The narrative is twisting and trying to escape.

Divine Angel said:

Bloody.

:(

:(

:(

Michael V said:

Divine Angel said:

Bloody.

:(

:(

:(

Yeah, what a brave young man. All his training and hard work has taken an abrupt turn.

In 2010 son#2 had a girlfriend who was training to be a police officer. She was doing a degree of some sort, that was part of her cadetship. She eventually graduated and was posted to a large country town. After they split up she was involved in a prisoner death whilst the guy was in her custody. Horrible, horrible situation that eventually destroyed her career, from what little I’ve read online. My son’s biggest fear was that she’d be killed whilst on duty.

Gunman has been charged with 59 offences, including 15 counts of murder.

Divine Angel said:

Gunman has been charged with 59 offences, including 15 counts of murder.

He’s going to have a lot of problems in his mind with this. His father abandoned him by dying. I presume they both intended to die. He’s got to deal with failure.

buffy said:

Divine Angel said:

Gunman has been charged with 59 offences, including 15 counts of murder.

He’s going to have a lot of problems in his mind with this. His father abandoned him by dying. I presume they both intended to die. He’s got to deal with failure.

I dunno. I think I saw video of him putting his hands up as police approached him on the bridge.

Divine Angel said:

Gunman has been charged with 59 offences, including 15 counts of murder.

Good.

buffy said:

Divine Angel said:

Gunman has been charged with 59 offences, including 15 counts of murder.

He’s going to have a lot of problems in his mind with this. His father abandoned him by dying. I presume they both intended to die. He’s got to deal with failure.

There’ll be a long time in prison for him to consider his failures. Including his failure to treat others nicely.

buffy said:

Divine Angel said:

Gunman has been charged with 59 offences, including 15 counts of murder.

He’s going to have a lot of problems in his mind with this. His father abandoned him by dying. I presume they both intended to die. He’s got to deal with failure.

You know, I don’t think there’re many people who give a damn about that.

btm said:

buffy said:

Divine Angel said:

Gunman has been charged with 59 offences, including 15 counts of murder.

He’s going to have a lot of problems in his mind with this. His father abandoned him by dying. I presume they both intended to die. He’s got to deal with failure.

You know, I don’t think there’re many people who give a damn about that.

Nods.

Michael V said:

buffy said:

Divine Angel said:

Gunman has been charged with 59 offences, including 15 counts of murder.

He’s going to have a lot of problems in his mind with this. His father abandoned him by dying. I presume they both intended to die. He’s got to deal with failure.

There’ll be a long time in prison for him to consider his failures. Including his failure to treat others nicely.

And I think he will probably be serving his sentence pretty much in solitary confinement.

btm said:

buffy said:

Divine Angel said:

Gunman has been charged with 59 offences, including 15 counts of murder.

He’s going to have a lot of problems in his mind with this. His father abandoned him by dying. I presume they both intended to die. He’s got to deal with failure.

You know, I don’t think there’re many people who give a damn about that.

I don’t either, really. But I like the thought that he will reap bounteously what he has sown in terms of mental distress.

buffy said:

btm said:

buffy said:

He’s going to have a lot of problems in his mind with this. His father abandoned him by dying. I presume they both intended to die. He’s got to deal with failure.

You know, I don’t think there’re many people who give a damn about that.

I don’t either, really. But I like the thought that he will reap bounteously what he has sown in terms of mental distress.

Not necessarily. If he was deluded enough to believe that such disgustingly evil behaviour is “virtuous”, his religion will presumably continue to console and congratulate him.

Bubblecar said:

buffy said:

btm said:

You know, I don’t think there’re many people who give a damn about that.

I don’t either, really. But I like the thought that he will reap bounteously what he has sown in terms of mental distress.

Not necessarily. If he was deluded enough to believe that such disgustingly evil behaviour is “virtuous”, his religion will presumably continue to console and congratulate him.

There will be no reinforcement now. He’s on his own. For a very long time. I think he is only 24(?) He doesn’t have full understanding yet. And it won’t be good when he does.

buffy said:

btm said:

buffy said:

He’s going to have a lot of problems in his mind with this. His father abandoned him by dying. I presume they both intended to die. He’s got to deal with failure.

You know, I don’t think there’re many people who give a damn about that.

I don’t either, really. But I like the thought that he will reap bounteously what he has sown in terms of mental distress.

I personally think that he should have to see his father’s body thrown into a pig pen and eaten.

Kingy said:

buffy said:

btm said:

You know, I don’t think there’re many people who give a damn about that.

I don’t either, really. But I like the thought that he will reap bounteously what he has sown in terms of mental distress.

I personally think that he should have to see his father’s body thrown into a pig pen and eaten.

No, because you are better than that. Never stoop to their level.

what the fuck does it have to do with protesting deity damn

Frydenberg had a bit of a sooky lah-lah today.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Frydenberg had a bit of a sooky lah-lah today.

did it work

SCIENCE said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Frydenberg had a bit of a sooky lah-lah today.

did it work

Not on me.

SCIENCE said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Frydenberg had a bit of a sooky lah-lah today.

did it work

guess it did

buffy said:

Kingy said:

buffy said:

I don’t either, really. But I like the thought that he will reap bounteously what he has sown in terms of mental distress.

I personally think that he should have to see his father’s body thrown into a pig pen and eaten.

No, because you are better than that. Never stoop to their level.

Agreed.

He will most likely be given a funeral according to whatever religion he subscribed to. It will be small, private and the location kept confidential.

AussieDJ said:

buffy said:

Kingy said:

I personally think that he should have to see his father’s body thrown into a pig pen and eaten.

No, because you are better than that. Never stoop to their level.

Agreed.

He will most likely be given a funeral according to whatever religion he subscribed to. It will be small, private and the location kept confidential.

shrug all this focus on the past and not enough on improving the future

SCIENCE said:

AussieDJ said:

buffy said:

No, because you are better than that. Never stoop to their level.

Agreed.

He will most likely be given a funeral according to whatever religion he subscribed to. It will be small, private and the location kept confidential.

shrug all this focus on the past and not enough on improving the future

I am trying to improve the future.

If the next potential terrorist finds out that instead of going to heaven with 73 virgins, he just gets called a coward and chucked into a pigpen to be turned into pigshit, they just might think twice about it.

Kingy said:

SCIENCE said:

AussieDJ said:

Agreed.

He will most likely be given a funeral according to whatever religion he subscribed to. It will be small, private and the location kept confidential.

shrug all this focus on the past and not enough on improving the future

I am trying to improve the future.

If the next potential terrorist finds out that instead of going to heaven with 73 virgins, he just gets called a coward and chucked into a pigpen to be turned into pigshit, they just might think twice about it.

What do you have in mind when Netanyahu carks it?

Witty Rejoinder said:

Kingy said:

SCIENCE said:

shrug all this focus on the past and not enough on improving the future

I am trying to improve the future.

If the next potential terrorist finds out that instead of going to heaven with 73 virgins, he just gets called a coward and chucked into a pigpen to be turned into pigshit, they just might think twice about it.

What do you have in mind when Netanyahu carks it?

I’m hoping that he fronts the Hague before he carks it. They can sort it out.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Kingy said:

SCIENCE said:

shrug all this focus on the past and not enough on improving the future

I am trying to improve the future.

If the next potential terrorist finds out that instead of going to heaven with 73 virgins, he just gets called a coward and chucked into a pigpen to be turned into pigshit, they just might think twice about it.

What do you have in mind when Netanyahu carks it?

Throw his coffin into Gaza?

interesting new article about another bystander doing the wrong thing

“I wanted to be as smart as I could,” he said. “It was almost like tunnel vision — just trying to hide behind things and not be seen, just trying to find out where he was. Once I saw where he was, nothing else really mattered.” Amandeep ran onto the bridge where the alleged shooter was firing at people, pinning him down with the help of a police officer. “I jumped on top of and grabbed his arms. The police officer helped me and said not to let him go.”

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/amandeep-ate-a-kebab-then-jumped-on-top-of-the-bondi-beach-shooter/5bhs6v8ef

pretty sure the police were wrong and he(A) should have let him(B) go

SCIENCE said:

interesting new article about another bystander doing the wrong thing

“I wanted to be as smart as I could,” he said. “It was almost like tunnel vision — just trying to hide behind things and not be seen, just trying to find out where he was. Once I saw where he was, nothing else really mattered.” Amandeep ran onto the bridge where the alleged shooter was firing at people, pinning him down with the help of a police officer. “I jumped on top of and grabbed his arms. The police officer helped me and said not to let him go.”

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/amandeep-ate-a-kebab-then-jumped-on-top-of-the-bondi-beach-shooter/5bhs6v8ef

pretty sure the police were wrong and he(A) should have let him(B) go

Yeah but that URL.

Dude eats kebab, takes down a shooter. Like Popeye and his spinach.

Where was chk-chk-boom lady when ya need her as a shooting witness?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBBsb0z9RJk 1 min 15 secs

AI generated images of gunman circulate on social media.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-12-18/verify-disinformation-and-deepfakes-after-bondi-attack/106154250

Divine Angel said:

AI generated images of gunman circulate on social media.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-12-18/verify-disinformation-and-deepfakes-after-bondi-attack/106154250

is that why they’re using the word alleged

SCIENCE said:

Divine Angel said:

AI generated images of gunman circulate on social media.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-12-18/verify-disinformation-and-deepfakes-after-bondi-attack/106154250

is that why they’re using the word alleged

No, it’s because of ‘the presumption of innocence’.

No-one is confirmed as guilty of a crime or offence until they’ve been found guilty of the crime/offence in a court of law.

It’s always the case that a person is alleged to have done something, up until the moment when the court decides that they are guillty , or (as does happen, you know), decides that they are not guilty i.e. the allegations were false/incorrect/unprovable.

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

Divine Angel said:

AI generated images of gunman circulate on social media.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-12-18/verify-disinformation-and-deepfakes-after-bondi-attack/106154250

is that why they’re using the word alleged

No, it’s because of ‘the presumption of innocence’.

No-one is confirmed as guilty of a crime or offence until they’ve been found guilty of the crime/offence in a court of law.

It’s always the case that a person is alleged to have done something, up until the moment when the court decides that they are guillty , or (as does happen, you know), decides that they are not guilty i.e. the allegations were false/incorrect/unprovable.

Hopefully he pleads guilty so no trial is needed.

The New South Wales government will sit next week to discuss urgent changes to the state’s firearm legislation, which could include a cap on the number of guns residents can hold. The move has been met with mixed reaction, with gun control experts saying firearm caps would go far to reduce harm. Firearm owners are concerned about a lack of stakeholder consultation, saying none of the proposed changes would have prevented the Bondi Beach terror attack.

so

none of the proposed changes would have prevented the Bondi Beach terror attack

would any of them have decreased the magnitude of the harm sustained in a terror attack they did not prevent

Cymek said:

captain_spalding said:

SCIENCE said:

is that why they’re using the word alleged

No, it’s because of ‘the presumption of innocence’.

No-one is confirmed as guilty of a crime or offence until they’ve been found guilty of the crime/offence in a court of law.

It’s always the case that a person is alleged to have done something, up until the moment when the court decides that they are guillty , or (as does happen, you know), decides that they are not guilty i.e. the allegations were false/incorrect/unprovable.

Hopefully he pleads guilty so no trial is needed.

so until the lawyers say so, all scientifically 6 sigmas are mere alleged realities and truths

SCIENCE said:

The New South Wales government will sit next week to discuss urgent changes to the state’s firearm legislation, which could include a cap on the number of guns residents can hold. The move has been met with mixed reaction, with gun control experts saying firearm caps would go far to reduce harm. Firearm owners are concerned about a lack of stakeholder consultation, saying none of the proposed changes would have prevented the Bondi Beach terror attack.

so

none of the proposed changes would have prevented the Bondi Beach terror attack

would any of them have decreased the magnitude of the harm sustained in a terror attack they did not prevent

These events besides the actual killings become distasteful
Political point scoring.
What could our Prime Minister have done to prevent it.
Government isn’t omniscient

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

The New South Wales government will sit next week to discuss urgent changes to the state’s firearm legislation, which could include a cap on the number of guns residents can hold. The move has been met with mixed reaction, with gun control experts saying firearm caps would go far to reduce harm. Firearm owners are concerned about a lack of stakeholder consultation, saying none of the proposed changes would have prevented the Bondi Beach terror attack.

so

none of the proposed changes would have prevented the Bondi Beach terror attack

would any of them have decreased the magnitude of the harm sustained in a terror attack they did not prevent

These events besides the actual killings become distasteful
Political point scoring.
What could our Prime Minister have done to prevent it.
Government isn’t omniscient

yeah but who cares about that when you can leverage it for votes

you have the Corruption Coalition up to that day trying to bring in the very kind of American cultural imports that make these incidents more likely and more dangerous

now suddenly they’re the good guys supporting the most persecuted religious folk in the world

SCIENCE said:

Cymek said:

captain_spalding said:

No, it’s because of ‘the presumption of innocence’.

No-one is confirmed as guilty of a crime or offence until they’ve been found guilty of the crime/offence in a court of law.

It’s always the case that a person is alleged to have done something, up until the moment when the court decides that they are guillty , or (as does happen, you know), decides that they are not guilty i.e. the allegations were false/incorrect/unprovable.

Hopefully he pleads guilty so no trial is needed.

so until the lawyers say so, all scientifically 6 sigmas are mere alleged realities and truths

Lawyers are not needed.

There are, or have been, other kinds of courts whiich rule(d) over various other realms and jurisdictions e.g. eccleseastical courts, admiralty courts.

Science rules on matters within its realm, by means of the scientific method that we know so well.

Cymek said:

Hopefully he pleads guilty so no trial is needed.

I hope that he pleads not guillty so that whatever ratbaggery has led him to this situation is exposed, examined, and discredited in public.

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

The New South Wales government will sit next week to discuss urgent changes to the state’s firearm legislation, which could include a cap on the number of guns residents can hold. The move has been met with mixed reaction, with gun control experts saying firearm caps would go far to reduce harm. Firearm owners are concerned about a lack of stakeholder consultation, saying none of the proposed changes would have prevented the Bondi Beach terror attack.

so

none of the proposed changes would have prevented the Bondi Beach terror attack

would any of them have decreased the magnitude of the harm sustained in a terror attack they did not prevent

These events besides the actual killings become distasteful
Political point scoring.
What could our Prime Minister have done to prevent it.
Government isn’t omniscient

The gun laws failed since the father got his guns after his son was investigated by ASIO.

Mental Health Minister Rose Jackson says dedicated mental health clinicians will be available at Bondi from 8am to 8pm.

“They’re there, highly identifiable, in vests that identify them as mental health clinicians. You don’t need an appointment, you don’t need to be a certain level of unwell, if you just want someone to talk to, they’re there to do that,” Jackson says.
The mental health minister says welfare officers and disaster response chaplains are also available.

She says the NSW government is also providing funding to local Jewish organisations to ensure ongoing support.

“We’re going to be with the community for the long term. This is not one of those situations where support is surged in the immediate aftermath of something that happens and then slowly it drifts away.”

I hope those clinicians also have a support network to debrief with.

https://www.deepcutnews.com/p/jewish-council-urges-pushback-against

Link

Disinformation expert Timothy Graham says X’s content monetisation program is providing an incentive for users to share misinformation.
X and other social media platforms were flooded with false and misleading claims following the attack on Bondi Beach.
What’s next?
Dr Graham says the solutions to misinformation on social media are complex, but addressing the incentives and providing more transparency into the platforms would be a good start.

ChrispenEvan said:

https://www.deepcutnews.com/p/jewish-council-urges-pushback-against

Link

when will they fucking wake

“Anyone using this opportunity to encourage hatred needs to take a long hard look at themselves,” Kaiser said. “The right are already using this attack to stir up racism against Palestinians, Muslims and migrants in general. We need to push back against this narrative.”

up and realise and act on the realisation that the underlying problem with this shit* isn’t the Abrahamic religion or the other Abrahamic religion or the other Abrahamic religion, but the fascism and the antefascism videre licet the right

*: though they may underlie other shit

Divine Angel said:

Disinformation expert Timothy Graham says X’s content monetisation program is providing an incentive for users to share misinformation.
X and other social media platforms were flooded with false and misleading claims following the attack on Bondi Beach.
What’s next?
Dr Graham says the solutions to misinformation on social media are complex, but addressing the incentives and providing more transparency into the platforms would be a good start.

surprise

but one solution to misinformation on social media is not complex

realise that speech is just like any other action and isn’t “free” in a the bullshit way they think it is

how fucking disingenuous can they be

The prime minister hasn’t gone as far as Frydenberg and others would like. He’s not accepting personal responsibility for the Bondi atrocity.

right

right

SCIENCE said:

how fucking disingenuous can they be

The prime minister hasn’t gone as far as Frydenberg and others would like. He’s not accepting personal responsibility for the Bondi atrocity.

right

right

Would ASIO report to the Prime Minister what is possibly a low tier security threat at the time.
Is it just a terrible act that was unpreventable and hindsight is giving everyone a licence to blame others.
Would people accept the actions required to have stopped it, like police state type actions

Cymek said:

SCIENCE said:

how fucking disingenuous can they be

The prime minister hasn’t gone as far as Frydenberg and others would like. He’s not accepting personal responsibility for the Bondi atrocity.

right

right

Would ASIO report to the Prime Minister what is possibly a low tier security threat at the time.
Is it just a terrible act that was unpreventable and hindsight is giving everyone a licence to blame others.
Would people accept the actions required to have stopped it, like police state type actions

sorry what we meant was that by the same reasoning every deity damn voter who didn’t vote for Jewish politicians is personally responsible

I’m angry. We’re all angry.

Perhaps that’s part of the problem.

At the moment, we’re angry at two twisted individuals on a Bondi footbridge who suddenly turned our country into something it isn’t. Or perhaps it is, and we simply haven’t noticed. We only notice what we must in this ugly billionaires’ world of unceasing noise.

We like to think Australia is largely a peaceable nation at the bottom of the planet that minds its own business and doesn’t get involved in dictatorships, or chemical weapons, or wars on its own soil. That’s the commonly held mindset, except for the wars on its own soil involving the killing of thousands of indigenous peoples in the frontier wars. But it hasn’t happened in our lifetime, so we tend to put it in the Unfortunate History basket and move on. Yes, peaceable is the way we like to think of ourselves. We only notice what we need to.

But at the moment we’re angry because we don’t know which path to take through all of this. Because whatever path we cautiously pick through, whatever opinion we may foster, it will never be the right one for some. We are never right because we are all angry and yelling and sad and convinced our view is the right one. Perhaps our collective anger is the problem. Perhaps it’s also part of the solution. Righteous anger can sometimes be a good thing. Good trouble.

The American novelist, Emma Lockhart Jenkins once wrote: “Tragedy is not glamorous… it doesn’t play out in life as it does on a stage or between the pages of a book. It is neither a punishment meted out nor a lesson conferred. Its horrors are not attributable to one single person. Tragedy is ugly and tangled, stupid and confusing.”

Ugly and tangled. Stupid and confusing. That is where we are.

You can get tangled and confused but still be angry at this. You can be even angrier at the political and media fall-out as well; an incessant game of ugly politicians with uglier mouths screeching their partisan points into the void in the belief they can use the bodies of the dead to win the culture wars. It’s low stuff, but as some elements of politics have shown us over the past few days, no low is too low to snuffle in the sewer for points when you’re tanking in the polls.

Some of our media have shown us the best they can be. Some have shown us the worst. Be angry at Sky News, first on the scene with microphones at the ready to foster more loud, cheap headlines, more division, more points for Sharri. Be angry at NineFax and their bibbed, spoon-fed opinion columnists who like to write hagiographies to Prime Minister’s wives and who have yet again, slothfully parroted the bile fed by their parasitic political hosts. These hacks behave as they have always done, as corporate shills, convincing themselves in their artificial, self-reflection-free world, that they have nothing to be sorry for, that their ugliness has not added to the unrest. But do not be angry with the genuine good our media have done over the past few days in their reporting. Be glad the good ones are still there. Celebrate them.

Be angry at Benjamin Netanyahu, a man Israelis voted in as their leader, a fugitive from the International War Crimes Commission, a man who orders and celebrates the incineration of innocent children in refugee camp tents, who is now bobbing up to lecture Australia on morals and the sanctity of human life.

But also remember that Netanyahu does not speak for the Jewish people of Australia, or worldwide. Do not conflate Jewishness with support of Israel’s actions and atrocities. Do not hold each of them accountable for Israel. Remember that to be Jewish is to be part of a broad cross-spectrum of people and opinions and adherences. Be angry alongside your Jewish brothers and sisters for this event. Weep with them. You may not know who you weep with, but that is tragedy – ugly and tangled.

Be angry at the great white ghost of Australia’s political theatre, John Howard, wheeled out like a lost Weekend At Bernie’s extra to perform for media content and angertainment via a shared script from the conservative outrage machine. The same John Howard who was Prime Minister in April 1996 when a lone gunman in Port Arthur massacred 35 people. Not one political leader back then stooped to the level Howard is now. No politician blamed another. No low is too low though in this world of the ugly billionaires.

Perhaps the NineFax columnists and their ahistorical colleagues have forgotten that the 1995 Labor leader Kim Beazley stood side-by-side with John Howard in the days and weeks following that massacre, as did the then leader of the Australian Democrats, Cheryl Kernot. These leaders spoke of nothing but bipartisan support and the need for a unified approach. They demonstrated political consensus in the face of a national tragedy and helped galvanise a nation.

But all Australia sees now is John Howard the blame vampire, encouraged by recreational grief hijacker, Sussan Ley. Yes, the corporate media cry, we can fill the airwaves with John Howard for people desperate to hear from a decrepit racist who marched us into a war that didn’t exist. We can add his uninformed views, his unwanted opinion to the tragedy. We can platform the same three-inch man who recently said, “Multiculturalism is a concept that I’ve always had trouble with”, the same man who told Australia to limit Asian immigration, and we can cheer him as the champion of racial unity. Yes, they cry – after a tragedy fuelled by racism and ignorance, surely we can add more racism and ignorance to help our national healing.

Tragedy is stupid and confusing.

Should we be angry at the head of ASIO, Mike Burgess, a man who appears to spend his working hours seeking media headlines and providing moral-panic content to journalists? We do not know why ASIO dropped the ball with these two heinous individuals, or if some faults lie with others. We do know that intelligence resources are finite and that humans are fallible. But we also know that Burgess bragged to Australians only last month about ASIO’s handle on international conspiracies and other fabulous James Bondian news editor fantasies, all the while ignoring the very real threats cooking away in the boring backblocks of suburban Sydney. We can be angry that an intelligence organisation’s leader, one who has dedicated years to courting publicity at every opportunity, is now curiously silent when explanations and leadership are needed.

We can be angry at the political connivance of Jillian Segal, a woman who wasted no time leaping upon the chance to ride the bandwagon as chief lobbyist and apologist for Israel. Even her official, obdurate statement mirrored something straight out of Netanyahu’s notebook. After the horrific events of Sunday, when the Jewish community was reeling in shock, her first thought was to promote her chief causes of decrying a peaceful demonstration on the Sydney Harbour Bridge attended by thousands of peaceful Australians, and of demonising universities. Men who gun down innocent people on beachfronts rarely join marches for peace to end bloodshed.

The two gunmen, one an unemployed labourer, his father, an alleged shop worker, did not march for peace, they did not learn their hatred on the grounds of universities, nor did they create their unhinged mindsets in the art galleries or cultural institutions of Australia. But ever the divider, Segal failed to allow those highly obvious facts to deter her.

No words from Segal for many months about the public displays of Nazism on our streets. Nothing from her about her husband funding Advance, an Australian organisation that fuels racism and sows the ugly seeds of social discord. No, such is Segal’s alleged leadership and empathy that her first thoughts were to conflate people concerned about Israel’s wholesale slaughter of children, as the same people who were somehow to blame for Sunday’s atrocity. Not her mentor Netanyahu, the world’s largest fueler of antisemitism, not her husband’s bankrolling of racists, not her own deliberate avoidance of the real Nazi antisemitism in our streets, no it was all the “fault” of those who want peace. Tragedy is ugly and tangled.

The fault lies with the two gunmen: driven by toxic organised religion, online masculinity harvesters, ancient grievances and mental illness. Ugly and tangled. Stupid and confusing. It should not need to be spelled out that there is nothing remotely racist about criticism of Israel’s genocidal actions, but for the simple-minded, it should be. It should also not need to be spelled out that crossing the line from protesting against a nation and its barbaric actions, to blaming an entire religion and its people, is also to be shunned.

Be angry at the right things. It may be hard to see how Sussan Ley can get more desperate and tasteless than immediately politicking and point scoring as people lay wounded in hospitals. But when she is eventually kicked to the kerb, this should be her defining moment – cheap stunts of disgusting opportunism when she could have chosen principled leadership. Albanese to his credit, has shown a rarely seen side of him; rational and calm leadership. He is in an invidious position, not the least of it due to the immediate and coordinated culture warring by Australian conservatives and the usual media managers and editors who hunt their employees for sport, who are now suddenly pretending they’ve played no part in fanning racist rhetoric in Australia. The people who teach you to hate everyone now want to sell you something.

Be angry about the senseless loss. Be heartbroken. Be despairing. Be grief stricken. Be compassionate. Look for the real leaders because they are rarely to be found in the pages and airspace of our corporate media, or from the tainted mouths of some of our politicians. Antisemitism existed in the world before October 2023, and tragically, it will continue to exist. The majority of Australians reject antisemitism too. The majority of Australians are peaceful. The majority of Australians also have the right to peacefully protest against Israel and its genocidal policies. Not all Jewish people support the actions of Israel. Religious extremism is evil. Hatred creates more hatred and violence creates more violence. It was ever thus.

Tragedy can be like that.

https://theshot.net.au/uncategorized/dont-look-back-in-anger/

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