Been doing a bit of reading up on alternative energy solutions, and came across this concept recently. Instead if chasing oil or natural gas, there are certain places where natural hydrogen occurs underground. The basic process is that water reacts with iron-rich rocks to form iron oxides and release hydrogen gas. The hydrogen gas would normally seep away, but it can get trapped in some layers of rocks, So if we can drill and extract this hydrogen we get clean energy. This is known as white hydrogen.

Orange hydrogen uses the same chemical process but the reaction is helped along to speed things up a bit. Water saturated with CO2 is pumped down the well and the hydrogen gas extracted. The carbon gets captured within the new minerals formed by the reaction. This is known as orange hydrogen because it turns the rocks orange. So it captures carbon and produces clean energy at the same time.

I find this an interesting concept. Australia seems to have plenty of rocks that are just the right type for this process. Seems like it might be done cheaper than Green Hydrogen which is using solar and wind to split water via electrolysis. I’d like to see some more action on this, if we can do this instead of coal or natural gas that would be nice. Maybe not as a transport fuel but to power the grid and heavy industry.

By the way, the other colours of Hydrogen are:

Grey Hydrogen: Made from natural gas without capturing carbon;
Blue Hydrogen: Made from natural gas with carbon capture technology.

party_pants said:

Been doing a bit of reading up on alternative energy solutions, and came across this concept recently. Instead if chasing oil or natural gas, there are certain places where natural hydrogen occurs underground. The basic process is that water reacts with iron-rich rocks to form iron oxides and release hydrogen gas. The hydrogen gas would normally seep away, but it can get trapped in some layers of rocks, So if we can drill and extract this hydrogen we get clean energy. This is known as white hydrogen.

Orange hydrogen uses the same chemical process but the reaction is helped along to speed things up a bit. Water saturated with CO2 is pumped down the well and the hydrogen gas extracted. The carbon gets captured within the new minerals formed by the reaction. This is known as orange hydrogen because it turns the rocks orange. So it captures carbon and produces clean energy at the same time.

I find this an interesting concept. Australia seems to have plenty of rocks that are just the right type for this process. Seems like it might be done cheaper than Green Hydrogen which is using solar and wind to split water via electrolysis. I’d like to see some more action on this, if we can do this instead of coal or natural gas that would be nice. Maybe not as a transport fuel but to power the grid and heavy industry.

By the way, the other colours of Hydrogen are:

Grey Hydrogen: Made from natural gas without capturing carbon;
Blue Hydrogen: Made from natural gas with carbon capture technology.

Interesting. Thanks.

party_pants said:

Been doing a bit of reading up on alternative energy solutions, and came across this concept recently. Instead if chasing oil or natural gas, there are certain places where natural hydrogen occurs underground. The basic process is that water reacts with iron-rich rocks to form iron oxides and release hydrogen gas. The hydrogen gas would normally seep away, but it can get trapped in some layers of rocks, So if we can drill and extract this hydrogen we get clean energy. This is known as white hydrogen.

Orange hydrogen uses the same chemical process but the reaction is helped along to speed things up a bit. Water saturated with CO2 is pumped down the well and the hydrogen gas extracted. The carbon gets captured within the new minerals formed by the reaction. This is known as orange hydrogen because it turns the rocks orange. So it captures carbon and produces clean energy at the same time.

I find this an interesting concept. Australia seems to have plenty of rocks that are just the right type for this process. Seems like it might be done cheaper than Green Hydrogen which is using solar and wind to split water via electrolysis. I’d like to see some more action on this, if we can do this instead of coal or natural gas that would be nice. Maybe not as a transport fuel but to power the grid and heavy industry.

By the way, the other colours of Hydrogen are:

Grey Hydrogen: Made from natural gas without capturing carbon;
Blue Hydrogen: Made from natural gas with carbon capture technology.

Interesting, thanks.

party_pants said:

Been doing a bit of reading up on alternative energy solutions, and came across this concept recently. Instead if chasing oil or natural gas, there are certain places where natural hydrogen occurs underground. The basic process is that water reacts with iron-rich rocks to form iron oxides and release hydrogen gas. The hydrogen gas would normally seep away, but it can get trapped in some layers of rocks, So if we can drill and extract this hydrogen we get clean energy. This is known as white hydrogen.

Orange hydrogen uses the same chemical process but the reaction is helped along to speed things up a bit. Water saturated with CO2 is pumped down the well and the hydrogen gas extracted. The carbon gets captured within the new minerals formed by the reaction. This is known as orange hydrogen because it turns the rocks orange. So it captures carbon and produces clean energy at the same time.

I find this an interesting concept. Australia seems to have plenty of rocks that are just the right type for this process. Seems like it might be done cheaper than Green Hydrogen which is using solar and wind to split water via electrolysis. I’d like to see some more action on this, if we can do this instead of coal or natural gas that would be nice. Maybe not as a transport fuel but to power the grid and heavy industry.

By the way, the other colours of Hydrogen are:

Grey Hydrogen: Made from natural gas without capturing carbon;
Blue Hydrogen: Made from natural gas with carbon capture technology.

Also, Green Hydrogen is made from water using renewable energy, for instance at MGH in northern WA, or the upcoming Hunter Valley Hub

Can you tell us some more about what kind of rocks are the best for this orange hydrogen? I’d be interested in the chemistry of it.

Also, have there been any advancements in recent years on how to store hydrogen? That’s the bigger problem really.

becklefreckle said:

Can you tell us some more about what kind of rocks are the best for this orange hydrogen? I’d be interested in the chemistry of it.

Also, have there been any advancements in recent years on how to store hydrogen? That’s the bigger problem really.

Mostly Olivine. rocks

Olivine + Water —-> Serpentine + Brucite + Magnetite + Hydrogen

Olivine (Mg, Fe)2 SiO4

party_pants said:

becklefreckle said:

Can you tell us some more about what kind of rocks are the best for this orange hydrogen? I’d be interested in the chemistry of it.

Also, have there been any advancements in recent years on how to store hydrogen? That’s the bigger problem really.

Mostly Olivine. rocks
the process is called Serpentization

Olivine + Water —-> Serpentine + Brucite + Magnetite + Hydrogen

Olivine (Mg, Fe)2 SiO4

Adding carbon dioxide to the water produces carbonates which can sequester the carbon long term.

Olivine is a mantle rock right; does that mean this has to go deep?

I assume that this would also require some sort of hot rock situation? Is heat and pressure required to start the reaction? Or is that provided by default with how deep it needs to go?

It’s a very interesting concept.

becklefreckle said:

Olivine is a mantle rock right; does that mean this has to go deep?

I assume that this would also require some sort of hot rock situation? Is heat and pressure required to start the reaction? Or is that provided by default with how deep it needs to go?

It’s a very interesting concept.

I’m not sure, we need a rock-whisperer for the details.

I had heard that in WA they are looking at using the tailings from old mines, so presumably it is already at the surface. The other WA resources talked about are the Yilgarn and Pilbara cratons, but not sure how deep. I’ve only been looking at WA so far, but it seems there is interest in SA, NSW and QLD too, so they must have some of the right geology there too.

why not renewable short chain hydrocarbon neosynthesis

SCIENCE said:

why not renewable short chain hydrocarbon neosynthesis

You can’t get the right sort of wood these days.

SCIENCE said:

why not renewable short chain hydrocarbon neosynthesis

Why not indeed?

My thinking is a bit more complex:

Turn organic waste into a crude bio-oil using hydrothermal liquefaction (HTL). Basically a big pressure cooker that cooks wet organic matter at temps of around 300C and 15-25 bar pressure. Use hydrogen gas to power this process. Now, the oil fraction of the HTL process is quite low grade, it contains compounds containing oxygen and nitrogen. This can be upgraded to high quality hydrocarbons by heating over a catalyst and adding – you guessed it – hydrogen.

Not sure if this will be cost-effective versus conventional fossil fuels. But given the way things are going in West Asia this might be worth the trouble to become energy independent.

No need to transition to electric vehicles if we can produce liquid fuels that are carbon-negative.

SCIENCE said:

why not renewable short chain hydrocarbon neosynthesis

Give us a simple reaction that would yield that and go to it!

becklefreckle said:

SCIENCE said:

why not renewable short chain hydrocarbon neosynthesis

Give us a simple reaction that would yield that and go to it!

hard reverse this

https://globalsyngas.org/syngas-technology/syngas-production/steam-methane-reforming/

The other option is use white or orange hydrogen for electricity production or heavy industry to process our mineral resources that we usually export overseas for processing. Aluminium production perhaps.