my daughter lives in a flat where the backyard is all vege garden but her ‘orchard’ is in pots.
she asks me the following question which is beyond my knowledge -

“ if she gets quince cuttings to grow can she get a fruit salad tree out of one of them?

what is the youngest a quince tree can be before she starts grafting onto it – 1,2 or 3 y.o.?
what are the three best grafts to do for a start – apple? peach?
what’s the best way to seal the graft union? – tape? or can she use waxed cloth? or honey?”

pepe said:

my daughter lives in a flat where the backyard is all vege garden but her ‘orchard’ is in pots.
she asks me the following question which is beyond my knowledge -

“ if she gets quince cuttings to grow can she get a fruit salad tree out of one of them?

what is the youngest a quince tree can be before she starts grafting onto it – 1,2 or 3 y.o.?
what are the three best grafts to do for a start – apple? peach?
what’s the best way to seal the graft union? – tape? or can she use waxed cloth? or honey?”

by fruit salad you mean a multigrafted tree? where does she live? Which part of Australias climate zones.
Quince as a rootstock theortically should be able to grow pears grafted onto them but no nursery that I know uses this practice.
The only nursery I have worked in which does use quince rootstock, usees them to graft loquats onto. You should also be able to graft lychee.
It is possible also that apples may work but again, in nurseries where say you’ll get peach nectarine plum prune apricot peacherine plumcot almond all grafted onto peach or almond stock. Though cherries also being a prunus are not grafted onto peach or plum stock.
You will only see nurseries graft apple onto apple pear onto pear.. quince onto quince, in my area.

Easiest method is the chip bud as it takes seconds to craft and tie up. Use normal plastic budding tape. If budding in spring, cut the tape off after two weeks. If in autumn, leave the tape on until spring.
T buds can be used, particulary as spring buds. You can purchase rubber strips for tying these or again use tape but leave a small gap arounf th bud itself,. If the bud takes there is no need to remove the tape or rubber strip as the tree will push them off. but it is a good idea to check and remove if it looks to be cutting the new shoot off. so again within a couple of weeks in spring, remove the tapes.

Whip and tongue grafts can be done from July-September. Tie the whole graft and scion or at least paint the whole thing if you only tie the graft. I use the grafting mastic.

occasionally If I remember, I take photos of grafts, if I have the time. http://www.flickr.com/photos/99559986@N00/sets/72157624848810727/

t is possible also that apples may work but again, in nurseries where say you’ll get peach nectarine plum prune apricot peacherine plumcot almond all grafted onto peach or almond stock. Though cherries also being a prunus are not grafted onto peach or plum stock.
——————————

still trying to get my mind around this.
i think this is her idea of a fruit salad tree – 6 or so different fruits all on the one tree.

thanks – very informative as always.

pepe said:

t is possible also that apples may work but again, in nurseries where say you’ll get peach nectarine plum prune apricot peacherine plumcot almond all grafted onto peach or almond stock. Though cherries also being a prunus are not grafted onto peach or plum stock.
——————————

still trying to get my mind around this.
i think this is her idea of a fruit salad tree – 6 or so different fruits all on the one tree.

thanks – very informative as always.

If this is the case she must get peach stock to graft most of the prunus family onto. Though some of the prune, plums and apricot are more desirable on plumstock. Depends much on whether they are European or Japanese plums

roughbarked said:

pepe said:

t is possible also that apples may work but again, in nurseries where say you’ll get peach nectarine plum prune apricot peacherine plumcot almond all grafted onto peach or almond stock. Though cherries also being a prunus are not grafted onto peach or plum stock.
——————————

still trying to get my mind around this.
i think this is her idea of a fruit salad tree – 6 or so different fruits all on the one tree.

thanks – very informative as always.

If this is the case she must get peach stock to graft most of the prunus family onto. Though some of the prune, plums and apricot are more desirable on plumstock. Depends much on whether they are European or Japanese plums

she’s been given your advice and came up with an unexpected reply - – she is going to graft peach onto quince and then some of the others onto the peach.

it will work by the sounds of it – but the time taken becomes important and that’s why she wants to know if its possible to graft onto a one year old cutting?

pepe said:

roughbarked said:

pepe said:

t is possible also that apples may work but again, in nurseries where say you’ll get peach nectarine plum prune apricot peacherine plumcot almond all grafted onto peach or almond stock. Though cherries also being a prunus are not grafted onto peach or plum stock.
——————————

still trying to get my mind around this.
i think this is her idea of a fruit salad tree – 6 or so different fruits all on the one tree.

thanks – very informative as always.

If this is the case she must get peach stock to graft most of the prunus family onto. Though some of the prune, plums and apricot are more desirable on plumstock. Depends much on whether they are European or Japanese plums

she’s been given your advice and came up with an unexpected reply - – she is going to graft peach onto quince and then some of the others onto the peach.

it will work by the sounds of it – but the time taken becomes important and that’s why she wants to know if its possible to graft onto a one year old cutting?

she’s in adelaide.

pepe said:

pepe said:

roughbarked said:

If this is the case she must get peach stock to graft most of the prunus family onto. Though some of the prune, plums and apricot are more desirable on plumstock. Depends much on whether they are European or Japanese plums

she’s been given your advice and came up with an unexpected reply - – she is going to graft peach onto quince and then some of the others onto the peach.

it will work by the sounds of it – but the time taken becomes important and that’s why she wants to know if its possible to graft onto a one year old cutting?

she’s in adelaide.

Adelaide is not a lot different to here apart from the extra rain.
If she succeeds with a peach onto a quince and an apple on a peach, I’ll buy her a bottle of Grange Hermitage.

It is possible to graft onto a one year old cutting or seedling. It is what all nurseries do.

Adelaide is not a lot different to here apart from the extra rain.
If she succeeds with a peach onto a quince and an apple on a peach, I’ll buy her a bottle of Grange Hermitage.
It is possible to graft onto a one year old cutting or seedling. It is what all nurseries do.

————————————————————-

her plan is to graft the peach and wait a year for the graft to take. she’s got 9 quinces on the go – so she’ll probably graft peach onto three of them

her ideas come from the rare fruit society of sa.

pepe said:

Adelaide is not a lot different to here apart from the extra rain.
If she succeeds with a peach onto a quince and an apple on a peach, I’ll buy her a bottle of Grange Hermitage.
It is possible to graft onto a one year old cutting or seedling. It is what all nurseries do.

————————————————————-

her plan is to graft the peach and wait a year for the graft to take. she’s got 9 quinces on the go – so she’ll probably graft peach onto three of them

her ideas come from the rare fruit society of sa.

gotta link for that?

grafts don’t need a year. They only need a few weeks.

roughbarked said:

pepe said:

Adelaide is not a lot different to here apart from the extra rain.
If she succeeds with a peach onto a quince and an apple on a peach, I’ll buy her a bottle of Grange Hermitage.
It is possible to graft onto a one year old cutting or seedling. It is what all nurseries do.

————————————————————-

her plan is to graft the peach and wait a year for the graft to take. she’s got 9 quinces on the go – so she’ll probably graft peach onto three of them

her ideas come from the rare fruit society of sa.

gotta link for that?

grafts don’t need a year. They only need a few weeks.

rare fruit society/sa.org.au

or…

http://www.rarefruit-sa.org.au/

looks like a secret club. Don’t get to read important info until you fill out the membership form.

roughbarked said:

looks like a secret club. Don’t get to read important info until you fill out the membership form.

hmm membership fees too.

Anyway I’m not paying money to prove that not much fun will be got from trying to graft peach and quince.

scroll to rootstock compatability chart http://www.homeorchardsociety.org/article/41/

this does sound like a very interesting and ambitious grafting project, good luck with it, can they document it with pics as well? Let us know how it goes :)

trichome said:

this does sound like a very interesting and ambitious grafting project, good luck with it, can they document it with pics as well? Let us know how it goes :)

Should have kept my mouth shut and called for bets.

roughbarked said:

looks like a secret club. Don’t get to read important info until you fill out the membership form.

it’s a big club.
i went to one july meeting when there were a couple hundred (very devoted) people there.

trichome said:

this does sound like a very interesting and ambitious grafting project, good luck with it, can they document it with pics as well? Let us know how it goes :)

no probs – well – if goes well i mean
- if gloomy predictions are right the thread might fall silent.

pepe said:

trichome said:

this does sound like a very interesting and ambitious grafting project, good luck with it, can they document it with pics as well? Let us know how it goes :)

no probs – well – if goes well i mean
- if gloomy predictions are right the thread might fall silent.

Well quite simply, grafting only works within families. If the rootstock and the scion are of differing families, the grafts simply won’t be compatible and though some may actually stick on, it won’t be for very long and the results will be sad at the best.

As an example this can even crop up when actually grafting within families. Some customers want apricots specifically on plumstock. Well they may have to wait up to three years longer before they get their tree numbers they ordered.
Those who ordered on peach stock, got theirs three years before the others.
The difference being that the soil where the ones wanting plumstock wasn’t so suitable for peach stock. Otherwise they’d buy it on peach stock.

This thread won’t fall to a whisper.. it will always have a murmur while I am able..

The topic fruit salad tree is dear to my heart. Though there are fruits which alone could be called fruit salad fruit, once they have all ripened the tree doesn’t fruit again until next season.

Multiple grafted trees have been tried by many.

There exist many logistical problems. Many very real practical problems.

Apart from compatability of stock to each of the varieties grafted on, there is also the growth rates of each variety, the fact that it is practically impossible to have them all facing the sun when they need it. though it isn’t entirely impossible it would mean something like you’d have to have the earliest apricot and the winter peach. However I’m going to extremes there.

There is a limit to how many varieties you can have on the one tree that do well. specific pruning and grafting techniques can improve the results. Espalier is good because you can have four or five varieties on one tree, all facing the sun.

Then there’s facts like a granny smith will grow approx four times faster than a jonathon. A pear grafted onto the same rootstock will see it dwarfed and atrophied.

roughbarked said:

There is a limit to how many varieties you can have on the one tree that do well. specific pruning and grafting techniques can improve the results. Espalier is good because you can have four or five varieties on one tree, all facing the sun.

Would facing the sun be an issue up here, in subtropical, inland, Queensland?

As we are nearly on the Tropic of Capricorn, give or take 2 kilometres…

Dinetta said:

roughbarked said:

There is a limit to how many varieties you can have on the one tree that do well. specific pruning and grafting techniques can improve the results. Espalier is good because you can have four or five varieties on one tree, all facing the sun.

Would facing the sun be an issue up here, in subtropical, inland, Queensland?

As we are nearly on the Tropic of Capricorn, give or take 2 kilometres…

not as much but you are still a long way from the equator

roughbarked said:

Dinetta said:

roughbarked said:

There is a limit to how many varieties you can have on the one tree that do well. specific pruning and grafting techniques can improve the results. Espalier is good because you can have four or five varieties on one tree, all facing the sun.

Would facing the sun be an issue up here, in subtropical, inland, Queensland?

As we are nearly on the Tropic of Capricorn, give or take 2 kilometres…

not as much but you are still a long way from the equator

OK, where our citrus trees used to be, they received sunlight from dawn to dusk, irrespective of the season…would a graft still need to be oriented occidentally in this situation?

Dinetta said:

roughbarked said:

Dinetta said:

Would facing the sun be an issue up here, in subtropical, inland, Queensland?

As we are nearly on the Tropic of Capricorn, give or take 2 kilometres…

not as much but you are still a long way from the equator

OK, where our citrus trees used to be, they received sunlight from dawn to dusk, irrespective of the season…would a graft still need to be oriented occidentally in this situation?

yes because the sun does not sit above you and get switched on and off like a light bulb

Though you will find it far easier to get more equalised fruiting on the south side of the tree

roughbarked said:

Though you will find it far easier to get more equalised fruiting on the south side of the tree

Thanks, I was starting to wonder…as I’ve never noticed any difference with the fruit distribution on the citrus trees…

Dinetta said:

roughbarked said:

Though you will find it far easier to get more equalised fruiting on the south side of the tree

Thanks, I was starting to wonder…as I’ve never noticed any difference with the fruit distribution on the citrus trees…

You would if you grafted say a Little wheeny grapefruit or a myer lemon on the south side of a Eureka lemon or even an emperor mandarin.

roughbarked said:

This thread won’t fall to a whisper.. it will always have a murmur while I am able..

The topic fruit salad tree is dear to my heart. Though there are fruits which alone could be called fruit salad fruit, once they have all ripened the tree doesn’t fruit again until next season. Multiple grafted trees have been tried by many. There exist many logistical problems. Many very real practical problems. Apart from compatability of stock to each of the varieties grafted on, there is also the growth rates of each variety, the fact that it is practically impossible to have them all facing the sun when they need it. though it isn’t entirely impossible it would mean something like you’d have to have the earliest apricot and the winter peach. However I’m going to extremes there. There is a limit to how many varieties you can have on the one tree that do well. specific pruning and grafting techniques can improve the results. Espalier is good because you can have four or five varieties on one tree, all facing the sun. Then there’s facts like a granny smith will grow approx four times faster than a jonathon. A pear grafted onto the same rootstock will see it dwarfed and atrophied.

whoa – i’ve come to the right place then.
real live knowledge.

every pruner seems to do it their own way – are you the proud owner of some multi-grafted trees?

Dinetta said:

roughbarked said:

Dinetta said:

Would facing the sun be an issue up here, in subtropical, inland, Queensland?

As we are nearly on the Tropic of Capricorn, give or take 2 kilometres…

not as much but you are still a long way from the equator

OK, where our citrus trees used to be, they received sunlight from dawn to dusk, irrespective of the season…would a graft still need to be oriented occidentally in this situation?

chuckle – are you sure its not orientated?

no shadow days are easy for your location – december 21st – but i digress

Yes most of my fruit trees have more than one variety grafted

have eight cherry varieties on one tree.

roughbarked said:

have eight cherry varieties on one tree.

…and the scions came from….?

pepe said:

roughbarked said:

have eight cherry varieties on one tree.

…and the scions came from….?

;)

My sources are secret.

Just say I came to your farm to graft trees for you. You had a variety I didn’t. I asked you if I could have a stick off your tree. You have no objection.
As long as I don’t try and sell a copyrighted variety there is no law to say I cannot grow one.

pepe said:

roughbarked said:

have eight cherry varieties on one tree.

…and the scions came from….?

sorry if that’s an inappropriate question
- but i was wandering if they come from local sources
- or if you have to go far and wide for obscure and seldom used types of cherry.

BBL – bill to pay, straw to cart and a few strawb runners to give away.

pepe said:

pepe said:

roughbarked said:

have eight cherry varieties on one tree.

…and the scions came from….?

sorry if that’s an inappropriate question
- but i was wandering if they come from local sources
- or if you have to go far and wide for obscure and seldom used types of cherry.

BBL – bill to pay, straw to cart and a few strawb runners to give away.

A lot of scion wood can be sourced locally. I also happen to travel all over the place grafting, so am able to collect far and wide.

You and the Australian customs plus the dept. of Ag would be extremely interested to know but they choose not to look at the number of people who have the fig or the grape etc., from their home town in Sicily or Crete, etc.

Anyway, yes it is not difficult to have a single grapevine that grows sultanas one way and currants the other or white sultana/black sultana.
You cand have a white blue and black fig

or a Packham, winter cole, beurre bosc pear a granny smith/golden delicious/pink lady.

but it is truly the prunus that you can have a plum, a peach, an apricot, a plumcot, a peacherine, a nectarine and an almond on.

dang, I just braved the cold wind to display some grafting techniques and the camera battery was flat. The day will be too dark and probably snowing by the time the battery charges so it will have to wait until a sunnier day.

roughbarked said:

have eight cherry varieties on one tree.

That sounds awsome.

roughbarked said:

have eight cherry varieties on one tree.

heaven :)

bluegreen said:

roughbarked said:

have eight cherry varieties on one tree.

heaven :)

There’s different varieties of cherries? And why are cherries “heaven”?

Dinetta said:

bluegreen said:

roughbarked said:

have eight cherry varieties on one tree.

heaven :)

There’s different varieties of cherries? And why are cherries “heaven”?

go here and when the page loads click on the arrows either side of the cherry pics. http://rainierfruit.com/products/cherries.html

Was just out, doing some grafting and found that some peaches are already growing, I’ll have flowers in a few days.. even earlier than almonds. Which I haven’t even pruned yet. Anyway I made one tree into Pullar peach, Elberta peach, Goldmine nectarine, Peacherine, Mariposa plum and a plum that nobody can tell me the name of yet. I bought it as a Damson many years ago and the tree is now old so I’m grafting it onto a new tree. However a farmer wanted to grow it as he said it was an ideal sugar plum for the Asian market but try as he might he couldn’t find a nursery that could agree on what variety it actually is. To me, it is just a sweeter, earlier prune.

Dinetta said:

bluegreen said:

roughbarked said:

have eight cherry varieties on one tree.

heaven :)

There’s different varieties of cherries? And why are cherries “heaven”?

just one of my favourite fruit. Probably because the season is so short and the only time I got to eat them as a kid was at Christmas. And I refuse to buy out of season cherries from the US!

bluegreen said:

Dinetta said:

bluegreen said:

heaven :)

There’s different varieties of cherries? And why are cherries “heaven”?

just one of my favourite fruit. Probably because the season is so short and the only time I got to eat them as a kid was at Christmas. And I refuse to buy out of season cherries from the US!

One reason for grafting more varieties, to extend the season,. Another of course is to improve pollination.

roughbarked said:

bluegreen said:

Dinetta said:

There’s different varieties of cherries? And why are cherries “heaven”?

just one of my favourite fruit. Probably because the season is so short and the only time I got to eat them as a kid was at Christmas. And I refuse to buy out of season cherries from the US!

One reason for grafting more varieties, to extend the season,. Another of course is to improve pollination.

on my list :)

what variety is the best as the parent?

bluegreen said:

roughbarked said:

bluegreen said:

just one of my favourite fruit. Probably because the season is so short and the only time I got to eat them as a kid was at Christmas. And I refuse to buy out of season cherries from the US!

One reason for grafting more varieties, to extend the season,. Another of course is to improve pollination.

on my list :)

what variety is the best as the parent?

not sure I comprehend the question

roughbarked said:

not sure I comprehend the question

if you were going to grow a multi variety cherry what would you use as rootstock? or can you start with any variety of cherry?

bluegreen said:

roughbarked said:

not sure I comprehend the question

if you were going to grow a multi variety cherry what would you use as rootstock? or can you start with any variety of cherry?

In the past most cherry rootstocks were sour cherries. Though these days the variety ‘colt’ is mainly used partly because it semi dwarfs the trees.

here’s some exaples of cherry rootstocks.

Cherry
Mahaleb

The most winter hardy of the commonly used cherry rootstocks. Sweet cherries slightly dwarfed, no dwarfing effect on sour types. Induces early, heavy bearing. Resists crown gall, bacterial canker, some nematodes. Not tolerant of wet soils.
Mazzard

Standard rootstock for sweet cherries. Vigorous, more tolerant of wet soils than Mahaleb (but good drainage still required). Resistant to root-knot nematodes and oak-root fungus.
Colt

For sweet cherries. In heavy soils, trees are dwarfed to 70-80% of standard. Lesser dwarfing effect in other soils. Apparently resistant to bacterial canker. Relatively tolerant of wet soils (but good drainage still required). Trees begin bearing at young age.
GM61/1

Standard cherry varieties dwarfed to half-size, or about 15-20 ft. if not pruned. Relatively tolerant of wet soil. Trees begin bearing at young age. Trees on GM61/1 may be held to any desired height by summer pruning.
Zee Stem on Citation

Advantages: Allows cherry growers to use appropriate peach/plum/almond rootstocks for the planting location, precocious and dwarfing when used with Citation rootstock. Improves fruit quality.

Disadvantages: Crop managment may be needed on precocious varieties during early years. Not drought tolerant.

“This shot is of an old variety of plum which appears to me to be one of the Damson hybrids. Grafted onto the Fantasia nectarine along with Elberta peach, Pullar peach, Peacherine, Mariposa plum, Goldmine nectarine, Red Haven peach, Coronet peach. So that is a multigrafted tree.”

said RB
—————————-

i’m just putting the list here so i can refer back to it.

yep multigrafted – eight times.
are they all grafted onto the nectarine?

pepe said:

“This shot is of an old variety of plum which appears to me to be one of the Damson hybrids. Grafted onto the Fantasia nectarine along with Elberta peach, Pullar peach, Peacherine, Mariposa plum, Goldmine nectarine, Red Haven peach, Coronet peach. So that is a multigrafted tree.”

said RB
—————————-

i’m just putting the list here so i can refer back to it.

yep multigrafted – eight times.
are they all grafted onto the nectarine?

yep so there is the nectarine too.