Date: 24/03/2012 01:49:40
From: Arts
ID: 147284
Subject: The Merlin

I was watching a doco on this British navy helicopter and they mentioned that it has “heat seeking missile diverters” the commentary was basically saying that it ‘spits out bits of hot metal to deter heat seeking missiles’

how does that happen? a reserve box of metal shavings waiting to be catapulted out? and what happens to these bits of metal? do they just fly around until they lodge in some sea kittehs eye?

secondly- they can refuel in the air. Which looks really cool… it is pure skill of both pilots, or is there some sort of lock on system that ensures success in mid air refuelling (I can imagine it would be quite a spectacular crash)

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Date: 24/03/2012 01:55:48
From: Kingy
ID: 147285
Subject: re: The Merlin

>>secondly- they can refuel in the air. Which looks really cool… it is pure skill of both pilots, or is there some sort of lock on system that ensures success in mid air refuelling (I can imagine it would be quite a spectacular crash)<<

Pure skill, with the threat of rapid death.

Spectacular crashes doing this are not uncommon. At least 5 nuclear warheads have gone down in a ball of flames.

4 over southern Spain, and at least one over Greenland.

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Date: 24/03/2012 10:08:09
From: Boris
ID: 147297
Subject: re: The Merlin

how does that happen? a reserve box of metal shavings waiting to be catapulted out? and what happens to these bits of metal? do they just fly around until they lodge in some sea kittehs eye?

probably use magnesium flares or phosphor.

x fingers that i remembered my html.

:-)

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Date: 24/03/2012 10:11:48
From: Boris
ID: 147298
Subject: re: The Merlin

woot, i did remember. i suprise myself sometimes. nah not really i know i’m great.

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Date: 24/03/2012 10:55:12
From: Arts
ID: 147300
Subject: re: The Merlin

thanks.. I had to ask over there in the syncing ship because of the traffic response.. but I appreciate your answers.

I’m going to search youtube for a spectacular crash.. :)

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Date: 24/03/2012 15:18:19
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 147322
Subject: re: The Merlin

The effectivness of heat seeking missiles can be greatly improved by increasing the delta t and that is exactly what they do, the larger the delta t the greater the sensitivity so they use a coolant on the sensor of the missile, liquid nitrogen is one they use I think.

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Date: 24/03/2012 15:24:52
From: bob(from black rock)
ID: 147324
Subject: re: The Merlin

Don’t think they should have used the name “Merlin” this still applies to the Rolls Royce “Merlin” engine as used in the Spitfire, Mosquito and Lancaster aircraft.

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Date: 24/03/2012 15:48:32
From: Peak Warming Man
ID: 147326
Subject: re: The Merlin

While looking something up on this subject I came across this video.
I never knew the TSR2 got off the drawing board.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXdJxjvQZW4&feature=related

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Date: 24/03/2012 16:02:12
From: bob(from black rock)
ID: 147327
Subject: re: The Merlin

PWM, I couldn’t get that link to work.
If my faulty memory is correct, I think at least a prototype of the TSR2 was flown.

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Date: 24/03/2012 16:24:13
From: wookiemeister
ID: 147330
Subject: re: The Merlin

you don’t bother using missiles on helicopters they can be very easily taken out with a good sniper rifle (50cal)

one shell into a helicopter from something like this will cause immense expensive

just watching the TSR2 you tube just confirmed my suspicions that it was probably shut down by the KGB etc (britain rarely bought american aircraft, they preferred local manufacturing so it was doubtful if the yanks could have shut it down)

fifth columnists once in power have the ability to shut down military programmes that would allow a country to defend itself

this means that when war comes agents within the government will have effectively crippled all avenues of defence thanks to their “cut backs”.

sometimes “someone” doesn’t want you to have an effective defence either because they are fighting you or needs you to still need their support. if you look at the collins class sub it seems to me to have suffered the same fate

it is by no accident that some very useful defence weapons are knocked out from the start, various agents start burrowing in like woodworm from the very start and effectively collapse it

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Date: 24/03/2012 16:28:44
From: wookiemeister
ID: 147331
Subject: re: The Merlin

edit

will cause immense expense

damaging expensive equipment just means horrible bills and eventually sucks the life out of the treasury that has to pay for it

killing the crew with these kinds of weapons just causes a lot of animosity (the recent killing of civillians by an american soldier was caused by seeing his mates being taken down – if the taliban concentrated their efforts on just damaging american equipment – no one would get hurt and the yanks would have empty wallets and leave tomorrow. the psychology of the taliban is more aimed at kills rather than any real strategy and of course – as long as america is in afghanistan the more reason they have of existing)

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Date: 24/03/2012 18:42:49
From: Boris
ID: 147335
Subject: re: The Merlin

http://www.vectorsite.net/avtsr2.html

vectorsite is a good reference for lots of interesting things.

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Date: 24/03/2012 20:03:16
From: wookiemeister
ID: 147338
Subject: re: The Merlin

That was as far as it got. On 6 April 1965, British Prime Minister Harold Wilson’s Labour government announced the cancellation of the TSR.2 program, making the day one of the most dismal in all British aviation history. The TSR.2 had completed only about 13 hours of flight tests. Another TSR.2 prototype was to fly the same day as the cancellation but never left the ground, and most of the rest of the initial batch of nine prototypes were in various stages of completion.

The project was dismantled with what has been described as “indecent haste”, with almost everything burned, scrapped, or discarded. The single flying prototype met a humiliating end, being gradually blown to pieces over a period of years as a ground gunnery target hulk, while most of the other prototypes in various stages of assembly were scrapped. The only saving grace of the whole sad situation was that two prototypes were rescued, with one now on display at the Aerospace Museum in Cosford, and the other on display at the Imperial War Museum in Duxford.
===

which raises my initial suspicions that the russians shut the thing down

Background

Soviet defector Anatoliy Golitsyn is said to have told Alec MacDonald, who set up safe houses where Golitsyn could live, that Wilson was a KGB operative and that former Labour Party leader Hugh Gaitskell had been assassinated by the KGB in order to have the pro-US Gaitskell replaced as party leader by Harold Wilson. David Leigh, however, claims that Golitsyn was guessing. Christopher Andrew, the official historian for Britain’s MI5, has described Golitsyn as an “unreliable conspiracy theorist”.

Former MI5 officer Peter Wright claimed in his memoirs Spycatcher that he had been told that Wilson was a Soviet agent. Wright states that after Wilson was elected Prime Minister in 1964 the CIA’s head of the Counterintelligence Division, James Angleton, had told him that he had heard from a source (whom he did not name, but who was probably Golitsyn) that Wilson was a Soviet agent. Angleton said he would give further information if MI5 would guarantee to keep the allegations from ‘political circles’. The management of MI5, according to Wright, refused to accept Angleton’s restrictions on the use of his information and so Angleton did not tell them anything more.

According to Wright by the end of the 1960s MI5 had received information that the Labour Party had ‘almost certainly’ been penetrated by the Soviets. Two Czechoslovakian defectors, ‘Frolik’ and ‘August’, had fled to the West and named a list of Labour MPs and trade unionists as Soviet agents.

MI5 repeatedly investigated Wilson over the course of several years before conclusively deciding that he had no relationship with the KGB, having found no evidence of Soviet penetration of the Labour Party. Wilson claimed he was a staunch anti-communist.

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Date: 24/03/2012 20:24:50
From: wookiemeister
ID: 147339
Subject: re: The Merlin

is does seem likely about this fellah

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=harold%20wilson%20russian%20spy&source=web&cd=5&sqi=2&ved=0CEIQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Farticle-1218922%2FJACK-THE-TRAITOR-Special-investigation-reveals-Union-boss-sold-secrets-KGB-45-years.html&ei=LI1tT8HFFtGImQXR25iVBg&usg=AFQjCNFhfVAbDiLtIt2132BcMhpN9cgaHA

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Date: 24/03/2012 20:40:26
From: Geoff D
ID: 147340
Subject: re: The Merlin

That URL could have been pared down to http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1218922/JACK-THE-TRAITOR-Special-investigation-reveals-Union-boss-sold-secrets-KGB-45-years.html

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Date: 24/03/2012 20:44:03
From: Boris
ID: 147341
Subject: re: The Merlin

points and laughs at geoff

hahah geoff reads wookies posts.

just ribbing you geoff.

;-)

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Date: 24/03/2012 20:44:33
From: wookiemeister
ID: 147342
Subject: re: The Merlin

lazy

just did a straight copy and paste

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Date: 24/03/2012 20:45:01
From: wookiemeister
ID: 147343
Subject: re: The Merlin

someones got to read them

even if by mistake

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Date: 24/03/2012 21:02:43
From: Geoff D
ID: 147344
Subject: re: The Merlin

Boris said:


points and laughs at geoff

hahah geoff reads wookies posts.

just ribbing you geoff.

;-)


Of course I do! Y’see, I’m onto him and his hyperbole-for-effect, and do everything I can to encourage more and wilder statements. Keeps me smiling. But don’t tell wookie. ;-)

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Date: 24/03/2012 21:12:23
From: wookiemeister
ID: 147345
Subject: re: The Merlin

oh i can do hyperbole baby

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Date: 24/03/2012 21:24:51
From: Geoff D
ID: 147346
Subject: re: The Merlin

You do it excellently, but rather transparently. I mean, nobody could be that loopy. ;-)

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Date: 25/03/2012 11:01:44
From: roughbarked
ID: 147374
Subject: re: The Merlin

Arts said:


I was watching a doco on this British navy helicopter and they mentioned that it has “heat seeking missile diverters” the commentary was basically saying that it ‘spits out bits of hot metal to deter heat seeking missiles’

how does that happen? a reserve box of metal shavings waiting to be catapulted out? and what happens to these bits of metal? do they just fly around until they lodge in some sea kittehs eye?

secondly- they can refuel in the air. Which looks really cool… it is pure skill of both pilots, or is there some sort of lock on system that ensures success in mid air refuelling (I can imagine it would be quite a spectacular crash)

They used to dump loads of alfoil in the secind war to cunfuse radar. Sounds similar.

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Date: 25/03/2012 11:04:52
From: Boris
ID: 147375
Subject: re: The Merlin

>>>>They used to dump loads of alfoil in the secind war to cunfuse radar.

called window and it gave the germans the bsod.

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