someone on sssf visited a powerstation a while ago

let me show you how viable fossil fuel power generation is

Stanwell Corporation Limited $ 840 ,635, 000 debt to the queensland treasury corporation

Ergon Energy Corporation Limited owe the QTC this amount of money $4 ,974, 061, 000 debt

ENERGEX Ltd $5 ,397 ,033, 000 debt

now do you see why power bills are rising, its about taking too much debt.

the other two are power distributors but you can see how and why power bills are climbing

if you can’t afford something ,just don’t do the thing thats driving the debt

queensland rail

Queensland Rail Limited $ 3 282 655,000 debt

i hope those shares everyone bought are worth something

You do realize that economists, bankers, financial advisors, market analysts and similar parasites will be the first up against the wall come the revolution?

wookiemeister said:

someone on sssf visited a powerstation a while ago

let me show you how viable fossil fuel power generation is

Stanwell Corporation Limited $ 840 ,635, 000 debt to the queensland treasury corporation

Ergon Energy Corporation Limited owe the QTC this amount of money $4 ,974, 061, 000 debt

ENERGEX Ltd $5 ,397 ,033, 000 debt

now do you see why power bills are rising, its about taking too much debt.

Do you seriously expect me to believe that the Qld debt is somewhere near that of the U.S.A.?

In one state?

Pull the other one.

jjjust moi said:

wookiemeister said:

someone on sssf visited a powerstation a while ago

let me show you how viable fossil fuel power generation is

Stanwell Corporation Limited $ 840 ,635, 000 debt to the queensland treasury corporation

Ergon Energy Corporation Limited owe the QTC this amount of money $4 ,974, 061, 000 debt

ENERGEX Ltd $5 ,397 ,033, 000 debt

now do you see why power bills are rising, its about taking too much debt.

Do you seriously expect me to believe that the Qld debt is somewhere near that of the U.S.A.?

In one state?

Pull the other one.

go here and find out yourself friend

http://www.qtc.qld.gov.au/qtc/public/web/aboutqtc/!ut/p/c5/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3hzd_NgCydDRwN3d3MLA0__QGfzMBd_IwMDU6B8JLK8hwVQ3sIyyCLIIgQob0BAdzjIPvz6QfIGOICjgb6fR35uqn5BboRBlomjIgC-4BDW/dl3/d3/L2dJQSEvUUt3QS9ZSnZ3L3djbTpwYXRoOiUwY29udGVudCUwcXRjK3dlYnNpdGUlMGFib3V0K3VzJTBjb3Jwb3JhdGUrb3ZlcnZpZXclMGFubnVhbCtyZXBvcnRz/?1dmy

its a little bit scary, have a look at the loans given to councils and other clients

you’ll see that energex appears to be 5.3 billion in debt

about the same amount of money the fedearl gov is fretting about and slashig the defence budget

we have already done irrepairable damage to the australian economy

remember that you heard it here first from wookiemeister

i wuldn’t worry about it too much

no one reads this stuff anyway so it will be too late for anyone to do anything

remember whan i mooted the GFC carsh in feb 2009

this time i’m giving a definite warning

this time i’m giving a definite warning
—-
Care to explain the warning carefully, so I understand?

Michael V said:

this time i’m giving a definite warning
—-
Care to explain the warning carefully, so I understand?

i’m saying they are/have run out of money

they need to take more loans

it means that not only are we going to have to pay that money back but with interest, this is where prices for everything starts to take off

they are having to tax harder because they need to pay off the loans too

they are trying to generate a massive economic crash

they are trying to give australia the recession they didn’t need to have

wookiemeister said:

i wuldn’t worry about it too much

no one reads this stuff anyway so it will be too late for anyone to do anything

remember whan i mooted the GFC carsh in feb 2009

this time i’m giving a definite warning

make that feb 2008, i was already a little suspicious before then when i was looking at house prices

we are heading into the same territory

massive loans we didn’t need to have taken by gov organisations rather than by investors

they’ll need to hammer the tax payer back to the stone age or just sell everything

i suddenly started looking at debt within queensland and realised we are heading into a crash

From 2007, one year prior to the global financial crisis, to 2010, the inflation-adjusted gross public debt of Australian federal, state and local general government sectors increased by 131 per cent to $253 billion, or 21 per cent of GDP.

This figure places us in the top four of the international debt splurge during the last quarter of the past decade, following Ireland (gross debt growth of 213 per cent), Luxembourg (189 per cent) and Iceland (181 per cent).

Governments have been able to significantly increase their borrowings, partly through their efforts in relaxing legislative constraints.

Since late 2007, the commonwealth has raised its legislated gross debt ceiling from $75bn to $250bn, with the prospect of more increases in the near future as the dollar amount of commonwealth securities on issue approaches the upper limit.

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=financial%20crash%20australia%20government%20debt&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CJsBEBYwBA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theaustralian.com.au%2Fnational-affairs%2Fopinion%2Fwholl-drag-us-free-of-our-heavy-debt-burden%2Fstory-e6frgd0×-1226261253488&ei=i4SnT4rpNqTeigfI-MCrCg&usg=AFQjCNGPgavINi6gyxE5kFkJyEvGxVhPAA

the liberals don’t seem to understand

no one cares, the avergae joe doesn’t know anything or care that we are being driven over a cliff

www.australiandebtclock.com.au/

plenty of scary stuff here

http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/history

have a look here

total debt was only 470 billion in 1995

its now 2 trillion

>total debt was only 470 billion in 1995

its now 2 trillion
——————————————————————————————-

So debt has increased by approximately 9% per year. Not really surprising considering.

so we keep accelerating.

we need to stop taking debt now or we get into an american situation where nationwide financial disaster is a normal part of life

wookiemeister said:

so we keep accelerating.

we need to stop taking debt now or we get into an american situation where nationwide financial disaster is a normal part of life

From your Qld figures we are already there and passed it, ploise xplain.

jjjust moi said:

wookiemeister said:

so we keep accelerating.

we need to stop taking debt now or we get into an american situation where nationwide financial disaster is a normal part of life

From your Qld figures we are already there and passed it, ploise xplain.

ask the QTC not me

we need to stop this disaster now!!

wookiemeister said:

www.australiandebtclock.com.au/

plenty of scary stuff here

——

Wookie there is no tick for inflation in these graphs.

They are skewed to a bias.

brett said:

wookiemeister said:

www.australiandebtclock.com.au/

plenty of scary stuff here

——

Wookie there is no tick for inflation in these graphs.

They are skewed to a bias.

i’ve been looking at debt recently i have followed the breadcrumbs back to the QTC and didn’t like what i saw

how does inflation come about in real terms these days…………………………….?

lets put it this way

where does money come from?

lets put it this way

where does money come from?

——-

How about you give me true figures first?

brett said:

lets put it this way

where does money come from?

——-

How about you give me true figures first?

lets start with first principles and work from there

lets let suppose that anyone has any monopoly on truth

where does money come from?

wookiemeister said:

brett said:

lets put it this way

where does money come from?

——-

How about you give me true figures first?

edit

lets start with first principles and work from there

lets let suppose that no one has any monopoly on truth

where does money come from?

makes sense now

watching the making of 2001

You can see where this lesson is going.

where does money come from?

—-

trade

brett said:

where does money come from?

—-

trade

so where do those people get money to trade with?

wookiemeister said:

brett said:

where does money come from?

—-

trade

so where do those people get money to trade with?

don’t freak out about it

just think about it and see what else you can come up with

so where do those people get money to trade with?

—-

From those they traded with.

I reckon they were trading pot plants.

when you take a loan , did that money actually exist before you took that loan?

Michael V said:

I reckon they were trading pot plants.

if they were trading potplants at least you could see exactly where those potplants where coming from

hot houses, nurseries and jungles would become banks

Skunkworks said:

You can see where this lesson is going.

Not really, Curve, but sometimes the journey is half the fun :)

sibeen said:

Skunkworks said:

You can see where this lesson is going.

Not really, Curve, but sometimes the journey is half the fun :)

Wookie just had his money shot. Who could have predicted that?

when you take a loan , did that money actually exist before you took that loan?

—-

Yes. It was from my father.

wookiemeister said:

when you take a loan , did that money actually exist before you took that loan?

kachinggg

wookiemeister said:

brett said:

where does money come from?

—-

trade

so where do those people get money to trade with?

Credit cards

kachinggg

—-

The USA seem to have no problem with it.

No worries like Zimbabwe.

where does money come from

loans

Parents that retire on their investments should consider investing in their children.

Be the bank.

Provide your child with an interest only loan. Cut out the middleman.

Wookie, I do hope you realise that the amount of money in the world isn’t something that was set when Moses bought the tablets down from the mountain , but that is something that actually increases over the years.

sibeen said:

Wookie, I do hope you realise that the amount of money in the world isn’t something that was set when Moses bought the tablets down from the mountain , but that is something that actually increases over the years.

more people, more money needed

the problem is that when we go past a certian point what was useful becomes cancerous

a loan will need interest to be paid

that interest is paid by us to the government, they take the bad loans we pay the price.

if we are using loans to create stuff that doesn’t actually make money we’re in trouble. if the roads are falling apart and we are opening yet another recreational space that no one really uses and we’ve taken a loan to pay for it that is a bad loan.

and then that interest disappears overseas

The Torah and Talmud encourage the granting of loans if they do not involve interest, with certain exceptions. Charging interest is classed in the Book of Ezekiel as being among the worst sins, and is forbidden according to Jewish law. The Talmud dwells particularly on Ezekiel’s condemnation of interest, where Ezekiel denounces it as an abomination, and metaphorically portrays usurers as people who have shed blood.

looks as if ezekiel was a victim of GE money too.

wookiemeister said:

The Talmud dwells particularly on Ezekiel’s condemnation of interest, where Ezekiel denounces it as an abomination, and metaphorically portrays usurers as people who have shed blood.

Bully for Ezekiel.

Not exactly true, wookie. Many Jewish scholars and rabbis allowed the payment of interest during the middle ages, whilst the Christian churches still called it usary, and basically outlawed the practice. The Jewish businessmen became the bankers of the European world and helped drive the renaissance.

It’s one of the major reasons that the Jews are pejoratively still seen as evil bankers. Without them, we would still be stuck in the dark ages. Compare it to the muslim world, where the usary laws still mainly apply. Going great guns, they are.

it must work for them

such laws can be worked around anyway

they always are

>it must work for them

It actually worked out quite well for all of us, except perhaps the Jews. They were vilified for an action that brought Europe out of being a cesspit and being quite the envy of the world.

The bastards!

The rich who were in a position to take advantage of the situation became the money-lenders when the ever-increasing tax demands in the last declining days of the Empire crippled and eventually destroyed the peasant class by reducing tenant-farmers to serfdom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

sound familiar?

sibeen said:

>it must work for them

It actually worked out quite well for all of us, except perhaps the Jews.

Especially when it was time to pay the loans back, which is when the Kings and Queens found it convenient to throw them out.

Shit, wookie, you don’t even read your own links.

From the first few sentences of that link:

Originally, when the charging of interest was still banned by Christian churches, usury simply meant the charging of interest at any rate (as well as charging a fee for the use of money, such as at a bureau de change). In countries where the charging of interest became acceptable, the term came to be used for interest above the rate allowed by law.

Wookie you have said nothing in this thread that supports your contention that we are about to go down the gurgler. Better luck next time.

sibeen said:

>it must work for them

It actually worked out quite well for all of us, except perhaps the Jews. They were vilified for an action that brought Europe out of being a cesspit and being quite the envy of the world.

The bastards!

no one forces anyone to do many things

it takes two to tango

sibeen said:

Shit, wookie, you don’t even read your own links.

From the first few sentences of that link:

Originally, when the charging of interest was still banned by Christian churches, usury simply meant the charging of interest at any rate (as well as charging a fee for the use of money, such as at a bureau de change). In countries where the charging of interest became acceptable, the term came to be used for interest above the rate allowed by law.

can you tell me what you are talking about?

Witty Rejoinder said:

Wookie you have said nothing in this thread that supports your contention that we are about to go down the gurgler. Better luck next time.

good for you

carry on as normal

wookiemeister said:

carry on as normal

I’ll bring this up again in five years time and shall be expecting a mea culpa from your fine self.

i’m putting this out as a warning

keep doing this and there will be consequences

if we cut the credit card up now and just pay it off all will be well

if we are taking these loans so people can rush out and buy TVs that will be sat in landfil 5 years from now we’ve got problems unless theres a rush on australian tv critics in foreign lands

>can you tell me what you are talking about?

OK. We’ll take this in some nice easy steps.

1. You claimed that charging interest was ‘illegal’ under Jewish Law.

2. I pointed out that, no, it was actually legal and agreed by Rabbinic scholarship during the Middle Ages, whilst at the same time the Christian Church banned the practice.

3. I then pointed out that Jewish businessmen then became the bankers of Europe, initiating the Renaissance.

4. I then claimed, I hope with some justification, that the Jews have been vilified for this action, whilst at the same time putting Europe into being the dominant force on this planet.

5. You then rabbited on about serfs and free tenants without knowing about of what you speak.

There, I think I’ve completed a precis of the discussion so far. I do hope it meets your approval.

wookiemeister said:

i’m putting this out as a warning

so if it all goes down you can say “i told you so”

3. I then pointed out that Jewish businessmen then became the bankers of Europe, initiating the Renaissance.
-

The renaissance was about much more than the creation of modern banking practices.

You claimed that charging interest was ‘illegal’ under Jewish Law.

whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

i never claimed anything , it was something i pulled out from wikipedia

i didn’t claim anything

i think remember having discussions with martin smith where he started arguing with me about statements he had made

Witty, I’m not claiming that it was, but with the circumstances at the time, without a modern banking style system many of the innovations that happened during the Renaissance would never have gotten of the ground. Like many things there needed to be a confluence of events to trigger an avalanche, and the banking system was certainly one of those trigger events.

jewish law can be twisted in whatver way you want for the outcome you need.

as can all “law”

>i never claimed anything , it was something i pulled out from wikipedia

i didn’t claim anything

——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

A lay down misère for post of the year.

I’m calling it now.

>ould never have gotten of the ground

OK, there may have been an extra ‘f’ in there somewhere.

the knights templar already had a banking system

sans the jewish connection – believe it or not

go to temple in the city of london and the “church” of the knights templar was actually one big vault that doubled as a church

this is the place shown in the da vinci code

the athenians had a big bank at delphi, its on the sacred way up to the pythia’s hang out, religion and money often go hand in hand

sibeen said:

>i never claimed anything , it was something i pulled out from wikipedia

i didn’t claim anything

——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

A lay down misère for post of the year.

I’m calling it now.

i think you’ll find i hold a fairly good deck

>>i think you’ll find i hold a fairly good deck<<

All jokers?

Given that we are the best performing economy ,

Why are people worried?

have a look at the QTC report using the link i’ve provided

before the GFC everyone was raving about growth etc etc – do you remember hearing any voice that said otherwise?

just have a look at the debt figures and then think about it

if power companies and water companies have taken massive loans who do you think will end up paying them?

can you think why these companies might then need to put prices up?

>if power companies and water companies have taken massive loans who do you think will end up paying them?

if power companies and water companies hadn’t taken out massive loans to improve their infrastructure we wouldn’t have power or water.

sibeen said:

>if power companies and water companies have taken massive loans who do you think will end up paying them?

if power companies and water companies hadn’t taken out massive loans to improve their infrastructure we wouldn’t have power or water.

maybe if power companies and water companies had thought about things a bit better they wouldn’t need them.

just don’t allow new places to be hooked up

it forces the government to reevaulate its scheme to keep bringing in more customers than it can deal with

Given that we are the best performing economy ,

Why are people worried?
——————————————————-

Ireland, Italy, Greece…

Ohh how they supped on the many breasted whore…

Much crazy talk in this thread…

party_pants said:

Much crazy talk in this thread…

I can’t be bothered reading through the thread, but lets not kid ourselves – we are in the position we are sitting on a pile of coal and iron ore and some other resources.

There are other countries out there that have resources. Brazil for example has iron ore, but you can trust me when I tell you that we are way ahead of them in technology and business practice.

morrie said:

party_pants said:

Much crazy talk in this thread…

I can’t be bothered reading through the thread, but lets not kid ourselves – we are in the position we are sitting on a pile of coal and iron ore and some other resources.

There are other countries out there that have resources. Brazil for example has iron ore, but you can trust me when I tell you that we are way ahead of them in technology and business practice.

We aren’t about to go broke overnight and be left with nothing but a big hole in the ground anyway. Not in the near future.

Damn the other forum has an edit function. I never get it right first time.

morrie said:

There are other countries out there that have resources. Brazil for example has iron ore, but you can trust me when I tell you that we are way ahead of them in technology and business practice.

I am about to go to bed so not going to argue the toss but I am not so convinced about the technology bit, Brazils aerospace and defence industrys which are high tech shits all over anything oz has.

roughbarked said:

morrie said:

party_pants said:

Much crazy talk in this thread…

I can’t be bothered reading through the thread, but lets not kid ourselves – we are in the position we are sitting on a pile of coal and iron ore and some other resources.

There are other countries out there that have resources. Brazil for example has iron ore, but you can trust me when I tell you that we are way ahead of them in technology and business practice.

We aren’t about to go broke overnight and be left with nothing but a big hole in the ground anyway. Not in the near future.

No, I think thats true.

But for ANY government to claim credit for it is like Jo claiming credit for the Qld weather.

Skunkworks said:

morrie said:

There are other countries out there that have resources. Brazil for example has iron ore, but you can trust me when I tell you that we are way ahead of them in technology and business practice.

I am about to go to bed so not going to argue the toss but I am not so convinced about the technology bit, Brazils aerospace and defence industrys which are high tech shits all over anything oz has.

I have been doing business with them. Selling them technology. I know what I am seeing.

I don’t dispute that Brazil might be competitors to us, or indeed Africa. (Who knows, they might even be potential cartel partners rather than commercial enemies). I’m just puzzled why anyone would think feeral government debt peaking at less than 10% of GDP is any sort of serious problem.

I think we are one of the few countries that have our finances under control structurally. Deficits during hard economic times and surpluses in the up-swing. Our welfare systems generally works without being too generous or too stingy.

I think some people don’t know how god we’ve got it.

party_pants said:

I don’t dispute that Brazil might be competitors to us, or indeed Africa. (Who knows, they might even be potential cartel partners rather than commercial enemies). I’m just puzzled why anyone would think feeral government debt peaking at less than 10% of GDP is any sort of serious problem.

I think we are one of the few countries that have our finances under control structurally. Deficits during hard economic times and surpluses in the up-swing. Our welfare systems generally works without being too generous or too stingy.

I think some people don’t know how god we’ve got it.

Africa is big and full of resouces, and a Chinese vanguard.

my prediction

queensland rail was sold off with debts of 3 billion

what do you think will happen to things such as power and other businesses with massive debt?

they will be sold off too

what we are witnessing is a strike at the economy.

you lend someone lots of money, get them into a bad situation then thye have to sell the goose that lays the golden eggs

no more goose, no more golden eggs, more taxes, loss of sovreignty. just to give you a heart warming heads up – they are bringing in 900 miners from poland because they won’t train anyone here to do the jobs in the mines.

Heads up; they brought miners from Cornwal and Ireland to make Australia wealthy.

wookiemeister said:

my prediction

queensland rail was sold off with debts of 3 billion

what do you think will happen to things such as power and other businesses with massive debt?

they will be sold off too

what we are witnessing is a strike at the economy.

you lend someone lots of money, get them into a bad situation then thye have to sell the goose that lays the golden eggs

no more goose, no more golden eggs, more taxes, loss of sovreignty. just to give you a heart warming heads up – they are bringing in 900 miners from poland because they won’t train anyone here to do the jobs in the mines.

Can you imagine how bored those poor bastards are going to be during the endless inductions?

wookiemeister said:

my prediction

queensland rail was sold off with debts of 3 billion

what do you think will happen to things such as power and other businesses with massive debt?

they will be sold off too

what we are witnessing is a strike at the economy.

you lend someone lots of money, get them into a bad situation then thye have to sell the goose that lays the golden eggs

no more goose, no more golden eggs, more taxes, loss of sovreignty. just to give you a heart warming heads up – they are bringing in 900 miners from poland because they won’t train anyone here to do the jobs in the mines.

Public assets have been sold off in this state too. Mostly bought up by private equity firms. Some (one in particular) are struggling under their debt now. If they get into trouble they will sell and another buyer will be found. The actual business will continue.

the price of everything will go up

as i said , they are trying to trigger an economic crash

wookiemeister said:

the price of everything will go up

as i said , they are trying to trigger an economic crash

prices are still capped by legislation, they can’t rise uncontrolled. non-issue.

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

the price of everything will go up

as i said , they are trying to trigger an economic crash

prices are still capped by legislation, they can’t rise uncontrolled. non-issue.

for how long?

they weren’t exactly broadcasting they had these debts. i didn’t see energex or ergon advertising their debt in their adverts with the guitar (wasted money)

given the debt, can you see why coal seam gas will continue regardless?

wookiemeister said:

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

the price of everything will go up

as i said , they are trying to trigger an economic crash

prices are still capped by legislation, they can’t rise uncontrolled. non-issue.

for how long?

they weren’t exactly broadcasting they had these debts. i didn’t see energex or ergon advertising their debt in their adverts with the guitar (wasted money)

given the debt, can you see why coal seam gas will continue regardless?

Every major company carries some level of debt. It is a non-issue as long as they can service it. That’s the way the world works.

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

party_pants said:

prices are still capped by legislation, they can’t rise uncontrolled. non-issue.

for how long?

they weren’t exactly broadcasting they had these debts. i didn’t see energex or ergon advertising their debt in their adverts with the guitar (wasted money)

given the debt, can you see why coal seam gas will continue regardless?

Every major company carries some level of debt. It is a non-issue as long as they can service it. That’s the way the world works.

right up until the wheels fall off the train

ever heard of the GFC??

in other news

can you see how thye are trying to triger a recession now??

http://www.ratecity.com.au/home-loans/mortgage-news/mortgage-defaults-soar-despite-falling-rates

Mortgage defaults soar, despite falling rates

More homeowners are falling behind on mortgage repayments, despite rate cuts and a low unemployment rate, research suggests.

The mortgage arrears rate jumped unexpectedly last quarter, up from 1.52 percent to 1.57 percent, according to research by ratings agency Fitch.

James Zanesi, director of Fitch’s Structured Finance team, said it’s too early to judge which factors contributed to the increase in arrears during quarter four of 2011.

“But to a measureable extent, declining house prices were the only key driver of mortgage performance to show a negative trend,” he said.

Missing a mortgage repayment could be more costly than homeowners realise, according to RateCity spokesperson Michelle Hutchison.

“Our data shows that the fee for missing a repayment – or mortgage arrears administration fee – is $31 on average (of the lenders which charge this fee) and some lenders charge up to $195 each missed payment,” she said.

“Miss two monthly payments and you could have been charged almost $400 as well as adding two additional months’ worth of interest to your loan.”

Heavy fees are not the only concern for borrowers, however. Delaying your mortgage repayments by more than 60 days is likely to be recorded on your credit file, she said.

It follows RateCity findings that some banks are back to lending almost the entire value of properties, putting borrowers at risk of mortgage defaults.

“After a couple of years of really tight lending criteria, things have started to loosen up a bit; there are now nearly 70 percent of home loans with loan-to-value-ratios of 95 percent and above. This compares to about 50 percent two years ago,” said Hutchison.

“Borrowers need to be cautious – a smaller deposit always brings greater risk. You owe a larger amount, so you’re more likely to be vulnerable to rate increases or any reduction in your income.”

In fact, during the past four years monthly mortgage repayments on a $400,000 home loan have fluctuated by $957.

“Monthly incomes certainly don’t fluctuate like this for most PAYE taxpayers – so huge swings in repayments place great pressure on their ability to not only meet repayments but also pay for other expenses,” she said.

Fitch said that although delinquency rates were increasing and were above historical Australian averages, they remain low relative to other countries.