so it doesn’t get lost in chat…

bon008 said:

I have another question from my friend with the young apple tree. It’s browning off around the edges of the leaves and he hasn’t gotten very far in trying to diagnose it with Google.

(clickable thumbnail – links to a pbucket page and then if you click the photo there, you get an even larger version)

I thought in the larger image that I could see little white scaly specks, but he had a look and reckons there’s no sign of any insects, scale etc.

Any advice? Thanks all :)

A number of possibilities come to mind: a fungal disease on the leaves; root problems (root rot, fungal disease of the roots); overwatering/underwatering; poor drainage.

What is the climate like where it is? I would expect it to have lost its leaves over winter unless it is up north? Are they old leaves or new leaves? has there been a lot of rain or watering? What is the drainage like? Is the soil around the roots very wet or very dry? Does the soil smell sour?

bluegreen said:

so it doesn’t get lost in chat…

bon008 said:

I have another question from my friend with the young apple tree. It’s browning off around the edges of the leaves and he hasn’t gotten very far in trying to diagnose it with Google.

(clickable thumbnail – links to a pbucket page and then if you click the photo there, you get an even larger version)

I thought in the larger image that I could see little white scaly specks, but he had a look and reckons there’s no sign of any insects, scale etc.

Any advice? Thanks all :)

A number of possibilities come to mind: a fungal disease on the leaves; root problems (root rot, fungal disease of the roots); overwatering/underwatering; poor drainage.

What is the climate like where it is? I would expect it to have lost its leaves over winter unless it is up north? Are they old leaves or new leaves? has there been a lot of rain or watering? What is the drainage like? Is the soil around the roots very wet or very dry? Does the soil smell sour?

I know zilch about groweing apple trees but the look of those leaves could be any of the things BG has mentioned or even over fertilising. Have they fertilised it at all?

good call pomolo. Fertiliser burn definitely a contender.

I would say it’s a bit late to lose those old leaves, but some varieties are only starting to lose them now.

Happy Potter said:

I would say it’s a bit late to lose those old leaves, but some varieties are only starting to lose them now.

do you think it just might be normal then? Losing the old leaves in preparation for Spring?

bluegreen said:

Happy Potter said:

I would say it’s a bit late to lose those old leaves, but some varieties are only starting to lose them now.

do you think it just might be normal then? Losing the old leaves in preparation for Spring?

Yes, the leaves look old and too big for new growth. My numerous apple varieties all lose leaves at varying rates and look like these before they yellow and fall.

Happy Potter said:

bluegreen said:

Happy Potter said:

I would say it’s a bit late to lose those old leaves, but some varieties are only starting to lose them now.

do you think it just might be normal then? Losing the old leaves in preparation for Spring?

Yes, the leaves look old and too big for new growth. My numerous apple varieties all lose leaves at varying rates and look like these before they yellow and fall.

that’s good news then. Not having apples yet I am not up on their cycle :)

If I was walking past the tree and Keith asked me what was wrong with the leaves, I would grasp the tip of the tree in the thumb and forefinger of one hand, make a loose ring of my other hand and slide it down the branch thus knocking all the leaves off. Then I’d turn and say to him, “nothing, now”

roughbarked said:

If I was walking past the tree and Keith asked me what was wrong with the leaves, I would grasp the tip of the tree in the thumb and forefinger of one hand, make a loose ring of my other hand and slide it down the branch thus knocking all the leaves off. Then I’d turn and say to him, “nothing, now”

lol!

bluegreen said:

roughbarked said:

If I was walking past the tree and Keith asked me what was wrong with the leaves, I would grasp the tip of the tree in the thumb and forefinger of one hand, make a loose ring of my other hand and slide it down the branch thus knocking all the leaves off. Then I’d turn and say to him, “nothing, now”

lol!

sensauma aside, ;) If Keith has planted an apple tree or any deciduous tree where it isn’t cold enough to make the leaves fall off, then he should strip the leaves by hand or mechanical methods. He should also realise that apples love the cold. That’s why apples are only grown commercially in cold areas. Thus not to expect too much from an apple not planted in a cold area.

roughbarked said:

bluegreen said:

roughbarked said:

If I was walking past the tree and Keith asked me what was wrong with the leaves, I would grasp the tip of the tree in the thumb and forefinger of one hand, make a loose ring of my other hand and slide it down the branch thus knocking all the leaves off. Then I’d turn and say to him, “nothing, now”

lol!

sensauma aside, ;) If Keith has planted an apple tree or any deciduous tree where it isn’t cold enough to make the leaves fall off, then he should strip the leaves by hand or mechanical methods. He should also realise that apples love the cold. That’s why apples are only grown commercially in cold areas. Thus not to expect too much from an apple not planted in a cold area.

That too. I’m always forgetting they need chilling time. It’s so cold here. I wrongly assume that people know to plant apples in cold winter areas only.

Ps, who’s Keith? lol

Happy Potter said:

roughbarked said:

bluegreen said:

lol!

sensauma aside, ;) If Keith has planted an apple tree or any deciduous tree where it isn’t cold enough to make the leaves fall off, then he should strip the leaves by hand or mechanical methods. He should also realise that apples love the cold. That’s why apples are only grown commercially in cold areas. Thus not to expect too much from an apple not planted in a cold area.

That too. I’m always forgetting they need chilling time. It’s so cold here. I wrongly assume that people know to plant apples in cold winter areas only.

Ps, who’s Keith? lol

Keith? http://s113.photobucket.com/albums/n221/b_o_n_0_0_7/?action=view¤t=keith_apple_tree_2.jpg

roughbarked said:

Happy Potter said:

roughbarked said:

sensauma aside, ;) If Keith has planted an apple tree or any deciduous tree where it isn’t cold enough to make the leaves fall off, then he should strip the leaves by hand or mechanical methods. He should also realise that apples love the cold. That’s why apples are only grown commercially in cold areas. Thus not to expect too much from an apple not planted in a cold area.

That too. I’m always forgetting they need chilling time. It’s so cold here. I wrongly assume that people know to plant apples in cold winter areas only.

Ps, who’s Keith? lol

Keith? http://s113.photobucket.com/albums/n221/b_o_n_0_0_7/?action=view¤t=keith_apple_tree_2.jpg

Der, me, lol

bluegreen said:

so it doesn’t get lost in chat…

bon008 said:

I have another question from my friend with the young apple tree. It’s browning off around the edges of the leaves and he hasn’t gotten very far in trying to diagnose it with Google.

(clickable thumbnail – links to a pbucket page and then if you click the photo there, you get an even larger version)

I thought in the larger image that I could see little white scaly specks, but he had a look and reckons there’s no sign of any insects, scale etc.

Any advice? Thanks all :)

A number of possibilities come to mind: a fungal disease on the leaves; root problems (root rot, fungal disease of the roots); overwatering/underwatering; poor drainage.

What is the climate like where it is? I would expect it to have lost its leaves over winter unless it is up north? Are they old leaves or new leaves? has there been a lot of rain or watering? What is the drainage like? Is the soil around the roots very wet or very dry? Does the soil smell sour?

Thanks BG – I got really busy after posting that and then disappeared!

Hmm, I think I will have to get my friend to visit the forum :D

Thanks all – I’ve sent Keith the link to the forum to read your thoughts :)

Thanks for the advice all.

The tree was fertilised late autumn/early winter and from memory it was a bit late losing its leaves last year – well into September (if my memory isn’t playing tricks on me). I’ll keep an eye on the new leaves this year, but I don’t recall last year’s ever looking particularly healthy. It hasn’t grown an awful lot yet either (in the ground for about a year and a half), but I’m hoping that’s just down to it getting itself established.

The climate is..Perth, so yeah it doesn’t get super cold or anything :) But I didn’t plant it ever expecting a bountiful harvest.

- Keith

MrCat said:

Thanks for the advice all.

The tree was fertilised late autumn/early winter and from memory it was a bit late losing its leaves last year – well into September (if my memory isn’t playing tricks on me). I’ll keep an eye on the new leaves this year, but I don’t recall last year’s ever looking particularly healthy. It hasn’t grown an awful lot yet either (in the ground for about a year and a half), but I’m hoping that’s just down to it getting itself established.

The climate is..Perth, so yeah it doesn’t get super cold or anything :) But I didn’t plant it ever expecting a bountiful harvest.

- Keith

Doesn’t need super cold. Just needs at least some frosts.

roughbarked said:

MrCat said:

Thanks for the advice all.

The tree was fertilised late autumn/early winter and from memory it was a bit late losing its leaves last year – well into September (if my memory isn’t playing tricks on me). I’ll keep an eye on the new leaves this year, but I don’t recall last year’s ever looking particularly healthy. It hasn’t grown an awful lot yet either (in the ground for about a year and a half), but I’m hoping that’s just down to it getting itself established.

The climate is..Perth, so yeah it doesn’t get super cold or anything :) But I didn’t plant it ever expecting a bountiful harvest.

- Keith

Doesn’t need super cold. Just needs at least some frosts.

Keith has very bizarre views on what constitutes cold weather – I could have icicles hanging off my nose and he would insist it’s merely a touch brisk :D

I’ve always wondered how frosty it has to be to be called “a frost”. We get a good few nights every winter where you will get grass, particularly on ovals, going white and frosty, but in my experience that mostly only happens on wide open areas – much less common in gardens. And I’ve never seen frostiness up higher than ground level, either – except on my car windscreen!

bon008 said:

roughbarked said:

MrCat said:

Thanks for the advice all.

The tree was fertilised late autumn/early winter and from memory it was a bit late losing its leaves last year – well into September (if my memory isn’t playing tricks on me). I’ll keep an eye on the new leaves this year, but I don’t recall last year’s ever looking particularly healthy. It hasn’t grown an awful lot yet either (in the ground for about a year and a half), but I’m hoping that’s just down to it getting itself established.

The climate is..Perth, so yeah it doesn’t get super cold or anything :) But I didn’t plant it ever expecting a bountiful harvest.

- Keith

Doesn’t need super cold. Just needs at least some frosts.

Keith has very bizarre views on what constitutes cold weather – I could have icicles hanging off my nose and he would insist it’s merely a touch brisk :D

I’ve always wondered how frosty it has to be to be called “a frost”. We get a good few nights every winter where you will get grass, particularly on ovals, going white and frosty, but in my experience that mostly only happens on wide open areas – much less common in gardens. And I’ve never seen frostiness up higher than ground level, either – except on my car windscreen!

Frost is a different thing to ambient temperatures.. http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/climate_averages/frost/index.jsp?period=an&thold=lt0deg#maps
I can recall waking up from dreaming the tent was buried under snow.. to bang my head on a canvas frozen stiff, just near Pemberton.

Just 2ºC difference.

roughbarked said:

Frost is a different thing to ambient temperatures.. http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/climate_averages/frost/index.jsp?period=an&thold=lt0deg#maps
I can recall waking up from dreaming the tent was buried under snow.. to bang my head on a canvas frozen stiff, just near Pemberton.

So the definition of frost is independent of the minimum temperature, and just has to do with the amount of ice formed?

bon008 said:

roughbarked said:

Frost is a different thing to ambient temperatures.. http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/climate_averages/frost/index.jsp?period=an&thold=lt0deg#maps
I can recall waking up from dreaming the tent was buried under snow.. to bang my head on a canvas frozen stiff, just near Pemberton.

So the definition of frost is independent of the minimum temperature, and just has to do with the amount of ice formed?

Temperatures only indicate that frosts are possible. Temperatures are only collected at registered sites. Not in frosty or foggy hollows.. They are designed to gather averages.. Not extremes.

Now again it is about the heat transference between soil level temp and the air above it.

Inversion layers may cause zones of space not necessarily on the soil surface, that may be up to 10ºC lower than the surrounding zones.

A customer brought a branch from a boobialla she had bought as a seedling from me.

it was black right through the middle and green either side.

She said she had taken it around all the other nurseries and they couldn’t tell her what was wrong. My comment was, frost. She said but how?

I said, “inversion layer. Just cut below the black bit.. You may be able to make cuttings out of the green bits you cut off if you are lucky but the roots are still alive”.