OK, the discussion has been started in chat. I’ll move it here.
My favourite of all time, “Thick as a Brick” – Jethro Tull.
OK, the discussion has been started in chat. I’ll move it here.
My favourite of all time, “Thick as a Brick” – Jethro Tull.
I love Natalie D-Napoleon’s covers of ‘Shook Me All Night Long’ and ‘To Her Door’, but they are both singles. Does anyone really cover albums?
DSOTM
Often copied, never bettered..
Bat out of Hell was also awesome.
sibeen said:
OK, the discussion has been started in chat. I’ll move it here.My favourite of all time, “Thick as a Brick” – Jethro Tull.
ooohh I know that one!
There was also playing around with laser cut records for something different. The Warhol jeans album for the Rolling Stones. Shared artwork theme ala Kiss. Sex Pistols Never Mind the Bollocks with the Bambi theme.
I think it fair to say there was a bit more room and scope for art on the old records. When they released a CD with just a smaller version of the album cover it lost a lot.
Dropbear said:
DSOTM
+1
Dropbear said:
DSOTMOften copied, never bettered..
Bat out of Hell was also awesome.
The intro on the actual album was haunting to a young and impressionable monkey skipper!
Tool always puts a lot of effort into cd covers and inserts
Anemia for example has the moving pictures when you flip the cd back and forth, amusing that they have a picture of a man oral pleasuring himself as one of the pictures
Jeff Wayne’s ‘The War of the Worlds’ was quite striking. One of the first albums I every owned.
monkey skipper said:
Dropbear said:
DSOTMOften copied, never bettered..
Bat out of Hell was also awesome.
The intro on the actual album was haunting to a young and impressionable monkey skipper!
I saw Roger Waters play DSOTM live in its entirety… The intro “pulse” heartbeat was extended for ages and they played it over a video of a satellite in orbit..
Sill the best concert I’ve been to.
I have the parrot tatt from the AC/DC Dirty Deeds album.
Stealth said:
Jeff Wayne’s ‘The War of the Worlds’ was quite striking. One of the first albums I every owned.
another powerful piece in history.
And Cats, I like the cover of Cats (even though I am not fond of real cats).
Skunkworks said:
I have the parrot tatt from the AC/DC Dirty Deeds album.
if the tat starts talking to you. run is my suggestion to you!
:-)
did ya see the re-inactment of the acca dacca song the other day?
john paul young, master’s apprentices lads, john stevens and and and some others too.
Stealth said:
And Cats, I like the cover of Cats (even though I am not fond of real cats).
Which reminds me RatCat had that graphic theme going which was done by the lead singer. Bit like the Rolling Stones Lips logo.
monkey skipper said:
did ya see the re-inactment of the acca dacca song the other day?john paul young, master’s apprentices lads, john stevens and and and some others too.
Nope, missed that.
DSOTM
Hmm, love the album, but the cover art work and filler was a bit boring IMHO.
sibeen said:
DSOTMHmm, love the album, but the cover art work and filler was a bit boring IMHO.
Heathen :) it’s the spectrum from a prism… Golly
monkey skipper said:
Skunkworks said:
I have the parrot tatt from the AC/DC Dirty Deeds album.
if the tat starts talking to you. run is my suggestion to you!
:-)
did ya see the re-inactment of the acca dacca song the other day?
john paul young, master’s apprentices lads, john stevens and and and some others too.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-night/features/article/-/14515552/long-way-to-the-top/
>Tool always puts a lot of effort into cd covers and inserts
Anemia for example has the moving pictures when you flip the cd back and forth, amusing that they have a picture of a man oral pleasuring himself as one of the pictures
Hmm, sounds a bit derivative from “Brain Salad Surgery” by ELP.
sibeen said:
>Tool always puts a lot of effort into cd covers and inserts
Anemia for example has the moving pictures when you flip the cd back and forth, amusing that they have a picture of a man oral pleasuring himself as one of the picturesHmm, sounds a bit derivative from “Brain Salad Surgery” by ELP.
Please forgive me if it all (looks) so familiar
i’m sure you’ve (seen) this all before
i’m only one album cover in a world of billions
and no idea’s original no more
http://rateyourmusic.com/list/fedderedder/rolling_stones_100_greatest_album_covers
poikilotherm said:
Please forgive me if it all (looks) so familiar
i’m sure you’ve (seen) this all before
i’m only one album cover in a world of billions
and no idea’s original no more
Phraze.
http://rateyourmusic.com/list/fedderedder/rolling_stones_100_greatest_album_covershttp://rateyourmusic.com/list/fedderedder/rolling_stones_100_greatest_album_covers
Out of the top 30 I have 9 of the albums.
Dropbear said:
http://rateyourmusic.com/list/fedderedder/rolling_stones_100_greatest_album_covers
David Bowie himself in the era of Ziggy Stardust was an interesting spectacle.
Then there is the Paul McCartney dead thing with clues in two (maybe more) of the album covers according to those conspiracy people.
Skunkworks said:
Then there is the Paul McCartney dead thing with clues in two (maybe more) of the album covers according to those conspiracy people.
yeah – quite famously too.
Back masking is difficult in the era of digital media!
:P
>Then there is the Paul McCartney dead thing with clues in two (maybe more) of the album covers according to those conspiracy people.
Actually, I’m a bit surprised that Abbey Road didn’t make the top 20. Easily the most copied / simulated cover of all times…and yes, I’ve done it myself.
Must give the people living on that street the shits.
sibeen said:
>Then there is the Paul McCartney dead thing with clues in two (maybe more) of the album covers according to those conspiracy people.Actually, I’m a bit surprised that Abbey Road didn’t make the top 20. Easily the most copied / simulated cover of all times…and yes, I’ve done it myself.
Must give the people living on that street the shits.
That volkswagon keeps getting sold to collectors.
sibeen said:
>Then there is the Paul McCartney dead thing with clues in two (maybe more) of the album covers according to those conspiracy people.Actually, I’m a bit surprised that Abbey Road didn’t make the top 20. Easily the most copied / simulated cover of all times…and yes, I’ve done it myself.
Must give the people living on that street the shits.
I’ve seen the beatnix play live. Does that count for something?
sibeen said:
…and yes, I’ve done it myself.
You really are getting the band back together.
That album by the …um… whatsernames… with the baby being slightly drowned in pool… That didn’t make it either.
Shit, they haven’t given Abbey road a top 100 place.
I have to call bullshit.
Alan Parson Project album covers were often interesting.
Stealth said:
That album by the …um… whatsernames… with the baby being slightly drowned in pool… That didn’t make it either.
nirvana
with the baby being slightly drowned in pool
Nevermind – Nirvana.
Although “Wish you were here” got in the list, so it is at least half respectable.
>You really are getting the band back together.
I did the Abbey Road walk about 6 months after i sold the original company, so about 12 years ago.
Stealth said:
That album by the …um… whatsernames… with the baby being slightly drowned in pool… That didn’t make it either.
Nirvana?
sibeen said:
Must give the people living on that street the shits.
It’s probably the only thing that props up the uber-hyped house prices. Fuck knows you wouldn’t want to live there for any other reason.
;-)
what does the original cover for stairway to heaven look like? several come up
sibeen said:
with the baby being slightly drowned in poolNevermind – Nirvana.
>>>The Nevermind album cover shows a circumcised baby boy, alone underwater with a US dollar bill on a fishhook just out of his reach. According to Cobain, he conceived the idea while watching a television program on water births with Grohl. Cobain mentioned it to Geffen’s art director Robert Fisher. Fisher found some stock footage of underwater births but they were too graphic for the record company. Also, the stock house that controlled the photo of a swimming baby that they subsequently settled on wanted $7,500 a year for its use, so instead Fisher sent a photographer to a pool for babies to take pictures. Five shots resulted and the band settled on the image of a three-month-old infant named Spencer Elden, the son of the photographer’s friend. However, there was some concern because Elden’s penis was visible in the image. Geffen prepared an alternate cover without the penis, as they were afraid that it would offend people, but relented when Cobain made it clear that the only compromise he would accept was a sticker covering the penis that would say, “If you’re offended by this, you must be a closet pedophile.”<<<
>what does the original cover for stairway to heaven look like? several come up
Wasn’t an album. Was on Led Zep IX.
>Was on Led Zep IX.
COUGH
IV
https://static.zoovy.com/img/2bhip/-/blog_images/led_zeppelin_stairway_to_heaven
this comes up and looks familiar.
i was too young for the era of release of the album it has only been in more recent years that i really listened to led zepplin
Albums that just show the band tend to date badly, all muscle shirts, soft focus and mullet hairdos.
Skunkworks said:
Albums that just show the band tend to date badly, all muscle shirts, soft focus and mullet hairdos.
back in black was a very simple cover and yet that album holds a record
monkey skipper said:
i was too young for the era of release of the album it has only been in more recent years that i really listened to led zepplin
When I got rid of my records (yeah I know a bit silly but hindsight and all that) I got the boxed remastered set. Still gets a going.
Skunkworks said:
monkey skipper said:
i was too young for the era of release of the album it has only been in more recent years that i really listened to led zepplin
When I got rid of my records (yeah I know a bit silly but hindsight and all that) I got the boxed remastered set. Still gets a going.
why did you hoy your records?
monkey skipper said:
why did you hoy your records?
They were well used and worn scratched etc and I went over to CDs, cos the sound was better. I accept that there are arguments about that, but you can play a CD a lot louder than a record. And I wasnt a fanatical keeper, they got used, left on the carpet whilst another one was selected, put back into the wrong covers, etc. Plus, I tend not to hang on to stuff, and with postings every three years ago I have hoiked out lots of stuff I wish now I had kept.
Skunkworks said:
monkey skipper said:why did you hoy your records?They were well used and worn scratched etc and I went over to CDs, cos the sound was better. I accept that there are arguments about that, but you can play a CD a lot louder than a record. And I wasnt a fanatical keeper, they got used, left on the carpet whilst another one was selected, put back into the wrong covers, etc. Plus, I tend not to hang on to stuff, and with postings every three years ago I have hoiked out lots of stuff I wish now I had kept.
fair enough.
night——>
Led Zep was seriously over rated IMO other than StH and Kashmir
monkey skipper said:
Skunkworks said:
Albums that just show the band tend to date badly, all muscle shirts, soft focus and mullet hairdos.
back in black was a very simple cover and yet that album holds a record
Yep. That is an awesome cover. Awesome album.
I was 11 when I borrowed this album from my neighbour across the road….
:)
I used to sit on the couch playing air drums, using chop sticks as drum sticks! lol

Dropbear said:
Led Zep was seriously over rated IMO other than StH and Kashmir
I liked the sweeping epicness of some of the songs, rock meets orchestra.
Hard to pick a favourite.
Accadacca, Queen and Slade were in my collection.
If I had to pick one, it would be this:

Kingy said:
Hard to pick a favourite.Accadacca, Queen and Slade were in my collection.
If I had to pick one, it would be this:
Anyone remember this compilation album from K-tel?
HAHAHA
Featuring that smash hit, Space Invaders…

Stealth said:
Kingy said:
Hard to pick a favourite.Accadacca, Queen and Slade were in my collection.
If I had to pick one, it would be this:
OooookayIt was probably the music rather than the album art that moved it up my list.
Another Jethro Tull album would be on my list. Aqualung.
And this one.

I’ve got Cheap Thrills JJ and BB&the Holding Co, among many albums.. the cover on Thick as a Brick was enough reading to keep you going through the whole album.. Disraeli gears and Wheels of Fire were Martin Sharp creations. The original release of Tommy had a great and interesting cover. Brain Salad surgery was interesting enough but it was just a copy of an existing work of art. Big fan of Roger Dean’s artwork on the covers of albums by bands like Yes and Asia.
For a while there, more money was actually being spent on album covers than actually pressing the vinyl and distribution. I enjoyed many album covers and haven’t really purchased many albums since they started making CD’s. I enjoyed covers that actually depicted somewhat of the comment within the covers.. ie the choking smoky cover of Question of Balance, with the band as tourists watching it all from the comfort of a tropical beach or that of Every Good Boy Deserves Favour I did enjoy the Moody Blues covers. In search of the Lost Chord, To our childrens childrens children. The Stones had a couple of good ones, namely the one with the jeans zipper and the octagonal Through the past Darkly.. Odgens Nutgone, was a cool concept as were those first laser coloured discs by Curved Air ~ Liquid acrobat as regards the air.. . Does anyone remember the camel walking in basketball boots and dreaming of riding in a convertible, off the Its a Beautiful Day – Choice Quality Stuff album or indeed the covers of albums like the twelve dreams of Dr Sardonicus ~ Spirit? Look at yourself, Uriah Heep, Phantasmagoria(another Curved Air album).. Who’s Next was a pisser.

I’ve got a few faves but this is probably one of the very best album covers of all time and is still the best R&B album of its time(not many were still playing R&B at the time..)


This has always intrigued me, maybe the memories associated with it?
kii said:
![]()
This has always intrigued me, maybe the memories associated with it?
Well, they weren’t standing up.. ;)
Aqualung was another great Tull album cover.Dang.. the internet doesn’t seem to remember: its a big bad beautiful day~choice quality stuff, anytime.
Obscure bandsAnother of their albums was self titled.. its a beautiful day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogdens%27_Nut_Gone_Flake
note: Packaging
The album was originally released on vinyl in a circular novelty package of a metal replica of a giant tobacco tin inside which was a poster created with 5 connected paper circles with pictures of the band members. This proved too expensive and was quickly followed by a paper/card replica with a gatefold cover. Two limited-edition CD releases (including a three-disc deluxe edition in 2006 that included the original mono mix of the album on CD for the first time) went even further by packaging the disc(s) in a circular tin (as the original vinyl release had). However, most CD releases use conventional packaging, superimposing the circular artwork on a square booklet.
The award-winning artwork for the album cover was done by Mick Swan who was a product of the sixties art school scene. Any other work by him is unknown but he is known to have worked as a fine arts tutor at Lowestoft F.E. College in 1974.
From Wiki: In 1966 Martin published a selection of cartoons in the book Martin Sharp Cartoons. “Swinging London” was the mecca for young artists, writers and musicians, and after the Oz trials, Sharp and Neville needed little encouragement to leave Australia. They set off on an overland trek through Asia, parting company in Kathmandu and making their separate ways to London.
On arrival, Sharp stayed for a short time with Neville’s sister, writer Jill Neville in Knightsbridge. It was at this time that he was introduced to a musician in the famous London nightclub, The Speakeasy. During the evening Sharp told the musician about a poem he had recently written; the musician in turn told Martin that he was looking for a lyric for some new music he had just written. Sharp obligingly wrote out the poem and his address on a serviette and gave it to his new acquaintance.
The musician turned out to be acclaimed guitarist Eric Clapton. The song that resulted from the meeting, “Tales of Brave Ulysses”, was recorded as the B-side of Cream’s smash hit “Strange Brew” and was included on Cream’s second album Disraeli Gears. His friendship with Clapton led to the commission to design the famous ‘dayglo’ psychedelic collage cover for that album, which included painted photographs by Sharp’s friend Robert Whitaker, whom Sharp knew from Australia and whose studio was in the same building where Sharp lived.
The following year Sharp designed the spectacular gatefold sleeve for Cream’s third album, the double LP set Wheels of Fire (1968), for which he won the New York Art Directors Prize for Best Album Design in 1969. He also designed the cover for the eponymous debut L.P. of London underground legends Mighty Baby (1969).

http://www.amazon.com/Killing-Pleasure-Definitive-Snowtown-Murders/dp/1740512480
Seriously?
Wow, I am getting very spoilt with what I pay for books.
Oops…

Hmm. I seem to have the same taste in music as Roughie. I have that King Crimson album and my other fave that I show kids who don’t know what it’s like to buy an album and have that beautiful artwork is Grave New World by the Strawbs.
It opens up into a poster sized piece of art 36” by 12” .

> I have that King Crimson album
+1
sibeen said:
> I have that King Crimson album+1
And Who’s Next is the best thing they ever did.
Rick Wakeman moved from the Strawbs to Yes..
Rick Wakeman moved from the Strawbs to Yes..
noooooo?
pommiejohn said:
sibeen said:
> I have that King Crimson album+1
And Who’s Next is the best thing they ever did.
There be two of the greatest albums ever. In the court of the Crimson King and Who’s Next.
roughbarked said:
pommiejohn said:
sibeen said:
> I have that King Crimson album+1
And Who’s Next is the best thing they ever did.
There be two of the greatest albums ever. In the court of the Crimson King and Who’s Next.
And just to show how much of a music nerd I am.. Greg Lake ( of ELP) played bass on the Court of the Crimson King.
Boris said:
Rick Wakeman moved from the Strawbs to Yes..noooooo?
Not everyone ever heard of the Strawbs.. More people know of Rick Wakeman or Yes.
pommiejohn said:
roughbarked said:
pommiejohn said:And Who’s Next is the best thing they ever did.
There be two of the greatest albums ever. In the court of the Crimson King and Who’s Next.
And just to show how much of a music nerd I am.. Greg Lake ( of ELP) played bass on the Court of the Crimson King.
Greg Lake did Bass and vocals for King Crimson on all their albums up to: in the wake of posideon. Jon Anderson(of Yes) came in for a song on Lizard..
Those old album covers are worth money these days. I almost sold mine recently. I mean, I never listen to them any more. At a recent fair, run of the mill albums were going for $12 each. A friend sells collectors items at his shop for more than that.
this is my first ever album that I bought as a young impressionable five yr old…
http://991.com/NewGallery/Abba-Arrival—-Deluxe-367236.jpg
and for that reason it’s my favourite
morrie said:
Those old album covers are worth money these days. I almost sold mine recently. I mean, I never listen to them any more. At a recent fair, run of the mill albums were going for $12 each. A friend sells collectors items at his shop for more than that.
I keep wondering about selling my miss-labeled Jimi Hendrix album. Right cover, right vinyl, wrong label on one side. Must be worth a fortune :)

At a quiz night on the weekend, they handed out a page of album covers with some words missing and you had to guess the missing words. This was one of them.

Oh dear oh dear oh dear :(
morrie said:
Those old album covers are worth money these days. I almost sold mine recently. I mean, I never listen to them any more. At a recent fair, run of the mill albums were going for $12 each. A friend sells collectors items at his shop for more than that.
OK .. wonder if said friend wants to help refinance me by taking all my collectors items
… notes
roughbarked said:
morrie said:
Those old album covers are worth money these days. I almost sold mine recently. I mean, I never listen to them any more. At a recent fair, run of the mill albums were going for $12 each. A friend sells collectors items at his shop for more than that.
OK .. wonder if said friend wants to help refinance me by taking all my collectors items
morrie said:
At a quiz night on the weekend, they handed out a page of album covers with some words missing and you had to guess the missing words. This was one of them.
Gold!
What was the answer?
pommiejohn said:
Gold!What was the answer?
I’ll put my hand up to owning this one too.

morrie said:
pommiejohn said:
Gold!What was the answer?
They had the word “blowing” blacked out. We guessed “Jesus”
I guessed… notes

I’ll put my hand up to owning this one too.
——————
Yes!
Oo…that’s a bit big :/
One of my favourite songs on that – Dancing Wizard.
pommiejohn said:
I’ll put my hand up to owning this one too.
close to the edge.. down by the river..
I have all the Yes albums.. Close to the edge was given to me by a pommie whio was camped at our place.. a Chris Nash from London(haven’t seen him since).. I fixed the plexi on his wristwatch.. he gave me Close to the Edge as a birthday present. I came home from work and he had a hot bath running.. said.. go and enjoy your bath.. I relaxed into the bath and close to the edge came slowly building through the walls.. (I had a powerful stereo).Had to be one of the best birthday presents I ever got.
kii said:
Oo…that’s a bit big :/One of my favourite songs on that – Dancing Wizard.
Sopwith Camels were what Biggles flew, in the first war.
At the time, I wasn’t even aware the album had been released.. it hadn’t.. Chris got his brother to send it over from England.. so yes.. mine is actually the first copy ever to land in Australia.. or at least, to my knowledge.
In fact, one musician I know asked me to do an album cover for him.. So I did make several options for him to choose from.. but he never did bother, since his eccentric nature meant that he was off somewhere else when I showed them to him..
Similarly, Roger Dean selected me out of a crowd of people at the exhibition he was doing in Glebe(35th anniversary tour of the band, Yes). I was just standing there looking at his artwork, he was chatting away to others.. then his voice came across the room, “excuse me, how is that tshirt printed?” I turned around and said, which? He said, “the one you are wearing..” So we got talking.. I told him that Rick Wakeman had written {NOT INVITED} on the album I asked him to sign.. He said, “yeah, Rick has been sacked almost as many times as I have.” So then I told him how Steve Howe (my Hero) had slapped my proffered hand away, with his left hand.. too which he replied, “his hands are precious and he has almost had a fear of crushing handshakes from grateful fans.”
roughbarked said:
In fact, one musician I know asked me to do an album cover for him.. So I did make several options for him to choose from.. but he never did bother, since his eccentric nature meant that he was off somewhere else when I showed them to him..Similarly, Roger Dean selected me out of a crowd of people at the exhibition he was doing in Glebe(35th anniversary tour of the band, Yes). I was just standing there looking at his artwork, he was chatting away to others.. then his voice came across the room, “excuse me, how is that tshirt printed?” I turned around and said, which? He said, “the one you are wearing..” So we got talking.. I told him that Rick Wakeman had written {NOT INVITED} on the album I asked him to sign.. He said, “yeah, Rick has been sacked almost as many times as I have.” So then I told him how Steve Howe (my Hero) had slapped my proffered hand away, with his left hand.. too which he replied, “his hands are precious and he has almost had a fear of crushing handshakes from grateful fans.”
What did the “Not Invited” thing mean?
They seem a bit up themselves.
A mate of mine is a Shadows fan and wrote to the guitar player, err, not Hank, the other one and didn’t get a letter back…. he got a phone call from him!!!
pommiejohn said:
Not invited.. meant that he wasn’t playing on the album I asked him to sign.
roughbarked said:
In fact, one musician I know asked me to do an album cover for him.. So I did make several options for him to choose from.. but he never did bother, since his eccentric nature meant that he was off somewhere else when I showed them to him..Similarly, Roger Dean selected me out of a crowd of people at the exhibition he was doing in Glebe(35th anniversary tour of the band, Yes). I was just standing there looking at his artwork, he was chatting away to others.. then his voice came across the room, “excuse me, how is that tshirt printed?” I turned around and said, which? He said, “the one you are wearing..” So we got talking.. I told him that Rick Wakeman had written {NOT INVITED} on the album I asked him to sign.. He said, “yeah, Rick has been sacked almost as many times as I have.” So then I told him how Steve Howe (my Hero) had slapped my proffered hand away, with his left hand.. too which he replied, “his hands are precious and he has almost had a fear of crushing handshakes from grateful fans.”
What did the “Not Invited” thing mean?
They seem a bit up themselves.
A mate of mine is a Shadows fan and wrote to the guitar player, err, not Hank, the other one and didn’t get a letter back…. he got a phone call from him!!!
roughbarked said:
Not invited.. meant that he wasn’t playing on the album I asked him to sign.
Ah, OK, fair enough.
Speaking of memories.. I arranged for a small group of friends to go see the band, America when they came and played in our local club.. The band before was a local heavy rock band and there would have been at least 500 people there.. When they packed up and Dewey and the lads walked out on stage.. there were only myself and my small group of friends left in the room. Dewey called us down to the front of the stage and gave us a private performance. During the performance he told us.. why he had come to our town.. to play a game of golf on our course and look for bearded dragons. So guess who cornered him after the show while we were having drinkies with the band..? We spent the next morning out on the golf course.
I was a Shadows fan, he was on every Saturday matinee between movies at the Imperial Theatre.
I remember one episode where he lay down on the railway track and as a train passed over hime he grabbed and axle and then lifted himself up between two carriages, I could hardly watch I was sure he would have sustained serious injuries but no he was fighting fit when he got on to the train, it was unbelievable.
But that was The Shadow, just when you thought he was finished he’d find a way to triumph, I wonder whatever became of him?
A response to m posting of the choice quality stuff album cover.. Samples : http://www.emusic.com/listen/#/album/its-a-beautiful-day/its-a-big-bad-beautiful-day-choice-quality-stuff/10860835/
To prove what I said about Yes.. that’s my daughter in back..

and yes, kii would probably recognise the bookstore chain.
Should have said also.. a second favourite birthday present.. the kids shouted the tickets to the concert for my 50th.
Around a similar timeframe.. Uriah Heep brought out the album, Look at Yourself.. and yes, the cover was a flexible mirror.
Oh and sorry about the c&p. My name isn’t BC.
roughbarked said:
and yes, kii would probably recognise the bookstore chain.
No.
kii said:
roughbarked said:
and yes, kii would probably recognise the bookstore chain.
No.
memory says something with the word Border?
I suppose this is as good a place as any to post this…
