http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/
there are many things dicussed here
let me introduce me to the number one problem that is the cause
i’m not alone – socrates/plato singled out money lenders as the number one problem for societies ills
with any luck i’ll have paid off my debt by the time the implosion happens
what they normally try to do is dangle a carrot to get people to take more debt and thus destroy them when the implosion comes
to celebrate i’m going to pay off some more of my personal debt today
maybe you should too
wookiemeister said:
http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/there are many things dicussed here
let me introduce me to the number one problem that is the cause
i’m not alone – socrates/plato singled out money lenders as the number one problem for societies ills
Pointless…
poikilotherm said:
wookiemeister said:
http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/there are many things dicussed here
let me introduce me to the number one problem that is the cause
i’m not alone – socrates/plato singled out money lenders as the number one problem for societies ills
Pointless…
$ 3,952,113,827,806 total debt
snap shot of australian debt a few moments ago
$ 531,306,643,771 national debt
$ 229,313,477,543 commonwealth gov debt
$ 1,401,259,259,932 household debt
the problem is that we don’t think that there is a probelm as long as the problem isn’t now, its human nature to ignore major problems and the further you are up the social chain the more you need to ignore it
“The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function.”
Dr. Albert A. Bartlett
http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/history
housing debt has exploded
wookiemeister said:
housing debt has exploded
Hush now. If we’re not getting rich by buying and selling houses to each other with borrowed money we’re fucked because everything else is going down the toilet.
A string of digitally reproduced digits with a symbol in front of it.
It’s not real.
Ian said:
A string of digitally reproduced digits with a symbol in front of it.It’s not real.
Like profit, really…
Sunrise this morning had a segment on healthy finances and Kochie was saying that people go on about govt debt but the bigger problem is household debt. I expected Wookie to be the special guest :)
I think once one of the producers of a top line morning show sees wookie’s work on the net he’ll get a gig.
“Coming up after the break we’ve got news and weather followed by The Wookster Report, stay tuned folks”
Divine Angel said:
Sunrise this morning had a segment on healthy finances and Kochie was saying that people go on about govt debt but the bigger problem is household debt. I expected Wookie to be the special guest :)
Hmmm, well, depends how you look at it. Kochie’s wrong IMO. They’re both equally important to resolve.
Remember folks, Government debt is our debt…eventually someone has to pay, and it’s always us!
Julia & Tony won’t be footing the bill for us!
They’ll simply implement more taxes/charges/fees, some how, some way .
Julia & Tony won’t be footing the bill for us!
they’ll have to pay it too and what household is without debt? mine is but that is beside the point.
;-)
Boris said:
Julia & Tony won’t be footing the bill for us!they’ll have to pay it too and what household is without debt? mine is but that is beside the point.
;-)
Debt is good, too much debt is bad.
Actually, Australia has one of the lowest debt percentages in the developed world, but lets not let facts get in the way of a good rant.
Boris said:
Julia & Tony won’t be footing the bill for us!they’ll have to pay it too and what household is without debt? ;-)
Moot point in the context of the big picture.
Tony A is going to be reminding everyone of his home loan.
the thing to remember is what we are getting for this debt.
Boris said:
the thing to remember is what we are getting for this debt.
Pot plants!
Pot plants!
do we get a debt clock as well?
Free with every pot plant purchase over $50
sibeen said:
Actually, Australia has one of the lowest debt percentages in the developed world, but lets not let facts get in the way of a good rant.
Hmm, yes as a comparative percentage of GDP compared to the US, Spain and Greece etc….bit, does that mean our rising government debt is a good thing.
And lets not forget the current govt. budget is counting on China continuing it’s last decade of BOOM growth.
All I’m saying is we dont need an Australian govt. wasting huge wads of cash on wastful programs and subsidies to drive short term growth while creating more debt just to help keep their arses in a leather chair and pretend that what they’re doing is sustainable.
not a Digital one, a proper one with hands that is. or maybe one of those flower ones.
Boris said:
not a Digital one, a proper one with hands that is. or maybe one of those flower ones.
A pot plant flower debt clock?
poikilotherm said:
Boris said:
not a Digital one, a proper one with hands that is. or maybe one of those flower ones.A pot plant flower debt clock?
Productivity increased 100 fold, with good hyperbowl.
poikilotherm said:
Productivity increased 100 fold, with good hyperbowl.
That’s all that anyone can ask for, really.
That’s all that anyone can ask for, really.
and a gold watch as big as a banjo.
Boris said:
That’s all that anyone can ask for, really.and a gold watch as big as a banjo.
I’d prefer one as big as a Gina.
poikilotherm said:
I’d prefer one as big as a Gina.
Yeah but instead of telling you the time, it would whinge that it’s time you stop drinking and get a real job for lower than minimum wage.
Boris said:
the thing to remember is what we are getting for this debt.
A goat and half a dozen camels.
bags the goat. i’ve given up smoking.
What I’d suggest…..
Is that the government pull their stinking noses out of every trough… let the free market get back on its feet and alllow entrepreneurs to get stuck into business, we are supposed to be living in a free market, capitalist society….but take a look around at the social welfare state that currently exists…
….the private sector is far better at “productive activity and creating jobs” than any bloody government is! Or it could be, if the governments would pull their snouts out of every trough and let them get on with it, instead of hindering them with beauracracy everywhere they turn.
chuckle
yeah, the bankers did a good job of the deregulated free market.
didn’t they?
;-)
Boris said:
yeah, the bankers did a good job of the deregulated free market.didn’t they?
;-)
LOL, and their fraudulent activity (fractional reserve banking) (printing money out of thin air) is sanctioned by governments and central banks.
For every dollar of capital that flowed into Australian banks via the resources boom, the banks could create $9 to lend out to consumers…creating a credit bubble,,,the likes of which is bringing down the Euro countries, Spain, Greece etc. the US is buckling under its debt.
Debt is weighing down the world economy, its not sustainable.
The problem is Boris….we don’t actually live in a free market economy!
I mean come on….how many subsidies do each and every government offer to just about all sectors of industry in their respective countries….and if they don’t provide subsidies, that wack on tariffs for imports…they are all over the place…free market my arse!
:-)
Aquila said:
LOL, and their fraudulent activity (fractional reserve banking) (printing money out of thin air) is sanctioned by governments and central banks.
Dear oh dear… I thought we’d seen the back of the forumites opposed to FRB. You’ll be quoting Lyndon LaRouche next.
4: a government must be in serious debt
Witty Rejoinder said:
Aquila said:LOL, and their fraudulent activity (fractional reserve banking) (printing money out of thin air) is sanctioned by governments and central banks.
Dear oh dear… I thought we’d seen the back of the forumites opposed to FRB. You’ll be quoting Lyndon LaRouche next.
Hey!
I’m still a really nice person when you get to know me
:-)
Tell me why you are not opposed to FRB?
Aquila said:
Tell me why you are not opposed to FRB?
FRB is merely the mechanism whereby money supply today is converted to money supply into the future.
All loans occur over a period of time and FRB is the method of accounting for the inter-temporal nature of credit markets.
Witty Rejoinder said:
Aquila said:
Tell me why you are not opposed to FRB?
FRB is merely the mechanism whereby money supply today is converted to money supply into the future.
Converted? Interesting choice of word, but it’s an error in thinking. I think.
Because you’re not converting one dollar now, to one dollar in the future.
You’re actually adding money to the future money supply. Money that wasn’t made from productive means, it wasn’t earnt by trade, by labor, by exchange of goods and services.
The mechanism of FRB is to CREATE $9* now, for every $1 now.
It’s $9 of credit created now for every $1 in circulation now (or actual $1 in the banks vault)
The fact that this newly CREATED $9 is paid back at a later date is irrelavent to the point.
*based on a 10% asset backing
Witty Rejoinder said:
All loans occur over a period of time and FRB is the method of accounting for the inter-temporal nature of credit markets.
Hmm, but why do you like the fractional reserve banking method? and do you actually believe the world’s financial system is healthy and functioning well because of this method?
Aquila said:
Hmm, but why do you like the fractional reserve banking method? and do you actually believe the world’s financial system is healthy and functioning well because of this method?
The current problems in international finance have little to do with FRB. There is also much evidence that expanding credit using FRB need not be inflationary.
The US property bubble was all about keeping interest rates too low for too long and had nothing to do with FRB IMO.
well that was fun. I was driving home ahead of a cold front. The sky behind me in my mirrors was getting darker and darker, and seemed catching me. I stopped for fuel about 500m from home and while I was filling up the storm caught up – absolutely bucketed down, with a little bit of small hail too.
Witty Rejoinder said:
Aquila said:Hmm, but why do you like the fractional reserve banking method? and do you actually believe the world’s financial system is healthy and functioning well because of this method?
The current problems in international finance have little to do with FRB. There is also much evidence that expanding credit using FRB need not be inflationary.
The US property bubble was all about keeping interest rates too low for too long and had nothing to do with FRB IMO.
Agreed, FRB is not the core reason for ongoing world financial problems.
Debt is, and too much credit and individuals and governments spending too much money now, that they don’t have now, hoping that they’ll have it in the future…
However, FRB as allowed rampant exponential credit growth at unprescedended levels, reaching a point where, unless asset prices keep going up continuously and more credit is feed into the system, the system implodes in on itself.
The only reason the US, the EU and the likes of Goldman Sachs corp. have not gone bankrupt and out of operation is due to central bank money printing. Feeding more money into the system.
Plus, the US keeps needing to raise it’s debt ceiling…why…because it cannot pay back the money it already owes
!
>>well that was fun. I was driving home ahead of a cold front. The sky behind me in my mirrors was getting darker and darker, and seemed catching me. I stopped for fuel about 500m from home and while I was filling up the storm caught up – absolutely bucketed down, with a little bit of small hail too.
I love storms, a good afternoon summer storm in Brisbane is one of natures gems, it cools, cleanses and rejuvinates and afterwars there is a calmness and freshness and a drowsy tinkling that lulls the distant folds.
You’re actually adding money to the future money supply.
==
yes
thats a problem becauseit means that the money becomes devalued (unless you can swamp the economy with new bodies to take loans to buy a house)
i think the problem with australia is that the housing market is a ponzi scheme rather than anything that contributes to the economy in real terms, you don’t manufacture much, you don’t research and you rarely develop.
another example about having too much debt
even the mighty mining companies aren’t immune
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-14/fortescue-enters-trading-halt/4261138?section=business
Fortescue trading halt as debt worries linger
AM By David Weber
Updated Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:20am AEST
Fortescue Metals Group (FMG) has also rushed to reassure investors that it is currently in full compliance with its debt obligations to banks.
The stock exchange asked Fortescue for a “please explain” after a dramatic drop in its share price yesterday – the price plunged 14 per cent, mostly in the last half hour of trade.
Late yesterday, Fortescue confirmed media reports that it was seeking possible relief from some of its debt commitments if those obligations were threatened by continued weakness in iron ore prices.
“Fortescue is in the process of talking to its lenders about potential waivers in the event that covenants are put under pressure by extended volatility in the iron ore market,” the company said in a statement to the share market.
“The company has a supportive banking group and this is a prudent measure that has been taken well in advance of the next reporting date and in response to market volatility.”
The next review of the miner’s debt covenants is on December 31, and FMG is attempting to cover itself ahead of time should market conditions mean it is in breach of lending agreements on that date.
Other than the negotiations with its bankers and the sliding iron ore price, FMG said it had no other explanation for the share slump.
Audio: FMG reassures stock exchange after share price plunge (AM)
Senior resource analyst with MineLife, Gavin Wendt says no-one can be sure what will happen next.
“Anybody that says they know is fibbing because it really depends on the iron ore price,” he cautioned.
“A company like Fortescue doesn’t have the luxury of being a low-cost producer. The company is in the lap of the gods. If iron ore prices go up, it’ll provide them with some breathing space, if iron ore prices stay low and continue to fall then um, you know, it could be a pretty ugly ending for Fortescue.
“A lot of it will depend on lenders and whether they’re prepared to be flexible.”
There is no shortage of pessimistic forecasts surrounding FMG – it has been that way since Andrew Forrest started the company.
It is the company’s level of debt that is causing the current concerns.
“Investors are concerned that profits are drying up much faster than anyone expected,” said mining and finance analyst Tim Treadgold.
“There is far too much debt at a time of global uncertainty, and Fortescue is expanding into a contracting market.
“It’s taken on a lot of debt at a very difficult time and it may well have trouble servicing that debt.”
Far from reassuring investors, Mr Treadgold says its recent move to sack around a thousand workers and sell its power station are signs of weakness.
“I think you have to say the company is under stress. I don’t think you can go as far to say the company is distressed, but there is obviously a lot of pressure inside the company,” he observed.
“You don’t sack 1,000 people, and sell valuable assets such as your power station, and have senior executives taking haircuts on their salary packages without there being a lot of pressure inside.”