tax them

wookiemeister said:

tax them

They are already taxed and exempted.. The manufacture and sales of weaponry is a mainstay of the US economy.. Without it, it crumbles.

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

tax them

They are already taxed and exempted.. The manufacture and sales of weaponry is a mainstay of the US economy.. Without it, it crumbles.

then don’t exempt them

you could add the tax on ammunition guns ain’t guns without ammunition or the components to make it.

that tax could be used to support the victims of gun crime

actually a tax on guns would reduce the number of guns laying around legally. with less guns around legally then the flow to criminals reduces. the tax could be added at the point of sale as well. it reduces the stockpiling of weapons, most people won’t want to have many handguns rather just a few for personal use – collectors might have to prove they are a collector but still pay tax.

i suppose the tax of guns being sold for export could be small. you could track all weapons sales through the tax on the weapon and if it didn’t get taxed then it meant it was illegal.

when they caught people carrying illegal weapons they would face a fine. criminals found carrying untaxed weapons could have their assets sold to pay the fine.

the tax would be small enough to allow people to own a gun but big enough to deter stockpiling of weapons. you could own what you wanted but you would pay tax on the gun. the fellah who killed those kids used weapons of his family??? most people would still have guns but not as many.

an assault weapon / gattling gun would incur greater taxes because they are more powerful and use more ammunition on average

oh yes

when you wage war you still have to pay the tax, this means that an unsuccessful war would be taxed out of existence. the gun tax could be used to pay for social welfare.

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

tax them

They are already taxed and exempted.. The manufacture and sales of weaponry is a mainstay of the US economy.. Without it, it crumbles.

then don’t exempt them

you could add the tax on ammunition guns ain’t guns without ammunition or the components to make it.

that tax could be used to support the victims of gun crime

actually a tax on guns would reduce the number of guns laying around legally. with less guns around legally then the flow to criminals reduces. the tax could be added at the point of sale as well. it reduces the stockpiling of weapons, most people won’t want to have many handguns rather just a few for personal use – collectors might have to prove they are a collector but still pay tax.

i suppose the tax of guns being sold for export could be small. you could track all weapons sales through the tax on the weapon and if it didn’t get taxed then it meant it was illegal.

when they caught people carrying illegal weapons they would face a fine. criminals found carrying untaxed weapons could have their assets sold to pay the fine.

the tax would be small enough to allow people to own a gun but big enough to deter stockpiling of weapons. you could own what you wanted but you would pay tax on the gun. the fellah who killed those kids used weapons of his family??? most people would still have guns but not as many.

an assault weapon / gattling gun would incur greater taxes because they are more powerful and use more ammunition on average

oh yes

when you wage war you still have to pay the tax, this means that an unsuccessful war would be taxed out of existence. the gun tax could be used to pay for social welfare.

Tobacco and alcohol are taxed within the concept that charging more will make them buy less.. Never could they have been ,ore wrong or devious.

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

They are already taxed and exempted.. The manufacture and sales of weaponry is a mainstay of the US economy.. Without it, it crumbles.

then don’t exempt them

you could add the tax on ammunition guns ain’t guns without ammunition or the components to make it.

that tax could be used to support the victims of gun crime

actually a tax on guns would reduce the number of guns laying around legally. with less guns around legally then the flow to criminals reduces. the tax could be added at the point of sale as well. it reduces the stockpiling of weapons, most people won’t want to have many handguns rather just a few for personal use – collectors might have to prove they are a collector but still pay tax.

i suppose the tax of guns being sold for export could be small. you could track all weapons sales through the tax on the weapon and if it didn’t get taxed then it meant it was illegal.

when they caught people carrying illegal weapons they would face a fine. criminals found carrying untaxed weapons could have their assets sold to pay the fine.

the tax would be small enough to allow people to own a gun but big enough to deter stockpiling of weapons. you could own what you wanted but you would pay tax on the gun. the fellah who killed those kids used weapons of his family??? most people would still have guns but not as many.

an assault weapon / gattling gun would incur greater taxes because they are more powerful and use more ammunition on average

oh yes

when you wage war you still have to pay the tax, this means that an unsuccessful war would be taxed out of existence. the gun tax could be used to pay for social welfare.

Tobacco and alcohol are taxed within the concept that charging more will make them buy less.. Never could they have been ,ore wrong or devious.

yes

but few people have huge stockpiles of cigarettes or alcohol at home thanks to the tax, they might still consume them but the tax reduces the stockpiling of these things that eventually creates the scenario where they start falling into the wrong hands

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

then don’t exempt them

you could add the tax on ammunition guns ain’t guns without ammunition or the components to make it.

that tax could be used to support the victims of gun crime

actually a tax on guns would reduce the number of guns laying around legally. with less guns around legally then the flow to criminals reduces. the tax could be added at the point of sale as well. it reduces the stockpiling of weapons, most people won’t want to have many handguns rather just a few for personal use – collectors might have to prove they are a collector but still pay tax.

i suppose the tax of guns being sold for export could be small. you could track all weapons sales through the tax on the weapon and if it didn’t get taxed then it meant it was illegal.

when they caught people carrying illegal weapons they would face a fine. criminals found carrying untaxed weapons could have their assets sold to pay the fine.

the tax would be small enough to allow people to own a gun but big enough to deter stockpiling of weapons. you could own what you wanted but you would pay tax on the gun. the fellah who killed those kids used weapons of his family??? most people would still have guns but not as many.

an assault weapon / gattling gun would incur greater taxes because they are more powerful and use more ammunition on average

oh yes

when you wage war you still have to pay the tax, this means that an unsuccessful war would be taxed out of existence. the gun tax could be used to pay for social welfare.

Tobacco and alcohol are taxed within the concept that charging more will make them buy less.. Never could they have been ,ore wrong or devious.

yes

but few people have huge stockpiles of cigarettes or alcohol at home thanks to the tax, they might still consume them but the tax reduces the stockpiling of these things that eventually creates the scenario where they start falling into the wrong hands

You do have a point but I still remember my parents, dad was an engineer in the army but before that he supported his family through the first war at the age of 12 and the subsequent depression in turn. In my childhood I watched my parents stock up on cartons of cigarettes before the announcement of each annual budget.

During the depression my mother traded tobacco coupons for food coupons and deliberately lined up in tobacco coupon queues for the purpose.

My father pinched all his cigarrettes off in his fingers and stored the butts in his coal pocket for re-rolling. In the depression one could trade in bumpers picked up off the streets.

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

Tobacco and alcohol are taxed within the concept that charging more will make them buy less.. Never could they have been ,ore wrong or devious.

yes

but few people have huge stockpiles of cigarettes or alcohol at home thanks to the tax, they might still consume them but the tax reduces the stockpiling of these things that eventually creates the scenario where they start falling into the wrong hands

You do have a point but I still remember my parents, dad was an engineer in the army but before that he supported his family through the first war at the age of 12 and the subsequent depression in turn. In my childhood I watched my parents stock up on cartons of cigarettes before the announcement of each annual budget.

i doubt if many working class people could stock up on cigarettes now, they would too expensive

its like pokies if you want to stop the stockpiling effect of pokies (the massive rooms of them) just tax them

the tax does reduce the habit – eventually you manage your habit or just stop

hmm too many r’s in cigarettes.

Neither my mother nor my father started smoking before the second war.

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

yes

but few people have huge stockpiles of cigarettes or alcohol at home thanks to the tax, they might still consume them but the tax reduces the stockpiling of these things that eventually creates the scenario where they start falling into the wrong hands

You do have a point but I still remember my parents, dad was an engineer in the army but before that he supported his family through the first war at the age of 12 and the subsequent depression in turn. In my childhood I watched my parents stock up on cartons of cigarettes before the announcement of each annual budget.

i doubt if many working class people could stock up on cigarettes now, they would too expensive

its like pokies if you want to stop the stockpiling effect of pokies (the massive rooms of them) just tax them

the tax does reduce the habit – eventually you manage your habit or just stop

It is not quite so easy to see addiction in such a simple light.

ok lets put it this way

i’ve heard the gunman used his mums guns to shoot people, using 10 rounds or more for each victim

do you think mum would have any more than one gun if she was taxed on each gun?

how much ammunition do you think mum would have laying around if the ammo was taxed?

perhaps one or two clips

the gunman would be limited to the killing because he would have already used ammo to kill his mum before getting to the school

hate to be seen as a constant Negative Nelly to all your bright ideas Wookie, but I see a major flaw in your plan. A hole so big you could drive a carriage through it.

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

You do have a point but I still remember my parents, dad was an engineer in the army but before that he supported his family through the first war at the age of 12 and the subsequent depression in turn. In my childhood I watched my parents stock up on cartons of cigarettes before the announcement of each annual budget.

i doubt if many working class people could stock up on cigarettes now, they would too expensive

its like pokies if you want to stop the stockpiling effect of pokies (the massive rooms of them) just tax them

the tax does reduce the habit – eventually you manage your habit or just stop

It is not quite so easy to see addiction in such a simple light.

once you reframe addiction to financial necessity the numbers start to fall into place – one way or the other.

tax the guns and the problem starts to reduce because you reduce the stockpiling situation

by reducing the guns and ammo laying around at home it reduces the damage that can be done in a rampage

party_pants said:

hate to be seen as a constant Negative Nelly to all your bright ideas Wookie, but I see a major flaw in your plan. A hole so big you could drive a carriage through it.

the constitution might be interpreted to say everyone shall bear arms – it doesn’t say that you can’t tax them

party_pants said:

hate to be seen as a constant Negative Nelly to all your bright ideas Wookie, but I see a major flaw in your plan. A hole so big you could drive a carriage through it.

I was taking a team of oxen and he wasn’t buying it.. perhaps I should swear like a bullocky?

wookiemeister said:

party_pants said:

hate to be seen as a constant Negative Nelly to all your bright ideas Wookie, but I see a major flaw in your plan. A hole so big you could drive a carriage through it.

the constitution might be interpreted to say everyone shall bear arms – it doesn’t say that you can’t tax them

i mean come on

they are taxing carbon dioxide for christ sake

i doubt if they’ll find many barriers to taxing guns

wookiemeister said:

party_pants said:

hate to be seen as a constant Negative Nelly to all your bright ideas Wookie, but I see a major flaw in your plan. A hole so big you could drive a carriage through it.

the constitution might be interpreted to say everyone shall bear arms – it doesn’t say that you can’t tax them

the bear arms things was rescinded by JWH.. you don’t recall the flak jacket?

if panty pants had any rebuttal he would have laid it on the table

he’s bluffing

wookiemeister said:

wookiemeister said:

party_pants said:

hate to be seen as a constant Negative Nelly to all your bright ideas Wookie, but I see a major flaw in your plan. A hole so big you could drive a carriage through it.

the constitution might be interpreted to say everyone shall bear arms – it doesn’t say that you can’t tax them

i mean come on

they are taxing carbon dioxide for christ sake

i doubt if they’ll find many barriers to taxing guns

I don’t recall you being an ardent supporter of the carbon tax as being effective?

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

wookiemeister said:

the constitution might be interpreted to say everyone shall bear arms – it doesn’t say that you can’t tax them

i mean come on

they are taxing carbon dioxide for christ sake

i doubt if they’ll find many barriers to taxing guns

I don’t recall you being an ardent supporter of the carbon tax as being effective?

no it won’t be because non of the money collected will ever be used to solve the problem

if they used all the carbon tax to simply buy product i’d have NO problem

instead they will collect that money and send it overseas to prop up populations that have outstripped their own resources and buy potplants

the constitution might be interpreted to say everyone shall bear arms –
——————————-
What, even Thalidomide children???

if they used carbon tax to buy solar panels/ windturbines/ other renewable energy sources it would reduce the problem

Stealth said:

the constitution might be interpreted to say everyone shall bear arms –
——————————-
What, even Thalidomide children???

you’d still be able to use your feet

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

i mean come on

they are taxing carbon dioxide for christ sake

i doubt if they’ll find many barriers to taxing guns

I don’t recall you being an ardent supporter of the carbon tax as being effective?

no it won’t be because non of the money collected will ever be used to solve the problem

if they used all the carbon tax to simply buy product i’d have NO problem

instead they will collect that money and send it overseas to prop up populations that have outstripped their own resources and buy potplants

and how is this different to alcohol and tobacco taxes?

who really is the Sherriff of Nottingham?

if they used carbon tax to buy solar panels/ windturbines/ other renewable energy sources it would reduce the problem
———————
But you said they would buy potplants. That will reduce the CO2 problem.

wookiemeister said:

Stealth said:

the constitution might be interpreted to say everyone shall bear arms –
——————————-
What, even Thalidomide children???

you’d still be able to use your feet

to run with, surely?

Stealth said:

if they used carbon tax to buy solar panels/ windturbines/ other renewable energy sources it would reduce the problem
———————
But you said they would buy potplants. That will reduce the CO2 problem.

only from the hot air being generated in the offices

Stealth said:

if they used carbon tax to buy solar panels/ windturbines/ other renewable energy sources it would reduce the problem
———————
But you said they would buy potplants. That will reduce the CO2 problem.

Not when they put them through the bong.

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

I don’t recall you being an ardent supporter of the carbon tax as being effective?

no it won’t be because non of the money collected will ever be used to solve the problem

if they used all the carbon tax to simply buy product i’d have NO problem

instead they will collect that money and send it overseas to prop up populations that have outstripped their own resources and buy potplants

and how is this different to alcohol and tobacco taxes?

who really is the Sherriff of Nottingham?

i’d say that the high taxes were to pay for the crusades

roughbarked said:

Stealth said:

if they used carbon tax to buy solar panels/ windturbines/ other renewable energy sources it would reduce the problem
———————
But you said they would buy potplants. That will reduce the CO2 problem.

Not when they put them through the bong.

aka – the ocean

wookiemeister said:

if panty pants had any rebuttal he would have laid it on the table

he’s bluffing

I’m watching TV.

It’s not that hard, just think it through Wookie.

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

no it won’t be because non of the money collected will ever be used to solve the problem

if they used all the carbon tax to simply buy product i’d have NO problem

instead they will collect that money and send it overseas to prop up populations that have outstripped their own resources and buy potplants

and how is this different to alcohol and tobacco taxes?

who really is the Sherriff of Nottingham?

i’d say that the high taxes were to pay for the crusades

and for the crusades, they used weapons?

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

if panty pants had any rebuttal he would have laid it on the table

he’s bluffing

I’m watching TV.

It’s not that hard, just think it through Wookie.

ok

i will watch tv as well

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

if panty pants had any rebuttal he would have laid it on the table

he’s bluffing

I’m watching TV.

It’s not that hard, just think it through Wookie.

Like I said, would he notice if I cussed like a bullocky?

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

and how is this different to alcohol and tobacco taxes?

who really is the Sherriff of Nottingham?

i’d say that the high taxes were to pay for the crusades

and for the crusades, they used weapons?

people don’t kill the mohammedans

sword, arrows, axes and boiling oil kills mohammedans

wookiemeister said:

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

if panty pants had any rebuttal he would have laid it on the table

he’s bluffing

I’m watching TV.

It’s not that hard, just think it through Wookie.

ok

i will watch tv as well

turn on, tune in and drop out..

the politics of exctasy.. Prof Timothy Leary.

i wonder how long the crusades would have lasted if they taxed weapons and put it into social welfare

wookielations chapter 5 v6

and verily the people cried out “wookiemeister, how shall we bring about gun control” and a voice from heaven said “wookiemeister commands you to tax all guns, great and small” and the people were pleased

wookiemeister said:

i wonder how long the crusades would have lasted if they taxed weapons and put it into social welfare

I take it you don’t watch abc TV Sunday nights of late.. re: Pillars of the earth?

wookiemeister said:

wookielations chapter 5 v6

and verily the people cried out “wookiemeister, how shall we bring about gun control” and a voice from heaven said “wookiemeister commands you to tax all guns, great and small” and the people were pleased

wookielations chapter 5 v38

if at first you do not undertsand the problem , tax the problem

wookiemeister said:

wookielations chapter 5 v6

and verily the people cried out “wookiemeister, how shall we bring about gun control” and a voice from heaven said “wookiemeister commands you to tax all guns, great and small” and the people were pleased

and henceforth a bounty was put on all animals heads.

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

wookielations chapter 5 v6

and verily the people cried out “wookiemeister, how shall we bring about gun control” and a voice from heaven said “wookiemeister commands you to tax all guns, great and small” and the people were pleased

and henceforth a bounty was put on all animals heads.

novelty animal heads

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

wookielations chapter 5 v6

and verily the people cried out “wookiemeister, how shall we bring about gun control” and a voice from heaven said “wookiemeister commands you to tax all guns, great and small” and the people were pleased

and henceforth a bounty was put on all animals heads.

novelty animal heads

wookiemeister is fickle with his blessings

wookiemeister said:

wookielations chapter 5 v6

and verily the people cried out “wookiemeister, how shall we bring about gun control” and a voice from heaven said “wookiemeister commands you to tax all guns, great and small” and the people were pleased

The people were pleased, but seriously misguided, as is common with many religious texts.

now i’ve solved the gun control thing in america

does anyone know of a decent kinfe sharpner?

the kitchen knife blades have taken that jagged look and have been blunted by the supposed kitchen sharpners you can buy

i was thinking of buying an oil stone and sharpening the kitchen knives that way – i don’t like the metal rod knife sharpner because of the ghastly sound

Stealth said:

wookiemeister said:

wookielations chapter 5 v6

and verily the people cried out “wookiemeister, how shall we bring about gun control” and a voice from heaven said “wookiemeister commands you to tax all guns, great and small” and the people were pleased

The people were pleased, but seriously misguided, as is common with many religious texts.

a curse on your infidel’s cheesy codpiece

wookiemeister said:

now i’ve solved the gun control thing in america

does anyone know of a decent kinfe sharpner?

the kitchen knife blades have taken that jagged look and have been blunted by the supposed kitchen sharpners you can buy

i was thinking of buying an oil stone and sharpening the kitchen knives that way – i don’t like the metal rod knife sharpner because of the ghastly sound

more domestic murders are committed by serrated kitchen knives than guns..

look wookie.. you need to learn the physics of knife blades.. to be able to keep them sharp. Make a pyramid and align it correctly.. place the knife blade inside the pryamid.. ;) or.. use a chainsaw file on the serrated angle and wipt the flat side on a steel.

wookiemeister said:

wookielations chapter 5 v6

and verily the people cried out “wookiemeister, how shall we bring about gun control” and a voice from heaven said “wookiemeister commands you to tax all guns, great and small” and the people were pleased

So they conducted a census amongst themselves to count the guns, and behold, none professed to own a gun. And they proclaimed th problem solved since there were officially no guns. And then presently, when another mass shooting happened they were sore amazed, for since none own a gun they knew not whence had come the latest weapon. And they did blame Mexicans and set fire upon their houses.

wookiemeister said:

Stealth said:

wookiemeister said:

wookielations chapter 5 v6

and verily the people cried out “wookiemeister, how shall we bring about gun control” and a voice from heaven said “wookiemeister commands you to tax all guns, great and small” and the people were pleased

The people were pleased, but seriously misguided, as is common with many religious texts.

a curse on your infidel’s cheesy codpiece

as long as you threaten not the severance of that within, your curses are but words.

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

wookielations chapter 5 v6

and verily the people cried out “wookiemeister, how shall we bring about gun control” and a voice from heaven said “wookiemeister commands you to tax all guns, great and small” and the people were pleased

So they conducted a census amongst themselves to count the guns, and behold, none professed to own a gun. And they proclaimed th problem solved since there were officially no guns. And then presently, when another mass shooting happened they were sore amazed, for since none own a gun they knew not whence had come the latest weapon. And they did blame Mexicans and set fire upon their houses.

marking every house with a new born son with a crucifix of blood.

The thing is, obviously that one can own a gun and never put a bullet in it.. So it is not the fault of the gun nor of gun ownership. Of course questions may be asked as to why anyone needs or wants to own a gun and there are legitimate reasons such as feral pest control on private property and or gun club usage or indeed defending your own castle (as was in the Magna Carta), since superceded by the fact that this is supposed to be the job of the police and that one should not have to take the law into one’s own hands).

In Australia, we have always had strict gun control and owning assault rifles has always been against the law.. In fact an air rifle needs a license and a slingshot is illegal. A bow and arrow requires you to belong to an archery club and as with all licensing you are subject to spot checks to maintain efficient and safe ownership of weapons that may kill. Not that this stops the majority of domestic murder from being caused by a house brick or a kitchen knife.

If you apply for a gun license here, you need to have a clean record with the police and be of sane demeanour. If you have a gun license or indeed if you don’t and are convicted of any domestic violence(which may be as little as putting your hand up to defend yourself against your partner), you will be unable to hold a gun license for a period of 12 years after which you will be required to undergo tests on your capability of holding a weapon safely with the end result being most likely that you will never be able to apply for a gun license again. This by the way does not guarantee that someone will obtain an unlicensed weapon illegally and shoot people with it.. As despite all of the above restrictions, the criminals still manage to have guns and perform murder with them.

The big problem with America is that quite a large part of the US economy is generated through manufacture and sales of weapons of all kinds. Take it away and the economy would be on the rocks.

The gun lobby in Australia is also quite powerful politically speaking. So much so that The shooters party can actually determine election results and has done so in past elections to the point of causing a government to be ousted. Basically it is because that since the Magna Carta and probably beyond that it has always been a basic human right to possess a weapon(ostensibly for personal protection)..

As recent as early 2000 due to the Port Arthur Massacre in Tasmania in 1996, John Howard’s government at the time actually had to rescind the part of the Magna Carta which allowed the right to bear arms to protect your local community and castle, so that he could ban semi-automatic rifles and bring in new restrictions allowing the ownership and use of weapons only in gun clubs or on private property for feral pest control.. He actually wore a flak jacket when he addressed the shooters party members to announce the new laws.

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

now i’ve solved the gun control thing in america

does anyone know of a decent kinfe sharpner?

the kitchen knife blades have taken that jagged look and have been blunted by the supposed kitchen sharpners you can buy

i was thinking of buying an oil stone and sharpening the kitchen knives that way – i don’t like the metal rod knife sharpner because of the ghastly sound

more domestic murders are committed by serrated kitchen knives than guns..

look wookie.. you need to learn the physics of knife blades.. to be able to keep them sharp. Make a pyramid and align it correctly.. place the knife blade inside the pryamid.. ;) or.. use a chainsaw file on the serrated angle and wipt the flat side on a steel.

i use the cheops pyramid design for my knives atm

i’ve never believed the khufu pyramid to sharpen knives was anything more than a scam

roughbarked said:

The big problem with America is that quite a large part of the US economy is generated through manufacture and sales of weapons of all kinds. Take it away and the economy would be on the rocks.

This isn’t true.

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

now i’ve solved the gun control thing in america

does anyone know of a decent kinfe sharpner?

the kitchen knife blades have taken that jagged look and have been blunted by the supposed kitchen sharpners you can buy

i was thinking of buying an oil stone and sharpening the kitchen knives that way – i don’t like the metal rod knife sharpner because of the ghastly sound

more domestic murders are committed by serrated kitchen knives than guns..

look wookie.. you need to learn the physics of knife blades.. to be able to keep them sharp. Make a pyramid and align it correctly.. place the knife blade inside the pryamid.. ;) or.. use a chainsaw file on the serrated angle and wipt the flat side on a steel.

i use the cheops pyramid design for my knives atm

i’ve never believed the khufu pyramid to sharpen knives was anything more than a scam

so you see the king hit is always noticed more than the belly blow.

party_pants said:

wookiemeister said:

wookielations chapter 5 v6

and verily the people cried out “wookiemeister, how shall we bring about gun control” and a voice from heaven said “wookiemeister commands you to tax all guns, great and small” and the people were pleased

So they conducted a census amongst themselves to count the guns, and behold, none professed to own a gun. And they proclaimed th problem solved since there were officially no guns. And then presently, when another mass shooting happened they were sore amazed, for since none own a gun they knew not whence had come the latest weapon. And they did blame Mexicans and set fire upon their houses.

and lo, it came to pass that they needed to buy the blessed ammunition and the priest asked them to show their taxes that they had paid and they said we have none and they went home

John Howard made a speech a year or tow ago at some Republican or right wing dinner. A brief Q & A session followe, where he was asked what were his greatest achievements in office. He listed the gun control reforms near the top of the list. He was booed and hekled by the crowd, who previously applauded him.

Witty Rejoinder said:

roughbarked said:

The big problem with America is that quite a large part of the US economy is generated through manufacture and sales of weapons of all kinds. Take it away and the economy would be on the rocks.

This isn’t true.

Isn’t it?

refs please.

Witty Rejoinder said:

roughbarked said:

The big problem with America is that quite a large part of the US economy is generated through manufacture and sales of weapons of all kinds. Take it away and the economy would be on the rocks.

This isn’t true.

just go with it witty

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

roughbarked said:

more domestic murders are committed by serrated kitchen knives than guns.. look wookie.. you need to learn the physics of knife blades.. to be able to keep them sharp. Make a pyramid and align it correctly.. place the knife blade inside the pryamid.. ;) or.. use a chainsaw file on the serrated angle and wipt the flat side on a steel.

i use the cheops pyramid design for my knives atm

i’ve never believed the khufu pyramid to sharpen knives was anything more than a scam

so you see the king hit is always noticed more than the belly blow.

ahh the old switcheroo from a blow from above to the belly

roughbarked said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

roughbarked said:

The big problem with America is that quite a large part of the US economy is generated through manufacture and sales of weapons of all kinds. Take it away and the economy would be on the rocks.

This isn’t true.

Isn’t it?

refs please.

Isn’t the onus on you to prove it is true? I doubt the manufacture of firearms exceeds 1% of the US economy.

roughbarked said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

roughbarked said:

The big problem with America is that quite a large part of the US economy is generated through manufacture and sales of weapons of all kinds. Take it away and the economy would be on the rocks.

This isn’t true.

Isn’t it?

refs please.

Maybe we need to define “quite a large part “ before going any further.

Witty Rejoinder said:

roughbarked said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

This isn’t true.

Isn’t it?

refs please.

Isn’t the onus on you to prove it is true? I doubt the manufacture of firearms exceeds 1% of the US economy.

firearms?

I said something about all manner of weaponry? ie: landing craft for tanks etc?

Stealth said:

roughbarked said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

This isn’t true.

Isn’t it?

refs please.

Maybe we need to define “quite a large part “ before going any further.

One word humvee// ask any American what it constitutes in imagery.

Tis a strange thing, if allowed I would own a personal weapon but glad I live in a country where lazy gits like me find it too much of pain in the arse to get one. I handed mine in at the buy back. I liked that Simpsons thing when Homer was trying to buy a weapon he was told there was a waiting period, he said, “but I am angry now”.

OTOH I understand a bit the American psyche of consenting to be governed and owning weapons against the tyranny of kings. Or something like that.

all things bright and wookiefull
all taxes great and small
all things painted white and wonderfull
oh wookie thought them all

he taxed the meek and mindfull
he taxed them good and hard
they liked to eat fish and chips
so then he taxed their lard

all things bright and wookiefull
all taxes painful
all things wanted for xmas
oh wookie taxed them all

he taxed the orphans and the potplants
he taxed all things with cred
he taxed the baby bonus
he taxed their tiny beds

Witty Rejoinder said:

Isn’t the onus on you to prove it is true? I doubt the manufacture of firearms exceeds 1% of the US economy.

I recall reading somewhere that the US military is about 5% of GDP. It would be hard to imagine civilian small arms amounting to more than 1%.

Skunkworks said:

Tis a strange thing, if allowed I would own a personal weapon but glad I live in a country where lazy gits like me find it too much of pain in the arse to get one. I handed mine in at the buy back. I liked that Simpsons thing when Homer was trying to buy a weapon he was told there was a waiting period, he said, “but I am angry now”.

OTOH I understand a bit the American psyche of consenting to be governed and owning weapons against the tyranny of kings. Or something like that.

for the fist time.. something quoted from Homer Simpson.. got an involuntary laugh from me.

Not only does the manufacture and sale of firearms and hunting supplies create good jobs in the United States but the industry also contributes to the economy as a whole. In fact, in 2012 the firearms and ammunition industry was responsible for as much as $31.84 billion in total economic activity in the country.

http://nssf.org/impact/

US GDP 2011 = 15.094 trillion.

https://www.google.com.au/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&idim=country:USA&dl=en&hl=en&q=us%20gdp

These pages show that the US gun industry is less than a fifth of one percent of the overall economy.

roughbarked said:

ie: landing craft for tanks etc?

Whilst you are shifting goal posts don’t forget NORAD and ICBMs.

party_pants said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Isn’t the onus on you to prove it is true? I doubt the manufacture of firearms exceeds 1% of the US economy.

I recall reading somewhere that the US military is about 5% of GDP. It would be hard to imagine civilian small arms amounting to more than 1%.

and the Aussies were improving their economy by what?.. 2% and the treasury looks worried?

Witty Rejoinder said:

Not only does the manufacture and sale of firearms and hunting supplies create good jobs in the United States but the industry also contributes to the economy as a whole. In fact, in 2012 the firearms and ammunition industry was responsible for as much as $31.84 billion in total economic activity in the country.

http://nssf.org/impact/

US GDP 2011 = 15.094 trillion.

https://www.google.com.au/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&idim=country:USA&dl=en&hl=en&q=us%20gdp

These pages show that the US gun industry is less than a fifth of one percent of the overall economy.

geez even a small tax on guns could fund the hospital system

Witty Rejoinder said:

Not only does the manufacture and sale of firearms and hunting supplies create good jobs in the United States but the industry also contributes to the economy as a whole. In fact, in 2012 the firearms and ammunition industry was responsible for as much as $31.84 billion in total economic activity in the country.

http://nssf.org/impact/

US GDP 2011 = 15.094 trillion.

https://www.google.com.au/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&idim=country:USA&dl=en&hl=en&q=us%20gdp

These pages show that the US gun industry is less than a fifth of one percent of the overall economy.

geez even a small tax on guns could fund the hospital system

Skunkworks said:

roughbarked said:

ie: landing craft for tanks etc?

Whilst you are shifting goal posts don’t forget NORAD and ICBMs.

Not really shifting goalposts.. I did say all kinds of weaponry.. ie.. why aren’t you calculating the defense budget and the occupation budgets?

wookiemeister said:

geez even a small tax on guns could fund the hospital system

no argument.

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Isn’t the onus on you to prove it is true? I doubt the manufacture of firearms exceeds 1% of the US economy.

I recall reading somewhere that the US military is about 5% of GDP. It would be hard to imagine civilian small arms amounting to more than 1%.

and the Aussies were improving their economy by what?.. 2% and the treasury looks worried?

I think it would be well under 1%.

1% represents a pie in the sky upper limit scenario.

wookiemeister said:

geez even a small tax on guns could fund the hospital system

How do you expect the taxation of a miniscule part the economy to pay for 15% of the economy?

it would stop the unnecessary stockpiling in the miltary

all those guns and ammo laying around naturally provokes conflict

Witty Rejoinder said:

wookiemeister said:

geez even a small tax on guns could fund the hospital system

How do you expect the taxation of a miniscule part the economy to pay for 15% of the economy?

its better than NOTHING

Witty Rejoinder said:

wookiemeister said:

geez even a small tax on guns could fund the hospital system

How do you expect the taxation of a miniscule part the economy to pay for 15% of the economy?

by having less shootings? ;)

the americans are boned when it comes to their medical system

doctors could be brought into a publicly funded health system

the poor would just go the public doctors

roughbarked said:

Not really shifting goalposts.. I did say all kinds of weaponry.. ie.. why aren’t you calculating the defense budget and the occupation budgets?

Cos it s not relevant? You said something silly and now trying to back pedal and include the defence budget. That is shifting goal posts.

My point basically is that the USA relies on the muscle power of weaponry and all that makes it have world dominance. It is easy to imagine that it could even be conspiritionationally (sic) responsible for creating conflict to stabilise economy.

Skunkworks said:

roughbarked said:

Not really shifting goalposts.. I did say all kinds of weaponry.. ie.. why aren’t you calculating the defense budget and the occupation budgets?

Cos it s not relevant? You said something silly and now trying to back pedal and include the defence budget. That is shifting goal posts.

Nah

in battle, you’d fail.

Witty Rejoinder said:

Not only does the manufacture and sale of firearms and hunting supplies create good jobs in the United States but the industry also contributes to the economy as a whole. In fact, in 2012 the firearms and ammunition industry was responsible for as much as $31.84 billion in total economic activity in the country.

http://nssf.org/impact/

US GDP 2011 = 15.094 trillion.

https://www.google.com.au/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&idim=country:USA&dl=en&hl=en&q=us%20gdp

These pages show that the US gun industry is less than a fifth of one percent of the overall economy.

Cheers Witty.

Well less than 1% of GDP

go for the throat.

party_pants said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Not only does the manufacture and sale of firearms and hunting supplies create good jobs in the United States but the industry also contributes to the economy as a whole. In fact, in 2012 the firearms and ammunition industry was responsible for as much as $31.84 billion in total economic activity in the country.

http://nssf.org/impact/

US GDP 2011 = 15.094 trillion.

https://www.google.com.au/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&idim=country:USA&dl=en&hl=en&q=us%20gdp

These pages show that the US gun industry is less than a fifth of one percent of the overall economy.

Cheers Witty.

Well less than 1% of GDP

It matters little

the demeanour of the populace and of the poilticians is to go with the flow.

roughbarked said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

wookiemeister said:

geez even a small tax on guns could fund the hospital system

How do you expect the taxation of a miniscule part the economy to pay for 15% of the economy?

Easy, you just need to set the tax at 1500%.

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Not only does the manufacture and sale of firearms and hunting supplies create good jobs in the United States but the industry also contributes to the economy as a whole. In fact, in 2012 the firearms and ammunition industry was responsible for as much as $31.84 billion in total economic activity in the country.

http://nssf.org/impact/

US GDP 2011 = 15.094 trillion.

https://www.google.com.au/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&idim=country:USA&dl=en&hl=en&q=us%20gdp

These pages show that the US gun industry is less than a fifth of one percent of the overall economy.

Cheers Witty.

Well less than 1% of GDP

It matters little

the demeanour of the populace and of the poilticians is to go with the flow.

what everyone forgets is that one fifth of the US economy, belongs to China.

not trying to shift goal posts.. just widening perspective.

Stealth said:

roughbarked said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

wookiemeister said:

geez even a small tax on guns could fund the hospital system

How do you expect the taxation of a miniscule part the economy to pay for 15% of the economy?

Easy, you just need to set the tax at 1500%.

counted in civilian deaths at the hand of the military drones?

Roughy if you had of stopped and thought about it you might have said something like the NRA and similar associations contribute huge amounts of money to political parties, they can also organise and motivate voters, important in a system where voting is voluntary, instead you said something silly and rather than calling mea culpa you starting banging on about Defence budgets. Shifting goalposts.

Skunkworks said:

Roughy if you had of stopped and thought about it you might have said something like the NRA and similar associations contribute huge amounts of money to political parties, they can also organise and motivate voters, important in a system where voting is voluntary, instead you said something silly and rather than calling mea culpa you starting banging on about Defence budgets. Shifting goalposts.

I did both.. surely there is room for it?

roughbarked said:

Skunkworks said:

Roughy if you had of stopped and thought about it you might have said something like the NRA and similar associations contribute huge amounts of money to political parties, they can also organise and motivate voters, important in a system where voting is voluntary, instead you said something silly and rather than calling mea culpa you starting banging on about Defence budgets. Shifting goalposts.

I did both.. surely there is room for it?

counting the bodies.. and trying to fit the budget

if anything, I live up to my name.. rough bark is persistent.

I’m as I’ve said, a capable shooter.. who rarely ever puts a bullet in a gun.. though I hate killing.. a feral cat may as Homer put it.. get me angry enough to waste a bullet on flesh and pollute the atmosphere with cordite. I’ve looked at the economics of this attitude of violence and see it wherever even words are placed. bullyism is down to the grass roots.. and guns enforce this.

Stealth said:

roughbarked said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

wookiemeister said:

geez even a small tax on guns could fund the hospital system

How do you expect the taxation of a miniscule part the economy to pay for 15% of the economy?

Easy, you just need to set the tax at 1500%.

i never said all of the hospital system

wookiemeister said:

Stealth said:

roughbarked said:

How do you expect the taxation of a miniscule part the economy to pay for 15% of the economy?

Easy, you just need to set the tax at 1500%.

i never said all of the hospital system

now who is shifting goal posts?

anyway.. i see not a lot of counters to moving the viewfinder around the global effect of US spending on arms.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20736167

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

Stealth said:

Easy, you just need to set the tax at 1500%.

i never said all of the hospital system

now who is shifting goal posts?

no shifting goal posts

all i’m doing is pointing out what i have already stated

i think the problem here is that no one wants to be wrong

Well I’ve just been browsing Rapture Ready, and apparently guns don’t kill people.

Satan kills people, and taking prayer out of schools kills people, and teaching evolution kills people.

Skeptic Pete said:

Well I’ve just been browsing Rapture Ready, and apparently guns don’t kill people.

Satan kills people, and taking prayer out of schools kills people, and teaching evolution kills people.

Brilliant, I can keep my AR16 rifle then, for, you know, today’s super animal, like the flying squirrel and electric eeeel.

Skeptic Pete said:

Well I’ve just been browsing Rapture Ready, and apparently guns don’t kill people.

Satan kills people, and taking prayer out of schools kills people, and teaching evolution kills people.

There is so much vile crap spewing out from so-called religious people along these lines. It has caused me a lot of grief.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3FeaSomJhQ

A side issue: Anonymous and their message to WBC.

kii said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3FeaSomJhQ

A side issue: Anonymous and their message to WBC.

Stephen Hawking is a member?!?

Mr buffy has a couple of suggestions. So the American constitution includes the right to bear arms. Perhaps it means those arms available at the time of writing, as it would be impossible for the people of the time to conceive of assault rifles and such like.

On the other hand, does the right to bear arms include the right to ammunition? Or is it just the gun?

(Mr buffy has a weird mind)

I like mr buffy’s mind :)

buffy said:

Mr buffy has a couple of suggestions. So the American constitution includes the right to bear arms. Perhaps it means those arms available at the time of writing, as it would be impossible for the people of the time to conceive of assault rifles and such like.

On the other hand, does the right to bear arms include the right to ammunition? Or is it just the gun?

(Mr buffy has a weird mind)

At the time it was framed it was intended that an armed population could defend against the tyranny of Kings having just declared Independence, or even their own government should it turn tyrannical (after all, the majority of the population at the time was born in, or very recently descended from England so they could conceive of an end run around the constitution from loyalists, hence the consent to be governed. The war itself was a very close run thing.

So yes, it would have included the assault weapons of the time, after all they could conceive they would be used against organised armies. But against that, it was not so much intended that every man, dog and kiddie be armed, but a well regulated militia in order to protect the constitution and American independence.

Yes, the intention seems to have been somewhat lost along the way.

But watching Pillars of the Earth (and yes, I know it’s a dramatization of a historical novel), times were incredibly violent in earlier eras.

buffy said:

Yes, the intention seems to have been somewhat lost along the way.

But watching Pillars of the Earth (and yes, I know it’s a dramatization of a historical novel), times were incredibly violent in earlier eras.

England had a very violent early history, always seemed to be a blue somewhere.

jjjust moi said:

England had a very violent early history, always seemed to be a blue somewhere.

Well , the same could be said for just about anywhere.

buffy said:

Yes, the intention seems to have been somewhat lost along the way.

But watching Pillars of the Earth (and yes, I know it’s a dramatization of a historical novel), times were incredibly violent in earlier eras.

No spoilers! I haven’t watched it yet.

>>No spoilers! I haven’t watched it yet.<<

Well get a move on then! I’ll spoil one thing for you though…..finally worked out where we have seen the actor playing Tom Builder. Did you watch “Zen”? British cop series but set in Rome.

The plot is reasonably complex, particularly if, like me, you’ve never bothered to commit English history to memory.

https://prospect.org/article/ten-arguments-gun-advocates-make-and-why-theyre-wrong

AussieDJ said:

https://prospect.org/article/ten-arguments-gun-advocates-make-and-why-theyre-wrong

That article was ok till t got to this, “ Make me take my shoes off before getting on a plane, just because some idiot tried to blow up his sneakers?”. He was actually trying to blow up plane, he used his sneakers as the means to smuggle the explosives.

Skunkworks said:

AussieDJ said:

https://prospect.org/article/ten-arguments-gun-advocates-make-and-why-theyre-wrong

That article was ok till t got to this, “ Make me take my shoes off before getting on a plane, just because some idiot tried to blow up his sneakers?”. He was actually trying to blow up plane, he used his sneakers as the means to smuggle the explosives.

yep. That’s a better description.

anyone wanting to bring down an aircraft would just shoot the thing as it was taking off fully laden with fuel with a powerful rifle

trying to smuggle bombs past security is for amateurs

i see no one has come up with the wookiemeister gun control solution in america

it will take a few years i suppose

wookiemeister said:

i see no one has come up with the wookiemeister gun control solution in america

it will take a few years i suppose

It is likely to come up around the true end of the Mayan long count calendar.

Perhaps they should go 180 degrees ‘tother way? seem to remember a news article that the local Mayor in some little hick town in the USA making it compulsory for all citizens to have to wear a hand gun clearly visible when out in public, and the crime rate dropped to zero.

bob(from black rock) said:

Perhaps they should go 180 degrees ‘tother way? seem to remember a news article that the local Mayor in some little hick town in the USA making it compulsory for all citizens to have to wear a hand gun clearly visible when out in public, and the crime rate dropped to zero.

http://www.abcforums.com/showthread.php?3620-Mental-Health-Drugs&p=94363&viewfull=1#post94363

bob(from black rock) said:

Perhaps they should go 180 degrees ‘tother way? seem to remember a news article that the local Mayor in some little hick town in the USA making it compulsory for all citizens to have to wear a hand gun clearly visible when out in public, and the crime rate dropped to zero.

“Hey chief, there’s been another self-defence shooting.”
“Dagnabbit, there’s already been over a thousand this year! But at least there’s not been any murders!”

Angus Prune said:

bob(from black rock) said:

Perhaps they should go 180 degrees ‘tother way? seem to remember a news article that the local Mayor in some little hick town in the USA making it compulsory for all citizens to have to wear a hand gun clearly visible when out in public, and the crime rate dropped to zero.

“Hey chief, there’s been another self-defence shooting.”
“Dagnabbit, there’s already been over a thousand this year! But at least there’s not been any murders!”

.. and forty five woundings from accidental discharge.

party_pants said:

Angus Prune said:

bob(from black rock) said:

Perhaps they should go 180 degrees ‘tother way? seem to remember a news article that the local Mayor in some little hick town in the USA making it compulsory for all citizens to have to wear a hand gun clearly visible when out in public, and the crime rate dropped to zero.

“Hey chief, there’s been another self-defence shooting.”
“Dagnabbit, there’s already been over a thousand this year! But at least there’s not been any murders!”

.. and forty five woundings from accidental discharge.

I really don’t know why bother with facts and figures.

Surely it is known.

I see the NRA have finally released their long-awaited sensible contribution to the gun debate: arme security guards in every school.

I can’t begin to imagine how utterly boring that job would be, with literally nothing to do for 99.999% of them.

>>I can’t begin to imagine how utterly boring that job would be, with literally nothing to do for 99.999% of them.

Depends, a good vigilant guard could be taking down maybe one or two suspects a week.
You can’t take risks with childrens lives, if a bloke with a bulge in his jacket walks past the school you haven’t got time to ask questions.
A school with a trigger happy guard is a safe school.