http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-18/pentagons-doubts-on-joint-strike-fighter/4524962

The multi-billion-dollar F-35 Joint Strike Fighter chosen by Australia as its replacement combat aircraft is again flying through turbulence, with strong criticism from a Pentagon general about the system used to build it.

The Joint Strike Fighter has been billed as the smartest fighter jet on the planet, designed to strike enemies in the air and on the ground without being detected by radar.

But Australia’s most expensive defence acquisition has experienced soaring coasts and is now at least five years late.

US Air Force Lieutenant General Chris Bogdan, who has recently taken over as head of the JSF project team, says putting the plane into production before it has been tested properly – a process called concurrency – has caused major problems.

“A large amount of concurrency, that is, beginning production long before your design is stable and long before you’ve found problems in test, creates downstream issues where now you have to go back and retrofit airplanes and make sure the production line has those fixes in them. And that drives complexity and cost,” he told tonight’s Four Corners.

“Let’s make no mistake about it. This program still has risks, technical risks, it has cost issues, it has problems we’ll have to fix in the future.”

Watch the Four Corners trailer here
In 2002 Australia signed up to buy up to as many as 100 Joint Strike Fighters to replace the RAAF’s ageing front-line defences, the F-111 fighter-bomber and FA-18 Hornet.

Back then the JSFs were estimated to cost $40 million each. Now the price is estimated at nearer $130 million.

Four Corners reveals that 10 years ago the head of the RAAF, Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston, was warned the JSF might be late and the RAAF should opt for a mixed fleet rather than a single-type air force made up solely of JSF aircraft.

‘On a whim’
We were proposing that we buy something being developed for the US Air Force, if you like, on a whim.
Former Defence official, speaking in condition of anonymity
A former Defence official closely involved in the oversight of the replacement program agreed to talk to Four Corners on condition that his identity was protected.

He said the decision to join the JSF program was taken without the aircraft ever being fully tested – and that Air Chief Marshal Houston was seemingly swayed by the enthusiasm of his US counterpart.

“He told several people at the time that the Chief of the US Air Force had said this was the right aeroplane for Australia and so Angus thought that was the correct answer, that this was the right aircraft for us.”

The former Defence official said it was “an interesting approach” and certainly “speeded up the decision-making process”.

He said Australia would normally have gone through a competitive tendering process to work out “what the aeroplane could do, what its costs and its schedule was”.

But this had not happened in the case of the JSF, he said.

“We were proposing that we buy something being developed for the US Air Force, if you like, on a whim.”

In a statement to Four Corners, Angus Houston said: “The System Design and Development phase was non-binding and the Australian Government could opt out if it so wished.”

He added: “I am still convinced that the JSF is the right air combat aircraft to meet Australia’s future security needs.”

Watch the full Four Corners report on ABC1 at 8:30pm.

i like the look of this aircraft myself

Think of the pot plants they could buy if they pulled out of the deal. Marvellous!

Does it have one or two engines? looks like 2 intakes, but only one exhaust?

bob(from black rock) said:

Does it have one or two engines? looks like 2 intakes, but only one exhaust?

Well, I don’t claim to be an expert but that looks like a really old fighter and not very stealthy.

Google tells me this is the JSF

wookiemeister said:

i like the look of this aircraft myself

.

.

I don’t like the colour. Does it come in Burnt Orange or Purple, or something less, well, aggressive looking? Maybe faux tie-died, or wood-grain would be good.

.

The pointy bits on the front are perfect for skewering.

Michael V said:

Think of the pot plants they could buy if they pulled out of the deal. Marvellous!

well you’d think they’d at least have them as the camouflage scheme

bob(from black rock) said:

Does it have one or two engines? looks like 2 intakes, but only one exhaust?

only one

it will be ok

The photo Wookie posted is of the Swedish SABB Gripen, a similar plane to the French Dassault Rafale, the JSF is in the next league up.

Peak Warming Man said:

The photo Wookie posted is of the Swedish SABB Gripen, a similar plane to the French Dassault Rafale, the JSF is in the next league up.

yeah

if it ever flies

they might as well throw it into the seasprite closet and be done with it

Peak Warming Man said:

The photo Wookie posted is of the Swedish SABB Gripen, a similar plane to the French Dassault Rafale, the JSF is in the next league up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_JAS_39_Gripen

I thort all military A/C had to be twin engined now.

I thort all military A/C had to be twin engined now.

>>they might as well throw it into the seasprite closet and be done with it

Not so fast pointdexter, similar problems and cost blowouts beset the F111 and it turned out fine.

bob(from black rock) said:

I thort all military A/C had to be twin engined now.

Seems to be an echo in here??

Peak Warming Man said:

>>they might as well throw it into the seasprite closet and be done with it

Not so fast pointdexter, similar problems and cost blowouts beset the F111 and it turned out fine.

yeah they kept tried making it a fighter

all the thrust in christendom couldn’t make that plane a fighter

just like seasprite you had plenty of voices saying NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

as it turns out they just made a snap decision to waste millions of dollars without any fore thought

party_pants said:

p_p thanks this shot clearly shows they are twin engined.

bob(from black rock) said:

party_pants said:

p_p thanks this shot clearly shows they are twin engined.

It would, except that’s a different plane. Note the two vertical stabilisers, the previous plane had only one.

This JSF can hold quite a few pot plants.

Angus Prune said:

bob(from black rock) said:

party_pants said:

p_p thanks this shot clearly shows they are twin engined.

Yeah! buggerut! I give up!

That’s a nice Windows X-Box.

I heard a snippet saying that you can’t fly it closer than 25 km (or miles?) to a lightning storm.

Hang on I’ll post a photo of the JSF in Stealth Mode.

.

“The wing buffet is worse than previously reported.”

What are the pilots to eat?

Peak Warming Man said:

I’ve heard it’s more of a beach ball on radar…

.

I was expecting a piccy of a plane with the windscreen blacked out like when the media are trying to protect an identity.

Peak Warming Man said:

Hang on I’ll post a photo of the JSF in Stealth Mode.

Far canal, it is far can invisible

bob(from black rock) said:

Angus Prune said:

bob(from black rock) said:

party_pants said:

(pic deleted)

p_p thanks this shot clearly shows they are twin engined.

Yeah! buggerut! I give up!

Sorry Bob. They’re F/A – 18 E Super Hornets. They’re what we’ve got now n the meantime as a stop-gap. before the JSF is delivered.

We should get that new Iranian stealth fighter.
I reckon they’d cost maybe $50 so we could afford a few thousand of them no probs.

Spiny Norman said:

We should get that new Iranian stealth fighter.
I reckon they’d cost maybe $50 so we could afford a few thousand of them no probs.

That’s the one that “flew” above the snow-capped mountains, right?

Divine Angel said:

Spiny Norman said:

We should get that new Iranian stealth fighter.
I reckon they’d cost maybe $50 so we could afford a few thousand of them no probs.

That’s the one that “flew” above the snow-capped mountains, right?

Yep.
Awesomesauce huh?

Totes.

It’s a bit early, but I bought you one for your birthday.

Spiny Norman said:

It’s a bit early, but I bought you one for your birthday.

Cool! Can I have a catopus to put in it too?

Divine Angel said:

Spiny Norman said:

It’s a bit early, but I bought you one for your birthday.

Cool! Can I have a catopus to put in it too?

Yes of course, they are scientifically proven to bring good luck.

Spiny Norman said:

We should get that new Iranian stealth fighter.
I reckon they’d cost maybe $50 so we could afford a few thousand of them no probs.

We’d have to retrofit them with brakes ion the wheels. Could be exxy…

If not already mentioned Four Corners about to start. My choice for the future fighter would have been the F15 Strike Eagle with glass cockpit.

Skunkworks said:

If not already mentioned Four Corners about to start. My choice for the future fighter would have been the F15 Strike Eagle with glass cockpit.

Ya got my vote. Better than anything we are every likely to face and no doubt a pretty reasonable price second-hand.

Spiny Norman said:

Skunkworks said:

If not already mentioned Four Corners about to start. My choice for the future fighter would have been the F15 Strike Eagle with glass cockpit.

Ya got my vote. Better than anything we are every likely to face and no doubt a pretty reasonable price second-hand.

And they look good.

you could probably pick up a few for a good price considering the american economy is boned from fighting wars around the planet AND the conversion rate is very good to the dollar.

Skunkworks said:

If not already mentioned Four Corners about to start. My choice for the future fighter would have been the F15 Strike Eagle with glass cockpit.

Wonder Woman’s Invisible Plane is also a contender!

ms spock said:

Skunkworks said:

If not already mentioned Four Corners about to start. My choice for the future fighter would have been the F15 Strike Eagle with glass cockpit.

Wonder Woman’s Invisible Plane is also a contender!

I endorse this concept or idea.

‘sup on iView already. I don’t have to wait another 90 minutes in WA.

I felt that didn’t actually tell us much that we didn’t already know.

party_pants said:

I felt that didn’t actually tell us much that we didn’t already know.

Just watched it?

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

I felt that didn’t actually tell us much that we didn’t already know.

Just watched it?

Watched half of it before I went outside, just finished watching the rest.

They’re not fooling anyone with the F in F111 or JSF.

These things are little more than bomb trucks.

Are there still any such things as “fighter” planes these days anyway? Surely aicraft “fighting” other aircraft just means launching guided air-to-air missiles.

Bubblecar said:

Are there still any such things as “fighter” planes these days anyway? Surely aicraft “fighting” other aircraft just means launching guided air-to-air missiles.

Yes. “fighter” aircraft generally means the the primary purpose of the aeroplane is shooting down enemy planes, whether it be by missile or cannon or machine gun isn’t really important.

Bubblecar said:

Are there still any such things as “fighter” planes these days anyway? Surely aicraft “fighting” other aircraft just means launching guided air-to-air missiles.

Yes. Their functions have been merged since about the F15 (80s) era.

A lot of this has to do with computer functionality (believe it or don’t).

the strike fighter thread doesn’t open anymore by just clicking on it – you need to open it up in another window

heres some more info

you can throw the F-35 into the same dustbin as “seasprite”

The Pentagon has grounded its F-35 fighter jets after discovering a crack in one of the aircraft’s engines.

It has suspended all flights operated by the fleet of 51 jets while the turbine blade crack is investigated.

The fault was discovered during a routine check of one of the planes at Edwards Air Force Base in California.

It is the second time in two months the fleet has been grounded.

Pentagon spokeswoman Kyra Hawn says it is not known how long the planes will be out of service for this time.

“We’re talking about analysis of one blade in one turbine,” she said.

“We have to find out through structural tests whether or not this is an isolated incident or whether they will have a more far reaching impact on the F-35 fleet.”

The F-35 is the Pentagon’s biggest weapons program, known as the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program, but it has been dogged by delays and cost increased.

Australia has delayed its order of the fighter jets after originally indicating it would buy 100.

Former defence minister Joel Fitzgibbon says the latest situation is concerning.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-23/pentagon-grounds-f-35-fighter-jet-fleet/4535794

wookiemeister said:

the strike fighter thread doesn’t open anymore by just clicking on it – you need to open it up in another window

Wrong.

Geoff D said:

wookiemeister said:

the strike fighter thread doesn’t open anymore by just clicking on it – you need to open it up in another window

Wrong.

not for me

its the only topic that requires me to do this

and consider this

if it happens for me then i am still correct in my original statement

the strike fighter thread doesn’t open anymore by just clicking on it – you need to open it up in another window

have you tried turning your keyboard upside down to knock some of the bullshit out of it?

wookiemeister said:

Geoff D said:

wookiemeister said:

the strike fighter thread doesn’t open anymore by just clicking on it – you need to open it up in another window

Wrong.

not for me

its the only topic that requires me to do this

and consider this

if it happens for me then i am still correct in my original statement

And if it doesn’t happen for me, then I am still correct.

just takes a while, because of all the embedded images

Geoff D said:

just takes a while, because of all the embedded images

and also because Mossad is screening the forum

wookiemeister said:

the strike fighter thread doesn’t open anymore by just clicking on it – you need to open it up in another window

I’ve had some trouble getting my Fabulous February Chat Club thread to open. I’m really worried :/

Boris said:

the strike fighter thread doesn’t open anymore by just clicking on it – you need to open it up in another window

have you tried turning your keyboard upside down to knock some of the bullshit out of it?

kettle

black

wookiemeister said:

Boris said:

the strike fighter thread doesn’t open anymore by just clicking on it – you need to open it up in another window

have you tried turning your keyboard upside down to knock some of the bullshit out of it?

kettle

black

No.

Geoff D said:

wookiemeister said:

Geoff D said:

Wrong.

not for me

its the only topic that requires me to do this

and consider this

if it happens for me then i am still correct in my original statement

And if it doesn’t happen for me, then I am still correct.

correct

you’d have to concede that you were wrong

neomyrtus_ said:

Geoff D said:

just takes a while, because of all the embedded images

and also because Mossad is screening the forum

shame about that bloke they tortured and killed in that mossad prison recently

oh thats right – its all a conspiracy

you shall know the tree by its fruit

poikilotherm said:

wookiemeister said:

Boris said:

the strike fighter thread doesn’t open anymore by just clicking on it – you need to open it up in another window

have you tried turning your keyboard upside down to knock some of the bullshit out of it?

kettle

black

No.

no

wookiemeister said:

neomyrtus_ said:

Geoff D said:

just takes a while, because of all the embedded images

and also because Mossad is screening the forum

shame about that bloke they tortured and killed in that mossad prison recently

oh thats right – its all a conspiracy

you shall know the tree by its fruit

He was one of theirs, so no great loss.

Geoff D said:

wookiemeister said:

neomyrtus_ said:

and also because Mossad is screening the forum

shame about that bloke they tortured and killed in that mossad prison recently

oh thats right – its all a conspiracy

you shall know the tree by its fruit

He was one of theirs, so no great loss.

its a shame because

1 he was first an australian national. when you carry one of these you are in theory protected by the australian people – a passport is no mere piece of paper, it is the tangible essence of the state.

2 he had been brainwashed to work for them in the first place – my guesses are the hit they did in dubai had nothing to do with his arrest. he might have been asked to do a hit in australia and baulked at the idea. the operation he was involved with was happening here.

wookiemeister said:

its a shame because

1 he was first an australian national. when you carry one of these you are in theory protected by the australian people – a passport is no mere piece of paper, it is the tangible essence of the state.

IMO, he gave up all right to Australian nationality as soon as he held Australian passport in a name that wasn’t his.

Geoff D said:

wookiemeister said:

its a shame because

1 he was first an australian national. when you carry one of these you are in theory protected by the australian people – a passport is no mere piece of paper, it is the tangible essence of the state.

IMO, he gave up all right to Australian nationality as soon as he held Australian passport in a name that wasn’t his.

well as i understand he was just changing his name

they change their name umpteen times to cover their tracks

it wouldn’t be a bad idea to have your past names on the australian passport.

Born and buried as Ben Zygier, known and worked as Ben Allon, so to have a Australian passport in the name of Ben Allen requires more than one person to make false declarations. He played with fire, he got burned. Not a great deal of sympathy from me.

you just don’t like being told you’re full of shit woowookie. you’re a nutter.

Boris said:

you just don’t like being told you’re full of shit woowookie. you’re a nutter.

hey

you can argue with geoff about the mossad connection if you like – ring up the ABC and tell them to pull the story or you’ll do a hit on the boss

my guess?

you’re a religious nutter too

you’re a religious nutter too

hahahahaha. your guess ain’t worth jack woowookie.

the only other person that has ever shown any disregard for fact was the beervator of the old sssf forum

when i asked him why iraq was invaded he told me he had to do some cooking

the sssf closed a number of years afterwards and no matter what prompting i gave – he could never tell me.

i can just make a mental note and just scratch in boris under some suitable title.

anyone fighting against any form of known fact normally has some connection to the problem

you’re still a nutter woowookie though. always have been always will be. just accept that you don’t have any rational thoughts.

Boris said:

you’re a religious nutter too

hahahahaha. your guess ain’t worth jack woowookie.

yes

the abuse thing is a common trait of various saboteurs of internet forums

the isreali gov announced a few years ago they were going to use friends and fellow travellers to crack down on any critique of israel, i’ve seen them in other forums they take essentially the same guise. i take it as par of the course now.

Boris said:

you’re still a nutter woowookie though. always have been always will be. just accept that you don’t have any rational thoughts.

tell me more boris

tell me what you really think

you abuse us with your crap every day. be a man and take some back.

i’ve just told you what i think, are you literate as well as stupid?

Boris said:

you abuse us with your crap every day. be a man and take some back.

ok boris

is it ok to kill someone because jehovah says its ok to do so?

who is jehovah? a mossad agent? ohhhh you’re onto your religious nuttery now.

Boris said:

who is jehovah? a mossad agent? ohhhh you’re onto your religious nuttery now.

no i’m asking you boris

lets forget mossad for a while and concentrate on what you believe / think

fancy have a go at answering the answer?

wookiemeister said:

Boris said:

who is jehovah? a mossad agent? ohhhh you’re onto your religious nuttery now.

no i’m asking you boris

lets forget mossad for a while and concentrate on what you believe / think

fancy have a go at answering the answer?

edit

or answering the question?!

ok boris

do you believe in jehovah?

looks as if boris has gone

i’ll ask him when i see him again

i remember watching some programme about philosophy, this fellah was walking around athens asking people what they thought “the good life” was all about

he asked some greek orthodox priest and the priest ran away from him!

he was imitating socrates style of starting with a question and using some deconstruction to get down to some kind of conclusion

if it helps you get a grip on sanity woowookie i am not religious in any way.

i’m just constructing a VC hide

when i see boris again i’ll pop out from nowhere

Boris said:

if it helps you get a grip on sanity woowookie i am not religious in any way.

i’m asking you if you believe in jehovah

yes or no

what part of my answer didn’t you understand?

The JSF is new and shiny, and will come in a range of fashionable colours. That’s all we need to know. It is the jet fighter Harrods would sell you.

harrods are part of the axle of evil.

Boris said:

what part of my answer didn’t you understand?

because you never answered it boris

i’m used to these kinds of tricks

party_pants said:

The JSF is new and shiny, and will come in a range of fashionable colours. That’s all we need to know. It is the jet fighter Harrods would sell you.

Lets hope they have a good returns policy

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21554331

Boris said:

who is jehovah? a mossad agent? ohhhh you’re onto your religious nuttery now.

I think that it is amazing that this forum has managed to attract in so many Zionist Mossad secret-squirrel spies to take on the might of Teh Wooookster. Regards of what you actually say, Teh Wooooookster manages to uncover a conspiracy of vast proportions involving all of us being Jewish and working for the state of Israel.

Boris said:

harrods are part of the axle of evil.

one thing i have noticed is that around 10 minutes on this topic neo suddenly turns up turn supthe abuse and then suddenly you appear

no one forces neo to do this

or yourself

and I appear to have troll-alolled this thread.

How can we Godwin it?

well i said that i am not religious in any way. if that is so then logically i don’t believe in gods. and seeing jehovah is another name for a god then i guess i don’t believe in that god either. of course jehovah could be the name of someone and if so in that case then i guess i do believe in that particular jehovah. you weren’t too clear on the matter. typical religious nutter.

neomyrtus_ said:

and I appear to have troll-alolled this thread.

How can we Godwin it?

Wookie is really just like Hitler, thinking everything bad is coming out of Israel. Even though they don’t drive our SS Commodores…

How was that?

neomyrtus_ said:

Boris said:

who is jehovah? a mossad agent? ohhhh you’re onto your religious nuttery now.

I think that it is amazing that this forum has managed to attract in so many Zionist Mossad secret-squirrel spies to take on the might of Teh Wooookster. Regards of what you actually say, Teh Wooooookster manages to uncover a conspiracy of vast proportions involving all of us being Jewish and working for the state of Israel.

ermmm

neo

its in the news at the moment just like the joint strike fighter

i’m sorry to burst your bubble but they detained an australian and then they turned up dead in a suicide proof cell

if you’ve got a problem with this just go and ask them

why should we let you get away with posting your antisemitic crap woowookie? are you some protected species? you post crap and we will respond. if you can’t take it bugger off somewhere that will be kinder to you.

Boris said:

well i said that i am not religious in any way. if that is so then logically i don’t believe in gods. and seeing jehovah is another name for a god then i guess i don’t believe in that god either. of course jehovah could be the name of someone and if so in that case then i guess i do believe in that particular jehovah. you weren’t too clear on the matter. typical religious nutter.

ok

just to be perfectly clear boris

i want you to answer

“i don’t believe in jehovah”

this will make things clear for me

poikilotherm said:

Wookie is really just like Hitler, thinking everything bad is coming out of Israel. Even though they don’t drive our SS Commodores…

How was that?

Not out. Didn’t carry.

Boris said:

why should we let you get away with posting your antisemitic crap woowookie? are you some protected species? you post crap and we will respond. if you can’t take it bugger off somewhere that will be kinder to you.

define semite boris

by the way

you still haven’t answered the question

before you get all hung up on on any other matter answer the question first

What GeoffD said pretty much summed it up.

party_pants said:

poikilotherm said:

Wookie is really just like Hitler, thinking everything bad is coming out of Israel. Even though they don’t drive our SS Commodores…

How was that?

Not out. Didn’t carry.

Yeh…might try again later. woo noes no bounds

party_pants said:

poikilotherm said:

Wookie is really just like Hitler, thinking everything bad is coming out of Israel. Even though they don’t drive our SS Commodores…

How was that?

Not out. Didn’t carry.

i’m an expert of dealing with religious nutters pp

i see myself more as a deprogrammer

they don’t like it, my word they don’t like it

i think you’ll find my answer in what you quoted from me woowookie.

wookiemeister said:

i want you to answer

he doesn’t have to do anything you demand … grow up or eff off.

this bit.

and seeing jehovah is another name for a god then i guess i don’t believe in that god either.

Boris said:

i think you’ll find my answer in what you quoted from me woowookie.

so from that i will infer that you don’t want to answer that question

boris won’t tell me he doesn’t believe in jehovah

ergo boris does believe in jehovah

poikilotherm said:

Wookie is really just like Hitler, thinking everything bad is coming out of Israel. Even though they don’t drive our SS Commodores…

How was that?

hmmmm.. no.. perhaps something along the lines of the Luftwaffe ?

speaking of effing off. Shoes first, then mopping while wearing new shoes.

neomyrtus_ said:

wookiemeister said:

i want you to answer

he doesn’t have to do anything you demand … grow up or eff off.

i already know you believe in the sky pixie jehovah or you wouldn’t be so agitated

i’m worried for boris at the moment

Boris said:

this bit.

and seeing jehovah is another name for a god then i guess i don’t believe in that god either.

i would like a statement involving nothing other than jehovah

its simple enough and it means theres no wriggle for you in your own psychology

party_pants said:

speaking of effing off. Shoes first, then mopping while wearing new shoes.

you’re missing all the “fun”

boris and neo have decided to start a discussion about why jehovah is correct and everyone who doesn’t believe in him must be killed or made slaves

don’t take my word for it read it in leviticus or for that matter practically any book of the old testament.

wow

i’ve hit a nerve boris

bump as much as you want

wags finger

don’t get involved in things you can’t debate

party_pants said:

speaking of effing off. Shoes first, then mopping while wearing new shoes.

good idea – not the buying shoes (I’m not into buying shoes but I do need to get some new hiking boots soon) – but the effing off bit. It’s a lovely day best spent being productive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m34GUn0QqA