Any of HF’s smokers tried these?

Experts wary of e-cigarettes as test run looms

The first Australian clinical trial of e-cigarettes as quit-smoking tools will kick off this year with support for the devices building, but the government and some public health experts remain wary.

E-cigarettes are battery-powered electronic tubes that simulate the effects of smoking by evaporating a liquid solution into nicotine vapour. Some of the cheaper ones mimic the look of traditional cigarettes – complete with glowing tip – but they produce only vapour, no smoke or ash.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/experts-wary-of-ecigarettes-as-test-run-looms-20130304-2ffv0.html#ixzz2Md1OQOLY

who are HF’s smokers?

My boss smokes one of these things exclusively. But he bought it overseas and does regular trips around SE Asia and India where he can re-stock on the refills.

There’s no smoke as such, just a little puff of steam when he exhales. He smokes them indoors.

party_pants said:

My boss smokes one of these things exclusively. But he bought it overseas and does regular trips around SE Asia and India where he can re-stock on the refills.

There’s no smoke as such, just a little puff of steam when he exhales. He smokes them indoors.

I find it difficult to believe that he smokes it.

I’m assuming the reason they’re growing in popularity is because they deliver a nicotine hit with the same strength and immediacy as a real cigarette (unlike patches etc, which are slow release).

roughbarked said:

party_pants said:

My boss smokes one of these things exclusively. But he bought it overseas and does regular trips around SE Asia and India where he can re-stock on the refills.

There’s no smoke as such, just a little puff of steam when he exhales. He smokes them indoors.

I find it difficult to believe that he smokes it.

Well, he inhales from it like he would an oirdinary cigarette.

Looking them up online, it’s a wonder they’re not massively more popular on price alone. Once you’ve got your e-cigarette, $10 buys you enough nicotine juice to last as long as eight packets of cigarettes.

>who are HF’s smokers?

Sibeen & sarahs mum are two of them.

I know it seems very stupid for someone who gave up smoking over a decade ago, but I confess I’m toying with the idea of taking up e-cigarettes, partly for the appetite-suppressing qualities of nicotine and partly for its mood control value (i.e., helping one to concentrate or relax etc) when taken in controlled but sufficiently large doses. The price paid of course would be the re-activation of a nicotine addiction (and whatever health problems might eventually prove to be associated with e-cigarettes. At the moment they seem fairly harmless, certainly much safer than smoking cigarettes).

But I repeat, I’m only toying with the idea at this stage :)

Apparently you can also get flavoured ones, like strawberry or chocolate etc.

Bubblecar said:

I know it seems very stupid for someone who gave up smoking over a decade ago, but I confess I’m toying with the idea of taking up e-cigarettes, partly for the appetite-suppressing qualities of nicotine and partly for its mood control value (i.e., helping one to concentrate or relax etc) when taken in controlled but sufficiently large doses. The price paid of course would be the re-activation of a nicotine addiction (and whatever health problems might eventually prove to be associated with e-cigarettes. At the moment they seem fairly harmless, certainly much safer than smoking cigarettes).

But I repeat, I’m only toying with the idea at this stage :)

Flavoured or otherwise, nothing changes the fact that nicotine is toxic.

I gave up cigarettes about 25? years ago with the help of a product called “Smokestop” which was just liquid nicotine, a couple of drops of this under your tongue gave an instant nicotine burst, I carried a new packet of cigs with me which I never got to open, don’t think you can buy
“Smokestop” anymore proly cause it worked so well and was inexpensive.

Hmm. I think there may be a niche market for homeopathic nicotine…

roughbarked said:

Flavoured or otherwise, nothing changes the fact that nicotine is toxic.

As is Alcohol and caffeine.

all the liquid for these sold in australia is nicotine free. it is a controlled substance and can’t be resold. the company where you bought the device and supplies of liquid, nicotine free, will give you an overseas supplier who’ will sell you nicotine liquid. you can buy so many mls a month.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

roughbarked said:

Flavoured or otherwise, nothing changes the fact that nicotine is toxic.

As is Alcohol and caffeine.

And love and butterflies. It all kills you in the end.

Boris said:

all the liquid for these sold in australia is nicotine free. it is a controlled substance and can’t be resold. the company where you bought the device and supplies of liquid, nicotine free, will give you an overseas supplier who’ will sell you nicotine liquid. you can buy so many mls a month.

Yes, you’re allowed to import up to 3 months supply at a time for personal use.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

roughbarked said:

Flavoured or otherwise, nothing changes the fact that nicotine is toxic.

As is Alcohol and caffeine.

And Oxygen? anyone who has died of any disease has breathed oxygen,so if you give up oxygen you wont die of any disease.

<FONT color="lime">And Oxygen?

yep at certain pressure and concentrations.

bob(from black rock) said:

I gave up cigarettes about 25? years ago with the help of a product called “Smokestop” which was just liquid nicotine, a couple of drops of this under your tongue gave an instant nicotine burst, I carried a new packet of cigs with me which I never got to open, don’t think you can buy
“Smokestop” anymore proly cause it worked so well and was inexpensive.

These e-cigarettes use liquid nicotine in a vegetable glycerin or similar base, with flavourings and presumably water. The battery-powered element in the tube turns this into a visible steam which is inhaled, so you’re taking the nicotine in through your lungs, as with a conventional cigarette, but without all the dangeroius products of combustion.

Boris said:

all the liquid for these sold in australia is nicotine free. it is a controlled substance and can’t be resold. the company where you bought the device and supplies of liquid, nicotine free, will give you an overseas supplier who’ will sell you nicotine liquid. you can buy so many mls a month.

Yet the use of nicotine in this country has a rich history that goes back for at least five millenia.
I came on this rather interesting blog that poikilotherm might also be interested to read.

http://prehistoricdrugs.wordpress.com/category/individual-drugs/pituri/

I wonder where Poikilotherm is today?

Wow, her quals include Batchelor (sic) of Pharmacy 1950. Wonder how much has changed since then?

Divine Angel said:

Wow, her quals include Batchelor (sic) of Pharmacy 1950. Wonder how much has changed since then?

Not much. Pharmacists can count, but they still can’t spell. ;-)

Apart from a lot more drugs and interactions, what’s changed?

Tee hee about spelling :p

what’s the name of that australian “tobacco” plant? saw it growing in central australia.

Boris said:

what’s the name of that australian “tobacco” plant? saw it growing in central australia.

I don’t know why I bother posting these interesting links. sigh

pituri
Duboisia hopwoodii

morrie said:

Divine Angel said:

Wow, her quals include Batchelor (sic) of Pharmacy 1950. Wonder how much has changed since then?

Not much. Pharmacists can count, but they still can’t spell. ;-)

:P – interestingly, in Aus, they didn’t have a B.pharm degree back then…it was an apprenticeship – PhC.

I’ve been working, strangely enough…

pituri. that’s the one. sposed to be pretty pokie.

Duboisia (commonly called Corkwood Tree) is a genus of small perennial shrubs to trees about 14 m tall, with extremely light wood and a thick corky bark. There are four species; all occur in Australia, and one also occurs in New Caledonia.

The alternate, glabrous leaves are narrow and elliptical. The inflorescence is an open cymose panicle of apically small white flowers, sometimes with a purple or mauve striped tube. They flower profusely in spring. The fruit is a small, globular, black, juicy berry.

The nicotine, scopolamine and hyoscyamine-containing leaves of Duboisia are the active component of the drug pituri, used by indigenous peoples of central Australia for its stimulant, euphoric, antispasmodic and analgesic effects. For example, smoke from the burning leaves is inhaled at ceremonies, such as male initiation rites, including circumcision, in part because of its anaesthetic properties and ability to induce altered states of consciousness. The dried leaves of Duboisia hopwoodii is also mixed with ash from Acacia species and chewed. One paleontologist, Dr Gavin Young, named the fossil agnathan Pituriaspis doylei after pituri, as he thought he might be hallucinating upon viewing the fossil fish’s bizarre form. Prior to European settlement in Australia, pituri was exported along trade routes and used by indigenous peoples far from central Australia, including Torres Strait Islanders.

The leaves of Duboisia leichhardtii and Duboisia myoporoides also contain scopolamine and hyoscyamine, along with some other pharmaceutically important alkaloids. A derivative of scopolamine is the drug butylscopolamine, a potent peripherally acting antispasmodic. These trees are commercially grown for the pharmaceutical industry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duboisia

I’ve been working, strangely enough…

get some new batteries eh?

morrie said:

Boris said:

what’s the name of that australian “tobacco” plant? saw it growing in central australia.

I don’t know why I bother posting these interesting links. sigh

pituri
Duboisia hopwoodii

.

I’m finding it interesting, morrie.

sorry morrie. doing other stuff so don’t always go to links.

i see it in the url now.

:-)

>I don’t know why I bother posting these interesting links. sigh

I read some of it :)

Equivalent to two stiff whiskies, eh? That’s strange because I wouldn’t personally equate the effect of nicotine with that of alcohol in that way. Mind you, the nicotine hit of pituri is supposed to be pretty potent.

Michael V said:

morrie said:

Boris said:

what’s the name of that australian “tobacco” plant? saw it growing in central australia.

I don’t know why I bother posting these interesting links. sigh

pituri
Duboisia hopwoodii

.

I’m finding it interesting, morrie.

Thanks Michael. I was just thinking that I might write to her about that mushroom

Bubblecar said:

>I don’t know why I bother posting these interesting links. sigh

I read some of it :)

Equivalent to two stiff whiskies, eh? That’s strange because I wouldn’t personally equate the effect of nicotine with that of alcohol in that way. Mind you, the nicotine hit of pituri is supposed to be pretty potent.

She discusses this in some detail well down in the section on pituri. It depends on how you consume it.

>> but I confess I’m toying with the idea of taking up e-cigarettes

I see you more as an e-pipe man.

i like the chewing stuff myself so you could say e-bygum.

Neophyte said:

>> but I confess I’m toying with the idea of taking up e-cigarettes

I see you more as an e-pipe man.

That’s another idea.

Mind you, I’m still feeling a bit insane even considering these things.

>e-pipe

You can even make them yourself:

http://ukvapers.org/Thread-Epipe-Pics?page=2

Here’s a nice one:

I bet you could print one on one of those 3D printers.

Pituri isn’t tobacco as such. It is chewed rather than smoked.

There are quite a few Nicotona species native to Australia and at least one introduced.

Some appealing e-pipes being made by Sun Pipes in Italy:

Well, for better or worse, I’ve decided to give vaping a go, despite having been free of any nicotine habit for the past 12 years or so. I’m suspecting it’ll be a big help in seriously curbing the eating & drinking. Unfortunately vaping is already under irrational attack on various fronts from people who should know better. Here’s an interesting article by Lionel Shriver:

E-cigarettes: no smoke without ire
Puritans and the powerful – and tobacco smokers – can’t take the fact that electronic cigarettes are harmless and enjoyable

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/05/e-cigarettes-tobacco-harmless-enjoyable

Is that the same Lionel Shriver who wrote We Need to Talk About Kevin?

Aye. Although why she’s got a man’s name, I don’t know.

Ah:

Lionel Shriver was born Margaret Ann Shriver on May 18, 1957 in Gastonia, North Carolina, to a deeply religious family (her father is a Presbyterian minister). At age 15, she changed her name from Margaret Ann to Lionel because she did not like the name she had been given, and as a tomboy felt that a conventionally male name fitted her better

Well there you go.

I’ve just ordered this cheapy to begin with, along with extra juice, and if that goes well I’ll get an e-pipe:

http://www.ecigarettechina.com/ego-fp-double-stem-1300mah-e-cigarette-e-cig-with-ego-f1-atomizer-silvery.html?___store=default

Oh, is this what they sell at the mall where I work? Hmmmm…I might look more closely next time.

Bubblecar said:

I’ve just ordered this cheapy to begin with, along with extra juice, and if that goes well I’ll get an e-pipe:

http://www.ecigarettechina.com/ego-fp-double-stem-1300mah-e-cigarette-e-cig-with-ego-f1-atomizer-silvery.html?___store=default

Well, it made rats lose weight…

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8614291

>Oh, is this what they sell at the mall where I work? Hmmmm…I might look more closely next time.

The ones they sell in US malls might not be much good. The advice seems to be to avoid the cigarette-sized ones (which usually try to mimic the look of a cigarette) because they don’t work very well and are poor value for money. That starter kit I’ve ordered from China is said by experienced users to be far superior to these more expensive US starter kits:

http://www.prosmokestore.com/store/electronic-cigarette-starter-kits-2/

>Well, it made rats lose weight…

There you are then.

Bubblecar said:

>Oh, is this what they sell at the mall where I work? Hmmmm…I might look more closely next time.

The ones they sell in US malls might not be much good. The advice seems to be to avoid the cigarette-sized ones (which usually try to mimic the look of a cigarette) because they don’t work very well and are poor value for money. That starter kit I’ve ordered from China is said by experienced users to be far superior to these more expensive US starter kits:

http://www.prosmokestore.com/store/electronic-cigarette-starter-kits-2/

Ah….I’m not interested in using them, but the people who staff the “kiosk” where they are sold call out and harass people to come over and try them. I might explain to them that they are inferior to one that Bubblecar has ordered from China. That’ll shut ‘em up :P

You’ll have to up your beta blockers

Good idea.

neomyrtus_ said:

You’ll have to up your beta blockers

Wossat mean?

Bubblecar said:

neomyrtus_ said:

You’ll have to up your beta blockers

Wossat mean?

Ah, blood pressure. The GP has already put me onto more powerful ones (Atacand). But hopefully the blood pressure will go down as I lose weight.

Actually Atacand Plus.

I wonder if they have been checked out as a delivery system for inhaled antibiotics? I am using Tobramycin at the moment to try and get rid of these greebles once and for all (at least a while) and the decanting, pumps and cleaning is a bit of a PITA. Not as much as going back to hospital though I guess.

Skunkworks said:

I wonder if they have been checked out as a delivery system for inhaled antibiotics? I am using Tobramycin at the moment to try and get rid of these greebles once and for all (at least a while) and the decanting, pumps and cleaning is a bit of a PITA. Not as much as going back to hospital though I guess.

What? Are you using that in a nebuliser?

bubblecar might like to know that one of the main reasons cigarettes are so addictive is because they deliver a hit of nicotine quickly to the brain when inhaled, nicotine alone is known to increase the risk of head & neck cancers.

>nicotine alone is known to increase the risk of head & neck cancers.

That doesn’t seem to be supported by the rat study. How many studies of pure nicotine inhalation have shown a link with head & neck cancers?

Bubblecar said:

>nicotine alone is known to increase the risk of head & neck cancers.

That doesn’t seem to be supported by the rat study. How many studies of pure nicotine inhalation have shown a link with head & neck cancers?

Last I checked, you weren’t a rat ;)

Yes, but I’m assuming there aren’t yet any sufficiently long-term studies of human e-cig users to determine whether there’s any increased cancer risk compared with nicotine-free people.

poikilotherm said:

bubblecar might like to know that one of the main reasons cigarettes are so addictive is because they deliver a hit of nicotine quickly to the brain when inhaled, nicotine alone is known to increase the risk of head & neck cancers.

Some native tribes made pessaries from tobacco…..

Bubblecar said:

Yes, but I’m assuming there aren’t yet any sufficiently long-term studies of human e-cig users to determine whether there’s any increased cancer risk compared with nicotine-free people.

Nope. They only came out in 2004, in China, and weren’t studied at all.

But, those that chew tobacco or use those mini tea bag like things in the gums have an increased incidence of oral cancers, and rat studies suggest it is mainly related to nicotine, rather than the myriad other stuff in them.

The equation I’m looking at is: nicotine delivered in a comparatively very safe way in return for significant weight loss and significantly lowered alcohol intake. Seems a sensible course of action.

Bubblecar said:

The equation I’m looking at is: nicotine delivered in a comparatively very safe way in return for significant weight loss and significantly lowered alcohol intake. Seems a sensible course of action.

If other measures haven’t worked, why not…all the pharmaceutical methods seem to cause coronaries

poikilotherm said:

Bubblecar said:

Yes, but I’m assuming there aren’t yet any sufficiently long-term studies of human e-cig users to determine whether there’s any increased cancer risk compared with nicotine-free people.

Nope. They only came out in 2004, in China, and weren’t studied at all.

But, those that chew tobacco or use those mini tea bag like things in the gums have an increased incidence of oral cancers, and rat studies suggest it is mainly related to nicotine, rather than the myriad other stuff in them.

I’ve been wondering why people make such a big deal out of nicotine being addictive. Big whoop- caffeine is addictive too and no one seems to care. Just keep whacking it into bigger bottles and market it to teenagers.

Bubblecar said:

The equation I’m looking at is: nicotine delivered in a comparatively very safe way in return for significant weight loss and significantly lowered alcohol intake. Seems a sensible course of action.

You could try a session or two under hypnosis (by someone else I mean) or get a partner, the nagging will ensure the drinking decreases.

Divine Angel said:

poikilotherm said:

Bubblecar said:

Yes, but I’m assuming there aren’t yet any sufficiently long-term studies of human e-cig users to determine whether there’s any increased cancer risk compared with nicotine-free people.

Nope. They only came out in 2004, in China, and weren’t studied at all.

But, those that chew tobacco or use those mini tea bag like things in the gums have an increased incidence of oral cancers, and rat studies suggest it is mainly related to nicotine, rather than the myriad other stuff in them.

I’ve been wondering why people make such a big deal out of nicotine being addictive. Big whoop- caffeine is addictive too and no one seems to care. Just keep whacking it into bigger bottles and market it to teenagers.

I don’t think caffeine use has been associated with increased cancer risk…

>the nagging will ensure the drinking decreases.

I think you might have that one arse about.

Skunkworks said:

You could try a session or two under hypnosis (by someone else I mean) or get a partner, the nagging will ensure the drinking decreases.

Not all partners nag.

poikilotherm said:

I don’t think caffeine use has been associated with increased cancer risk…

No, and now I see the brouhaha about nicotine.

Although caffeine studies have shown a possible link between caffeine consumption and exacerbated or triggered mental illness symptoms…

Divine Angel said:

poikilotherm said:

I don’t think caffeine use has been associated with increased cancer risk…

No, and now I see the brouhaha about nicotine.

Although caffeine studies have shown a possible link between caffeine consumption and exacerbated or triggered mental illness symptoms…

Caffeine use is probably associated with cancer though. Just because it hasn’t been isolated yet, it probably does cause hemorrhoids and IBS thus leading to possible bowel cancer.

kii said:

Not all partners nag.

I’m sure you nag enough for both you and Mr Kii combined

*scampers away *

Witty Rejoinder said:

kii said:

Not all partners nag.

I’m sure you nag enough for both you and Mr Kii combined

*scampers away *

Neither of us nag…ask him.

First e-juice I’ll try is the tiny bottle packed with the starter kit, whose label just says “Apple”. No indication of whether there’s nicotine in it, but I’m assuming there is.

It’s working. A little harsh on the throat at first, but the nicotine hit is……nice :)

I made a bit of a dog’s dinner of the filling of it, because the instructions are very inadequate.

Bubblecar said:

It’s working. A little harsh on the throat at first, but the nicotine hit is……nice :)

I was wondering what the hell a vapour was. You taking up e-ciggies, Bubbles?

Considering it, even though I gave up smoking about 12 years ago. It might seem perverse to re-activate a nicotine addiction like that, but I’m wanting the appetite-suppressant effect + the beneficial cognitive effects (helping to concentrate or helping to relax, depending on frame of mind etc).

Bubblecar said:

Considering it, even though I gave up smoking about 12 years ago. It might seem perverse to re-activate a nicotine addiction like that, but I’m wanting the appetite-suppressant effect + the beneficial cognitive effects (helping to concentrate or helping to relax, depending on frame of mind etc).

I’m not sure the facts are conclusive about the above.

Effect so far is like a mild cigarette, but I don’t know the nicotine strength of this particular juice. Also, the last time I had a cigarette was when I cadged a couple off of sarahs mum at Brett’s graduation show last year :)

I’ve got two other bottles of e-juice, one Vanilla at medium nicotine strength, and one “Benson & Hedges” flavour at high nicotine strength.

It’s very odd getting a nicotine high without any stink of tobacco smoke :)

Bubblecar said:

It’s very odd getting a nicotine high without any stink of tobacco smoke :)

To tell you the truth, I only ever noticed the nicotine high a couple of times when I first tried cigarettes. After that, it was I needed a smoke and I had it.. didn’t notice any high.

roughbarked said:

Bubblecar said:

It’s very odd getting a nicotine high without any stink of tobacco smoke :)

To tell you the truth, I only ever noticed the nicotine high a couple of times when I first tried cigarettes. After that, it was I needed a smoke and I had it.. didn’t notice any high.

In my years as a smoker the high was pronounced with the first one of a morning, and after a break without one for a couple hours etc. The mood micro-management effects were quite versatile throughout the day, though.

Vaping is more versatile than smoking, because you can just take a couple puffs whenever you feel like it – you don’t have to smoke the equivalent of an entire fag etc.

Bubblecar said:

roughbarked said:

Bubblecar said:

It’s very odd getting a nicotine high without any stink of tobacco smoke :)

To tell you the truth, I only ever noticed the nicotine high a couple of times when I first tried cigarettes. After that, it was I needed a smoke and I had it.. didn’t notice any high.

In my years as a smoker the high was pronounced with the first one of a morning, and after a break without one for a couple hours etc. The mood micro-management effects were quite versatile throughout the day, though.

Vaping is more versatile than smoking, because you can just take a couple puffs whenever you feel like it – you don’t have to smoke the equivalent of an entire fag etc.

I was never a first one in the morning smoker. In fact most of my working life smoking was limited due to the fact that I rolled my own and not that any boss likes to watch workers roll cigarettes but also that one cannot repair a watch with a cigarette in hand.

>It’s very odd getting a nicotine high without any stink of tobacco smoke :)

I’m using a pipe on a quite regular basis, so the office definitely smells…aromatic :)

This “Benson & Hedges” flavoured one is a bit yucky.

Wonder if “they” could make e-alcohol? and other addictive substances?

bob(from black rock) said:

Wonder if “they” could make e-alcohol? and other addictive substances?

Pretty sure e-meth would be just as illegal as normal meth…

poikilotherm said:

bob(from black rock) said:

Wonder if “they” could make e-alcohol? and other addictive substances?

Pretty sure e-meth would be just as illegal as normal meth…

I wasn’t thinking about the legal aspects, but the reduction of damage to the addicts.

Well, yesterday I had decided that I’ll continue the vaping, but this morning, after waking up with a very sore throat and a nicotine hangover, I’ve dumped all the vaping gear in the bin and emptied the e-juice down the toilet. It seems the benefits I was hoping for – the appetite suppressant effect and mood control assistance – were kicking in, but at the price of taking on an addiction that would bring too many problems and risks of its own.

For those thinking of taking up vaping as a way of giving up smoking, it’s probably the easiest method available, but bear in mind that you’ll be maintaining your addiction and for the nicotine addict, there doesn’t seem to be any equally easy way of giving up vaping, apart from taking up smoking again.

I’m unlikely to experience any withdrawl symptoms or cravings after a few days on the puff, but I’m relieved to have made this decision now rather than after a few weeks of it.

withdrawl = withdrawal

OK I’ll admit I’m vaping again, having fished the e-cig out of the bin and found enough juice left in the bottom of the bottles (whose contents I squirted down the toilet yesterday) to have a few more puffs.

There’s definitely something missing in my life :)

It’s a lifestyle choice, innit? Superior and enhanced mood control.

Bubblecar said:

OK I’ll admit I’m vaping again, having fished the e-cig out of the bin and found enough juice left in the bottom of the bottles (whose contents I squirted down the toilet yesterday) to have a few more puffs.

There’s definitely something missing in my life :)

have a look through some dumpsters they’re a gold mine for tossed nicotine

Electronic cigarettes
No smoke. Why the fire?

The world should welcome the electronic cigarette
Mar 23rd 2013 |From the print edition

SOME inventions are so simple, you have to wonder why no one has come up with them before. One such is the electronic cigarette. Smoking tobacco is the most dangerous voluntary activity in the world. More than 5m people die every year of the consequences. That is one death in ten. People smoke because they value the pleasure they get from nicotine in tobacco over the long-term certainty that their health will be damaged. So it seems rational to welcome a device that separates the dangerous part of smoking (the tar, carbon monoxide and smoke released by the process of combustion) from the nicotine. And that is what an e-cigarette does. It uses electricity from a small battery to vaporise a nicotine-containing solution, so that the user can breathe it in.

E-cigarettes do not just save the lives of smokers: they bring other benefits too. Unlike cigarettes, they do not damage the health of bystanders. They do not even smell that bad, so there is no public nuisance, let alone hazard, and thus no reason to ban their use in public places. Pubs and restaurants should welcome them with open arms.

No wonder the e-cigarette market is growing. Though still small compared with that for real smokes, it doubled in America last year and is likely to do so again in 2013 (see article).

Who could object? Quite a lot of people, it seems. Instead of embracing e-cigarettes, many health lobbyists are determined to stub them out. Some claim that e-cigarettes may act as “gateways” to the real thing. Others suggest that the flavourings sometimes added to the nicotine-bearing solution make e-cigarettes especially attractive to children – a sort of nicotine equivalent of “alcopop” drinks. But these objections seem to be driven by puritanism, not by reason. Some health lobbyists are so determined to prevent people doing anything that remotely resembles smoking – a process referred to as “denormalisation” – that they refuse to endorse a product that reproduces the pleasure of smoking without the harm.

In some places politicians and other busybodies are listening. Several countries (including Austria and New Zealand) restrict the sale of e-cigarettes, for example by classifying them as medical devices; others (Brazil and Singapore) ban them altogether. Some airlines, too, ban passengers from using e-cigarettes on their planes.

We don’t mind if you do
This is wrong. Those charged with improving public health should be promoting e-cigarettes, not discouraging their use. Of course, e-cigarettes should be regulated. Nicotine is an addictive drug, and should therefore be kept out of the hands of children. E-cigarettes should be sold only through licensed outlets, and to adults. It would also be a good idea to do some proper research on them. Nicotine is, after all, a poison (its real purpose is to stop insects eating tobacco plants), so there may be some residual risk to users. But nicotine poisoning is pretty low on the list of bad things that ordinary cigarettes are accused of. Some researchers reckon nicotine to be no more dangerous than caffeine, which coffee plants similarly employ as an insecticide.

The right approach is not to denormalise smoking, but to normalise e-smoking. Those who enjoy nicotine will be able to continue to use it, while everyone else will be spared both the public-health consequences of smoking and the nuisance of other people’s smoke. What’s not to like?

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21573986-world-should-welcome-electronic-cigarette-no-smoke-why-fire

How are nicotine and caffeine effective as insecticides?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine#Historical_use_of_nicotine_as_an_insecticide

Tobacco was introduced to Europe in 1559, and by the late 17th century, it was used not only for smoking but also as an insecticide. After World War II, over 2,500 tons of nicotine insecticide (waste from the tobacco industry) were used worldwide, but by the 1980s the use of nicotine insecticide had declined below 200 tons. This was due to the availability of other insecticides that are cheaper and less harmful to mammals.

Currently, nicotine is a permitted pesticide for organic farming because it is derived from a botanical source. Nicotine sulfate sold for use as a pesticide is labeled “DANGER,” indicating that it is highly toxic. However, in 2008, the EPA received a request to cancel the registration of the last nicotine pesticide registered in the United States. This request was granted, and after 1 January 2014, this pesticide will not be available for sale.

>Nicotine is an addictive drug

This is the crux of the matter I suppose. At the moment, few non-smokers and ex-smokers are taking up vaping, but it could easily become fashionable, especially with all the publicity telling us how “safe and harmless” it is – and then you’d have an increase in people addicted to nicotine. The long-term effects of vaping obviously haven’t yet been studied, and could be a lot less benign than people are supposing. But studies indicate that even short-term use entails immediate respiratory impairment (restricted breathing similar to mild asthma) and my trial run of them involved a sore throat and slightly inflamed tongue, headaches, hot flushes sweating and mild nausea. Some of this may be due to inexperienced usage, but you’d expect quite a few incidences of mild (& not so mild) nicotine poisoning as a result of excessive intake, especially in the devices that you refill yourself.

Bubblecar said:

>Nicotine is an addictive drug

my trial run of them involved a sore throat and slightly inflamed tongue, headaches, hot flushes sweating and mild nausea. Some of this may be due to inexperienced usage

How long has it been since you had a smoke? I get jittery, weird heartbeat and sweaty if I have just a small amount of caffeine nowadays. This is normally what caffeine does to people, but they have so much of it now that it’s “normal” and they need higher and higher doses to get the buzz.

I haven’t been a smoker since the turn of the century. Since then my only smoking has been to cadge a couple cigarettes off sarahs mum when I go to her exibitions etc, once every few years or so :)

Nonetheless even lifelong smokers sometimes overdo it and experience mild poisoning symptoms. With vaping this is probably easier because you can puff on it at any time, without necessarily taking stock of how much you’re taking in. Also, it’s a ridiculously cheap habit. Australian smokers currently have to spend hundreds of $ a month to maintain their habit, while vapers can maintain a much stronger nicotine habit for $20 or so a month, buying very cheap e-juice from China.

Bubblecar said:

I haven’t been a smoker since the turn of the century. Since then my only smoking has been to cadge a couple cigarettes off sarahs mum when I go to her exibitions etc, once every few years or so :)

Nonetheless even lifelong smokers sometimes overdo it and experience mild poisoning symptoms. With vaping this is probably easier because you can puff on it at any time, without necessarily taking stock of how much you’re taking in. Also, it’s a ridiculously cheap habit. Australian smokers currently have to spend hundreds of $ a month to maintain their habit, while vapers can maintain a much stronger nicotine habit for $20 or so a month, buying very cheap e-juice from China.

Well that is not going to last if vaping starts to become more popular and mainstream, a health minister will call on it to be banned or taxed.

Witty Rejoinder said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine#Historical_use_of_nicotine_as_an_insecticide

Tobacco was introduced to Europe in 1559, and by the late 17th century, it was used not only for smoking but also as an insecticide. After World War II, over 2,500 tons of nicotine insecticide (waste from the tobacco industry) were used worldwide, but by the 1980s the use of nicotine insecticide had declined below 200 tons. This was due to the availability of other insecticides that are cheaper and less harmful to mammals.

Currently, nicotine is a permitted pesticide for organic farming because it is derived from a botanical source. Nicotine sulfate sold for use as a pesticide is labeled “DANGER,” indicating that it is highly toxic. However, in 2008, the EPA received a request to cancel the registration of the last nicotine pesticide registered in the United States. This request was granted, and after 1 January 2014, this pesticide will not be available for sale.

If the sale of nicotine as a pesticide is banned. A collection of cigarette butts soaked in water will do the same job. The useful thing about nicotine if sprayed after the bees go to bed, gets all the night time nasties and is rendered harmless by the time the bees get back to work the next day.

100ml mixed fruit e-juice, nicotine strength of your choice, $8.65 with free shipping. Based on my experience, you’d have to be puffing like Thomas the tank engine to use even half of that in a week:

http://www.ecigarettechina.com/ecigarette-liquid/choose-by-flavor/mixed-fruit-flavor-e-liquid/100ml-electronic-liquid-e-liquid-for-electronic-cigarette-mixed-fruit-flavor.html