OK, we were having a bit of a quarrel in here earlier which was essentially about: do mood-altering or mood-enhancing drugs actually have the effect of altering or enhancing moods? My position is that they do, and experienced users can use them to amplify states of mind in various ways. Nicotine, because of its chemical effect of increasing dopamine production, can be a particularly versatile and subtle drug in that regard, helping one to concentrate or to relax, as intelligent smokers are well aware in their daily use of the stuff.
Unfortunately, there’s also the compounding effect of addiction, which makes it more difficult for habitual smokers to regulate their moods when nicotine is withdrawn, compared with the normal mood regulation of non-users. This withdrawal period can last a critical few weeks before users regain their pre-smoking levels of mood control.
Nonetheless, I maintain that those pre-smoking levels of mood control are never as effective at micro-management of moods compared with those of nicotine users. This is because nicotine is, actually and in fact, a drug that has active chemical effects in the brain, which have been studied in some detail by the eggheads. It’s not an idle claim that nicotine is a mood-enhancing drug, regardless of dependence. But in making these claims, I’ve been depicted as someone lauding sugar pills etc.
So who is right? Is nicotine a mood-altering or mood-enhancing drug whose chemical effects can be controlled by inhalation, or are the scientists who tell us this on some kind of drugs?
OK, we were having a bit of a quarrel in here earlier which was essentially about: do mood-altering or mood-enhancing drugs actually have the effect of altering or enhancing moods? My position is that they do, and experienced users can use them to amplify states of mind in various ways. Nicotine, because of its chemical effect of increasing dopamine production, can be a particularly versatile and subtle drug in that regard, helping one to concentrate or to relax, as intelligent smokers are well aware in their daily use of the stuff.
Unfortunately, there’s also the compounding effect of addiction, which makes it more difficult for habitual smokers to regulate their moods when nicotine is withdrawn, compared with the normal mood regulation of non-users. This withdrawal period can last a critical few weeks before users regain their pre-smoking levels of mood control.
Nonetheless, I maintain that those pre-smoking levels of mood control are never as effective at micro-management of moods compared with those of nicotine users. This is because nicotine is, actually and in fact, a drug that has active chemical effects in the brain, which have been studied in some detail by the eggheads. It’s not an idle claim that nicotine is a mood-enhancing drug, regardless of dependence. But in making these claims, I’ve been depicted as someone lauding sugar pills etc.
So who is right? Is nicotine a mood-altering or mood-enhancing drug whose chemical effects can be controlled by inhalation, or are the scientists who tell us this on some kind of drugs?
what you tend to forget is.. that the devil is in the detail.
you are never in control of yourself under the influence of drugs
a smoker is always looking for the next hit – its not hard to imagine that this would affect their mood considerably
hardened smokers normally find some excuse to rise early sometimes at 4am to walk the dog, cook, prepare for something etc. the real reason is to smoke – the drug has woken them and they need a hit. smokers will often need to have a smoke before they can have a shit in the morning.
there will be a routine
get up
have a smoke
then have a shit as the drug takes hold and relaxes the bowel
you are never in control of yourself under the influence of drugs
a smoker is always looking for the next hit – its not hard to imagine that this would affect their mood considerably
hardened smokers normally find some excuse to rise early sometimes at 4am to walk the dog, cook, prepare for something etc. the real reason is to smoke – the drug has woken them and they need a hit. smokers will often need to have a smoke before they can have a shit in the morning.
there will be a routine
get up
have a smoke
then have a shit as the drug takes hold and relaxes the bowel
Nearly TMI but do you pee first or shit first. or vice versa?
you are never in control of yourself under the influence of drugs
a smoker is always looking for the next hit – its not hard to imagine that this would affect their mood considerably
hardened smokers normally find some excuse to rise early sometimes at 4am to walk the dog, cook, prepare for something etc. the real reason is to smoke – the drug has woken them and they need a hit. smokers will often need to have a smoke before they can have a shit in the morning.
there will be a routine
get up
have a smoke
then have a shit as the drug takes hold and relaxes the bowel
you are never in control of yourself under the influence of drugs
a smoker is always looking for the next hit – its not hard to imagine that this would affect their mood considerably
hardened smokers normally find some excuse to rise early sometimes at 4am to walk the dog, cook, prepare for something etc. the real reason is to smoke – the drug has woken them and they need a hit. smokers will often need to have a smoke before they can have a shit in the morning.
there will be a routine
get up
have a smoke
then have a shit as the drug takes hold and relaxes the bowel
you are never in control of yourself under the influence of drugs
a smoker is always looking for the next hit – its not hard to imagine that this would affect their mood considerably
hardened smokers normally find some excuse to rise early sometimes at 4am to walk the dog, cook, prepare for something etc. the real reason is to smoke – the drug has woken them and they need a hit. smokers will often need to have a smoke before they can have a shit in the morning.
there will be a routine
get up
have a smoke
then have a shit as the drug takes hold and relaxes the bowel
Nearly TMI but do you pee first or shit first. or vice versa?
from what i’ve observed its always laying a shit rather than having a piss
you are never in control of yourself under the influence of drugs
a smoker is always looking for the next hit – its not hard to imagine that this would affect their mood considerably
hardened smokers normally find some excuse to rise early sometimes at 4am to walk the dog, cook, prepare for something etc. the real reason is to smoke – the drug has woken them and they need a hit. smokers will often need to have a smoke before they can have a shit in the morning.
there will be a routine
get up
have a smoke
then have a shit as the drug takes hold and relaxes the bowel
Nearly TMI but do you pee first or shit first. or vice versa?
from what i’ve observed its always laying a shit rather than having a piss
From my observations, a nicotine hit is unnecessary to the process.
some smokers can be made lucid by smoking, others if they are combining it with the caffeine drinks go into a drug overload and start speaking in tongues. someone who errs towards scatty behaviour will become worse when combining it with some other drug.
in general most smokers don’t have any control over their problem
>hardened smokers normally find some excuse to rise early sometimes at 4am to walk the dog, cook, prepare for something etc. the real reason is to smoke – the drug has woken them and they need a hit. smokers will often need to have a smoke before they can have a shit in the morning.
Hmm, I’ve been smoking for about 40 odd years. I’ve never been woken by nicotine craving.
>hardened smokers normally find some excuse to rise early sometimes at 4am to walk the dog, cook, prepare for something etc. the real reason is to smoke – the drug has woken them and they need a hit. smokers will often need to have a smoke before they can have a shit in the morning.
Hmm, I’ve been smoking for about 40 odd years. I’ve never been woken by nicotine craving.
>hardened smokers normally find some excuse to rise early sometimes at 4am to walk the dog, cook, prepare for something etc. the real reason is to smoke – the drug has woken them and they need a hit. smokers will often need to have a smoke before they can have a shit in the morning.
Hmm, I’ve been smoking for about 40 odd years. I’ve never been woken by nicotine craving.
hardened drug users like alcoholics will have their own habits they have formed
a hardened user of alcohol will gag and vomit a little when they clean their teeth or drink something other than alcohol, normally you’ll see this when you watch them
there are two types of hardened drinker
those who will try to drink at all hours of the day and those who discipline themselves to weekends and afternoon/ evening. some of them will buy a slab of beer and lock themselves away. normally around 3.30 you should try to stay away from them in a work situation because they get edgy and start losing control.
the ones who drink at all hours normally find it hard to hold down any kind of job, the disciplined ones will manage to hold onto a job but they will need an hour will
hardened drug users like alcoholics will have their own habits they have formed
a hardened user of alcohol will gag and vomit a little when they clean their teeth or drink something other than alcohol, normally you’ll see this when you watch them
there are two types of hardened drinker
those who will try to drink at all hours of the day and those who discipline themselves to weekends and afternoon/ evening. some of them will buy a slab of beer and lock themselves away. normally around 3.30 you should try to stay away from them in a work situation because they get edgy and start losing control.
the ones who drink at all hours normally find it hard to hold down any kind of job, the disciplined ones will manage to hold onto a job but they will need an IRON will
>hardened smokers normally find some excuse to rise early sometimes at 4am to walk the dog, cook, prepare for something etc. the real reason is to smoke – the drug has woken them and they need a hit. smokers will often need to have a smoke before they can have a shit in the morning.
Hmm, I’ve been smoking for about 40 odd years. I’ve never been woken by nicotine craving.
you are in the minority
no
I was quite surprised to be wakened at 5 AM in a dark cave by a man crawling the walls waiting for a shop to open to sell him a packet of cigarettes. I’d warned him that we were going bush and that he needed to bring the pre-requisites.
I told him.. “no use. This is Sunday and the only shop in town does not open until 9 AM.”
marajuana smokers will find it hard to hold down a job
half of them go off the rails and start smoking in a hardcore way and end up frying their brains, you meet these poor bastards at tafe trying to get their lives together. at lunchtime you can go with them and watch them suck down a cone in perhaps a few seconds (which is amazing to watch, the air rushing past will burn the MJ at a rapid rate)
the other type of smoker will typically smoke at least every day/ every other day, typically they will be able to hold down a job but they will typically be scatty. they will always try to recruit others to their past time ie to sell drugs to others to fund their own habit. drug dealers will typically be users/hardened users. these fellahs cen be very chatty and laid back.
the fellahs who sell the pills will be very chatty and likeable – this helps them to recruit people to their habit and thus support their habit. there was a fellah who was an apprentice and dealing drugs at the same time. he showed me his huge bag of pills which must have been worth at least 5000 dollars. usually the signs of someone on pills and other drugs will be the inability to go to work at the same time every day – they will slip up on a regular basis and be late or not turn up.
heroin dealers can be very chatty but depending on their market – if you are selling upmarket you need to have some reasonable manner and look. if you are selling to the poor saps who have destroyed their life via heroin you can stand in kings cross wearing the scruffiest clothing and be relatively rude to your customer (you’ll normally know them relatively well by then)
marajuana smokers will find it hard to hold down a job
half of them go off the rails and start smoking in a hardcore way and end up frying their brains, you meet these poor bastards at tafe trying to get their lives together. at lunchtime you can go with them and watch them suck down a cone in perhaps a few seconds (which is amazing to watch, the air rushing past will burn the MJ at a rapid rate)
the other type of smoker will typically smoke at least every day/ every other day, typically they will be able to hold down a job but they will typically be scatty. they will always try to recruit others to their past time ie to sell drugs to others to fund their own habit. drug dealers will typically be users/hardened users. these fellahs cen be very chatty and laid back.
the fellahs who sell the pills will be very chatty and likeable – this helps them to recruit people to their habit and thus support their habit. there was a fellah who was an apprentice and dealing drugs at the same time. he showed me his huge bag of pills which must have been worth at least 5000 dollars. usually the signs of someone on pills and other drugs will be the inability to go to work at the same time every day – they will slip up on a regular basis and be late or not turn up.
heroin dealers can be very chatty but depending on their market – if you are selling upmarket you need to have some reasonable manner and look. if you are selling to the poor saps who have destroyed their life via heroin you can stand in kings cross wearing the scruffiest clothing and be relatively rude to your customer (you’ll normally know them relatively well by then)
marajuana smokers will find it hard to hold down a job
half of them go off the rails and start smoking in a hardcore way and end up frying their brains, you meet these poor bastards at tafe trying to get their lives together. at lunchtime you can go with them and watch them suck down a cone in perhaps a few seconds (which is amazing to watch, the air rushing past will burn the MJ at a rapid rate)
the other type of smoker will typically smoke at least every day/ every other day, typically they will be able to hold down a job but they will typically be scatty. they will always try to recruit others to their past time ie to sell drugs to others to fund their own habit. drug dealers will typically be users/hardened users. these fellahs cen be very chatty and laid back.
the fellahs who sell the pills will be very chatty and likeable – this helps them to recruit people to their habit and thus support their habit. there was a fellah who was an apprentice and dealing drugs at the same time. he showed me his huge bag of pills which must have been worth at least 5000 dollars. usually the signs of someone on pills and other drugs will be the inability to go to work at the same time every day – they will slip up on a regular basis and be late or not turn up.
heroin dealers can be very chatty but depending on their market – if you are selling upmarket you need to have some reasonable manner and look. if you are selling to the poor saps who have destroyed their life via heroin you can stand in kings cross wearing the scruffiest clothing and be relatively rude to your customer (you’ll normally know them relatively well by then)
you haven’t seen the half of it.
i’ve never really gone out of my way to know their lifestyle but when i bump into i wring them dry for my own information so i can recognise them in other guises.
in my experience anyone on drugs aren’t in control of themsleves, they need to tell themselves a story to justify their behaviour
marajuana smokers will find it hard to hold down a job
half of them go off the rails and start smoking in a hardcore way and end up frying their brains, you meet these poor bastards at tafe trying to get their lives together. at lunchtime you can go with them and watch them suck down a cone in perhaps a few seconds (which is amazing to watch, the air rushing past will burn the MJ at a rapid rate)
the other type of smoker will typically smoke at least every day/ every other day, typically they will be able to hold down a job but they will typically be scatty. they will always try to recruit others to their past time ie to sell drugs to others to fund their own habit. drug dealers will typically be users/hardened users. these fellahs cen be very chatty and laid back.
the fellahs who sell the pills will be very chatty and likeable – this helps them to recruit people to their habit and thus support their habit. there was a fellah who was an apprentice and dealing drugs at the same time. he showed me his huge bag of pills which must have been worth at least 5000 dollars. usually the signs of someone on pills and other drugs will be the inability to go to work at the same time every day – they will slip up on a regular basis and be late or not turn up.
heroin dealers can be very chatty but depending on their market – if you are selling upmarket you need to have some reasonable manner and look. if you are selling to the poor saps who have destroyed their life via heroin you can stand in kings cross wearing the scruffiest clothing and be relatively rude to your customer (you’ll normally know them relatively well by then)
you haven’t seen the half of it.
i’ve never really gone out of my way to know their lifestyle but when i bump into i wring them dry for my own information so i can recognise them in other guises.
in my experience anyone on drugs aren’t in control of themsleves, they need to tell themselves a story to justify their behaviour
>taking a shit without the action of smoking is probably a good way of helping you get off it because you are removing the rigmarole of the smoke
Ooo, I must be close to giving up then, as I haven’t sat down on the bog and had a smoke in about…ooo…40 odd years.
i have smelt smokers showering whilst SHOWERING, they’ll stand there having a smoke whilst washing
hardened smokers will smoke when having a shit, you see all the burns on surfaces around the toilet.
We are not arguing that everyone doesn’t.. We are simply saying that your selection is of too few.
no hardened smokers/drinkers/other drug users all have the same modified behaviour its just a little more subtle based on the type of drug
smokers will always make sure they have supplies, its a sad sight to see when they don’t
i’d like to be paid to break these hardened smokers, i’d dump them in the desert in an armoured vehicle then laugh , haranguing them and cursing them at them as they go cold turkey. they won’t like me but in a few weeks i’d have broken their mind and make them think twice about smoking.
i’ve never really gone out of my way to know their lifestyle but when i bump into i wring them dry for my own information so i can recognise them in other guises.
in my experience anyone on drugs aren’t in control of themsleves, they need to tell themselves a story to justify their behaviour
i have smelt smokers showering whilst SHOWERING, they’ll stand there having a smoke whilst washing
hardened smokers will smoke when having a shit, you see all the burns on surfaces around the toilet.
We are not arguing that everyone doesn’t.. We are simply saying that your selection is of too few.
no hardened smokers/drinkers/other drug users all have the same modified behaviour its just a little more subtle based on the type of drug
smokers will always make sure they have supplies, its a sad sight to see when they don’t
i’d like to be paid to break these hardened smokers, i’d dump them in the desert in an armoured vehicle then laugh , haranguing them and cursing them at them as they go cold turkey. they won’t like me but in a few weeks i’d have broken their mind and make them think twice about smoking.
You do know that you can hire professionals to do the job?
i’ve never really gone out of my way to know their lifestyle but when i bump into i wring them dry for my own information so i can recognise them in other guises.
in my experience anyone on drugs aren’t in control of themsleves, they need to tell themselves a story to justify their behaviour
You are telling the story.
or whatever story you need to tell yourself
I’m only listening. Though I’ve heard it all before.
As to the OP, I’d say it would be very difficult for me, as a hardened smoker, to sort out the difference between a physiological or a psychological effect.
I do know that I smoke in greater amounts whenever I’m under stress, or when I need to do some deep thinking. On the other hand, I also smoke way more when I’m drinking, and I’m normally not under stress, or attempting any newtonian mind feats whilst I have a pint of Guinness in my hand.
As to the OP, I’d say it would be very difficult for me, as a hardened smoker, to sort out the difference between a physiological or a psychological effect.
I do know that I smoke in greater amounts whenever I’m under stress, or when I need to do some deep thinking. On the other hand, I also smoke way more when I’m drinking, and I’m normally not under stress, or attempting any newtonian mind feats whilst I have a pint of Guinness in my hand.
so let me get this straight… you smoke the least when you are when you are not thinking about work or the family, not stressed and sober…
>“An ex-smoker will be better at being calm and controlled and relaxed than a never-have-smoked non-smoker”?
?
Don’t know how you could possibly draw that conclusion. An ex-smoker will, at best, achieve pre-smoking levels of mood control. But for several weeks before that, they’ll be struggling to control their moods, once they’re off the nicotine.
Nowhere have I suggested that ex-smokers are better at mood control than non-smokers. One of the reasons I’m considering taking up vaping is because the nicotine intake will potentially offer better micro-management of moods than I normally enjoy as an ex-smoker.
All these things are of course enormously subjective, and different people can respond to chemical stimuli in very different ways. But there’s no doubt that nicotine has real cognitive effects, and that these are usually experienced as positive, and used in versatile ways by people who take up nicotine as a habit.
I went through a quite extensive period, during which i doubt that i would have qualified as ‘sober’ at any hour of any day.
I didn’t smoke at all during that period.
True, i didn’t smoke before or after that period, but i certainly didn’t smoke during it. Can we infer from this that there may be no relationship between the two things?
One can have a generally positive state of mind but benefit from help in concentrating or relaxing at various points during one’s day. It’s not an obscure or difficult concept.
One can have a generally positive state of mind but benefit from help in concentrating or relaxing at various points during one’s day. It’s not an obscure or difficult concept.
It’s called, in psychological/neurological parlance, self-medicating with stimulants, getting that limbic system cranked for the reward and finding motivation through neurotransmitters.
“micromanagement” is a business term or controlling the finest details (of others), usually for how a manager will interact with subordinate staff.. or how the gubmint nannies teh people. I challenge you to find a publication in neurobiology which uses ‘micromanagement’ when they’re discussing topics like behavioural cognition, adaptation and reinforcement, which can be tracked back to neuropharmacological action of nicotine on endogenous nicotinic receptors.
>hardened smokers normally find some excuse to rise early sometimes at 4am to walk the dog, cook, prepare for something etc. the real reason is to smoke – the drug has woken them and they need a hit. smokers will often need to have a smoke before they can have a shit in the morning.
Hmm, I’ve been smoking for about 40 odd years. I’ve never been woken by nicotine craving.
Well, yesterday I had decided that I’ll continue the vaping, but this morning, after waking up with a very sore throat and a nicotine hangover, I’ve dumped all the vaping gear in the bin and emptied the e-juice down the toilet. It seems the benefits I was hoping for – the appetite suppressant effect and mood control assistance – were kicking in, but at the price of taking on an addiction that would bring too many problems and risks of its own.
For those thinking of taking up vaping as a way of giving up smoking, it’s probably the easiest method available, but bear in mind that you’ll be maintaining your addiction and for the nicotine addict, there doesn’t seem to be any equally easy way of giving up vaping, apart from taking up smoking again.
I’m unlikely to experience any withdrawl symptoms or cravings after a few days on the puff, but I’m relieved to have made this decision now rather than after a few weeks of it.
I have NEVER woken up early to have a ciggie. but I do have one within 10 minutes (or however long it takes the jug to boil)
so you just happen to wake up and magically its not too long before you have a cigarette
i used to share a “cell” with a fellah who had the same habit
he would get up early, start the kettle up and then light the cigarette up, by the tme the kettle had boiled he had had his first cigarette for the day
personally my take on stamping out cigarette use is to supply all cigarette users that want to quit with FREE chewing gum, inhalers etc for as long as necessary.
you make it illegal for an 18 year to buy them
next year you make it illegal for a 19 year old to buy them
next year you make it illegal for a 20 year old to buy them
this doesn’t affect older users only prospective users , after the first year the market will collapse inthe new users market
personally my take on stamping out cigarette use is to supply all cigarette users that want to quit with FREE chewing gum, inhalers etc for as long as necessary.
you make it illegal for an 18 year to buy them
next year you make it illegal for a 19 year old to buy them
next year you make it illegal for a 20 year old to buy them
this doesn’t affect older users only prospective users , after the first year the market will collapse inthe new users market
Australia took the step of banning tobacco production in Australia. However they did nothing about imports.
personally my take on stamping out cigarette use is to supply all cigarette users that want to quit with FREE chewing gum, inhalers etc for as long as necessary.
you make it illegal for an 18 year to buy them
next year you make it illegal for a 19 year old to buy them
next year you make it illegal for a 20 year old to buy them
this doesn’t affect older users only prospective users , after the first year the market will collapse inthe new users market
.
That’s a seriuously good solution, wookie. I’d support that (and I am an addict).
personally my take on stamping out cigarette use is to supply all cigarette users that want to quit with FREE chewing gum, inhalers etc for as long as necessary.
you make it illegal for an 18 year to buy them
next year you make it illegal for a 19 year old to buy them
next year you make it illegal for a 20 year old to buy them
this doesn’t affect older users only prospective users , after the first year the market will collapse inthe new users market
.
That’s a seriuously good solution, wookie. I’d support that (and I am an addict).
you’ll never get rid of the problem unless you supply the drug free to existing users
whats the point of supplying a product that is just as expensive as cigarettes?
personally my take on stamping out cigarette use is to supply all cigarette users that want to quit with FREE chewing gum, inhalers etc for as long as necessary.
you make it illegal for an 18 year to buy them
next year you make it illegal for a 19 year old to buy them
next year you make it illegal for a 20 year old to buy them
this doesn’t affect older users only prospective users , after the first year the market will collapse inthe new users market
.
That’s a seriuously good solution, wookie. I’d support that (and I am an addict).
Hang on.. Mary Jane isn’t as addictive as th’baccy but the sweet leaf is illegal to all ages in most of the world
personally my take on stamping out cigarette use is to supply all cigarette users that want to quit with FREE chewing gum, inhalers etc for as long as necessary.
you make it illegal for an 18 year to buy them
next year you make it illegal for a 19 year old to buy them
next year you make it illegal for a 20 year old to buy them
this doesn’t affect older users only prospective users , after the first year the market will collapse inthe new users market
Already been done, and no need to be so complicated, no one under year x can buy ciggies.
you get rid of all production of cigarettes from the country
meaning that all cigarettes must be imported and also attract a further tax on them
if you are offering older suers the chance to pay nothing for their nicotine hit many will take it
all it means is that nicotine won’t be smoked
in the end the only place you’ll be getting them will be the chemist and you can queue up with all the methodone users and the like for your hit
.
I think that needs more work, but he intention is rightl
you’d probably just pick up a months supply in one hit
my guesses are that the users will eventually migrate away from the drug – some won’t in which case its safer with them just taking a hit with a vapour inhaler
personally my take on stamping out cigarette use is to supply all cigarette users that want to quit with FREE chewing gum, inhalers etc for as long as necessary.
you make it illegal for an 18 year to buy them
next year you make it illegal for a 19 year old to buy them
next year you make it illegal for a 20 year old to buy them
this doesn’t affect older users only prospective users , after the first year the market will collapse inthe new users market
Already been done, and no need to be so complicated, no one under year x can buy ciggies.
you get rid of all production of cigarettes from the country
meaning that all cigarettes must be imported and also attract a further tax on them
if you are offering older suers the chance to pay nothing for their nicotine hit many will take it
all it means is that nicotine won’t be smoked
in the end the only place you’ll be getting them will be the chemist and you can queue up with all the methodone users and the like for your hit
.
I think that needs more work, but he intention is rightl
you’d probably just pick up a months supply in one hit
my guesses are that the users will eventually migrate away from the drug – some won’t in which case its safer with them just taking a hit with a vapour inhaler
You know, reality bites?
What you aren’t taking into account is the fact that all you are doing is making more excuses too need a cigarette.
well you won’t be able to get a cigarette only gums and inhalers and eventually only inhalers
the gov could simply make the inhalers themselves. they could be made from some recycled carboard and a bio degradable plastic so when it gets dumped by the user it just disintegrates after a short time
the money you’d save from just stopping the act of smoking would be a small fortune
well you won’t be able to get a cigarette only gums and inhalers and eventually only inhalers
the gov could simply make the inhalers themselves. they could be made from some recycled carboard and a bio degradable plastic so when it gets dumped by the user it just disintegrates after a short time
the money you’d save from just stopping the act of smoking would be a small fortune
It is a far sight less expensive to simply include the real story about tobacco smoking in he education curriculum?
personally my take on stamping out cigarette use is to supply all cigarette users that want to quit with FREE chewing gum, inhalers etc for as long as necessary.
you make it illegal for an 18 year to buy them
next year you make it illegal for a 19 year old to buy them
next year you make it illegal for a 20 year old to buy them
this doesn’t affect older users only prospective users , after the first year the market will collapse inthe new users market
Already been done, and no need to be so complicated, no one under year x can buy ciggies.
’
Yes, but what wookie’ saying, is progress it year by year. So in 20 years time, only 48 year-old people can buy ciggies. I’d reckon that’s good.
personally my take on stamping out cigarette use is to supply all cigarette users that want to quit with FREE chewing gum, inhalers etc for as long as necessary.
you make it illegal for an 18 year to buy them
next year you make it illegal for a 19 year old to buy them
next year you make it illegal for a 20 year old to buy them
this doesn’t affect older users only prospective users , after the first year the market will collapse inthe new users market
Already been done, and no need to be so complicated, no one under year x can buy ciggies.
’
Yes, but what wookie’ saying, is progress it year by year. So in 20 years time, only 48 year-old people can buy ciggies. I’d reckon that’s good.
Have you noticed some of the ages of the people arrested for cultivation of Cannabis?
personally my take on stamping out cigarette use is to supply all cigarette users that want to quit with FREE chewing gum, inhalers etc for as long as necessary.
you make it illegal for an 18 year to buy them
next year you make it illegal for a 19 year old to buy them
next year you make it illegal for a 20 year old to buy them
this doesn’t affect older users only prospective users , after the first year the market will collapse inthe new users market
Already been done, and no need to be so complicated, no one under year x can buy ciggies.
’
Yes, but what wookie’ saying, is progress it year by year. So in 20 years time, only 48 year-old people can buy ciggies. I’d reckon that’s good.
Yes, same thing without the every single year complication. Next year no one born before 1996 can buy ciggies.
having never been addcited to anything it would be hard for me to really know what someone goes through when they are addicted
but saying that, i understand that you need an alternative
you could make the first step by offering inhalers for free to existing users that would get everyone switched over to inhalers (well most of them considering that most smokers would like to get their hit for free rather than pay the tax man)
there will always be the hardcore users that will be determined to continue smoking but in the face of peer pressure of people laughing at them for paying for their smoke they’ll eventually cave in and use the inhaler.
business would save a fortune by people not going for a smoke every half hour
i couldn’t really see a market for cigarettes once you were giving the hit away for free
the only place a child would see the nicotine hit would be as a medication given in a chemist, they wouldn’t be sold in supermarkets anymore because no one would be buying them.
having never been addcited to anything it would be hard for me to really know what someone goes through when they are addicted
but saying that, i understand that you need an alternative
you could make the first step by offering inhalers for free to existing users that would get everyone switched over to inhalers (well most of them considering that most smokers would like to get their hit for free rather than pay the tax man)
there will always be the hardcore users that will be determined to continue smoking but in the face of peer pressure of people laughing at them for paying for their smoke they’ll eventually cave in and use the inhaler.
business would save a fortune by people not going for a smoke every half hour
i couldn’t really see a market for cigarettes once you were giving the hit away for free
the only place a child would see the nicotine hit would be as a medication given in a chemist, they wouldn’t be sold in supermarkets anymore because no one would be buying them.
In the case of the argument between yourself, your brain and nicotine.
The answer is.. easily sorted.. never start.
however, that was the advice given to me by my father who sat smoking while reading books for endless hours.
having never been addcited to anything it would be hard for me to really know what someone goes through when they are addicted
but saying that, i understand that you need an alternative
you could make the first step by offering inhalers for free to existing users that would get everyone switched over to inhalers (well most of them considering that most smokers would like to get their hit for free rather than pay the tax man)
there will always be the hardcore users that will be determined to continue smoking but in the face of peer pressure of people laughing at them for paying for their smoke they’ll eventually cave in and use the inhaler.
business would save a fortune by people not going for a smoke every half hour
i couldn’t really see a market for cigarettes once you were giving the hit away for free
the only place a child would see the nicotine hit would be as a medication given in a chemist, they wouldn’t be sold in supermarkets anymore because no one would be buying them.
In the case of the argument between yourself, your brain and nicotine.
The answer is.. easily sorted.. never start.
however, that was the advice given to me by my father who sat smoking while reading books for endless hours.
having never been addcited to anything it would be hard for me to really know what someone goes through when they are addicted
but saying that, i understand that you need an alternative
you could make the first step by offering inhalers for free to existing users that would get everyone switched over to inhalers (well most of them considering that most smokers would like to get their hit for free rather than pay the tax man)
there will always be the hardcore users that will be determined to continue smoking but in the face of peer pressure of people laughing at them for paying for their smoke they’ll eventually cave in and use the inhaler.
business would save a fortune by people not going for a smoke every half hour
i couldn’t really see a market for cigarettes once you were giving the hit away for free
the only place a child would see the nicotine hit would be as a medication given in a chemist, they wouldn’t be sold in supermarkets anymore because no one would be buying them.
In the case of the argument between yourself, your brain and nicotine.
The answer is.. easily sorted.. never start.
however, that was the advice given to me by my father who sat smoking while reading books for endless hours.
You see the hole in your argument yet?
your father was already heavily addicted by the sounds of it, the most he could do is try to warn you
but think of it this way
lets say he was able to use an inhaler for a few seconds and you rarely saw him use it
having never been addcited to anything it would be hard for me to really know what someone goes through when they are addicted
but saying that, i understand that you need an alternative
you could make the first step by offering inhalers for free to existing users that would get everyone switched over to inhalers (well most of them considering that most smokers would like to get their hit for free rather than pay the tax man)
there will always be the hardcore users that will be determined to continue smoking but in the face of peer pressure of people laughing at them for paying for their smoke they’ll eventually cave in and use the inhaler.
business would save a fortune by people not going for a smoke every half hour
i couldn’t really see a market for cigarettes once you were giving the hit away for free
the only place a child would see the nicotine hit would be as a medication given in a chemist, they wouldn’t be sold in supermarkets anymore because no one would be buying them.
In the case of the argument between yourself, your brain and nicotine.
The answer is.. easily sorted.. never start.
however, that was the advice given to me by my father who sat smoking while reading books for endless hours.
You see the hole in your argument yet?
.
NO
by making nicotine available to the addicts or the older people, the young are affected by their elder’s usage. It is a bit like tea and coffee. Are they really necessary to the young?
>>>>> supply all cigarette users that want to quit with FREE chewing gum,
Do you know how much chewy gum is? It’s $75 a kilo. Be cheaper to supply ‘em with free smokes.
Anyway.. it is all peddling excuses to sell people nicotine.
no what i’m saying is you remove the money aspect of it
tobacco would be relatively cheap to grow if you did it right
a vertically integrated arrangement where a gov company grows, processes and manufactures the hit and gives it free removes the cost to the existing user
if you had the opportunity to continue smoking or be given a free inhaler what would you choose – how much money would you have in your back pocket every week to spend on othe rthings?
having never been addcited to anything it would be hard for me to really know what someone goes through when they are addicted
but saying that, i understand that you need an alternative
you could make the first step by offering inhalers for free to existing users that would get everyone switched over to inhalers (well most of them considering that most smokers would like to get their hit for free rather than pay the tax man)
there will always be the hardcore users that will be determined to continue smoking but in the face of peer pressure of people laughing at them for paying for their smoke they’ll eventually cave in and use the inhaler.
business would save a fortune by people not going for a smoke every half hour
i couldn’t really see a market for cigarettes once you were giving the hit away for free
the only place a child would see the nicotine hit would be as a medication given in a chemist, they wouldn’t be sold in supermarkets anymore because no one would be buying them.
In the case of the argument between yourself, your brain and nicotine.
The answer is.. easily sorted.. never start.
however, that was the advice given to me by my father who sat smoking while reading books for endless hours.
You see the hole in your argument yet?
your father was already heavily addicted by the sounds of it, the most he could do is try to warn you
but think of it this way
lets say he was able to use an inhaler for a few seconds and you rarely saw him use it
would you be less or more inclined to try it?
kids notice everything. The first thing I noticed was that it was already in my blood and cigarette bumpers lay around me everywhere for sampling.
In the case of the argument between yourself, your brain and nicotine.
The answer is.. easily sorted.. never start.
however, that was the advice given to me by my father who sat smoking while reading books for endless hours.
You see the hole in your argument yet?
.
NO
by making nicotine available to the addicts or the older people, the young are affected by their elder’s usage. It is a bit like tea and coffee. Are they really necessary to the young?
its unlikely that existing users would encourage their children to take the inhalers up
it would be illegal to supply other people with your prescription
if you were caught you’d be made to go cold turkey for a few years
>>>>> supply all cigarette users that want to quit with FREE chewing gum,
Do you know how much chewy gum is? It’s $75 a kilo. Be cheaper to supply ‘em with free smokes.
Anyway.. it is all peddling excuses to sell people nicotine.
no what i’m saying is you remove the money aspect of it
tobacco would be relatively cheap to grow if you did it right
a vertically integrated arrangement where a gov company grows, processes and manufactures the hit and gives it free removes the cost to the existing user
if you had the opportunity to continue smoking or be given a free inhaler what would you choose – how much money would you have in your back pocket every week to spend on othe rthings?
In the case of the argument between yourself, your brain and nicotine.
The answer is.. easily sorted.. never start.
however, that was the advice given to me by my father who sat smoking while reading books for endless hours.
You see the hole in your argument yet?
your father was already heavily addicted by the sounds of it, the most he could do is try to warn you
but think of it this way
lets say he was able to use an inhaler for a few seconds and you rarely saw him use it
would you be less or more inclined to try it?
kids notice everything. The first thing I noticed was that it was already in my blood and cigarette bumpers lay around me everywhere for sampling.
my grandfather was a heavy smoker, i was never inclined to smoke, then again he didn’t make too much bones about it. the butts were never allowed to be left around and he never smoked in the house, my grandmother never touched the stuff
Anyway.. it is all peddling excuses to sell people nicotine.
no what i’m saying is you remove the money aspect of it
tobacco would be relatively cheap to grow if you did it right
a vertically integrated arrangement where a gov company grows, processes and manufactures the hit and gives it free removes the cost to the existing user
if you had the opportunity to continue smoking or be given a free inhaler what would you choose – how much money would you have in your back pocket every week to spend on othe rthings?
SSSh.. growing tobacco is illegal.
Is it still grown anywhere in Australia? I remember it in Mareeba years ago. And there were lots of farms around here that grew it in the old days.
no what i’m saying is you remove the money aspect of it
tobacco would be relatively cheap to grow if you did it right
a vertically integrated arrangement where a gov company grows, processes and manufactures the hit and gives it free removes the cost to the existing user
if you had the opportunity to continue smoking or be given a free inhaler what would you choose – how much money would you have in your back pocket every week to spend on othe rthings?
SSSh.. growing tobacco is illegal.
Is it still grown anywhere in Australia? I remember it in Mareeba years ago. And there were lots of farms around here that grew it in the old days.
It is probably grown but it is illegal to trade your stuff.
Is it still grown anywhere in Australia? I remember it in Mareeba years ago. And there were lots of farms around here that grew it in the old days.
It is probably grown but it is illegal to trade your stuff.
Commonwealth Consolidated Acts
EXCISEACT 1901 – SECT 28
Only licensed producers to produce tobacco leaf etc.
(1) A person who does not hold a producer licence must not intentionally produce material that is tobacco seed, tobacco plant or tobacco leaf knowing, or being reckless as to whether, the material is tobacco seed, tobacco plant or tobacco leaf.
Penalty:
(a) for tobacco seed or tobacco plant—2 years imprisonment or 500 penalty units; and
(b) for tobacco leaf—2 years imprisonment or the greater of:
(i) 500 penalty units; and
(ii) 5 times the amount of duty, worked out under the regulations, being the duty that would be payable if the tobacco leaf had been manufactured into excisable goods and entered for home consumption on the penalty day.
Note: See section 4AA of the Crimes Act 1914 for the current value of a penalty unit.
(2) A person who does not hold a producer licence must not produce tobacco seed, tobacco plant or tobacco leaf.
Doesn’t mean you can’t grow it, just that it could be an expensive exercise if caught.
Exactly.
Seed should be very difficult to obtain but a seed coating company sent me samples of coated seeds and guess what, they were all tobacco seeds.
everything that is inconvenient is always unrelated
as usual you miss the point. it is not whether your statement was right or wrong, as you presumed in your hubris, but that to draw such conclusion, and to hold them because you think you are infallible, with no evidence is unscientific. that is why i responded the way i did.
everything that is inconvenient is always unrelated
as usual you miss the point. it is not whether your statement was right or wrong, as you presumed in your hubris, but that to draw such conclusion, and to hold them because you think you are infallible, with no evidence is unscientific. that is why i responded the way i did.
boris, bubbles going through the dustbin to get his nicotine hit now, if you are looking for any rational behaviour from users you are sadly mistaken
