when is it time to plant potatoes in New South walse near Newcastle?

is it time to plant them now?

you are in a temperate region with frosts.
august is your best month for planting spuds.
however they need the best soil – well drained and slightly acidic with lots of potash.
so plant a green manure crop in the spud bed NOW.
throw whatever fertiliser you have over the soil and plant – barley, oats, mustard, birdseed, any old seed. wait 6-8 weeks and turn in.

pepe said:

you are in a temperate region with frosts.
august is your best month for planting spuds.
however they need the best soil – well drained and slightly acidic with lots of potash.
so plant a green manure crop in the spud bed NOW.
throw whatever fertiliser you have over the soil and plant – barley, oats, mustard, birdseed, any old seed. wait 6-8 weeks and turn in.

ok, ill put green manure seeds out now, I will need to find a bed to plant it in, bed 1 will be it and just a little bit of it as i am going to plant to lots one in ground and one out of the ground.

is Lucerne ok as a green manure by it self? because i can get 500g for $12.00.

veg gardener said:

is Lucerne ok as a green manure by it self? because i can get 500g for $12.00.

are you sure on that price? $70/k or more here.
yes – at that price a handful (or less) will do the job.

pepe said:

veg gardener said:

is Lucerne ok as a green manure by it self? because i can get 500g for $12.00.

are you sure on that price? $70/k or more here.
yes – at that price a handful (or less) will do the job.

yep that’s the price. this is where i am getting it from http://cornucopiaseeds.com.au/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=539

yep that’s the price. this is where i am getting it from http://cornucopiaseeds.com.au/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=539
———
thanks for that- i wonder why my stuff from the fodder store is so much dearer?

pepe said:

yep that’s the price. this is where i am getting it from http://cornucopiaseeds.com.au/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=539
———
thanks for that- i wonder why my stuff from the fodder store is so much dearer?

yeah they are a good seed company that i use.

pepe said:

yep that’s the price. this is where i am getting it from http://cornucopiaseeds.com.au/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=539
———
thanks for that- i wonder why my stuff from the fodder store is so much dearer?

a different grade maybe? as in A grade seed as opposed to C grade seed? $70/kg does seem alot though…

bluegreen said:

pepe said:

yep that’s the price. this is where i am getting it from http://cornucopiaseeds.com.au/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=539
———
thanks for that- i wonder why my stuff from the fodder store is so much dearer?

a different grade maybe? as in A grade seed as opposed to C grade seed? $70/kg does seem alot though…

not sure.

i thought lucerne was a warm weather green crop.
places like greenharvest website, and the diggers club magazines list the different mixes for different climes and seasons.

aquarium said:

i thought lucerne was a warm weather green crop.
places like greenharvest website, and the diggers club magazines list the different mixes for different climes and seasons.

i get them through a different seed company.

veg gardener said:

aquarium said:

i thought lucerne was a warm weather green crop.
places like greenharvest website, and the diggers club magazines list the different mixes for different climes and seasons.

i get them through a different seed company.

i’m sure that’s more economical VG, as those two i mentioned aren’t particularly cheap……point was the information regarding which green manure crop to plant when.

veg gardener said:

aquarium said:

i thought lucerne was a warm weather green crop.
places like greenharvest website, and the diggers club magazines list the different mixes for different climes and seasons.

i get them through a different seed company.

are you sure it was 500g and not 50g, VG?

veg gardener said:

aquarium said:

i thought lucerne was a warm weather green crop.
places like greenharvest website, and the diggers club magazines list the different mixes for different climes and seasons.

i get them through a different seed company.

The info’s still useful vege even if you don’t buy from them.

a different grade maybe? as in A grade seed as opposed to C grade seed? $70/kg does seem alot though…
—-
i will check – i’m thinking the hunter/hawkesbury area might be australias seed capital. they probably grow lucerne easier there than we do

bluegreen said:

veg gardener said:

aquarium said:

i thought lucerne was a warm weather green crop.
places like greenharvest website, and the diggers club magazines list the different mixes for different climes and seasons.

i get them through a different seed company.

are you sure it was 500g and not 50g, VG?

500g i read it says look on the site.

pepe said:

a different grade maybe? as in A grade seed as opposed to C grade seed? $70/kg does seem alot though…
—-
i will check – i’m thinking the hunter/hawkesbury area might be australias seed capital. they probably grow lucerne easier there than we do

yeah we grow alot of hay up here, also i get seeds from Victoria.

veg gardener said:

bluegreen said:

veg gardener said:

aquarium said:

i thought lucerne was a warm weather green crop.
places like greenharvest website, and the diggers club magazines list the different mixes for different climes and seasons.

i get them through a different seed company.

are you sure it was 500g and not 50g, VG?

500g i read it says look on the site.

fair enough :)

the winter garden 2008 diggers catalogue has info on green manures. it’s available via their website as a pdf download.
here’s the extract about lucerne as green manure:
“Lucerne should be sown in spring or summer. this perennial is cut down when it starts to flower. the cut lucerne can then be used as a mulch for your garden, a much cheaper alternative to buying bales of alfalfa hay!
lucerne has much deeper roots than vegetable plants, and these roots tap into the nutrients and water the vegetables can’t access, and so makes them available for the vegetables.
lucerne also provides your vegetables with valuable amounts of nitrogen
400gms covers 200sqm.
retail $10, club $8.80”

afaik lucerne also improves sodic soil, helping to aerate it.

for winter green manures you probably want a mix with mustard, clover, field peas, and wheat/rye/barley

I was just asking Mr D last night where I might scrounge some seeds , he pointed in the direction of the sorghum silos (massive HUGE mounds – about the size of a block of two-storey buildings each) and told me to go scrounge there…I’ll buy a pack of birdseed as well…thanks for the tip…

My potato looks wilted this morning!

It was lovely yesterday, I thought the rain would do it good, but this morning is bright and sunny, 35C in the sun, the mound of hay / compost is 2/3 metre tall, the leaves just poke out of that…

Should I worry? Maybe I’ll put a shadecloth over it for the time being…there was a fog this AM, Sonny Joe (14y o) came out and in an awed tone advised me that “there was a massive fire out there, had I seen the smoke?”…so I said go out and sniff, I think you will find it is a fog…50m visibility…but that’s by the bye…he can only recall seeing one fog before, but we get a couple after rain during the winter..

the mound of hay / compost is 2/3 metre tall, the leaves just poke out of that…
———
come again?
are you growing this spud in a 2-3 metre high mound?
thats higher than your head?
won’t the heap subside a lot?
i’m not sure – but wilt is not a good sign.

pepe said:

the mound of hay / compost is 2/3 metre tall, the leaves just poke out of that…
———
come again?
are you growing this spud in a 2-3 metre high mound?
thats higher than your head?
won’t the heap subside a lot?
i’m not sure – but wilt is not a good sign.

LOLOLOLOL!

No, Pepe, the mound is two thirds of a metre high.

:)

two thirds = 2/3

two to three metres (AFAIK) = 2 – 3

I have been adding to the heap as the plant grows, just enough to fit under the leaves with a bit to spare…for a while the heap was to the top of the leaves with a space for the plant in the middle, but the leaves are starting to get bigger and spread out more…

I have been adding to the heap as the plant grows, just enough to fit under the leaves with a bit to spare…for a while the heap was to the top of the leaves with a space for the plant in the middle, but the leaves are starting to get bigger and spread out more…

That’s confusing isn’t it?

OK, when the potato plant was just starting out, I added the compost/hay combo to the top of the plant, but leaving about 1 to 2 inches around the plant clear. The plant was lightly sprinkled with hay straw to protect it from the sun.

However, the potato plant has reached the stage where its leaves are getting larger and spreading more like a tree, so I have only been adding the straw/compost combo to fit under the canopy, and yesterday I pushed the combo closer to the stalk of the plant as there were little thingys trying to grow from the stalk…

Today, I removed the leaf that looked dried out, and have placed a plastic laundry basket on top of the mound. This will keep the worst of the sun off but will allow the breeze through…

i get the picture now.
i don’t know how to stop wilt. the ‘dry’ leaf might signify nothing at all.
leafy growth is not necessarily good – you want tubers. if you can sprinkler sulphate of potash over the mulch and water it in with seaweed tea then that might help tubers to form.
geez its hot up your way – 35 – phew.

pepe said:

i get the picture now.
i don’t know how to stop wilt. the ‘dry’ leaf might signify nothing at all.
leafy growth is not necessarily good – you want tubers. if you can sprinkler sulphate of potash over the mulch and water it in with seaweed tea then that might help tubers to form.
geez its hot up your way – 35 – phew.

Pepe, that 35C is the thermometer in the sun, it’s in the 20s in the shade…the same kind of situation where the thermometer hits 50C in the sun in summer, but it’s only the mid 30’s in the shade…

I’ve got Sir Charles Carp…will he help?

Would wood ashes be OK to sprinkle over the heap??? (instead of sulphate of potash…)

Greetings.
Hey BG. Them’s savage dogs hey!

Longy said:

Greetings.
Hey BG. Them’s savage dogs hey!

Poor crocodile, it didn’t stand a chance

;D

Hi All, but I’ve GTG….

Longy said:

Greetings.
Hey BG. Them’s savage dogs hey!

oh yeah, as savage as they come, lol!

Longy said:

Greetings.
Hey BG. Them’s savage dogs hey!

Should have them put down if ya ask me;P

pepe said:

i get the picture now.
i don’t know how to stop wilt. the ‘dry’ leaf might signify nothing at all.
leafy growth is not necessarily good – you want tubers. if you can sprinkler sulphate of potash over the mulch and water it in with seaweed tea then that might help tubers to form.
geez its hot up your way – 35 – phew.

How do I know if it’s growing tubers? I thought the plant grew and then threw out tubers into the straw/soil???

Starting to think I should pull it out in the interests of a learning experience, and find out what it’s done up to now…The straw is very dry down around the ground level…maybe I should water the straw well, after laying down some wood ashes to be washed through the straw…

This potato has been growing for about 6 – 8 weeks now…

if it is dry at ground level, then I think a good watering is called for.

bluegreen said:

if it is dry at ground level, then I think a good watering is called for.

Thanks BlueGreen…show public holiday tomorrow, so I’ll do it then…

Trying to string up some curtains with that tight coiled spring stuff…might have to go to hardware and buy new pliers to cut it with, plus new “heyes” to insert into either end of spring…

you can gently investigate with hands…starting from about 20-30cm away from the stem and digging slowly into the (deeper) soil. potato tubers generally develop about original planting level, e.g. 10-20cm down. if you run into any new tubers, then they’re definitely developing. in any case, there’s really no such thing as potato plants and no potatoes beneath. there’s no hurry to harvest them unless the soil is very wet, which will cause them to rot. some people take early pickings of some tubers, and this is called robbing.
i’ve used compost last year to mound up the plants, and watered a few times as it was dry on top — big mistake — as the moisture caused the fungal disease to the foliage that shows up as angular translucent “windows”. i harvested early but still got a good crop of beaut spuds. anyway….keep the soil fairly dry.
potatoes are prone to several fungal diseases, all brought about by moisture.

I’ve got Sir Charles Carp…will he help? Would wood ashes be OK to sprinkle over the heap??? (instead of sulphate of potash…)
—-
- yes to wood ash – although its alkaline and spuds like acid
- no to sir charles – nitrogen is not particularly useful as it encourages leaf not tuber
- yes to water – but i wonder how much rain you just had?

they mature after about 12 – 16 weeks – so you’re half way through. the tops die off when they are finished.
g’day aquarium – we call it bandicooting – you use a trowel to carefully move soil from the outside of the mound until you find a tuber.

Many thanks, Aquarium and Pepe

I was thinking maybe I could take your advice one step further, and use seaweed extract and sulf of pot for the tomatoes as well, as they are very leafy but not much fruit…I should add that the hay/straw is 1:1:2 of alfalfa lucerne mulch:sugarcane mulch:good quality purchased compost (Searles).

Not sure how much rain we had, it fell in a very soaking way and our driveway has deep ruts again (but we all drive in the same rut if we can so that’s that damage contained)…I was surprised that parts of this garden were not good and damp after 4” into the soil depth…lousy moisture profile…I think we may have got at least 1” (25 mls?) over a couple of days…in a moment of madness I bought some soil wetting agent which is supposed to be aquatic creature (including frogs) suitable…have you come across this?

Hi Dinetta,

I’ve seen the wetting agent with the frog picture on the packaging. i’ve been using bentonite (a kind of volcanic clay) to improve my soil wetting and water holding capacity. it works long term but, here in the city/burbs, it is a little expensive. it’s a totally natural/organic input that you can buy in bags at Bunnings under the product name “Wetta soil and garden” by Munns. I think it’s available in bulk, as it is also used as a dam/pond waterproofing fill-in when a membrane is not used. it’s also used as a filler in some farm animal food, as it contains some minerals.

Hi Aquarium

My wetting agent is from RichGro…I’ve yet to look up their website

All the leaves fell off my potato, so I dug down and there is one minute tuber, I recovered it and put half a toilet roll holder around the now-leafless stem…will need to buy the kelp stuff SOOOOON…

http://www.turffarm.com.au/wetting-agent.htm
====================================

Here is the RichGro® website for that wetting agent: I see where it is (a the time of publication of the website) the only brand of wetting agent in Australia with the Smart Approved Watermark…or similar…down the bottom of the page if you are interested…

Dinetta said:

Hi Aquarium

My wetting agent is from RichGro…I’ve yet to look up their website

All the leaves fell off my potato, so I dug down and there is one minute tuber, I recovered it and put half a toilet roll holder around the now-leafless stem…will need to buy the kelp stuff SOOOOON…

which reminds me – the mustard seed was ‘mr fothergills sprouts’. if aquarium sees this?
what are you doing with this poor spud dinetta? let it rest in peace now.

no no, i’m going to keep on keeping on

get as much learning as i can with this one

I sure miss sarah’s mum…..

:(

the deal with potatoes is they like a bit of moisture initially but, as the plants grow it’s best to keep it to minimum, which can be hard to judge and not overwater if growing them in straw etc. i reckon grow them the conventional way in soil first, before attempting the straw layered cake approach. they will grow well in soil that hasn’t even been enriched in any way, as long as the soil does not get waterlogged easily.
potato plants can go a bit prostrate, especially if there’s been rain and/or wind about. they will grow thru it, as long as there’s no sign of rot/disease.

as far as wetting agents are concerned….the verdict is still out whether the crystal wetting agents provide adequate moisture for plants. just because these wetting agents swell up with water, doesn’t mean that it does anything for the plants. horrible clay or even plain salt also absorb loads of water but, it ain’t available to the plants the right way. bentonite is a quick, effective, and longer term solution….results in my place have been quite amazing.

in any case….hope you manage to grow some good spuds. own grown tastes best. waxy spuds are great.

aquarium said:

the deal with potatoes is they like a bit of moisture initially but, as the plants grow it’s best to keep it to minimum, which can be hard to judge and not overwater if growing them in straw etc. i reckon grow them the conventional way in soil first, before attempting the straw layered cake approach. they will grow well in soil that hasn’t even been enriched in any way, as long as the soil does not get waterlogged easily.
potato plants can go a bit prostrate, especially if there’s been rain and/or wind about. they will grow thru it, as long as there’s no sign of rot/disease.

as far as wetting agents are concerned….the verdict is still out whether the crystal wetting agents provide adequate moisture for plants. just because these wetting agents swell up with water, doesn’t mean that it does anything for the plants. horrible clay or even plain salt also absorb loads of water but, it ain’t available to the plants the right way. bentonite is a quick, effective, and longer term solution….results in my place have been quite amazing.

in any case….hope you manage to grow some good spuds. own grown tastes best. waxy spuds are great.

Thank’s for the info Aquarium .. very good advice. I’ve learn a lot from your’s ,Pepe’s and other’s information and advice column.
So far it;s: spuds on, spuds off, now on again..I get to wallow in my female disposition of changing my mind a lot LOL.
Love it :D

aquarium said:

the deal with potatoes is they like a bit of moisture initially but, as the plants grow it’s best to keep it to minimum, which can be hard to judge and not overwater if growing them in straw etc. i reckon grow them the conventional way in soil first, before attempting the straw layered cake approach. they will grow well in soil that hasn’t even been enriched in any way, as long as the soil does not get waterlogged easily.
potato plants can go a bit prostrate, especially if there’s been rain and/or wind about. they will grow thru it, as long as there’s no sign of rot/disease.

as far as wetting agents are concerned….the verdict is still out whether the crystal wetting agents provide adequate moisture for plants. just because these wetting agents swell up with water, doesn’t mean that it does anything for the plants. horrible clay or even plain salt also absorb loads of water but, it ain’t available to the plants the right way. bentonite is a quick, effective, and longer term solution….results in my place have been quite amazing.

in any case….hope you manage to grow some good spuds. own grown tastes best. waxy spuds are great.

Just thought I’d ask you Aqua. If Bentonite is clay how does it help clay soil? The product sounds good and you certainly sound convinced but I can’t understand how clay can improve clay.

Just thought I’d ask you Aqua. If Bentonite is clay how does it help clay soil? The product sounds good and you certainly sound convinced but I can’t understand how clay can improve clay
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I’ve been wondering that also, would it be something to do with the structure of the clay? Not all clays are alike, apparently, in that Gypsum will re-structure some but not other clays…

some clays (i had some) are quite silty, and the top layer turns to a dust when dry…while underneath the clay is waterlogged and doesn’t let roots breathe. an application of both gypsum and bentonite (or similar) helps to both open up the structure without losing water holding capacity.
i’m sure i only know a tiny bit of it all. Can only go by my account and what i’ve read from others’ experience (at ALS forum.) it has to be dug through well into the top 10-20cm. you could always do a spot test by treating only a small section, to compare to untreated soil.

aquarium said:

some clays (i had some) are quite silty, and the top layer turns to a dust when dry…while underneath the clay is waterlogged and doesn’t let roots breathe. an application of both gypsum and bentonite (or similar) helps to both open up the structure without losing water holding capacity.
i’m sure i only know a tiny bit of it all. Can only go by my account and what i’ve read from others’ experience (at ALS forum.) it has to be dug through well into the top 10-20cm. you could always do a spot test by treating only a small section, to compare to untreated soil.

Mine is described as “self-mulching cracking black clay”…believe you me it cracks! it’s borderline ex-brigalow yellowwood and other softwood shclerpyll (?) scrub…

It comes up beautiful with gypsum and organic matter…guess I’m lucky like that….

Just thought I’d ask you Aqua. If Bentonite is clay how does it help clay soil? The product sounds good and you certainly sound convinced but I can’t understand how clay can improve clay.
—-
exactly the same question my wife asked when i bought some.
its a bit too expensive to use as a general fertiliser – unless you have sandy soil and buy it in bulk.
i’m using it as potting mix additive only. it does a remarkable job holding water so you can leave your pots for several days without worrying.

pepe said:

Just thought I’d ask you Aqua. If Bentonite is clay how does it help clay soil? The product sounds good and you certainly sound convinced but I can’t understand how clay can improve clay.
—-
exactly the same question my wife asked when i bought some.
its a bit too expensive to use as a general fertiliser – unless you have sandy soil and buy it in bulk.
i’m using it as potting mix additive only. it does a remarkable job holding water so you can leave your pots for several days without worrying.

Now that sounds like good advice there Pepe. Only in the pots hey?