Hi all,

I have a small flower bed. when it was made, we used decent quality soil but over time it’s become quite sandy as I live on the coast. The flowers are established (I’ve planted alyssum). The soil is so sandy now that when I dump 10L of water in the same spot and dig, the soil is completely dry 2mm below the surface even though I’ve just watered it seconds ago.

How can I introduce more quality soil to lessen the sandiness?

Needs mulch over time. I like peastraw myself, as it breaks up fairly quickly and just rots into the ground. Sometimes you have to pull out pea plants that have germinated. You would have access to sugar cane mulch too?

buffy said:

Needs mulch over time. I like peastraw myself, as it breaks up fairly quickly and just rots into the ground. Sometimes you have to pull out pea plants that have germinated. You would have access to sugar cane mulch too?

Yep needs mulch continuously reapplied. Cow manure is good.

However one needs to realise that though sand may dry at the surface, it in itself is one of the best mulches and moisture retention materials. Dig a little deeper and the sand will have moisture when other soils are dust.

I was going to say “mulch”…cow manure builds good tilth in the soil…try to mix the mulches as well, as in, apply a variety over time…if you can’t get pea straw (I can’t) alfalfa lucerne can also be your friend…

As the others have said, mulch, mulch, mulch.

Well composted cow and horse poo is good Just keep mulching.

I don’t think it’s possible to add too much organic material to sand.

I’m prefer something a little less on the nose than manure as the flower bed is right under the bedroom window :)

You can actually use shredded paper, as long as you damp it down and put something like straw on top to stop it blowing away.

Divine Angel said:

I’m prefer something a little less on the nose than manure as the flower bed is right under the bedroom window :)

This is why they say “well-composted”…anyway the smell only lasts for a couple of days, blood and bone being an example…

Old, white (bleached) cow manure doesn’t have much of an odour, if any, ditto horse droppings that have dried out and been subjected to wind, sun and rain for about 4 – 6 weeks…

Dinetta said:

Divine Angel said:

I’m prefer something a little less on the nose than manure as the flower bed is right under the bedroom window :)

This is why they say “well-composted”…anyway the smell only lasts for a couple of days, blood and bone being an example…

Old, white (bleached) cow manure doesn’t have much of an odour, if any, ditto horse droppings that have dried out and been subjected to wind, sun and rain for about 4 – 6 weeks…

Either I’m immune from years of use but manure only smells until you water it in.

Grape marc will strip the paint off your walls at 100 paces if you stir it up with the garden fork but will settle down and make no smell after a period(which may vary)

roughbarked said:

Dinetta said:

Divine Angel said:

I’m prefer something a little less on the nose than manure as the flower bed is right under the bedroom window :)

This is why they say “well-composted”…anyway the smell only lasts for a couple of days, blood and bone being an example…

Old, white (bleached) cow manure doesn’t have much of an odour, if any, ditto horse droppings that have dried out and been subjected to wind, sun and rain for about 4 – 6 weeks…

Either I’m immune from years of use but manure only smells until you water it in.

Grape marc will strip the paint off your walls at 100 paces if you stir it up with the garden fork but will settle down and make no smell after a period(which may vary)

I’m not kidding about grape marc. It really stinks. Like many of these smelly things though there is a way of managing the smells.

Cow manure makes great liquid manure which really does grow things well but at the same time every drink of liquid manure no matter how well watered down does contain particulates which filter between grains of sand and bulk it out.

Sheep manure can be kept for long periods in bags and doesn’t smell much at all until it is re-hydrated and then only briefly. If you want stinky poo, poultry manure has to be it.

roughbarked said:

If you want stinky poo, poultry manure has to be it.

I second that, lol!

Every couple of days, I throw lime over the ground under the chookens’ roost … I find this helps keep the pong down and the flies at bay…Sawdust would have to be the best litter in a chicken coop, IMO…it kind of deodorises for months, the chooken droppings…a good thick 6” layer is what I’m speaking of…

What about sawdust for Divine Angel? I know she’d have to add high nitrogen stuff but, as a matter of interest, would it keep her sand bulked for longer?

Dinetta said:

roughbarked said:

If you want stinky poo, poultry manure has to be it.

I second that, lol!

Every couple of days, I throw lime over the ground under the chookens’ roost … I find this helps keep the pong down and the flies at bay…Sawdust would have to be the best litter in a chicken coop, IMO…it kind of deodorises for months, the chooken droppings…a good thick 6” layer is what I’m speaking of…

What about sawdust for Divine Angel? I know she’d have to add high nitrogen stuff but, as a matter of interest, would it keep her sand bulked for longer?

Sawdust works a treat if you get it odd the bottom of a stable.

Sawdust works a treat if you get it off the bottom of a stable?

roughbarked said:

Sawdust works a treat if you get it off the bottom of a stable?

Which is where I used to source mine…sadly no such stables that I know of in this town, am trying to figure how I could transport sawdust 100km…might have to re-use the feed bags…

Dinetta said:

roughbarked said:

Sawdust works a treat if you get it off the bottom of a stable?

Which is where I used to source mine…sadly no such stables that I know of in this town, am trying to figure how I could transport sawdust 100km…might have to re-use the feed bags…

no horse type clubs at all?

roughbarked said:

Dinetta said:

roughbarked said:

Sawdust works a treat if you get it off the bottom of a stable?

Which is where I used to source mine…sadly no such stables that I know of in this town, am trying to figure how I could transport sawdust 100km…might have to re-use the feed bags…

no horse type clubs at all?

Yes, horse and pony…I had a look at their stalls at the show ground at the beginning of the year, might check the local rag to see if they advertise club dates…thanks for the heads up…

mushroom compost and bentonite clay.

you get mushroom compost in bulk from landscape suppliers. it’s about $40 per trailer load.
no smell but check the pH – it should be neutral but rumour says that some of it is alkaline.
there are other organic composts sold also

bentonite clay is bought as Munn’s “wetta lawn and garden” – a $10 kilo bag cost $10? from memory.
you can use water crystals that are widely sold – but like others on this website I prefer to build up the soil with accumulating organic matter.

justin said:

mushroom compost and bentonite clay.

you get mushroom compost in bulk from landscape suppliers. it’s about $40 per trailer load.
no smell but check the pH – it should be neutral but rumour says that some of it is alkaline.
there are other organic composts sold also

bentonite clay is bought as Munn’s “wetta lawn and garden” – a $10 kilo bag cost $10? from memory.
you can use water crystals that are widely sold – but like others on this website I prefer to build up the soil with accumulating organic matter.

I’d be cautious of how much bentonite to chuck about.. on any soil.
The Water Resources Commission use it as impenetrable barriers for leaking canal repair.

I also did read, if I recall rightly, that an esteemed organic authority, his last name was Bennett(?) and he was from SA…advised that it’s OK to add sand to clay but not vice versa…however that was quite some years ago, about 40 I think, and this information may therefore be out of date…

Dinetta said:

I also did read, if I recall rightly, that an esteemed organic authority, his last name was Bennett(?) and he was from SA…advised that it’s OK to add sand to clay but not vice versa…however that was quite some years ago, about 40 I think, and this information may therefore be out of date…

such information never has a use by date unless you test it.

roughbarked said:

justin said:

mushroom compost and bentonite clay.

you get mushroom compost in bulk from landscape suppliers. it’s about $40 per trailer load.
no smell but check the pH – it should be neutral but rumour says that some of it is alkaline.
there are other organic composts sold also

bentonite clay is bought as Munn’s “wetta lawn and garden” – a $10 kilo bag cost $10? from memory.
you can use water crystals that are widely sold – but like others on this website I prefer to build up the soil with accumulating organic matter.

I’d be cautious of how much bentonite to chuck about.. on any soil.
The Water Resources Commission use it as impenetrable barriers for leaking canal repair.

fair enuff – expensive stuff and probably best in pots really. the stuff in bags tho’ mixes in and disappears – even in a pot.

justin said:

roughbarked said:

justin said:

mushroom compost and bentonite clay.

you get mushroom compost in bulk from landscape suppliers. it’s about $40 per trailer load.
no smell but check the pH – it should be neutral but rumour says that some of it is alkaline.
there are other organic composts sold also

bentonite clay is bought as Munn’s “wetta lawn and garden” – a $10 kilo bag cost $10? from memory.
you can use water crystals that are widely sold – but like others on this website I prefer to build up the soil with accumulating organic matter.

I’d be cautious of how much bentonite to chuck about.. on any soil.
The Water Resources Commission use it as impenetrable barriers for leaking canal repair.

fair enuff – expensive stuff and probably best in pots really. the stuff in bags tho’ mixes in and disappears – even in a pot.

My FiL had many common sayings.. like.. “it isn’t the heaviosity as much as the awkwardacity..”

Dinetta said:

I also did read, if I recall rightly, that an esteemed organic authority, his last name was Bennett(?) and he was from SA…advised that it’s OK to add sand to clay but not vice versa…however that was quite some years ago, about 40 I think, and this information may therefore be out of date…

he’s still the guru.- and I have his book but have not read that bit – altho he does highly recommend burying pigeon poo in trenches – which is a good way of avoiding the smell

the other peter – of the cundal genus – has dissolved bentonite in a watering can and poured it on the sand In front of the camera.

justin said:

Dinetta said:

I also did read, if I recall rightly, that an esteemed organic authority, his last name was Bennett(?) and he was from SA…advised that it’s OK to add sand to clay but not vice versa…however that was quite some years ago, about 40 I think, and this information may therefore be out of date…

he’s still the guru.- and I have his book but have not read that bit – altho he does highly recommend burying pigeon poo in trenches – which is a good way of avoiding the smell

the other peter – of the cundal genus – has dissolved bentonite in a watering can and poured it on the sand In front of the camera.

Yes but his name is also Peter.. and I agree.. awkwardacity is often offset by mixing with water.

roughbarked said:

justin said:

roughbarked said:

I’d be cautious of how much bentonite to chuck about.. on any soil.
The Water Resources Commission use it as impenetrable barriers for leaking canal repair.

fair enuff – expensive stuff and probably best in pots really. the stuff in bags tho’ mixes in and disappears – even in a pot.

My FiL had many common sayings.. like.. “it isn’t the heaviosity as much as the awkwardacity..”

there are a million different clays – from the rock hard lumps to the granular. i’m guessing the granular type would blend with sand.

justin said:

roughbarked said:

justin said:

fair enuff – expensive stuff and probably best in pots really. the stuff in bags tho’ mixes in and disappears – even in a pot.

My FiL had many common sayings.. like.. “it isn’t the heaviosity as much as the awkwardacity..”

there are a million different clays – from the rock hard lumps to the granular. i’m guessing the granular type would blend with sand.

Why not just add a clay loam?

roughbarked said:

justin said:

roughbarked said:

My FiL had many common sayings.. like.. “it isn’t the heaviosity as much as the awkwardacity..”

there are a million different clays – from the rock hard lumps to the granular. i’m guessing the granular type would blend with sand.

Why not just add a clay loam?

I’ll be back to talk about potting mixes if someone pulls up a thread about the most various possibilities for requirements.

roughbarked said:

justin said:

roughbarked said:

My FiL had many common sayings.. like.. “it isn’t the heaviosity as much as the awkwardacity..”

there are a million different clays – from the rock hard lumps to the granular. i’m guessing the granular type would blend with sand.

Why not just add a clay loam?

sounds good to me
the red alluvial sands around Mildura actually clump together when you squeeze them in your fist. so that’s an alluvial soil with both sand and clay present..

Dinetta said:

I also did read, if I recall rightly, that an esteemed organic authority, his last name was Bennett(?) and he was from SA…advised that it’s OK to add sand to clay but not vice versa…however that was quite some years ago, about 40 I think, and this information may therefore be out of date…

I thought it was the other way around…?

justin said:

roughbarked said:

justin said:

there are a million different clays – from the rock hard lumps to the granular. i’m guessing the granular type would blend with sand.

Why not just add a clay loam?

sounds good to me
the red alluvial sands around Mildura actually clump together when you squeeze them in your fist. so that’s an alluvial soil with both sand and clay present..

Kewl. I’m glad you got my point.. I’m off now to have a jam with my ex-nextdoor neighbour childhood mate who is 61 today.

♫To The Teeth | Ani DiFranco | To The Teeth♪♩

bluegreen said:

Dinetta said:

I also did read, if I recall rightly, that an esteemed organic authority, his last name was Bennett(?) and he was from SA…advised that it’s OK to add sand to clay but not vice versa…however that was quite some years ago, about 40 I think, and this information may therefore be out of date…

I thought it was the other way around…?

best to allow nature to do that mix, for you.

roughbarked said:

any common sayings.. like.. “it isn’t the heaviosity as much as the awkwardacity..”

true…

justin said:

he’s still the guru.- and I have his book but have not read that bit – altho he does highly recommend burying pigeon poo in trenches – which is a good way of avoiding the smell

Dinetta said:

Oh yes, I remember the pigeon poo “sell”…

justin said:

the other peter – of the cundal genus – has dissolved bentonite in a watering can and poured it on the sand In front of the camera.

That’s amazing, and did he show if it worked or not?

roughbarked said:

Why not just add a clay loam?

That’s what they do here, in a raised bed…

Dinetta said:

justin said:

he’s still the guru.- and I have his book but have not read that bit – altho he does highly recommend burying pigeon poo in trenches – which is a good way of avoiding the smell

Dinetta said:

Oh yes, I remember the pigeon poo “sell”…

justin said:

the other peter – of the cundal genus – has dissolved bentonite in a watering can and poured it on the sand In front of the camera.

That’s amazing, and did he show if it worked or not?

have you tried any of these techniques?

the trenching (using p.p, any compost or aged manure) feeds the roots of developing plants when combined with buried irrigation – it has worked well here.

the addition of clay to sand is not new – clay is just fine particles where sand is coarse. the river washed clays are the best for combining the drainage of one with the water retention of the other. if you puddle clay it will form bricks (as in adobe) but only certain clay/ sand combinations will do this – most of them crack. the same goes for dams – the clay has to be puddled to form a barrier to water. my soil here is clayey and I do add sand to it successfully.

Thanks everyone :)

I saw some horse poo for sale this morning… should have stopped to get some at $1/bag.