Date: 3/05/2013 16:02:21
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 305018
Subject: To criticise Islam

To criticise Islam
http://bigthink.com/against-the-new-taboo/to-criticise-islam

from the link

Here is a statement that shouldn’t result in anyone being called racist: I think religion is a particularly harmful way of viewing the world, because it encourages irrational thought, groupthink, and unhelpful, backward opinions on many issues. Replace religion with one in particular, namely Islam, and you might find yourself on the receiving end of some strange accusations. This is unhelpful to important discussions, regarding the nature of religion and harm.

more…

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 16:18:01
From: Skunkworks
ID: 305025
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Islam has the best of both worlds. They can call themselves the religion of peace and tolerance but it cannot be criticised because the tolerant and peaceful adherents cannot control the violent and intolerant adherents so therefore they plead tis safer not to criticise. Between the peaceful urging no criticism because it will incite violence and the intolerant killing people the religion of peace cannot be effectively debated cos if you do da brothers will get medieval on you. Not a bad little scam really.

A backwoods no account pastor can burn a Koran and instead of being ignored the brothers go ape shit, people die and even the Prez and Vice Prez of the US has to bend over backwards to apologise to the religion of peace and could they stop killing people please.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 17:53:24
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 305086
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Skunkworks said:


Islam has the best of both worlds. They can call themselves the religion of peace and tolerance but it cannot be criticised because the tolerant and peaceful adherents cannot control the violent and intolerant adherents so therefore they plead tis safer not to criticise. Between the peaceful urging no criticism because it will incite violence and the intolerant killing people the religion of peace cannot be effectively debated cos if you do da brothers will get medieval on you. Not a bad little scam really.

A backwoods no account pastor can burn a Koran and instead of being ignored the brothers go ape shit, people die and even the Prez and Vice Prez of the US has to bend over backwards to apologise to the religion of peace and could they stop killing people please.

from the link

Thus one can say Islam is a bad system of thought, while also agreeing that most Muslims are good people. But for some reason this seems a difficult connection to sever.

its interesting that there is a kind of dichotomy between most Muslims are good and at other end of the spectrum Muslims who act on violent beliefs

and we see that across a number of religions, perhaps in slightly different ways today, and in an historical context as well,

I can see a collection of bad ideas in a lot of religions

what troubles me are religous politicans who perhaps can act subconscouisly on some of those collections of bad ideas

if religious people can dismiss deny, ignore any contradicting evidence towards their religion

and what of religious politicians who also can dismiss deny, ignore any contradicting evidence towards their religion

and subconsciously deny, ignore any contradicting evidence that maybe economic, social or scientific or other factual indicators that is not part of their religion carried across as a learned behavior

this is what I fear, and this is what I have observed with our government

the denial or un awareness of epi-genetics concerning the politicians who voted no on gay marriage, the connection there being that epi-genetics controls genetics while a fetus is in development within the womb creating a homosexual human being

think how long it took Catholics to accept the ideas of Copernicus and Galileo

I have no problem with the gay community but look at the Catholic religion, they call homosexuals a sin, when in fact. its a natural occurrence during birth,

its difficult to visualize epigentics and genetics and all the chemicals responses going on during a birth, because we cannot see those aspects of life, they were hidden from us for many years, but look at the social damage homobobia creates

look at the damage of some christian catholic beliefs

do not wear condoms, over population in various areas, religious conversion from native beliefs, against abortion and so on

I applaud various peoples efforts in analyzing and deconstructing various religious beliefs and behaviors, but I keep in mind that these religions have a collection of good ideas as well

separating these collections of bad ideas from good ideas is a challenge for humanity

a mighty one

since people have to be thoughtful, tactful if religious family, friends are around you

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 17:57:08
From: Skeptic Pete
ID: 305088
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

THE news that Australia’s most prestigious university is allowing apartheid doesn’t shock as much as the bureaucractic response it has issued to defend the practice.

Pathetic isn’t quite the right word to describe Melbourne University’s support of an Islamic organisation that directs any human born with a vagina to go to the back of the room.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/higher-education/melbournes-hypocrisy-on-gender-naive/story-e6frgcjx-1226630187844

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 18:01:59
From: Mr Ironic
ID: 305096
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Pathetic isn’t quite the right word to describe Melbourne University’s support of an Islamic organisation that directs any human born with a vagina to go to the back of the room.
—————————————————

In your humble opinion…

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 18:35:16
From: Michael V
ID: 305158
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

From that article, it seems that Hikmah Way Institute may have hired rooms from the uni (and others too). I condemn the reported seating arringements, but I can’t see what the university could do about them. People and groups book meeting rooms all the time and rental agreements do not specify things like that. Hence the university may not have a legal leg to stand on – either to refuse the booking – or to specify seating arrangements. Seems to me like the proverbial rock and hard place conundrum.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 19:34:08
From: Skunkworks
ID: 305204
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Michael V said:


From that article, it seems that Hikmah Way Institute may have hired rooms from the uni (and others too). I condemn the reported seating arringements, but I can’t see what the university could do about them. People and groups book meeting rooms all the time and rental agreements do not specify things like that. Hence the university may not have a legal leg to stand on – either to refuse the booking – or to specify seating arrangements. Seems to me like the proverbial rock and hard place conundrum.

I sort of agree with what you say, however I can also see no problem, and in fact surprised that the university did not make explicit its policies of equality etc in its grounds. Have they condemned the arrangements and put in place policies to prevent it happening again?

I would not be surprised if they did not, its not like it is anti-American or pro Palestinian or anything. I am always amazed at the lefts ability to forgive Islamic discrimination.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:18:16
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 305323
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Skunkworks said:


I would not be surprised if they did not, its not like it is anti-American or pro Palestinian or anything. I am always amazed at the lefts ability to forgive Islamic discrimination.

Are you? I can’t say I’ve noticed it, but quite possibly it’s rife and just escaped my notice.

How do you feel about the right’s ability to forgive Christian discrimination, which I have frequently noticed?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:20:15
From: wookiemeister
ID: 305326
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

i prefer the wide spread of criticism rather than concentrate on islam alone

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:21:16
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 305327
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

And for a bit of balance, how about the left’s ability to forgive feminist discrimination?

If this had been a women’s group making men sit at the back, would anybody be complaining about it?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:22:03
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 305329
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

wookiemeister said:


i prefer the wide spread of criticism rather than concentrate on islam alone

I can agree with that.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:22:41
From: wookiemeister
ID: 305330
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

people take islam too seriously

its derived from Judaism, of course its crazy bat shit what do you expect?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:24:37
From: Skunkworks
ID: 305331
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

The Rev Dodgson said:


Skunkworks said:

I would not be surprised if they did not, its not like it is anti-American or pro Palestinian or anything. I am always amazed at the lefts ability to forgive Islamic discrimination.

Are you? I can’t say I’ve noticed it, but quite possibly it’s rife and just escaped my notice.

How do you feel about the right’s ability to forgive Christian discrimination, which I have frequently noticed?

That too should be condemned. I have no affinity with the Christian right, but I do note, as written above, it is disingenuous to say, condemn Christians for calling gayerdom for example a sin whilst saying nothing about Islam going just a bit beyond and killing them.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:25:20
From: wookiemeister
ID: 305332
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

i remember seeing sky captain and the world of tomorrow on an aircraft

i was riveted to my seat and watched it twice

then i nicked all their ideas claimed them for my own and started posting here, shouting down anyone that disagreed with me

ahhhh… good times

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:26:52
From: wookiemeister
ID: 305334
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Skunkworks said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Skunkworks said:

I would not be surprised if they did not, its not like it is anti-American or pro Palestinian or anything. I am always amazed at the lefts ability to forgive Islamic discrimination.

Are you? I can’t say I’ve noticed it, but quite possibly it’s rife and just escaped my notice.

How do you feel about the right’s ability to forgive Christian discrimination, which I have frequently noticed?

That too should be condemned. I have no affinity with the Christian right, but I do note, as written above, it is disingenuous to say, condemn Christians for calling gayerdom for example a sin whilst saying nothing about Islam going just a bit beyond and killing them.


as far as i’m aware jesus never told anyone to kill anyone

Judaism and islam are loaded with death sentences

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:32:52
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 305337
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Skunkworks said:

That too should be condemned. I have no affinity with the Christian right, but I do note, as written above, it is disingenuous to say, condemn Christians for calling gayerdom for example a sin whilst saying nothing about Islam going just a bit beyond and killing them.

Gayerdom? Do you object to the term homosexuality?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:34:57
From: Skunkworks
ID: 305339
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Witty Rejoinder said:


Skunkworks said:

That too should be condemned. I have no affinity with the Christian right, but I do note, as written above, it is disingenuous to say, condemn Christians for calling gayerdom for example a sin whilst saying nothing about Islam going just a bit beyond and killing them.

Gayerdom? Do you object to the term homosexuality?

Not really, do you object to a homosexual describing themselves as a gayer?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:35:10
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 305340
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Skunkworks said:

That too should be condemned. I have no affinity with the Christian right, but I do note, as written above, it is disingenuous to say, condemn Christians for calling gayerdom for example a sin whilst saying nothing about Islam going just a bit beyond and killing them.

Well obviously, but there is a lot of criticism of Islamic treatment of homosexuals. I’m not aware of any leftist groups saying it’s OK.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:42:56
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 305343
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Skunkworks said:

Not really, do you object to a homosexual describing themselves as a gayer?

I’ve never heard a gay person calling themselves ‘gayer’ You seem to be the only one who uses it.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:43:29
From: wookiemeister
ID: 305345
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Skunkworks said:


Witty Rejoinder said:

Skunkworks said:

That too should be condemned. I have no affinity with the Christian right, but I do note, as written above, it is disingenuous to say, condemn Christians for calling gayerdom for example a sin whilst saying nothing about Islam going just a bit beyond and killing them.

Gayerdom? Do you object to the term homosexuality?

Not really, do you object to a homosexual describing themselves as a gayer?


i can do anything gayer than you

no you can’t

yes i can

no you can’t

yes i can

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:45:00
From: Skunkworks
ID: 305349
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Witty Rejoinder said:


Skunkworks said:

Not really, do you object to a homosexual describing themselves as a gayer?

I’ve never heard a gay person calling themselves ‘gayer’ You seem to be the only one who uses it.

Copied from Matt Lucas, a famous self declared gayer.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:45:51
From: roughbarked
ID: 305352
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

wookiemeister said:


Skunkworks said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Gayerdom? Do you object to the term homosexuality?

Not really, do you object to a homosexual describing themselves as a gayer?


i can do anything gayer than you

no you can’t

yes i can

no you can’t

yes i can

Gayer.. Renee?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:46:47
From: bob(from black rock)
ID: 305354
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Religions are congenital mental diseases which can can then become virulently infectious, and are often fatal, sterilising infected areas with thermonuclear devices should stop the spread of the infection.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:49:29
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 305358
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Skunkworks said:

Copied from Matt Lucas, a famous self declared gayer.

Okay then.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:49:36
From: roughbarked
ID: 305359
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Gay \Gay\ (g), a. h, jh, steep, hasty; or cf. OHG. w?hi beatiful, good. Cf. {Jay}.]

Syn: Merry; gleeful; blithe; airy; lively; sprightly, sportive; light-hearted; frolicsome; jolly; jovial; joyous; joyful; glad; showy; splendid; vivacious.
Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:49:37
From: wookiemeister
ID: 305360
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

roughbarked said:


wookiemeister said:

Skunkworks said:

Not really, do you object to a homosexual describing themselves as a gayer?


i can do anything gayer than you

no you can’t

yes i can

no you can’t

yes i can

Gayer.. Renee?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO23WBji_Z0

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:50:03
From: Skunkworks
ID: 305361
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

And as an aside, gayer, About 1,740,000 results (0.22 seconds) first result, gayer comparative of gay (Adjective)

Adjective

1.(of a person, esp. a man) Homosexual.
2.Relating to or used by homosexuals.

maybe you need to get out more Witty?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:50:34
From: wookiemeister
ID: 305362
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

annie get your printed gun

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:51:39
From: roughbarked
ID: 305363
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

roughbarked said:


Gay \Gay\ (g), a. h, jh, steep, hasty; or cf. OHG. w?hi beatiful, good. Cf. {Jay}.

1. Excited with merriment; manifesting sportiveness or delight; inspiring delight; livery; merry. Belinda smiled, and all the world was gay. —-Pope. Gay hope is theirs by fancy fed. —Gray. 2. Brilliant in colors; splendid; fine; richly dressed. Why is my neighbor’s wife so gay? —Chaucer. A bevy of fair women, richly gay In gems and wanton dress! —Milton. 3. Loose; dissipated; lewd. Syn: Merry; gleeful; blithe; airy; lively; sprightly, sportive; light-hearted; frolicsome; jolly; jovial; joyous; joyful; glad; showy; splendid; vivacious.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:52:57
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 305365
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Skunkworks said:

maybe you need to get out more Witty?

I watch a fair bit of TV and have never heard the term used to the best of my recollection.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:53:22
From: roughbarked
ID: 305366
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Skunkworks said:


And as an aside, gayer, About 1,740,000 results (0.22 seconds) first result, gayer comparative of gay (Adjective)

Adjective

1.(of a person, esp. a man) Homosexual.
2.Relating to or used by homosexuals.

maybe you need to get out more Witty?

My dictionary doesn’t mention homosexuals as the letters G.A.Y. stand for good as you and fdon’t mean anything about homosexuals other than that they decided to write their own word from an acronym.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:54:14
From: roughbarked
ID: 305367
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Witty Rejoinder said:


Skunkworks said:

maybe you need to get out more Witty?

I watch a fair bit of TV and have never heard the term used to the best of my recollection.

They are hardly vocabulary experts on TV.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 21:57:14
From: roughbarked
ID: 305371
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Anyway.. look for a documentary about dancing boys in Afghanistan and ask yourself.. Why do Islamic fundamentalists deny homosexuality when pedophilia is practiced by their leaders?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 22:09:10
From: Dropbear
ID: 305383
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

The Rev Dodgson said:


wookiemeister said:

i prefer the wide spread of criticism rather than concentrate on islam alone

I can agree with that.

Why can’t you just agree that Islam is a silly superstition and that people should be free to criticise it without fearing violent repurcusions?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 22:09:10
From: Dropbear
ID: 305384
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

The Rev Dodgson said:


wookiemeister said:

i prefer the wide spread of criticism rather than concentrate on islam alone

I can agree with that.

Why can’t you just agree that Islam is a silly superstition and that people should be free to criticise it without fearing violent repurcusions?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 22:23:51
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 305402
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Dropbear said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

wookiemeister said:

i prefer the wide spread of criticism rather than concentrate on islam alone

I can agree with that.

Why can’t you just agree that Islam is a silly superstition and that people should be free to criticise it without fearing violent repurcusions?

I couldn’t agree with that because no-one had said it to agree with.

Obviously that is true of any religion..

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 22:25:57
From: Skeptic Pete
ID: 305405
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Dropbear said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

wookiemeister said:

i prefer the wide spread of criticism rather than concentrate on islam alone

I can agree with that.

Why can’t you just agree that Islam is a silly superstition and that people should be free to criticise it without fearing violent repurcusions?

Wow

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 22:26:07
From: Skunkworks
ID: 305406
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

The Rev Dodgson said:


Dropbear said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I can agree with that.

Why can’t you just agree that Islam is a silly superstition and that people should be free to criticise it without fearing violent repurcusions?

I couldn’t agree with that because no-one had said it to agree with.

Obviously that is true of any religion..

meh, burn a bible and compare the body count. Or draw a cartoon.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 22:29:25
From: Skeptic Pete
ID: 305409
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Skunkworks said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Dropbear said:

Why can’t you just agree that Islam is a silly superstition and that people should be free to criticise it without fearing violent repurcusions?

I couldn’t agree with that because no-one had said it to agree with.

Obviously that is true of any religion..

meh, burn a bible and compare the body count. Or draw a cartoon.

Or put a crucifix in a bottle of urine

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 22:30:54
From: Skunkworks
ID: 305410
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Skeptic Pete said:

Or put a crucifix in a bottle of urine

How many dead after that stunt?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 22:30:54
From: Skunkworks
ID: 305411
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Skeptic Pete said:

Or put a crucifix in a bottle of urine

How many dead after that stunt?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 22:31:57
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 305413
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Skunkworks said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Dropbear said:

Why can’t you just agree that Islam is a silly superstition and that people should be free to criticise it without fearing violent repurcusions?

I couldn’t agree with that because no-one had said it to agree with.

Obviously that is true of any religion..

meh, burn a bible and compare the body count. Or draw a cartoon.

What’s your point exactly?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 22:34:04
From: Skeptic Pete
ID: 305415
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Skunkworks said:


Skeptic Pete said:

Or put a crucifix in a bottle of urine

How many dead after that stunt?

None

Don’t even think there were any death threats.

I’m agreeing with you

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 22:35:44
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 305417
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Skeptic Pete said:


Skunkworks said:

Skeptic Pete said:

Or put a crucifix in a bottle of urine

How many dead after that stunt?

None

Don’t even think there were any death threats.

I’m agreeing with you

What are you agreeing with?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 22:37:23
From: Skunkworks
ID: 305418
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

The Rev Dodgson said:


What’s your point exactly?

You really are out of touch aint you? The non remarkable point is that criticising Islam is likely to result in fatwahs, burnings and deaths. The religion of peace is remarkably intolerant.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 22:42:25
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 305422
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Skunkworks said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

What’s your point exactly?

You really are out of touch aint you?

Why do you say that?

Skunkworks said:

The non remarkable point is that criticising Islam is likely to result in fatwahs, burnings and deaths. The religion of peace is remarkably intolerant.

And what does that have to do with anything I have said?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 22:44:38
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 305423
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Anyway, had enough of skunkworks replying with insults and way off target assumptions to straight questions.

G’night.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 22:45:29
From: Skunkworks
ID: 305424
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

The Rev Dodgson said:


Skunkworks said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

What’s your point exactly?

You really are out of touch aint you?

Why do you say that?

Skunkworks said:

The non remarkable point is that criticising Islam is likely to result in fatwahs, burnings and deaths. The religion of peace is remarkably intolerant.

And what does that have to do with anything I have said?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Obviously that is true of any religion..

I was pointing out that not all religions are equal in the propensity to violence.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 22:47:43
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 305426
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Skunkworks said:


I was pointing out that not all religions are equal in the propensity to violence.

Of course thy aren’t. No-one suggested they are.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 22:48:03
From: roughbarked
ID: 305427
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Skunkworks said:

I was pointing out that not all religions are equal in the propensity to violence.

Which ones are those?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 22:48:46
From: Skunkworks
ID: 305428
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

The Rev Dodgson said:


Anyway, had enough of skunkworks replying with insults and way off target assumptions to straight questions.

G’night.

What insults? What off target? I am genuinely keen to hear what of my comments you consider insulting and off target.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 22:49:24
From: roughbarked
ID: 305429
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Skunkworks said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Anyway, had enough of skunkworks replying with insults and way off target assumptions to straight questions.

G’night.

What insults? What off target? I am genuinely keen to hear what of my comments you consider insulting and off target.

Such misconceptions are common in any religious discussion.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 22:55:05
From: Skeptic Pete
ID: 305433
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

oh dear

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 22:55:50
From: roughbarked
ID: 305434
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Skeptic Pete said:


oh dear

what’s fallen apart now?

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 22:57:38
From: Skeptic Pete
ID: 305435
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

roughbarked said:


Skeptic Pete said:

oh dear

what’s fallen apart now?

This thread

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 22:57:56
From: kii
ID: 305436
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Skeptic Pete said:


oh dear

Oh dear oh dear oh dear :/

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 22:59:55
From: Skunkworks
ID: 305437
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

roughbarked said:


Skunkworks said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Anyway, had enough of skunkworks replying with insults and way off target assumptions to straight questions.

G’night.

What insults? What off target? I am genuinely keen to hear what of my comments you consider insulting and off target.

Such misconceptions are common in any religious discussion.

Hardly misconceptions, I don’t think I have said anything insulting or remarkable. If the rev wants to make the case that I was insulting or stating untruths I look forward to him putting forward his case.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 23:03:16
From: Bubblecar
ID: 305441
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Bit of a dog’s dinner in this thread :)

I’m happy to endorse a certain R. Dawkins re Islam – it’s currently the world’s most evil religion.

So what do we do about it? Well, recognising it as our duty to counter and criticise Islam might help. People “defending” Islam from an ostensibly left-liberal perspective need to be told (harshly if necessary) that there is no such meaningful perspective. Islam is an enemy of everything that the term “left-liberal” represents. Once we all understand this, the real battle may begin.

Reply Quote

Date: 3/05/2013 23:06:26
From: roughbarked
ID: 305446
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Bubblecar said:


Bit of a dog’s dinner in this thread :)

I’m happy to endorse a certain R. Dawkins re Islam – it’s currently the world’s most evil religion.

So what do we do about it? Well, recognising it as our duty to counter and criticise Islam might help. People “defending” Islam from an ostensibly left-liberal perspective need to be told (harshly if necessary) that there is no such meaningful perspective. Islam is an enemy of everything that the term “left-liberal” represents. Once we all understand this, the real battle may begin.

I’d like you to meet my mate the Mullah.

Reply Quote

Date: 4/05/2013 01:19:40
From: MartinB
ID: 305458
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

I’m happy to see Islam criticised, I’m not happy to see Islam singled out as some special evil.

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Date: 4/05/2013 01:57:55
From: sibeen
ID: 305461
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

MartinB said:


I’m happy to see Islam criticised, I’m not happy to see Islam singled out as some special evil.

Why not? No really, why not?

Is there any other religion in the world where apostates are threatened with death, and in some cases the sentence is carried out?

Is there any other religion in the world where homosexuals are threatened with death, and in some cases the sentence is carried out?

Is there any other religion in the world where rape victims are threatened with death, and in some cases the sentence is carried out?

You may even find instances where the answer to be the above three questions will be some other religious nutjobs. Westbro Baptists come to mind, animist religions in Africa may also have some aspects; but in today’s world why is it that when a terroist attack occurs the majority of poeple will think “muslim extrtemest”. In some cases these ‘majority’ will be wrong, but in the ‘majority’ of cases they’ll be spot on.

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Date: 4/05/2013 02:04:31
From: roughbarked
ID: 305462
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

sibeen said:


MartinB said:

I’m happy to see Islam criticised, I’m not happy to see Islam singled out as some special evil.

Why not? No really, why not?

Is there any other religion in the world where apostates are threatened with death, and in some cases the sentence is carried out?

Is there any other religion in the world where homosexuals are threatened with death, and in some cases the sentence is carried out?

Is there any other religion in the world where rape victims are threatened with death, and in some cases the sentence is carried out?

You may even find instances where the answer to be the above three questions will be some other religious nutjobs. Westbro Baptists come to mind, animist religions in Africa may also have some aspects; but in today’s world why is it that when a terroist attack occurs the majority of poeple will think “muslim extrtemest”. In some cases these ‘majority’ will be wrong, but in the ‘majority’ of cases they’ll be spot on.

in today’s world why is it that when a terroist attack occurs the majority of poeple will think “muslim extrtemest”…. A pity you put it that way because I was about to congratulate you on moving from Islam to Muslim extremist but somehow you still messed it up.

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Date: 4/05/2013 02:21:17
From: MartinB
ID: 305464
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Bq. Why not?

Your last para already answers this: because other faiths in this time and place produce exemplars as vile as any, and looking more broadly in time and place the comparison is even more mild. Even if it is the case that most vileness is from Radical Muslims it doesn’t actually follow that Islam is more likely to produce really bad badness.

BTW I don’t accept ‘Catholicism is good because it’s only mildly oppressive of gays’ as even close to a valid argument.

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Date: 4/05/2013 02:52:43
From: Soso
ID: 305465
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

The big difference between Islam and Christianity and Judaism is that the latter two have had to, over many centuries, adapt themselves to survive in increasingly educated, tolerant and secular societies where they have been openly subject to historical and intellectual criticism.

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Date: 4/05/2013 03:38:38
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 305466
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Soso said:


The big difference between Islam and Christianity and Judaism is that the latter two have had to, over many centuries, adapt themselves to survive in increasingly educated, tolerant and secular societies where they have been openly subject to historical and intellectual criticism.

how will Islam adapt to its followers using mobile phones and the Internet?

how will Islam adapt to worldwide intellectual criticism?

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Date: 4/05/2013 06:30:22
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 305469
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

CrazyNeutrino said:

how will Islam adapt to its followers using mobile phones and the Internet?

It varies.
Not all that long ago when I was working out of Saudi Arabia you were allowed to have a mobile phone and a camera, but not a mobile phone with a camera. The reason being that they thought that you might use the video function of the camera to look at your girlfriend/wife without all her clothes on. So any crew going into the kingdom were searched (every time) and any phones like that were taken and (mostly) handed back when you left. Same went for laptops that had inbuilt cameras.
Whenever we went in the crew bus to/from the airport if the crew was mixed then they had to drive with the internal lights all on so if anyone was ‘fooling around’ they would be seen.
Many other examples ….

CrazyNeutrino said:

how will Islam adapt to worldwide intellectual criticism?

Use the example of that Dutch cartoonist fellow who drew a cartoon of Allah with a bomb in his head gear. Has he still got a death threat upon him?

Other countries that are more progressive than Saudi Arabia (and a few others) are much easier to live in as a non-muslim but it’s still often quite difficult to get used to the different customs they have. To put it bluntly, they seem very backwards.

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Date: 4/05/2013 09:04:46
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 305485
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Skunkworks said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Anyway, had enough of skunkworks replying with insults and way off target assumptions to straight questions.

G’night.

What insults? What off target? I am genuinely keen to hear what of my comments you consider insulting and off target.

“You really are out of touch aint you? The non remarkable point is that criticising Islam is likely to result in fatwahs, burnings and deaths. The religion of peace is remarkably intolerant.”

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Date: 4/05/2013 10:22:53
From: Bubblecar
ID: 305492
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

>BTW I don’t accept ‘Catholicism is good because it’s only mildly oppressive of gays’ as even close to a valid argument.

Again, I’m inclined to agree with Dawkins, who regards Catholicism as the world’s second most evil religion, after Islam.

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Date: 4/05/2013 11:32:19
From: Dropbear
ID: 305521
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Skeptic Pete said:


Dropbear said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

I can agree with that.

Why can’t you just agree that Islam is a silly superstition and that people should be free to criticise it without fearing violent repurcusions?

Wow

Sorry to offend you, Pete..

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Date: 4/05/2013 11:33:56
From: Dropbear
ID: 305524
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

The Rev Dodgson said:


Anyway, had enough of skunkworks replying with insults and way off target assumptions to straight questions.

G’night.

I didnt see any insults..

Frankly I see any criticism of the violent followers of Islam being argued away with “well Christians do silly things too” is rather banal..

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Date: 4/05/2013 11:36:04
From: roughbarked
ID: 305527
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Dropbear said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Anyway, had enough of skunkworks replying with insults and way off target assumptions to straight questions.

G’night.

I didnt see any insults..

Frankly I see any criticism of the violent followers of Islam being argued away with “well Christians do silly things too” is rather banal..

Not when you look at some of the violence meted out by Christians.

It is best to realise that violent adherents to any cause my resort to their nature whenever their belief is criticised. I’ve been punched in the head by a physicist/athiest, too.
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Date: 4/05/2013 11:37:38
From: Dropbear
ID: 305530
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

roughbarked said:


Dropbear said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Anyway, had enough of skunkworks replying with insults and way off target assumptions to straight questions.

G’night.

I didnt see any insults..

Frankly I see any criticism of the violent followers of Islam being argued away with “well Christians do silly things too” is rather banal..

Not when you look at some of the violence meted out by Christians.

It is best to realise that violent adherents to any cause my resort to their nature whenever their belief is criticised. I’ve been punched in the head by a physicist/athiest, too.

as has been clearly demonstrated and shown, athiests and christians (now, not 100-200 years ago) are remarkably more tolerant of criticism…

maybe islam might reach that sort of enlightenment in two or three hundred years, who knows..

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Date: 4/05/2013 11:39:52
From: roughbarked
ID: 305535
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Dropbear said:


roughbarked said:

Dropbear said:

I didnt see any insults..

Frankly I see any criticism of the violent followers of Islam being argued away with “well Christians do silly things too” is rather banal..

Not when you look at some of the violence meted out by Christians.

It is best to realise that violent adherents to any cause my resort to their nature whenever their belief is criticised. I’ve been punched in the head by a physicist/athiest, too.

as has been clearly demonstrated and shown, athiests and christians (now, not 100-200 years ago) are remarkably more tolerant of criticism…

maybe islam might reach that sort of enlightenment in two or three hundred years, who knows..

Athiests have been around longer than God. Christians some 2013 years, Islam around 1400 years.

Jews and Christans have nuclear weapons.
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Date: 4/05/2013 11:40:55
From: Dropbear
ID: 305536
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

roughbarked said:


Dropbear said:

roughbarked said:

Not when you look at some of the violence meted out by Christians.

It is best to realise that violent adherents to any cause my resort to their nature whenever their belief is criticised. I’ve been punched in the head by a physicist/athiest, too.

as has been clearly demonstrated and shown, athiests and christians (now, not 100-200 years ago) are remarkably more tolerant of criticism…

maybe islam might reach that sort of enlightenment in two or three hundred years, who knows..

Athiests have been around longer than God. Christians some 2013 years, Islam around 1400 years.

Jews and Christans have nuclear weapons.

What is pakistan? chopped liver?

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Date: 4/05/2013 11:42:02
From: roughbarked
ID: 305539
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Dropbear said:


roughbarked said:

Dropbear said:

as has been clearly demonstrated and shown, athiests and christians (now, not 100-200 years ago) are remarkably more tolerant of criticism…

maybe islam might reach that sort of enlightenment in two or three hundred years, who knows..

Athiests have been around longer than God. Christians some 2013 years, Islam around 1400 years.

Jews and Christans have nuclear weapons.

What is pakistan? chopped liver?

we wish?

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Date: 4/05/2013 12:16:53
From: The Rev Dodgson
ID: 305593
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Dropbear said:


The Rev Dodgson said:

Anyway, had enough of skunkworks replying with insults and way off target assumptions to straight questions.

G’night.

I didnt see any insults..

Then you didn’t look very hard, skunkworks posted it, and at his request I have re-posted it. Unless you are making the point that I should have said “insult” rather than “insults”, which is true but somewhat pedantic.

Dropbear said:


Frankly I see any criticism of the violent followers of Islam being argued away with “well Christians do silly things too” is rather banal..

I wouldn’t call it banal, I’d call it something a good deal stronger, but since I haven’t done that I wonder why you mention it. You wouldn’t be trying to distract attention from what I actually did say would you?

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Date: 4/05/2013 12:19:30
From: roughbarked
ID: 305597
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

The Rev Dodgson said:

You wouldn’t be trying to distract attention from what I actually did say would you?

Some of us do that often. .. and get accused of talking crap. ;)

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Date: 4/05/2013 12:20:43
From: Boris
ID: 305600
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

maybe the cap fits, roughie, and you are actually talking crap.

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Date: 4/05/2013 12:26:44
From: roughbarked
ID: 305606
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Boris said:


maybe the cap fits, roughie, and you are actually talking crap.

As i said.. someone has to.

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Date: 4/05/2013 12:50:32
From: Michael V
ID: 305631
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-04/pakistan/4669454

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Date: 4/05/2013 13:01:54
From: kii
ID: 305635
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

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Date: 4/05/2013 13:02:57
From: kii
ID: 305636
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Ooops :P

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Date: 4/05/2013 13:14:47
From: Bubblecar
ID: 305644
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

If that man doesn’t have HDD (hair dysmorphic disorder) he really ought to.

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Date: 4/05/2013 13:45:22
From: wookiemeister
ID: 305666
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Soso said:


The big difference between Islam and Christianity and Judaism is that the latter two have had to, over many centuries, adapt themselves to survive in increasingly educated, tolerant and secular societies where they have been openly subject to historical and intellectual criticism.

to some extent though Judaism is totally committed to killing all gays and anyone that gets in their way- including their own kind. the only thing that has thwarted them in their aims to destroy civilisation has been the means to do it. the incarnate expression of this brutality against anyone different is Israel.

Christianity has a very bad track record there are still massacres being carried out on jesus’s name. the biggest mistake with Christianity was declaring jesus a god. the resurrection is a dodgy story. Christianity has been stymied in its aim to kill lots of people by people rejecting it and separating religion from state matters.

islam is a fairly brutal religion, it is the hyperextension of what Judaism would like to be.

you should always read what they have written though, it protects you from their aims and you might even learn from them because they have normally nicked a heap of thought from other religions or personalities.

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Date: 6/05/2013 17:22:52
From: sibeen
ID: 306772
Subject: re: To criticise Islam

Chanting “Allahu Akbar!” (“God is greatest!”) and “One point, One demand: Atheists must be hanged”, activists from the hardline Hefajat-e-Islam marched along at least six highways, blocking transport between Dhaka and other cities.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-06/22-dead-as-bangladeshi-islamists-demand-blasphemy-law/4672540

Damm, these mongrels want to hang me, just like they do to poofs.

Yes, there is a very large TIC implied in the above.

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