I have 2 pistachio trees to plant and they cost a bit to buy ($70 each) – so I need success.
I’m planting in the orchard where small mulberry and crab-apple seedlings died this summer just gone.
I need to plant them on a mound for maximum drainage so I added a wheelbarrow of manure/compost/sand/marc before forking it over.
The trouble is – I found 16 curl grubs in the 2 holes when I forked it over – and I’m pretty sure these will kill anything I attempt to grow.
Is there any way to killing the grubs (if there are some left) without poisoning the soil?
PS the chooks suggest I keep digging grubs and feeding them – but I suspect there is a sort of plague here, in the soil, and replacement grubs will keep coming.

justin said:

I have 2 pistachio trees to plant and they cost a bit to buy ($70 each) – so I need success.
I’m planting in the orchard where small mulberry and crab-apple seedlings died this summer just gone.
I need to plant them on a mound for maximum drainage so I added a wheelbarrow of manure/compost/sand/marc before forking it over.
The trouble is – I found 16 curl grubs in the 2 holes when I forked it over – and I’m pretty sure these will kill anything I attempt to grow.
Is there any way to killing the grubs (if there are some left) without poisoning the soil?
PS the chooks suggest I keep digging grubs and feeding them – but I suspect there is a sort of plague here, in the soil, and replacement grubs will keep coming.

You may need to remove and replace the soil…toss it over to the chooks for inspection / recycling, lol!

We used to get them a lot in sawdust (Dad used to get a trailer-load every year so I could practice my high jumps in the back yard…until the Dr forbade jumping for me)…but I noticed a couple in the vegetable garden in the other place…mulching might encourage them?

Dinetta said:

justin said:

I have 2 pistachio trees to plant and they cost a bit to buy ($70 each) – so I need success.
I’m planting in the orchard where small mulberry and crab-apple seedlings died this summer just gone.
I need to plant them on a mound for maximum drainage so I added a wheelbarrow of manure/compost/sand/marc before forking it over.
The trouble is – I found 16 curl grubs in the 2 holes when I forked it over – and I’m pretty sure these will kill anything I attempt to grow.
Is there any way to killing the grubs (if there are some left) without poisoning the soil?
PS the chooks suggest I keep digging grubs and feeding them – but I suspect there is a sort of plague here, in the soil, and replacement grubs will keep coming.

You may need to remove and replace the soil…toss it over to the chooks for inspection / recycling, lol!

We used to get them a lot in sawdust (Dad used to get a trailer-load every year so I could practice my high jumps in the back yard…until the Dr forbade jumping for me)…but I noticed a couple in the vegetable garden in the other place…mulching might encourage them?

thanks – how high did you jump? and was it a backflip?
and I’ve done some googling – reading (including an old GA forum).

the 2 solutions seem to be
1. ‘eco-grub’ based on tea tree oil
2. neem oil.

or keep digging and feeding to the chooks.

We have our problems with curl grubs too. Some of the biggest blighters I have ever seen.

justin said:

thanks – how high did you jump? and was it a backflip?
and I’ve done some googling – reading (including an old GA forum).

I didn’t jump very high…can’t remember…but nobody else in my age group at my school could jump higher…delicate little petals…got my come-uppance at the inter-school comps, tho’…

roughbarked said:

or keep digging and feeding to the chooks.

I dug the 2 holes again and this time got 18 grubs – groan – the chooks love me. lol.
are you 60 yet o wise one?
my wife had her 59th on the w/end.
I added zeolite to the soil.. I can get more soil, wood ash, and other organic goodies – and I can delay the planting because the trees are loosing their deciduous leaves and are in plastic bags equivalent of a 200mm pot.

justin said:

roughbarked said:

or keep digging and feeding to the chooks.

I dug the 2 holes again and this time got 18 grubs – groan – the chooks love me. lol.
are you 60 yet o wise one?
my wife had her 59th on the w/end.
I added zeolite to the soil.. I can get more soil, wood ash, and other organic goodies – and I can delay the planting because the trees are loosing their deciduous leaves and are in plastic bags equivalent of a 200mm pot.

….and one of the grubs was a small, almost invisible, juvenile. I wonder how many of those I’ve missed?

Annette McFarlane says

I gather they don’t like wet soil, so if you have the water give it a good soaking. This apparently can also force them to the surface for birds to pick off.

bluegreen said:

I gather they don’t like wet soil, so if you have the water give it a good soaking. This apparently can also force them to the surface for birds to pick off.

OK thanks BG.
I’ll make a watering hole and soak them tomorrow morning.

bluegreen said:

Annette McFarlane says

——————————————————————————
“Aside from his shed, a man’s pride around the home is often his lawn.

Hours are spent mowing, watering and fertilising a man’s precious patch so it is boast-worthy to all his mates”…
——————————————————————————

Oh, right…his. lol

Happy Potter said:

bluegreen said:

Annette McFarlane says

——————————————————————————
“Aside from his shed, a man’s pride around the home is often his lawn.

Hours are spent mowing, watering and fertilising a man’s precious patch so it is boast-worthy to all his mates”…
——————————————————————————

Oh, right…his. lol

Now that you mention it, I agree…“his” indeed…

bluegreen said:

Annette McFarlane says

I can add to that story that lawn grub moths are the ones that lay their eggs in places like under your house eaves. Up here the outside of your house can become heavily dotted with moth egg cases. Brush them down before they get a chance to hatch. We do. Mind you you’ll never get rid of them all. It’s only the eggs laid on your house that you can see.

Happy Potter said:

bluegreen said:

Annette McFarlane says

——————————————————————————
“Aside from his shed, a man’s pride around the home is often his lawn.

Hours are spent mowing, watering and fertilising a man’s precious patch so it is boast-worthy to all his mates”…
——————————————————————————

Oh, right…his. lol

LOL.

justin said:

roughbarked said:

or keep digging and feeding to the chooks.

I dug the 2 holes again and this time got 18 grubs – groan – the chooks love me. lol.
are you 60 yet o wise one?
my wife had her 59th on the w/end.
I added zeolite to the soil.. I can get more soil, wood ash, and other organic goodies – and I can delay the planting because the trees are loosing their deciduous leaves and are in plastic bags equivalent of a 200mm pot.

Belated HB wishes to your Taurean lady. :)

Still 59.. ;)

um.. Your curl grubs or scarab beetle larvae are more interested in eating the roots of grasses. The adult beetles prefer the leaves of trees.

Only one generation is produced each year. Deceptively, different larval stages are sometimes found in the soil. This is mainly due to eggs being laid at different times.

A bucket of soapy water made with a biodegradable detergent can be poured onto affected areas, encouraging the larvae and beetles to move to the surface where they might be picked off by birds.
Allowing the chooks free range will help.

Hmm. The new adults of African Black Beetles eat stems just below the surface.

http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/26_11128.htm

roughbarked said:

justin said:

roughbarked said:

or keep digging and feeding to the chooks.

I dug the 2 holes again and this time got 18 grubs – groan – the chooks love me. lol.
are you 60 yet o wise one?
my wife had her 59th on the w/end.
I added zeolite to the soil.. I can get more soil, wood ash, and other organic goodies – and I can delay the planting because the trees are loosing their deciduous leaves and are in plastic bags equivalent of a 200mm pot.

Belated HB wishes to your Taurean lady. :) Still 59.. ;)

um.. Your curl grubs or scarab beetle larvae are more interested in eating the roots of grasses. The adult beetles prefer the leaves of trees.
Only one generation is produced each year. Deceptively, different larval stages are sometimes found in the soil. This is mainly due to eggs being laid at different times.
A bucket of soapy water made with a biodegradable detergent can be poured onto affected areas, encouraging the larvae and beetles to move to the surface where they might be picked off by birds. Allowing the chooks free range will help.

thanks for the advice and the HB wishes for the Taurean.

we’ve had 45+mm since the rain started this time and I’ve added 30mm to each hole. ( the neighbour walked by as I poured the water on and said “watering?”) so i’m waiting for them to surface and I have got sufficient wire netting to cage the 2 holes if I decide to let the chookies scratch. free range here would please the two killer dogs to the east and south. the neighbours are noice but their dogs are not chook friendly.

justin said:

free range here would please the two killer dogs to the east and south. the neighbours are noice but their dogs are not chook friendly.

Bummer, that…you need a stockwhip and crack it when the dogs come near the chooks…

Dinetta said:

justin said:

free range here would please the two killer dogs to the east and south. the neighbours are noice but their dogs are not chook friendly.

Bummer, that…you need a stockwhip and crack it when the dogs come near the chooks…

the watering hasn’t brought the grubs to the surface and there’s been no bird activity.

I like limiting chook activity to certain small areas rather than have them roaming across two acres. there are foxes and a wild ginger cat here as well so the fences are protection.
but your idea of shovelling out the holes and dumping the whole cubic metre of soil in the chook run is about the only way of killing all the small ones and getting deep enough to do so.
still thinking because it is a lot of shovelling in the wet wintery weather..

justin said:

Dinetta said:

justin said:

free range here would please the two killer dogs to the east and south. the neighbours are noice but their dogs are not chook friendly.

Bummer, that…you need a stockwhip and crack it when the dogs come near the chooks…

the watering hasn’t brought the grubs to the surface and there’s been no bird activity.

I like limiting chook activity to certain small areas rather than have them roaming across two acres. there are foxes and a wild ginger cat here as well so the fences are protection.
but your idea of shovelling out the holes and dumping the whole cubic metre of soil in the chook run is about the only way of killing all the small ones and getting deep enough to do so.
still thinking because it is a lot of shovelling in the wet wintery weather..

Well I just returned from raking leaves. It seemed like a good activity on a cold day like today. Saves on heating too.

justin said:

still thinking because it is a lot of shovelling in the wet wintery weather..

Think of it as calorie burn…

…but yes, “wet wintery” is not congenial…

Speedy said:

justin said:

Dinetta said:

Bummer, that…you need a stockwhip and crack it when the dogs come near the chooks…

the watering hasn’t brought the grubs to the surface and there’s been no bird activity.
I like limiting chook activity to certain small areas rather than have them roaming across two acres. there are foxes and a wild ginger cat here as well so the fences are protection.
but your idea of shovelling out the holes and dumping the whole cubic metre of soil in the chook run is about the only way of killing all the small ones and getting deep enough to do so.
still thinking because it is a lot of shovelling in the wet wintery weather..

Well I just returned from raking leaves. It seemed like a good activity on a cold day like today. Saves on heating too.

can’t help thinking the chooks have got me well trained tho’ … lol.

justin said:

can’t help thinking the chooks have got me well trained tho’ … lol.

They’re such diligent little workers!

Dinetta said:

justin said:

can’t help thinking the chooks have got me well trained tho’ … lol.

They’re such diligent little workers!

I’ve just dumped the first barrow load in the chook run.
they don’t rush because they are not starving but they are bored. so eight of them slowly reduce the mound by scratching around the edges.
occasionally one is seen rushing around with a big curl grub in its mouth and two other hens in hot pursuit. occasionally hens will peck each other for intrusion into another’s zone.
they do find hundreds of worms, bulbs, roots and little things to peck at – which is the very thing I wanted.

justin said:

occasionally hens will peck each other for intrusion into another’s zone.

Funny that: I just saw two of mine, not exactly pecking, but disputing about a 6 inch square of dirt…

Dinetta said:

justin said:

occasionally hens will peck each other for intrusion into another’s zone.

Funny that: I just saw two of mine, not exactly pecking, but disputing about a 6 inch square of dirt…

no mash today so their enthusiasm is on the rise. I’ve emptied one of the planting holes and found another 12 grubs approx. I have forked over the next layer down in the hope the murray magpies (mudlarks, peewits) will inspect.
this second hole is about a third done and is yielding lots more – worms, cut worms, slaters and curl grubs. so as they say – enthusiasm is thru’ the roof.

justin said:

Dinetta said:

justin said:

occasionally hens will peck each other for intrusion into another’s zone.

Funny that: I just saw two of mine, not exactly pecking, but disputing about a 6 inch square of dirt…

no mash today so their enthusiasm is on the rise. I’ve emptied one of the planting holes and found another 12 grubs approx. I have forked over the next layer down in the hope the murray magpies (mudlarks, peewits) will inspect.
this second hole is about a third done and is yielding lots more – worms, cut worms, slaters and curl grubs. so as they say – enthusiasm is thru’ the roof.

At one stage in my life, I had a couple of magpie babes that someone handed to me to do something with.. after I got them through the early stages, they got up on their pins and followed me around the garden, jumping in before the chooks wherever I was digging. There was a bit of a problem with the resident magpies nesting in the closest tall gum tree but we sorted it out and they all shared the yard.

Maybe the Big Dry that Justin has just had, encouraged the current infestation?

Dinetta said:

Maybe the Big Dry that Justin has just had, encouraged the current infestation?

this place had forty year old pine trees around the perimeter when we bought it. one dry year nine of them died and had to be pulled down (2004 I think). they had curl grubs all trough them – not just in the roots. it’s difficult to know if these are dead wood eaters or just damp root eaters.
the holes i’m digging out were irrigated last summer. so i’m not sure if the good soil with dampness caused the problem or if it was the general dryness.

roughbarked said:

justin said:

Dinetta said:

Funny that: I just saw two of mine, not exactly pecking, but disputing about a 6 inch square of dirt…

no mash today so their enthusiasm is on the rise. I’ve emptied one of the planting holes and found another 12 grubs approx. I have forked over the next layer down in the hope the murray magpies (mudlarks, peewits) will inspect.
this second hole is about a third done and is yielding lots more – worms, cut worms, slaters and curl grubs. so as they say – enthusiasm is thru’ the roof.

At one stage in my life, I had a couple of magpie babes that someone handed to me to do something with.. after I got them through the early stages, they got up on their pins and followed me around the garden, jumping in before the chooks wherever I was digging. There was a bit of a problem with the resident magpies nesting in the closest tall gum tree but we sorted it out and they all shared the yard.

we’ve got a gang of magpies out the front but they never venture into this area. 50 blackbirds and 50 sparrows plus 12 new Holland honeyeaters dominate this area. the new hollands sit at the top of the carob trees and come out with loud bursts of twerping that last for thirty seconds and then stop. i have no idea why.

justin said:

it’s difficult to know if these are dead wood eaters or just damp root eaters. the holes i’m digging out were irrigated last summer. so i’m not sure if the good soil with dampness caused the problem or if it was the general dryness.

I reckon they go for dead wood, hence their presence in the sawdust for my backyard high-jump…

Back in the day, we used to put them on top of a small can, about single-serve tuna size, and a penny bunger underneath…light the penny bunger and if we did it right, there was a wet imprint of where the grub got squashed against the can by the force of the explosion…geez kids are cruel…

Dinetta said:

justin said:

it’s difficult to know if these are dead wood eaters or just damp root eaters. the holes i’m digging out were irrigated last summer. so i’m not sure if the good soil with dampness caused the problem or if it was the general dryness.

I reckon they go for dead wood, hence their presence in the sawdust for my backyard high-jump…

Back in the day, we used to put them on top of a small can, about single-serve tuna size, and a penny bunger underneath…light the penny bunger and if we did it right, there was a wet imprint of where the grub got squashed against the can by the force of the explosion…geez kids are cruel…

It is possible that they prefer acidic pH. I have alkaline soil and though I get the odd one, I never get infestations.

justin said:

the new hollands sit at the top of the carob trees and come out with loud bursts of twerping that last for thirty seconds and then stop. i have no idea why.

“A bird does not sing because it has an answer. It sings because it has a song.”
Chinese Proverb

bluegreen said:

justin said:

the new hollands sit at the top of the carob trees and come out with loud bursts of twerping that last for thirty seconds and then stop. i have no idea why.

“A bird does not sing because it has an answer. It sings because it has a song.”
Chinese Proverb

most birds sing part of a duet trio or quatro.. watch mudlarks.. one goes pee and lifts it’s wings.. the other goes wee and drops it’s wings.

butcherbirds and kookaburras.. if you listen closely.. the song is made up of more than one bird.. they sing parts of the whole song to make it stereo-quintaphonic.

bluegreen said:

justin said:

the new hollands sit at the top of the carob trees and come out with loud bursts of twerping that last for thirty seconds and then stop. i have no idea why.

“A bird does not sing because it has an answer. It sings because it has a song.”
Chinese Proverb

i like it but – a song has a meaning – probably telling me get out of their territory – in a very chirpy manner.

roughbarked said:

Dinetta said:

justin said:

it’s difficult to know if these are dead wood eaters or just damp root eaters. the holes i’m digging out were irrigated last summer. so i’m not sure if the good soil with dampness caused the problem or if it was the general dryness.

I reckon they go for dead wood, hence their presence in the sawdust for my backyard high-jump…

Back in the day, we used to put them on top of a small can, about single-serve tuna size, and a penny bunger underneath…light the penny bunger and if we did it right, there was a wet imprint of where the grub got squashed against the can by the force of the explosion…geez kids are cruel…

It is possible that they prefer acidic pH. I have alkaline soil and though I get the odd one, I never get infestations.

nup – pH of about 8.5 in the planting holes in question.

justin said:

bluegreen said:

justin said:

the new hollands sit at the top of the carob trees and come out with loud bursts of twerping that last for thirty seconds and then stop. i have no idea why.

“A bird does not sing because it has an answer. It sings because it has a song.”
Chinese Proverb

i like it but – a song has a meaning – probably telling me get out of their territory – in a very chirpy manner.

Birds care little about us if we don’t show a threatening manner to them. Quite the opposite, they get over their fears and become inquisitive about what we may disturb that they may eat.

justin said:

roughbarked said:

Dinetta said:

I reckon they go for dead wood, hence their presence in the sawdust for my backyard high-jump…

Back in the day, we used to put them on top of a small can, about single-serve tuna size, and a penny bunger underneath…light the penny bunger and if we did it right, there was a wet imprint of where the grub got squashed against the can by the force of the explosion…geez kids are cruel…

It is possible that they prefer acidic pH. I have alkaline soil and though I get the odd one, I never get infestations.

nup – pH of about 8.5 in the planting holes in question.

test the undug surface.

roughbarked said:

justin said:

roughbarked said:

It is possible that they prefer acidic pH. I have alkaline soil and though I get the odd one, I never get infestations.

nup – pH of about 8.5 in the planting holes in question.

test the undug surface.

ok – but only because it’s your BD.

justin said:

roughbarked said:

justin said:

nup – pH of about 8.5 in the planting holes in question.

test the undug surface.

ok – but only because it’s your BD.

c’mon. it is simple science. test all parameters. ;)

justin said:

roughbarked said:

justin said:

nup – pH of about 8.5 in the planting holes in question.

test the undug surface.

ok – but only because it’s your BD.

:D :D

roughbarked said:

justin said:

roughbarked said:

test the undug surface.

ok – but only because it’s your BD.

c’mon. it is simple science. test all parameters. ;)

it’s a fair and reasonable question but – there’s not much acidic soil in this area.
however I did test the ‘fill soil’ to see if grape marc should be added – so i’ll go and see what the surrounding soil is like.
just finishing the coffee – bb shortly.

justin said:

roughbarked said:

justin said:

ok – but only because it’s your BD.

c’mon. it is simple science. test all parameters. ;)

it’s a fair and reasonable question but – there’s not much acidic soil in this area.
however I did test the ‘fill soil’ to see if grape marc should be added – so i’ll go and see what the surrounding soil is like.
just finishing the coffee – bb shortly.

Pine needles are usually acidic.. but truckloads of nitric acid won’t change an alkaline soil pH. it is only ever about the top layers.

roughbarked said:

justin said:

bluegreen said:

“A bird does not sing because it has an answer. It sings because it has a song.”
Chinese Proverb

i like it but – a song has a meaning – probably telling me get out of their territory – in a very chirpy manner.

Birds care little about us if we don’t show a threatening manner to them. Quite the opposite, they get over their fears and become inquisitive about what we may disturb that they may eat.

still sipping coffee – there are a number of possibilities to explain the 30 second burst of bird sound followed by silence

1. it comes in waves because they have to compete with the wind’s influence
2. a person simply can’t hear their normal twerping and only hears the concerto of all their voices
3. surprise element to ward off
4. celebration of a combined choir of a successful group
5. add your own imaginative reason…….

roughbarked said:

justin said:

roughbarked said:

c’mon. it is simple science. test all parameters. ;)

it’s a fair and reasonable question but – there’s not much acidic soil in this area.
however I did test the ‘fill soil’ to see if grape marc should be added – so i’ll go and see what the surrounding soil is like.
just finishing the coffee – bb shortly.

Pine needles are usually acidic.. but truckloads of nitric acid won’t change an alkaline soil pH. it is only ever about the top layers.

the pH readings from around the sides of the planting hole are either green or light purple in colour.
so pH probably 7-9.
these grubs have only come to my attention in the last week .
the good soil of my garden and curtilage area has not been investigated because there is no obvious sign of infestation.
so maybe this is an isolated concentration where there are a lot of old dead roots.

the chooks have cleaned the grubs out of the soil in their yard – and the birds (probably spoggies) have left deposits around the holes, so they have been cleaning up the soil left in the hole.
those new Holland honeyeaters did a group chatter this morning as well. the group was only about four strong this time and seemed to be responding to other bird calls.

I have planted my male and female pistachios into their totally reworked holes.
I don’t know if the curl grubs will return. I am hoping that the new soil’s organic matter will grow fungi and parasites to kill the grubs but…?