We need a replacement for our gas hot water system, a storage tank type.

Thinking of a gas instantaneous type.

Opinions for/against, please?

captain_spalding said:

We need a replacement for our gas hot water system, a storage tank type.

Thinking of a gas instantaneous type.

Opinions for/against, please?

How about solar with electric top-up?

The Rev Dodgson said:

captain_spalding said:

We need a replacement for our gas hot water system, a storage tank type.

Thinking of a gas instantaneous type.

Opinions for/against, please?

How about solar with electric top-up?

Lovely idea. Oops, shortage of that crinkly stuff with pictures on it.

I run an instantaneous gas system. It is of the kind that has no pilot light, so is good on gas consumption. It will not start without electricity though.

captain_spalding said:

We need a replacement for our gas hot water system, a storage tank type.

Thinking of a gas instantaneous type.

Opinions for/against, please?

I’ve had both and prefer instantaneous.

The pros are you only use gas when using, never runs out of hot water if you have a family or want long showers, or periods of extented usage.

The cons are initial price and gas useage with the above pros.

morrie said:

I run an instantaneous gas system. It is of the kind that has no pilot light, so is good on gas consumption. It will not start without electricity though.

You can get turbo models that create a lighting system when the water flows.

Not sure how good they are, a lot of trouble seems to follow them.

I recall living with a gas storage system that had a pilot light. The light would invariably go out in winter. It was a bastard to light. And you would have to wait forever for it to heat up. And if the teenagers did their fall asleep in the shower routine, there would be no hot water for the adults.

I just bought a heat pump that runs on off peak electricity

its easy to install and uses bugger all power

Thanks for remarks.

I do lean to and nstantaneous system.

we already have a natural gas connection, so it seems the way to go.

Off to the plumbing joint tomorrow. Big local outfit, good rep, best prices in town.

captain_spalding said:

Thanks for remarks.

I do lean to and nstantaneous system.

we already have a natural gas connection, so it seems the way to go.

Off to the plumbing joint tomorrow. Big local outfit, good rep, best prices in town.

if you’ve got gas fine

the problem with storage is that you spend energy keeping it hot

wookiemeister said:

captain_spalding said:

Thanks for remarks.

I do lean to and nstantaneous system.

we already have a natural gas connection, so it seems the way to go.

Off to the plumbing joint tomorrow. Big local outfit, good rep, best prices in town.

if you’ve got gas fine

the problem with storage is that you spend energy keeping it hot

I run mine on bottled gas.

morrie said:

wookiemeister said:

captain_spalding said:

Thanks for remarks.

I do lean to and nstantaneous system.

we already have a natural gas connection, so it seems the way to go.

Off to the plumbing joint tomorrow. Big local outfit, good rep, best prices in town.

if you’ve got gas fine

the problem with storage is that you spend energy keeping it hot

I run mine on bottled gas.

it might become much more popular as electricity becomes more and more expensive

I guess if you look at the infrastructure you need an entire powerstation running 24 hours a day to make hot water somewhere

all you need to do with gas bottles is use them whenever you need them, the infrastructure for that doesn’t need to run for 24 hours a day and very few moving parts.

Instantaneous FTW.

Morning peoples.

My first real dark ride on the pushy this morning – About this time each year I resolve to buy better lights.

8-/

We’ve had heat pump systems for over 20 years now. They are expensive though. And they use a little bit of electricity to pump the coolant gas. In Casterton there was an instantaneous type one when I bought the house about 15 years ago, but it was not terribly reliable. As I didn’t need much hot water, I had a small tank version fitted. It’s now stuffed. I’m counting my cash to put a small heat pump system on that house while it is still a business property, before I retire. You probably don’t have that advantage though.

:)

Sorry, wrong fred.

=> Chat

poikilotherm said:

Instantaneous FTW.

It’s really cheap for us, ~$50/qtr in gas, which includes gas heating (goes up to ~$80-90 during winter). Now that I’ve had the instantaneous thing, wouldn’t bother with storage systems, unless the price of gas goes up a lot…

captain_spalding said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

captain_spalding said:

We need a replacement for our gas hot water system, a storage tank type.

Thinking of a gas instantaneous type.

Opinions for/against, please?

How about solar with electric top-up?

Lovely idea. Oops, shortage of that crinkly stuff with pictures on it.

The damned crinkly stuff with pictures is way over-priced.

instantaneous. only way to go. use bugger all gas. i have a 8.5kg bottle on mine and over two years use. family across the road have a 45kg bottle for 3-4 people and two years so far. mine cost $750, fitted it myself.

Boris said:

instantaneous. only way to go. use bugger all gas. i have a 8.5kg bottle on mine and over two years use. family across the road have a 45kg bottle for 3-4 people and two years so far. mine cost $750, fitted it myself.

I believe that is illegal.

why? i am not connected to public services.

Boris said:

why? i am not connected to public services.

I don’t think that makes any difference.

morrie said:

Boris said:

why? i am not connected to public services.

I don’t think that makes any difference.

People do it all the time in places like White Cliffs.

well, unless someone here tells, and knows who i am and where i live, i should be ok.

:-)

Boris said:

well, unless someone here tells, and knows who i am and where i live, i should be ok.

:-)

or
if someone gets hurt…

There were even some rules about water installations in Queensland IIRC, when they made tanks mandatory. You were not allowed to plumb them into your own kitchen!

But gas and electrical work must be done by licenced people, whether you are connected to services or not. I guess this is a public safety issue.

What’s illegal, Boris’s system or the fact that he did it himself?

You were not allowed to plumb them into your own kitchen!

i believe that is so that you don’t plumb your tank water into the mains and thus run a risk of contaminating the public water supply.

Bubblecar said:

What’s illegal, Boris’s system or the fact that he did it himself?

The fact that some things need to be regulated and it is down to a professional inspection at the very least.

Bubblecar said:

What’s illegal, Boris’s system or the fact that he did it himself?

Doing it himself. There are also Standards for positioning of the units. Things like proximity to drains for example. So it might be both.

that i did it myself.

Boris said:

You were not allowed to plumb them into your own kitchen!

i believe that is so that you don’t plumb your tank water into the mains and thus run a risk of contaminating the public water supply.

known as back-flush or flow.. A real no no.

Boris said:

that i did it myself.

One can get an owner builders license…

roughbarked said:

Boris said:

that i did it myself.

One can get an owner builders license…

Does not cover electrical and gas fitting I think you will find.
My system has a compliance plate on the wall next to it, signed off by the registered gas fitter/plumber who installed it and registered somewhere on a database I think.

to be on the safe side i always turn the gas off when i don’t need hot water. there is only me here so it isn’t as if i need it every 5 minutes.

Does not cover electrical and gas fitting I think you will find.

yep.

morrie said:

roughbarked said:

Boris said:

that i did it myself.

One can get an owner builders license…

Does not cover electrical and gas fitting I think you will find.
My system has a compliance plate on the wall next to it, signed off by the registered gas fitter/plumber who installed it and registered somewhere on a database I think.

Under a builders license you need to have contractors sign off on the work.

What are the limitations of an Owner Builder Permit?
An Owner Builder Permit is not a building licence. It does not allow you to:

· Do work other than the project covered by the Development Application or Complying Development certificate

· Do specialist work such as electrical, plumbing, gas fitting, air conditioning and refrigeration work (unless you hold a licence for such work)

Boris said:

to be on the safe side i always turn the gas off when i don’t need hot water. there is only me here so it isn’t as if i need it every 5 minutes.

Just once a week if you need it ;)

i am a pom. no need to waste water. i roll in the dewy grass at other times. or do an APC wash.

roughbarked said:

morrie said:

roughbarked said:

One can get an owner builders license…

Does not cover electrical and gas fitting I think you will find.
My system has a compliance plate on the wall next to it, signed off by the registered gas fitter/plumber who installed it and registered somewhere on a database I think.

Under a builders license you need to have contractors sign off on the work.

My house has a gravity feed tank in the ceiling roof space. Part heated by slow combustion backup off peak. The original builders didn’t take the overflow drain off properly and the tank eventually started falling through the ceiling. So I ordered my own replacement and ripped the old one out, fitted the new one which also required ripping part of the roof off and cutting one of the main roof struts. I have had no problems with my re-fit.

morrie said:

Boris said:

to be on the safe side i always turn the gas off when i don’t need hot water. there is only me here so it isn’t as if i need it every 5 minutes.

Just once a week if you need it ;)

Didn’t know he was English?

morrie said:

I run an instantaneous gas system. It is of the kind that has no pilot light, so is good on gas consumption. It will not start without electricity though.

Hmm… you have made me realise my system at home is the same, and is not as proof against blackout as I suspected…

Boris said:

i am a pom. no need to waste water. i roll in the dewy grass at other times. or do an APC wash.

answered my question.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

morrie said:

I run an instantaneous gas system. It is of the kind that has no pilot light, so is good on gas consumption. It will not start without electricity though.

Hmm… you have made me realise my system at home is the same, and is not as proof against blackout as I suspected…

I have a backup genset.. as does morrie.

get the hydro model. water flow makes the spark.

Boris said:

get the hydro model. water flow makes the spark.

What about a rat on a wheel?

Boris said:

get the hydro model. water flow makes the spark.

linky?

Divine Angel said:

Boris said:

get the hydro model. water flow makes the spark.

What about a rat on a wheel?

that’s the one he meant.. water coming in makes the rat run.

http://www.bosch-climate.com.au/products-bosch-hot-water/gas-hot-water/domestic/external-hydropower.html

roughbarked said:

I have a backup genset.. as does morrie.

Seems silly to have a genset running to make sure the gas HWS works. Will definitely look at options.

Boris said:

get the hydro model. water flow makes the spark.

Have a read of the reviews on those, fairly suss they seem.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

roughbarked said:

I have a backup genset.. as does morrie.

Seems silly to have a genset running to make sure the gas HWS works. Will definitely look at options.

I don’t have gas.. I was only suggesting that if you have it for other purposes it could be used if needed.

http://www.chromagen.com.au/index.php/products/residential-products/eternity-gas-hot-water/34-continuous-flow-gas-hot-water-eternity-t

i have the g20.

this is the company that made mine.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

roughbarked said:

I have a backup genset.. as does morrie.

Seems silly to have a genset running to make sure the gas HWS works. Will definitely look at options.

In your case it would seem that some sort of UPS would work. The current draw must be infinitesimal. I was thinking recently that I could have parked the car next to it and used the inverter in there to run the hws. (That is when I had the battery crisis recently.)

Instant gas is always my preferred option.

should never have a problem with the pilot light going out if it is well situated with just a little protection from the wind.

with bottled gas pp you don’t want one with a pilot light. too wasteful.

Boris said:

with bottled gas pp you don’t want one with a pilot light. too wasteful.

I don’t think any of the new instantaneous systems have pilot lights, at least, none of the ones I looked at before buying ours.

Boris said:

with bottled gas pp you don’t want one with a pilot light. too wasteful.

Mains gas connection was assumed from the OP.

who reads the op!!??

party_pants said:

Boris said:

with bottled gas pp you don’t want one with a pilot light. too wasteful.

Mains gas connection was assumed from the OP.

Actually it wasn’t the OP, it was in a subsequent post a little further down.

I have recently installed another instantaneous. The first one was good and looked to be original, pilot light gas, red hot water. It sometimes blew out when it was very windy and rainy. I replaced it because there were little variations in water temperature so I got a new gas instantaneous. Trap for new players. This one, like all others on the market requires electricity) at the moment there is an extinction cord running the unit so holes though walls have to be considered. Also if you want the set temperature feature for your showers for example, that again needs a powered box. May not be a problem in modern houses with cavitys but can be a problem in older ones or ones without cavities.

morrie said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

roughbarked said:

I have a backup genset.. as does morrie.

Seems silly to have a genset running to make sure the gas HWS works. Will definitely look at options.

In your case it would seem that some sort of UPS would work. The current draw must be infinitesimal. I was thinking recently that I could have parked the car next to it and used the inverter in there to run the hws. (That is when I had the battery crisis recently.)

That is my thinking, I am hoping to get a 12v UPS system for such occasions, to run the phone and ADSL modem and laptop/phone chargers. Will be strange that the only thing that needs an inverter is the gas HWS.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

morrie said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

Seems silly to have a genset running to make sure the gas HWS works. Will definitely look at options.

In your case it would seem that some sort of UPS would work. The current draw must be infinitesimal. I was thinking recently that I could have parked the car next to it and used the inverter in there to run the hws. (That is when I had the battery crisis recently.)

That is my thinking, I am hoping to get a 12v UPS system for such occasions, to run the phone and ADSL modem and laptop/phone chargers. Will be strange that the only thing that needs an inverter is the gas HWS.

I ran the house for a while on the dodgy genset that was pumping out 270 volts. I’m surprised but pleased that I didn’t blow up the satellite modem.

morrie said:

Carmen_Sandiego said:

morrie said:

In your case it would seem that some sort of UPS would work. The current draw must be infinitesimal. I was thinking recently that I could have parked the car next to it and used the inverter in there to run the hws. (That is when I had the battery crisis recently.)

That is my thinking, I am hoping to get a 12v UPS system for such occasions, to run the phone and ADSL modem and laptop/phone chargers. Will be strange that the only thing that needs an inverter is the gas HWS.

I ran the house for a while on the dodgy genset that was pumping out 270 volts. I’m surprised but pleased that I didn’t blow up the satellite modem.

The fridge refused the 270 volt supply, but I am now wondering if it might have blown the defrost unit and that is what has caused the fridge to fill up with ice.

morrie said:

The fridge refused the 270 volt supply, but I am now wondering if it might have blown the defrost unit and that is what has caused the fridge to fill up with ice.

The “defrost unit” is a timer (set for about 11 hours from memory). There should be a schematic on the back of your fridge that explains its workings but generally it works like this:

1. Fridge turns on, thermostat tells the compressor to run when needed.
2. After a set period of time, the timer turns off power to the compressor and turns on heating elements around the door to prevent condensation.
3. When the fridge warms up to a preset temperature, a bi-metal strip repowers the timer which starts the process again.

Note that if you remove the timer from the circuit (or if it fails) then you will need to manually defrost the fridge every two weeks if in a humid location, and the modern fridges aren’t designed for easy defrostation. (ask me how I know :) )

(ask me how I know :) )

I have ideas but you can tell me.

Thanks for the explanation. I realise now that I will have to swap out the fridges. Which means getting the tractor going. Which means installing the new alternator. It never ends around here.

roughbarked said:

(ask me how I know :) )

I have ideas but you can tell me.

When the door heating elements go down to earth, they trip the earth leakage breaker. You then run around unplugging stuff trying to narrow down the offending item in the house, and after a while the problem just goes away. (the fridge clicks back into cooling mode)

Unfortunately, the door heating elements are part of the wiring and can’t be isolated, so the only way to stop the tripping is to take the timer completely out of circuit. That buys you enough time to buy a new fridge after realising there are more important things to do than having to defrost it several times a month.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

roughbarked said:

(ask me how I know :) )

I have ideas but you can tell me.

When the door heating elements go down to earth, they trip the earth leakage breaker. You then run around unplugging stuff trying to narrow down the offending item in the house, and after a while the problem just goes away. (the fridge clicks back into cooling mode)

Unfortunately, the door heating elements are part of the wiring and can’t be isolated, so the only way to stop the tripping is to take the timer completely out of circuit. That buys you enough time to buy a new fridge after realising there are more important things to do than having to defrost it several times a month.

Thought as much.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

roughbarked said:

(ask me how I know :) )

I have ideas but you can tell me.

When the door heating elements go down to earth, they trip the earth leakage breaker. You then run around unplugging stuff trying to narrow down the offending item in the house, and after a while the problem just goes away. (the fridge clicks back into cooling mode)

Unfortunately, the door heating elements are part of the wiring and can’t be isolated, so the only way to stop the tripping is to take the timer completely out of circuit. That buys you enough time to buy a new fridge after realising there are more important things to do than having to defrost it several times a month.

I checked the power draw. It was 1.1kWh for 24 hours. Thats about normal. I will swap out the fridges and see how it goes once I de-ice it. I suspect that I may be up for a new fridge though.
Meanwhile, got the tractor going and the new alternator is pushing out 13.7 volts, so that looks promising.

Carmen_Sandiego said:

When the door heating elements go down to earth,

You heat your doors?!

Who wants a cold knob first thing in the morning?

Divine Angel said:

Who wants a cold knob first thing in the morning?

I don’t think I’ll be able to look at you the same way ever again :-p

Divine Angel said:

Who wants a cold knob first thing in the morning?

… gives you something to look forward to each morning, I must say :)

morrie said:

Boris said:

instantaneous. only way to go. use bugger all gas. i have a 8.5kg bottle on mine and over two years use. family across the road have a 45kg bottle for 3-4 people and two years so far. mine cost $750, fitted it myself.

I believe that is illegal.

sounds like boris is in hot water