Very interesting article about the growing science of neurocriminology:

Do your genes, rather than upbringing, determine whether you will become a criminal? Adrian Raine believed so – and breaking that taboo put him on collision course with the world of science

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2013/may/12/how-to-spot-a-murderers-brain

I was only talking to Sharon at the hairdressers yesterday and she said they should lock up everyone with the murder gene.

Peak Warming Man said:

I was only talking to Sharon at the hairdressers yesterday and she said they should lock up everyone with the murder gene.

the streets would be empty and she’d have no hair to cut.

I think there’s more to to genes, genetics, epi-genetics, human chemistry, than a lot of people think/know

and these can have real consequences when making law

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think there’s more to to genes, genetics, epi-genetics, human chemistry, than a lot of people think/know

and these can have real consequences when making law

there’s also a lot attributed to genes and genetics that is unproven.

roughbarked said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think there’s more to to genes, genetics, epi-genetics, human chemistry, than a lot of people think/know

and these can have real consequences when making law

there’s also a lot attributed to genes and genetics that is unproven.

More reason to research to prove, disprove and validate

CrazyNeutrino said:

roughbarked said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

I think there’s more to to genes, genetics, epi-genetics, human chemistry, than a lot of people think/know

and these can have real consequences when making law

there’s also a lot attributed to genes and genetics that is unproven.

More reason to research to prove, disprove and validate

No argument here.

Maybe if you’re found to have the murderer’s brain, you should pre-emptively chop your head off.

Peak Warming Man said:

I was only talking to Sharon at the hairdressers yesterday and she said they should lock up everyone with the murder gene.

Hmmm. Do we really want to head down the road towards “Minority Report”?

KJW said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I was only talking to Sharon at the hairdressers yesterday and she said they should lock up everyone with the murder gene.

Hmmm. Do we really want to head down the road towards “Minority Report”?

If they aren’t the minority locking up people without the gene might be easier!!!

Bubblecar said:

Very interesting article about the growing science of neurocriminology:

Do your genes, rather than upbringing, determine whether you will become a criminal? Adrian Raine believed so – and breaking that taboo put him on collision course with the world of science

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2013/may/12/how-to-spot-a-murderers-brain

There’s a good book by Philip Zimbardo about this topic – The Lucifer effect.

I did a presentation for my MBA psychology course about it and his Stanford Prison Experiment (still one of the best research studies in this field – mainly because it’s now classified as unethical to do undertake such studies!).

Basically there are prime examples to demonstrate that, to use Hollywood analogy:

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist IN EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US!

Imperial Japanese Army, WWII, 1937 – millions of Chinese girls raped, tortured, killed (not necessarily in that order).
Hutus, Rwanda, 1998 – millions of neighbours raped, tortured, killed (not necessarily in that order).
U.S. Army, Abu Ghraib, 2003 – rape, torture, etc you get the idea… not all the pictures of this were released in the media – they are quite disturbing…

They were not ‘rotten apples’ – they were all like us to begin with… the wrong situation and anyone WILL become a killer or worse… much much worse.

Given enough time and isolation and I could turn you all into such animals.

bourke said:

Bubblecar said:

Very interesting article about the growing science of neurocriminology:

Do your genes, rather than upbringing, determine whether you will become a criminal? Adrian Raine believed so – and breaking that taboo put him on collision course with the world of science

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2013/may/12/how-to-spot-a-murderers-brain

There’s a good book by Philip Zimbardo about this topic – The Lucifer effect.

I did a presentation for my MBA psychology course about it and his Stanford Prison Experiment (still one of the best research studies in this field – mainly because it’s now classified as unethical to do undertake such studies!).

Basically there are prime examples to demonstrate that, to use Hollywood analogy:

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist IN EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US!

Imperial Japanese Army, WWII, 1937 – millions of Chinese girls raped, tortured, killed (not necessarily in that order).
Hutus, Rwanda, 1998 – millions of neighbours raped, tortured, killed (not necessarily in that order).
U.S. Army, Abu Ghraib, 2003 – rape, torture, etc you get the idea… not all the pictures of this were released in the media – they are quite disturbing…

They were not ‘rotten apples’ – they were all like us to begin with… the wrong situation and anyone WILL become a killer or worse… much much worse.

Given enough time and isolation and I could turn you all into such animals.

That’s similar to Robert Lifton’s take in ‘The Nazi Doctors’, ordinary people doing extraordinary (unusual) things to others. Tried to look at why, I can’t really remember the rest of the book.

roughbarked said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I was only talking to Sharon at the hairdressers yesterday and she said they should lock up everyone with the murder gene.

the streets would be empty and she’d have no hair to cut.

I repeat..

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

Peak Warming Man said:

I was only talking to Sharon at the hairdressers yesterday and she said they should lock up everyone with the murder gene.

the streets would be empty and she’d have no hair to cut.

I repeat..

not everyone carries the murder gene

CrazyNeutrino said:

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

the streets would be empty and she’d have no hair to cut.

I repeat..

not everyone carries the murder gene

What do they do, leave it at home?

not everyone carries the murder gene
————————————————————-

Why? Where do they get it from?

Besides their loving parents…

Seems Cain has a lot of relatives…

roughbarked said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

roughbarked said:

I repeat..

not everyone carries the murder gene

What do they do, leave it at home?

nup, its a UCW
Ultimate Concealed Weapon

Mr Ironic said:

Seems Cain has a lot of relatives…

No, he only had his mum, and dad, and his brother.

Of course, after he was cast out for putting the kibosh on said brother, he married some girl or other.

Hang on, where did she come from?

Hang on, where did she come from?
—————————————————

Hanging on from outside the garden…

You know its true.

Mr Ironic said:

Hang on, where did she come from?
—————————————————

Hanging on from outside the garden…

You know its true.

So, there were ‘garden dwellers’ who got all the write-ups in the Bible, but, at the same time, there was a bunch of other extra-mural inhabitants, who just didn’t get a mention?

the first humans were adam and eve

anyone not of the line of adam and eve are animals.

in this way you can write off most of the human race as animals, there is no convenant or deal with animals they just get killed or put into slavery

its like the “ark” is always portrayed as a boat

an ark is a box

its all about how you read this stuff

So, there were ‘garden dwellers’ who got all the write-ups in the Bible, but, at the same time, there was a bunch of other extra-mural inhabitants, who just didn’t get a mention?
———————————————-

Now you are learning.

Yeah they only had enough parchment for their own tribe.

Live with it.

wookiemeister said:

the first humans were adam and eve

anyone not of the line of adam and eve are animals.

in this way you can write off most of the human race as animals, there is no convenant or deal with animals they just get killed or put into slavery

its like the “ark” is always portrayed as a boat

an ark is a box

its all about how you read this stuff

So…Noah’s ark was really the first shipping container. A stinking big shipping container, but a container all the same?

captain_spalding said:

wookiemeister said:

the first humans were adam and eve

anyone not of the line of adam and eve are animals.

in this way you can write off most of the human race as animals, there is no convenant or deal with animals they just get killed or put into slavery

its like the “ark” is always portrayed as a boat

an ark is a box

its all about how you read this stuff

So…Noah’s ark was really the first shipping container. A stinking big shipping container, but a container all the same?

Without a crane.

Mr Ironic said:

So, there were ‘garden dwellers’ who got all the write-ups in the Bible, but, at the same time, there was a bunch of other extra-mural inhabitants, who just didn’t get a mention?
———————————————-

Now you are learning.

Yeah they only had enough parchment for their own tribe.

Live with it.

Were they made from dust, too, with the breath of life breathed into their nostrils? The blokes, that is. I’m presuming all the women were all produced by the removed rib-to-woman porocess.

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

wookiemeister said:

the first humans were adam and eve

anyone not of the line of adam and eve are animals.

in this way you can write off most of the human race as animals, there is no convenant or deal with animals they just get killed or put into slavery

its like the “ark” is always portrayed as a boat

an ark is a box

its all about how you read this stuff

So…Noah’s ark was really the first shipping container. A stinking big shipping container, but a container all the same?

Without a crane.

Scratch that, he took two.

Without a crane.
————————-

Cranes can fly…

the old testament just stole a heap of stuff other people came up with

they appear to be “clever” but its all stolen from somewhere else

religion should be read because you can learn something from it because its stolen ideas from elsewhere

I’ve always meant to read the Koran but never got round to it. I’ve flicked through the Mormon’s book but its a very poor knock off the the OT

roughbarked said:

roughbarked said:

captain_spalding said:

So…Noah’s ark was really the first shipping container. A stinking big shipping container, but a container all the same?

Without a crane.

Scratch that, he took two.

I hope they were fifty-ton cranes.

Were they made from dust, too, with the breath of life breathed into their nostrils? The blokes, that is. I’m presuming all the women were all produced by the removed rib-to-woman porocess.
—————————————————

Yep… Star dust. Are you an unbeliver?

And yes the seperation of man from woman left us with one less rib but both our balls…

I for one am happy with that.

I’ve read some of the books of the Koran.

As a set of rules for an authoritarian, patriarchal, comparatively-isolated desert-dwelling bunch of nomads in the Dark Ages, it’s pretty good stuff.

As the basis for a system of government, law, social behaviours, and international relations in a complex and diverse world with rapid communication and travel; well…

captain_spalding said:

So…Noah’s ark was really the first shipping container. A stinking big shipping container, but a container all the same?

Dunno about that. We bought three off Royal Wolf this week, and they repainted then for us too, and delivered them by truck. Didn’t hear of Noah ever providing such good customer service.

another reason you should read the religious texts is so you can understand the beast

you can see how they will kill you and the reasoning for it

the hare krishnas for example will essentially sort us out to be their slaves/ peasants

if we go against them they can kill us because they are doing us a karmic favour, if they kill us in this life it means that justice has been administered in this life so when we become back again we will come back as humans and not go down a level.

just remember that when you cut down with a machete or rifle on the battlefield – they are just trying to help us

captain_spalding said:

I’ve read some of the books of the Koran.

As a set of rules for an authoritarian, patriarchal, comparatively-isolated desert-dwelling bunch of nomads in the Dark Ages, it’s pretty good stuff.

As the basis for a system of government, law, social behaviours, and international relations in a complex and diverse world with rapid communication and travel; well…

kind of like dune

they appear to be “clever” but its all stolen from somewhere else
————————————————————-

Yeah the Chinese did it first…

The first Emperor destroyed the evidence of the other first Emperors…

Mr Ironic said:

Were they made from dust, too, with the breath of life breathed into their nostrils? The blokes, that is. I’m presuming all the women were all produced by the removed rib-to-woman porocess.
—————————————————

Yep… Star dust. Are you an unbeliver?

And yes the seperation of man from woman left us with one less rib but both our balls…

I for one am happy with that.

Well, i dunno about that. I’ve seen skeletons and near-skeletons (in fact, i’ve seen more skeletons than was probably good for me), and they all had 12 pairs of ribs. No diff between genders.

Didn’t hear of Noah ever providing such good customer service.
——————————————————————

But he did float the idea.

kind of like dune
—————————

Another failure…

Well, i dunno about that. I’ve seen skeletons and near-skeletons (in fact, i’ve seen more skeletons than was probably good for me), and they all had 12 pairs of ribs. No diff between genders.
—————————————————————

Its not difficult, we had 12.5…

the first humans were adam and eve

Cain was carrying the murder gene when he killed Abel

so the problem started right at the beginning

but there was another problem as well

Eve had no daughters

unless he did it with his mum

um, that is another problem too isn’t it

CrazyNeutrino said:

the first humans were adam and eve

Cain was carrying the murder gene when he killed Abel

so the problem started right at the beginning

but there was another problem as well

Eve had no daughters

unless he did it with his mum

um, that is another problem too isn’t it

two problems actually

incest and inbreeding

CrazyNeutrino said:

unless he did it with his mum

um, that is another problem too isn’t it

No, there was this other bunch of itinerants lurking off in the wings somewhere. Cain married one when he got turfed out of Eden.

They apparently just had a hopeless PR firm – couldn’t get anything other than an oblique mention in the Book.

Eve had no daughters

unless he did it with his mum

um, that is another problem too isn’t it
—————————————————-

Well thats a gay perspective.

Mr Ironic said:

Eve had no daughters

unless he did it with his mum

um, that is another problem too isn’t it
—————————————————-

Well thats a gay perspective.

?

They apparently just had a hopeless PR firm
———————————-

Now you are with the program.

CrazyNeutrino said:

Mr Ironic said:

Eve had no daughters

unless he did it with his mum

um, that is another problem too isn’t it
—————————————————-

Well thats a gay perspective.

———————

If she had no daughters,

There must of been only sons…

?

captain_spalding said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

unless he did it with his mum

um, that is another problem too isn’t it

No, there was this other bunch of itinerants lurking off in the wings somewhere. Cain married one when he got turfed out of Eden.

They apparently just had a hopeless PR firm – couldn’t get anything other than an oblique mention in the Book.

illegal aliens ?

captain_spalding said:

I’ve read some of the books of the Koran.

As a set of rules for an authoritarian, patriarchal, comparatively-isolated desert-dwelling bunch of nomads in the Dark Ages, it’s pretty good stuff.

As the basis for a system of government, law, social behaviours, and international relations in a complex and diverse world with rapid communication and travel; well…

it makes me wonder if mohammed ripped off a few things from other local religions

the black rock that’s in mecca was worshipped by another religion

Mr Ironic said:

they appear to be “clever” but its all stolen from somewhere else
————————————————————-

Yeah the Chinese did it first…

The first Emperor destroyed the evidence of the other first Emperors…

ahhh really?

didn’t know that

well he must have given it a go

CrazyNeutrino said:

captain_spalding said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

unless he did it with his mum

um, that is another problem too isn’t it

No, there was this other bunch of itinerants lurking off in the wings somewhere. Cain married one when he got turfed out of Eden.

They apparently just had a hopeless PR firm – couldn’t get anything other than an oblique mention in the Book.

illegal aliens ?

Possibly. Boat people, illegal border-crossers, visa-overstayers, something like that.

I suppose they needed them way back then. Someone had to pick the goddamn cotton.

Mr Ironic said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

Mr Ironic said:

Eve had no daughters

unless he did it with his mum

um, that is another problem too isn’t it
—————————————————-

Well thats a gay perspective.

———————

If she had no daughters,

There must of been only sons…

?

Ah, I see, the very first epi-genetic homosexual occurrence, started by Eve during her pregnancy

ahhh really?

didn’t know that
——————————

Try this… from Phil

Beginning in 213 BC, at the instigation of Li Si and to avoid scholars’ comparisons of his reign with the past, Qin Shi Huang ordered most existing books to be burned with the exception of those on astrology, agriculture, medicine, divination, and the history of the State of Qin. This would also serve the purpose of furthering the ongoing reformation of the writing system by removing examples of obsolete scripts. Owning the Book of Songs or the Classic of History was to be punished especially severely. According to the later Records of the Grand Historian, the following year Qin Shi Huang had some 460 scholars buried alive for owning the forbidden books. The emperor’s oldest son Fusu criticised him for this act. The emperor’s own library still had copies of the forbidden books but most of these were destroyed later when Xiang Yu burned the palaces of Xianyang in 206 BC.

Mr Ironic said:

ahhh really?

didn’t know that
——————————

Try this… from Phil

Beginning in 213 BC, at the instigation of Li Si and to avoid scholars’ comparisons of his reign with the past, Qin Shi Huang ordered most existing books to be burned with the exception of those on astrology, agriculture, medicine, divination, and the history of the State of Qin. This would also serve the purpose of furthering the ongoing reformation of the writing system by removing examples of obsolete scripts. Owning the Book of Songs or the Classic of History was to be punished especially severely. According to the later Records of the Grand Historian, the following year Qin Shi Huang had some 460 scholars buried alive for owning the forbidden books. The emperor’s oldest son Fusu criticised him for this act. The emperor’s own library still had copies of the forbidden books but most of these were destroyed later when Xiang Yu burned the palaces of Xianyang in 206 BC.

they should have buried the books when this maniac came into power and then waited for him to die

this way no one would actually be owning the books if they were ever discovered.

Mr Ironic said:

ahhh really?

didn’t know that
——————————

Try this… from Phil

Beginning in 213 BC, at the instigation of Li Si and to avoid scholars’ comparisons of his reign with the past, Qin Shi Huang ordered most existing books to be burned with the exception of those on astrology, agriculture, medicine, divination, and the history of the State of Qin. This would also serve the purpose of furthering the ongoing reformation of the writing system by removing examples of obsolete scripts. Owning the Book of Songs or the Classic of History was to be punished especially severely. According to the later Records of the Grand Historian, the following year Qin Shi Huang had some 460 scholars buried alive for owning the forbidden books. The emperor’s oldest son Fusu criticised him for this act. The emperor’s own library still had copies of the forbidden books but most of these were destroyed later when Xiang Yu burned the palaces of Xianyang in 206 BC.

they should have buried the books when this maniac came into power and then waited for him to die

this way no one would actually be owning the books if they were ever discovered.

he was a raving lunatic by all accounts

Mr Ironic said:

ahhh really?

didn’t know that
——————————

Try this… from Phil

Beginning in 213 BC, at the instigation of Li Si and to avoid scholars’ comparisons of his reign with the past, Qin Shi Huang ordered most existing books to be burned with the exception of those on astrology, agriculture, medicine, divination, and the history of the State of Qin. This would also serve the purpose of furthering the ongoing reformation of the writing system by removing examples of obsolete scripts. Owning the Book of Songs or the Classic of History was to be punished especially severely. According to the later Records of the Grand Historian, the following year Qin Shi Huang had some 460 scholars buried alive for owning the forbidden books. The emperor’s oldest son Fusu criticised him for this act. The emperor’s own library still had copies of the forbidden books but most of these were destroyed later when Xiang Yu burned the palaces of Xianyang in 206 BC.

See, if I had a decent firetruck then, I would have put out the fire, and stuck a 60mm high pressure hose up Qin Shi Huangs arse to see how far I could launch him into the ocean. We could have been a thousand years more advanced than we are now.

And Hoverboards for everyone!

wookiemeister said:

he was a raving lunatic by all accounts

Can you provide a reference that supports your contention?

And people wonder how China lost its pre-eminence as a scientific and intellectual power.

“Right-o, as new emperor, my first act is to burn all the books, so no-one can refer to anything, and we can all spend the next umpty years rediscovering all the things we already knew, and had written down in the books.”

Kingy said:

Mr Ironic said:

ahhh really?

didn’t know that
——————————

Try this… from Phil

Beginning in 213 BC, at the instigation of Li Si and to avoid scholars’ comparisons of his reign with the past, Qin Shi Huang ordered most existing books to be burned with the exception of those on astrology, agriculture, medicine, divination, and the history of the State of Qin. This would also serve the purpose of furthering the ongoing reformation of the writing system by removing examples of obsolete scripts. Owning the Book of Songs or the Classic of History was to be punished especially severely. According to the later Records of the Grand Historian, the following year Qin Shi Huang had some 460 scholars buried alive for owning the forbidden books. The emperor’s oldest son Fusu criticised him for this act. The emperor’s own library still had copies of the forbidden books but most of these were destroyed later when Xiang Yu burned the palaces of Xianyang in 206 BC.

See, if I had a decent firetruck then, I would have put out the fire, and stuck a 60mm high pressure hose up Qin Shi Huangs arse to see how far I could launch him into the ocean. We could have been a thousand years more advanced than we are now.

And Hoverboards for everyone!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit_451

Witty Rejoinder said:

wookiemeister said:

he was a raving lunatic by all accounts

Can you provide a reference that supports your contention?

well you’ve already got one

destroying books is big on the lunatics to do list

wookiemeister said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

wookiemeister said:

he was a raving lunatic by all accounts

Can you provide a reference that supports your contention?

well you’ve already got one

destroying books is big on the lunatics to do list

The Wookie report is not a reliable source.

Witty Rejoinder said:

wookiemeister said:

Witty Rejoinder said:

Can you provide a reference that supports your contention?

well you’ve already got one

destroying books is big on the lunatics to do list

The Wookie report is not a reliable source.

then find whatever truth you need to tell yourself

Kingy said:

And Hoverboards for everyone!

Pfft. I want my hoverchair!

Now!!

wookiemeister said:

then find whatever truth you need to tell yourself

By your account every great military leader of antiquity is a lunatic.

Witty Rejoinder said:

wookiemeister said:

then find whatever truth you need to tell yourself

By your account every great military leader of antiquity is a lunatic.

so tell me about alexander the great

and no I’ve never said that

wookiemeister said:

so tell me about alexander the great

and no I’ve never said that

I am suggesting that most conquering rulers would have burnt books amongst other unsavoury acts.

Bubblecar said:

Do your genes, rather than upbringing, determine whether you will become a criminal?

Adrian Raine makes a common mistake; false dichotomy.

Obviously genes and upbringing are not the only two factors at play.

Robert Louis Stevenson wrote about this ‘lucifer’ effect in his masterpiece ‘The Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde’.

I.e. Dr Jekyll employs a potion to reduce his inhibitions to enable him to murder… today we know this drug as alcohol :)

So why assume you need a gene to kill – when all you need is alcohol?!