I saw some pictures in a local mall done by local school kids. There was some really good stuff. I used to go to the HSC school biennale held at Sydney, again all good stuff.
Are we more creative when young or just have more time and encouragement? Or as rock groups seem to demonstrate, the best work is done before 25?
It varies enormously, I’d imagine. But it’s true to say that most people do a lot more artwork in their childhood (because most adults don’t do any artwork at all).
Bubblecar said:
It varies enormously, I’d imagine. But it’s true to say that most people do a lot more artwork in their childhood (because most adults don’t do any artwork at all).
Yeah I get that, but adults also don’t regularly attend art classes with materials, encouragement, time and pressure to present something.
The young of most mammal species tend to be more explorative and inquisitive when young, and in humans this may indeed translate into a more creative mindset associated with youth. But there are many exceptions, some very dramatic (such as people who only take up creative pursuits in their dotage and then do extremely well).
Leonardo seems to have remained fairly creative right through his life.
>>Or as rock groups seem to demonstrate, the best work is done before 25?
Not just music – a lot of major science is/was done by people aged 30 or under, IIRC.
morrie said:
Leonardo seems to have remained fairly creative right through his life.
I agree there are exceptions. But it seems to me that give a bunch of kiddies an art project they turn out some really really good gear. Would a similar diverse range of adults be able to do as well? (subjectivity granted).
Neophyte said:
>>Or as rock groups seem to demonstrate, the best work is done before 25?Not just music – a lot of major science is/was done by people aged 30 or under, IIRC.
Hmm, I thought that had been debunked. Whilst some great science is done by those under 30 it isn’t restricted to that age group, and old fogies can still make their mark.
Well, I may have recalled incorrectly
i heard that mathematicians were the ones who did good work early in their careers.
Neophyte said:
Well, I may have recalled incorrectly
Probably because you’re getting old :)
Skunkworks said:
I saw some pictures in a local mall done by local school kids. There was some really good stuff. I used to go to the HSC school biennale held at Sydney, again all good stuff.Are we more creative when young or just have more time and encouragement? Or as rock groups seem to demonstrate, the best work is done before 25?
On a purely practical level, if you don’t have to go to work to earn a living, you don’t have to do your own washing and you don’t have to plan and prepare all your meals……you’ve got a lot more time to be creative. So the next question would be – do people who have people to do all this for them do more creative stuff?
buffy said:
So the next question would be – do people who have people to do all this for them do more creative stuff?
Sure. Look at James Packer, and his plan to create sodding great eyesore on the Sydney skyline.
buffy said:
On a purely practical level, if you don’t have to go to work to earn a living, you don’t have to do your own washing and you don’t have to plan and prepare all your meals……you’ve got a lot more time to be creative. So the next question would be – do people who have people to do all this for them do more creative stuff?
I’d wager the daily work and/or raising a family grind would be the real killer to creativity as opposed to smaller daily chores (which can be ‘thinking time’).
… which is different to the ‘I’m a creative genius but I’m too busy procrastinating over my geniusness to actually achieve said results” kind of types.
Actually neo, I personally find one of the most dulling things is thinking about what to eat for meals. I don’t mind the creative bit of making them, but always having to be the one to decide can be very mind numbing.
anyhoo – the ABC Catalyst series two years ago on the teenage brain had some information on maturation stages and the burst of creativity during adolescence (coupled with the other stuff their developing but still not entirely mature brains made them like).
But
I recall a (I think) Naked scientists show which discounted that scientific innovations were heavily biased towards being acheived by the under 30s..
but this is a vague recollection…
buffy said:
Actually neo, I personally find one of the most dulling things is thinking about what to eat for meals.
No way, that’s what keeps me going through the week, planning a menu for the weekend :-)
buffy said:
Actually neo, I personally find one of the most dulling things is thinking about what to eat for meals. I don’t mind the creative bit of making them, but always having to be the one to decide can be very mind numbing.
I’m comparing this to desperate, worn out, stressed post docs / early-mid career researchers having a rough time with chronically ill, very young children and the pressure to keep publication rates up and supervise students and apply for grants etc….
Yeah, that’s easy, weekends is when you’ve got time. It’s having to do it every day that gets grinding after a while.
Skeptic Pete said:
buffy said:Actually neo, I personally find one of the most dulling things is thinking about what to eat for meals.
No way, that’s what keeps me going through the week, planning a menu for the weekend :-)
OCDC said:
My drive home from work is filled with thoughts of what to nuke tonight…
:-)
http://www.scieditco.com/blog3.html
Age & science: do scientists make their best discoveries during their 30s?
Posted 22nd October 2011
Age & science: do scientists make their best discoveries during their 30s?
Posted 22nd October 2011
inShareEinstein once said, “A person who has not made his great contribution to science before the age of thirty will never do so.”
Although Einstein himself did his most seminal work prior to his 30th birthday, this is not the case for all scientists. Alexander Fleming was 47 when he discovered penicillin, Andrew Wiles was 42 when he proved Fermat’s theorem and Luc Montagnier was 51 when he discovered HIV with his colleagues. We have put together an infographic on this page showing 80 famous scientists and the age at which they did their most notable work. This is only a small sample of scientists and is clearly not a comprehensive or scientifically rigorous study, but it is interesting to see nevertheless. We made a list of famous scientists and discoveries from the 19th and 20th centuries then looked up the age at which they did their most notable work. We placed them into four categories: computer science & mathematics, chemistry, physics and biology.
more on link:
Skeptic Pete said:
OCDC said:My drive home from work is filled with thoughts of what to nuke tonight…
:-)
http://phys.org/news/2011-11-breakthrough-scientific-discoveries-longer-dominated.html
Breakthrough scientific discoveries no longer dominated by the very young: study
Scientists under the age of 40 used to make the majority of significant breakthroughs in chemistry, physics and medicine – but that is no longer the case, new research suggests.
A study of Nobel Laureates from 1901 to 2008 in these three fields examined the age at which scientists did their prize-winning work.
Results showed that before 1905, about two-thirds of winners in all three fields did their prize-winning work before age 40, and about 20 percent did it before age 30.
But by 2000, great achievements before age 30 nearly never occurred in any of the three fields. In physics, great achievements by age 40 only occurred in 19 percent of cases by the year 2000, and in chemistry, it nearly never occurred.
“The image of the brilliant young scientist who makes critical breakthroughs in science is increasingly outdated, at least in these three disciplines,” said Bruce Weinberg, co-author of the study and professor of economics at Ohio State University.
“Today, the average age at which physicists do their Nobel Prize winning work is 48. Very little breakthrough work is done by physicists under 30.”
neomyrtus_ said:
http://www.scieditco.com/blog3.htmlAge & science: do scientists make their best discoveries during their 30s?
Posted 22nd October 2011
Age & science: do scientists make their best discoveries during their 30s?
Posted 22nd October 2011
inShareEinstein once said, “A person who has not made his great contribution to science before the age of thirty will never do so.”
Although Einstein himself did his most seminal work prior to his 30th birthday, this is not the case for all scientists. Alexander Fleming was 47 when he discovered penicillin, Andrew Wiles was 42 when he proved Fermat’s theorem and Luc Montagnier was 51 when he discovered HIV with his colleagues. We have put together an infographic on this page showing 80 famous scientists and the age at which they did their most notable work. This is only a small sample of scientists and is clearly not a comprehensive or scientifically rigorous study, but it is interesting to see nevertheless. We made a list of famous scientists and discoveries from the 19th and 20th centuries then looked up the age at which they did their most notable work. We placed them into four categories: computer science & mathematics, chemistry, physics and biology.
more on link:
Interesting to do age of best work as a proportion of age of death…
Before the scientists I was wondering more about ordinary people.
Invaders should bring their own food if they don’t like yours…..
maybe it’s because younger people tend to take more mind altering drugs…
buffy said:
Invaders should bring their own food if they don’t like yours…..
buffy said:
Invaders should bring their own food if they don’t like yours…..
Absolutely.
Skunkworks said:
Before the scientists I was wondering more about ordinary people.
and I noted the ABC Catalyst show was the reference to seek, but had to validate the half-remembered scientist stuff first (patience, grasshopper)
“Today, the average age at which physicists do their Nobel Prize winning work is 48. Very little breakthrough work is done by physicists under 30.”
i wonder if this is due to more being known and so you need to know more to make an advance?
He’s a uni bum and has enough trouble paying for textbooks let alone essentials like food…
OCDC said:
neomyrtus_ said:
http://www.scieditco.com/blog3.htmlAge & science: do scientists make their best discoveries during their 30s?
Posted 22nd October 2011
Age & science: do scientists make their best discoveries during their 30s?
Posted 22nd October 2011
inShareEinstein once said, “A person who has not made his great contribution to science before the age of thirty will never do so.”
Although Einstein himself did his most seminal work prior to his 30th birthday, this is not the case for all scientists. Alexander Fleming was 47 when he discovered penicillin, Andrew Wiles was 42 when he proved Fermat’s theorem and Luc Montagnier was 51 when he discovered HIV with his colleagues. We have put together an infographic on this page showing 80 famous scientists and the age at which they did their most notable work. This is only a small sample of scientists and is clearly not a comprehensive or scientifically rigorous study, but it is interesting to see nevertheless. We made a list of famous scientists and discoveries from the 19th and 20th centuries then looked up the age at which they did their most notable work. We placed them into four categories: computer science & mathematics, chemistry, physics and biology.
more on link:
Interesting to do age of best work as a proportion of age of death…
ChrispenEvan said:
“Today, the average age at which physicists do their Nobel Prize winning work is 48. Very little breakthrough work is done by physicists under 30.”i wonder if this is due to more being known and so you need to know more to make an advance?
More ladder to climb before you’re allowed/can afford to work on your own stuff?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Frazer
wookiemeister said:
what about steve jobs?
Can you be a genius at marketing?
wookiemeister said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Frazer
Oh feck, wookie said something good.
Witty Rejoinder said:
there’s a top to every ladder
wookiemeister said:what about steve jobs?
Can you be a genius at marketing?
Another way to think about it, if you gathered together as adults, the Sheryls and Daves who did great work as kiddies, give them the time and opportunity they had as kiddies, would they be able to replicate the creativity they once demonstrated?
Witty Rejoinder said:
wookiemeister said:what about steve jobs?
Can you be a genius at marketing?
http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2010-10-20/
Answer: unlikely.
OCDC said:
wookiemeister said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Frazer
Oh feck, wookie said something good.
Skunkworks said:
Another way to think about it, if you gathered together as adults, the Sheryls and Daves who did great work as kiddies, give them the time and opportunity they had as kiddies, would they be able to replicate the creativity they once demonstrated?
Probably not. By then, the education systems will have coaxed their creative talents into the open, identified them, classified them, and ruthlessly destroyed them.
captain_spalding said:
Skunkworks said:
Another way to think about it, if you gathered together as adults, the Sheryls and Daves who did great work as kiddies, give them the time and opportunity they had as kiddies, would they be able to replicate the creativity they once demonstrated?
Probably not. By then, the education systems will have coaxed their creative talents into the open, identified them, classified them, and ruthlessly destroyed them.
When I was young I was so naive, I was so naive, I was making believe making believe ..
(Just popped down from the shed where I have Chrissy playing full bore)
:)
morrie said:
When I was young I was so naive, I was so naive, I was making believe making believe ..(Just popped down from the shed where I have Chrissy playing full bore)
:)
I was in hospital when Rage had a morning special on the Divinyls after Chrissies death. They were the songs of my youth and I was having a good but sad time listening. And then with morning rounds the phlebotomis arrived and we had a nice chat about Chrissie, fame, early death and Amy Winehouse.
Meh!
I work with a bunch of twenty somethings.
Their creativity shows now bounds!
So far this week I’ve received “I can’t come in today/I was late because”:
“I ate at a dodgy Indian restaurant”
“My alarm didn’t go off”
“My car broke down”
“My dog is on heat”
To be honest, the last one is new for me and and I know it was genuine. It doesn’t change the suggestions given over the past few months about fencing and desexing of the male dog in the same household.
The one that got me this week though, was “We’ve never done it like that before” – They’re being offered $5000 tablet computers and the opportunity to reduce their workload and come out with this shit. FFS! I’m supposed to be the old bloke!
Fuck young people and their supposed creativity!
They don’t know anything until they’ve had to entertain two sick kids with nothing but a handkerchief and a hairbrush!
now=no
I remember when I was young..
roughbarked said:
I remember when I was young..
The world was so much fun.
True.
What happened?
Michael V said:
True.What happened?
We learnt too much.