http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust

Many other metals undergo equivalent corrosion, but the resulting oxides are not commonly called rust.

———-

Get used to it bubbles,, rust is corrosion but corrosion is not rust…

furious said:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust

Many other metals undergo equivalent corrosion, but the resulting oxides are not commonly called rust.

———-

Get used to it bubbles,, rust is corrosion but corrosion is not rust…

This argument is oxidised.

• This argument is oxidised.

I remember a high school chemistry teacher being very definitive on defintions of such things…

furious said:

• This argument is oxidised.

I remember a high school chemistry teacher being very definitive on defintions of such things…

and so such things should be.

roughbarked said:

furious said:

• This argument is oxidised.

I remember a high school chemistry teacher being very definitive on defintions of such things…

and so such things should be.

eg: Aluminium oxide doesn’t look rusty at all.

• Aluminium oxide doesn’t look rusty at all.

And indeed, by definition, it isn’t….

I can merely repeat:

I am well aware that rust is not the only form of corrosion. I said “corrosion normally refers to rust”, which is true enough, and added that “this is not going to occur on the moon”, because in the context of the conversation, it seemed appropriate (Kingy explained that his source actually referred to Mars, a planet whose surface is subject to much rust (oxidization of iron).

• I said “corrosion normally refers to rust”, which is true enough

You are a stubborn one aren’t you? Because corrosion is not rust. Rust is corrosion, this is true, but corrosion is not rust. Why can’t you acknowledge that?

Bubblecar said:

I can merely repeat:

I am well aware that rust is not the only form of corrosion. I said “corrosion normally refers to rust”, which is true enough, and added that “this is not going to occur on the moon”, because in the context of the conversation, it seemed appropriate (Kingy explained that his source actually referred to Mars, a planet whose surface is subject to much rust (oxidization of iron).

In reference to a hammer. I think that was the gist.. then in that instance corrosion would normally refer to rust in that I doubt that though they may have taken an inoxydable hammer into orbit, most of us do not use one.

furious said:

• I said “corrosion normally refers to rust”, which is true enough

You are a stubborn one aren’t you? Because corrosion is not rust. Rust is corrosion, this is true, but corrosion is not rust. Why can’t you acknowledge that?

I think we have a case of stubbornness with you, furious :/

Rust In Peace?

Geoff D said:

Rust In Peace?

:)

Bubblecar said:

I can merely repeat:

I am well aware that rust is not the only form of corrosion. I said “corrosion normally refers to rust”, which is true enough, and added that “this is not going to occur on the moon”, because in the context of the conversation, it seemed appropriate (Kingy explained that his source actually referred to Mars, a planet whose surface is subject to much rust (oxidization of iron).

Can I point out that it’s oxidation not oxidization? Even my spell checker agrees and gives me a red underline on the latter spelling :)

pommiejohn said:

Bubblecar said:

I can merely repeat:

I am well aware that rust is not the only form of corrosion. I said “corrosion normally refers to rust”, which is true enough, and added that “this is not going to occur on the moon”, because in the context of the conversation, it seemed appropriate (Kingy explained that his source actually referred to Mars, a planet whose surface is subject to much rust (oxidization of iron).

Can I point out that it’s oxidation not oxidization? Even my spell checker agrees and gives me a red underline on the latter spelling :)

But is it rust or corrosion? What does the spell cheque have on that?

pommiejohn said:

Bubblecar said:

I can merely repeat:

I am well aware that rust is not the only form of corrosion. I said “corrosion normally refers to rust”, which is true enough, and added that “this is not going to occur on the moon”, because in the context of the conversation, it seemed appropriate (Kingy explained that his source actually referred to Mars, a planet whose surface is subject to much rust (oxidization of iron).

Can I point out that it’s oxidation not oxidization? Even my spell checker agrees and gives me a red underline on the latter spelling :)

I get corrected on that by KJW too ie oxidation.

poikilotherm said:

pommiejohn said:

Bubblecar said:

I can merely repeat:

I am well aware that rust is not the only form of corrosion. I said “corrosion normally refers to rust”, which is true enough, and added that “this is not going to occur on the moon”, because in the context of the conversation, it seemed appropriate (Kingy explained that his source actually referred to Mars, a planet whose surface is subject to much rust (oxidization of iron).

Can I point out that it’s oxidation not oxidization? Even my spell checker agrees and gives me a red underline on the latter spelling :)

But is it rust or corrosion? What does the spell cheque have on that?

I know what it is but I’m not getting into a circular argument :)

pommiejohn said:

poikilotherm said:

pommiejohn said:

Can I point out that it’s oxidation not oxidization? Even my spell checker agrees and gives me a red underline on the latter spelling :)

But is it rust or corrosion? What does the spell cheque have on that?

I know what it is but I’m not getting into a circular argument :)

wot and break with a long held tradition!?

monkey skipper said:

pommiejohn said:

poikilotherm said:

But is it rust or corrosion? What does the spell cheque have on that?

I know what it is but I’m not getting into a circular argument :)

wot and break with a long held tradition!?

Yeah, well it’s Sunday morning and I’m off to Bunnings soon ( another long held tradition)

Rust is a very special form of oxidation, as it is not a pure oxide that that is being formed. If you take the mineral oxides of iron, such as magnetite (shiny black) or hematite (anything from shiny black to rust red), these aren’t “rust”. The hydrated oxides of iron, like limonite, are closer to the rust you will see on metallic iron. In short, “rust” is a hydrated iron oxide, with quite variable degrees of hydration.

Neil Young told us that rust never sleeps.

captain_spalding said:

Neil Young told us that rust never sleeps.

He’d be right, I reckon

Bubblecar said:

I can merely repeat:

I am well aware that rust is not the only form of corrosion. I said “corrosion normally refers to rust”, which is true enough, and added that “this is not going to occur on the moon”, because in the context of the conversation, it seemed appropriate (Kingy explained that his source actually referred to Mars, a planet whose surface is subject to much rust (oxidization of iron).

I think if you said ‘corrosion’, people would think of the green stuff on copper and brass, or something like an acid etching process.

>Can I point out that it’s oxidation not oxidization?

I stand corrected.

Bubblecar said:

>Can I point out that it’s oxidation not oxidization?

I stand corrected.

“Oxidation is a process where oxygen reacts with a substance. Oxidization is the action/reaction that happens when oxygen reacts with a substance”

HTH

(‘cos it didn’t help me)

William Farrer might disagree with all of you.

whats the difference between flammable and inflammable?

wookiemeister said:

whats the difference between flammable and inflammable?

in.

wookiemeister said:

whats the difference between flammable and inflammable?

An archaic emphatic prefix.

what religion does is nick ideas from elsewhere and then claim them for themselves

that’s why you can learn so much from religion – just don’t get sucked into believing there’s a god

its an intellectual exercise , it shouldn’t be taken seriously

morrie said:

William Farrer might disagree with all of you.

Why might he?

The Rev Dodgson said:

morrie said:

William Farrer might disagree with all of you.

Why might he?

Rust in wheat.

Angus Prune said:

Bubblecar said:

I can merely repeat:

I am well aware that rust is not the only form of corrosion. I said “corrosion normally refers to rust”, which is true enough, and added that “this is not going to occur on the moon”, because in the context of the conversation, it seemed appropriate (Kingy explained that his source actually referred to Mars, a planet whose surface is subject to much rust (oxidization of iron).

I think if you said ‘corrosion’, people would think of the green stuff on copper and brass, or something like an acid etching process.

I would have thought so as well, but perhaps that is because we both think of things in terms of chemistry. A google image search on the term ‘corrosion’ seems to support the Bubblecar view that the word is most commonly associated with iron.

jjjust moi said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

morrie said:

William Farrer might disagree with all of you.

Why might he?

Rust in wheat.

OK, I’ll blame Sunday mornings for my slowness on the uptake.

morrie said:

Angus Prune said:

Bubblecar said:

I can merely repeat:

I am well aware that rust is not the only form of corrosion. I said “corrosion normally refers to rust”, which is true enough, and added that “this is not going to occur on the moon”, because in the context of the conversation, it seemed appropriate (Kingy explained that his source actually referred to Mars, a planet whose surface is subject to much rust (oxidization of iron).

I think if you said ‘corrosion’, people would think of the green stuff on copper and brass, or something like an acid etching process.

I would have thought so as well, but perhaps that is because we both think of things in terms of chemistry. A google image search on the term ‘corrosion’ seems to support the Bubblecar view that the word is most commonly associated with iron.

I’m pretty sure that rust would form a large part of the learned considerations of the Australasian Corrosion Association.

rust
/rəst/
Noun
A reddish- or yellowish-brown flaky coating of iron oxide that is formed on iron or steel by oxidation, esp. in the presence of moisture.
Verb
Be affected with rust: “the blades had rusted away”; “rusting machinery”.
Synonyms
noun. blight – corrosion
verb. corrode – become rusty

rusting iron is scary stuff

once the process starts it gets worse and the structure of the metal then holds the moisture and sets in train a process that’s hard to stop

rusting reinforced concrete being a case in point

its hard to get the moisture from the metal or try to stop the rusting process due to its location

it makes me wonder if we should actually make cars from aluminium rather than steel

the car wouldn’t need some super protective paint or any other kind of treatment in its lifetime

> it makes me wonder if we should actually make cars from aluminium rather than steel

Been done.

jjjust moi said:

> it makes me wonder if we should actually make cars from aluminium rather than steel

Been done.

making all cars from aluminium

a lighter car would use less fuel

it would take less energy to brake

wookiemeister said:

jjjust moi said:

> it makes me wonder if we should actually make cars from aluminium rather than steel

Been done.

making all cars from aluminium

Are you suggesting that this should be achieved by legislation?

morrie said:

wookiemeister said:

jjjust moi said:

> it makes me wonder if we should actually make cars from aluminium rather than steel

Been done.

making all cars from aluminium

Are you suggesting that this should be achieved by legislation?

like lead free petrol and catalytic converters?

maybe

aluminium cars would be harder to panelbeat, especially if they needed to be pulled.

jjjust moi said:

> it makes me wonder if we should actually make cars from aluminium rather than steel

Been done.

Ally body E-type – drooollll

Geoff D said:

jjjust moi said:

> it makes me wonder if we should actually make cars from aluminium rather than steel

Been done.

Ally body E-type – drooollll

I was thinking more of the early Land Rovers…………undrool :)

landrovers were an alloy. duralium i think it is spelt.

wookiemeister said:

morrie said:

wookiemeister said:

making all cars from aluminium

Are you suggesting that this should be achieved by legislation?

like lead free petrol and catalytic converters?

maybe

But the unintended consequences of switching to aluminium are quite likely worse than the benefit in reduced corrosion and better fuel efficiency.

Put a price on CO2 emissions, and let the market work it out.

wookiemeister said:

morrie said:

wookiemeister said:

making all cars from aluminium

Are you suggesting that this should be achieved by legislation?

like lead free petrol and catalytic converters?

maybe

Don’t forget diesel bloody particulate bloody filters.

morrie said:

wookiemeister said:

morrie said:

Are you suggesting that this should be achieved by legislation?

like lead free petrol and catalytic converters?

maybe

Don’t forget diesel bloody particulate bloody filters.

probably clogging up lungs otherwise

wookiemeister said:

rusting iron is scary stuff

once the process starts it gets worse and the structure of the metal then holds the moisture and sets in train a process that’s hard to stop

rusting reinforced concrete being a case in point

its hard to get the moisture from the metal or try to stop the rusting process due to its location

it makes me wonder if we should actually make cars from aluminium rather than steel

the car wouldn’t need some super protective paint or any other kind of treatment in its lifetime

Landrovers were all aluminium.

ChrispenEvan said:

landrovers were an alloy. duralium i think it is spelt.

Yeah.. That’s the one.

roughbarked said:

Landrovers were all aluminium.

Apparently one of those runs on water.

roughbarked said:

Landrovers were all aluminium.

and ran on water, I believe.

snap

only the bodies were alloy. chassis was steel.

bhp building melb uses rust as a feature for the external steel work. as long as it doesn’t flake to reveal new metal it wont keep rusting.

that was the series 1AD, known colloquially by the name jesus christ, landrover?

Ha!

wookiemeister said:

a lighter car would use less fuel

it would take less energy to brake

I am not convinced that the amount of energy required to brake a car is very important to eithe design engineers or end users.

Stealth said:

wookiemeister said:

a lighter car would use less fuel

it would take less energy to brake

I am not convinced that the amount of energy required to brake a car is very important to eithe design engineers or end users.

unless you needed to brake fast

this never happens on the road – right?

a lighter car means less momentum, meaning less damage if you hit something, unless you have a head on with something much bigger but in practical terms you’d be dead anyway

wookiemeister said:

a lighter car means less momentum, meaning less damage if you hit something, unless you have a head on with something much bigger but in practical terms you’d be dead anyway

Not really relevant. Modern cars are designed to dissapate energy by crumpling. At the end of the day, you are still trying to protect the occupants by providing the longest time possible to deccelerate in the crash. A well designed light car should have the same amount of damage as a well designed heavy car, with all other factors being equal in the crash.

Stealth said:

wookiemeister said:

a lighter car means less momentum, meaning less damage if you hit something, unless you have a head on with something much bigger but in practical terms you’d be dead anyway

Not really relevant. Modern cars are designed to dissapate energy by crumpling. At the end of the day, you are still trying to protect the occupants by providing the longest time possible to deccelerate in the crash. A well designed light car should have the same amount of damage as a well designed heavy car, with all other factors being equal in the crash.

a heavier vehicle will cause more damage for the same velocity

wookiemeister said:

Stealth said:

wookiemeister said:

a lighter car means less momentum, meaning less damage if you hit something, unless you have a head on with something much bigger but in practical terms you’d be dead anyway

Not really relevant. Modern cars are designed to dissapate energy by crumpling. At the end of the day, you are still trying to protect the occupants by providing the longest time possible to deccelerate in the crash. A well designed light car should have the same amount of damage as a well designed heavy car, with all other factors being equal in the crash.

a heavier vehicle will cause more damage for the same velocity

It would do more damage to what ever it hits, but not to itself. The design parameters are the same for a light or heavy vehicle, stop the occupants using the full 1m of decelleration space available. The heavier vehicle will dissapate more energy, but that does not equate to more damage.

Some of the earliest production cars had aluminium bodies:

I wonder how many years salary that $6500 was?

My first car (a then 20 year old Morris Oxford seris MO) cost me $35, with 6 months registration.

Michael V said:

I wonder how many years salary that $6500 was?

My first car (a then 20 year old Morris Oxford seris MO) cost me $35, with 6 months registration.

How many years salary was that MV?

Stealth said:

Michael V said:

I wonder how many years salary that $6500 was?

My first car (a then 20 year old Morris Oxford seris MO) cost me $35, with 6 months registration.

How many years salary was that MV?

.

Much much less than a year. I was working part time at a hamburger shop then. Probably about a week’s wages, or four weeks dole.

One of these grumpy looking critters, Michael?

Yes.

The Rev Dodgson said:

Oxidation is a process where oxygen reacts with a substance.

The chemistry definition of oxidation is the removal of electrons from one substance by another. The complementary process is called “reduction”.

monkey skipper said:

pommiejohn said:

Can I point out that it’s oxidation not oxidization? Even my spell checker agrees and gives me a red underline on the latter spelling :)

I get corrected on that by KJW too ie oxidation.

Yes I do. :-) It irritates me to hear the word “oxidization”.

KJW said:

monkey skipper said:

pommiejohn said:

Can I point out that it’s oxidation not oxidization? Even my spell checker agrees and gives me a red underline on the latter spelling :)

I get corrected on that by KJW too ie oxidation.

Yes I do. :-) It irritates me to hear the word “oxidization”.

Ditto.

‘Emulsification’ instead of emulsion (on MasterChef) gives me the irrits too!

KJW said:

monkey skipper said:

pommiejohn said:

Can I point out that it’s oxidation not oxidization? Even my spell checker agrees and gives me a red underline on the latter spelling :)

I get corrected on that by KJW too ie oxidation.

Yes I do. :-) It irritates me to hear the word “oxidization”.

Should I say nuclear too?

I’m so inspirated right now.

monkey skipper said:

Should I say nuclear too?

Yes you should. ;-)

monkey skipper said:

KJW said:

monkey skipper said:

I get corrected on that by KJW too ie oxidation.

Yes I do. :-) It irritates me to hear the word “oxidization”.

Should I say nuclear too?

No, nuclear reactions do not involve oxidizationisms.

KJW said:

monkey skipper said:

pommiejohn said:

Can I point out that it’s oxidation not oxidization? Even my spell checker agrees and gives me a red underline on the latter spelling :)

I get corrected on that by KJW too ie oxidation.

Yes I do. :-) It irritates me to hear the word “oxidization”.

If when you add oxygen to something, you oxidize it, rather than oxiding it, why is this process not called oxidization, rather than oxidation?

Stealth said:

wookiemeister said:

Stealth said:

Not really relevant. Modern cars are designed to dissapate energy by crumpling. At the end of the day, you are still trying to protect the occupants by providing the longest time possible to deccelerate in the crash. A well designed light car should have the same amount of damage as a well designed heavy car, with all other factors being equal in the crash.

a heavier vehicle will cause more damage for the same velocity

It would do more damage to what ever it hits, but not to itself. The design parameters are the same for a light or heavy vehicle, stop the occupants using the full 1m of decelleration space available. The heavier vehicle will dissapate more energy, but that does not equate to more damage.

would a lighter vehicle have done this at the same speed?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Yes I do. :-) It irritates me to hear the word “oxidization”.

If when you add oxygen to something, you oxidize it, rather than oxiding it, why is this process not called oxidization, rather than oxidation?

I can’t answer that. All I know is that chemists speak of “oxidation”, never “oxidization”.

KJW said:

The Rev Dodgson said:

Yes I do. :-) It irritates me to hear the word “oxidization”.

If when you add oxygen to something, you oxidize it, rather than oxiding it, why is this process not called oxidization, rather than oxidation?

I can’t answer that. All I know is that chemists speak of “oxidation”, never “oxidization”.

Go on Rev , just say the other one at lease once!

what about oxidisation?

;-)

It looks nicer with the “s”.

I should remark that sodium hydroxide is described as “corrosive”, even though its action is rarely oxidation.

wookiemeister said:

it makes me wonder if we should actually make cars from aluminium rather than steel

Aluminium also forms an oxide layer when exposed to the air. However, this oxide layer is very thin, transparent, and protects the underlying metal from further attack by the air. The true reactivity of the aluminium metal can be seen where the protective oxide layer is unable to form, such as in the presence of mercury which forms an amalgam with aluminium.

By contrast, rust is porous and offers no protection against further attack. However, iron can be passivated by treating it with concentrated nitric acid or phosphoric acid.

Wooks is right, alloy cars would be a better thing due to the lightness.
As the great Colin Chapman from Lotus said, “increase simplicity, add lightness”.
True enough they’re harder to repair but the bent panels are worth far more than old steel ones, so a recycling system would make things cheaper.

KJW said:

wookiemeister said:

it makes me wonder if we should actually make cars from aluminium rather than steel

Aluminium also forms an oxide layer when exposed to the air. However, this oxide layer is very thin, transparent, and protects the underlying metal from further attack by the air. The true reactivity of the aluminium metal can be seen where the protective oxide layer is unable to form, such as in the presence of mercury which forms an amalgam with aluminium.

By contrast, rust is porous and offers no protection against further attack. However, iron can be passivated by treating it with concentrated nitric acid or phosphoric acid.

so with the mercury the aluminium just reacts like crazy

i’m just reading that sci fi tale – reads like an average night here

wookiemeister said:

so with the mercury the aluminium just reacts like crazy

i’m just reading that sci fi tale – reads like an average night here

Yep, mercury eats away at the aluminium quite aggressively. If it’s carried in an aircraft there’s a bunch of restrictions to make sure it doesn’t escape the container. There was a near-new Airbus (I think) that was nearly written-off because mercury got spilt on the main spar.

Spiny Norman said:

Wooks is right, alloy cars would be a better thing due to the lightness.
As the great Colin Chapman from Lotus said, “increase simplicity, add lightness”.
True enough they’re harder to repair but the bent panels are worth far more than old steel ones, so a recycling system would make things cheaper.

I took the spare wheel out of my small car

it accelerates much quicker and doesn’t use as much fuel

if you could make the wheels and bodywork lighter that’s how you would keep improving the mileage

the evolution of the 4 stroke reciprocal engine is at an end – the next and easiest ways to improve efficiency is to drop the weight of the car

in city/ urban areas the acceleration aspect of driving eats fuel, drop the weight and improve efficiency

i’ve changed my mind with hybrids, they are a waste of time if they are using batteries

wookiemeister said:

so with the mercury the aluminium just reacts like crazy

Mercury-filled thermometers are considered quite hazardous in aircraft.

Spiny Norman said:

wookiemeister said:

so with the mercury the aluminium just reacts like crazy

i’m just reading that sci fi tale – reads like an average night here

Yep, mercury eats away at the aluminium quite aggressively. If it’s carried in an aircraft there’s a bunch of restrictions to make sure it doesn’t escape the container. There was a near-new Airbus (I think) that was nearly written-off because mercury got spilt on the main spar.

Loves Platinum as well.

Spiny Norman said:

wookiemeister said:

so with the mercury the aluminium just reacts like crazy

i’m just reading that sci fi tale – reads like an average night here

Yep, mercury eats away at the aluminium quite aggressively. If it’s carried in an aircraft there’s a bunch of restrictions to make sure it doesn’t escape the container. There was a near-new Airbus (I think) that was nearly written-off because mercury got spilt on the main spar.

as this is probably a terrorist free zone

couldn’t a terrorist simply take a small vial on board and then slip the mercury into the fuselage of the aircraft ie you drill a small hole and release the mercury into the airframe?

you wouldn’t actually destroy the aircraft but you would still spread fear

plastic and glue for cars of the future. getting more and more glue in them already. strong stuff.

ChrispenEvan said:

plastic and glue for cars of the future. getting more and more glue in them already. strong stuff.

3D print them is the next step :)

wookiemeister said:

I took the spare wheel out of my small car

it accelerates much quicker and doesn’t use as much fuel

if you could make the wheels and bodywork lighter that’s how you would keep improving the mileage

the evolution of the 4 stroke reciprocal engine is at an end – the next and easiest ways to improve efficiency is to drop the weight of the car

in city/ urban areas the acceleration aspect of driving eats fuel, drop the weight and improve efficiency

i’ve changed my mind with hybrids, they are a waste of time if they are using batteries

Careful removing the spare wheel from your car, technically Mr Plod can defect you for that. You might be able to talk your way out of it if you carry a tin of tyre inflating goo though.
But yes any mass you can remove from the car is a good thing – with a balanace of removing the safety gear of course.
And you are quite right in saying that you get a lot of benefit from reducing the rotational inertia of wheels, it wy racing cars often use alloy ones. The ones used on my racer can’t have the tyres changed on a regular machine as it’ll dent the rims, they have to be done by hand the old fashioned way.
Another good mod is to fit a light alloy flywheel to the engine.

ChrispenEvan said:

plastic and glue for cars of the future. getting more and more glue in them already. strong stuff.

but the problem might be recycling ability

my 5 year car idea where supermarkets start selling cars could use the glued cars idea

getting rid of welding and bending metal could make the production much cheaper?

printing out cars instead?

jjjust moi said:

Spiny Norman said:

wookiemeister said:

so with the mercury the aluminium just reacts like crazy

i’m just reading that sci fi tale – reads like an average night here

Yep, mercury eats away at the aluminium quite aggressively. If it’s carried in an aircraft there’s a bunch of restrictions to make sure it doesn’t escape the container. There was a near-new Airbus (I think) that was nearly written-off because mercury got spilt on the main spar.

Loves Platinum as well.

From Wikipedia:

“Mercury dissolves many other metals such as gold and silver to form amalgams. Iron is an exception and iron flasks have been traditionally used to trade mercury. Several other first row transition metals with the exception of manganese, copper and zinc are reluctant to form amalgams. Other elements that do not readily form amalgams with mercury include platinum and a few other metals. Sodium amalgam is a common reducing agent in organic synthesis, and is also used in high-pressure sodium lamps.

Mercury readily combines with aluminium to form a mercury-aluminium amalgam when the two pure metals come into contact. Since the amalgam destroys the aluminium oxide layer which protects metallic aluminium from oxidizing in-depth (as in iron rusting), even small amounts of mercury can seriously corrode aluminium. For this reason, mercury is not allowed aboard an aircraft under most circumstances because of the risk of it forming an amalgam with exposed aluminium parts in the aircraft.”

just as a further point

I wonder if it wouldn’t be a bad idea to have a restricted section in this forum where various ideas could be explored without speading these ideas to someone that might do something silly with them

just as a further point

I wonder if it wouldn’t be a bad idea to have a restricted section in this forum where various ideas could be explored without speading these ideas to someone that might do something silly with them

KJW said:

jjjust moi said:

Spiny Norman said:

Yep, mercury eats away at the aluminium quite aggressively. If it’s carried in an aircraft there’s a bunch of restrictions to make sure it doesn’t escape the container. There was a near-new Airbus (I think) that was nearly written-off because mercury got spilt on the main spar.

Loves Platinum as well.

From Wikipedia:

“Mercury dissolves many other metals such as gold and silver to form amalgams. Iron is an exception and iron flasks have been traditionally used to trade mercury. Several other first row transition metals with the exception of manganese, copper and zinc are reluctant to form amalgams. Other elements that do not readily form amalgams with mercury include platinum and a few other metals. Sodium amalgam is a common reducing agent in organic synthesis, and is also used in high-pressure sodium lamps.

Mercury readily combines with aluminium to form a mercury-aluminium amalgam when the two pure metals come into contact. Since the amalgam destroys the aluminium oxide layer which protects metallic aluminium from oxidizing in-depth (as in iron rusting), even small amounts of mercury can seriously corrode aluminium. For this reason, mercury is not allowed aboard an aircraft under most circumstances because of the risk of it forming an amalgam with exposed aluminium parts in the aircraft.”

One of our not so clever Chem Engineers for some reason put some in a platinum crucible in a furnace once.

Result no crucible

Don’t ask me why he did it, but there was hell to pay.

Spiny Norman said:

wookiemeister said:

I took the spare wheel out of my small car

it accelerates much quicker and doesn’t use as much fuel

if you could make the wheels and bodywork lighter that’s how you would keep improving the mileage

the evolution of the 4 stroke reciprocal engine is at an end – the next and easiest ways to improve efficiency is to drop the weight of the car

in city/ urban areas the acceleration aspect of driving eats fuel, drop the weight and improve efficiency

i’ve changed my mind with hybrids, they are a waste of time if they are using batteries

Careful removing the spare wheel from your car, technically Mr Plod can defect you for that. You might be able to talk your way out of it if you carry a tin of tyre inflating goo though.
But yes any mass you can remove from the car is a good thing – with a balanace of removing the safety gear of course.
And you are quite right in saying that you get a lot of benefit from reducing the rotational inertia of wheels, it wy racing cars often use alloy ones. The ones used on my racer can’t have the tyres changed on a regular machine as it’ll dent the rims, they have to be done by hand the old fashioned way.
Another good mod is to fit a light alloy flywheel to the engine.

yeah I think this has been discussed before, you mentioned the cops fining you for not having the spare wheel. I have thought of removing the back seat as well but i’m not sure if the back seat has that much weight. removing the back seat is another thing the cops could get you for BUT what you do is tell them you have removed it to move furniture around. when the back seat is removed from a normal car it becomes classified a s a commercial vehicle BUT if the back seat has been removed temporarily for some appropriate reason its ok

you mentioned the flywheel as well but I think you mentioned you mentioned you’d need it made specially for it AND I this might require a mechanics certificate?????

jjjust moi said:

KJW said:

jjjust moi said:

Loves Platinum as well.

From Wikipedia:

“Mercury dissolves many other metals such as gold and silver to form amalgams. Iron is an exception and iron flasks have been traditionally used to trade mercury. Several other first row transition metals with the exception of manganese, copper and zinc are reluctant to form amalgams. Other elements that do not readily form amalgams with mercury include platinum and a few other metals. Sodium amalgam is a common reducing agent in organic synthesis, and is also used in high-pressure sodium lamps.

Mercury readily combines with aluminium to form a mercury-aluminium amalgam when the two pure metals come into contact. Since the amalgam destroys the aluminium oxide layer which protects metallic aluminium from oxidizing in-depth (as in iron rusting), even small amounts of mercury can seriously corrode aluminium. For this reason, mercury is not allowed aboard an aircraft under most circumstances because of the risk of it forming an amalgam with exposed aluminium parts in the aircraft.”

One of our not so clever Chem Engineers for some reason put some in a platinum crucible in a furnace once.

Result no crucible

Don’t ask me why he did it, but there was hell to pay.

he should have cleared off quick out of the room before they could finger him for the damage

you could remove the glass on the car and make it Perspex instead, the only glass could be the front windshield. Perspex would be lighter than glass and hence over the life of the car it would save fuel

you could remove the metal bonnet cover with plastic?

wookiemeister said:

yeah I think this has been discussed before, you mentioned the cops fining you for not having the spare wheel. I have thought of removing the back seat as well but i’m not sure if the back seat has that much weight. removing the back seat is another thing the cops could get you for BUT what you do is tell them you have removed it to move furniture around. when the back seat is removed from a normal car it becomes classified a s a commercial vehicle BUT if the back seat has been removed temporarily for some appropriate reason its ok

you mentioned the flywheel as well but I think you mentioned you mentioned you’d need it made specially for it AND I this might require a mechanics certificate?????

No you can’t just remove the back seat any time you like, unfortunately, as the car will have a placard on it somewhere that says how many seats it has. If you have more or less than that, then Mr Plod can ping you. It is possible, however, to get an engineer to certify it to have more or fewer seats.

You don’t need a certificate for a light flywheel.

jjjust moi said:

One of our not so clever Chem Engineers for some reason put some in a platinum crucible in a furnace once.

Result no crucible

Don’t ask me why he did it, but there was hell to pay.

The Wikipedia article says that platinum doesn’t readily form an amalgam with mercury. Possibly the high temperature of the furnace accelerated this.

Spiny Norman said:

wookiemeister said:

yeah I think this has been discussed before, you mentioned the cops fining you for not having the spare wheel. I have thought of removing the back seat as well but i’m not sure if the back seat has that much weight. removing the back seat is another thing the cops could get you for BUT what you do is tell them you have removed it to move furniture around. when the back seat is removed from a normal car it becomes classified a s a commercial vehicle BUT if the back seat has been removed temporarily for some appropriate reason its ok

you mentioned the flywheel as well but I think you mentioned you mentioned you’d need it made specially for it AND I this might require a mechanics certificate?????

No you can’t just remove the back seat any time you like, unfortunately, as the car will have a placard on it somewhere that says how many seats it has. If you have more or less than that, then Mr Plod can ping you. It is possible, however, to get an engineer to certify it to have more or fewer seats.

You don’t need a certificate for a light flywheel.

you can, I went looking last time it was discussed, its ok if you tell the copper its temporary

Spiny Norman said:

wookiemeister said:

yeah I think this has been discussed before, you mentioned the cops fining you for not having the spare wheel. I have thought of removing the back seat as well but i’m not sure if the back seat has that much weight. removing the back seat is another thing the cops could get you for BUT what you do is tell them you have removed it to move furniture around. when the back seat is removed from a normal car it becomes classified a s a commercial vehicle BUT if the back seat has been removed temporarily for some appropriate reason its ok

you mentioned the flywheel as well but I think you mentioned you mentioned you’d need it made specially for it AND I this might require a mechanics certificate?????

No you can’t just remove the back seat any time you like, unfortunately, as the car will have a placard on it somewhere that says how many seats it has. If you have more or less than that, then Mr Plod can ping you. It is possible, however, to get an engineer to certify it to have more or fewer seats.

You don’t need a certificate for a light flywheel.

you can, I went looking last time it was discussed, its ok if you tell the copper its temporary

wookiemeister said:

you could remove the glass on the car and make it Perspex instead, the only glass could be the front windshield. Perspex would be lighter than glass and hence over the life of the car it would save fuel

you could remove the metal bonnet cover with plastic?

I’d leave the front & rear windscreens in place but you can certainly change the side windows to plastic no probs.
Just put a thin fibreglass bonnet & boot on the car – but be aware that the cost of making them will take a rather long time to recoup from the saving in fuel.

http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=90562

wookiemeister said:

you can, I went looking last time it was discussed, its ok if you tell the copper its temporary

Okay, I think it’s different where I am though.
In Queensland it’s rapidly getting to the point where they will shoot before asking questions if they suspect you have done anything wrong.

Spiny Norman said:

wookiemeister said:

you could remove the glass on the car and make it Perspex instead, the only glass could be the front windshield. Perspex would be lighter than glass and hence over the life of the car it would save fuel

you could remove the metal bonnet cover with plastic?

I’d leave the front & rear windscreens in place but you can certainly change the side windows to plastic no probs.
Just put a thin fibreglass bonnet & boot on the car – but be aware that the cost of making them will take a rather long time to recoup from the saving in fuel.

yeah you’d need to do this at the very beginning

Spiny Norman said:

wookiemeister said:

you can, I went looking last time it was discussed, its ok if you tell the copper its temporary

Okay, I think it’s different where I am though.
In Queensland it’s rapidly getting to the point where they will shoot before asking questions if they suspect you have done anything wrong.

yeah I think there was some dispute last time

if its temp then you sell them some story to placate them

the only time I get pulled over is for a breath test, normally when I slow to pull over they wave me on.

I’d also want a special indent where I can keep a potplant.

Divine Angel said:

I’d also want a special indent where I can keep a potplant.

you could have a commemorative potplant if you want

Didn’t Henry Ford demonstrate a car body made from a polymer containing hemp fibre?

There’s no way that would corrode or even rust.

The Model J Ford?

morrie said:

The Model J Ford?

I’d have to google it but I recall seeing him whack it with a big sledge hammer and it bounced off without cracking or denting.

roughbarked said:

morrie said:

The Model J Ford?

I’d have to google it but I recall seeing him whack it with a big sledge hammer and it bounced off without cracking or denting.

Here apparently is the gist.

http://theangryhistorian.blogspot.com.au/2010/10/hemp-car-myth-busted.html

It appears that we will never know until somebody tries again.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean_Car

roughbarked said:

It appears that we will never know until somebody tries again.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean_Car

Pardon? A sibeen car? Why would we want that?

;)

kii said:

roughbarked said:

It appears that we will never know until somebody tries again.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean_Car

Pardon? A sibeen car? Why would we want that?

;)

as long as it wasn’t a Comma. ;)

roughbarked said:

kii said:

roughbarked said:

It appears that we will never know until somebody tries again.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean_Car

Pardon? A sibeen car? Why would we want that?

;)

as long as it wasn’t a Comma. ;)

shoulda said: as long as it wasn’t a Commer, you hear?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commer

Good Glorious Morning to you all..

another fabulous weekend, to be replaced by another spectacular week…

except that I cut my finger ..You know how sometimes you cut yourself and you are borderline – I think that needs a stitch..
I think fingers are deceptive since there’s a lot crammed into the small space, so when they are cut they seem to bulge out.. anyway.. I think i should have had stitch or a steri strip or something, but will find out the awesome power of the J&J finger bandage and wait and see. It’s not an important finger, but it’s mine and I’d like to keep it.

ad I very much doubt it would form rust..

sorry, tin roof, rusted.

Arts said:

ad I very much doubt it would form rust..

sorry, tin roof, rusted.

The peculiar properties of tin, especially its malleability, its brilliancy and the slowness with which it rusts make it very serviceable. With other metals it forms valuable alloys, as bronze, gun metal, bell metal, pewter and solder. It is not easily oxidized in the air, and is used chiefly to coat iron to protect it from rusting.

Morning all.

Arts said:

It’s not an important finger, but it’s mine and I’d like to keep it.

I have often found skin closure strips as good or better than stitches.

Rule 303 said:

Morning all.

Arts said:

It’s not an important finger, but it’s mine and I’d like to keep it.

I have often found skin closure strips as good or better than stitches.

when I cut the back of my hand open I needed to get stitches but I didn’t have the time as I was still working, I rolled into a local walk medical centre showed them my hand and asked them if I could have some skin strips to close the wound up.

they showed me to the nurse who looked at it threw some disinfectant on it, dried it and then just put the strips on it

I thanked them and walked out without doing any paperwork

the stupid bitch who was the bosses wife told me it was it wasn’t such a problem, it was one of those cuts that had completely sliced the skin open

the skin strips did their job anyway and I didn’t want to waste any time waiting at a medical centre

wookiemeister said:

Rule 303 said:

Morning all.

Arts said:

It’s not an important finger, but it’s mine and I’d like to keep it.

I have often found skin closure strips as good or better than stitches.

when I cut the back of my hand open I needed to get stitches but I didn’t have the time as I was still working, I rolled into a local walk medical centre showed them my hand and asked them if I could have some skin strips to close the wound up.

they showed me to the nurse who looked at it threw some disinfectant on it, dried it and then just put the strips on it

I thanked them and walked out without doing any paperwork

the stupid bitch who was the bosses wife told me it was it wasn’t such a problem, it was one of those cuts that had completely sliced the skin open

the skin strips did their job anyway and I didn’t want to waste any time waiting at a medical centre

next time I might just use sellotape

wookiemeister said:

wookiemeister said:

Rule 303 said:

Morning all.

I have often found skin closure strips as good or better than stitches.

when I cut the back of my hand open I needed to get stitches but I didn’t have the time as I was still working, I rolled into a local walk medical centre showed them my hand and asked them if I could have some skin strips to close the wound up.

they showed me to the nurse who looked at it threw some disinfectant on it, dried it and then just put the strips on it

I thanked them and walked out without doing any paperwork

the stupid bitch who was the bosses wife told me it was it wasn’t such a problem, it was one of those cuts that had completely sliced the skin open

the skin strips did their job anyway and I didn’t want to waste any time waiting at a medical centre

next time I might just use sellotape

I just used band aids and replaced every day.. kept it out of dirt and soap etc and it looks pretty good now (7 days later) the skin has joined nice and cleanly and no abnormal lump. Still sensitive and tender to touch.. but healing nicely I think.. considering.

Arts said:

wookiemeister said:

wookiemeister said:

when I cut the back of my hand open I needed to get stitches but I didn’t have the time as I was still working, I rolled into a local walk medical centre showed them my hand and asked them if I could have some skin strips to close the wound up.

they showed me to the nurse who looked at it threw some disinfectant on it, dried it and then just put the strips on it

I thanked them and walked out without doing any paperwork

the stupid bitch who was the bosses wife told me it was it wasn’t such a problem, it was one of those cuts that had completely sliced the skin open

the skin strips did their job anyway and I didn’t want to waste any time waiting at a medical centre

next time I might just use sellotape

I just used band aids and replaced every day.. kept it out of dirt and soap etc and it looks pretty good now (7 days later) the skin has joined nice and cleanly and no abnormal lump. Still sensitive and tender to touch.. but healing nicely I think.. considering.

I pulled out a 16mm long needle out of my thumb recently after prising it out with a Stanley knife and then grabbing the exposed head with tweezeers

wookiemeister said:

Arts said:

wookiemeister said:

next time I might just use sellotape

I just used band aids and replaced every day.. kept it out of dirt and soap etc and it looks pretty good now (7 days later) the skin has joined nice and cleanly and no abnormal lump. Still sensitive and tender to touch.. but healing nicely I think.. considering.

I pulled out a 16mm long needle out of my thumb recently after prising it out with a Stanley knife and then grabbing the exposed head with tweezeers

when was your last tetanus shot? :)

Arts said:

wookiemeister said:

Arts said:

I just used band aids and replaced every day.. kept it out of dirt and soap etc and it looks pretty good now (7 days later) the skin has joined nice and cleanly and no abnormal lump. Still sensitive and tender to touch.. but healing nicely I think.. considering.

I pulled out a 16mm long needle out of my thumb recently after prising it out with a Stanley knife and then grabbing the exposed head with tweezeers

when was your last tetanus shot? :)

about two months ago

i’m thinking of doing an experiment and getting myself loaded up with different vaccines to see if anything happens

theres heaps of vaccines you can have

wookiemeister said:

Arts said:

wookiemeister said:

I pulled out a 16mm long needle out of my thumb recently after prising it out with a Stanley knife and then grabbing the exposed head with tweezeers

when was your last tetanus shot? :)

about two months ago

i’m thinking of doing an experiment and getting myself loaded up with different vaccines to see if anything happens

theres heaps of vaccines you can have

I definitely think that’s an experiment worthy of the sacrifices…