The Food Pyramid, first released in Sweden in the early 70s, has been reviewed and is due for re-release.

Thinking about this, I got to wondering whether we thought the portions represented food volume or energy content. ‘Why?’ I hear you ask. Well, there’s a big difference in energy content by volume between the four macronutrients.

So which is it, in your mind – Food volume or energy content?

I would take it to mean volume.

volume

I believe it is usually represented as “servings” which would (roughly) correlate to volume.

the food pyramid posters always had the words ‘eat more’ at the bottom and ‘eat less’ at the top… or words to that effects..

the food pyramid posters always had the words ‘eat more’ at the bottom and ‘eat less’ at the top… or words to that effects..
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The could be misleading. It might make people think they need to eat more of the “eat more” group than they currently do, and similarly, the “eat less” group, mutatis mutandis.

The reason I’m curious is my experience with people’s perception of energy density. It is extremely common to vastly under-estimate the density of some sources.

There’s some public education authorities who have already abandoned the Pyramid in favour of a Pie Chart or divided ‘Plate’.

Well that also makes me think it is definitely meant to be volume, Rule. It is meant as something everyone can easily understand. Anyone can compare volumes without any extra info, whereas most people probably don’t have the knowledge to even roughly compare energy content without a calculator and a table. So yeah … pretty sure it is meant to be volumes.

Arts said:

Not one mention of the two most important food groups; beer and wine.

Massive fail.

Putting pasta and rice in the same group as water seems a bit misleading.

Just to remind you what to cook the rice and pasta in.

dv said:

So yeah … pretty sure it is meant to be volumes.

JFTR, I think you’re right.

As for whether the sliced Pyramid is a good way to communicate this concept to general public, I’m doubtful.

Bubblecar said:

Putting pasta and rice in the same group as water seems a bit misleading.

Oh Christ… here we go.

Leaving out the Alcohols was enough for Sibeen to dismiss it – He’s likely to completely lose his shit over water….

As for whether the sliced Pyramid is a good way to communicate this concept to general public, I’m doubtful.
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Quite.

The myPlate concept seems better.

Rule 303 said:

dv said:

So yeah … pretty sure it is meant to be volumes.

JFTR, I think you’re right.

As for whether the sliced Pyramid is a good way to communicate this concept to general public, I’m doubtful.

I like the way they put all the kj values on take away/fast food.

You don’t think ‘eat more of this type of food and less of this type’ is clear enough?

dv said:

Just to remind you what to cook the rice and pasta in.

I usually boil them in treacle.

Maybe that’s what I’m doing wrong.

You don’t think ‘eat more of this type of food and less of this type’ is clear enough?
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Not as clear as saying “eat twice as much of this food as that food type”.

I mean the USDA one has carbs at the bottom. A heck of a lot of people do not need to get the message that they need to eat more carbs.

Arts said:

You don’t think ‘eat more of this type of food and less of this type’ is clear enough?

For an entirely rational eater, sure.

For everyone else, the evidence very strongly suggests not. There’s a myriad of influences, I know, and modern life in first-world countries hurries many down the path of unhealthy eating habits.

I think the Pyramid (or whatever other device you chose) probably needs a wedge that clearly says ‘Do not eat unless you’re trying to gain weight’ because most people are not getting the message.

Rule 303 said:

Arts said:

You don’t think ‘eat more of this type of food and less of this type’ is clear enough?

For an entirely rational eater, sure.

For everyone else, the evidence very strongly suggests not. There’s a myriad of influences, I know, and modern life in first-world countries hurries many down the path of unhealthy eating habits.

I think the Pyramid (or whatever other device you chose) probably needs a wedge that clearly says ‘Do not eat unless you’re trying to gain weight’ because most people are not getting the message.

so, it’s not the pyramid that needs some work but the attitudes of people who don’t eat ‘rationally’ (haha)

It has been my experience that most people know what they are eating is not doing them any health favours, but they choose to indulge anyway for whatever comfort it gives them.

so, it’s not the pyramid that needs some work but the attitudes of people who don’t eat ‘rationally’ (haha)
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I don’t agree. I think the pyramid needs work (or did need work, before it was largely abandoned some years ago…)

dv said:

so, it’s not the pyramid that needs some work but the attitudes of people who don’t eat ‘rationally’ (haha)
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I don’t agree. I think the pyramid needs work (or did need work, before it was largely abandoned some years ago…)

so, what do they use now? portion control?

so, what do they use now? portion control?
—-

myPlate.gov…

Arts said:

dv said:

so, it’s not the pyramid that needs some work but the attitudes of people who don’t eat ‘rationally’ (haha)
—

I don’t agree. I think the pyramid needs work (or did need work, before it was largely abandoned some years ago…)

so, what do they use now? portion control?

i have pretty much always used portion control, but i did for a long time try to eat foods in the ratio suggested by the food pyramid

hmmmm… that’s very pretty…

Arts said:

so, it’s not the pyramid that needs some work but the attitudes of people who don’t eat ‘rationally’ (haha)

Seems like too much to ask.

Arts said:

It has been my experience that most people know what they are eating is not doing them any health favours, but they choose to indulge anyway for whatever comfort it gives them.

Sure. I know people who have a food for each mood. Like anniversaries and Diamonds, they tend to converge toward the fats and alcohols.

I am not suggesting it would be easy to de-couple eating and emotional state for these people, more that they have very little hope of making better choices if they don’t understand the basics. There’s no hope if they are not confronted by the reality of what they’re putting in their mouths.

I am struggling with these notions – I recently found myself asking a heavily obese woman if she had decided upon a goal weight, because on her current trajectory, she could be at 250kg within 10 years. Possibly not the best strategy…

stumpy_seahorse said:

Arts said:

dv said:

so, it’s not the pyramid that needs some work but the attitudes of people who don’t eat ‘rationally’ (haha)
—

I don’t agree. I think the pyramid needs work (or did need work, before it was largely abandoned some years ago…)

so, what do they use now? portion control?

i have pretty much always used portion control, but i did for a long time try to eat foods in the ratio suggested by the food pyramid

I have always used the ‘eat fresh and less processed’ method and watched energy in = energy out…

I was brought up to ‘eat everything on my plate’ – but given that my parents were war babies and grew up in a time when eating all you could while it was there was a common mentality (my mother still to this day ‘hoards’ supplies in her panty – ten jars of coffee, flour, tins etc) I understand why they pushed that attitude.

Given how different things are now so must our attitudes change. I always allow my children to leave a small portion of food on their plate if they choose to do so.. I know mum hates it, but I think it’s important they know they can say ‘no’ to what’s in front of them.

Arts said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

Arts said:

so, what do they use now? portion control?

i have pretty much always used portion control, but i did for a long time try to eat foods in the ratio suggested by the food pyramid

I have always used the ‘eat fresh and less processed’ method and watched energy in = energy out…

I was brought up to ‘eat everything on my plate’ – but given that my parents were war babies and grew up in a time when eating all you could while it was there was a common mentality (my mother still to this day ‘hoards’ supplies in her panty – ten jars of coffee, flour, tins etc) I understand why they pushed that attitude.

Given how different things are now so must our attitudes change. I always allow my children to leave a small portion of food on their plate if they choose to do so.. I know mum hates it, but I think it’s important they know they can say ‘no’ to what’s in front of them.

i’ve always eaten everything on my plate, as the amount on my plate has always been dependant on the amount of insulin i had already given (a bit less strict now i have the insulim pump)

Arts said:

Given how different things are now so must our attitudes change. I always allow my children to leave a small portion of food on their plate if they choose to do so.. I know mum hates it, but I think it’s important they know they can say ‘no’ to what’s in front of them.

_________________________
Hello, long time, no drive by.

That’s good arts. I find it very hard to leave food and very very difficult to identify when I am full. – More power to you for letting the kids actually notice that stuff.

stumpy_seahorse said:

Arts said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

i have pretty much always used portion control, but i did for a long time try to eat foods in the ratio suggested by the food pyramid

I have always used the ‘eat fresh and less processed’ method and watched energy in = energy out…

I was brought up to ‘eat everything on my plate’ – but given that my parents were war babies and grew up in a time when eating all you could while it was there was a common mentality (my mother still to this day ‘hoards’ supplies in her panty – ten jars of coffee, flour, tins etc) I understand why they pushed that attitude.

Given how different things are now so must our attitudes change. I always allow my children to leave a small portion of food on their plate if they choose to do so.. I know mum hates it, but I think it’s important they know they can say ‘no’ to what’s in front of them.

i’ve always eaten everything on my plate, as the amount on my plate has always been dependant on the amount of insulin i had already given (a bit less strict now i have the insulim pump)

my mum invites you over for a meal… :)

It’s a jennajones!

Arts said:

stumpy_seahorse said:

Arts said:

I have always used the ‘eat fresh and less processed’ method and watched energy in = energy out…

I was brought up to ‘eat everything on my plate’ – but given that my parents were war babies and grew up in a time when eating all you could while it was there was a common mentality (my mother still to this day ‘hoards’ supplies in her panty – ten jars of coffee, flour, tins etc) I understand why they pushed that attitude.

Given how different things are now so must our attitudes change. I always allow my children to leave a small portion of food on their plate if they choose to do so.. I know mum hates it, but I think it’s important they know they can say ‘no’ to what’s in front of them.

i’ve always eaten everything on my plate, as the amount on my plate has always been dependant on the amount of insulin i had already given (a bit less strict now i have the insulim pump)

my mum invites you over for a meal… :)

Maybe when i’m off this diet :)

Not for long, I am off to bed. I am shattered and tomorrow is a school day (darn it).

See youse all

jennajones said:

Not for long, I am off to bed. I am shattered and tomorrow is a school day (darn it).

See youse all

Cya :)

Rule 303 said:

Arts said:

so, it’s not the pyramid that needs some work but the attitudes of people who don’t eat ‘rationally’ (haha)

Seems like too much to ask.

Arts said:

It has been my experience that most people know what they are eating is not doing them any health favours, but they choose to indulge anyway for whatever comfort it gives them.

Sure. I know people who have a food for each mood. Like anniversaries and Diamonds, they tend to converge toward the fats and alcohols.

I am not suggesting it would be easy to de-couple eating and emotional state for these people, more that they have very little hope of making better choices if they don’t understand the basics. There’s no hope if they are not confronted by the reality of what they’re putting in their mouths.

I am struggling with these notions – I recently found myself asking a heavily obese woman if she had decided upon a goal weight, because on her current trajectory, she could be at 250kg within 10 years. Possibly not the best strategy…

we need those healthy eating ads back on TV…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJQdAHlQh18

that was back when mums did know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlL9G0ugKmM

nice to see you again jenna

Arts said:

that was back when mums did know.

Heh.

hmmmm… that’s very pretty…
—-

Thanks but I can’t take all the credit.

Rule 303 said:

The reason I’m curious is my experience with people’s perception of energy density. It is extremely common to vastly under-estimate the density of some sources.

There’s some public education authorities who have already abandoned the Pyramid in favour of a Pie Chart or divided ‘Plate’.

I use the divided plate thing for diabetics atm, I also tend to give it out to those wanting to lose weight as well as it’s got some good stuff on it.

poikilotherm said:

Rule 303 said:

The reason I’m curious is my experience with people’s perception of energy density. It is extremely common to vastly under-estimate the density of some sources.

There’s some public education authorities who have already abandoned the Pyramid in favour of a Pie Chart or divided ‘Plate’.

I use the divided plate thing for diabetics atm, I also tend to give it out to those wanting to lose weight as well as it’s got some good stuff on it.

*the nicely printed drug company propaganda one, that is…