Date: 4/07/2013 19:49:31
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 341620
Subject: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

The uranium-235 and uranium-238 we use in modern nuclear fission reactors are humanity’s single most energy-dense fuel source (1,546,000,000 MJ/L), but that potent power potential comes at a steep price — and not just during natural disasters. Its radioactive plutonium byproducts remain lethally irradiated for millennia. That’s why one pioneering Nordic company is developing an alternative fuel that doesn’t produce it.

When uranium is used in a conventional Light Water Reactor, it’s converted into plutonium (and if the U238 isotope is used, the result can be fissable Pu239). Even without the danger of weapons-grade plutonium proliferating from a country’s stores of radioactive waste, there’s not really an easy way to dispose of the byproduct. Our best answer so far has been burying it and hoping for the best. Instead, Thor Energy — a subsidiary of the Oslo-based Scatec group — wants to burn up that store of plutonium to power the very reactors that created it. All its system needs is the addition of thorium. A lot of it.

Luckily, thorium (Th232) is an abundant — albeit slightly radioactive — element. It’s estimated to be four times as common as uranium and 500 times as much as U238. It’s so common that it’s currently treated like a byproduct in the rare-earth mining industry. Problem is, naturally occurring thorium doesn’t contain enough of its fissable isotope (Th231) to maintain criticality. But that’s where the plutonium comes in. What Thor energy did was mix ceramic thorium oxide (ThO2) with plutonium oxide (nuclear waste) in a 90:10 ratio to create thorium-MOX (mixed-oxide). The thorium oxide acts as a matrix that holds the plutonium in place as its used up.

This stuff could very well revolutionise nuclear power. Thorium-MOX can be formed into rods and used in current generation (Gen II) nuclear reactor with minimal retrofitting. Ceramic thorium has a higher thermal conductivity and melting point than uranium, meaning it can operate at a lower (and safer) internal pellet temperature with less chance of a meltdown, fewer fission gas emissions, and extended fuel cycles.

Most importantly, thorium doesn’t convert into plutonium — precisely the opposite, in fact. That is, the process consumes plutonium. We could be looking at a means of not only halting the growth American nuclear waste sites but actually reducing our stores of plutonium while simultaneously reducing the danger of nuclear proliferation. Sure, the thorium system does create waste of i’s own, but irradiated thorium doesn’t oxidize and remains more stable as it decays. What more could you want?

Thor Energy is currently testing the new technology on the small scale. A prototype reactor will power a paper mill in the town of Halden, Norway for the next five years. If the fuel proves to be commercially viable during that test, we could see a sea change in nuclear power by the end of the decade.

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2013/07/monster-machines-this-thorium-reactor-has-the-power-of-a-norse-god/

Still not happy that Australia isn’t smrt enough to be building thorium reactors as well.

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Date: 4/07/2013 20:08:07
From: wookiemeister
ID: 341630
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

can you extract thorium from some common/ cheap , product/ material?

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Date: 4/07/2013 20:10:50
From: Spiny Norman
ID: 341633
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

wookiemeister said:


can you extract thorium from some common/ cheap , product/ material?

Rocks.

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Date: 4/07/2013 20:11:41
From: sibeen
ID: 341634
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

>Still not happy that Australia isn’t smrt enough to be building thorium reactors as well.

Admittedly we are a tad shy of plutonium.

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Date: 4/07/2013 20:12:15
From: wookiemeister
ID: 341635
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

Spiny Norman said:


wookiemeister said:

can you extract thorium from some common/ cheap , product/ material?

Rocks.


whats the concentration in the rock, not something like 2ppm I hope.

pour some acid over the rock dust?

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Date: 4/07/2013 20:12:21
From: Dropbear
ID: 341636
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

plenty of fast breeders in australia

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Date: 4/07/2013 20:13:05
From: wookiemeister
ID: 341637
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

sibeen said:


>Still not happy that Australia isn’t smrt enough to be building thorium reactors as well.

Admittedly we are a tad shy of plutonium.


plutonium can be made

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Date: 4/07/2013 20:19:14
From: party_pants
ID: 341639
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

Interesting.

Where would we get our plutonium from? Can we import it as nuclear waste from other countries happy to be rid of it? Might be an alternative to the plan to build the world’s nuclear waste dump somewhere in the middle of the Australian desert.

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Date: 4/07/2013 20:19:23
From: sibeen
ID: 341640
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

Dropbear said:


plenty of fast breeders in australia

Get it built in The Shire.

Brooke can do the planning permissions.

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Date: 4/07/2013 20:37:07
From: Michael V
ID: 341646
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

wookiemeister said:


can you extract thorium from some common/ cheap , product/ material?
.
Monazite.

A cerium thorium LREE garbage-bag phosphate. A constituent of heavy mineral sands, and minor constiuent of granites and some other igneous rocks.

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Date: 4/07/2013 20:48:32
From: morrie
ID: 341647
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

wookiemeister said:


can you extract thorium from some common/ cheap , product/ material?

Gas mantles. Well, old ones at least. They used to be soaked in thorium nitrate. I think that they may have switched to something else though, due to massive buy ups by DIY backyard nuclear power enthusiasts.

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Date: 4/07/2013 21:03:40
From: wookiemeister
ID: 341648
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

morrie said:


wookiemeister said:

can you extract thorium from some common/ cheap , product/ material?

Gas mantles. Well, old ones at least. They used to be soaked in thorium nitrate. I think that they may have switched to something else though, due to massive buy ups by DIY backyard nuclear power enthusiasts.


its always the same way, someone gets a good idea and then they go and ban it or make it difficult for people to get hold of

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Date: 4/07/2013 21:05:10
From: wookiemeister
ID: 341649
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

Michael V said:


wookiemeister said:

can you extract thorium from some common/ cheap , product/ material?
.
Monazite.

A cerium thorium LREE garbage-bag phosphate. A constituent of heavy mineral sands, and minor constiuent of granites and some other igneous rocks.


lree?

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Date: 4/07/2013 21:41:53
From: Michael V
ID: 341652
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

LREE = Light Rare Earth Elements.

Sorry.

I hate people using undefined initialisations, and here I am doing it myself. Mea Culpa.

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Date: 4/07/2013 21:47:15
From: dv
ID: 341654
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

Approve

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Date: 4/07/2013 22:15:09
From: CrazyNeutrino
ID: 341681
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

marks 5 years on calendar to check how its going

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Date: 4/07/2013 22:17:19
From: Dropbear
ID: 341683
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

CrazyNeutrino said:

marks 5 years on calendar to check how its going

Give it 50 years, like commercial fusion

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Date: 4/07/2013 22:29:06
From: diddly-squat
ID: 341688
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

there is little doubt that there is a place for this type of technology in the mix of power generation sources for our future.

kudos

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Date: 6/07/2013 07:48:41
From: bourke
ID: 342580
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

Thorium is as common as lead… a little less toxic!

In 1974, we had the ability to avoid Fukushima, 3 mile island, and nuclear waste… one marble of Thorium can power everything in you entire life:

http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/china-is-taking-the-lead-on-thorium-reactor-development

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Date: 6/07/2013 08:38:41
From: Ian
ID: 342586
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

diddly-squat said:

there is little doubt that there is a place for this type of technology in the mix of power generation sources for our future.

kudos

+1

Unfortunately nuclear is on the nose politically at the moment… esp since Fuckishima

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Date: 6/07/2013 15:27:54
From: bourke
ID: 342709
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

Ian said:


Unfortunately nuclear is on the nose politically at the moment… esp since Fuckishima

… but Thorium would have completely avoided Fukushima! (I hope you don’t pronounce it the way you wrote it!)

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Date: 6/07/2013 15:54:06
From: morrie
ID: 342715
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

bourke said:


Ian said:

Unfortunately nuclear is on the nose politically at the moment… esp since Fuckishima

… but Thorium would have completely avoided Fukushima! (I hope you don’t pronounce it the way you wrote it!)


The Chinese have started on their pebble bed reactor that is supposed to avoid that sort of problem too.

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Date: 6/07/2013 16:12:53
From: wookiemeister
ID: 342727
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

you could power your house forever then

no more power companies needed

the unions would be boned

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Date: 6/07/2013 16:19:35
From: bourke
ID: 342729
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

morrie said:


bourke said:

Ian said:

Unfortunately nuclear is on the nose politically at the moment… esp since Fuckishima

… but Thorium would have completely avoided Fukushima! (I hope you don’t pronounce it the way you wrote it!)


The Chinese have started on their pebble bed reactor that is supposed to avoid that sort of problem too.

The recent Chinese money – $350 million from the president himself (his gov to be precise) – is actually in Thorium – pebble bed isn’t as safe as Thorium – there was an accident (jammed pebble feeder resulting in cracked pebble) in Germany (the home of the pebble bed design) in 1986 resulting in the German Greens having a field day.

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Date: 6/07/2013 16:21:43
From: bourke
ID: 342730
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

bourke said:


morrie said:

bourke said:

… but Thorium would have completely avoided Fukushima! (I hope you don’t pronounce it the way you wrote it!)


The Chinese have started on their pebble bed reactor that is supposed to avoid that sort of problem too.

The recent Chinese money – $350 million from the president himself (his gov to be precise) – is actually in Thorium – pebble bed isn’t as safe as Thorium – there was an accident (jammed pebble feeder resulting in cracked pebble) in Germany (the home of the pebble bed design) in 1986 resulting in the German Greens having a field day.

… and no more German reactors ever since :(

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Date: 6/07/2013 19:20:53
From: Witty Rejoinder
ID: 342809
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

Wishing on a star: the frustration of fusion
Date July 6, 2013

Nick Miller
Europe Correspondent

It turns out that thermonuclear fusion, the elusive energy source that could solve many of the world’s problems, is a pinky-purple colour.

We’re in the control room of JET, the 30-year-old Joint European Torus tucked behind the thatched houses and winding country lanes of Oxfordshire, which holds the world record for coming the closest to proving fusion’s commercial viability.

A bunch of engineers and physicists tap at their computers and gaze up at a dark video screen.

There is a countdown, then a pause. A ghostly, rosy halo flickers into existence on the monitor, illuminating the inside of a hollow, airless metal ‘‘doughnut’‘.

The doughnut would fit into half a basketball court, though you can’t tell from here, on the other side of three-metre concrete walls and a verging-on-paranoid security cordon.

The glow fills the tunnel, hugging the walls, and its base thickens into a bright stream that seems to pour along the bottom of the device in a river of light.

Inside that halo, trapped by an intense magnetic field that saps 1 per cent of Britain’s national electricity grid to switch on, is a swirling plasma that is, at this moment, the hottest place in the solar system. Then, seconds later, with a last flourish, the glow sputters and vanishes. The plasma has escaped its bonds. Show over.

And that’s it, until the next try an hour later, and over and over again, as scientists chase the dream of igniting a tiny star that could power human civilisation for a million years.

Read more:

http://www.theage.com.au/national/wishing-on-a-star-the-frustration-of-fusion-20130705-2phov.html#ixzz2YFtr2Y9h

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Date: 6/07/2013 20:01:41
From: morrie
ID: 342819
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

bourke said:


morrie said:

bourke said:

… but Thorium would have completely avoided Fukushima! (I hope you don’t pronounce it the way you wrote it!)


The Chinese have started on their pebble bed reactor that is supposed to avoid that sort of problem too.

The recent Chinese money – $350 million from the president himself (his gov to be precise) – is actually in Thorium – pebble bed isn’t as safe as Thorium – there was an accident (jammed pebble feeder resulting in cracked pebble) in Germany (the home of the pebble bed design) in 1986 resulting in the German Greens having a field day.


http://www.nucnet.org/all-the-news/2013/01/07/china-begins-construction-of-first-generation-iv-htr-pm-unit
Thats pretty recent, I think.

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Date: 6/07/2013 20:29:10
From: Stealth
ID: 342829
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

Fukushima! (I hope you don’t pronounce it the way you wrote it!)
———————-
My wife and kids are heading down to Whakapapa on Monday. And that is not pronounced how it is wrote. ‘wh’ is pronounced ‘f’

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Date: 6/07/2013 20:31:12
From: Geoff D
ID: 342831
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

Stealth said:


Fukushima! (I hope you don’t pronounce it the way you wrote it!)
———————-
My wife and kids are heading down to Whakapapa on Monday. And that is not pronounced how it is wrote. ‘wh’ is pronounced ‘f’

Niuean hello is faka’alofa – try saying that with a straight face.

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Date: 6/07/2013 20:59:32
From: PM 2Ring
ID: 342835
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

Stealth said:


Fukushima! (I hope you don’t pronounce it the way you wrote it!)
———————-
My wife and kids are heading down to Whakapapa on Monday. And that is not pronounced how it is wrote. ‘wh’ is pronounced ‘f’

Sort of.

Wikipedia says


The pronunciation of /wh/ is extremely variable, but its most common pronunciation (its canonical allophone) is the labiodental fricative, IPA f found in English. Another allophone is the bilabial fricative, IPA ɸ, which is usually supposed to be the sole pre-European pronunciation, although in fact linguists are not sure of the truth of this supposition.

labiodental = upper lip on lower teeth
bilabial = upper lip on lower lip

I’ve also heard /wh/ pronounced as a slightly breathy v sound.

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Date: 6/07/2013 22:41:03
From: roughbarked
ID: 342838
Subject: re: Prototype thorium reactor in Norway

PM 2Ring said:


Stealth said:

Fukushima! (I hope you don’t pronounce it the way you wrote it!)
———————-
My wife and kids are heading down to Whakapapa on Monday. And that is not pronounced how it is wrote. ‘wh’ is pronounced ‘f’

Sort of.

Wikipedia says


The pronunciation of /wh/ is extremely variable, but its most common pronunciation (its canonical allophone) is the labiodental fricative, IPA f found in English. Another allophone is the bilabial fricative, IPA ɸ, which is usually supposed to be the sole pre-European pronunciation, although in fact linguists are not sure of the truth of this supposition.

labiodental = upper lip on lower teeth
bilabial = upper lip on lower lip

I’ve also heard /wh/ pronounced as a slightly breathy v sound.

my favourite is Eucalyptus foecunda

not that I mind Cymbidium canaliculatum
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