Many years ago I found this rock on the shores of the Shoalhaven River. I was a kid. When I put it in the car it broke in two and revealed some amazing things. A friend ID some of it for me, he’s a marine geologist.

One side:

The other side:

kii said:

Many years ago I found this rock on the shores of the Shoalhaven River. I was a kid. When I put it in the car it broke in two and revealed some amazing things. A friend ID some of it for me, he’s a marine geologist.

One side:

The other side:

Would they be brachiopods?

Yes, I found the note….it went through the wash about 20 years ago. The note, not the fossil.

Permian age, marine, likely lower Permian. Mostly brachiopods, at least one spirifirid brachiopod. Some disarticulated crinoid ossicles. Much macerated fossil shell-grit. From marine shell-bank.

Michael V said:

Permian age, marine, likely lower Permian. Mostly brachiopods, at least one spirifirid brachiopod. Some disarticulated crinoid ossicles. Much macerated fossil shell-grit. From marine shell-bank.

I have a certain loathing of brachiopods after having photographed so many of them. Usually they had to be sprayed with ammonium chloride to bring out their texture.

Michael V said:

Permian age, marine, likely lower Permian. Mostly brachiopods, at least one spirifirid brachiopod. Some disarticulated crinoid ossicles. Much macerated fossil shell-grit. From marine shell-bank.

Is there much variation around the World in fossils of any given age?

The Rev Dodgson said:

Michael V said:

Permian age, marine, likely lower Permian. Mostly brachiopods, at least one spirifirid brachiopod. Some disarticulated crinoid ossicles. Much macerated fossil shell-grit. From marine shell-bank.

Is there much variation around the World in fossils of any given age?

.

Yes there is, much like today.

Different continents, different latitudes = different faunas and floras.

But same continent, different latitudes = overlapping floral and faunal differences.

(Also note that different ecologic niches at the same latitude and same continent gives differences, too.)

I’ve lots of bits of fosilised and opalised stuff similar.

I be very, very surprised to see a broken trilobite pygidium (tail end) in that rock (and I didn’t, but then, I don’t have the rock in my hand and a hand lens).

Trilobites are rare and quite small in the Permian. They are particularly rare in Australian Permian-age rocks.

Michael V said:

I be very, very surprised to see a broken trilobite pygidium (tail end) in that rock (and I didn’t, but then, I don’t have the rock in my hand and a hand lens).

Trilobites are rare and quite small in the Permian. They are particularly rare in Australian Permian-age rocks.

According to Chris’ notes there are trilobites…broken tails and all. I have the photos ready to post, in a minute or 4.

Michael V said:

I be very, very surprised to see a broken trilobite pygidium (tail end) in that rock (and I didn’t, but then, I don’t have the rock in my hand and a hand lens).

Trilobites are rare and quite small in the Permian. They are particularly rare in Australian Permian-age rocks.

I don’t have a trilobite.

To the upper right of the spot of paint…I think:

This one? Just above the middle of the left side.

Aye, that’s a trilobite. Very common in Cambrian fossils from the Mole Creek karst valley.

I was wrong, and at the top of my voice as usual. (To be fair to me, it wasn’t on the first set of photos, and I thought that was all the photos there was.)

There is a trilobite pygidiium there! Nice stuff. (And it is not missing anything – one lobe just hasn’t been exposed – it is hidden under a sliver of rock.)

kii said:

This one? Just above the middle of the left side.

.

Yes that’s a pygidium. Probably the one Chris sketched.

I clearly remember the day that I found this rock. The river level seemd low and there were lots of rocks exposed. lots of rocks. We had packed up after fishing and I spotted the squiggly bits on the outside of this rock, so I picked it up. It’s about the size of a cereal bowl. Dad wanted to get going and I wanted to explore as I noticed that ALL the rocks on that part of the river bank were squiggly. It seems to me that they were all fossily-type rocks.

kii said:

To the upper right of the spot of paint…I think:

Michael V said:

I was wrong, and at the top of my voice as usual. (To be fair to me, it wasn’t on the first set of photos, and I thought that was all the photos there was.)

There is a trilobite pygidiium there! Nice stuff. (And it is not missing anything – one lobe just hasn’t been exposed – it is hidden under a sliver of rock.)

I was referring to this photo. Nice work Professor Jenkins. :)

Michael V said:

I was referring to this photo. Nice work Professor Jenkins. :)

He’s up in Colorado I think….according to the intertubes. A very nice man – we served on management committees together and I cared for his two sons.

kii said:

I clearly remember the day that I found this rock. The river level seemd low and there were lots of rocks exposed. lots of rocks. We had packed up after fishing and I spotted the squiggly bits on the outside of this rock, so I picked it up. It’s about the size of a cereal bowl. Dad wanted to get going and I wanted to explore as I noticed that ALL the rocks on that part of the river bank were squiggly. It seems to me that they were all fossily-type rocks.

Sounds like a good spot to re-visit.

kii said:

I clearly remember the day that I found this rock. The river level seemd low and there were lots of rocks exposed. lots of rocks. We had packed up after fishing and I spotted the squiggly bits on the outside of this rock, so I picked it up. It’s about the size of a cereal bowl. Dad wanted to get going and I wanted to explore as I noticed that ALL the rocks on that part of the river bank were squiggly. It seems to me that they were all fossily-type rocks.

so, are you going to be a squillionaire?

How does one get to be a squillionaire with fossils?

Arts said:

kii said:

I clearly remember the day that I found this rock. The river level seemd low and there were lots of rocks exposed. lots of rocks. We had packed up after fishing and I spotted the squiggly bits on the outside of this rock, so I picked it up. It’s about the size of a cereal bowl. Dad wanted to get going and I wanted to explore as I noticed that ALL the rocks on that part of the river bank were squiggly. It seems to me that they were all fossily-type rocks.

so, are you going to be a squillionaire?

Fossils aren’t big money. Not unless you sell to traders without scruples.

Michael V said:

How does one get to be a squillionaire with fossils?

See my post.. There are people who will do anything to add to their secret collections. Otherwise, museums don’t have the money.

Nah, I’m happy with my lump of rock. Dusty little thing it is. Must be nearly 50 years since I found it. It’s getting old ;)

kii said:

Nah, I’m happy with my lump of rock. Dusty little thing it is. Must be nearly 50 years since I found it. It’s getting old ;)

it was always old.

Michael V said:

How does one get to be a squillionaire with fossils?

you tell us :)

I donated a particularly crisp trilobite to the Launceston Museum decades ago. They were very happy to have it but I don’t know if it’s ever been on display, or even identified.

roughbarked said:

kii said:

Nah, I’m happy with my lump of rock. Dusty little thing it is. Must be nearly 50 years since I found it. It’s getting old ;)

it was always old.

Oh…yes *smacks head *

I suppose if you found something rare enough you could get sponsorship money. Coke and McDonalds and Trump can bid for fossil naming, marketing and promotional rights (for a period of ten years) and so on…

Arts said:

Michael V said:

How does one get to be a squillionaire with fossils?

you tell us :)

.
OK.

Give up fossils and then sell the idea of making money from minerals (via a plausible project) to a stock market full of greedy people.

Arts said:

I suppose if you found something rare enough you could get sponsorship money. Coke and McDonalds and Trump can bid for fossil naming, marketing and promotional rights (for a period of ten years) and so on…

One of my acquaintances sold his brewing label to Coca Cola for $55 m. He still brews and bottles and sells the stuff to coke but.. he also has that cool $55 mill.

Michael V said:

Arts said:

Michael V said:

How does one get to be a squillionaire with fossils?

you tell us :)

.
OK.

Give up fossils and then sell the idea of making money from minerals (via a plausible project) to a stock market full of greedy people.

who are fickle.

Okay, I think I’m done with the fossil stuff. Over to Arts.

fiVe, I’m beginning to get the impression that there’s not much money in fossils…

Arts said:

fiVe, I’m beginning to get the impression that there’s not much money in fossils…

.
I didn’t want to break it to you. You just needed to find out for yourself. :(

(sob)

Arts said:

fiVe, I’m beginning to get the impression that there’s not much money in fossils…

Ooo…I don’t know…fossil hand puppets might be a big thing. I mean, look at dinosaur hand puppets.

Arts, we’ll split the profits if you think that’s a goer.

Michael V said:

Arts said:

fiVe, I’m beginning to get the impression that there’s not much money in fossils…

.
I didn’t want to break it to you. You just needed to find out for yourself. :(

(sob)

oh well, there goes the sciences… ;)

Mind, I have made chocolate trilobites (from a mould I made). I reckon they’d be saleable.

The mould has since disappeared. I think maybe one of the boys swapped it for drugs.

Michael V said:

Mind, I have made chocolate trilobites (from a mould I made). I reckon they’d be saleable.

The mould has since disappeared. I think maybe one of the boys swapped it for drugs.

small things disappear unless you keep a close watch on them.

Bubblecar said:

I donated a particularly crisp trilobite to the Launceston Museum decades ago. They were very happy to have it but I don’t know if it’s ever been on display, or even identified.

Museums only display a small proportion of their collection at any one time (and this is most obvious when you actually go behind the scenes and look at stored accessions). They are primarily a repository of scientific samples for research and loan, and even without identification to highest taxonomic ranks, collections are still accessioned and eventually curated by an expert in the group. If they have accessions on electronic database, you can search by collector and collection number and see the fate of that specimen.

http://www.qvmag.tas.gov.au/qvmag/index.php?c=112#TasmanianFossils

I’ve got fossil ferns in the slate hearth under my wood stove…

600 million years old…

Willing to sell for $10 squillion. (negotiable)

Michael V said:

How does one get to be a squillionaire with fossils?

fossil fuel baron?

neomyrtus_ said:

Bubblecar said:

I donated a particularly crisp trilobite to the Launceston Museum decades ago. They were very happy to have it but I don’t know if it’s ever been on display, or even identified.

Museums only display a small proportion of their collection at any one time (and this is most obvious when you actually go behind the scenes and look at stored accessions). They are primarily a repository of scientific samples for research and loan, and even without identification to highest taxonomic ranks, collections are still accessioned and eventually curated by an expert in the group. If they have accessions on electronic database, you can search by collector and collection number and see the fate of that specimen.

http://www.qvmag.tas.gov.au/qvmag/index.php?c=112#TasmanianFossils

I would hate to work in a museum, or more correctly, a museum would hate to employ me. Not sure I could resist the temptation to pocket some museum validated artefact of thousands or millions of years old. I used to buy fossils and antiquities off the net but have given up on that with massive chinese fraud meaning as a lay person you can never be sure what you have purchased is kosher.

Ian said:

I’ve got fossil ferns in the slate hearth under my wood stove…

600 million years old…

Willing to sell for $10 squillion. (negotiable)

.

I am willing to bet $10 squillion that you don’t have 600 million year old fern fossils in the slate hearth under your wood stove.

>http://www.qvmag.tas.gov.au/qvmag/index.php?c=112#TasmanianFossils

It’s not in that website. She took me downstairs to where they file them away, and showed me some of the spectacular Russian trilobites they had in drawers down there. She tried to identify it but wasn’t successful, so it may have been a new species.

I haven’t visited the museum since it’s moved to the new location.

Ian said:

.

OK. Good photo. Now, where are they from? How do you know they are 600 million years old (600 Ma)?

Could be dinosaur feathers.

Bubblecar said:

Could be dinosaur feathers.

Apparently they were all faked :)

(TIC)

Even if they were dinosaur feathers (which they are not), they’d be much younger than 600Ma.

Michael V said:

Ian said:

.

OK. Good photo. Now, where are they from? How do you know they are 600 million years old (600 Ma)?

Mine look nothing like that…

they are much more colourful.

Seed ferns (pteridosperms) started some time in the Late Devonian (~385 Ma – 360 Ma) and are the earliest plants with fern-like fossils.

>> How do you know they are 600 million years old (600 Ma)?
.

It said so on teh interwebs.

How old are the slates used in Oz?

Ian said:

Michael V said:

Ian said:

ref: http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4011/4280234305_1c8eb6f871_b.jpg

.

OK. Good photo. Now, where are they from? How do you know they are 600 million years old (600 Ma)?

Mine look nothing like that…

they are much more colourful.

.

Can you show a photo of them please? Can you also describe where they are from? Can you describe how you know they are 600 Ma?

Michael V said:

Even if they were dinosaur feathers (which they are not), they’d be much younger than 600Ma.

6000 years old. All of ‘em. pteridioiphytes, Rhynia, bryophytes, clubmosses – the lot.

Ian said:

>> How do you know they are 600 million years old (600 Ma)?
.

It said so on teh interwebs.

How old are the slates used in Oz?

.

Slates used in Australia are mostly imported. Many from China. Ages? I don’t know.

Are they even fossils?

neomyrtus_ said:

Michael V said:

Even if they were dinosaur feathers (which they are not), they’d be much younger than 600Ma.

6000 years old. All of ‘em. pteridioiphytes, Rhynia, bryophytes, clubmosses – the lot.

.

Dem’s fightin words, neo. You’ve stepped over the line! Put ur Dukes up!

neomyrtus_ said:

Michael V said:

Even if they were dinosaur feathers (which they are not), they’d be much younger than 600Ma.

6000 years old. All of ‘em. pteridioiphytes, Rhynia, bryophytes, clubmosses – the lot.

+1

Alex (Everything)

some plant groups didn’t make it past the Great Flood, but there was a time when the entire Earth was covered in rice paddies. Noah was amaized.

anyway, Ian.

C’mon. Work with us. Put your mind back 600 million years ago. Were there ferns or fern-like things in an Ediacaran ecosystem?

Carboniferous, that was the age of giant ferns.

>>Work with us. Put your mind back 600 million years ago.

You joking? Last week is stretch.

OCDC said:

neomyrtus_ said:

Michael V said:

Even if they were dinosaur feathers (which they are not), they’d be much younger than 600Ma.

6000 years old. All of ‘em. pteridioiphytes, Rhynia, bryophytes, clubmosses – the lot.

+1

Alex (Everything)

.

You can put your Dukes up too!

neomyrtus_ said:

some plant groups didn’t make it past the Great Flood, but there was a time when the entire Earth was covered in rice paddies. Noah was amaized.

.

Goodonya Bishop Utter!

Ian, does your hearth-rock look somewhat like this? (ie, black or dark brown on yellow-ish rock?)

http://dept.sfcollege.edu/NatSci/PhysSci/jean.klein/fossils/pseufoss.jpg

Ian, could you upload a photo, please?

Michael V said:

Ian, does your hearth-rock look somewhat like this? (ie, black or dark brown on yellow-ish rock?)

http://dept.sfcollege.edu/NatSci/PhysSci/jean.klein/fossils/pseufoss.jpg

Yes, but it’s only a small specimen.

How about $5 squil?

Ian said:

Michael V said:

Ian, does your hearth-rock look somewhat like this? (ie, black or dark brown on yellow-ish rock?)

http://dept.sfcollege.edu/NatSci/PhysSci/jean.klein/fossils/pseufoss.jpg

Yes, but it’s only a small specimen.

How about $5 squil?

.

What about my bet?

>Pseudofossils are inorganic objects, markings, or impressions that might be mistaken for fossils.

Alright, one $1 squil… can’t say fairer

Ian said:

>Pseudofossils are inorganic objects, markings, or impressions that might be mistaken for fossils.

Alright, one $1 squil… can’t say fairer

buy! buy!! BUY!!!

Arts said:

Ian said:

>Pseudofossils are inorganic objects, markings, or impressions that might be mistaken for fossils.

Alright, one $1 squil… can’t say fairer

buy! buy!! BUY!!!

SOLD!

Ian said:

Arts said:

Ian said:

>Pseudofossils are inorganic objects, markings, or impressions that might be mistaken for fossils.

Alright, one $1 squil… can’t say fairer

buy! buy!! BUY!!!

SOLD!

all offers are void after 3 minutes and ten seconds.

It turns out that selling fossils could make one quite wealthy, after all:

http://www.trilobites.com/site/index.cfm?action=dsp_prod&level=2&catid1=1

Oh well.. thanks for that Michael.

(mutters… down several $ squillion.. mutter.. mutter…)

Ian said:

Oh well.. thanks for that Michael.

(mutters… down several $ squillion.. mutter.. mutter…)

.

I’d still like to see an image of the specimen, Ian.

My idea was stolen! I made Mrs V some earrings from the same species of trilobite about 18 years ago.

http://www.trilobites.com/site/index.cfm?action=item&prod_id=6028&

Framed fossil stingray from the Eocene-age Green River Formation, Wyoming. Stingray is 19 inches long, plate is 15.2” X 24.5”.

$4295.

(http://www.sculptedstone.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=pr.sh_item&prod_id=3417)

Michael V said:

Framed fossil stingray from the Eocene-age Green River Formation, Wyoming. Stingray is 19 inches long, plate is 15.2” X 24.5”.

$4295.

(http://www.sculptedstone.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=pr.sh_item&prod_id=3417)

Want.

Michael V said:

Framed fossil stingray from the Eocene-age Green River Formation, Wyoming. Stingray is 19 inches long, plate is 15.2” X 24.5”.

$4295.

(http://www.sculptedstone.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=pr.sh_item&prod_id=3417)

I’ll take two

Michael V said:

Framed fossil stingray from the Eocene-age Green River Formation, Wyoming. Stingray is 19 inches long, plate is 15.2” X 24.5”.

$4295.

(http://www.sculptedstone.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=pr.sh_item&prod_id=3417)

I’d buy it… if only the decimal point was inserted correctly in the price

pommiejohn said:

Michael V said:

Framed fossil stingray from the Eocene-age Green River Formation, Wyoming. Stingray is 19 inches long, plate is 15.2” X 24.5”.

$4295.

I’d buy it… if only the decimal point was inserted correctly in the price

four and a half grand is pretty good for one of a kind artwork..

Arts said:

pommiejohn said:

Michael V said:

Framed fossil stingray from the Eocene-age Green River Formation, Wyoming. Stingray is 19 inches long, plate is 15.2” X 24.5”.

$4295.

I’d buy it… if only the decimal point was inserted correctly in the price

four and a half grand is pretty good for one of a kind artwork..

.

I agree.

Michael V said:

Arts said:

pommiejohn said:

I’d buy it… if only the decimal point was inserted correctly in the price

four and a half grand is pretty good for one of a kind artwork..

.

I agree.

though, you are correct fiVe, it’s not squillions