Former Liberal MP Ross Cameron says he wants to knock the Sydney Harbour Bridge down and build a new one, in order to improve the city’s traffic.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-13/a-new-sydney-harbour-bridge/4818416

wookiemeister said:

Former Liberal MP Ross Cameron says he wants to knock the Sydney Harbour Bridge down and build a new one, in order to improve the city’s traffic.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-13/a-new-sydney-harbour-bridge/4818416

His bridge replacement plan looks good though. I see nothing unrealistic about what he has said.

wookiemeister said:

Former Liberal MP Ross Cameron says he wants to knock the Sydney Harbour Bridge down and build a new one, in order to improve the city’s traffic.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-13/a-new-sydney-harbour-bridge/4818416

Not only that, but he argues that the maintenance costs are huge and likely to rise. Those rivets don’t last forever. He presents a compelling argument.

Divine Angel said:

wookiemeister said:

Former Liberal MP Ross Cameron says he wants to knock the Sydney Harbour Bridge down and build a new one, in order to improve the city’s traffic.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-13/a-new-sydney-harbour-bridge/4818416

Not only that, but he argues that the maintenance costs are huge and likely to rise. Those rivets don’t last forever. He presents a compelling argument.

time to knock the QVB and opera house methinks

if you replaced the QVB you’d make much more efficient use of the space right in the heart of the city

Send him to Cairo to convince the Egyptians to improve their tourism by knocking down those cruddy old light-blocking pyramids.

Bubblecar said:

Send him to Cairo to convince the Egyptians to improve their tourism by knocking down those cruddy old light-blocking pyramids.

They weren’t held together by rivets.

I don’t like the word rivet.

it’s not a silly idea… it seems rational, well thought out and a good way to solve the issue… of course they could perhaps leave the bridge alone and build an underwater train/bus tunnel?

Lord_Lucan said:

I don’t like the word rivet.

lol sandra still haunts

roughbarked said:

Bubblecar said:

Send him to Cairo to convince the Egyptians to improve their tourism by knocking down those cruddy old light-blocking pyramids.

They weren’t held together by rivets.

If someone shows me a watch or clock with riveted plates, I write NBG on the ticket and the salesgirl knows to tell the customer that “this timepiece wasn’t made to be repaired” and if the customer really pushes, then “the watchmaker will attempt to fix it with all care but no responsibility”.

Arts said:

Lord_Lucan said:

I don’t like the word rivet.

lol sandra still haunts

whois sandra rivet?

Bubblecar said:

Send him to Cairo to convince the Egyptians to improve their tourism by knocking down those cruddy old light-blocking pyramids.

oh tell me about it, you could pack about a million slums that make real money instead of those tourist magnets

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

Lord_Lucan said:

I don’t like the word rivet.

lol sandra still haunts

whois sandra rivet?

rivett ask the Lord…

Arts said:

roughbarked said:

Arts said:

lol sandra still haunts

whois sandra rivet?

rivett ask the Lord…

ah.. so no answers there then..

you could always replace the rivets with something else I guess, one by one.

machine screws?

wookiemeister said:

you could always replace the rivets with something else I guess, one by one.

machine screws?

anything is possible as long as the scaffolding is available.

The two most iconic Australian structures (in fact the only Australian structures widely known outside of Oz): the Sydney Harbour Bridge and the Sydney Opera House. The thinking seems to be: “Well we have two – count them, TWO – iconic structures that are well-known and much-loved, so we can afford to knock one of them down!”

He wants to replace it, looking as it does but with the undercarriage for trains and buses the skyline wouldn’t change much .. though what they would do with the original one would be interesting.. maybe cart it up to the gold coast…

I suppose it would be like replacing the Eiffel Tower…

I like they way he adds the ‘awesome engineering ratings’ slant though… he’s a politician :)

you could bulldoze the whole of Sydney starting in the docks area

none of those buildings or road networks are efficient

instead of roads you could start building a structure that incorporates the road network – though the vehicles would need to be electric

that’s the problem with Sydney its not efficient, you have the energy of thousands of bodies completely being wasted and huge areas where the dead are buried taking up valuable real estate.

you need to harvest that energy of those bodies and the burial site and somehow fuse the two somehow

Ross Cameron has an interesting track record. A bloke who runs Christian prayer meetings while having extra-marital affairs.

morrie said:

Ross Cameron has an interesting track record. A bloke who runs Christian prayer meetings while having extra-marital affairs.

a would be-priest?

morrie said:

Ross Cameron has an interesting track record. A bloke who runs Christian prayer meetings while having extra-marital affairs.

we should pray for him

wookiemeister said:

morrie said:

Ross Cameron has an interesting track record. A bloke who runs Christian prayer meetings while having extra-marital affairs.

we should pray for him

:) the royal we?

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

morrie said:

Ross Cameron has an interesting track record. A bloke who runs Christian prayer meetings while having extra-marital affairs.

we should pray for him

:) the royal we?

.

The royal wee, methinks.

Michael V said:

roughbarked said:

wookiemeister said:

we should pray for him

:) the royal we?

.

The royal wee, methinks.

I thought that too but deleted the e as a typo.. ;)

roughbarked said:

morrie said:

Ross Cameron has an interesting track record. A bloke who runs Christian prayer meetings while having extra-marital affairs.

a would be-priest?

The word that springs to my mind is ‘shonky’. I would question both his motives and his facts, as well as the origin of the idea. Not saying it is necessarily a bad idea, just watch out for snake oil.

morrie said:

roughbarked said:

morrie said:

Ross Cameron has an interesting track record. A bloke who runs Christian prayer meetings while having extra-marital affairs.

a would be-priest?

The word that springs to my mind is ‘shonky’. I would question both his motives and his facts, as well as the origin of the idea. Not saying it is necessarily a bad idea, just watch out for snake oil.

Well his is only one opinion. There may be others pop up before too long.

Keep the bridge, improve public transport. Fewer cars on the road.
Cheaper and smarter.

Bubblecar said:

The two most iconic Australian structures (in fact the only Australian structures widely known outside of Oz): the Sydney Harbour Bridge and the Sydney Opera House. The thinking seems to be: “Well we have two – count them, TWO – iconic structures that are well-known and much-loved, so we can afford to knock one of them down!”

Finite lifespan is a finite lifespan.

If you built a new bridge there it would become just as iconic as the old bridge. Whatever sort of bridge you build there, be it steel arch, cable stayed, suspension – it would become the new image of Sydney. The New Sydney Harbour Bridge.

party_pants said:

Bubblecar said:

The two most iconic Australian structures (in fact the only Australian structures widely known outside of Oz): the Sydney Harbour Bridge and the Sydney Opera House. The thinking seems to be: “Well we have two – count them, TWO – iconic structures that are well-known and much-loved, so we can afford to knock one of them down!”

Finite lifespan is a finite lifespan.

If you built a new bridge there it would become just as iconic as the old bridge. Whatever sort of bridge you build there, be it steel arch, cable stayed, suspension – it would become the new image of Sydney. The New Sydney Harbour Bridge.

Historical Bridges.. http://www.engineersaustralia.org.au/sites/default/files/Darlington_Point_Bridge_Description.pdf

A lift bridge was built in 1905, joining the communities on either side of the river. The structure was replaced in 1979 by a concrete bridge. Part of the old bridge was reconstructed for the Australian Bicentenary celebrations and can now be found at the entrance to the Darlington Point Riverside Caravan Park which is located on a bend along the Banks of the Murrumbidgee River.

Does anyone have credible annual maintenance costs for the bridge?
How do the figures compare to other bridges of similar span and usage?

“float that structure in”, “we erect it in the same way, with hydraulic lifts on pontoons”, “we then slide it across on permanent foundation bearings and then just click it into the original alignment”??

Is that even feasible with a structure that large?

What happens with the extra traffic once it gets to the city side?

What happens with the traffic that ends up on the north shore?

I agree the bridge has a finite life but pulling it down just to double the bridge capacity doesn’t seem logical.

I’m with Spiny. More public transport.

Or another tunnel…

Leave my bridge alone!

And what would the comparable maintenance costs be on the new bridge?

Will there be an extra toll to pay for it?

how much bigger would the current Sydney harbour bridge have to be to accommodate the extra traffic?

build the new Sydney harbour bridge to look similar but out of new materials, maybe from carbon fiber that can glow in the dark, change and dim colours

and this time, perhaps it should have a built in restaurant and coffee shops

What new materials could they build the new bridge out of?

CrazyNeutrino said:

What new materials could they build the new bridge out of?

Aluminium. Good strength to weight ratio according to Frank Castanza. Could call it the Festivus bridge.

stan101 said:

Does anyone have credible annual maintenance costs for the bridge?
How do the figures compare to other bridges of similar span and usage?

not at hand.
probably similar.

CrazyNeutrino said:

What new materials could they build the new bridge out of?

Titanium

stan101 said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

What new materials could they build the new bridge out of?

Aluminium. Good strength to weight ratio according to Frank Castanza. Could call it the Festivus bridge.

That could cause problems on the big reef.

CrazyNeutrino said:

What new materials could they build the new bridge out of?

Just standard steel and concrete, but not using rivets.

Nothing wrong with the old bridge.

… It’s huge..

..massive….

party_pants said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

What new materials could they build the new bridge out of?

Just standard steel and concrete, but not using rivets.

Seems to work elsewhere.

It’s got big nuts..

Ian said:

It’s got big nuts..

I wonder if they’ve still got the spanner that fits them.

party_pants said:

Ian said:

It’s got big nuts..

I wonder if they’ve still got the spanner that fits them.

I started a bridge climb from there in the middle of the night armed only with a hessian bag..

…Nearly fell in the water, in front of a train..
the cops came..
.
.

..and this prick wants to demolish it!

Ian said:

…Nearly fell in the water, in front of a train..
the cops came..
.
.

..and this prick wants to demolish it!

nutz. :)

roughbarked said:

nutz. :)

someone was

:)

the new bridge could have dedicated separate cycle, jogging and ped lanes,

built in tollway, invisible,

a synchronizing system that keeps all vehicles at a certain speed for smooth flow of traffic

better merging of cars using wifi

with perhaps lighted up lanes for controlling peak activity etc

what sort of materials could be used for a new surface?

road lanes with built in illuminated light that can change color?

maybe they could design the new bridge to also be a clock, that changes its color depending on the time of day

with sections of the bridge being in hours, minutes, and seconds, with other sections for the date, year, month & day

something like that, including tides, and moon phase

>>Keep the bridge, improve public transport. Fewer cars on the road.

Say….a monorail?

maybe look at building a fleet of nanobots that can turn the rust back into pure metal

or even some high tech bacteria that is designed to turn the rust back into pure metal
they spray the bacteria all over the bridge and then the bacteria does it thing

then use it on all bridges and ships

CrazyNeutrino said:

maybe they could design the new bridge to also be a clock, that changes its color depending on the time of day

with sections of the bridge being in hours, minutes, and seconds, with other sections for the date, year, month & day

something like that, including tides, and moon phase

That would be kinda cool..

Neophyte said:

>>Keep the bridge, improve public transport. Fewer cars on the road.

Say….a monorail?

sssh! they spent money fixing it the day before starting to demolish it.

CrazyNeutrino said:

maybe look at building a fleet of nanobots that can turn the rust back into pure metal

or even some high tech bacteria that is designed to turn the rust back into pure metal
they spray the bacteria all over the bridge and then the bacteria does it thing

then use it on all bridges and ships

Simply replace the rivets with bolts and keep painting maintaining,

roughbarked said:

CrazyNeutrino said:

maybe look at building a fleet of nanobots that can turn the rust back into pure metal

or even some high tech bacteria that is designed to turn the rust back into pure metal
they spray the bacteria all over the bridge and then the bacteria does it thing

then use it on all bridges and ships

Simply replace the rivets with bolts and keep painting maintaining,

Put the new transport on its own.. new route.

The Poms managed to replace London Bridge without too much backlash from the public…

The Awful Tower in Paris is built with rivets and that has lasted at least 42 years longer than SHB.

roughbarked said:

Simply replace the rivets with bolts and keep painting maintaining,

Not sure you can do that.

Or do what Melbourne did, put an extra lane on the westgate, now a choice of 5 lanes to not move in for 2 hours every morning.

What are we going to do for postcards?

Stealth said:

The Awful Tower in Paris is built with rivets and that has lasted at least 42 years longer than SHB.

That tower doesn’t get the same type of stress traffic

making metal/s that heal itself is being done around the world

>>The Awful Tower in Paris is built with rivets and that has lasted at least 42 years longer than SHB.

And yet it was only intended to last for 20 years.

Neophyte said:

>>Keep the bridge, improve public transport. Fewer cars on the road.

Say….a monorail?

I hear those things are awfully loud…

party_pants said:

roughbarked said:

Simply replace the rivets with bolts and keep painting maintaining,

Not sure you can do that.

Neither am I though I think it could.. but that would a job almost unimaginable to cost in this day and age.

Ian said:

What are we going to do for postcards?

Pictures of the new bridge?

Whatever you build in that location, any bridge that crosses that stretch of water in a single span will be a pretty impressive structure.

Build one that waves about like the Tacoma Narrows Bridge – that’ll sort out the sheep from the goats

That one collapsed

i think it would be nice if they painted it a different colour every few years.

Build a tunne….. Wait what?

Boris said:

i think it would be nice if they painted it a different colour every few years.

Well, they so have to start repainting as soon as they finish.

Neophyte said:

Build one that waves about like the Tacoma Narrows Bridge – that’ll sort out the sheep from the goats

Excellent traffic control measure.

You’d have to ask yourself “just how do i REALLY need to get accross there?”.

Arts said:

That one collapsed

Be a great tourist attraction if one could be built that stayed up.

party_pants said:

Arts said:

That one collapsed

Be a great tourist attraction if one could be built that stayed up.

Wonder what the toll would be….

Arts said:

party_pants said:

Arts said:

That one collapsed

Be a great tourist attraction if one could be built that stayed up.

Wonder what the toll would be….

Would depend on the day’s wind strength.

Don’t know if a windy day would have higher tolls (more thrills) or lower tolls (more risk of death).

Ask not for whom the bridge tolls.

Dropbear said:

Ask not for whom the bridge tolls.

the last person pays?

Wonder what the toll would be….

that would depend on how many were on the bridge when it collapsed.

Is infrastructure affordable anymore? Or is it like fighter planes, the prices increasing exponentially?

Skunkworks said:

Is infrastructure affordable anymore? Or is it like fighter planes, the prices increasing exponentially?

Is it affordable not to do it?

Dropbear said:

Skunkworks said:

Is infrastructure affordable anymore? Or is it like fighter planes, the prices increasing exponentially?

Is it affordable not to do it?

I guess it will be done if it needs to be, but I was wondering if there was some sort of similar price explosion in civil works?

Skunkworks said:

Dropbear said:

Skunkworks said:

Is infrastructure affordable anymore? Or is it like fighter planes, the prices increasing exponentially?

Is it affordable not to do it?

I guess it will be done if it needs to be, but I was wondering if there was some sort of similar price explosion in civil works?

oops, delete explosion, insert growth.

another idea

instead of getting rid of the bridge or getting the public purse to pay for this do this

build a huge bridge come building over the harbour

the idea being that the thing is funded by people willing to buy into the project so they can live on the harbour – literally

wookiemeister said:

you could bulldoze the whole of Sydney starting in the docks area

I’ve always thought that re-building Sydney wouldn’t be a bad idea.

We could start by moving entire city fifty kilometres to the east.

We could start by moving entire city fifty kilometres to the east.
—

I see, to take advantage of the cheaper land prices.

dv said:

We could start by moving entire city fifty kilometres to the east.
—

I see, to take advantage of the cheaper land prices.

.

Consider it a seachange.

ohhhhh under the seaaaaaaaaa

>> We could start by moving entire city fifty kilometres to the east.

I’ve said for a long time that there’s nothing wrong with Sydeny that a few strategically placed thermonuclear devices wouldn’t fix.

Ian said:

>> We could start by moving entire city fifty kilometres to the east.

I’ve said for a long time that there’s nothing wrong with Sydeny that a few strategically placed thermonuclear devices wouldn’t fix.

That, unfortunately would turn what was paradise before we came.. into a wasteland.

>>That, unfortunately would turn what was paradise before we came.. into a wasteland.

You obviously haven’t toured the western suburbs recently.

Ian said:

>>That, unfortunately would turn what was paradise before we came.. into a wasteland.

You obviously haven’t toured the western suburbs recently.

wasn’t saying that it hadn’t already been the case in general..

Skunkworks said:

Dropbear said:

Skunkworks said:

Is infrastructure affordable anymore? Or is it like fighter planes, the prices increasing exponentially?

Is it affordable not to do it?

I guess it will be done if it needs to be, but I was wondering if there was some sort of similar price explosion in civil works?

In a word, no. The cost of construction of infrastructure, relative to general prices, is lower than it has ever been.

As for the subject of the thread, if the cost of maintenance was as high as suggested, and the cost of a replacement replica (which is what he is suggesting) was as low as suggested, then the idea would be quite reasonable.

But as he is a politician I suspect he is just making stuff up to get some publicity.